We're revisiting a 2013 episode about John Harvey Kellogg. His last name is famous for breakfast cereal, but was a 19th-century doctor with some unique (and groundbreaking) beliefs about health and wellness.His Battle Creek Sanitarium was home to anything but treatment as usual. The first episode of Modern Ruhles is now available. You can listen to it here.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://news.iheart.com/podcast-advertisers
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This episode has brought you buy home adviser, finding the right professionals for whom projects can be tough and its sparks. A lot of questions like how do I find a pro hook
help, and will we do a good job and will I get a fair price? It could be very confusing and terrified
if you don't know much about the process and that's where home,
Aye Sir, can help from leaky fossil
two major remodels home adviser connects to the right pro for the job in seconds and even make sure to help you get a fair price. Read reviews czech prime
cost guides and book appointments go to home, adviser, dot com or download the free,
I'm adviser apt to start your next project,
bizarrely everybody. I hope your day is great. Our network
has another new show to announce it is modern rules was Stephanie rule. Seventy isn't
Current msnbc- and this show invites a small number of guests to join her in candid conversation, often about a contentious topic that the producer
don't necessarily agree on in keeping with that.
Today's classic goes back to John Harvey Kellogg, whose opinions and practices were contentious when he was living and continue to be so today,
whenever we share this episode on our social media today, there is often a lively discussion about everything from wellness to pseudoscience, to religion, to circumcision and everything in between
stay dear and at the end of the episode for a little peek at modern rules. Welcome
stuff, you missed in history class of production of I hurried use, how works
hello and welcome into the pond. Has I'm Tracy rules and I am wholly fry, so it
Before we begin the sum
John Herbie Kellogg's thought was about Lee sexual Health of adults. So if,
you are listening with young children, be aware there is going to be some talk about Saxon from sexual terminology in this episode, little bit of anatomy that you may or may not have covered. Yet I tell you a story: por favor, I used to be a massage therapists like Alan.
I'm a they had a licence and all that
and I was getting ready to start my first full time. Job at a spa- and this was the sky- was like the kind of place up in the mountains where you would go, and you get three Hell
Food meals a day and, in addition to
massages. There were day hikes and nutritional counselling, and in that sort of thing like it, was a very healthy.
Well Noise far here the kind of place where there was such a thing
this unhealthy eating that people would routinely ask the
The maintenance guy who thicket smuggle if he could smuggles them hamburgers for them so had been denied
For my first day at work there I was staying at this conduct that had cable, and I haven't had a tv at all for about four years. So of course, I turn it on.
And what was on was, coincidentally, the road to well bill which is based on a book by tc. Boil. Yes, have you ever seen this or or read the yes and yes, but has been quite some time
on both the AIDS, a fictional eyes comedy about John Hardy Kellogg and in the movie
everybody is at this spa to get better
and there's a lot of stuff going on, I'm just seems really cuckoo,
weird electrical therapies to a hyper, strict focus on never ever ever masturbating, it's absolutely fictional
but the battle Creek sanitarium was a real place.
Run by John Harvey Kellogg, who was a real guy and it had its share of weirdness, which is what we wanted.
go out today had almost one of those things really. Why did you fix your lies? That, as I know any weird, as it is a sort of like stone, Mountain Georgia, they really didn't need to make up all kinds of craziness about stone Mountain for thirty Rock, because it's got a phone crazy,
You are right there you up to also this is U thanks in part to elicit a request from palace. We are going to talk about John Harvey Kellogg and the sanitarium at Battle Creek today, so John heard, free
I was born in Tyrone Michigan on February, twenty six of eighteen. Fifty two and his parents were John Preston and Am Kellogg. He was one of sixteen one, six, sixteen children, which included five from his
their first marriage. They were all devout seventh day Adventists and they moved to battle. Creek Michigan
which was at that point, the home of the seventh day, Adventist Church, when John was young,
his father owner Broom Factory there and all of the children work than it as soon as they were of legal age to do so when
I got older. He worked as a printers devil, which is kind of a gopher, Slash apprentice, type role. At a seven day, Adventist Publishing House isn't,
as in medicine and health reform, probably started there because of the materials they were printing bell, why
who was co founder of the seventh day? Adventists had begun to write extensively about health and wellness, a core. Seventy Adventists belief is that people's bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, so they should be treated well and kept healthy through clean living and helpful behaviors and people should avoid quote unclean food
and tobacco and alcohol when he was sixteen. He worked for a little while, as a teacher, all there's some kind of respiratory trouble ended his teaching work and caused him to return to studying
John Father did not really seal on a reason to educate children. He believed that the second coming was imminent and that would have been wasted.
I'm so many of his siblings never finished high school. In spite of that, John,
got his MD from Bellevue Hospital Medical College in eighteen. Seventy five
scattered years between eighteen. Eighty,
in nineteen eleven. He also studied in Europe and continued his education in surgery and medicine there
His goal in all the study was really to be a good doctor and a good surgeon, and he was he was a successful doctor and a very respected surgeon and he continued to practice
hurry until he was in his seventies. He also founded Battle Crete College, which later
became part of Andrews University and he served as its first president. He was also an advocate of health outreach for the poor and needy. He believed that all Christian instead
she should work with the poor in their local area, and he also believed that seventy Adventists were in particular call to work as medical missionaries. He was part of the Adventist,
creation of a medical mission in Chicago the closest major city to battle creek. It's time Detroit was much smaller them and that was in eighteen. Ninety three
free and that medical mission became a model for other missions and cargo and elsewhere, the goal was to see about the physical and spiritual health of the city's poorest residence. On February, twenty
get a team. Seventy nine he married LSD eaten a male,
in a fifty room home in battle Creek. That sounds enormous: it does
the they really needed all that room, because together they fostered about forty children and legally adopted seven of them. They have
No biological children, because allegedly, as just seems to be
running theme, with every topic that I pick their marriage was chased and never consummated. You do have bet,
I could say, as I don't know, if it's bad luck adjust, it assists funny, because you pick things not knowing that always comes up in the research. I just keep picking people to talk about, and then it turns out there that person by coincidence has a chaste marriage. Yes,
chase marriage and practiced celibacy for their whole life
and although some of his children were black, John was actually a proponent of the eugenics movement and founded the race Betterment Foundation in nineteen eleven to pursue ideas of racial purity, which we think is a little startling, because you think about all his sort of seeming.
Good works and outreach right. Well, there were really a lot of people during those years he were active in the union S movement him that their activity sort of tarnish is all of the other good works that they did by having
in part of this movement that is at the time, was not looked at with quite the level of horror.
as it is today like today that whole idea really really I've setting. It was
That was not really the, but the thought at the time period and those late eighteen hundred early nineteen hundred years,
one of the race betterment foundations objectives at the time was to start a eugenic registry so that they can ensure Rachel purity. So yes, that's another it. It sounds so alien and unsettling right, but at the time it was a pretty
common right. There were a lot of people who, I think otherwise were ahead of their time in what they were thinking about and then also participated in the eugenics movement which become startling two people via em, so that that sort of that the basics, a few. This person was a big part of his life
was his philosophy on health, and you hear a lot about his very more extreme views. When you hear about John Harvey Kellogg, it becomes
really easy to write him off. Is this kind of weird quack since a lot of his brow?
this is where way, apart from mainstream thought at the time
are they definitely don't hold up to scientific scrutiny? Now, in some of them were kind of scientifically questionable, even at the time by an inn,
part of that. He was really always on the lookout for medical evidence that his theories were actually effective and he did seem to question his beliefs pretty
you. He wouldn't. He would advocate something and then when it turned out that
That was not a good idea and he had proof of that. He would turn away from it and ran advocate something else. It was kind of a quest for the newest and best knowledge, and sometimes it didn't pay mountain. Sometimes it did right.
There is also the context to consider in the world of medicine at the time passed a relation
Germ theory of disease were really only starting to gain a mainstream acceptance. Diseases still spread rapidly because of a lack of basic hygiene.
And a lot of quote medicines were patent medicines that had no real medical value,
cocaine and laudanum were being used medicinal early, so Kellogg's focus on
relative care and healthy living was really groundbreaking in a lot of ways.
Getting on the bosses. Good side is just you giving yourself positive affirmations. You never have to fake laugh at the bosses. Lame jokes, because your whole Larry's, an awkward chit chat with the boss would just be awkward. Chit chat with yourself, because you are a small business owner born to be your own boss and Amex can help
funding solutions for eligible business customers. So you can keep doing what you were made to do that power.
Backing of American Express dont do business without it terms, apply, learn more american, Express Dotcom, slash business.
As we said before, he was it
reigned and respected doctor and a lot
What he believed in road about meshes pretty well with common sense, health beliefs today or at least mainstream natural health ideas he advocated
healthy eating, exercise, vegetarianism and low calorie diets, those last to me,
sort of argue either way for, but in the field of holistic, healthier, pretty much staples at this point
and we have all kinds of documentation of these ideas for almost
over the years, Kellogg edited a magazine called good Health, it was a
the seventh day had publication called health reformer, and in this he would publishes philosophies.
he also room many many books on health and healthy living and much of this material, is actually improve,
domain now, so you can find a lot of his books online for free. He would
really ahead of the curve on some of the health ideas that we take for granted. Today he was an
believer that the american diet included more protein than people really needed, and that people should bathe
more often than once a week. He also
when people too, where less restrictive, more breathable clothing than they generally did in the nineteenth century. He was
Also an anti smoking advocate long before mainstream culture was ever thinking of. Smoking is hazardous any correctly
concluded that smoking is bad for the heart from
Bacco ISM or how tobacco kills. He says tobacco in
various forms is one of the most mischievous of all drugs. There is perhaps no
their drug, which ensures the body in so many ways and so universally, as does tobacco. Some drugs offer a small degree of common
patient for the evil effects which they produce, but tobacco has
a single redeeming feature and gives nothing in return for the one point: five billion dollars, which it costs them
annually. Besides the one
thousand lives with which it probably destroys. So that's pretty startlingly modern.
The time when he was writing it air, he also route.
The dangers of sitting, which is something that really band increasingly present in medical literature. In the past few years from the sun
life in a nutshell, one
not that generate physically because his occupation is sedentary, always sit, erect with chest held high and the small. The back supported, sit as little as past,
standing in lying are more natural and helpful positions than sitting one may exercise, while sitting at work by deep breathing and by stiffening the muscles of first one limb a few seconds, then
other all the muscles in the body may be exercised this way again still going on today. Like this one, I stand up desk,
movements. Handing thus thing is just yeah. I hear more and more people talking about their standing desks and I think it's only been may be. The last
five year that suddenly air seeing more and more research about how? How terrible, not just the fact that people are not exercising but that the secondary time their spending sitting there during during the workday Kellogg, also had a huge vote.
On food and he developed or refined a number of health foods, including peanut butter, soy, milk substitutes for coffee and tea and breakfast cereals,
although his brother really did a lot of the leg work on that one
also believed and a concept called biologic living
combined a near vague and diet, along with other choices in a person's lifestyle, also for
the simple life in a nutshell: he wrote about this as live out of doors
Do your work under the trees instead of behind doors and opaque walls, dig in the garden explore.
Woods and hills follow the Brooks. Why,
the squirrels and their gambles and learn the songs of the birds, picks up a sleeping portrait, balcony and so taken
putting all night long and every night and don't you.
Inside when the frost comes outdoor sleeping is the best life preserver ever known, simple
in a nutshell, is a good way to get an overall sense of his health philosophies and
goes on to outline all kinds of dietary and lifestyle recommendations. It covers food exercise, personal hygiene, sleep, clothing
mental hygiene. In some additional suggestions they start off pretty common sense.
although maybe not a hundred per cent science based like eating only natural
goods of waiting, meets eating
only moderation, avoiding cow's milk.
Animal fats emphasizes getting the fat your body
from olives and nuts. Instead, he also goes on
I recommend that people avoid quote poison containing foods which our coffee T chocolate and cocoa
Andy recommends that people get completely rid of all condiments and spicy foods at this is where, in that particular synopsis of sort of what is health believes where he starts to lose me at this point.
It's a year
ring. I made a cup of coffee and a travel cup, so I could take it in the shower with me this morning. Yes, I'm I'm definitely gonna have a hard time embracing this night, even though I recognise that this probably it would be extremely helpful, but it would also involve, for me at least a loss of some
worthy of life right. His mental hygiene ideas included not worrying or becoming self centered, practicing self control taking a vacation when you start dreaming about work and avoiding patent medicines as well as of waiting, alcohol, tobacco and drugs, she's, all pretty common sense,
kind of advice tonight to go by so you know so far. We ve talked about a lot of stuff. It's pretty reasonable, if maybe a little more restrictive and bland than we would like a
also for awhile was pushing the idea that people should Fletcher eyes their food, which is just a chew it until it became sort of a goofy mask that would go down your throat on its own. Is I
It came from Horace what are known as the great master and that's worthy to each by thirty two times rule comes from so,
This is an example of where, when evidence started, to suggest that maybe that was not the best idea. John Herbie Kellogg changed his point of
he moved away of recommending that people Fletcher eyes their food once he determined that that much chewing was basically pulverizing the foods fibre into uselessness. So you are denying yourself the benefits of fibres foods, yep from
his New York Times a bit. You airy, there's a quote: an authority on water therapy. He was the discoverer of the therapeutic value of the electric light, an inventor of the electric light bath. He was also the discoverer of the signing soil current, so
was the point that the world of John Harvey Kellogg's health believes that it starts to kind of nuts
into the UK, not sure. What's going on there. This is clearly
thing that people would have known what it was about, because it was in his obituary how when it was printed- but at this point there
are enough out of the mainstream thought, but I had to go look up what they were the electrical
math was a device that you would sit in enclosed everything, but your head
inside of it were lots and lots of White Bob's in clusters that were decker. There were directed at different parts of your.
body he built one in eighteen, ninety one and used it by his own count. So you know that this number is inflated in fifty thousand cases.
He wrote in the book light there a pudica about his precursors, using light to basically cure everything, but he wrote about mostly using it in short treatments to draw blood into the skin, saying that doing so would treat kidney disease diabetes, rheumatic diseases
nemea and other diseases. He also address
did the use of the light bath as a preventive measure and people who had sedentary lifestyles, calling it quote the best substitute for muscular activity and
the same. You subtle current with a high frequency oscillating waiting electrical current that would make muscles contract without causing pain. Any use this to make a device meant to exercise the muscles without having to actually move just the thing that people are still trying to do today.
Right. Both of these things have analogues that our an actual medical use today, like light therapy, foresee the seasonal, effective disorder and electrical stimulation. That's used
some physical therapies
but neither of them today or in sort of the widespread cure. All everyone should do this fashion of of what Kellogg was advocating
and additionally, a lot of his health practices were focused on the bowel. There were lots of
of animals and caloric irritations. In his approach to health and wellness, yet that, although the stuff with the enemies in the coal in Ireland
it's that comes up over and over and as one of the things that starts to Mark John Harvey Kellogg is kind of. Maybe a little bit
off base in terms of what he advocated marriage, still people that advocate for those yes, but it's not like a widespread accepted medical approach to treating condition right the way that Kellogg was advocating for yet he was Bravo
He was pretty much giving everyone who came to the sanitarium animas all time as a course of general health in wellness right
but there sometimes, when you will see in in like some kind of quack doctor in a movie, he was saying: oh, you did indeed enema that
the global actor kill high. It is absolutely a call back to him. He was
also into electrical Electra therapy and vibrational therapy and again both of these do have some uses today, but he was pretty much advocating them in broad widespread use on every one often, and he had some very restrictive views on sex
It was, in his mind, barely acceptable, even within marriage and then only very infrequently. It was certainly unacceptable
outside of marriage, and he was there
very, very focused on people not masturbating ever he blamed masturbation for everything from poor posture to cancer,
He was in favour of circumcision without anesthetic for boys and the application of carbonic acid to the clearest for girls as an anti masturbation tool,
yeah yeah yeah eggs, is exactly what I was thinking. I just I'm sure listeners like me are feeling tenth right at the moment. Right
when you need face time with your boss? All you do is look in the mirror. The nest,
Boston. You take yourself out to lunch and you never say things like synchronized synergies because well it sounds ridiculous. Neuro small,
business owner, born to be your own boss and annex can help with payment.
Flexibility. So you can keep doing what you were made to do that power
Backing of American Express dont do business without it terms, apply, learn more american, Express Dotcom, slash business,
so John Hornby Kellogg put all of these beliefs into active practice at the battle. Creek sanitarium, also known as the sand, where he became the chief
position in eighteen, seventy six. When he was only twenty four, he also opened a SEC.
sanitarium in Miami Springs Florida in nineteen, thirty one the sand had been agreed
only open in eighteen, sixty six as the western Health Reform Institute, which was a health facilities based on seventh day Adventists beliefs and practices, the idea was to treat illnesses naturally into encourage people into preventative wellness practices.
Heart, was in the right place for surely especially considering the state of medicine at the time, and it was
Morally, all that successful before dawn got there. There wasn't unofficial medical staff and housed only about twenty patients. When John came on board, so one of the
things that he did was to hire a staff of doctors and nurses he set about trying to
tractor clientele and his target market was primarily made up of people who had things we might think of today. A stress related illnesses, so harried businessmen experiencing things like exhaustion
on again to a lot of what went on at the San were common sense. Wellness practices like eating healthy if extremely bland food exe,
sizing in abstaining from alcohol and tobacco, and a lot of the things that you'd also think of when you hear the word spa like massages than nice relaxing bags, but it
so had all kinds of the electrical and vibrational treatments that, like we talked about earlier lots
out of electric light therapies and animals and all the other sorts of things that are sort of regarded as quackery today, and it ended up becoming a retreat for the rich and some really famous people actually visited. This
to take the cure, including Johnny, Rockefeller, Amelia, Erhard, Sojourner, truth and Mary Todd Lincoln, a fired,
part of the sanitarium in one thousand nine hundred and two including all of the main building, but it was eventually rebuilt in one thousand. Nine hundred and three John's relationship with the church became strained after he
was to book that didn't entirely mesh with the Adventists doctrine he ultimately split from the church and he set up the same
Terrorism is an independent entity with its own board, making in a non denominational institution, the San reached, its height
popularity in nineteen o six that year, it received seven thousand guests and employed eighteen hundred staff.
continue to operate until the great depression when financial circumstances force John to sell it. After sixty seven years and today's preponderance of breakfast, cereals is thanks in part to the sand,
where the biologic diet was so boring and monotonous. That John was constantly looking for alternatives that fit the philosophical criteria, but also offered variety, while John
As the staff position at the San his brother will Keith Kellogg, also known as W K, Kellogg managed a sanitarium handling the books
flies the general maintenance all of that kind of stuff. So, while John
seeing to the medical and of Things Debbie UK was handling pretty much all
of the day to day running of the play. The administration yes and their relationship
wasn't always on the best of terms. John could be taskmaster
and W Keyword really long hours for very little pay, allegedly seven days,
with no vacations for seven years, which is interesting because it seems to come
verdicts, his brother Johns writings, which say to observe the Sabbath without working at all, and he advocates for taking a vacation when you started
in about work seasonably. Yes, he
presumably of WMD had been working seven days a week for his taskmaster brother for seven years, navigation he's probably dreaming about work, often probably horrible, nightmares and stress so yet that Johns seem to be like you all should do this,
unless you or me, monsieur or my brother, what, if the two of us working diligently to make sure the rest of you think?
Yes, it's a little unclear exactly which of the Kellogg Brothers really invented wheat flakes which were a wheat based version of what we think of as cornflakes today. That happened
eighteen, ninety four and, as is the case in quite a number of invention,
John claim. The idea for how to make these wheat flakes came to him in a dream. We ve had that come up in several pie ass before, but according to other sources,
John, had given Debbie UK this easy to digest, but very disgusting to eat wheat paste and told him to try to make something good out of it
UK left a batch of it out overnight, where it started to dry out and when he came in the morning he rolled what was left through rollers and then baked it, and it was actually pretty good and they named it grandma's. Yes, this one, the first ever breakfast cereal
its per day, it's predated by granular, which was good
by James Caleb Jackson, that was made from
M flower, and it was not really delicious, so it did not take off once it was introduced. John,
also made a serial made of corn meal and oatmeal biscuits, which were then ground named granola and they actually got sued and they had to rename it granola guess: prom
He was not smartest idea to make thing. That was like your competitors thing in the name of the same thing, then you might get sued
It was also predated by shredded wheat, which was invented by Henry De Perky of Colorado in eighteen. Ninety, three, he had prom.
To sell John a shredding machine which he was going to use to make his own shredded wheat, but he never delivered, which is why
the things that led to this experimentation of making cereals from other foods and willing John started sanitized food company in eighteen. Ninety seven to sell their cereal
In their first year they sold more than one hundred thousand pounds of granite house, their factory
as it was called, was actually a barn on the grounds of the San they brought out cornflakes in eighteen. Ninety eight and the profit margin was huge and his people figure this out. Suddenly there were a lot of competitors. One was see W post, who founded what became the post cereal company, who was a former sanitary
impatience and post distributed a pamphlet called the road to well Ville with his cereals. The novel and later movie got their name from that pamphlet posts. Earliest products were postal, which was a coffee substitute made from cereal. To give me a little bit of a chance grants to go by the try that EU an grape nuts great
that still arrived today. John was really reluctant to promote the sale of these cereals. He was of refrain that it was going to somehow reflects badly on the sand, so his brother did it all on his own, putting together a marketing campaign that included everything from door to door tastes tests to big window displays in
in eighteen. Ninety, while John was abroad, will actually went ahead and built a factory to replace the barn wits. John made him pay
fifty thousand dollars for after he returned we'll all
took advantage of one of Johns trips abroad to add sugar to cornflakes, which of course, deepened the divide between them. Yes, John,
was not in favour of adding sugar to anything they do
kind of men things a little bit. They established the battle, Creek toasted Cornflakes company in nineteen o six will.
the third of it and John on the other, two thirds the
employees were mostly Paden stock because John was not a general a generous person when it came to giving other people money so
once again employing a sort of quick. While he's not looking strategy will
quietly by up the employees stock that they were being paid in while John was away. So he eventually through doing this game to controlling, share in the company and was able to speak to basically kick his brother out of it as great a sibling
nation. Shipyard aid seems to have the most loving and supportive feeling between them ya. The catalogue cereal story goes on from the air, but long story short. The caliph company became a juggernaut. It was doing good business by the twenties. So by the time the great depression took hold.
People were thinking of cereals is daily staples and while the idea of a health spa had become a completely frivolous expense, the killer company thus became this huge institution of provisions, but John, unfortunately, mostly became considered
a joke. Yet his wife Ella died in nineteen twenty John Hume
I've had wanted to live to be a hundred, but he died on December, Fourteenth nineteen forty three in battle creek at the age of ninety one. This cause.
That was an ammonia. Thank you. So much for joining us on this Saturday, if you have heard an email address or a facebook url or something similar over the course of today's episode, since it is from the archive that might be out of date. Now you can email us at history, podcast at how stuff works, dot, com,
find us all over social media at missed in history, and you can subscribe to our shadow on Apple pod, CAS Google Podcast, the eye heart radio app and wherever else he listened, the pod gas,
stop him than history glass. The production of migrant radios. Housetop works for more pod hats,
radio visit, thy heart, radio amplified guests or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. We are living in complicated,
it feels that there is a whole new set of rules, but nobody knows where the actual lines or drop and for cable news, social media and yes, podcast killing the void with words. It seems like there is less of an actual conversation, I'm seventy rule, MSNBC Anchor and NBC News, correspondent and I'll. Tell you about my new podcast modern and this season of modern rules. I'm gonna be spending time unpacking. The Harry is of today's topic from privilege and political correctness. To me, too masculinity a moral leadership. I've had some of the smartest most thoughtful people. I know joined meat in real candid conversations. People like my friend Cuesta, who joins me to discuss political correctness, masculinity hours to look the same way that lead lives matter, has a secret ellipses that the citizens are missing. The war too.
realized that harmony, clear hashtag to speak so well, an actress author activists amber tumbling to talk about the me to movement me, I'm not gonna, sit and spend time trying to think about how to help men rehabilitate themselves. They need to do that. Work. Digital activists were shot Robinson, who brings interesting perspective,
social media and moral leaders had the white woman not expose did we would have never actually even had the story were. Howard shalt have had to go on air and talk about
born to do the right thing and just to show you what I mean when I say we're: gonna get real, I'm bringing on my mom Louise rule about all things feminist. They seem to think they have to push for she put and you don't have to push it. I like people to open the doors. I like people to say I look nice, that's not an insult. The next week's they're gonna get into
things that are not always after, but they are always compel it to join me. The season for modern, listen. Instead.
To my new podcast modern rules on out implied catch. The eye aren't radio at or ever you get back
My name is Brandon Phibbs. I want you to do away with me. Aboard APOLLO. Eleven will be covering the mission from start to finish day by day hour by hour, minute by minute, suffused with original music and fully immersive sound effects. This podcast is going to be the next best thing to actually being aboard Appall eleven. This is nine days in July
episodes arrive every Thursday through February. Sixth, listen to nine days in July, on the Iheart Radio APP on Apple pie casts or wherever get your ass.