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WASP of WWII with Dr. Katherine Sharp Landdeck, Part 2

2016-03-23 | 🔗

The duties of the women of the WASP evolved over time, and some of them were quite dangerous. And once the program ended, there were -- and still are -- controversies over whether the women involved should be recognized as military veterans.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome one, welcome all come you do yours and marchers to the beat of any drum at Starbucks. We, that. Wellness has a lot more to do with finding your unique journey. Then, following the latest trends, that's why we have something for free taste, every craving every mood and every you our new cocoanut milk latte, an almond milk, honey flat white, because to journeys are the same, and what that right is It's yours commissioner, you must in history, has stuck on weld him. I'm crazy, I'm Holly fry we're back today with Doktor Catherine, the sharp land back of Texas Women's university, who has been studying the women. Therefore service pilots loss of worldwide,
for the last twenty years. These were women who flew military aircraft all over the United States during Robber to doing everything ferrying aircraft and people from one place to another. Two towing targets to be used for live ammunition practice this programme, was both an experiment to see what women could handle an effort to free up male pilots for the war. Kate, really graciously agreed to sit down and talk to me about the loss of their history, their work and their legacy, and she had such marvelous things to say that we are hearing the interview in two parts. Today is the second part and this is gonna start by talking about what the duties of the women that were part of the WASP programme work during the war and how they evolved, and it makes it You know are which of them were more dangerous than others. Just this for answer that key gives Tracy is packed information on the wasp and the aircraft. They flee in what it really took to fly them
So a lot of the first few days that were assigned to the wild boar, basically pretty basic things like that. What we need to move the aircraft from where they were built to where they need to go or we need to move the chaplain from this base. this base that you Sunday service like this, basically moving people and equipment from one place to another, so that the male pilots could be freed up. More intense combat duties, but over the time that the programme was going on, women started doing things like towing. Targets to be shot at with live ammunition or part of it.
who would later governments. You pilot that in all a gay actually recruited to want to demonstrate the be twenty nine bomber which was prone to catching on fire if it was not if it didn't take off properly and and so the men were kind of scared to fly it and so positive. Its record of these two was to demonstrate it for the men sort of successful back to what you said previously about the airplane, so easy Women can fly it so to me at the start, Linley short amount of time between we are basically going to use women to move people and stuff around two we're going to Muse women's literally toe targets to be shot at How did that evolution actually take place to go from being really really? they have women buying at all and doing extremely basic safety being shot at night. this is good and up, I think, there's a couple of things here. First is important to recognise that work out, burying the planes with.
actually in some way more dangerous than the work of telling the hardest main shut up. It's hard to think of those terms raid, the fiery with my family life and always south worth, but the couple thanks, though, first though the fairy of the women were brought in because we needed very pilots, that was, that was the part of the army are pushed. The boat was most desperate and needed powers most because we are building hundreds of thousands of aeroplanes. Three, a factory in California, factories in Detroit factories in Alma high and an end to all over the country were building is fine and they have to get to training basis all across the country for pilots to learn to fly and as the bigger picture, The bombers and the pursuit of that has befallen the different codes right away. The lot of the pursuit were built in long beach. California,
we are fighting a war Europe, it also, they had before all the way across the country, and I think it's important to think big a ban. Would yourself into the reality of navigation in the nineteen? Forty they don't have. Gps is on board I have very limited navigation and they have to pursue point especially or single pilot pines. Are you in this point alone and your flying this plain over mountains and across the country? with very limited navigation for much of it, either your pants flying getting from point a to point b, finding the proper airfields aware that get your is that only last long and in its very independent work, it's very Europe here is the appointing go. Many of these aeroplanes, the fairy pilot men and women-
remember their men doing its job to but he's very pilots, they would be the first one. The finer points they were, it would literally wall off the end of the assembly line and the pilot would be handed. The key is, basically all here you go so that their testifying is brand new airplanes and hoping roses perimeter had really remitted it right. This is important flying that had to be done him and it's dangerous, and it takes a lot of Helen thinking and skills. But then you are quite right that the job of the women s expense, because the air Army are forces wanted to see what Women? Could you ok where women are good at fairy pilots and again they have started with a white trainer airplanes, little piper curbs and things like that-
and then were put into the he fifty one than peace. Thirty, eight of these really high horse power, the most sophisticated people today very quickly because they prove themselves, but the army are forces. Tat, woman. He went on women. Could do in tackling happened with a big show that one of the big job that needed to be done was here. betrayed men, the fire weapons that moving points right, whether it's ground gunners or a gunners on bombers. Right, if you're on, a key. You ve got a shoot at the enemy, pointed out the site of the sight of you, be seventy learn how to do that. You can't take a nineteen year old boy and expect him to figure that out on the job, so you take women and have them.
why they're playing along a route- and you have the others on the ground firing at the banner and end up with a way to think of the target, is, if you ve ever been to the beach and you need. A plain flying down. The beach was the banner behind it or do a sporting events or something, and they got their advertisements both for somehow we, both those people whatever it is, that kind of thing and a big party were much longer in any way they shot would like emulation, because they ve got to figure out how to www the guns. They would often have the ammunition color coded, so they could figure which, which Gunnar was shooting, which would force
but this was very mundane fine. It was dangerous because you're being shot out, I'm very dangerous because your flying slowly often time, but it was very boring fire. It was. It was basically flying up and down them up turning round and flying back down and listening other radio and doing the same thing every day in and you have to be precise and you have to do. It would have to be done. But it's not exotic fine, and so the air or mere forces were kind of excited to have women do this job because the man hated it because it was so boring and the women were habit to be more patient were happy to before. I get anything So that was an evolution to expand the bat and then yeah. I like that, expands the all these different job has fine place after they ve been.
You worked on had a little pass y know personnel from place to place doing all these different job, and basically this is just an expansion of the women to see what they could do and they took it. We actually have a word with american jet below. Could she do that? All up she can we had women flying remote control, aircraft. It'll be such with some of the first round, and they were all tat he could find some of those were. They began their remote aircraft, with somebody behind them in another place. Why that plane, but they didn't want the plane crash of the person, must stop
women in the drone airplanes, because it could take over the controls in doing all these different jobs and really are tackling happen held a phrase for it that I just I just love she. She said the wife, you all the aerial, dishwashing, all aerial, dishwashing job, better, it's the jobs that nobody wants, but everybody it asked whether I protested nobody wants to do, but that have to be done. Just like you and the Bishop at home and in old question. She domesticate the work that they're doing. I hold a just war, a shame not threatening anybody. Fine, these fancy military claims that it is doing the dishwashing. The aerial dishwashing tab it. Oh, it is anything the terms that she used to justify the work. The women were there
but again you know. After the war, we have all these really expensive reports of the jobs that the women did the success that they had. I did well in all. The guys are asked to do. the only one that was questionable with flying glider. Very they have these big waiters used, and what about you and the aircraft would toes glider and the women were quite strong enough for that, but that's the only job that they they said well at not having do that. But but everything else is our job be done. So you haven't Levin hundred to women who are out there and who are doing jobs that if they haven't been doing them, eleven hundred and two men would have had to do them because they were job that had to be done, and I think
part of this is it starts with, we don't know where the war is going to go where you what's gonna happen, swore white job we're gonna have to do. We do when deserve a pool of potential pilots here and then, as the war progressive, they wanted to have a number of these experiments. Basically, they were coming and I was like law. If we have another war like it was a deal, I saw it really they had women doing his job, because these jobs were all there to be done and they kept trying to four things that were giving the women they were. They were do good work. They were flying in the accident rate for comparable with men.
The same job. There you don't delivery rates on the sharing of the aircraft was in some cases better. Zero on some basin serves commanders, preferred the women because they wanted to fly thank you it's interesting how their war expanded and, as you know, we have given my that they were considered an experiment with the ethnic pyramid. The tribesmen like this man. There was so much information and the answer to that guy number one I had no idea that varying a new plain from the factory to an airfield could in some ways be a lot more dangerous than towing targets for life in practice. That still seems completely counter intuitive. To me even having been explained, I understand now rational. Why is so much more
but in my head still way more dangerous to be shot at than just apply a plain. Never, too I had no idea until talking to Kate about this. That part of the mindset behind this whole programme was like what, if there's another war, what all or we're gonna need. Women's already know how to do, and what are we gonna need to have demonstrated that that women can handle. That, for me, was the bleak and fascinating coming up prices interview with Kate send it some more specific cases of when they were part of this programme, but before we do that we're gonna pause and of a word from one of our sponsors this episode of stuff you missed in history glass, is brought to you by Norton three sixty with life luck with your shot. Online. With your smartphone, its super feels like ear personal information. just right there in your hand, but that's not always the case, because, as soon as you hit submit your person,
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We are going to talk about one was in particular. He was one of the few He's american women who served with the women are more service pilot. I parted researching the was like. I know that the United States, Theory was an integrated until nineteen forty eight, which was after the wasps disbanded, so I assumed that only white women were in the last But then I found a photo of Hazel Yang Lee who, with the chinese american woman from Oregon, who was actually the last of the was to be killed in the line of duty, so its clear that number one. It was not exclusively white women, but never to it Is this a story that do you know a lot about Hazel young lady know? What can you share with us about her?
You are quite right that the worse for wear white they were. There were two exceptions: he's. I only. Then there was another chinese american woman who is Maggie G. And she was out of California issued in one of the major classes It was with the only to non white women, as a group We know that several african american women who work all five it apply to the programme, and they were turned down because they. They were worried about you segregating the group and I long long conversation that have been better when you're thinking about China's American Hazel eyes, he was very highly qualified. She had a pilot's license since and thirty five,
She had gone to China when Japan attacked attack, dynamic, Nike authorities to try to fight for the chinese Airforce him. They turned it down because she is a woman she actually but by the chinese Airlines, with one of the very few chinese women pilot And ass she came back and when the work programme began, I was one of the earliest classes and varied pursuit aircraft. So. It's important, remember the United States, with allies with China and so having chinese american women in the programme was good for appear to say to some extent, and especially to the incredibly offered was with all the time. So I think I was a big part of it and, of course she is. She killed a November eighteen, forty four by tragically
That's one of the things you know she's in a pursuit aircraft and another pursuit is coming and they both landing. The control tower has some confusion and one of the plains radios was working through the other pursue plain landed on top of people and shoes. Shoes, But but there were there, chinese women there's a story, was hazel that in one of her pursue trip the plane it had failed and she had to stop at farmers field page. You found a place. The lamp remains unclear and land. the farmers field and the farmer when he saw her kid, after her with a pitchfork, because he thought the jet here were landing at his bill and see it. I had to stay at her ground as she's waiting at the round the plane, avoiding him. She said
No, I'm an American finally ordered him to put this worked out and he did a bit better. There was a story that she loved to tell her. She had a great sense of humour the stories go about love, love, telling a story about the man who such use: Japanese, the last training class or the landscape Waited on December seventh of nineteen forty four and then the programme itself was disbanded on December the twenty year, which was, I think waiting for a lot of the women who had been involved. They were basically all told to go home and a lot of cases told to go home basically at their own expense. did any of that last loss class get to actually serve and a couple of weeks between when they graduated and when the programme was disbanded, the actual. We call that the land, the last black, because then they went training, knowing they were going to be the standard and ass? I was
in October of maybe forty four, that they would be disbanded, but those who are already in training could finish so the tradition work when I class graduated to be given some time off to go home, urges rest before they started their active duty in this class. Didn't they just went straight from graduation bases across the country. They had almost three weeks of service. It's not going to be the same end, as somebody who is the third class. I am the women of the one last class and very humble about though what they did compared to their sisters were gone before them. I want to take on another point that you when, when they were disbanded on December,
One of the women are all across the country on these different bases, hundreds of different bases and their armed forces have or another the general at the time said you can t take a military plane. Nearby right, you can catch arrive basically on a military plan. If, before going near your home more especially got a ride home with her fiance raising male pilot on the base, and he flew her. Way home and met the family otherwise, no one wants, should he rattled. She was out in the west and was assigned to ride along with a man and they start to Moscow. With you and all of a sudden, the man said the planes in work, and you have to find a way home and Romania from there
as this long story of those points that she had in her pocket and she had another girl, I'm tired, you get home and calling your mother thinks and his money, but then catching arrive and missing the money. Is there This divine arduous trip home though this was. This is one of the biggest problems with the wars programme, because there are technical the volume, but there are living in the army world, they each had a different experience on some basis. The commanders was thrilled to have them and treated them like all and on others. They didn't want to have anything to do with the women were happy to see them go first. This very very different experiences. For always,
everything from when they were killed. It are some of the thirty eight was killed and some of those women in their bodies were escorted home and they were given us half a funeral others. The fellow was had to pass through the had to help and the body home just depended on the commander at that Particular So it was really really different. Experiences paid her talk about what happened after women were killed in action as well as what happened after the programme was disbanded? We didn't really touched. we're station on. Why the last we're disbanded, they're kind of an important part in story so Holly and I are gonna, hit the highlights
Since its inception, the WASP programme had operated under the belief that the was put event. you'd be militarized. A lot of the women's training was pattern of military training in the women who went through it sought that eventually they'd have Harry Status, along with the benefits and veterans status, they would come along with that. Instead, when her of representatives bill for two one. Nine was introduced on February, seventeenth, nineteen, forty four to do exactly that. This subject became extremely contentious. By the time of the war had really turn male pilots, who previously had just been sprightly needed in Europe work anymore. Airforce training programmes had been shudder, and training programmes were. Men had been cut way back when it came to the AIR Force cadets Suddenly, it didn't seem like women were relieving men for other war time work in terms of the last programme. It seemed like women were replacing men.
The idea of women freeing up men to do more dangerous work was not a threatening one, but the idea that women were taking men's jobs. Absolutely was the meat and public opinion shifted against the wasp as well. On June, twenty first nineteen forty four house bill. Forty two nineteen was defeated. Instead, the announcement that came on August fifth, nineteen, forty four- was that the training class that was currently in session would be the last one for the wasp that class graduated on December. Seventh, program and bid on December twentieth. Now we are going to take other quick break for a sponsor word before we get into what happened. After the WASP programme was disbanded
this episode is brought to you by the all new twenty twenty Forward explorer Tracy. I know that you have been thinking about an interesting thing lily, which is why your pic would be for the greatest exploration vehicle of all time yeah. Gotta go with the research vessel petrol that was owned by the link. Paul element found so many shipwrecks which our listeners love that we started to make jokes about it like we were like, and this is a ship. That wasn't found by that Beth both well be all dear, do any twenty four explorer is the greatest exploration vehicle of all time. There are a lot of places that have been explored by other vehicles, but this vehicle, the forty four, is going to take you to places that you may not think of as explorations, but really can be for it. Well, maybe you can navigate your life and you have to get around town, which can be a whole big problem, especially You live in a city like Atlanta were traffic density, congested sometimes you just want to go on a great vacation in writing in a perfect vehicle, makes it ideal ride or
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was worded as though this was the first time ever in history that a woman had flown. U S military aircraft, what that led the was to return to the public I after having been so thoroughly erased from it as a great question and they I dont know if they were you raised so much as they are just forgotten. the war ends, and they just don't don't talk about their their experiences in all these combat pilots are coming home and and they actually flew combat and someone when they started to tell their stories of Why were dismissed as oh yeah right people just didn't believe so didn't talk about it and an entire generation, tried to move on past the war skip or to the night. You six days and these women are starting to get retirement. Those who continue to serve in the military which which some of them did they they joined the reserve,
I lay there facing retirement or from the civil service and their points. From their time in the was aren't counting towards their retirement, though it is that you get that practical reason, those hey we. We need our time and was to have been recognised, though it can help us with the but then you ve got and even more importantly, these women hitting there late bodies and their fifties and their real I think that they ve been forgotten and not only have they even but those thirty eight was guide have been forgotten and they they just are here. That point is life where the other kids are grown and their starting to reflect on their own experiences, and then yes,
No, it's hurried coming out, saying: oh look at all these women for the first time a listing wait a minute. We do tat and it was important and- and so is its timing as much as anything else, but they re just didn't want those thirty eight was a wise and nobody remember them asked about was William, President Jimmy Carter did finally find a law that gave the waft veteran status in eighteen. Seventy seven and I felt like consistently described as being over strong objections. What were the objections in place there? While there is a battle for Agnes, eliminating disparities, the was controversial and end. Some people say that Jimmy Carter opposed it sound hard evidence of that. So I'd like you to speak to that, but their workers.
That opposed the women gaining veterans status, who are That would mean the word that term. If these women who had served the civilians were made by turns and and they had been militaries, for they shouldn't do better than everything by bad and people were worried about how expensive it was gonna, be. If you recognise the women is Bactrim, so they were given veteran status but in a limited way, you don't the g, I bill was gone by them and they were just given recognition for purposes of Tibetans. Administration wouldn't be too expensive to take care of them. So how are you
join us podcast in twenty thirteen, and for the first, two years after we did, we got constant requests from people to talk about the soviet night bombing with regiment that became known as the night, which is like it was the most requested thing. we ve ever had and once we actually did that episode, nothing else has become merely as a heavily requested the wife bunny. and we ve only got a few requests. The talk about, and most of them have been in response to recent news about Arlington National Cemetery. Do you have any thoughts on why the night witches have become a much more famous in the United States. Then the wasps- you actually have some pretty similar stories. Aside from the fact that the wasps we're not flying in combat but I think the soviet women are pretty amazing. Zero day they did fly combat, they did say then die. They did shoot down pleased that I think our modern times. Have women?
military, aviators serving and combat it. So maybe connection between. that women who were in combat ties directly to those soviet women who did it so long ago and under such horrible condition but very humble they. They love these. The soul women. There they ve had meetings. There was a group whilst went to Russia and then Ninety nine, and just admire them so much for the things that they dared and again there was a very humble about their actions compared to that of the soviet women in a white people, wouldn't ask the more information about the work I don't know, but you know I think I think people keep forgetting them you know, and they didn't find combat
So I don't. I don't know why I can't speculate on my people, wouldn't wouldn't ask about them, but better in a way we ve got level out of her birthday. We had two rows: bread floated twenty four kid. I get rid of millions of people, Aladdin at the congressional medal, and twenty can got a lot great press coverage for mad, so maybe maybe people I learned they have a complicated story. I think it's been told quite simply quite quite beauty. Leave it where it really is a little more complicated them, and it seems that Mr Denham, I don't know
as I alluded to earlier, most of the request that we ve gotten recently have followed headlines about. The was whether people who passed away and the servant a wasp whether they can be buried at Arlington National Cemetery. Can you catch us up, oven on exactly what's going on with that? Where are they whole debate has come from the distinction about our international cemetery versus other veteran cemeteries is Britain is one by the army other national, other national cemeteries, veteran cemeteries. I went by the better Administration destruction the Arlington national cemetery, the structure of the army, has argued that, for the wars are eligible for early tat, because
the law that gave them that Pakistan recognise them, as is better ninety five George, you said that they were veterans for purposes of the veterans administration, which is quite a technicality They have been brought in Tarletan, there are worse or recognition of military, and she saw the to the cemetery came out and said I only should they be here, but they should get status Of honor pseudo they should get. Perhaps the wish to get a flag and listen it'll be treated treated in this way. So this is a waiver soul of was what's been done for the last ten years for sure fifteen years, a bit better, they ve been eligible to be there, and I expect it to be there for decades now. So you know this is caused quite the opposite
than to all who were turned down. I want her son five very hard with today lovely and wanted to better so badly and her son. I just couldn't fight it was to fight it I very and anyway, Herman daughters Granddaughters have picked up the fight for all the work, and right now, there's a bill before Congress of the House and the Senate to make the earth was eligible to make them people to be, and I want to know the cemetery, reputable Malcolm X value, was among the first female come out the minor time she is leading the charge to recognise these watch. Taken it very personally that these women have been. He says we uninvited will be sure to update listeners when therein
views on that our good as ever laugh knew before we wrapped up. Bet you at the American Historical Association annual meeting earlier this year, and it was on a panel all that you were on about. Why historians should write up ads and engage the media about history and a lot of what you had to say really parallels a lot of what I'm Holly's and my mind when we talk about things on the show. Sometimes, so I wondered if you could take a minute just talk about why you think it's important for history for historians to talk to the public about history, but this is something that I am fairly passionate about I believe that historians know things we we know stoutly and a lot of our lived all of their professional lives learning.
Things and am making connection, and if we only talk to each other, it doesn't do a service to our country or to the world. I think we can help. People understand why today is the way it is by helping them see those connections and in reality, if we don't do it, you know those of us here really know the staff and are an airline learning at thinking about it than other people will and they won't do a good job of theirs sterile. Very that amateur historians out there. But there are a lot of people who have studied very slowly and then dont have the death of understanding that we could share inside. I just think is really important for historians to engage with the public and and help the publican
because people love history. When you talk to people, they like, I hated his thin ice boy, but look at your show. I mean it's over because people really do love history, I just don't like the way they ve been talk to about history of the past, and so I think, there's professional historians. We need to engage with the publican and see that they really do love history, and it really is important. the ceiling the world around them each other Brady though I one hundred percent, agree with Kate statement- that a lot of people think they don't like history, but they really just don't like the way that history has been presented to them back completely mirrors. My experience with Kate Well, yeah. We ve talked about this alive, but I'll say it again. I think when you're doing the here's a date, remember it here's a date. Remember it she
when they get into like the mechanics of what caused things? It's usually pretty dry, but if you actually again and see all of the influences that are going into what creates those moments in those days, then it gets a lot easier and more interesting and you find yourself Indeed, I wish that was set up in education that that could happen more regularly, but elsewhere too there I know there are people who do love the names and the dates and like that, the roadmap innovation, but a lot of it is involved with, like I know, someone who is a forensic accountant who loves spreadsheet the numbers in a way that I simply do that would be cool if history could then no school but thought through both of those approaches. We believe we have to learn them. Unburthen, there's two different ways, one, I think people that do love the the Memories Asian power and the dates and the names that them ever, I'm just speaking extemporaneous recycling completely off base, but I think those people have this innate ability.
pattern. Recognition were their able to kind of tease out that juice. cause and effect stuff from looking at all of those dates and places and names. That is maybe always immediately apparent to other people, and they haven't you how they get engaged. It's like a puzzle, game almost yeah, I think. I may be more big picture wrecking machine like extrapolate, the big picture from a list names and aids unless it involves star wars, and then I like all the members nation of needs and take it in any way to get back to get back to the last keen. Also reference arose. Parade float. This actually happened in twenty fourteen and the fleet was called our either on. The stars and it states armed forces who had been inspired by the war in their story, though, in our shared out where the episode we will include links to some pictures, some more about this place in aviation and armed forces and then legacy. Today's was basically like a work of public history to try to honour at honour people and educate people, as
A surviving wasp rode on the float. Fourteen people walked alone the including many women from the United States armed forces who had been inspired by the last and their story, though in our no doubts were the episode we will include links to some pictures. Some more about this played. It really is pretty astounding to look at it, before also in the show notes is going to be a link to the national wasp were more to Museum in Sweetwater Texas, into the official archive of the wars which is housed at text, women's university, tackling Cochrane's name, came up a few times in these replied fast, and you can find more about her in the episode for flights of female aviators, which will also linked to you and our standards, and I won't- I just think Kate again so much for agreeing to be on a show for giving us so much marvellous everything
Then there are things that I asked her that I sort of already knew the answers to the there were so many things that her answers, included, nuances and details that not only had occurred to me that they had not been present in any of the work that I had read and reviewed and watch to prepare for this interview. So thank you. Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure to talk Kate, do you have some listener mail to finish this one out with my view- and this is wrong when B and Wendy says I just want to thank you for covering the van port blood. We bought a house in the common neighbourhood of Portland and Van put what the report would have been our neighbour to the North Kivu located in the historic albino.
line. I've obviously heard the flood. However, I never connected the doubts about the racial undertones that led up to it, including the whipping laws and black man written into the organ constitution. I've shared your podcast with my friends on Facebook and neighbours on next door. Many have been surprised and intrigue to learn these details about. again as the white resident of historically non slave state. I grew up feeling pride about my stay because we were never a slave state, I am so glad as an adult. I have the opportunity to understand and learn more about the history of my state. You right when you say it's not just in the south of thing rode into my southern Oregon hometown, even had a quote street patrolled by vigilantes for justice into the early two thousands thanks again for opening our eyes more? Every week I love your plaid cast, Wendy, oh and then, but only when you talked about having to having listened to the pod cast a while.
In the yard, removing river rocks from the dirt and thief and still see that this area was once a full plain before they. Well, you know, ward off the water to let people build stuff there. Thank you so much for, writing Wendy. I wanted to read this for a couple reasons. One is that I am glad that this experience on next door posting the podcast was its like it, came off pretty positive. Yes, I have not had bad experiences some of my next door conversations about things that are related to racism in some way, Another thing that I wanted to say: let me we want to read this letter is that when we talk about about having felt pride, the oars It was never a slave stayed but are realising that a lot of things went on the word in the south. This is something that we ve been talking of. The pack has lately pretty much on purpose:
Can we have? I have some upcoming episode in the pipeline that are going to revisit the same territory, because I think that what the way a lot of people learn about slavery in the United States and a lot of ways the people learn about this of oars really over simplified and there's a sort of idea that the northern states, where the good guys, because they had stopped, allow. Slavery and the southern states, where the bad guys, because they had to be forced to stop allowing slavery at gunpoint. Basically, but that's not, bad glosses over of northern history and a lot of history from other parts of the United States, where e, yet sure slavery, I've been abolished port prior to the civil war, that a lot of those places had allowed
slavery previously in a lot of them, still were doing things that were not ok in terms of the treatment of their citizens there. That's definitely something that we have tried to address on. The pie casts give people a richer understanding and a more complete understanding of like how you don't get to say that the north. blameless, just because the north had already abolish slavery before the civil war started, like that's pretty low bar yeah. I guess I think there is, sometimes a false perception that there was never slavery in the north. That's by us anything No, no, no, no, no which gets into some problems and people get kind of a little bit twitchy
It's like they feel somehow that they are being blamed. The little bits yeah we're just China eggs, examine all of this because yeah it's only in really looking at the facts of how the past unfurled they were really gonna, have the clear picture and if it's there, look at this, probably even more reason that we should be taken Alexander. I agree with you yeah well, thank you again, Kate, for talking to me on the spot gas and for sharing so much wonderful, wonderful information, thanks to Wendy for writing that wonderful email. If you would like to write to us about this or near Pont Gas, where history like ass, the house, the works, dot com or also face, facebook that complements the mystery and on Twitter admitted in history or tumblr, is most in history, dot, tumblr dot com or alpha Pinterest Patterson missed in history. You come to our parent company website, which is asking for
all kinds of information about aircraft airplanes and military aircraft, all kinds of aviation history, lots of stuff that are at our current companies website. Also at our website we will have some or all of our past. We will have lots of poor links to set about the last week and more information about about doktor land acts were lots of cool stuff that we will have linked from there. five a louder than by FAO. You can learn all kinds of stuff at our parent companies website, which is a house that works that harm or our website, which is missed. It Furthermore, on thousands of other topics that are out of work, this episode of stuff, you missed and history classes, brought to you by the travel store. I have always one
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