Juana of Castile has gone down in history as "Juana la Loca." But Juana's mental state was likely not as bad as it seemed. Was she instead the victim of conniving relatives? In this episode, we discuss Juana's youth, her marriage and more.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Alone. Welcomes the package, unfair gouty and I'm going to check, reporting and today's subject is gonna, be wanna of cash deal and it's a really popular suggestion, but full disclosure. I originally chose it as a howling topic. I feel kind of like you a few weeks ago, where you are admitting one of your topic for Johan Devil. Yes, your hand up always supposed to have been a whole weaned topic, but I believe you had a delayed book order I did this. What's your excuse, I also had a little bit of the delay. I had a library birchen order, but I asked realized it was the way more complex story than I was anticipating and and once I got into Sorry, I realize it wasn't really Halloween episode at all, even though the ledge surrounding it certainly suggests of Halloween, nightmarish sort of air to it. One
There really is dwarfed by her more famous family members, her parents Ferdinand and Isabella the catholic monarch to combine the powers of their respect kingdoms, Aragon, Castillo, her grandson, Philip, the second of Armada, fame, her sister Catherine of Aragon, who is the wife, that Henry the eighth cast aside to marry Anne Boleyn she's, probably the most famous of all you can see, I wanna get almost lost in the mix, so consequently pretty much all that ever get said about one. I was that she was crazy, that she'd, rant and raved get her way, but she was so madly in love with her husband. She kept his dead body on hand, opening the coffin lid gazing at it kissing his feet. Thus we have one I ll look or Joanna the mad and
often the way the requests come in. They want to know about this crazy person and that one I was crazy, explains away. The nearly fifty years she spent in confinement not allowed to write not allowed to visit the nearby convent, and eventually to one room, though she was in her own right, queen of caste seal, that the story here is really so much more interesting raises. A lot of good questions, for example, was one are really mentally unbalanced, and why did the most important people in her life her husband, her father, her son? Why did they allow her to be treated as she was and, finally why, when she had the chance, didn't she do the same by them? So, as you can tell, this is a pretty massive subject with a lot of complexities. We're gonna take two episodes,
We discussed that plus. I just think since people have been asking for this topic since the beginning, I'm pretty sure we need to do right by it that one of the ultimate fate, which was, of course being locked up and towards the EAST thought, had a lot to do with her birth and obviously because of who her parents were Ferdinand and Isabella that also because of her birth order. She was the third child with a. And his sister ahead of her, so it was never expected that she would come into the inheritance. She dead her mother was Isabella. Castillo was a woman of intense religious conviction, Amene, hello, spanish inquisition, but failure there manifestation you have with one of one as family members, but is the best as a young woman had fought really hard to snatch her own thrown from competing
I claim in and really had a lot of force in her personality. Her father was his father rather was Ferdinand, the second of Aragon and couple had arranged their own marriage in fourteen sixty nine and while the partnership didn't officially United Kingdom Funding, both kingdoms even contain their own currencies. It did provide a certain amount of unit they were each acting as monarch and consort, and it was the very cool. Operative sort of marriage. The couple carried out the recurrent Chiesa, together with former podcast, subject and prevented a front, at least to their people, that their kingdoms were allied. But, of course, all these joint acts affairs all this cooperation hinged on the both of them being alive or at least uniting their kingdoms permanently through their children, but for the future,
seven years that they were married, it seems like the air that would have to do. This was, unfortunately, are unfortunately in their eyes a girl, a girl who is also named Isabella after her mother, then miraculously in fourteen seventy. Eight Ferdinand Isabella had a second child. A sun named Juan, followed quickly by three more daughters, wanna who was born in fourteen seventy nine than Maria and then Catherine, and while the junior Isabella had been raised to be a possible queen, the younger daughters were raised. We consorts because their parents naturally assume that their brother one would now inherit their kingdoms, which, I have to say that they didn't led an unusually adventurous life for princess as one in her sisters I mean Queen Isabella was intent. The interested and supervising her children's education and their religious instruction, and she didn't let her multiyear conflict with the moors, stop her from keeping a really close eye on how things were progressing with all of them. She took the kids on the road with her something that was occasionally dangerous lake.
When the family tat caught fire and they re than their. When Ferdinand Isabella took control of the alarm. Dublin- and I were talking about this beforehand- seems like Fernand and Isabella more than your average monarch. And we ve done a lot of these. That royal childhoods. Turkey's now really of raise their kids in, and I think that something important remember going forward to you that these would have been role models to them, not just from lake. While you are my lady, Queen my Lord, the Father, but somebody who they really new closely as well, but the group's work, really well educated. They learned Latin in politics, religion, music and dancing, plus a lot of domestic skills like baking and spinning and weaving. According to Julia Fox, who wrote the book sister clean, they would have been some of the best edge.
Women of their day. Really with one pretty major oversight. At least four girls were meant to be conference abroad. Girls would be meringue into foreign courts to establish diplomatic relations. that with modern languages I mean they were learning Latin, that they weren't learning french. They weren't learning English of a bit of a problem, but among this especially close and talented family law, that was really considered the beauty she had auburn hair. She had blue eyes and she was positive really closely resembled her namesake to Ferdinand Mother Wanna, Enrique as cheap, He resemble her so much that Isabella. We sometimes call her daughter, mother in law. According to the women in world history encyclopedia having Much older sister also meant that want Maria and Catherine got a peek at their future is concerts when they were still kids.
so they got a glimpse at all the pageantry that came with the wedding and the importance of a political alliance and even the responsibility that came with that that also they gotta look at what it meant for someone to part the family to leave the family. You realistically expect endeavours. them again in the scenario. So when their eldest sister Isabella left home in fourteen ninety to marry the portuguese king, they got to see all of this, but just seven months later, her husband was thrown from his horse and kill. The so is develop, came home and she was devastated. So this was likely a pretty formative event in all the kids lives and one that showed just how fragile these really The planned alliances could be vengefully, though it was, of course, the younger children turned to marry and Fernand oh really seem to have wrapped things up neatly and efficiently. They, of course, still the widowed Isabella in their hands, and they want to re marry her in this case,
if her dead husbands, brother, who was the new king of Portugal, men. Well, their middle daughter, Maria they decided to keep in reserve and thence cause. Isabella was so upset me. Widowed, that shit trying to get out of any remarriage entirely. She wanted to perhaps even enter a convent though they were gonna keep Maria on hand. Just in case Isabella didn't come through on that alliance, Catherine, who is still just a very young girl at the time, would eventually go on to marry the eldest son of Henry, the seventh of England Prince Arthur. That's off, though, a really great story, Catherine marrying Arthur in her widowhood and eventually marrying Arthur's, rather Henry the eighth and then finally- and this was the part that really concerns our story- wanna and one would marry a brother and sister from Burgundy, Philip and Margaret where the children of the holy roman emperor, Maximilian and
this dual marriage. I mean it some kind of strange, but it was a really a deal on both sides, at least for those from the parents perspective. It was a double strong alliance. For one thing, there was known for a dowry, and it was even convenient in terms of transportation and mean at least if the kids were kind of all the same age like Wilson our daughter on one chef in you, get we'll pick up yours and take her back to Spain, and it was very efficient, really efficient from from there. The way that they saw thing- and it was considered a pretty good man for sixteen year old, wanna too. For one thing she dodge the bullet by not having to marry the widowed Maximilian Herself son, Philip, was
the year older than her, and had the nickname, Philip, the fair or fill up the handsome. So coming from a sixteen year old girls point of view, that's probably good cat yeah something kind of enticing, and while she only stood to become arch duchess on her marriage, Philip was well position to become the next holy roman emperor. After his father, which was not an inherited They should have the right political connections essentially sure, though Wanna left Laredo August twenty second fourteen. Ninety six, with a fleet of one hundred shet bad, delayed. Her party wrecked a ship and men that she missed beyond say when she finally got to burgundy. She eventually met up with Philip in October, so months, months later, but a week before their planned wedding. When Philip saw her, though he was apparently so captivated by her beauty that he ordered the priest marry them
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find a new way forward. When suddenly, you have two ready or not, all for my kids are grown and out of the house, and I was checked out of a twenty five year- Career Superfund, paralyzed and change direction. So now what do we do? What's the first move- You have no idea where you're headed for us. It was starting the road to somewhere podcast and we don't really know, however, going but everyone overemphasize takes us someplace a little different, its super exciting If we're being honest, it can also get a little scary because maybe or relocating or having your first b or leaving relationship just starting or just starting over no man What the change are going through. The question is really the same. How do we get through when we feel uncertain I'm LISA. And I'm Joe Herzog join us as we navigate our own big life changes. Honour, podcast, the road to somewhere, listened de somewhere on the eye heart radial, app apple pie, gas,
wherever you get your bike us. So that seems like him in this kind of a fairy tale. That sort of story right she married her handsome prince, is only a year older than her he's well positioned to become holy roman emperor, good deal right maybe not so much because while things may have briefly then idyllic with one and Philip and love and with Wanna able to live a freer life in Brussels than she ever had a home with dances parties to go to, and she got where these daring, flemish dresses, but it didn't last very long. The couple seem to maintain their intense physical attraction for pretty much their entire marriage, but Philip soon became emotionally and possibly even physically abused, and he wasn't exactly faithful either, which of course, no wife wants that, but for her part, Wanna reacted too
infidelities in a way that would have been considered unseemly for our concept of the time Fox mentions how Isabella, despite her strong marriage of equals of Ferdinand just kind of Chernobyl and I on his illegitimate children, but wanna do no such thing. She wouldn't scenes and was intensely jealous of any woman. Philip came in contact with she'd starve herself in protest or go without sleep Philip, was also really manipulative and controlling as well. He not only allowed her no interest in governing which trimming she may not have expected that as the consular, but at least something for her too He didn't allow or anything like that, but he also controlled her own household in her personnel, which was something that was, though the very unusual decision to do that. He has managed all her fine. Then I mean you might think of monarch says that, coupled with a joint checking account, that was not the case. Queens had their own lands, their own rams there,
build their own staff to handle businesses. I mean they would bring a lot of that in perhaps with a dowry, but also some may be gifts from their husband they would manage it separately from from all of his possessions, Philip, didn't want to do that, and then he also stopped giving her the money do through their marriage agreement. Eventually Isabella, who was kind of was hearing rumours about what was going on with her daughter kind of confirmed with her daughters, religious it and whether she was as devout as she ought to be, but also what was going on with the marriage. She said Envoy, called prior to mass to investigate the situation, and he reported back that Wanna didn't even money for arms and then she couldn't pay her own servants. Most of the stand, when's ditched her eventually and opened up space for Phillips own pack to come in basically endless numbers of spies to to watch one as every move, well
Probably most ominously, Friar Thomas also reported that Wanna told him if she complained quote. She receives a great injury from it, so suggesting that she's being heard in the process as well the world, though these two still seemed like a happy couple, Philip addressed her up for a publican and they would dine in public together. He would give her costly. jewelry and they even have babies together, eventually an air and a spare and four daughters to the lot of kids. One of noxious. Now tat, though, when their first child turned out to be a girl, disappointed, fill it base They told one, you know the extent of our new wife I'll pay, for it. if you have one, but you can handle the daughter, but back to back to Spain, we ve been catching up on All of what was going on in burgundy between one and fill out that as their marriage was crumbling, her face
he underwent the theories of marriages and birth and unexpected death that ultimately, is altered in the most unlikely of events, and that was, of course, wanna becoming air to Aragon and Castillo. So, first of all, we should back track to the devil: marriage between the two brothers, sisters. That's so well want. I was then after Bergen eat a merry Philip, Philip, seventeen year olds. That's your Margaret was sent to Spain to marry. One is older. Brother, Juan everybody's got all that street. This couple also experienced brief marital happiness that, in October fourteen ninety seven after only six month of marriage, Juan suddenly thickened and died, he was only twenty years old things got worse, Margaret turned out to be pregnant, but she miscarried, it seemed like things were in a bad state for Ferdinand and Isabella s family, and this meant that one is eldest sister.
Isabella was again ere. She had finally overcome her grief at her first husband's death to marry his brother and had only recently gone to Portugal when the news of One's deaf came to her and she and her. preventing man well returned to Spain to be recognised by the court? Is an assembly representing the nobility and towns of the kingdom? Isabella two turned out to be present: and gave birth to her son Miguel in Spain, but she died shortly after childbirth and, ultimately, her sister Maria, the one who had soared, have been held in reserve, was sent off to marry Manuel making story even more complicated as very confused, though the family tree gets a little tight in there. But at this point clearly Hopes were on this baby boy Miguel, whose or even agreed for him to be raised by his green parents and stay in rather than Portugal mean he seemed very obliging, but Lily
gal lived only two years and died, and fifteen hundred so suddenly wanna is the eldest of her parents. Children no grandchildren from the siblings above her and therefore air. To her parents, land a situation that was unimaginable to Ferdinand Isabella and, wanna herself, but immensely attractive to her husband, Philip, who Certainly if he wouldn't allow her to be a concert. You know to manage her own household as his consort. He certainly had no intention of letting her rule as her own monarchy, noise at rule, her own lands of Queen Cor ethnic monarchs, though it was a disturbing situation since Wanna was so clearly under Philips Control as Isabella knew from Friar Thomas's reports and since Philippine from Burgundy was not as unabashedly pro spanish as
I hoped in fact, on the way to Spain, Philip insisted that they travel by land, though it took much you're gonna Wanna was pregnant with their third child at the time, but he wanted to do that So they could just gonna take a detour and swing by France on the way there. He betrothed their baby Charles to lose the twelfth daughter, something that water is a good anti french spanish Princess just hated, and why just so interesting note here, even though she was still just an arch duchess. She also didn't acknowledged the french Queen Ass, her better. And even war, only spanish, close at court spunky girl. That's another important thing to consider, especially in the next episode, but forget it The bellows still hoped that this Philip problem could be thirty ironed out, and they hoped they could do that by keeping the couple the young couple and, in their kids, ideally Spain with that means training wanna to become an independent mom.
because they had with their eldest daughter Isabella when she was a girl teaching fill up without his new country, how it works, trying to get him to have to have an appreciation of it. But Philip was just completely on interested and then he was therefore verb to things centrally, for the approval of the court is, of course, still in Aragon as Wanna air in its Philip. As conference, though, he wanted to get that stamp of approval in then go home and Can I wanna with by this point already pregnant with their fourth child and couldn't travel. He left anyway, We're going back to burgundy, with or without her My name is Sebastian man escargot cordiality, and this is the Peat and Sebastian POD catches is a show of beet. Now talk about our personal private lives, just two guys marksmen fired six times in the course of sixteen
I am for medium peak Coralie and ivory media. I met six years ago on a bus in Toronto eyes. Terrible Iheart radio is number one for Podcast Zeno purpose man that you go like the step by step, might have, it doesn't say anywhere on it do in the highest pitch voice. You have fast can there's other pod case out there that you probably listening to or watching listen people I'm telling you right now this comedy gold were taken to show to listen to the pain Sebastian show on the eye, heart, radio, app apple pie cares or wherever you get. Your pipe has enlarged it on, and I spent the last decade
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in the first contact with lorries evil. That's me on. I hardly lap and apple pie chasms or wherever you get your pod cast. So wanna Pakistan span for for a certain period of time to deliver her baby. She did that was love. second standing Ferdinand and then she was faced with a decision in it. probably the most important decision ever life or may have banned, and that was what to stay in Spain with her parents and her her new baby or return to her husband, it's hard to really speculate too much without indulging in all tree here. But it's a bell was offering her daughter the chance to learn the workings of government and to grow into an independent monarch, though it is arguable as to how much power wanna might have had with two parents is forceful of hers, sort of leading the way but
least fellow, there was this chance to get away from her abusive husband, Philip and live again in this luxury, yes familiar life, but manipulative Philip. new that as an unpopular foreigner, his spanish claim really revolved around having Wanna under his thumb, so he was probably regretting leaving without her. At this point, Wanna chose husband, though, for some reason whether it was because she loved him- or maybe she missed her other older children, because Philip made little Charles write a letter to her begging, her to come home or she simply felt it was her role to play, to go back and to be his wife, the loyal conference He has why the loyal concert by Isabel, a wooden agree finally protested in the on are, If you knew how one she had certainly honed at her during her time at Phillips court.
and she didn't eat and she didn't sleep. She didn't talk, he'd stand in the rain and mantle to be, let be able to go home and by Tina for Isabella. Finally, let her go. She convinced her to tell me. Baby Ferdinand behind in Spain. Since he was kind of young to travel, it was clearly a fateful decision partly because wanna through in her lot with Philip but also She showed her mother and many other people back in Spain. She might be a little unbalanced. All of these uncleanly sort of protests were disturbing tougher and it turned out to be the perfect weapon for fillip to gain wanders inheritance, but we're gonna stop Here and talk about what happened later, what happened with Philip, what happens with Ferdinand? What happens with Charles its little kid at this point
and who ends up getting to run cast and in Aragon. He does so. We will be discussing all of that in effect, have fun kind of listener, mail that we have today. Sarah, for we have one that I chose because it pretty charming, but it also has the spanish reference in it, but I'll get set out the end from listener. Monica and she wrote to say I'm a fiction novelist, and I just love your podcast. When I'm writing, I always have you guys or Josh and shout from stuff you should now on in the background, without knowing You guys have been a huge help when I'm looking for a voice is for my characters. Currently fear you give voice to the good clean into Billina. You give weight to the heroin when I finally publish the first part of my book theories of his shirt. neither a copy, that's very fond of you- do have a very cleanly those thank you. You have the voice of a hero, my saying so
Monica does go on. No two to mention that she has a little bit of a connection to the great spanish hero else said and suggested him as a topic. I'm kidding right, What about his horse long ago in the histories greatest saddlehorses arise, but she thought that often himself would make a pretty athletic club tat We want to go away back in spanish history. That would be a good place to start have another email here from Shannon and taxes, and she says I was so excited to be the subject of your most recent podcast, which is a different podcast from probably my most. One many of you have listened to a built in order that the gym buoy podcast but she's, referring to what she said have a family connection to share really into genealogy and in some both read of a dispute between Jim Buoy and one of my direct ancestors. Further research foundation
sisters so do we land that wasn't has to tell so. There is the incidence of land speculation and fury buoy and showed him that a profit was to be had. While I was in high school fifteen years ago, we took little trip to the basement, have a parish court house and will be the Anna and actually held the original billow sail on our hands complete with my ancestors and Billy signatures. Dad Nigel TAT, we should have just walked out with it. The digital picture isn't great and the courthouse apparently figure that they shouldn't allow. anyone to peruse their records unsupervised darn anyway. We are pretty blown away by the recently on the story, I mean, if, if it's the same guy, the one who kicked off Billy in the first place, realizing that this could be a business after he got cheated himself. That's pretty pretty wild a good ancestry story. It is so. Thank you guys think you were suggestions were writing stories. Inspired our voices. That's always call
and sharing suggestions to the end. If you have any more suggestions to share with us, you can write history, podcast discovery, dot com or you can look up on Facebook Cross on Twitter. It miss industry, and if you want to learn a little bit more about Wanna, spread a comment. We do have an article on how royalty work in check that out by visiting our homepage, W W W down how different dot com for more or less and thousands of other topics that how stuff works out com.
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