The Seuss is loose in this episode about legendary children's book author Ted Geisel. The funny thing is, he didn't ever want children of his own, and his past work was a bit problematic.
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I ain't there's Jerry over there. The doktor soil cast our final episode this year, two thousand eighteen, so long in the books. Doctors, choice, doctors, choices right. You know it's funny where we'll get to that. Not everything! That's funny can wait. Wherein it talk, serious doctors is was another of children's books. He was so great and also kind of racist chuck. There's a lot of stuff in here. I wish, I didn't know we're about to ruin. Doctors is at the end of the year right after the holidays. But well, let's just talk about the man. Ok, so We are talking. We keep saying doctors voice, everybody, tourism is doctor suits, but apparently the correct pronunciation is source.
And in the guy would know, because choices actually is middle name, his name Theodore source, guys all or diesel is Geisler Geese, it would be so now in German, that you go with the second thou, so Theodore source guy yeah, and its order when I saw that everyone basically was like Seuss until he eventually like fine like I can't fight this fight in and whether local spilett differ. We read their reminded me of Joe these men, oh yeah, the very famous story of the quarterback joked these men who changed his spelling or his pronunciation attachment to run with Heisman, which I think is the story of industry. No. Now I think that's true, oh really Now. What do you think that was just like an old football deal? Now? I never heard that you just being funny out now that that really happened. There really came the bottom in the rump when his thigh bone Opened at ease Guess my knee would have busted if he is kept at these
and then another now is Saward. Obviously, once we get into Joe Thighs men like breaking talk, word told you, my doctor, serious, that's right, like I said, Theodore source Geiss or who is I care really think of it. Children's book author, that is more widely known, maybe Charles Schulz Maybe I think an earthly right on ship guy, you'll do about Cheshire children's book like Judy, sure, but Onofre colored shows but young adult pianos. Why I like children's book that gets the baron same bears? not the baron steam bears yeah. I would say that Teddy Geyser holds that distinction
at the very least his work. His drawing is just immediately recognisable style. I mean that fought we. U, we use that fund for our live Christmas. Show shirt, seeks neon copyright q that was not his hook. In fact, I looked it up. I was gonna curious, like what is that great fought that it uses for his book titles and I dont know what he used at. He probably just hand drew it sure I imagine here. Now? There are funds called source doctors, s o o s, fight or drenched that you means tat. You can get the sure their workers, however her their word and for ever gang Girls wearing like huge Genco is the last time I heard the word gang gave my milk off my trade, bringing about the last time I use. So shall we go back
to the beginning. Yes, Spectre, Springfield Massachusetts in nineteen o four, that's right march to as a matter of fact, fellow Pisces doctors choice was born Teddy Geyser and his grand pops had come from Germany. Intimidating hundreds bought a brewery cause. They were good germans. The other. They knew all about beer and originally get this. The name of the brewery was Kalmbach in Geiss. All and they locally I'll come back and guzzle. I love that and then awesome in German. Nonetheless, whatever that would be, I think it become backing guys. So he moved here in it would end up becoming Springfield Breweries company, which father then ran, and this is really like. Did he even did a show and prohibition and never hit home to me, some the repercussions of that I was just like people can't drink.
But I never thought about a family business just being shut down. Does the good episode it was, but that's what happened that you know Prohibition came along, they had the successful, but three in their family knows there like sorry, no longer and business combined, another job, these guys who were secretly drinking right now. So arm headed the job that is his father, did get was eventually became. This supervisor of the towns parks, chemical and dumb, there's a myth, an incorrect myth from what I understand- one of the parks had a zoo in it and so a lot of people that drawings of the animals were some the first at the zoo worrisome of the first drawings. A little ted came up with not true. Now Father became superintending the parks and already a grown man. Do not grow MA. Am he was definitely not a little kid at the zoo? Did he go to the zoo, enjoy animals, or is that all false ethic? It may be all false, but I'm making them
part up by just from what I read he was grown enough that he was in a little boy drawing pictures of animals at the zoo. Like people think interesting, I thought I was his well. I love bussing myths, where a barrage. Now he should do a show. So we were one comes along, which have been a been doing on a rule we're one reading lately with a really happen, through the armistice armistice. Yeager, really interesting. I didn't much about it. It's a pretty serious were brutal everything I know about. As from the wonder woman movie near I can't so they were german that the guys were, like we said, and so in the United States. Steering wheel or one. There was a lot of anti. In fact, for a long time actually does a lot of anti german sentiment in the? U S idyllic, a german regions, like beer in name is guy, so everyone clear that they were german, and so
You know there was there was I get the feeling that You know felt like he was bike, pinned on and laughed at raised because he was german right. So if you can't be them joy, turn that same kind of bigotry and others were fine right, so he started at a very early age and high school drawing cartoons riding essays. Funny essay satirical essays and studies in opinion very early on, maybe because he was german and he just reverses last name and he became Theo Le Sieg yeah. Actually, I'm one of my favorite books, Hooper hampered near him, is written by feel the sig really interesting, I always thought this was the doctors who spoke, and then I saw this and am like it was a doktor sues book. Neither would I don't think so. It's account Hooper brooding, not him about Kitty Stern, a birthday party
everybody's invited to the greatest birthday party you ve ever seen in your life, except for poor hump, Hooper Humbird Ink- and I think, gets invited. Finally, at the end reappearance like we should probably get justice and go and get him there are actually was a birthday party I was invited to really was like I'm Hooper hampered Well, you know my deal was I was allowed to get a boy girl parties for a while. But you are still invited right here, but that was even worse cuz I was invited now I like, I had to say no again go Khazars girls, they're ray. I got, I mean humiliating that, especially in college yeah there like with girls, I don't know, as my parents is in great to me, they told me they smell mice are so, he reverses name became, was Sieg, went to Dartmouth College
and like many many famous humorist. I guess you could call I'm here for sure he wrote for the his college. Humor magazine was called the Jack O Lantern. Obviously, and it was just like really solidifies, that college humor magazines really have produced some of the brightest comedic mines that in this country, the ear a year men. I think worked in national importance to me, Don't let them also to be shown in certainly did the harbor lampoon, I'm pretty sure Letterman there as well at the very least lot of his writers- did sure. Ok, fine again what will settle on that? That version of the truth, but he got kicked off of the magazine staff when he's got drinking on campus during prohibition just kind of yeah how big it wasn't for him. What you mean
It is like all I wanna be on the magazine staff. This is terrible is an unjust now, yet not awesome for him right yea. I thought you meant he wasn't during the drinking or something right. This did nothing to cut his career off the nun and he just adopted a new pseudonym source, Frank as a: U S, s again, but he pronounced at source right, but he was. The only person who did so. He d gradually from Dartmouth anything nineteen, twenty six which all further goes to show that he was so if he graduated college, ninety twenty six, then his father brewery wouldn't have been shut down until at all when prohibition started, but he would use obviously not a young kid necessarily gotcha. Ok, John Dumb animals at the zoo at this, but how he went on to Oxford too. I guess pursue a higher degree. I think it was going to be a teacher.
His original intent- and he didn't like Oxford by Her brought him to his wife, Helen Palmer S. First, wife is first. Why and dumb they met, and she actually had a really great influence on him. By saying, I think you maybe begin to be a better artist than a teacher in kind of pushed him toward that? Now any added at pursuing occur we're in art, largely because of her influence. Yeah He sorted did the the student thing he he worked on all and he traveled around Europe been sort of doing, and he was with Helen. Of course, this whole time they eventually get married and then he went to work for a magazine called judge drawing once again, like political cartoons, humor cartoons acted disarray, added the doktor to his name, a sort of a joke because he again did not get
doctorate degree or whatever use pursuing. No, he didn't, but later on in life, Dartmouth did bestow an honorary degree to make him an official doc. When are we gonna get one of those been waiting, a long time chuck and are they is worthless, as I think they are totally appear. I'm sure you'll get like the discounted Wendy's that they offer. But that's that's really the only per aside from today, like I'm a doctor in you really call yourself. That, though, sure like only chumps, do that right, like you, have to call me doctrine attitude, you you'll see me telling people occur the doktor clock. All does I'll be more personal or be Doktor Joshua Good Chiropractor. I could see you going off in getting your Phd, Wendy, nay, nay, nay, the the the bowling Green State University in Ohio, backdoor version pretty much near reversion are itself. He got the doktor on the name became doctors, choice and
from then on? He never wrote under his given name again. He was always doktor choice from that point right to take a break. You can see me getting a phd air this late in my career, this made in my career who am I like Natalie, poor men or something? Yes right? Let's take a break sir. New year's resolutions are very, very difficult to keep git exercise save more money. What have on this? We have a resolution that you can really work with stop wasting time going to the post office that right, you stamps dot com instead because they bring all the services of the? U S: postal service, right to your computer, with your small business sinning invoice.
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But now I wish raped Abed nearly Portman hates being called net. You think, is she seems, like the type of Natalie who would he being called Nat, let's find out Doktor Portman, Natalie Portman. Will you please get in touch with us and let us know whether you're cool thing called Matt or not. Why I hate, since we're on that big shout out to Mr Mark Ruffalo. The male Natalie Portman near he tweeted out our neighbourhood talkers episode, which means He is aware of this podcast and were huge fan. So if you listen man thanks yeah thanks latte, not nuts as to where he liked it here Courage, people was there, it wasn't like steer clear of this piece of poop right. This is again the council is, what do you think maybe I remember when I saw you can count on me for the first time that movie will correct me. Is such a good move again, not just the first time I just Every time you watch the movie counterforce really great so
I have another shook a movie crush. Mr ruffled have you on his will to sleep. There are eight, so I hears what happens Teddy Geyser starts doing adds. Yet and does quite well yeah. I mean, if you add, illustrator, you basically do it. You're too the clients, as this is what we want, and he was the kind of artist who, because of its distinctive style, his I'll is what the clients wanted right. So as an ad illustrator, he became nationally famous, which is crazy to think of now it really at his first big break was for something called flit. It was a bug sprain. If you look at the flit ads, they have a picture of the flit. Is that all Timey Tom and Jerry palmed off my hands? I couldn't be more poisoning basilica clouds noxious smoke into, therefore like a scam
in cross border Healthcare. Basically, here I am better use drawing suffering. He came up with a catchphrase because he wasn't just illustrating use, also copy writing in these ads, and he came up with quick Henry the flit in there just became a national catchphrase, Alec where's the beef right like somebody's pester years, dislike to some your quick Henry, the flit, that's how I probably wouldn't buy them, so he became known for that in a second Paint made an even bigger oh right, so he did flit for seventeen years dude right, which is like a thought me Asher. He did that for a couple years right, because almost decades of doing those adds made a lot of money kept him. You know a nice and employed through that through the great depression, and then this means even weirder? He went to for standard oil who had a so SL gas right, and this was so marine, which was their boat oil yeah in nineteen thirty four.
He has this pr idea to create a a fake navy. The Susa, namely the Seuss Navy, witches nothing he just made it up out of nowhere to promote the ESA Marino yet and it worked yeah, because he basically drafted people into his navy. He would draw like famous figures. Say Eleanor Roosevelt, like that dressed up in the suit the Susan the uniform or whatever, and it became a thing. I people and to be in it, so they would apply to be in it. I guess it s always hold the party every year and just pull out all the stops. It is a lavish Seuss, Seuss Navy Party Euros Gal the sooner Navy, luncheon and frolic, let's hope so like thirty's they had two thousand admirals and they included among them. Vincent asked her. And Guy Lombardo famous bandleader, and as this grabs articles ed put it. They were what you would call like pacemakers today like wealthy in
essential Americans, wanted to be in this fake navy to go to this John and frolic right. Then he wrote these little Navy story, booklets in it Astonishingly, it was a big deal when it actually work and when Look at him there. They look like doctors, whose books like bright psyche change to style. None of this is the thing like he became famous for its famous and sought after for his start yeah exactly and weirdly enough. He said that the only reason he went to children's books initially was because his standard oil contract didn't forbid it like that, the work that he was allowed to do. I gotcha he never. He was like it's not like. I had a great thing for kids, even said very famously multiple times there he didn't write for kids, zero for people re any also famously said you have it's our entertainment, bright, yeah hidden one kid did not want it now, I never had so, which came true, so
He was already pretty famous by the time we were too came around any actually volunteered to become of soldier, but he was sent to Hollywood to work at once old, Fort Fox yeah. This is strange. I mean I had heard of the signal corps. Will the signal corps? is everything from code coding breakers are really all the way to psychological operations. A lot of the signatories dislike the people that made document reason stuff. This is a division within the signal corps gotcha, and so he was basically in this. This sum, this division with Frank Capra in some other leg, screenwriters actors, basically anybody who had anything to do with Visual entertainment was put into this group in Hollywood, on the Fox laud at what was called for Fox and he that's worth
that most of the war, although there was a fascinating story about the time when he went to Europe because he had to go get approvals for a documentary. He had worked on yeah from all the high ranking generals in Europe, so we went from headquarters. Headquarters throughout Europe and well in Luxembourg. He visited some of his friends and he basically got the skinny, they think the ghost army. You know the ghost Army were the head. Inflatable tanks in here, like the it was meant to make America's Millet look way bigger than it was these guys we're running psychological operations? Will doctors, who was friends with some of the higher ups in the ghost army and they think that they, showed him on a map like where to go, to go, see some of these well image in the time he left and the time he got there. There suddenly behind enemy lie. Did the battle of the bulge literally started around him?
while it is true that the EU is like ours is driving around. Thinking like it was just hard define, friendly, true Pierre as part of Combat Belgium sure is pretty, but he ended up inadvertent, spending three days, ten miles behind enemy lines during the battle of the bulging, just barely made it out with his life. Yet he was rescued by the Brits but he would eventually become my lieutenant colonel yeah in his short stand as a late thirty year old he's, I think thirty eight, when he first went in right out, really come interesting, piece of backstory were heap. He was we left out a pretty pretty big part of his format years early on in his career was he wanted to become He wanted to have a say in the direction America took in war war too, and he was very much ever of going to war against the Nazis and Japan and India and One of the reasons why he was in favour was because he was extremely anti fascist. He aided fascism,
and he got a job at a liberal magazine. I think a newspaper actually called p m there. Founded in New York and it was found- with the eye to to basically call people out her. Other people around their very lives. Very anti fascist, very pro war war to a living called at the time and it was very anti isolationist too and Doktor Seuss was dry being editorial cartoons, very political etiquette, editorial cartoons about seven days a week for this magazine any did some really good work It actually well yeah and then in the in the army, actually made films. He was leaves me, documentaries run alongside Frank, Capra. Her he had one series of training videos called private snafu, that were animated, but they were there.
Chuck Jones actually yeah. This is so crazy about all this talent, that's like in the army producing meetings at the time, but he went on to make live action documentaries, one your job in Germany and other called our job. Japan, Macarthur stopped the release of. Our job in Japan apparently RO patent stormed out of a screening. Of one of the other ones and I couldn't find the word, but he said he uttered one loud curse words or you can find it now. If you did you, it was be Ok, what are you to think? I it to be sure, but one word so wasn't the f word unless it was just just long drawn out. There are abs that make sense. Yet wait. I dont understand. I don't know what the problem was, but there are both the arch
in Japan or your job in Germany, yeah where's about occupation, post post occupation, life in Germany or Japan and we'll get you can watch your job in Germany on Youtube near an end, our job in Japan to he s a heap, he re cut. Those basically can a rewritten recall those later on in recital them Hitler lives and designed for tat. No, he didn't they were re cut around him. Without his say, I don't know he and his wife later got those fell. All real in re cut them in one an academy award, ok yeah! I had read that a producer went in and did some re cutting against their wishes and made it way worse than than they originally intended. I will that may have happened and then maybe they. Then later on he recalled it. We ve got the asker for their version right, ok, but we I've got a lot actually because he knew he was actually head Previous to the army had already written children's books like Keefe Windfall
into this because of a ship trip that he took in nineteen thirty. Six, let's walk a little bit? They they went on a transatlantic voyage aboard the EMS comes home and apparently the ship's engine had this beat this hypnotic throbbing sound. They just really stuck with him. And I got into his head, and so he started composing rhyming couplets that match with this rhythm kind of like that's. My this comes home, impression, urrey, well it into being what's called anesthetic tram after, which is what he would make his career on this poetic meter. You know what that made me think of Chuck they're, like I've, never heard those words together in my life, but no one ever taught me how to read a doctor Seuss book. It's almost like we have some.
Green thing in our brain to read things in that and of rhythm arrived. You don't I mean, or is it just like my parents were that to me and that's where I picked it up from, but who taught them taught anybody how to read something in rhymes is just like you, just as ninety intuitive and when you, when you, when you're, not reading it in the right rhythm, your brain realises incorrect. You and you go back and re. Read it the right way right like when you get to the next line. You like, I wait, that's out of beater, whatever you figure it out Naturally, you no wonder why word geared towards that yeah, it's funny too cuz. I have a lot of kids. Every night now in some of em are great, and some of them just like they'll, do a worthy Does it quite right and I'm always I come on more those stuff too much in a line, and it's not like graceful in the red and white man. Mrs lame do better orange endure it doesnt Abed lies. Eminem, ok
Famously can rhymes orange, which I found out because it I said nothing rhymes with order really well. Everyone's always said that, because it's true while I meant it door hinge, that's funny, so he created children's on that in a panic to travel called, and this is a story no one can beat that was later changed and publish the night. Thirty seven as and to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street He had an old friend and he ran into from Dartmouth that turned out to be a children's book editor at Bay press. So I read an account of the story. The person saying telling the story said had he been walking on the other side of the street tat day. He may have never become a children's author year like it was that fateful he friend from Dartmouth was in you children spoke editor, a vanguard. You said yes and wood with so new that he was looking for material and doktor sues happen,
be walking around with the manuscript on him, and just happened to be down there and ran into each other in this book up published, and that was the one worry first made his name as it shows put greater Europe. It shut out, and bar book agent- that's right here. So this this and a passive. Two dromedaries, what he basically stuck with the rest of his career. He alter it here and their use other me here and there, but this is where he knew. No. As so that was his bread and butter, and it's very walls like in Canada, and three for time, and it just was sort of perfect for kids books right and with that, first kids, but and to think I on mulberry through apparently about a kidney Marco who sees a horse and cart on a street and ass it. It just becomes a bigger bigger and more like tsar in grand thing that sire and this will come.
Later on in the episode yeah. So he's right in these books he's dead, ok here, his fourth book was called Horton hatches. The egg think us where we first meet Horton but he wasn't like loading the world on fire and then that's when he goes in the army right. Let me tell you the story about. Caught in the battle of the bulge again here yet He makes it through war too. He escaped to this I from the battle of the bulbs it comes out of war war too, he goes right back to writing books Anyway, he wrote a few more in the forties. I believe he wrote yodel the turtle which I now Who is an allegory for Hitler? He say yeah, apparently the early drafts of it he had done Hitler mustache on Euro the turtle, it's about anti. Or to earn their. I authoritarian is that Hitler, Michael Jordan, does he have a healer mustache? He did very,
misleading in that of one hand Stevie Commercial and everyone was like Someone not told him, I don't. I didn't see that I have my head in the sand like I was Charles Limburger, something nice circular I was just for you and me so use writing some more and he was, I mean who's selling, like thousands of copies every every time he released a book. He was known learns Arthur had already establishes his style is something that was recognisable around the United States, but it wasn't until the MID fifties that things- are really changed for him. There while it is a Hitler. There's no mistake there, it's a decision, so it I think in nineteen fifty five there was a book in called. Why can't Johnny Reed, I
and a guy named rude of flesh, and I realize what jumped over we'll get back she and her ready for getting rid of flesh. This flesh near. I fully support after you, he'll be a good one that already flesh here you'd have to yourself Rudy to in any way router He wrote why, Johnny revenue is basically like in it men of the american public school system, the education system and how we talk. Kids d: and it was equally an indictment of Lake Dick and Jane and the way they kids used to read or be taught to read. Was this. Basically, here are words on a page memorize that yeah zero. Ball. This is the word red, don't be an idiot red ball say it's kind of the worst way to teach kids stuff
is an the guy. In the article said, he wrote an article in life later on to he said you know, be a great children's book author to teach kids how to read his doctors. He got. It he's already writing books for a kid yeah. Why? But if you just directed toward actually teaching to read the beat: that's the kids. We definitely want that and it turns out that editor, I think at Hoddan, Michelin or somebody wherever, wherever Doktor Susa, writing at the time under thunder, Miss Lindon. How are you he said that actually pretty I idea in that's where we got the captain had the traders originally meant as a reading primer, I think there were two twenty. Two hundred and twenty five words ending in very famously his editor bet him after that that he could not write a book with only fifty words and he might take this book green eggs and ham and shove it in shove it and give me my fifty dollars,
and that is supposedly drew. His editor bet him that he could not do so and, as were green eggs in him, came from you and it's fifty words exactly that's right, so high at this point he went from Ed says: he went from being a well known children's author to probably the best known children's author in the world. Yet he'd shown not We could he right fine whimsical stories. The disguised moral lesson in the middle of it too, with great ills relations in hand drawn fonts and all that he could actually teach the world's children how to read English at least yeah and then from that success. He he wrote that same year, how the Grinstead Christmas. That's a big year. Men very peculiar, so camel hair emigrants same you're, right, yeah, ok here, which has just amazing and then a nineteen sixty six. Of course, we get the very famous said tv cartoon adaptation, which while still love and enjoy today, including me,
and he ended up being so successful that they gave him a zone imprint at Random House with his wife, Helen Palmer guys all who was cut by all accounts, the woman behind the man? Oh yeah, she was an author herself ass. You are quite a few books. One called Do you know to do you know what I'm going to do next Saturday to you? One called Now, if you did last summer, and his funny adding those two words. This makes it threatened horror novel one called why I built the Google House and one called I was kissed by seal at the zoo. So I didn't want to just kind of wash over her because she she was author in very sadly, she ended up committing suicide.
Very late in life here within a couple years of an affair that he had near any apparently have multiple affairs in her. Her suicide note supposedly reference this. This feeling that- it can have been overshadowed by him in his career yeah. Unlike you said, she was very much the woman behind the man, but anything expected to support him in that thing. Did she put her own career way so that she could handle his correspondence and business ere. She was in charge of correspondence to like sick kids that road runner entire classes in here she was, she was he all. He was the artistic genius need to be left alone to he could make these books every year and she handled everything think right and ask somebody to. Their career away, so that you can have yours. It's a big thing now ask somebody yeah, I mean the shoes see nine when she- and I believe I
had committed suicide. Earlier I apologize. I know you don't use that term anymore, so we say now that she died by suicide right right. Having his committed makes it sound like she committed a sin yeah, and we people wrote written about that. Now, as we are, glad to be made aware of that, and so she was sixty nine years old and apparently also suffered from Guillaume Bear our game bar ay syndrome. Here we got corrected on that some other times. I remember about how to pronounce it so I mean the who's. Who knows why someone of ITALY that path and life could be a lot of factors yeah, but yeah October, twenty third, nineteen sixty seven, she overdosed on occasion after they ve been married for forty years to man and so shortly after that, he married Audrey diamond yes guys. All who
his widow, who is a belief still alive and in basically running his estate still dear. Her name was Audrey stone diamond, but it was D. I M, O n t know a oh yeah is interesting ones, writs efficient, but yes, she became choice and he went just go and get used to it. This is really a voice in size. He's like I love you, she had two daughters and he said I bet you they'd Le Boarding School and she went and she later on even said. This is a direct quote. She said they wouldn't and happy with TED and TED wouldn't have been happy with them: He really did not want. Kids are kids to be around. He disliked doing the books. I d like to do is pretty interesting so he am that ninety Fifty seven year does a big brown out here for him and dumb there
kind of the year that he became the doktor suits their we we see, but he kept writing for many many years I mean up until his death in ninety ninety one. He apparently cranked up the book a year. There was some other some of them. Over time kind of took on much more progressive tones until he became the doktor Seuss that we see today. So prior to that, though, In recent years some people have kind of said: hey, you know digested had some really racist, bigoted stuff in his early work and its become kind of this. National conversation to kind of figure out how to do this, because everyone loves Doktor, Seuss loves Doktor, soups, there's nobody who doesn't like doktor suits, but if you are work, I said
but if you, if you start digging into especially those early work, it becomes problematic and you won't take a break Ok, all right, it will take a break and we will take part in that national conversation right after that
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Apple, podcast or wherever you get your podcast, alright, alright chuck so its national conversation time. So Dr Seuss, especially in his earliest work, is like a lantern and judge writer. The humor magazine writer, a lot of stuff was extremely racist. Yes, as it puts it, not just racist for the time being, but monstrously racist, stuff I like full on black face caricatures depicted african american characters, as lazy as savages have too many kids he made
it's about slavery, there's one we can't even read on the show, but it's awful yeah right. He also especially as after Pearl Harbor acted aid, a lot of his creative energy toward making ugly caricatures of Japan and everything japanese in japanese Americans in a really unflattering like to get an apparently super internment is you know, you dont to drag somebody through the mud right, but if we're gonna give a picture the man this is who he was earlier in his life right, so Ed makes it really good point. I think it's a great American for the way that he kind of handle this too. He saying that that If you look at his early stuff
he was a younger man at the time, and I think it was a we should also say at qualifies as like. None of this excuses anything sure, but but you know, look at the whole the whole picture of the person. If you look at his earlier stuff, his his worst most racist stuff is when he was young steer and is most progress, stuff that everybody knows in laws as doctors oozes, win the world was kind of changing to guess. I, like a nineteen. Eighty nine he is like I'm gonna, deliver serve up a good old racist cartoon right, exactly alike. He invented, see, monkeys or something like that right, so he kind of progressed with the world, and not only did he progress with the world and kind of changes. Views too, to take on much more progressive stuff themes like gum like bigotry, The sneakers here is about discriminating against people and is how ridiculous that is how people are actually people a lot of people
wait to Horton of a who, as a bit of a mere culpa, for his treatment of the Japanese prior to or to an during or war to the Lord acts is obviously pro environmentalism yeah. He fully change one of his books altogether and earlier version of an end to think us on a mobile street. Add the word chinaman in there was worse than Chinaman. Then he be changed that to chinese person like in the publication of the book for future printings right, so he he definitely evolved his works of art. He never came out publicly said. Hey sorry about all the racist stuff that I did earlier the time he died and ninety ninety. I think that that really wasn't the way that the world was turning, at the time, but he D does seem to have evolved and changed with the
I'm an end, did go back and revise some stuff that had crept into his his work here. And this is come to more prominently in the past few years, because they have been like book, festivals and children's literature festivals that have either been boycotted or where they ve short sort. I tried it make him a little less prominent. The cat and the hat I think, was used. Wasn't like an official read across Amerika right use. The man's got four yet Did they date officially remove the captain had been back the little bit away from from the cat had as a mass got, if not entirely, and I think that they ve kind of like doktor ceases books are not like the focal point of the Red across Amerika campaign like were right and then last year millennia Trump made the news when she gifted libraries very Doktor, Seuss books,
in the librarian refuse that gift, and so they are steeped in racist propaganda caricatures and harmful stereotypes. I don't know that. All is necessarily true. Is it yeah? You know I think that might have been a little too harsh. While I mean it If I'm right to know the only thing that I've seen that could be pointed to in his work like his book was the each was the reference in key and drawing of the chinese guy. Yes, in his first book to think I saw it on Mulberry Street. I didn't see anything else. I saw some prince that maybe the cat, the hat, was supposed to be black face, but I I saw that one place, right nowhere else, it seemed to be as earlier work, not as children's books, and I didn't see any racist propaganda that head there was hit in the books. If anything, the books that you would. The library right, I don't know a title she gave would have been. The more progressive
yes, she didn't go there and say here: look: here's the old jack, o Lantern, there's a really dirty stuff college, humor, racist cartoons and yet to say that his work was steeped in racist propaganda that, when talking about the children's books as Agri, is not act, right. What I'm one I'm trying to figure out as it is that librarian hip to something we don't know about right or or not I am very curious to know like if we didn't dig quite deep enough, I'm a little surprised, because you know us I want to know if we're missing something here for sure I found an article or they are just asking a lot of professionals into is literature what they thought about all this, because I am a big dummy. You one another figure: the stuff out of my own in any way. She's a professor of children's lit Vanderbilt said this just every author illustrator. I think theatre geyser was a product of his time and we should not judge him by today's standards, but we must evaluate his that we decide to share with children using today
does a really great point. Yet we cannot wallow in our own nostalgia when we make choices for the books we share with young children there simply too many outstanding books available, especially also of the books there, raising. Our kids honours its new to them right of its. If it is steeped in raising propaganda that were not realizing, were sharing or perpetuating than yeah. That shouldn't be the case, and it makes the great point that in the nineteen twenties and thirties. It was the exception American who broke out at mole right and was very progressive in. I wish he would have been one of those, but he wasn't yeah, and I think that one of the reasons why is there such a cognitive dissonance when you find the stuff out is because that's what you think of doctors is based on his work here that, like he would be that kind of guy bright he was human. His work is larger than him bright. His eye, what it is in the case with despite everything it seems like yeah I mean I don't want. This did tend to your reading of how the Grinch stole
less than a year, although another thing that he was called out on one's was his some it. There was no female protagonists in any of his books, either again a product of the time He was a man writing about little male characters, but he went and created a daisy headed Maisie after that right. So he so again his books became were progressive further on in his career and he handled things like segregation and discrimination like with this niches the butter battle book was a clear arms race, a kind of a haunting book that ends without any resolution with both sides, the UK's in the zoo, safe. Without any resolution with both sides, the UK's in the Xerox. I think with their bombs pointed at one another, and it doesn't it's not like. Lived happily ever after. It's like what's gonna happen here,
and then his last book that he wrote and publish while he was alive was o the places. You'll go right had no idea was published ninety nine you to do. Any about it, so it was not. It was his last, but There was published while he's alive. It's also stop selling book. So some of these Books have been around for decades longer than other places yoga, but other places you'll go is top selling book because its give two grads everything. There's a new batch of graduates. Yet who get oh the places, you'll go as a gift and like ten million copies, have been some cause. It's about like your future. What a way to say, I don't like doing things and taking risks in like trying stuff, and you can do it and it'll be hard and you're going to run into two problems. But you know you You you're a good person and you're going to make good choices, and I have a story about us area. So last night
I was talking to you me and I was like just out of nowhere. I'd like this. You know that oh the places you'll go was only published in nineteen ninety, but it's Dr Seuss is greatest selling book and she just looked at me kind of like a little flabbergasted like. Why would you that doesn't go we're doing a doctor, Seuss Episode tomorrow and she's. Like that's right. Weird I'll, be right back she went and do our bedroom and came back out with a copy of all the places. You'll go and said this has been under your pillows, he said I was going to give you see you tomorrow for the last episode of the end of the world thou, but I just happened to bring it up the day before that crazy here that those really surprising and how things work out. But I read it as recently as last night am like. This is an amazing, Zita first it's an amazing book article, I read Said that somebody, some somebody said like you, can tell that he knew this was the last book there. That was gonna be published when he was alive that he wanted this to be as his swan song interesting
I would not be surprised talking about his a more progressive views and sort of catching up with it. I'm if either Helen and or Audrey as them Women behind the man were weren't helping him along in that respect, sure and saying, like ie get with it. Oh, oh I like for changing his views. Maybe I thought that is where I could totally see that visa, because if you think about it, Helen Palmer came into his life. The old idea I could see her having an influence on him. He passed away. Finally of cancer. September twenty fourth, nineteen, eighty one and eighty seven- and I remember this because that was a rough weak. In college, and he and MILES Davis died about five or six days apart. Oh really- and I just remember- be unlike man- this is one of those tough once near produce my age. They were be barbours and children's book readers.
Things I got one last thing for you about doctors, Susi anything else, and I got one more thing to know. First, ok I'll go first. He was a variation chain smoker, ah interesting, so much so that even back the fifties and sixtys. He knew he need delay off, sometimes so winning the delay off of smoking. He will to take. He would take up the corn Cobb Pipe that he kept turnips then any time you wanted to smoke rather than light it. He would put a water dropper in there and then, when the turn of seed started to sprout, he would grow. Go back to cigarettes words, yes, and I fully understand that he would a little caneback, concur, identified turn of seeds and then, rather than light it he would put to sea dropper Imperia puff on it, but nothing. Go and urges all just mental of oral fixation and then, after about three days of doing this, the seeds would would sprout Germany and he be like ok, I can go back to cigarettes now her suit,
about three days off of cigarettes and he used the crop of turnip greens, as is his indicator. I thought you were gonna say that that went on to feed like the children and pour neighborhoods ass. You hate, turnips kid scimitar Turning to great, I agree a route vegetable man myself, so my best thing. In two thousand seven, a federal judge received a heartbeat egg in the mail from an inmate imprison protesting his diet in prison. And the federal the federal judge rendered a decision, and apparently it was, worked at the latter, can't remember even what it was about, but he rendered a decision thusly. I do not like eggs in the file this James I'm your head. I do not lie them in any style. I will not take them for wider boiled. I will not take them poached or broiled. I will not take them softer, scrambled d, an argument. Well rambled fan. I am of the
get hand destroy that egg to day, to day to day I say without delay, and they threw him out of court fire because he was drunk nodded I wonder what came out of that. I don't know, and it date it gave very little information about what the case was even on like because there is no really. This is a serious complaint for focusing on their home help me, oh goodness, If you, I know more about doctors, sue Skull research and make your own decisions about the man, the work, all that stuff K agreed and since I said that it is time for listen around now. This is our last show the year. So no lesser mail is just our time of the year to thank everyone. Here in Europe. This is the end of ten years. Gives or its role in the middle April is beginning and end of a year right, but the end of our calendar year, and we just thank everyone for hang it in for this long with us, is amazing,
we're still allowed to do this job. You hang in there no pay off eventually hither and we're gonna keep at it forever forever and, on a personal note, a very happy birthday to my dear sweet wife. You me, and I birthday birthday you me and thank you. Eyes for being with us. For yet another year will see you next year by a more or less and thousands of other tapping. Hast outlets icon I myself am hosting a new podcast series called first contact each week will have on Stan emotional conversations about what it means to be human and how technology is changing, that from engineers Coating Botz deserved the dating apps. To intimate conversations with tat pounders will tackle the ethical issues of the future. Now that tax,
just another layer of our skin. Listen a first contacted lorry single made on Iheart Radio Outline Apple podcast, more worrying at your PA cabins.
Transcript generated on 2020-01-02.