Here's the thing: saving money with Geico was almost better than playing pick up basketball, because there's always that guy who joined your game, He never passes the rock he constantly bricks theories and who completely you and then put his hands up and say no foul, no foul with Geico, it's easy to switch. Save on car insurance. No, the vacant fake, an ankle sprain because you're absolutely exhausted so which in save with Geiger it's almost better than sports. Well, to stop. You should now run house networks, not welcome the podcast on George poured through Trouser Richard Bright, there's Jerry Missis.

You said that was great guy sunlight share these MIT painted Josh T Josh hoarsely dog. Does he do other? Do he factors in this big time later, on I don't even know about that and got them up my sleeve really really. This is kind of fun. I don't know how much we're gonna do that gives people are probably like. Stop it right now can't be increasing. Do it, I ve done it if we could have just voted in this whole thing. You know. Maybe we should maybe we should maybe from this moment, for we should decide between the rest of the episode yeah starting now. Let's sabotage,

careers, yet an inch over this fancy intra. I think we just did it, but ok well, was gettin away back machine. Then my friend, ok, we're not They therefore than ouragan skimming short trip. Let's go back to a sum of ninety. Ninety eight boom, I'm unite. The club were hanging out we're drink in the roman coke. You can find it in the club and where we're dancin we're getting down and prevent the shares still fully believe it's a heart The hard part jam- that's really in summary it summer time- and you can tell us how the club and I've got on my mind, my shop, it I'm just like I'm out for another aspect that track it, I'm wearing a suit through much so

Actually, how did you not well yeah? The third level really stands out. No we're in the club were german and chairs. Song is on and something happens at about thirty five seconds into the song, and you and I are dislike, flowed daddy. Did you just here that we changed everything changed the whole tone of the club like that like ok. Now, it's Bang India. I look here because of a little something called auto tune. What sounded like a little electronic glitch was very purposeful. Was the first time the auto had been used in this way, so what Josh is out of tune-

the Kurdish up here? Can we do the rest? The episode in the club, when I just keep those roman scopes, gammon? Ok, so that will meet. Let me start with the second right, because the way you describe it, you made a sound like everybody's, like oh sure, just use, daughter to now now everybody said what was that yeah that was or some other some people like. What was that? Don't ever do that again measure, but most people were like, while shared just released, her biggest takeover entire career as a pretty long career yeah. She just came back like that. Just established, come back was this track yet, and it actually became one of the greatest best. Singles of all time yet- and I think I mean it would have been a probably a big song anyway, but I think most definitely Otto Tune kicked it into the strategy, gave it to the extra something s man it became part of the

If everyone is talking about, so everybody went to her producer and say dude. How did you that we want to know how to do that he's a voter. Yet he lied. Lie, relied big time. He lied in person. Do other producers light in interviews he's alive. Had lied about how he made that track, because he wanted to keep it to himself because it was so huge in it became so huge that at first out of tune was called the sheriffs ACT, yeah even the company that produced auto tune and Terry's, which will talk about a minute called it in their instructional book the share effect. They probably still do they need they don't mention it any longer really near by the the Zaragoza. It was a huge. Steel and this guy Leyden Captain under wraps and for many years it was very mysterious. Yet, let's action,

if you live under a rock, let's go ahead, play that clip of the very first thirty five seconds into that song were share, says can't break through, and you are right there during the music changed from that point forward. Okay, so for hours. What what sky where producer was saying, I was voter, vote cutter, something has been around for a long time. A few Virilis and any PETE Frampton fear Frampton anything. Do you feel like we do here a whole long, guitar solar, wherever he breathing into a tube connected do is guitar yet is electrifying his voice what could have been around for a very long time here, but there are different ways of

In that way, that was definitely the though the tube effect through the guitar, but you can also just use it to me now make your voice robotic, like back sure, to turn tables in a microphone bright or MR robotic with sticks, yeah, but all differ these it this thing this sounded different, the share effect. It was a little different sure and I wonder how this guy talked his way out of the way the lie. Yeah, I mean like. If, if, if our producers, like ok, we'll, show me how you did it on bulk odor, if you like, over here and then just like, ran out of the room again taxes out of it, I think he's just another lying music produce for her can use dislike I'll get my busted ok. So,

apparently along the way people figured out here there, what this guy did in ninety ninety eight with believe and they started using it themselves very, very sparsely right, so Josh. What is ordered him to your question? Is I'm gonna? Keep asking it so out of tune? Is a plugin originally released a ninety? Ninety seven for the audio Bidding software protests yeah it's a software peace that allows you and the original intent and how it still mostly used is to pitch correct. Singers voice right, so when you, when you are, I go into the studio to record those album several never released, but we disregard for fine. We have fired notes there are not me I've perfect pitch. I hit fight notice here there I dont perfect,

everybody. Does it's a normal thank her for most of eternity? Music producers would say blue eyes. Chairman I need another. Take. There was a great take, but he had a couple of minutes gimme another take just like that. One and frankly, the earth finishes Scotch, put out a cigarette and say you get one more shine head what was the Joe? You don't even see spinal that did you get the violence ought. Finally, ok, but I remember any Frank Sinatra: Julia there was and burn O Kirby is the limo driver. He sees talks about Sammy Davis is book. Yes, I can pass, and this is what they should call is. Yes, I can, as long as Frank says, it's ok Frank, called the charts for all those guys hire. You remember that so and could sing or more take, and this could be like take twelve or fifteen or twenty area, depending on like how much how much they person was feeling it

anger, was stealing it at the time and would be happy to hang around. The studio was keeping the singer there at the studio. As long as that, was around visiting her singer was happy to hear that one, try all more triangular jugs. Maybe ok, or, if there's like really good, can evolve. Sure who knows I gotta stay for the skills, so the editor, then the music producer would then take all these different tracks and would go through, and I can't imagine how awful this will be. Take the best part of this track, edited together with the best part of that track here and like we're talking like pre digital air, so like their spicy together teeth sure from what I understand, get right to get the best possible complete, take right he's together from maybe I found a right. Ok, that's that's what they did all of a sudden and ninety. Ninety seven

there's this new software. There just runs through a take and says: oh, I see what note there what key the singer singing in, but this this particular note to the little out, so I'm going to nudge it into the key that the singer was going for and now the sudden one take is all it takes. Yeah I mean what I did was cut down on studio time, which a super expensive year, which was very appealing as naked churn out songs that are more rapid rate in a cheaper rate, and it was, it was a little sort of a secret. Or that they didn't intend to like get out to the public, some of it they wanted everyone and other stuff. No, it was meant for professionals yeah and basically, with you, sir, it was the the musical audio equivalent of cosmetics. Yes, doctor

it was invented by Doktor, Harold, Andy Hildebrand, and he likened it make up, and the New Yorker likened to my getting rid of a red eye and a photograph exactly it was just you use just enough. So that you can tell it there, but it makes for a more pleasant overall composition, night, we share her donor. What shares producers had done here is take this thing in used it to the nth degree. Yes, supposedly it was just a joke and share was like. I love that, but that's like enough. That's an urban legend or, if that's all from when I read the upper producer, she was she wanted like come. She had heard like my telephone effect that she was interested in using like she wanted something- and I guess the producer had stumbled upon that and dumb pleaded for both like you're, not gonna like this, but would listen to this weirdness she's, like that. I want that night.

That's what I read well. I think that, with a view to her giving the green light than that was truly like or site, like a masterful move by sheer right, you know well chereas lot aforethought, you know they say. Don't don't doubt chair and share. Has a lot of foresight never bet against share yet so when she did make their decision, it seems like you said it changed everything, and will we talk enough about this, but we're gonna take a break and then come back and talk more about it. Right after this is, here's the thing, saving with Geico was almost better than playing pick up basketball, because there's always that guy who joins your game he never passes the rock he constantly bricks theories and who completely

you and then put his hands up and say no foul, no foul with Geico. It's easy to switch. Save on car insurance. No the vacant fake, an ankle sprain because you're, absolutely exhausted so which in save with Geiger it's almost better than sports your view stop here What I found most interesting about this while researching what was wet Andy Hildebrand did before he did this. He was a musician. He was a but played flute professionally. He was a young teenager, even went to University of Illinois GO and the line. I knew

scholarship, yet he chose to work for Exxon Mobile for seventeen years. Looking for oil yeah, you crazy! The two weren't too terribly far apart right now, as we will find out there is a professional flattest classically train fires, a good one from what I understand. Loudness flute, yes and he went to college to get it electrical engineering degree. I think and basically went when he went to work for the oil companies. It was an oil exploration and he figured out a programmer Edith designed to software that when you set offered an explosive charge underground, it measured the pitch of stuff of the sound waves that that were created right as they travel through rock different types of rock. We adjust the pitch. Basically, in the software like analyze, the picture was coming through

and could create a sub surface map of the rock below, and oil companies have long known that this type of rock is associated with oil and type of rock is not maybe, if I natural gas in this type of rock. So with this guy, creating an audio visual map of the sub surface area, oil companies, honour, headed just drill and drill and hope that they found raw oil. He would say this is a pretty pretty great place to drill because this kind of rock is there that's right. It's called auto correlation and it saved Exxon Ale of money, and he somehow made a lot of money. I thought I was gonna be things were like example, just like thanks. You work for us joint here's, your forty five thousand dollars here, but apparently he earned enough to retire by the age of forty. Thanks to this innovation, and in the We ninety nine ass. He got out of the oil business and

on days like it's just the popularity he found it, in terrorist audio technologies, and I count on your Silicon Valley and Scots Valley. California, and I think still they only have about ten employees and it's pretty small operation. Turn around him in his ideas and in yes, and he is the main. One of the first things he invented was something called infinity, which is a programme that- where you get the loop samples run over and over, like seamlessly faintly. That was unnecessary. Think that another oh yeah, think about we're talking like early nineties, those like the airway, eight acid, have revolution yeah, but I didn't realize I get he made it easier. Probably is my guess: yes, I think he enable that he enable techno is the impression I have really yeah interest,

Looping samples together seamlessly well, but you get already do that. What I'm saying is he clearly found a way to do it better and more efficiently right, he didn't invent leaving. No, he made a better. Yet another thing he did was invented. The microphone modular modeling is a big thing. In music, you can get a guitar ample fires. That model debates basically means at eight mother, amp, modeling aperture use any mark. Is it's not very good, but it models there's like twelve different classic absent models, suppose But he did all the modeling microphone, which means you can mimic classic microphones or like up her Monica MIKE and Vintage MIKE's, like the Elvis Presley that cooler and make sure that was on there

Is it the silver kind of round rectangular want knows, got one on his desk and that's the says you without this Presley. Well I mean just the music of that time. I get but always picture Elvis. I you know I mean I can see that you have. You ever seen his grandson by the way, quick Cyber know. His name is quick signed by his quick, sidebar brush. It's weird name here, but you know, LISA Murray was his mom barrier. That was very funny by the way. He just look him up. I think. What's his name, we can't murmurs name is last name is the

his name for least memories first husband, is he she had em with ok, yeah, dislocate, Elvis Presley grandson. It is her repeated, looks exactly like Elvis it at age, like scary, scary, early somewhere, Kenny thing that I dont know disease attitude that I do now if he thinks he probably zadig, probably because ninety of singers apparently is ordered him. That's even higher than that. Really about that ninety percent admit it yeah yeah the thing about auto tune where you denied is it even though you're totally aware that everyone uses it in article were apparently this one producer said that he's worked with two artist that have haven't used to everyone else has never Nikko case in Nellie for time

in an apparently later after that Nellie for terror released a single that had tons of out of tune on legal cases seems She may be the only artist in the world who hasn't out of tune either suddenly or to the nth agree a well that certainly not true, I think, they're plenty of indy artists, but if you're talkin, you should read this verge article, it basically lays it out like no everyone uses this. Even it is so apparently producers, Tony, to thoroughly tell the ban that its being used right then, because there's alive function. Yes, so that the Mai others or the headphones set the band is hearing, is being run through auto tune, so what their hearing is already corrected. So they think they just did a perfect yeah, I'm just wary of any time. Someone says out of twenty, million singers. One person doesn't that's just very dubious claim. I don't know we're talking music industry

especially when a lot of people are making their own music in their own homes. Well, that's another thing: they're, not part of the pot machine right. They don't have stats on that, and I am saying that that sounds like a lot of garbage to me. I'm sure more than one person doesn't use after just one so auditing came about. Apparently, this is that the tale, because of the dinner they held a brain, was that he was having lunch with a sales rep and the wife said something funny like hey Andy. Can you once you know, than to make me sing in tune and he went programme. Idea tat the great held it. We should have auditing that of my recurred. Maybe maybe it was maybe it's happened in so he said, you know what, if I can tell jet clamp it where the oil is that I can make using on into any did

and he did he created out of tune in the kind of mention how it works. Basically, it takes it takes that take of singers song. It takes the vehicles, oh yes on and you select what key year singing in and auditing goes through and makes this map of this the audio of the vocal track- and it goes through this one's a little flat. Well, lower whatever and its nudges these things into tune in India, the key that is supposed to be in so all of the notes that the singer hits in that take are within the correct key, meaning that they all sound great. It's a perfect, take great we're in the key. There is its in the original tone and infliction of the artist ready. So you can't tell it

no and there's. Actually, if you look, if you look at the auto tune product demo, videos yeah, it's amazing so, there's a there's an an automatic version where, like it's just you select he and my auditing do it's thing. It does a pretty great job. Yet one of the one of the ways that it does this is it adds like milliseconds. Pauses, integrating notes, there's little spaces between notes, which gives it a natural feel yeah if there's other selections that you can make like throat link, you can select how long the singers throat is- and you can do that. No by knows so, you can make the whole thing even more, naturally Basically, what you ve done is taught auto tune, how to stimulate a particular

nurse singing style and voice so that when in when it adjusts that no it does it within the same exact range that the singer would have done here, it correctly. It pretty amazing at events that are totally what wait when normal people in order to like you and me who are not in the music biz. We we think of this thing. That's called the zero. Option. Yes, and you know it was like a break and we'll explain what the zero function is right after this

we are living in complicated times, I'm seventy rule, MSNBC Anchor and NBC News corresponding in my new plug cast modern rules. I'm gonna be spending time unpacking. Some of the hair is of today's Tom. I decided I was moved to survive and survival coins, but equal board. They won't needs its american listening, subscribed. My new pod cast modern rules on Apple five test, the iron radio app. Wherever you get attacking the suspense It is clear that a leading me you're, gonna there are eight zero function that was

essentially, what the share effect was apparent. Yes,. No. No, no! No! No you to set up in your chair, like you about the armor China, then you go ahead, you do you talk about well, What does and in terms of the zero function is, is it gets rid of all of that space and, when shares voice changes, its immediate yeah. All of those notes go right up against each other here and it creates this robotic sounding voice here, there's no like rise its others. It's not like a what's the word. I'm lookin for its lack of it. Normal the broader that you would get threat, because in a normal of abroad, others whose pauses their space in between the no yet is with this its note, you know all pressed up against each other, yet impressed way and a zero function is what what it takes any spaces

between the notes and creates that robots and yet is. I think, attitude has a range of numbers so make it flow or seamlessly in when they took it all the way down to zero, which means there's nothing there yet be created that we are the fact that their like now share you listen to this. It's weird yeah she's, like I'd like weird, it's great baby. I hear number one hit my future, though you get about it. It's great baby There are now that there was Jack from mom willing, grace Oh, do you remember when he thought he was talking to a share, Impersonator Ojeda and he's like now? could turn back eating her. How to say a thing it correctly I thoroughly enjoyed, will embrace of great stuff the great that really well agreed

where are we will, if you were talking about the sheriff factory yeah and that's what it was called again and Tories called this zero function, the share effect for many years and dumb, and time remember her producer just kept lying in lying and lying here. We're time. Other producers independently figured out what he had done, that it uses zero function, which is a really obscure tool on a oft where sweet that not everybody knew about right. So it took some some brain parents and experimentation, but little by little, some producers figured it out. This one producer did array mix of the jail of song in use. Didn't he, I think, was the second person to use it publicly and that it four brief time it became known as the jailer effect of course,

anybody who uses without facing up to it at first in the early two thousands, it was called the whatever effect and there's this producer wrapper down in Florida, Ain T paint a boy in sea pain. He heard his jailer fatty love. He went on a mission to figure out what this was and he finally apparently took some years to figure it out. He finally figured out that it was the year of fact on this protein plugin and he started using it and just went crazy with it like us to this point. It was used to like twitter. It would maybe make a tracker of just a little weird over here, something like that. Yeah, he used it as often as it possibly could get basically said. The zero function and t pain are one and the same yet, and it became known as the t paint effect to really here, because when people ask him how he did it guess where he said

folk Oda. Did you really? Yes now? Yes, he did in four years he managed to make a mid, because the whole thing was in hip, hop or in part. If you wanted, this t paint effect, t pay needed the console, at least, if not produce your record I would like ten years after the share effect, even Obama, another I'd. I hear he managed to put off for years and years and years good for tee painters. What I say yes, you know now I mean he he apparently was. I come. I guess, on a plane, ride Usher was on the same plain and asked to speak to him and issues like I've. Gotta get something off my chest. You really screwed up music like big time. Well, payments like a bunch of money? Do innocent people seem to like it? So I'm not gonna stop Hildebrand has been vilified by many, and he said you know I I just make the car. I don't drive down the wrong side of the road yep. It's a great quote this, because a lot of people

Hate Otto Tune and the worst thing that happened to music. A lot of people like it and say when you use it for what it was for use for it can really help out casino. It's not like everyone uses all the time I'm sure some people need it way more than others, while even using it as a light. Cosmetic touch landfill. The brain originally designed for a lot of people say no, should we be doing that because if you go back and listen to things like Bob Dylan, where the beach for or just a lot of Original artists, they didn't use this kind of affecting the voice They sang in their recordings, made it through the studio. There were still flat let's hear their area, but it was their music, it was their voice, it was their vocals in these, and everyone came to know and love em, but now because everything is out of tune perfectly yet even the stuff that you don't you,

here? It's auto tomb because they're not using zero function, but just the fact that has been run through the otter tune. This stuff sounds really rough by comparison for a lot of people. Like all tunas rule. Music. It really music that people love for decades, because now by comparison, it seems rough well. It also like a good year, can tell things out of tuna has is weird ten equality that it doesn't sound natural, so I think it they'll be blow back and then a reversion back to older methods. Ok, I bet you jack White, has an audit and that's the most purists the pure guys No, he uses also to wear vocal effects on his stuff now, but as far as like that, he has asked him. He wouldn't bet it apparently this par for the course year, so with tee pain. If bring you back to the history of this, buy you a drink, so t pain really hit he's

huge, like he's just everything he dropped his just below and up all over the place, he's getting invited to consult and producer. None Kenya is album. Yeah ultimately had about it in every track at all to by the time he paying with their right near Have you heard his queen? A bohemian rhapsody live. Now is a good? Oh! No! Oh now it's of video that someone spliced of him and four billion Freddy Mercury, it's one of things have ever heard on assent on the stage are gonna taken up its terrible. Ok, I gotta see that he hits good so out the tea pain effect yeah, and if you wanted this effect, you had to have to pay world snoop dogs. As that's enough of that, our finally and he releases something called sensual seduction and it's what at a rat videos. You ve ever seen it's pretty good. There's a stir,

Why then it so? You know I love it hum so snoop releases this using the t, paint effective great degree, but he didn't consult with tee pain, to paint everything to do with this record. So snoop can open the floodgates. Saying fears want to use this, go use it, but within if you watch the video winced snoop is doing like the the M T paint affected, orators, stuff, yeah he's actually gotta too. Owing to a synthesizer to make it look like he's using a voter, interesting weird now that, as we like in this video yeah, but anyway he's here that wasn't marijuana. Smoking divine may I may have been there. I think about, but snoop changed everything in, in that he took tea, paying out of the equation and really open the floodgates for anybody in everybody to use the stuff simultaneously. Cheesy was trying to those floodgates and push all of it back in ya. Think Jazzy clearly jumped the shark

in point. You know and major add brands are making ads using the latest and greatest that its years late. First of all- and that means it is definitely jumped the shark. And in two thousand nine Wendy's had frosty posse commercial, where a gang of office workers of both it out auto tuned, rhymes, while searching for a frosty sino. Remember that idea I know about. I went watched it. Of course. How is it pretty great? It's what you think it is pretty great its awesome. Now it's terrible! and thou. Jazzy apparently saw this and was in re and so he rode a song called the away death of Otto Tune. I know we're facing a recession, but the music, while making gonna make it the great depression, get back to wrap your tea pain into much. Let's call it that's common someone out, yeah hard but other auto tune.

Put it in the news was a big you to pay our young man they have on the bed intruder song yell at some must play clip from that from two thousand to earn. It was a local footage from Huntsville Alabama of Antwerp Dodson delivering is an awesome human being here about neighbourhood intruder and someone auditing that Gregory Brothers did, that's right with you there evident. Why have you not recently now be but again that was in two thousand ten. I think that even count I had a pretty short shelf life

there are still doing it was what you say: the Gregory Brothers, the Brooklyn Soul band. They started doing auditing the news yeah and they would take the nuisance, is out of tune it and turn it night, just produce it over produce it They did that with the venture to song and became the number one. Video on Youtube of all two thousand ten. I looked the original. The original video has a hundred and twenty million views right now. Yes, pretty impressive stuff. At the same point like now, origin has become parity of itself. Yes, it's it's being used to finance shears progression, something start someone uses that artistically. Someone comes along and over uses it than ever He starts over use. It then went makes a commercial using Newsweek He gets around a writing an article about eleven years after we recorded podcast on it, and then the thing find

I fear and then fifteen or twenty years after that it becomes hip again. Yes, that's the progression. So point. There were, though, now chuck it's not so common dry man, it's not his country's gc would like to have you think? No, because he came out with this, the motto tune track and like two thousand nine still around very much and now it's getting to the point where it flight gum diverge, and I come over the other article I rather both on this podcast page if there are to be believed, their credible sources and they certainly seem like it from these articles? You there's a there's this growing question of his attitude here to stay. People have certainly compared to the initial reaction that people had to the electric guitar sure quite different from the original guitar and people. I took a lotta getting used to like when Bob Dylan, when Electric

lotta people in like that Newport, but then look at what happened now with the electric guitar alot of people tried different stuff with it and it became a standard. Some people are wondering if out of tune is going to fulfil the same destiny. I think most hoping that it does not yet well I mean sweetening vocals is nothing new like reverb is a tried and true thing for years embraced. Does Sweden vocals, I thought that was always used to like make it weird now it is sort of like gives it a echoing, like you're sitting in a big, empty church, holler something, but it makes it sweetens. It doesn't like correct anything, but when I say sweetens, it just makes it sound a little better, get reverb a great to write the point of his art official yeah. It's not natural yeah that its they try to replicate like

and a big empty echo. We always here with an effect in their work in another argument in favour of auditing that are seen as simply taking a human voice in recording it automatically make artificial, like if they're, not there in the room with you singing to you at that moment. Anything else is artificial. True, so what's the problem so just to let people now I put out to tax during the episodes musician, friends quite now I texted Lucy Wainwright our body, the other, jerry from our tv, Sir she's, not answered, which me feces auditing getting buddy, Joey, Sierra from other Henry Clay. People had formerly of Henry Clay people now bakers, and he said I think there were a few

Nice is an ice on one of our old records where we did some pitched correcting, but that's it. I think maybe so definitely he's writing demand that I said the thank you for being forthright Joey. Good guy are you gonna thing else about it, yeah, just a really quick gum. This is from a great website, then Arthur that are essentially computer programs. They does have the most opportune people, they have tea pain, Kasza. Chris Brown, marine, five, like peace, Deaf Buck Pair Selden through forgot, actually had a song. The cast of Glee, Katy, Perry and number one was our city who I don't even know that if there is a huge outcry, apparently among glee, fans for glee to stop using somewhat out of tune, I think to deal as Iraq. While these are actors, Zuleika were and there's another theirs,

scandal with the UK got talent. Something weird like that. I am aware they were using a lot of auditors for the audition, so come home. I go anyway, that's very surprising list, so this has been grow. The old man I don't feel like we ve been grumpy. We haven't like condemned it outright no legal case, Cheeseman She condemns it outright Emily. I haven't agreement about legal case. We could both marry her that she was ever available to us. She's right behind you. Oh my god,. So we have a very well known finish up here at the author. I don't jump the gun. Thinking you don't have anything else about oddity. Now, she's teasing. We have a special listener: mail with guests. Well, I'm finished. First, ok, ok was

check this out, anything it's the end, and if you want to know more about auditing, you can type those words into the search bar asked efforts that camp and that this article, I have to say by the way, was the most if article about Otto Tune on the internet? How about that is a good one, so you can go look that up and since they said definitive, it's time for listener meal and its special. Like to accept this right. Today we got a joint, lesser male, too ourselves into Holly and Tracy from stuff you, MRS History Class, Yes, we're gonna bring them there. We're gonna, read the email, we're gonna talk about its implications, start now so without Do we actually have Holly and Tracy of stuff you mustn't in history class. With that I and Tracy we have actually not with us she's with this spirit in voice from Boston. I now it's.

Its pre interesting, had come them through your headphones, but the other person somewhere else cut off, and this is how you go through the show. No right, he ass. We also have Laker an online. You know we have a google hang out where we both are so see each other as well with its need. We should have done that see and hear what their video image Bulgaria or like a hologram over the difficulty. It's true, I think the fur you would have a picture of me like our own boss? Oh well, I do have a picture of you may have the wallets the first thing we should do to read out the email here and then we will discuss like adults about that. Why so like it said already set it up that we both got an email from a listener. And she says the following in this- is for a mom and alliance? hey guys and Gaza. She didn't say that, of course, I listed below you should read it broke

Josh, Checkers, Holly and Tracy and, of course, a hello to Jerry and no yeah. I'm a social or from Portland Oregon with a passion for human equity and respect, one of the original members of the S why escape army, a recent listener to MR history avenged for about five months before I got all caught up. So how about that I am concerned about something I've heard a few times on the history by gas, and I was wondering if you guys would be willing to get together. We are and look into something different. Though my curiosity, congestion chuck receive corrections. They thank people for being nice infrequently ask people not to be jerks when directing them. When Holly and Tracy talk about corrections they receive, they ask people to be nice and have referred to corrections several occasions as hate mail. My concern is that listeners may be more disrespectful. The Hollingford, because they are women, and even if listeners are route

doesn't check they may rain it in when making correction because they are men could be completely or face. But if I'm right, if you like, the discrepancy should be addressed on the pot cast, raise awareness about how people treat men and women differently and even to as people's tendency to feel protected by the anonymity of the internet and savings on Monday when citizens face and so manner we did talk about it email and now we're gonna talk about it like regular, human folks and Tracy really has a wealth of information because of her job and what you know she's been responsible for in the past answer yeah. I was part of the management team of the website for several years before I started actually being on a podcast and forged a chunk of that time. Most of the pine castors reported to me. So, even though I wasn't managing the Pike has programme, I was sort of keeping tat On Itunes reviews for everybody, and there was a definite definite trend in that

broadcast that had women on them got disparate? slightly more vicious comments about their voices sounded like versus the package with men on them, which got less of that So this is news to me massage any on the internet. Opposing and learn about this beautiful. In spite of the fact that no, I can't and I know Tracy you like pointed some he's out before for us. It's it's like. You will get the male every once in a while, but it's kind of easy to dismiss, because even if it is directed at us, it's not Thirdly directed at our gender, whatever its personal or even if it is personally it's it's done. It's it's just dumb stuff. It's easy did not take personal, even when it meant to be personal sure, but

to me speaking, is like a white male age. Eighteen, forty nine, you know so I I can imagine that, like when someone attacks you just just based on your agenda or even worse, if they're coming after you, and they don't even realise of there being driven by the sum this disdain for your gender ever has to make it a lot harder to justice. To dismiss Yeah How you can go, I would say, for me I mean I I am lucky and that I really give very few dams about where most people think like unless you're sitting in my lap or paying my paycheck lake, the great, if you like me, but if you don't that's cool, do lately everybody to your thing but eventually like the way I'm flying build up in it or not. It's not so much that I like heartbroken are traumatized, but it just where she down after a while, you like. Why am I doing that? That is something it more. This crap

The law- and we definitely have what we have been called slurs based on our gender before ovary- have been called the sea word over the pirate serious right, yeah, unbelievable Well, I told you about what when discussing the e mail in our email conversation, I told you about the person he wrote to us and said they didn't understand how I could be in the same room with Holly without strangling her. Like that's the kind of stuff that people will write, us would be really awful, but we do get off one of them, but I dont think people are consciously being massage monistic but they're talking to us than about us in a very gendered way. So people tell us that we found shrill, or we sound bossy and those words that people would use to describe men. Most of the time will make his men are those that body raggedy Ann the articles that had come out lately about especially vocal fry and other things that people,

besides about women's voices that they dont generally criticise about men's wasted every single time, I read it and I am like I could have written that about my job and my experience being a woman talking on the internet so which one arm which, when his home, though the most like one, that's just a direct personal attack or the ones there or the person is being unconsciously, misogynistic, which will be to me, would seem more entrenched. Yet to me the second one is worse and its especially where it, because a lot of the implicitly gendered criticism that we get is also from women Foley. I was gonna the hardest part yeah, that's the hardest part for me to deal with yeah when their real specific, for example, like the person who wants me to be strangled at the end of the day. I, like, he's working through its own stuff. We, I have really have very little to do with, as I may have been the trigger there. You know cause this little outrage bomb, but really

has very little to do with me that I think almost a hundred percent of the time. That is the case that these are people who have their own gripes and life in her. Probably angry unhappy people, yes, that then, as Tracy said, when you get those ones that are like they dare not even conscious of how its playing out gear, you realize how much it is a bigger sort of systemic social problem here, because most of those people are not evil, they don't intend to be massaging mistake there, not conscious that their separating the two genders and judging them differently in different criteria. So yeah. Those are, as Tracy sent a little more disturbing. Can she realised that it's kind of like the silent creep, that under lays everything? Absolutely we do get a lot of emails that our great from people who are great and the majority of the email that we get is great, so it MIKE I dont want to make it sound. Like every person he writes to us is awful and we talk about correct.

On the absurd. A lot of times from people who write at the inn and everything is fine and everything's very respectful, said to me a correction is you said this person died and nineteen eighteen, but really it was nineteen, twenty seven, that's a correction of that's fine then will also get ones that are like. I can't believe you didn't even bother to let this be completely buttered it. I don't know why you don't even put more thought into what you're doing, because it's really important that you represent yourself the well and that's what I'm like bats hate mail. We get those year. We get a lot of those, but I never feel, like those are alike, have anything to do with me. Under you know that in those cases absolutely I may we get there same exact emails or it's like you, you guys are total idiots like how. How could you drop the ball this badly? And it's like. We basically said exactly what you're saying we decided,

we differently it definitely does a warrant, this kind of reaction. You know that I, like my eye, I, why do you think there is a gender biases engendered Why is it worth for you guys being women? Do you think not in a common history of the world like out. How long do you read me like, even even beyond cometh, likewise the internet so geared toward the heating women? I mean: what's what's the deal with that, because it is urgent, understanding the idea behind it.

Globally. Angry man is my guess, a. I think it's if super complex right, there's. No one simple answer like some of it is that we have reached an age where the disparity in terms of gender equality has shrunk at the same time that a lot of people have this outlet readily available to them. So there's progress being made, but there are also the people who are still kicking and screaming, as they get dragged into a future they're, not comfortable with area, but then there's also just a thing that again, I don't think people are even conscious of it where it is new for many people and even people,

our younger and have may be grown up in a more kind of old school, traditional environment, the household or community, where they're, not even conscious of wide there more upset at women. There's just something about women. You know, sharing knowledge or being asserted, were being confident that just rankles them and they don't even register that it's because it's a they just another showman. What that person, I hate and it's something there just not used to, and they haven't kind of made the the mental a customization too. Oh sometimes, people that aren't knew tat stuff to say as well right Do you think the same experiences extrapolate able under race as well? Oh yeah, why me? I know it is, but I mean: is it almost like a step by step? Do you think, I think, already similar yeah, what speaking like us, the as a white person in a room of widely

we were on the phone right now, that's the worst days I have ever had managing our Facebook page our days when we talk about something that has to do with systemic racism and will we'll get a flood of similarly implicitly racist comments from people who really dont know that the you that they just put out there is races like that's sort of the same thing like a lot of people do things that are misogynist, not really consciously being massage earnest. That's it comes out and are not consciously aware of it, and that we see the same thing on our facebook posts in subjects that are related to raise really pretty often so at the end of the day, when you guys get a bunch of these say, I noticed a particularly bad day. Wait. What do you do? I mean do battle this teaches brush off me like these guys are idiots and whether they are you're. Not they are going to be dragged into the future way against their will.

Indeed you a combination of both or do you look at your status as a perennial top twenty podcast and save the early? Who cares what they say, because we're really good at what we do because we're very six. I do a combination of things I have kind of a library of links about vocal fry and whenever anyone rights directly to us to complain about vocal fry, I kind of send them hey. Why don't you listen to this? This American segment all Vocal, bright, yellow, anyone's IRA glass has vocal fry the entire segment, but nobody complained that him about it felt like a specific, we will address that. I will specifically addressed things that people say on our Facebook page in public, because I feel like our, RO, as a pine cast about history, does not you'd allowing people free rein to be racist in public and and have that not be challenged. But when it comes to the like, but you

Holly, and I got that was that was so bad pretty recently. That was the person. He too was basically advocating me murdering Polly. Was actually travelling. I went down to the hotel bar and how to drink. You go out a book and tried to chill yeah. I tried chill out it further I think that if everything well thank you both for addressing this I'm sorry we didn't solve this problem here in this at this listen avail saying thank you for having found a share. Of course. If anyone out there institutional land is not checked out stuff, you miss in history class. You definitely should because it is awesome in as are both of you and I dont want to strangle you, but I want to hug your next year in the sand. I do any sort of Peter Rabbit now she don't move. No, no

thanks for coming in, and we should do this more often you now Harry said, We should have a whole show where we just get together do roundtable stuff. We can have you happy POW Party time That would be spying. Oh, it If you have something to say about all this, we're sure you will. We want to hear from you. You can tweets asset as well as Kate, podcast begin tweets step. You miss in history class at at least in history. You can join us on Facebook, dot com slashed. If he should know you can join stuffing the history closet miss in history may spectacular lash mess. Then you make it easy. But what about you now? How did they get intensity? History pack ass, a house of work stack up. You can hit us up it's the park. Has the house the words I commented is always join our home on the web stuff. You should know dot, com and miss

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