Everybody knows how many whacks Lizzie Borden gave her mother and father with that axe, but there is plenty about the infamous double homicide that remains unresolved, like who actually did it. Travel into the mystery of Lizzie Borden in this episode.
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Five hundred welcome to stop. You should now run housekeeper. It's got a monk. Another on Josh chose the reach of bright and and
he's back wow. Look at that fine looking lady over their heads are going to see
my answer since, like old times, tat knowledge is quietly weeding out. He is like a cat,
no speaking and other border window scratching at the state of no
Day, the reign of terror is over done yet not been deposed. By doing so now it's not
sitting there or nobody sitting. There happened more timescales, comfortable at least four years. I wait a minute that we can do that here, I'm out of here.
Lungs airy so welcome Bulgaria, and now we already said congratulations.
Little Ynez, but who just keeps getting cuter cured? And yet I know things are going great, so we're happy to have you back, I'm willing, as you're doing very quiet, stay that way, she's disruption in her little swing. I would
Having babies, and here they shut up, will never go out for sure good energy. I just feel bad form because it gets pretty game
in here yeah. Even after, like fifteen minutes,
a couple hours. I can state that actually I was gonna need us. Yeah did
the other at the time a shower dimensions likes it. It's fantastic. I know it's terrible
I wonder if that and that's great for the young and a figure that tonight that explains the sheen on your face. Ok, we're here Jerry's! Here I smell: let's do it since you do smell Chuck. I have
say at least at the very least, I'm grateful that we don't happen to be in full river Massachusetts on the morning of August. Fourth, eighteen, ninety two, because that morning was particularly particularly
hot yeah unseasonably heart. It was over a hundred degrees Fahrenheit by the time noon,
around here and that figures heavily in the case of Lizzie burden in her.
Forty and forty one wax, which were more like eighteen and nineteen and eleven. Yes, are you from you you are familiar with was breadwinners was born Right Elizabeth
took an ax gave her mother forty waxen. When she found she had done. She gave her father forty one wrong. There was no
Wasn't a real mother was in a real mother,
Was it forty and forty one wax now so
about that was just made up. They think This'Ll newspapers. Yes, there. They think it's a children's nursery rhyme these days little psycho children to bite, but they do think that it was possibly some newspaper hocker, a newsy. If you watch Disney movies, who came up
with it and then took off. We should change it to Lizzie. Borders may or may not have taken a hatchet given her stepmother eighteen or nineteen wax right.
Of them crushed her skull, which he thought of it. She had done her.
I got home, she gave him eleven or so and then got away here Scot Free there does. I had the same ring to fight. You basically did to sum it up pretty well pretty accurately check here. So, for those of you don't know who is born is to settle down buckling, prepare for a while ride. For those of you who do know do the same
Ok, we have new evidence here that it was going to reveal any incontrovertible urban initiative exactly who carried out these murder. Yet in the only people have it is us yet because we make it up and you ll find out in thirty five minutes or forty apparently to us, the famous in history plastered and absurd unless he born out of her displeasure boat goes in and I won t yet. I should point out to the very first thing we said we told you didn't was important. She said lesbian yeah, and we said maybe that's one of the theory
yeah, this law figure in where does teasing teasing like crazy, so the morning of August. Fourth, eighteen, ninety two forever Massachusetts very cute town. By the way, I'm sure you mean I visited recently- did you get a health were also together. That's that
those on your death through your murdered or by an eighty. Ninety two, like I said it was over a hundred degrees Fahrenheit on August. Fourth, really really hard
that area and it about
and think about ten forty five, a m: wasn't it about some forty five, whether the first martyr? No, the father come coming home area there. They place both of these events within, like thirty to forty five minutes
as you know, a given take their sub item. Forty five, a M one Andrew Jackson, bore burden returns to his home at ninety two second street involved over mass and dumb. They ve the houses and a part of
down. There was a very popular among recent immigrants, specifically irish Catholics in Portuguese anyway, there's some chinese immigrants. There is well when
wasn't upscale part of town by any means, despite the fact that an important was an extremely wealthy man yeah, he was worth between seven and ten million today dollars. I've I've heard twelve
say between seven and twelve, that lets of today dollars right. That's a lot of dough and also a good reason to kill somebody here, but he, despite having
lotta, though he lived in one of the lower rent sections of town near his house. Did
I have indoor plumbing, which was kind of odd by this time for that area. Apparently many
the people who were far far worse off than his family financially had indoor plumbing, he did not know, you didn't, have any kind of electric lighting. Instead, he used kerosene lamps and he kept door's locked. He was very afraid of being robbed. Yes, ATLAS cover this video.
But I think we should read this. There's lady name Angela Carter, who wrote about the case she actually factored into our are very tells upset you
The feminist railway rewrote, while fairytales watches
the railways that Neil Jordan take on little right right in her hood yeah. Remember she wrote that the same lady, while
so she said the houses originally a to family home and they converted into a single family home. But didn't take a lot of time.
Apparently just knocked down some miles through in a staircase at an end
being a weird house. Because of that it is very rare and she describes it as this way a house full of life
doors that open only into other rooms, with other locked doors for upstairs,
an stairs all the rooms lead in and out of one another like a maze and a bad dream. It is a house without passages. There is no part of the house that has not been marked as some inmates, personal territory in May.
It is a house with no shared no common spaces between run one room in the next at his house, a privacy is sealed, as close as if they had been sealed with wax on a legal document. Creepy no
Why is there anything? No weird know what each room led into the nice and, in fact, Lucy's bedroom led right into her sister Emma's bedroom here too, for Emma to go to bed, she would have had to go through Lizzie Bedroom and then her stepmother and follows bedroom was behind hers, but it was sealed off by a locked door and access through staircase. They only your father. You say you could get to only with the key Yan to go up and down the stairs they had to go through their parents, better.
Right. Yes, but they knew that there was. There was off limits. It was locked. There's jumps out the second story when there is a front staircase up of actually built a second staircase, so that have their there's. Parents could come and go
To their room without having to go through Lizzie, so for all intents and purposes, with this locked door, it was a wall that sealed off their parents room from their yes, and when we say parents, stepmother Lizzie was born to Sarah Morse and her father in eighteen, sixty third child.
I had an older sister name Emma ten years older. The second daughter named Alice who died when Lizzie was too yes, yet she died from hydrocephalus. You could just make up anything back then something believe
Regular and then her mother died in eighteen sixty three when she was just too of uterine congestion, and then
when Lizzie turned right before she turned five, he remarried to Abbe Gray, who the daughters
when their thirties, by the time the murder took place unmarried spinsters and never seem like they had a great relationship with that they didn't, but they both adored their father, and he did. He personally appreciated that for his benefit, they referred to her mother and they did for decades yeah until a time gets by. The is the very reason that Andrew Board and kept the house locked all the time
because, a couple years before they have been a burglary where some mysterious burglar had come in and made off with a hundred dollars in some trolley tickets in some jewelry I think- and it was based-
pretty well known around town that it was Lizzie who done it sounds like an inside judge in a sheer.
Father, if rather than accuse his daughter of this extraordinarily scandalous behaviour at the timeshare, he just walked. Everything in all doors were locked all the time and he kept it
to his room on the mantel, basically daring anybody to even try it is. He would know what happened, because the only way you could get in was through this key
we get to the key- would be to have a key to the outside doors. Yet we sail this to say that when entering board and came back home that day on August forth that morning, he was locked out of his own house near and he had to be led him by the maid, whose name was Brigitte here but
Emma and Lizzie called Maggie, because they had had another made no Maggie and they decided that they just we're. Gonna call this one Maggie to sounds like gum
You ought to show another period, ha that's great, comedy central, basically a reality, tv spoof of like doubt, navvy and
the two led Natasha zero, and I can't remember her name from Garfunkel out the blonde. She does the yeah she's, the other. They think they created the series for their Jesse's rich girls who would like red they renamed. One of the major
share executives outer, however, not even heard of the domain is really funny. It's got a huge great cast sick then have you seen Anthony, doesn't expressly netflix. Oh no dude love that either so so awful, but wonderful
so are endeavouring to slip back into his own house. Yes, but they can you just like that,
you see he gets back by the main and he decides he's gonna laid out for low, while my couch right, apparently the whole family was under the weather, including the media,
because they have been eating the same mutton for like five days, but they also grows minds
to begin with the I've day old mutton that had been stored in the heat in an ice box. Outdoors is not just gross, it's really bad for you, so the whole family basically come down to varying degrees of food poisoning, apparently so much so that MRS Gordon Abbe Wharton had gone to talk to the doktor the day before the murders and said I think, we're being poisoned by one of my husband's business. Rivals
or must have the right something like that, yeah, that's not all the weirdness. It was going on in the in the months and weeks before the murders. There's a lot of us not stray,
but a lot of financial goings on that country
the desire of the daughters,
thirdly, Andrew started being fairly
as with other members of the family, giving away properties
thing: their income
the Abbe. He gave her a house that she let her sister live in. Your sister is in big trouble, so he helped her out yes
He's got money about other like so here
You know it and I'll give you each a property as well for a dollar and Europe you're welcome and they ended up reselling that back to dad for cash later, which was
Gunnar Jerky yeah, I was a run on property. He had a bunch rental properties and apparently his miserliness was very well known. He also directed some mills rise and fall rivers incredibly famous for its mills. It was a huge milltown. So,
he knew that if you worked in the mills and rendered a home from him a room from an even he knew,
if you got a raise- and if you got a he would raise your rent
this? Is a run or property one of his own properties that he sold there his daughter so that they could ever annulling come apparently there if they fail to do that, so they D sold it back to him for, like, I think, twenty four hundred percent increase Abed
for doing nothing. The other thing to happen in the actual the night before the murderers, their uncle John
and John Vinegar Morse, who was their decease mothers brother? He came a common to speak about some
this with Andrew and dumb there's a lot of speculation
and what was going on here. I am basically they think that had just wrapped up a tense situation even more like he probably had his hand out
I think it was fairly common for him to come by and I think he was also. I don't think he was supplicant Andrew Board and I think they
had business together a lot will, as you didn't like him sigh. I bet news to me too near she. She apparently didn't even speak to him. She said at the trial where he was there.
Like when he came to visit and stay the night. She hadn't spoken over the whole time now when he came and then spend the night and then left the next morning, because it's very important he was not in the House and Andrew Boredom came back into the house right,
yeah. Now she never called him uncle John, which is the dead give away. If you love your uncle yeah, I
I didn't realize, there's animosity between the two, I don't know the necessarily was
is one of the problems that we're gonna run into over and over again and its also one of them,
since why Lizzie Burdens Legend has remained alive for so long like we have a propensity to take very complex, complicated people and their very complex,
complicated relationships of another embroil em down into caricatures that we can understand and easily explain
so yes over the century, or so we ve done the same thing. That was important case. So it's really easy to special
It is also easy to interpret little things one way or the other, which also makes the whole thing a lot of fun here. No one, everyone loves a cold case, yeah idealistic a break in the will, get back to summon the nitty gritty deeds
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subject: EU stand
the family. There was tense in the house.
Be certain Zella goes always tents, but notably tents, right months, leading up to the murders, yeah and apparently at both
and Lizzie, took off for several weeks right before the murders when they
back, Lizzie didn't even come back to the house. She rented a room for a few days. I guess the easy or self back into having to live in this house again, like a halfway house kind of that's weird, maybe three
where is the White House and she she and Emma both start calling Missus burden mother, all of a sudden around the time that their father had given the house, the extra house to her right. Yet sir sisters living it, they Surrey calling her missus burden, including through a face. That's pretty chile right here, that's tents, like you say, Uncle John Morse might have increased this tension. The house is very, very Chile
civilly cordial to an extent, but it was a house full of adults who were not getting along in in, like you say, probably hadn't been for a while yet, and there was a matter of June eighteen. Eighty two Andrew the Father killed a bunch of pigeons in the barn outside the house to make a pigeon while so Abbe can make a pigeon pie right and supposedly Lizzie can authorities.
Regions is her pet spread, so that would not have been a very cool thing to do. If you know your daughter love these pigeons, so momentum for pigeon pie yet right there. He apparently also defended his actions by saying that he is worried about intruders, because local boys,
like the come, let themselves into their barn and hang out with these pigeons play with them. So he sobbed two problems: dinner and boys coming over by just killing was his pigeon,
that's right and she also beyond liking these pigeons, who is also a huge animal lover. She left a lot of money, do an animal rights group right and she died. So I mean she probably would have taken this fairly hard sure on the flip side, though so her father, this that characterised the caricature thing I think about her fathers painted is like this Ebeneezer Scrooge type. Yes, we're miserly type visit. He definitely was that by its very easy to extend this idea that
in Lizzie hated each other S, absolutely not true. Here they both Lizzie Nemo, apparently very much love their father and their father loved them. There is more effective, wore a pinky ring that busy gave him when he was
She was like fifteen. Indeed worn and everyday never took office like each other alot only jewelry evermore. It was like there was definite affection there that often gets overlooked when you're just kind of painting this thing in broad strokes. You know yet, but, like you said he wasn't beloved in the town, because if you asked me, if you have money in your tightwad, it's like the worst thing. It is, as you have money, be generous. That's what I said.
Sure you know pick up, checks be generous with your friends. You have dough in Europe is not gonna make any. France was to say that its true and it didn't in his case. So I'm also, if you think about it, it is. It reveals a lot cycle.
Quickly that the whole families been eating the same mind for five days and the first thing that MRS Board and thinks of is that their
because being poisoned by one of her husbands, business rivals. Yes, where her mind when exactly so there said I mean it's: it's not just inside this house that attention is also coming from
outside a little bit his well yeah. I guess we'll go in point out a few of the the circumstantial evidence.
Surrounding lizzie. So one of the things was in the
as before the murder she was trying to she'd been seen trying to buy a poisonous prussic acid,
She said she lionize. Yes, she said she wanted at the clean things, but other people, when the trials at me
she was trying to poison them, although I thought is revealed no poison. The bodies and poison in the milk know that, but the prosecutors wanted to use that to suggest that she had murder honour mine, inadmissible. It was
inadmissible because they figure to be too inflammatory, and it is entirely possible that you really did one of the cleanest sealskin coat with that stuff. What else this the dressing, pretty damning,
hold I'm for we get any further into that lists. But let's talk about the actual murders, ok, you're, ready teacher. So it's August for through follows. Just come back in his laying down on the sofa right.
And he goes to sleep and he never wakes up the trade. The reason in ever wakes up is because, like you said he got hit from behind and above about eleven times with,
acts and hit and about the same areas so that basically his face was cut clean away yet into nothingness. Yet probably a hatchet known it yeah you're right, I'm sorry, a hatchet
at about eleven ten Brigitte was upstairs sleeping, has again she'd been thrown up from the mutton when she gets roused by Lizzie calling from downstairs saying hurry, something's happened, she comes down stairs and she says
whence come in and killed father. So now this alert has this gone out? The first bodies been discovered Andrey Board and who still bleeding right? Yes and his face was hacked away, get pretty grotesque agency. The picture on my yet so Bridger runs across the street to the doktor, to get him
comes back with him and they say where's your where's, your mother, she's a stepmother there like where's your stepmother, and she says
somebody came with a note or something like that. I think she went to go visit. His thick friend, who know yet
and dumb. Then she goes well. Actually. I think I heard her come back in once you guys go. Look up. Stairs Brigitte is like
looking up stairs is a dead body here. How do we know? I know another dead bodies
neighbor, lady and Brigitte goes upstairs and they see from the staircase into the bedroom.
Really cool. When you go on the tour of the house here, you can stand where they stood and see exactly what they were saying here and there is missus burden. I think two hundred forty pounds over lay down on the floor with the back of her head, yet just split wide open here with something like eighteen blows and again thirteen of them have been have just completely crushed her skull.
In others to dead bodies. Eventually they are dragged into the dining room where their autopsy
the rather than be buried there before their buried. There, decapitated him and their heads are sent to Harvard yes and then eventually buried at the foot of their graves. Yes, like all decapitated heads exactly
so almost immediately the captain you yeah you're, the Lizzie was the only person in the house right that right because Britain was outside
when her around the time that her mother would have been killed. Lizzie.
Ironing handkerchiefs, with a little many ironing little many earning board in the dining room. Yeah Emma was fifteen miles away out of town. That's right! Uncle John Morris's away in town at the Post office. I think on business. They act as he does a stance that come right.
Andrew Gordon, was in town on his own businesses, while felicity was the only one
how's it about nine thirty! I am around the time understood.
Would have been murdered. She says that when her
other came home and lay down around the time
the murdered she wasn't in the house, then,
She said she went out to that barn that she liked to hang out with a pigeons.
To introduce eating pairs. It is hanging out in the loft eaten pairs
impairs in the recent choosing. The losses kisses gettin led to make thinkers to go fishing with year, but she was user. She's like like it here in the hundred degree, whether in specially upstairs in this love, skinny compares right. So she ate some terror, twenty four things when you in it and when she came back again, she discovered a father called Bridget down in the hole
of events enter the public record around that time? Yes, so we already mentioned the depressing acid. She was caught burning, addressed yeah family friend written.
They're doing that and then later gave testimony about that and that's what led to her being indicted for murder.
That's right when she said that the dress was stained and that's what she was burning it stained with paint, though yes, they were quite right, but this is three days after the murder of a sudden she's pointing out a dress out. Of course, you think I was just a stay of pain and who's. Gonna go him burn it
This family friend, Alice, says. I wouldn't do that. If I were you Lizzie, said, shut up, you and Alice said okay, Ngos and tells the cat
so in the basement they found to access to hatchets and then a hatchet head
It had the handle broken off, they suspected that it was broken off recently.
That hatchet had they say, look like it had been.
Planet there and covered with dust and ass to make it look like it had been there a long time that basically tampered with evidence wise one after the trial said the handle is actually there. We found it. Another officer says no, we didn't soap who knows yeah. I think that the consensus is
among historians that they never found his handle. Yes, but it's never explain whether one officer said they did so.
That hand there ever had had, but they did find no check. They never conclusively showed that it was the murder weapon made. The said, probably a pretty good standing right
and they never found any blood or anything on it, which that's kind of difficult. If you think that completely get a hatchet head clean, totally right
this kind of weird inner says they never found the murder weapon essentially well. They said they did but yeah sure the prosecution said that this is right. But who knows right again
all suspicion is this immediately following on the lazy
and there were a number of different hearings in inquest sin thing ingrained juries before she was formerly indicted in each time. Apparently it looked like she's gonna get off because, despite what the cops thought,
at this time. In this place and era, Victorian Ladys did not murder people with hatchets, so that in and of itself is enough to get her off right, thirty keeper, from even being indicted year by each time her friend, Alice from down the street, would come.
And say, I saw, was a burn address that had some sort of brownish
stay now over it and the jury or the
you're. Whoever would say we think that's enough and so finally got to the point where I think the grand jury was indicted for three counts of murder right.
One of her stepmother one of her father and then one of her stepmother S, father, which is bizarre yet at the time, but she was she face. Three council murder
They use the hatchet head. That was their big case, but they had some real problems, number one. If that dress, having covered with blood, it was gone now, but I'm here to Emma her sister said that their dress actually was covered in paint that was just paint. They had nothing to do with blood and there. The big problem here is a almost goes without saying,
somebody murdered Missus burden with a hatchet and murdered Mr Board with a hatchet. There will be covered in blood twice. So what do you do
How? How could you ve gone around that one of the theories was that Lizzie, boredom stripped down was naked killed? Mrs born put her clothes back on and then when she had the chance to close back off and then killed her father and then reinstall both times and put her claim.
Back on that probably didn't happen proudly night. We need take another break, though, and when we come back we will wrap up what
in the trials and what happened afterward ready. For this
all right we're back Elizabeth
on trial in big trouble.
And a lot of circumstantial evidence, but no no hard evidence at this point at the trial must smoking gun, as they say, with smoking, hat no fingerprints figure. They didn't do anything
printing. At this point, fingerprinting was new and not really trustworthy, so they didn't even bother yeah and pretty much. Every step of the police investigation was fouled up for the to begin with the murders took place, while almost the entire police force was off on the annual. Please picnic out attacks.
All these neighbours in looky lose came through the crime scene and totally master, but the big thing was frantic. Science wasn't really big, it wasn't in widespread use of the time
yeah so at the trial they point out a lot of and can grow and sees heard her story.
Changed a lot during me, the questioning, which is a little weird. The cops went into the barn
they said you know it's super hot in here and I ll see how anyone would choose to just sit here for twenty minutes and eat pairs
and we don't see any footprints anywhere around, which is weird because two workmen later testified that they had been up in that place like the week before yet which well. He knows after a week what a footprint
burn- will do and then the day before the murders was he went to
friend, Alison said some weird things that she felt like something: bad was gonna happen to her family almost like there was she,
feel as if something were hanging over me, and I can't throw it off and she was frightened. So this sort of looks like shoes,
up an alibi. Yes, she said she was worried. Something bad was gonna happen to her father. There was the day before the murders the night before I'm right, so for the prosecution they were like think they took too pretty big hit, one the prussic ass, the cyanide got thrown out of evidence and then to so did Lizzie Zone testimony, because the judge determine that she'd been on copious amounts of morphine at the time there and they were contradictory and even at their base, they weren't emission,
guilt. They were protestations right so that the prosecution and have a lot to gone, they had almost entirely certain, were not even almost completely circumstantial case. There really had tons and tons of holes in it that
the two a trial Lizzie never took the stand herself and
It was, it was huge, was the trial of the century. She was deemed guilty, but while the trial was taking
ace in her town. Basically, in her house newspaper
all over the world at this point, so the impression
have those they're out of town. They had a different take on it that these these bumbling dummies vehicles in fall foul river, we're trying to prosecute a woman for a crime that clearly some maniac it had carried out and that they should this leave her alone. Finally,
oh yeah trysting during the trial. This help the sensationalize aspect of it they act.
Brought in the chopped up skulls and presented it and like it was out of it.
Maybe movie less. He saw this swooned and fainted, which of course, is gonna. Get some sympathy from
hurry and dumb it didn't take long. It was about ninety minutes in the jury said not guilty and she got away with it so thinks many many people
you think I don't know what you're some
here's my theories, one, that she was like a few state and committed these murders
yeah, but a few state that lasted ninety minutes, where she was able to conceal the murder weapon in her own guilt and wait for a father to come on, fall asleep. This not Fuchs states what they say
and it could have been less than ninety minutes. If you take this shorter side of both ends of the murderers of the time,
One was that she was gay and that she
having an affair with the maid they were caught by the stepmother. She was really super mad and so Lizzie killed her with a
stick and then I went and confess to her father thinking
you might understand and he got really mad, and so they killed both killed him. That's another theory, one that she was abused by her father, sexually and physically abused. Although there's no evidence
to substantiate this one is that the made there was a death bed confession from the maid to her own sister, which no one knows if that's true or not yeah I mean the maid was most likely
lesbian, it's entirely possible. That Lizzie born was his later on after the murder. She and her sister continue
lived together. They bought, I imagine in the well heeled part of forever, unless he named maple cry
and down the maid, eventually remarried
married was she just totally falls off the map for five years and then pops up again imbue Montana and gets married and dies and like ninety forty, eight but Lizzie and her sister lived together until nineteen o five,
Then, all of a sudden, her sister moves out of the house and they never speak again for twenty two years until they die here and it's some people say that it was because her sister to improve our relationship with this woman named Nance, O Neill, yet actor yeah, which is entirely possible. Who knows what what happened?
it could have been that her sister believe she was innocent and then finally, Lizzie admitted it in nineteen o five in her sisters, like I'm done with you, who knows
but the other theories that William Gordon, who was the illegitimate son of Andrew and also a butcher, was the basically he kill them because of like failed extortion. Attempts. So what's he proven do exist? We important the I thought he was
vertical. Is he like a real person? I think so then the final two was the Emma: did it and had the perfect alibi and setting up that she was fifteen miles away,
in their uncle John did it who was their visiting yeah, so they
Anyone who had anything to do close if the family there's a theory that they did it right here. These are things like you. If you look at the evidence you can, I think you can basically get rid of everybody except Lizzie, and there are some big problems with their story to like, even if you believe, she's innocent there's some stuff, you really have to contend with. Like, for example, she says she was in the house at the time her stepmother would have been killed near and her stepmother was like two hundred and forty pounds and the police came and
a drop the two hundred hundred pound weight in the place where her stepmother had fallen when she would have been killed and on the cap downstairs whose job it was to listen to hear. If he heard anything said it felt like the whole house shock, I'm sure right so endless he's like I didn't hear anything. That's that's kind of a weird thing right sure then Lizzie also she behave rather strangely here, they're like when the neighbour came overshoes like oh missus, turtle do come in someone's, come in and killed Father yeah like come in for tee. There there's a lot of words
that she's done can then the dad was posed afterward on the couch yeah. His favorite coat was rolled up beneath his head, the end he had his Ike arms folded over in his lap and MRS Creepy
but if you really look at all the evidence to especially the prosecutions case, there's no way that that jury should have conveyed through. They definitely did the right thing and in equating her because they had. There is no case against her really yeah. I'm issues little she's, like five foot, one in
Basically one of the big defence points was like this tiny little lady just couldn't have done this year. These were like brutal, powerful forceful blows with it.
Hatchet and despite blaming the fact that she is crazy guys, maybe it's just that one picture honor, but with a third endure he favours in history near like that one big photo of her. She looks like a psycho killer. She does
a little bit, but are they said that knows? No eight is a lady could have done this and that was kind of one of their main defence points. Yeah
dead matter, what happened because everyone thought she did it
She would go to church and have people whisper about her and kids through rocks at or windows for years, and the rotten eggs at her house and thing down, ditch and basically was shunned by her local town folk.
As a murderous and even the people, all the outer towners came in user. Is you know to promote their own stuff like the suffragists like
basically hero by the time she died, like most people had left her in
she died a fairly lonely old woman, despite having not spoken to her sister and twenty two years. They died within nine days of each other, yet Lizzie died first and then Emma and sweetly oddly weirdly, all of the burdens Lizzie Emma Andrew Abbe, the original missus burden and their sister, who died as a child or all buried next to another in the family, plot airless normal state weird. This is how they did things not weird,
She did change your name to which I thought was even go far enough. She change hands Elizabeth burden there. I might have gone with something completely different without allies, even in the name that would, in my recommendation, really Tammy boredom or something or Tammy Smith.
Oh yeah, you can guarantee the boar nausea whole. How I thought about that. You know he's not gonna disappear about Lisbon Board.
Instead of Lizzie born Heaven on earth has tackled at I'm livelihood and she was pretty young to sixty six when she died yeah. Her sister is like us
I almost a decade alder there, so she died at an. I guess: a respectable old age Lizzie died, youngish, nothing
her sister Anne you die of enormous. She fell on the stairs, supposedly with push marks in her lower back. So we ve discovered this given like a really like broad overview view, can dedicate all of your spare time to this case is really fascinating, is written theirs
stuff on it on the internet too, and if you ever in the providence or boss, an area like this of favouring go down to the lazy boardinghouse there and take the two: it's pretty cool stay there right. Yes, Ben Breakfast, you can stand supposedly hunted alleged
few, believing that kind of stuff await our new evidence that we didn't reveal it ok go ahead. I have none. I don't! Even when you scare me, I thought, like you really did after second now that we have
I would be sit on it and you can type of subordination. Search bar is turns up some lame definition over. I think our sights are just go look elsewhere, they said elsewhere,
the listener male readings
since Jerry or no or empty space of recently
somewhat at a novel, biological, a factor- and we talked about this and its taught me- a lot
about how I did and how I,
I should be hearing myself in the world. I would like to believe I've been polite about it, but I'm definitely the type of person that has a hard time not noticing
my attention drawn to irregularities about people, especially on their faces about two weeks ago developed a bacterial infection of my skin covers about half of my forehead
extends down to one eye, causing redness and swelling,
I remain more closed than the other. Interesting state was surprised of how many of my friends and strangers in public I could tell her distracted by it was talking to me and it made me feel a little self conscious on top of my own hang ups
such things. I think I've learned a little bit from the experience about what it might be like to be someone that goes to their whole life in this situation, and I my case at least it's not as simple as just
during the condition, but it goes a long way for people to acknowledge it, be able to accept it without judgment. I thanks for the work you guys do for keeping me company with a wide variety of
as from Andrew in Utah thanks a lot Andrew. We appreciate that yeah sorry to hear about that man, but I, like your attitude about a fresh perspective, exploit
You got a rush with fresh perspective, you about
no matter what it has to do it. You can tweak to us away chuck
We want to say a happy new year to everybody, yeah happy New year and happy birthday. You happy birthday, you me ok! So if you want you can twitters ass white ass, they passed. He can join us on Facebook that complex that we should now. You can send an email
I guess the house were stuck up and is always join us at home on the web stuff. You should know that
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-11.