In yet another testament to how amazingly great the 70s were, in 1975 the US started a program that tried to harness the powers of clairvoyance to remotely spy on the Soviet Union. Since clairvoyance doesn’t seem to exist, it wasn’t super successful.
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Oh, I had radios house network woke into the podcast. I'm Josh clerk clears Charles the reach of Brian over their Jerry's here,
floating around the office somewhere but she's. Here everybody are yes,
is here in the flesh. She does exist, she's real. She also is clothes not just flesh the trade and because the three of us are hanging
even on the internet, it's stuff, you yeah good to her hairs, long
This is like a hippie now Naomi long, precarious, not very long, but right. It's swiftly
than usual and looks quite nice. That's great man shall she cares. You stay at home, stay home, save lives Jerry.
Yeah, that's right, you know what else may have saved lives, Chuck projects, targeted projects, target
Do you know and a heads and said that it may have saved lives tour? Why? Well I mean
You tell your version, but I mean because we don't even noticed us real or not yeah. I was going to say that I said it may have save lives because it totally didn't save many lives. As far as the news that the votes are made,
Gobbledygook and I see a boondoggle in U S military boondoggle from the seventies to the nineties, bite
but anecdotal stories, though it
it is like. It's one of the more interesting chapters and CIA history see a history is awfully interesting, has alot of assisting horrific chapters. This one's not horrific. I think that's one of the big differences of it is it's just interesting, there's not a lot a horror to it, and the men who stared goats by our PAL John Robinson, really kind of devolves into horror toward the end of it when he gets an m k Ultra, but this a supper four main Kay EM k Ultra. It came from the same mindset for sure this idea that the powers to the mind that could conceivably be unlocked to do
ill or good or neutral stuff who knows, but this one it it was fairly benign. As far as CIA projects go, don't you think yeah
and believe it or not. I never saw that movie. It was ok
That's why I didn't, I think I mean it had everything I love in a movie, witches
Bridges and George Clergy John Malkovich right yeah, but I'm funny spots in it too for sure yeah, I don't know I don't got pass me. I think I've read tepid reviews and discussed. I was like me,
you watch state. You would not think that you are just what you would not want the two
hours of your life back, but you in just be like I mean to dedicate my life to making sure everybody seizes movie. You wouldn't be like that. Ok and- and I have read the book- sorry John- a few- even listen to us any more, but it like I'm quite sure from what I understand the book as is vastly superior to the movie which windows that
perhaps your if John rats in their hands were involved in his brain, then I'm sure was better labelling. That yeah he's a good guy, didn't like to wear shoes for people who might not have seen him
there's another fun fact that you probably don't know he was on one of the first editions of movie crash and he sits. He swears that he sits on the very front row far left it. That's torture, its torture,
I d his it was so weird now I know I heard that up his his movie was Annie. No, not you
What was a dear, it was let the right one in our man, that's a great movie
sure, is in you mean if you ever go to a movie, theater new york- and you see some guy Ratan
with. No. She is then go to him on the shoulder and ass for his autograph. Yet, okay, so we're talking projects target, which was the general code name for the secret project. That was declassified around two thousand. I think which gave its very telling that it was declassified and two thousand, because the project was finally cancel the ninety. Ninety five normally when this year connects a project, especially if that project yields valuable stuff yeah. They not declassify it in just
I've years it takes decades before that stuff starts to trick allowed, but with projects target they said he go here. Everything we're out of everyone about this issue again, half a year, its grey reading, but this this project ran from officially, I believe, nineteen seven
five to ninety ninety five and had a different color different names and they got passed along from different different agencies, but the whole thing started even back before the sea guy.
Vault, and from what I saw there was a woman. I soviet woman,
name, no catalogue, NEA who was
on tv in the Soviet Union and shoes demonstrating or tell it and apparently some defence intelligence analysed, saw this tv show and said: hey. I think this
the Soviets might have some sort of mind weapon that we might want to look at in its scared. The bejesus out of the United States,
the trying busy trying their own hand, starting with the S, Nautilus, Nautilus, the first submarine to make it to the North pole
I think what so funny about the early history of this is that the rush
and started doing it because they thought we were doing it and we started doing it because we thought they were doing it and I dont know if either one of us technically were
officially doing it. No, no
so yeah there that the woman on TV did not necessarily mean the Soviet had some sort of programme, but it was that whole a goofy, cold war thing words like if, if there's even the slightest
The Russians are up to something we got gotta. Do that too, and then do it better and they have the exact same mentality. So there is a constant arms race for everything, including s, P,
and what would be fine? I was called remote viewing yeah
Kennedy. I guess we should tell everyone what this means. It's sort of like a and in addition of Karnak, the magnificent
from the Johnny Carson show? At least this is how they trained and we'll get into that specifically, but it was hey.
You have a gift. Maybe we're gonna test you to see
but sit in this room and tell us if you can locate whatever
oh base in the Soviet Union or a hostage.
In the Middle EAST or just whatever they needed to know that they didn't know you're like just sit here.
Ireland and think it into reality
and that was sort of the basis of the programme was it was trying to use sigh p
sigh which we talk about before yet too are
political in August military advantage, yeah yeah, so
I mean in that respect it was really again very benign they weren't trying to explode somebody's head, although there were reports of of programs like that, but with projects target specifically was just people trying to come up with descriptions of secret places or the like. You said, the location of certain people just kind of
ass. Truly projecting is another way to put it. Clairvoyance is another way to put it, but this kind of nuts is readings
what else is mine, but actually travelling
where else in the world and connecting into a person or a thing or a place, and getting that information
remotely through means other than the normal senses. That's why
the reason for this very reason, another name for remote viewing, which is what it came to be called, is anomalous cognition, which is you ve got this information you getting this this info, that you'd normally get
from like your ears or your eyes, your tongue, or something like that, but you're getting
Just into your mind, you done it you're a girl like that
They tell me where I can figure out the secret code word basin by linking it to keep, but the means
you know you're not you're, getting it from not just your sensory perception, it's an extra centre
right so means that so that me right, so that's the whole jam with
Is that the CIA and the Soviet had their own thing going on to were saying like. Let's do this, let's use this potential capability to come to see if it works, and if it does
it was seated together intelligence without having to go anywhere without having to spend
Julie. Any money I must just like you said, put him in a room: they were some salteena in some good
Malaysia. Let em relaxing in figure it out. Yes, so, instead
he, too is when the d I the defence intelligence agency,
Scott Wind of the Soviets potentially doing this for real
and the CIA said. Alright, you know we're gonna start funding these private research firms to see if this is possible.
And seventy three the started.
Happening at the s our eye international in California?
which stood originally for Stanford Research Institute, but they weren't apart of Stamford at the time
and there was a guy, there name doctor
so target who
as one of the researchers and he wrote a book called Mine race, which great title for something like this
and he had some like early examples of.
Sessions that he thought sounded promising. At least right I was gonna say I'm not sure how he got into it, though
But here I don't know if he was already into it and then the d I got into a restarted finding him or something like that, but from yeah from what I can tell you at the earliest,
I bet he was into it, but not for a minnow espionage type purposes or anything like that. No, no, I think it was just kind of like this.
Lee you know, beginning of totally the new age movement there. I was like under the leading edge of that whole thing. So
in seventy six. There was this experiment that he championed is like hey. Look this good,
There was a remote viewer,
someone in the offices in California there s our eye and doktor targets in New York City,
No one knew anything about where he was supposedly. I think we can say supposedly a lot in this by hats
and they said our aid. Where am I in,
he said. Well, let me see it
to do in my brain, I'm seeing something
I'm seeing a summit
depression. Yes, it's almost like a dry fountain. Yes, there's a submit post in the middle and there,
pigeons lying around us
Doktor target said. Oh I'm in Washington Square Bark in the fountain is empty.
Band and shook there's pigeons pooping everywhere, because its New York, yes, and so like with this, this apparently successful remote viewing session doktor tar,
I was able to get funding from the dia at first and that were really kind of kicked off. Pretty amazing. This whole study that, when I think, came through in seventy six, but it certainly kept this funding going, but he had
He had anecdote old data from remote viewing sessions. Previous to this, that really kind of kick things off, and so the CIA is like. Will I mean if this guy can sit there and
figure out that this guy is in Washington Square Park just with his mind's eye
You know without linking anything right,
like all, certainly no pay
and are being liked here that, like like, we can probably put that to good use having him think about soviet stuff and weakens
their secrets that way that, right and in nineteen seventy six we had a President Elect and Jimmy Carter, who you know asked
blue questions around the office, and he got
in touch with Europe Geller, the famous
You're a geller he's a great mental list. If you haven't, we talked about him plenty of time to
like year by really wanna do just enough to show him these pre Eric did you know,
he ended up getting very rich by dousing for oil companies,
really. Can you believe that I can. I can't because
oil companies will pay anybody anything if they think it will be no oil. You know really orderly. She gets a mortal men. Give me some more so
no said he had a private meeting with him and he kind of asked about
going on and Geller said you know these Russians they school or they screen school. Kids,
see if anyone has particular talents like paranormal power talents and they said
m to special places to be trained in Carter said
maybe we should look into this- its nineteen seventy seven now and they
find any evidence of that kind of thing. But by this point the chicken was that,
the coup by thinking they were
and a little bit of money to come to pursue this yes,
I think the only evidence that that little line that Europe Geller gave to Jimmy Carter was the irregular had seen escaped a witch mountain. I mean that's them.
With all this is like. Bs begets more
yeah, so Yuri Geller,
Had a meeting with Carter started talking out of is a
and the next thing you know, the United States is funding a study to find out whether its true said come on. Yeah
I like I have to I'm to disperse up here, I was very bugged.
Tired time. I was researching this particular one crop circles all over again, yeah but more fun, the crop circles. I hang it. It was more fun, but you know what kind of suck the fun out of it for me always go hidden, say it now is gonna save for the end, but I read some
somewhere that really kind of drove at home that the problem with like this kind of stuff is that if you
you let it really kind of get a foothold or get started. It paves the way for the kind of thinking that just doubt science year and that that day
its expertise and there is no, no don't you know they. People convince spoons. You don't need me, like you know you don't you don't have to.
Leave in science. This stuff happens. It's real! What's the hurry right exactly that
of a sudden. You have people believing anything that they hear hear. Mr that's, the pie
within a really bug me, especially on today of all days, you know, of course,
one thousand nine hundred and seventy eight- and we don't know all this stuff for sure, because a lot of this stuff is still wondering if it's still top secret, but the time
like in it. We don't know specific dates, but around seventy eight. The CIA stopped funding this.
And the army said: hey will take over nobody
bunch of money. We don't know what to do again. How about a cool army code name will call it project.
Real flame near one word, don't know, lie that's weird. While I think that's the point of a project, name is meant to kind of baffle you
I think some of my kind of cool and reliable to the thing now, but to me it for
well you know why any outside where a project is about. You know, Mister Ploughshare, Pie, ok,
you're right, there was a really good one you're right, so project, grill, flame
from the army was
in Maryland, at Fort Mead,
and they had remote viewers or people who claim to be remote viewers or show talent as remote viewers,
in barracks, and they would do the carnatic routine. They would hand them an envelope and said what's inside
and that was gonna. The extent of their testing at first yeah. They they would
while they were heard her open the
I'm sure they would just once who, as a joke, put into their forehead right, but they would give em. They would give him a car.
Like an envelope with maybe a somebody's picture made
no card that has latitude and Longitude typed on.
Maybe somebody's name now? Is it and they were told to think
that latitude and longitude or told it to concentrate on a person's picture or think about their name, and
They wanted all the information that came and so on
latitude longitude. Typically, you would know like you're supposed to be
viewing remotely a like a site or some sort of secret Bay, Sir, some sort of weaponry, satellite dishes, radar dish or something like that and
if it was a person you know who knows. Maybe they were lost person in some of these people, some of these
My viewing subjects: would we
say like I need a little more info or something like that, and then you can kind of get him going and then they would write down with them.
Pressure were they would maybe dictated they would draw it? Maybe they would do.
All three and then after twenty minutes
thirty minutes, however long they they dedicated to it. They would stop and all of their aims.
Would be taken away and then analyzed analyzed by a defence intelligence
analysed CIA analysed the USA analysed, who knows
Somebody whose job is going through intelligence that was given to them by
eyes and satellites, and all that we'd everyone. So I'll get it but package slipped through them
we need to seventy five and eighty ninety five there somewhere,
had literally pulled out of thin air and put down in law.
And here you go see if this this holds up
help you in any way, in figuring out, what's
mountain in the urals.
So there was a guy named Joseph Mc Monaco and
he was he worked as a user recruit for
four grill flame and he worked into the nineties and he is in pretty good stories, and
there's a lot of good stories in here and this stuff, true as the thing no like, it was first
waiting. You think this stuff is all made up. Ike the here's. The thing for ever
one of his stories. I will try to cross for him for it with with declassified see a documents I couldn't find anything like all of you,
stories are anecdotal writers. The problem they get reported not necessarily is fair
but the european aid in, like you know, an actual profile of the guy in the Washington Post, rose weaker somewhere on the spot, checks
and then all of a sudden right and then all of a sudden when somebody cross references some
weird thing they re written some fringy book it pops up in a Washington post article. Two eight then, through that
true it's bad reporting. That is, is continuing this to go on. But, as far as I know, I could not find any corroboration from any declassified documents for any of his stories.
So one of his examples in eighteen, seventy nine. He said that he will. He could see where sky lab
very famous satellite and the nineteenth
chinese and Eightys was going to crash eleven months before
this is also a precondition right, which is another part of sigh,
and and nineteen eighty one and suppose,
That was correct and nineteen eighty one? He also got another Tipp, a mental hot Tipp that there was a high-
stage brigadier General James Dose you're the
being held in out of its powers,
Padua, ITALY, his Padua,
You are neither one, I think it is Padua and suppose it
the Tipp arrived in ITALY and the day that he was released in that very town
what else? What about the KGB agent, the sun's pretty great. So there is a KGB agent in South Africa that
Yea had been watching in the in August. Seventeen eighty and they
didn't figure out how he was contacting his KGB handler here.
In in mother Russia, and I guess MC gonna go
Mc Monocle, it was focused on a calculator
saw that this guy really was obsessed with his calculator, and it turns out when the CIA looked at is calculated figured out. It was a shortwave radio, yet and also
check, the guy's calculator sure
a check on the electronic city has he has
cigarette later in a calculator we looked at, the cigarette later found now gave up after that. Here we looked at
calculator and held it upside down it. Does it bootless
its borders, member, the professor ones, when there are they
the mortar cap and all that now when he does-
you don't, there was one I had a drawing of like an old, wise man with her the graduation cap. I know it's pretty famously seventies calculator for
aids. Oh, oh, you mean a calculator itself, yeah, nothing
now you're talking about other, emit some weird trick where you type in numbers internet upside down. It says I want it looks like a guy. Oh, I see like that's pretty impressive weak. I heard you like. I can just in time boobs
so in eighty five, the dossier,
took control of this programme. I guess took it back from army, it seems like nobody wanted it
every few years they were despite. Who wants to take this over now, but the thing is it kept getting fund
in what I ready their target. Edwin May, who comes in later as the director of this programme
like they said it was a year to year funding, but it kept getting funding every year for twenty years, when I was doing, I would say,
to that, like once it went from one agency to another. Maybe it would survive once, but it
arrived all these transitions yesterday. Take it back
in eighty five and
with funding as our I again international, their back on the scene
and then another contractor private contracts or came on called science applications international court.
California, in this
where they name it STAR Gate and ninety. Ninety one right in
to be after the movie right. I don't think so. Man, I think the movie came out a few years after that. Really
I'm gonna. Look that's easy. No, the jack was finding the whole time. I was wondering about that.
And that was the name from nineteen anyone to its end and ninety. Ninety five and
I'm sorry not ended one thousand nine hundred and ninety five one thousand nine hundred and ninety five is when the CIA took it back over right.
And then the CIA. Finally,
You know I were just we're not sure about this. Any more words Skinner risk in this.
The fund this thing in and let it go away again, this is ninety. Ninety, five and five years later, they declassify
However, as far as we know, everything that had anything to do with it. I think some of the people like Mc Monaco,
who were involved are saying now, they're still plenty classified stuff. You guys don't know about that really prove,
is everything. Perfect here does not show near the good stuff yeah, but I read this
I read a, I guess: a transcript of escape toyed, buddy, Brian turnings per capita, who we went down
We had a flame more with over whether or not it could rain frogs Debbie.
Here we did he while he tried to start one. I just ignored him, but it was. Is this
we had the you can arrange frogs at personnel, but that was years ago in it, yeah now get
long memory. I can hold a grudge anyway and skip. He was basically saying, like the very fact
like all these people are allowed, who were verifiable e in this programme, run by the sea,
for twenty years. The fact that there are allowed
walk round and talk about this in haven't been like having disappeared. It just displays further credence to the idea that there is nothing
came up right because they would all just be vanished kind. I think this year is not above that kind of thing
Well, at any rate, the CIA said it's not worth this money that we're spending. So let's just get at the very end of the typical thing. Let's get a third party
port now solve it all in a ninety. Ninety five, the american Institutes for research,
an evaluation of remote viewing, Cohen research and
applications and said you know what this is pretty compelling stuff, but we can't use it for intelligence because you note the word intelligence
z, and they shut it down the shut it down and ninety ninety five. They did twenty years,
twenty million dollars, looking very thing from news
soviet submarine, designed to allow scud missiles to people being held by foreign kidnappers, all of it just
down the toilet, the trade in the old days. This would be the end of the episode in today
stuff. You should know it's our first message break
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Listen, we started a little late after reserve, according twenty five that that I don't think that's the record aright. So should we keep talking about projects target discuss this one yet
so you're, not coming like I'm not trying to Poohpooh like a people's imagine
They I've got the same thing. I love the same stuff. Just mine eyes,
an open and they can ever be closed again due to say my
eyes. Yet again, goodness
so with with Sgi right. The whole basis of this was that
It was allowed to continue on for twenty years, because the people involved were very much impressed with what they saw yes and
what they saw. A kind of went a little bit like this, like the earliest tests. I think the ones that Russell Target was doing were basically like. Come tell me about sums
obvious submarine float around somewhere in the world will see what you can do this really free, Lucy, Goosey, hippy, stuff right
and then a guy named Doktor Edwin may came along and he took over in, I think night,
eighty five but had been working on the project, starting at the same for Research institute, beginning and back and nineteen seventy five, and so he was on this project. I believe for the full twenty years in one to pass,
here another and took over they weren't, not paying him. For the last ten,
here- is just around living off a cell teens
great coup was right with his red Stabler, but here
he he instituted way stricter protocols for conducting these remote viewing experiments and tests to not just you know, Remo viewing experiments were corrected. He wanted to kind of show that these things could work too. So he came up with something called ranked order. Judge
which is part of a larger type of tests, called force, choice, yeah and I'm gonna get you
explain that in the second cause I didn't fully get the the redo, but
It is a pretty interesting guy. He was a doktor he's a Phd in nuclear physics
and it was easy to sort of casts some unlike this is just so
the lobby, hippy type, really
but he was also a Lupi hippy type. He got his flows dock in San Francisco in the nineteen sixties, so you know that means
and he literally used the words he became a professional hippy delighted.
Dolores academics got into
what you do. If that is your path, he go to India at some point, just hoping to sort of soak up some cool esoteric knowledge bump into Rupert shouldering
perhaps- and he came back and didn't really give a lot out of industry- had a great time everything but
didn't come back there,
didn't come aggravating. He could use came back and
many five, and then
that's where he got a job as a research assistant, it s our eye international working with telecom nieces, and he was like this is it for me, baby, this is
This is a job you pay me for this and I just can't took off from there in- and I guess took over as director and ninety
If I right, yes, he was the one who started this different sort of testing method called first, not first choice but forced choice, riotous
quite know it wasn't anywhere near as like free and
easy as the free response ones. It was basically a kind of like this ok so
the one with the who
you're holding one of these tests. Ideally you have three people involved
you have the remote view area. You have
the sender whose actually thinking of the thing that their remove you're supposed to be tapping into and engage gaining information from, and the use of a judge
Ideally, you said that the ideal, important yeah and also ideally, this
under and the remote viewer should not be in contact with one another before or during the experiment, another kind of important one to yes and these
things that, like Edward May, was instituting a really kind of scientific fide the whole thing
definitely gave it a more legitimate glean for sure. But so what happens? Is the the sender chooses a photo from a hundred photos, international Jake
for photo set. That's usually what they you, and I also. Ideally, we could point out that they would use
way more than a hundred photos and not those same photos over and over, that's a big one tools will see for sure yeah. It's a big problem, if used the same photo set,
and the same remote viewers right. Yes, so the the person
who is the sender would sit there and they would pick a photo and then they would think about that photo
and the remote viewer would idea
somewhere else. Thinking about that with the the sender was thinking of, and then they would.
Down there impressions, they were draw their impressions and then they would compile
this little document, basically of what they say
during their remote viewing session. Ok, that's this the first step, yet the second step is there.
You take for other, maybe five other pictures from that same National geographic photo set, and you could even
equally put them as printed photos into an envelope, and then you give that to the judge who has
Nothing to do with any of this. To this point they just now,
been given an envelope of photos, and then they also
and given the remote viewers document that they whipped up from their Roma viewing session, and so the judge is supposed to take their remote viewers, impressions
hence in basically match them to one of the photos, and so they rank the photos. If you have six photos theirs,
one photo! That's your number one photo that you're saying like this is what the Roma viewer was seeing. This one is the second likely as the third likeliest, fourth fifth and sixth likely, so you rank the photos,
if the remove your got it right, then the photo the judge chose to add
as the number one photo should be the photo that the centre was thinking of when there
my view, got their impression, ok, sure
actually in a we're way, very scientific, because you can insert statistical analysis into this whole thing and they did, and they found that over time summer-
viewers did do much better than chance. Just random
ants we're out of every hundred tries any photo, should be chosen out of a set of five. You know twice
was it. The think of direct quote was from the report was far beyond what is expected by chance. Yes, that supposedly came from it
who believer statistician here on an analysis of this, but yes, there were, there were the site there,
this idea that some of these people were capable of of withdrawing impressions
What somebody else in indifferent room was thinking based on a photo. They were looking at
and then there are now we can
about all the explanations of how that probably wasn't any sort of clairvoyance.
And what bugs me just before we,
get to that is in the report. It
it was far beyond what is expected by chance. Like tell me what percent?
chances and what percentage they got not yet
opinion on what is far beyond what is it right right?
Let me right off the bat, that's a big one right there.
There's also subjectivity running through this big time, because the Georgia is doing a subjective analysis to right, yeah,
You know if you're picking another like a mention another one of the problems, is they used the same set of one hundred?
GEO images, so
I imagine. After a couple of times they know
it's gonna, be something about nature too, at the very least yeah, and if they say, let's say,
and attacking Elk.
I, but it's a tiger attacking an antelope. You win.
You know you and then, if that is the the only
photo with anything like a lion and an Elk whatever tiger in the photo set the wrestling.
In oil, Derek in a lake and some other stuff. Then of course that's the one. That's gonna win with with that. The judges gonna choosing they're, going to have a hit
So there's a lot of like real problems with this, even though they tried to add like science to the whole thing. They you just can't, do it just an eye it right exactly and then so so there there was just the experiments that they conducted to kind of show and demonstrate that this work
a lot of stuff that they used for intelligence. There was much more along the lines of the Visa Free Association, one cycle free association. Where does it come? Oh, the free response, experiments where they're just like tell us about you know the Soviets. Any nude submarine did designs is right or working on or something so can we can. We tell somebody, Sir stories that were supposedly successes
s married. The West, Virginia site is the first one. Doktor target relate the story, and these were, from the early days in the early seventies,
Judge a remote viewer in California was
given the longitude latitude, coordinates of somewhere in West Virginia said. What do you see,
and the remote viewer said described.
What was going on with the terrain above the ground and about a secret
underground government site and support
Lee provided names of personnel who work there code.
Words used for the topsecret projects.
Apparently, the description was really really accurate, so accurate that the CIA
said one of the CIA, I assumed it was but
they said that we ve got a leak and we need to find out what's going on, investigate this right. That's the kind of thing I think, like you said,
I was in early seventies, doktor target one year, the something like that that prompts a investigation into a leak. That's
we'll get you more funding for a while that, like definitely will cement year, junior them innovation, giving funding yeah for sure, especially young people
jumpy about what the Soviets my beyond this kind of thing too, and we gotta get on it sure appear
that same remove your saw remotely saw
underground side that, with similar in Russia and the Euro Mountains described that that was supposed,
the verified, as quote substantially correct by the CIA. Yet so that was one of the big ones that people kind of town is evidence that project started.
Work drink your ears also one called the microwave generator report is given on this was with them
doktor may doktor over May and dumb the
remove your was, as is typical, does given long to tune latitude. Maybe
in, like a little more evidence who think they were told that it was a technical site in the? U S,
and the remote viewers, started, describing a microwave generator on site, and the most astounding thing about it is that the the remote
you said that this microwave had a beam of divergence. Angle of thirty degrees,
which is not something that you should be able to glean from somebody telling
you, the blank latitude and Longitude coordinates of a technical site. Sure too, that is pretty
impressive and then later on, Doktor made took the whole description which, as well
it is rare in these cases and in determined that there was a though that the specks of the generator itself were eighty percent accurate and that the site as a whole were
twenty percent accurate. Seventy no liable, though it's ok, seventy percent reliable, no idea how you would conclude that or quantified anything by exactly again. This is the kind of thing like you're starting to build like a lore around this department, this agency,
people who are already kind of into the existence of this kind of thing. Can common in participate in and talk about with their friends and in one
people at cocktail parties with the russian crane. This one came from doktor targets,
the year was given again coordinates of a site near
a city in the former Soviet Union, and there was
play in like what are you see? What the drawing detailed was? A large industrial crane color?
entry, clean green in the
said, you know what there is no way that this person could have known how to draw this gallantry crane unless
saw the remote viewing or someone told them. This no other explanation yet, and that was what the analysts to his handed. This was like wild, it's really impressive, so the russian crane stands on its own two feet and then
There is also one called the lower fugitive. There's a woman named angel afford.
Who was a long time participant in projects target- and she used
kind of medium ship where she had three different spirit guides. He would call
heard to carry on automatic writing ass. She did her room
that's right, and she- and this is, you know she would go down to four meet at the barracks and do this right under Army Supervision, which is so bizarre. But that's what
happened right so angel Afford was given the name of Ganem Charles Jordan, who is an interesting cat in another himself? He was it.
He called himself the ruler of the Florida keys. He was
Jerry buffet. He was a curtain he's the prince of the fallen
he was the year. He was a crooked customs agent who it turned into a drug
smuggler down there and also is very easily bribes, so that other drug smugglers could smuggler drugs and so was Jimmy buffet. He got caught
and went on the Rhine, and so they are looking for him, so they asked angel afford if she could find informed, that's right and she's
I'm seeing or my friend
answer. My goes, friends are telling me
and I'm automatically writing this city. Lowell
of Wyoming and it turned out
was apprehended a hundred miles west
love, L, Wyoming
a hundred miles west of a place that she still didn't name. Some people say, though, that Charles Jordan admitted
being in the town on the deck,
her my feelings proven right. So you ve got all this stuff. All these and
those that are just coming together and delight. Get this check this out. Get a load of this were all these things that you can point to write books, sign and save
like this, is for real and that the Washington Post can report on an that's woods, kept this ledge in this stuff about projects. Sorry
being for real going all these years and if you dig it to it, it's really
really, hard to pull part B.
The people who were there,
tell you in an interview, like all this person said this, but then, if you
these somebody else's they well, I didn't say that she didn't say she did
say Lowell. She said Northern Wyoming somebody else and say no. She just said
you know somewhere in the west, or something like that. So as the story of Charles Joy
being captured in yellow stone,
comes out later
story of annual afford remotely viewing him in Wyoming gets piled,
and added to over the years until you have heard
missing. The letter of the word may either
word by one letter and
seeing him in that town on the day that it happened and that's how, like the stuff, goes, its just anecdotal stuff
that really did happen like she really did have this removing session, but the accuracy of it is what's always been in doubt the problem is chuck. Is there are example?
lots of people doing some really spectacularly?
amazingly accurate, hits over the years
there really kind of credence to it. It insert in some way so much so
The american research Institutes or American Institute of Research paper still said, look
there are some weird unexplainable stuff in here: does it prove that
remote viewing is real
nl exists. Now
there's a lot of things that could explain these spectacular, accurate hits but
overall. Now it's not going to if it doesn't show that this is. This is real, because these are the the hits there is so much garbage produced
that by the time. Ninety ninety five rolled around the CIA was like this is even if
viewing does exist. It so useless
and intelligence tool that we're not gonna, find it anymore. Three taken other break.
Figure. Break will be right back after this
all right, so here
the deal and this sort of the big question which you kind of answered before the break
Is it necessary it's how much there was a nice tease. Isn't it the useful spy tool,
we can have fun all day, finding something in doing these one expert.
And getting them sort of right or not, but the whole
purpose. Of all of this was: can we
actually use. This stuff is actionable evidence or intelligence.
And you can't really, like we said
might be impressed by a certain part of a thing.
You mentioned that is rare, that they ever included like the full drawing or the full discourse on whatever
supposedly sorry, didn't see, they would sort to pick out some
It was right to look. They got this one part right. That's amazing,
that sort of where it ended the with the with the gallantry crane. You know that guy
that Gentry Crane right, but there were there, was so much
stuff. That was wrong. That they said we can't use this right
and that sort of the point of all this is. We can't use this stuff as intelligence, because it's just partial
people that defended, it would say
in Jordan Macmurdo goes. One of them said this isn't supposed to be the end I'll be all this is supposed to work
alongside real intelligence and just see if it could help support some of this stuff.
Give them a hint in the right direction to start using real intelligence, and it was never supposed to be a stand alone. The
you go in like rate a russian village, because some remote viewers said there was a nuclear weapon, there's something yea.
I think the CIA always viewed is there too, and that, like it, was benign. It was very cheap and inexpensive,
and be done easily, but the problem is like
If you have somebody who's, producing tons and tons of garbage intelligence. The analysts still has to sift through that and in some of the garbage
elegance. There may be something that leads them down the wrong path in a while they're doing that they miss
some other large that that actually is useful and good, and so it's kind of like a metaphor for what pseudoscience in general does a society like there is garbage on there,
kind of distracts you from the stuff that you could be doing. That would actually be beneficial. That's what it did to intelligent analysts too, and that's why
they ultimately abandoned the whole programme right, but for twenty years they thought you know.
Three big reasons why I was attractive and they all can a boil down to why not which needs it's a passive offer.
require a lot of resources, its you know him
people they had remote viewing it their max, but I doubt if it was that many it didn't consulates.
Million bucks years and that much money and a defence budget and then
it's what are known as no known defence, so
If it's working, let's say than the enemy
It really stop this. I guess, except for reading these people
tracking down and killing them her but ass. I
from that, those are the three reasons for twenty years. They threw six.
Bucks, ear at it and ensure that can a wavered in and out. But you know you
in a Europe where you million dollars now, I think,
spend twenty million dollars over twenty years. I was at all
yeah man, that was it for the whole of the whole time. Why are they live in six million a year? No, I think it might have been Optus like six million dollars at the end of it over over the course of it and in it I don't think this is really in a surly adjusted for inflation, but starting in seventy five and ending a ninety five. Twenty million dollars. You know on paper is what got spent gotcha
the source years. It was like yours, a hundred thousand dollars in a bucket, a weed kind think so
some great coolly, insulting
twenty million bucks, but yeah. That's not a lot of money, for you know if you're talking overall defence budgets, no its not, and so is it so cheap that worry were either
Vaguely promising or vaguely helpful this year would have been fools not to keep funding there. Sir, the did the defence Department would have been falls not to keep funding
somebody you and I could he kept finding if we really put our minds to it, but it did not
Lee wasn't useful it it did not. It was actually harmful as far as and intelligence to
is concerned. That was, I think, what I gather from them. Finally, cancelling
yeah in this. You know this last bit about the representative from North Carolina, Charlie rose, not d, not the the tv guy who's turned out to be quite a jerk, but
he kind of summed it up, and this is why I think the deal is is if- and this is what
to begin with, if you think the soviets are doing this, you can't just sit back early.
That's the rationale, you can't sit back and say: well, it's it's problem
so silly, and not even real, but
were certainly not gonna. Let them be the only
this yeah yeah like if the risky
we sure as hell better beyond it ourselves. I think luckily
it's going to say luckily, mentality, fair with cold war, but its back everybody
you're back here. They are big time. People were Fanny path,
Apparently there are some what's that
thing where like you'd touched, the shirt and like your hampering would be a color
oh sure like the the heat he church or whatever I can
murmured their carbon aways valiantly back here. Ladies your back, so that's it! That's projects.
Gate. There is a lot to read about it. If you are fascinated by whether your fascinated by it, it's completely cracked
thing are you like? No, I don't believe you just chuck. I think you're covering up for
in the year. One million
more about it, and, in particular I wanted. I wanted. Also you to Mars exploration may know about project started. If you want an hour,
classified transcript from a remote viewing session of Mars, where they asked that I think Joseph
heroin to wander around Mars
the year, one million bc in its fascinating stuff, but it also
the AIDS epidemic growing up around so much heroin messes with you
If you want to know drug, he said that kind of thing is heroin. We, I guess, zero time now for listener, opiate
we call this heroin vodka- and this is from anonymous YO thanks for your hair when podcast guessed-
though, when he was arrested. The kid was never the same. It's very difficult
using two neighbourhood of Philadelphia, it's one of the largest drug markets in the world, most of which is heroin.
Ground zero. Now for the opium epidemic growing up
which heroin messes with you. My childhood best friends turned to sex work too
for a while, we play video games upstairs
four oh dealing in middle school, the class clowns dad
one of the biggest runners in the city, so when he was arrested, the kid was never the same. It's very
if to explain what being around groups of people on Heroin is like the link below
an excellent New York Times article about the Kensington Avenue area? Luckily, for me, I
I got out relatively unscathed. Lotta people see people
addicted his animals and criminals. I struggle with.
I stand. I know as a group, it's a public health issue, but it is also
hard, when looking at the individual's actions. Kensington was
class haven from the early.
To mid nineteenth century until the crack epidemic of the eighties. According to my parents, a Sunday event was walking too.
Shops on Kensington Avenue did not happen after that. In that
here's the article it is called trapped by the Walmart of Heroin, but Jennifer Percy from New York Times October, twenty eighteen
And that is from anonymous
man alive anonymous, I'm glad you made it our alive totally, because there is very scary stuff for men,
It's crazy makes you realize what what what a watery birth is. You now not just like your Socio
Nama class or your race, or what country are born into but like where? What neighborhood you born into two now I never heard of it.
I have neither read an article that looks good. Well thanks. A lot
and we appreciate you get in touch with us and if you want to get in touch with this, please do you can send us an email to stuff pocket.
Did I heart radio dot com
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Transcript generated on 2020-06-09.