More canoes short surf, unjust and there's jugglers Jerry Sitting inferred producer, producer, Dave And- and this is short stuff I have already said- that's right and we're talking about books. What is a book? What is in the book old, those that book in the window sure the one with the way you detail right to get going. I thought we already had, but yes, let's get going. So there's this book in in the National Museum of History in Bulgaria, and it is what some people considered the oldest book in the world. Have you seen pictures of it? I have it six pages of gold sheet. Thank the pages are gone

old and not like they took paper in put gold around it or the edges are gilded. It is like a sheet of gold medal and their six pages, like that and they're bound together and it's written in Etruscan in the Etruscans, were the direct predecessors to the Romans they kind of ran the area. I think that Haiti was around five hundred BC, IE and they're kind of this mysterious group, because we haven't deciphered there there writing yet. But we know that this is an interesting book. And so a lot of people say there- you have it everybody. The oldest book in the world is called the gold or physical book, and this is it. Yes, it is actual multiple pages, like you said it is bound. There are illustrations, there's a mermaid and a harp and some soldiers in a hoarse writer, and you know that they say two things:

twenty five hundred years old. They found it along the River Strom, a river in south western Bulgaria and a tomb it was donated. This is ok. mysterious those donated by an anonymous person and then authenticated by two anonymous scientists. Yeah Jill sketchy sounds like aliens to me, but the debate thence did well, that's not true. There's always been debates about what is the oldest. This was the oldest, that was the oldest book, and, if you think about all this book, it becomes a little bit of an esoteric question, because you have to ask yourself is a book. Could it be a clay tablet and earth Scroll Orne, you know, can it be something that is an exit like doesn't tell a story? It's just like accounting records summarily have to sort of define what a book

his first. Yes, I mean a lot of people would define a book by its physical attributes right like it's a certain shape, it's bound together. That's a big one for a lot of people. Some people say ass to be on paper, which weighed discount the gold ORF Ism book, and then other people say no. It's discarded like tell Story say, and it can be on anything in it doesn't have to be bound together, and this is when everybody is oh boy here we go right comes another debate on what constitutes a book here, but it's not an angry debate. Is it no? It's not angry but yeah, I'm angered by and because I think it is largely unnecessary and there is a person cited in this house to forks article who, I suspect, purposefully obfuscate. This initiated this debate because they don't want

question ever to be answered. Are you talking about Laurent fairy yeah? This is curator of rare books and manuscripts a core now Cornell and they are actually interviewed for this house to works article about eleven years ago in Cornell in possession of these clay tablets that they maintain, the largest in the world and their pretty old in some people might say: will those are books? But most of those, like I said about like tax records, their financial records legal proceedings- they don't spouse, the world view. So I think therein that means they are not books. Yet Laurent Fairy says a book would be

thing that has a binding and that a spouses, a world view right. So yeah you can discount those clay tablets. Third, there they just don't they don't count as a book, but other people they would count as a book. So so they they civil, ok, Laurent, very what ways the oldest book, then in ferry, said either homers Iliad or the epoch of Gilgamesh. The problem is- and this is where I think Laurent fairies purposefully doing this- is to keep this debate going because they like to talk about this kind of stuff, so the epoch of guilt mesh, the oldest. It is a very old book. The british Museum has won, but it's written on clay tablets from the seventh century BC. Ie then go, and yet it's not bound. So the very example that this curator gave, as the oldest book doesn't even fall within their own parameters in

Here's where I started getting angry, I will take a break them, for you can hold out and hawks mash her head and we'll be right back to well we're gonna settle any debate, but will the stock about it more making more mad, Have you ever wondered how e commerce brains that you admire? No just the right messages descend to just the right people at the right time. Well, guess what it's not experience! They have the right data in the room tools, they have clavijo caveats. Data driven marketing automation platform is sophisticated enough to power. Those legendary campaigns from the brains you admire, but they made it simple, easy and fast enough for anyone to use yet clavijo helps brains easily create personalize, Multi channel marketing campaigns using your most powerful asset. Your customer data plus building a marketing campaign is dragon.

easy in get started with your first campaign and under an hour and just build from their with clay vetoes best performing templates, clavijo you all the power of an enterprise, marketing automation, platform and none of the complexity. So you can compete with the big eyes. No wonder more than sixty five thousand brands. Just can't get enough to get started with a free trial of Clavijo visit, clavijo dot com. Slash, I hurt me that's k, L Av, I why oh dotcom, Slash Iheart radio right. That's, let's get back to me, getting man. Well, depends on who you talk to you. If you start bringing religion into it and all the stuff, then of course you're going to have people that say you might have Christians to say well, the Bible is clearly the oldest book, because the world is, you know the only if you

years old and the Bible was written right after that. So what's older than that, Bob right, exactly in biblical scholars, will say. scientists will say actually the bibles written over many many him of years allotted these stories that written, were the hundreds of years after the events that they're talking about even right, but they don't say that to the people who say that the world's a few thousand years old in the Bible was written right after they, the scholars turned to the rest of us and say: well, obviously, these things were written over centuries after these events soldier. I am here to think that's another thing that lorry very does is what about religion

Why would you bring that part into it? That's not fair they're just trying to do this, and then there was another one to that they said to is well, you know some books or not. It's not like the stories were created out of whole cloth right when the books are written. A lot of them are based on oral traditions and is oral traditions far predate any of the the books that are these oldest books that are written and it does not match it does not matter if the book is a brand new story, but is still older than any other book, then a book that was published in the fifties, based on an oral tradition from five thousand years ago, that Older book is going to be the older book. This Laura fairy person is really getting undermine. Yeah, it can't be a book. Is it a story? A book is a story that been bound and written, and I'm you know what I'm doing my definition. It doesn't have to be bound if you gimme a scroll. Ok

at this: got a good beginning middle an end to it. Then that's about so there's prepare either. Five hundred years old that would, there would qualify, and because I mean it's a book, but it's just one long page. That's about! Ok, me so were hot on the trail here, at least as far as what you consider a book, I mean care work. Wrote down Rosa toilet paper right, he rode on. I was arose, a toad I know Renault was very long role of of paper over like forty eight or seventy two hours or something like that and like it. That was the story in the book, but you can't sell stuff like that sea have to bind them in the traditional form, so you can put them on yourself

exactly, but yet was it not a book before when I was just on one long scroll, it's a really great point now getting matted us. No, not us fairy fairy. Laurent fairy out again are there's. Another question is what constitutes a book or a kind of book you talking by, for talking about a printed, look in the in the understanding of printing that we have here in the modern world will then that's easy to settle the Gutenberg Bible or the the book printed right before the good. Bird bible me. I wish I were too looked it up. I just for I forgot about. It did a whole episode. I know, but whenever book Gutenberg put out first that would that would qualify within a member. In that episode we talked about China had printers that they didn't use movable type they they used would block printing, but they were still printing books does so in ok, but then other people say well,

for printing before automatic printing. There was hand writing, but they were cattle writing books or cable. The now you're talking about manuscripts. So so, actually you come back to the biblical people and say well. What you got in this way will we have manuscripts? There were written in the fourth century, that's pretty old! Isn't it and yet and that's pretty old, but is it is? Is it any more of a book than the gold orfis in book right, I don't even know where we are now in this debate. To be honest because I'd, I think, I'm asking myself into a corner that I painted myself into? Do you can't just walk right out of it say what I now think think it can be handwritten cause. Jack Kerouac was riding with his hand. I think it can be on a scroll guy can't be an oral story, get right,

I'm going to say it doesn't have to be bound. If you want to sell it, it might have to be bound, but then you're getting into consumerism in, like you know that whole argument, I think it has to be connected in some way so like if it's one long scroll, those pages are still connect, Yeah, so what he is saying, if they slice that's, grow up into a hundred sheets into stacked Ammonites, not about the main characters: etruscan gold sheets- that are not connected, that that would not really qualified. Look like the gold if, as in book, that are actually older than the gold organism book, but they wouldn't Keller, just pages you got pages, not a book pages are part of a book. Guess it's here at point I should reveal to the world, but that I am Laurent fairy. Oh my gosh you just. Of his master in first he was born

euchre, and then he was Lord fair behaviour. Further from, I think those words but, like the Miller, Russians right, I thought is like great Gunnar something go back on what some of the sometimes on Youtube is. Your fantastic yeah. They really it was Miller, it wasn't, it Yeah Miller lay great bits of nostalgia. While we raise on tv weren't, we demonstrate while tell you who was raised on books, Laurent free, you know, knew was raised on radio journey a threat, and how can you get any better as far as endings Golden agreed shortstop is that stuff, you should know, is the production of Iheart radio. From our past, my heart radio visit that I hurt radioactive apple had cast over

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