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They had worked into the park. Gaston Josh fuck with me, as always is Charles. The beach Bryant in Annexes should know the chimpanzee centric frequently. I told you about the time a temper, my handwriting Elsie suppressing her. I mean, I think about it today. My partners little just a little you're, we be guy- you have is like ten twelve years ago and ourselves worn off yet still melting them by degrees. Do you think it will melt forever? Every time I think, of that little champ holding my hand, it will not be sustainable Why don't you just go by jumping? You can ever happen all the time do that if I didn't have three dogs and cats, I would have a champion my hands. Really, even after that, one story when we blogging. It happened at him, the legal base for some toward yeah. I would because

with such a big deal. It may the news- and I think it does- that didn't happen all the time. Ok out, totes have a jump. When did you start talking like that? You're talking, like my friend Adam and its under answer, stout yeah he's bottlenecks like that, like everything's abbreviated, yeah yeah, I mean I do that I'm touched on the toads trained me are you I don't think it's funny, but areas, Latin Jesus, duster thing, natural, ok, I'll! That's also, although I know that a stunt like it, I never did tell taken here no more than that. Ok mover! Ok, you Eddie! Yes check! I tell you about a certain lady. Her name is winter. And she has kind of a rough life story with you. She was born into a family in disarray. You might say she's point nineteen, fifty four and when she was Two years old, her mother died after being mistakenly poisoned her

mothers father her grandfather? He was more fanatics who died as a result of his addiction. Her grandmother, maternal grandmother, diet of dysentery on her father, said she's, one of forty green kids. You believe that she's adopted out a very young age for return back home at each three fifteen. When she had her first daughter and her daughter is borne down syndrome. While she died at seventeen months. Eventually went on have another boy and a boy other girl and here's the mind blowing part she's. In pansy. Yes well I recognise that coming I was sitting there like. How is there a way to do this at the top of the cheap It's got. Somebody

not now because it sounded like you, were talking about a human story but think about all of the stuff that her family went to if they were sure means when she feel pretty bad for the well feel bad for one could do and here's why she is. As far as everyone knows, the oldest primate incorrect Vicky that still being used for research and all the sheer in Atlanta was born in nineteen. Fifty four ok she's been experimented on ever since she went back to the yorkists priming instituted aged three and her mom. The one who is mistakenly poisoned was one of the original ones that yerkes I got his hand while in the EU at the forties right now the thirties twenties. Well, then, the twenties, yes, is Robert Yerkes started

Messing around with the behavioral research, not as much medical research, know at first, you think like, oh well, that's that's a way better. But if you have you looked into some of the behavioral experiments that they require I'm sure it's not one so like one one young Jim from. I believe for this. The first thirty six months of his life had like plastic or some sort of obstruction over his hands in his feet. So we can use either of them for the first three years of life law, social isolation like Kim spent the first two three years life without seeing hearing touching end Yes, it's like a laboratory, yes, very much! So when it little Albert yet Little ever was on a human, though the sugar conditioning, the big equivalent to that was Harry, Harlow experimentation of separating chimps,

from their mothers right and raising them with like wire and cotton fake reconstructions that they would claim to an entry to their mother, because what he found from these experiments that moms are really important, that the saddest thing I've ever heard. So we're talking about. We started this often well remembered. Didn't this isn't the brightest of topics, although the ending is fairly uplifting, yet ITALY's headed that where we went wrong it, so he took me such up here, we have only just the last few years come to think their animals. Some sort of rights right. It's very new idea. Isn't it is newish? Ok for show, like maybe eighteenth century newish yeah England leads the way our british friends passed. The first anti cruelty

ass against animals in eighteen, twenty two! Well, even before that Jeremy Bentham, he wrote a paper on how animals could possibly suffer, and maybe we should start treating them differently late. Seventeen hundred yacu does to him yeah, and did you know that he is mummified and they bring his body out for the sum annual dinner financing with the stars. Ethic Holly he's a judge at the college where he was a professor, really they bring his body for dinner every year, while not crazy a little weird, we'll get for him village great. By the way, does he really so Peter didn't start until nineteen? Eighty alot of people might think that peat has been around like since a sixty year, supremacy fairly new and then the american society for the prevention of cruelty to animals.

Started in eighteen. Sixty six, so pretty new and in a world view right by picture specifically in its general animal rights yet but chimps in particular there. I guess the idea that they may be deserve even more special rights than the average lab rat is based on something that also fairly recent, which is there discovery or the idea that we share a tremendous amount of similarity with them. There's no other animal that is closer to humans than chance right. Yeah

the numbers just over ninety eight percent. Ninety five percent of dna sequence: ninety eight to nine percent of DNA, the ice parent, the other part from abroad expelled should written. That now, we'll know, that's very like people throw that out like chimps. Are ninety eight percent similar to humans and it's very misleading the like you said the genetic secret of the chromosomes that we share, or that are similar in apron humans are ninety eight percent similar. Ok, we're not it's not like. If you took our dna and put its side by side right, the only two percent will be different right right now, like that and in fact, ships have ten percent more dna in humans. Do I really am very misleading say, but the point is right: they are,

Harry genetically similar, probably more than any other animal, and we know that, since the twenties yeah in similar enough to that at a certain point, people said you know what we spare minute on human prisoners long enough They say we can't do it anymore drag. So, let's get these chips here and give them disease, and here we reached the title of the podcast. There is as much as we would like to think that it is a very easy moral ethical question like should chimps be used for medical research. It's not now.

As if you were saying before. If you like, walking around not having polio or Hepatitis B yeah, you can go ahead. Thank it chimp for volunteering. I'm sorry away! Tat was the absolute worst for it. I could hear the com for being a basically test animal on those vaccines and treatments same with contraceptives. If you like our understanding of addiction, you can think chimps for their for being a space animal. Let's go ahead. Called out? That's where it all began, the? U S, Airforce said hey: we got a space race goin on. Let's go get some chimps from the wild shoot em up into space, put him in sled cars, testy forces on and see what can happen, but among the g was rockets, I guess what's his face was

A little tired at that point that yeah, you didn't think of other Blug pooled in his retinas, so pre NASA Airforce went and got sixty five chimpanzees from the wild. A lot of these chimps are used our descendants of those original chimps, because they couldn't keep going to get him after the the convention on international trade in endangered species and seventy, by which basically said like a man, you can't just start counting grabbing chimpanzees, her bright other end. Out of the wild their endangers actually so they started reading these chimps right, they're, the ones.

Eddie had after sites was passed. They said: ok, we'll start making, I'm here in Amerika, making them maiden. America, yes, chimps, and I did find it odd or not. I, but a little like distressing, that some of those with a lot of Egypt today are descended from those original. Sixty five because of breeding may make sense, but who knew well same with Yerkes his primates that he had the twenties those original for there was a cattle breeding programme as well. I think he definitely supplemented with imports yeah. You know because it was prior to say but he had a bright bread. He bread them, they bread and has provided they did it yeah. Unlike you pointed out. We should say that Turkey is now in it here every university after being in Florida for Somebody is a move to Atlanta and sponsored by Yale before here and they get two point. Five acre

the main station here in Atlanta and then in Lawrence will just up the road they have the field station. A hundred and seventeen acres of a chimpanzee breeding and testing facilities. It's worth chimps go to. Their drugs. Chimpanzees are endangered. Their native to Africa. And because, their similarities. They thought you now this HIV thing in the eighties. Maybe we should start injecting these camps and see how and if they develop That's what changed everything they championing often of sites in the appearance of AIDS, combined similarity like really changed everything we had a cat, the breeding programmes, the federal government sponsored it. It ends

became very, very big and the serious new disease, the other fear of AIDS and HIV, with so enormous that they buy within just a few years of the cattle breeding programme that was started by the National Institutes of Health in eighteen. Eighty six, I think, maybe within a year to there were, I think, five hundred chimps running round with HIV, the try, the big problem arises. We found out that, while they can carry HIV in chimps are the only other animal. Besides humans, they can contract HIV right because cats have their own dogs, have their own right, other other apes and primates. But only but only humans and Chintz can have HIV. We found the chimps, don't get aids they can they not moving the full blown aids yeah at least not like humans? Do

So it was kind of a big failure on that front. In all the progress we ve made on AIDS, Richard is then, because of human experimentation, new, basically or watching in seeing well here is another nineteen sixty six, the animal well Welfare ACT outline minimum care requirements for all animals and kept captivity. Rights of these chips were in a before the sites programme, the ones that they reporting. They still had some sort of protection, but it wasn't. You know there were that many belgian whistles it was pretty pretty Southwest airlines, not really Singapore AIR Vienna out that you'll, like Virgin Atlantic Gruesome, Singapore. A really nice sat there with like Emirates, Emirates, Singapore, Japan, airlines pretty nicely anchored

that we should do, and do you remember the time that fill Collins played a show in London lighted and am flute was a fly they play too shows it and two different continents within like early Iver six hours of each other awesome. Thank you concord. Thank you for Collins, yeah. Well, that that might go without saying I can just opened my shirt and train my t shirt and by the way, that's a huge urban legend that he saw his girlfriend rapist in the audience. Drowning Natur makes for a good story. Who is like pets who is Nancy, closing their two of the most powerful people in government today, but how they get might. I saw Mauro and on who is the first podcast from now this and I heart radio I'll, tell you the stories of the most important politicians in America and beyond through interviews with the reporters and experts who know them best

is no Illuminati, there's no deep state, but there are these people on who is. For everything from sent a majority leader, Ms Mcdonald, answering machine to senator as with warns favorite junk food to wear secretary education, Betsy Divorce and our husband went on the first day, one no more tune in to Louis, on Tuesdays and the I radio up apple pie, guests or wherever you get your by guests right to animal welfare act. You said it was a dinner. The bells and whistles said: temperatures had to stay in forty five and eighty five degrees, Fahrenheit, not bad, keep alma comfortable, you gotta, given food and water, gotta isolate the sequence, even though you can get a waiver on that. If they're supposed to be sick among their their friends right, imagine that wasn't you how to get

exception and I'm basically applied to all chimpanzees for both Biomedical M Behavioral research, which will get an all animals any animal, its being experimented on anyone. Blooded animal for in captivity period. Ok, by giving it a just applied to Susan, I really got to us so we have an place and sixty six sites came along and seventy five, the chimpanzee breeding programme came on nineteen, it six and then when that collapsed and failed, the? U S: government was like what are we gonna do here? We ve got literally hundreds of chimps running round with HIV there like if they come in contact with people here, especially Seko's. They could spread well and they don't live to be twelve know they were down sixty here so that any costs might mean a house and found that it came back today here so than sound like a lot, but

that adds up, especially when there is only about. I think, five hundred that had HIV but there is something in the order of like twelve to fifteen hundred that were that the government was responsible for, and it wasn't just the failure of the HIV Aids studies. We can thank Jane Goodall and groups like Peter and ass pc, ay and humane society in the early eighties around this time, when Chimp researchers really at its peak for kind of a learning, the public to the the cruelty of animal testing and research, the army, the twelve monkeys, yeah. Thank them. I did to talk a little bit about the cow, Stenner, constant foundation that is now defunct? It was shut down in two thousand to and here's the deal it's

to virtual, depending on who you ass, Frederick Colson was the guy, who was a toxicologists to help develop treatment for malaria and Hepatitis B and AIDS, or that was a house of whores and he performed experiments on and prisoners and then moved the chimps, and you know when one test chimps had their teeth smashed in with a steel bars, so they could practice. I reconstruct reconstructed them forgery, ninety, ninety, five, three chimps were cooked to death in future. In there and this New Mexico in their unmonitored enclosure top two hundred and forty degrees cash and nineteen, only three, thirty three champs and I think already like forty four animals and all died quote unintended death at the constant foundation. So you know

It sounds like some offer awful thing going on, but then again he's developing these treatments for these awful diseases. So it's a very dicey situation Odin but they were shut down in two thousand to because negligent care on water fronts in any any amendments. There are plenty of people who have like a really good there. They have really good ground stand. I myself, like any animal testing, is bad and it doesn't matter how well you treat these animals. I shouldn't be experimenting right where they put on this earth to test to save humans, some people back that some people don't write. So, oh, are you know very recently I saw there was some researcher associate with the centre for great apes

yeah. The apparently there's like a number of em and one of them's in Moyne, and apparently somebody slash the heels of an infant chimp to keep it from being able to stand upright in this is like December, like a couple months ago, while so one of the one of the recent as it has acted as a whistle blower ear or for attack, not that I don't think that was the. I don't think that was the experimenter get was related to earlier, but one of the researchers there was like I'm getting this chimp and all the rest from out of here and taken him down to another centre for great apes, for the main one in yeah. Well, just finish up on the Kosovo nation. The good news is as of two thousand ten about half of the TCP chimps

are now living at saved the chimps, which is basically we want to be your retard jump. Yeah swinging plan run around eaten bananas, holding hands off that get cheap stuff. So well, let's talk about this that the result- of a that sea change. That was started by Jane Goodall, EM and PETE Iron, the animal liberation front and Matthew, broader yeah. Wasn't that project etc? an interesting. We request. I decided I didn't realize this project ex was a movie that raised awareness for mistreatment of chimps, obviously in medical research, but by Barker at the time, accuse them of mistreating animals on the set, your here's, a huge you get animal cruelty.

He got sued for defamation for that year and settled out of court actually against his wishes. He settled out of court. Does he still believe that there were mistreated? Unlike said that, there were like clubs and Billy clubs and batons used in these, like a snake, to scare the champs and start to get reactions. Evidenced, it's a joke, a prank on said between teeth, but yet project ecstasy. It will not get eaten your than theatre, you mean you time machine. Did you see the fairest below commercial? At that? I thought at the corner of my eye at the superb out where you disgusted. I was looking forward to it about it beforehand, and it was this free. Then they man he's gotta supporters, kids out dude, I'm sure he made a mid good for him

So ok, we're talking about Matthew Roderick in his career, yes, which led directly to a sea change in how people feel about animal testing and specifically about chimpanzee testing, which can evidenced by the fact that Congress, in its endless ability to pass legislation with cutesy names and acronyms another swallows. Surprise me, even in two thousand Congress pants the chimpanzee health improvement, maintenance in Protection ACT and guess what that spells out. Chimp yeah. They pass the Chimp ACT in two thousand and basically the said your capture breeding pro. And was gone. I want a chip is retired from biomedical testing their or a behavioral testing a bully to you are you can't, kill it? Sorry, all those monkeys, around with HIV. You can't euthanize on you have here for the ride for their care. For the rest, it

Eliza Natural natural life, sure it's a pretty cool, it's bad enough that you gave given them HIV at least care for them by this extends only as far as I know, to federally funded chimp programmes, pharmaceutical companies right their own, its federally funded and pharmaceutical companies. All the chimps in the United States are owned by them that our path, I should say right- they are the first to companies, exist outside of this act. Of course,. Such ass- if I were to ask you how many countries in the world and the world experiment on chimpanzees legally. What would be answer, I would say, since the United States sit a is such a standard bearer

yeah of human rights and animal rights to that. If the United States still allows it at least ninety two hundred and five other countries allow testing and chimpanzees. Am I right? You did a very java playing down there by the way now United States in Gabon are the only two he's in the world that still perform biomedical testing on chimpanzees, ninety seven great Britain said no more Netherlands, two thousand too. I can't even speak Dutch. There would be a travesty In two thousand three Austria, two thousand six Japan, two thousand six everyone said- were drawn a line in the sand. United States still allows it, but two months ago, three months ago, December of last year, picnic The age suspended all new grants, awesome whereby

medical and behavioral. Research on chimps are eighth, the grit, the great apes which, by chimps the great apes, are chimps guerrillas bonobos in a ring attained. Correct so they suspended all new grants. That doesn't mean you can. Best anymore, but they basically establish some pretty rigorous criteria, forward, which means it's gotta, be This theory for human health and there must be no other possible way to accomplish it, and basically, it's kind of being looked at the beginning of the end because their finding that nowadays, with cultures and cellular research, you dont need to experiment on ships anymore. You can find out all you need to know: petri dish yeah then I said hey over the next four years: we're gonna hyper charge are biomedical testing yeah. So we so we, like you, said a convinced existing petri dish. From now on. We don't want it,

Basically single cell animals, ur gonna, start to bear the brunt far our desire, ceaseless quest for, immortality, but you can't hold the hand of an amoeba no, but if you could I'll bet, it would melt I do see, apparently one or two areas that they think it could still be useful for and dumb, but it sounds like there Genuinely phasing it out straight, it's about time, Sup, therefore, that it'll just be young above their heads off to places like save the champs in what was on the other one. The centre for great apes, which, by the way, I don't want to defend them at all, not even for legal reasons like they do a good job. I look them up. I looked up. Save the chimps, haven the great project. I found one in Massachusetts and if you go and stimulate the charity, watches and in writing

there's nothing bad for them, except for the fact that they haven't file with Irish, even though they should for some reason. The this morning, sir, doesn't have anything on these goals, I thought I heard with their they all of them seemed to be legit, but the great eight project, the one that's mentioned in this some article. There lobbies, on behalf of the great apes for testing and basically animal rights, their located in Brazil, but he thinking you seen great ape the grape a project the centre for great apes is for feeding good too. I couldn't find much on anything, seem to smack of like the caused him found nation and yet, while the costs, because of our nation, actually morphed into saved the Champs, ok, so yeah yeah, that's implored her yet for Pierce

along with cheap haven in the fauna foundation, they're gonna, their chimps sanctuaries. It's a nice thing yet so I guess go there, given some money asked in exchange for a team to hold your hand, do not feed, chimps and depressed and keep them at your house is out will happen to the one member. The woman's like, oh yeah, he's on the presidency of he shouldn't have done this in our basic wait. What did you just say it like nothing, but you remember However, the need to present here came allocate coach, unlike the today, shows something like these after she was like. I had a Montana presence are happening, pushing she's method to where she yeah. She was It was pretty nearly o the year later, the other victims of something man. Ok? Well, we were all over the place there.

If you can figure out where we, where we stand on. This has to be anything else about chips, Great apes now one pansies rang a Tangs macaws without a bird madame macabre cleanliness, that's every which way at dinner anything I can Clyde right now. You're right turn: glide Bonobo, Barnabas, Bonobo, rang, attains guerrillas and chance. That's right in humans, zip. The champ was my favorite toy growing up her little hands, you could squeeze and it made a little squeaky noise. So yeah that was my favorite toy safety, the champ fastened at the check and get one an Ebay look. Here's mine is probably disintegrated. Chasm. Ninety I'm glad somebody finally

If we are living in complicated times, I'm seventy rule MSNBC Anchor and NBC News correspondent in my new podcast modern rules, I'm gonna be time unpacking some of the Harry's of today's top decided asking you survived survival price back. People were board. They won't need its american listen and subscribe to my new podcast monument, an apple five test, the iron radio or wherever you get a packet, ok words for chimps. Then I was not expecting you dimension that when I said, if you haven't here is actually just remember those injured person. Twice a year. If you want to learn more about James and biomedical testing, including the delightfully named Chimp ACT of two thousand, you can type What's it called check what happens the chimps use of medical research

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