It seems like it should be easy, but it's not just getting out of bed and getting your day started, trying to accomplish everything you need to do in your day that to do list as a lot easier when you're getting news stories and music to lift your mood and preparing for the day ahead connected to the things that make you laugh and make you think or make you want to reach out and share with a friend every morning with us, it's Elvis Doran in the morning show listen to us on cue, one or two or anywhere in the world. On the I hurt radio app Eight March is tripod month. My friend, and you know that means yes, it means it's time to. Let people know about your favorite podcast just to share the sheer joy podcast listening is right. T r, why pod though, when they sit industry. While people don't know podcast are frightened and helps everybody out, if you would go out and to say, hey family member, to see it Thanksgiving once a year, You should try to think out upon. Yes, here's what they are here to cool

you should try and here's how to get it yet, and it doesn't have to be our so just any podcast. You like in general that you think someone else would like to share, get on board that provides train. Welcome to stop. You should now Hasta for Stockholm and welcome to the Pakistan Josh Clark NEWS, Charles, the beach of bright nurse, Jerry Establishment, crime and punishment part eight a lot of stuff on this, and I thought you got more come in. I kept keep saying we're done, but were not done because, while we touched on solitary confinement in our prisons, episode, which was a great one, was it have you gone back and listen recently, just making assumption nowadays room rub: ermine, robe, Vienna, Goodwin

Stands out, shirt is one work at once. This is, as you know, a little more robust look. It solitary confinement in the ins and outs mostly out, don't you think, yes, I did notice me there's like a whole growing body of people who are a kind of screen. Their heads off, I guess, yeah sale. I came person and a tiny room with no end action or stimulation for twenty three hours a day, not good for you as a human right and in a lot of people are going so far as to say this. This constitutes cruel inhuman punishment. Yes, come on guys who kosis for human rights. We talked about their noses episode, yeah yeah, where the animal goes insane yeah. What it tonight is Steve Mcqueen in the great escape.

Throwing the baseball against the wall can with how they do. They feel like a half hour. Normally, would give you a baseball now. That's true, you know nothing funny you're cute about it. I shall we, so solitary. It is a huge, controversial thing right now, because some alot of proponent say it's extremely necessary and that this is just the the way that Europe was to punish people or that it's just me, even without punishment or other people say no. This is cruel and inhuman, like we said, regardless of how you slicer is actually in american products to an American, export its being used all over the world right now, yeah and depending on where you are and what prison year and they might call it. Something else have a lot of. I mean it.

This article, the House of Works, article d, you know colored, like lockdown, restrictive housing, segregation, isolation, but I saw a lot more creative names that prisons use but you know try to shine it up a bit right is something other than what it is a boom in what it is, no matter what you call it is its confining a prisoner to a relatively small cell. I saw usually eight by ten or less, and I also saw that frequently compared to us a horse stable in which comparison, the the prison cell actually comes out, the smaller the two and you can find that person. This is the key can finally person to the small sulphur between twenty three and twenty four hours a day every day, yeah. Well, I think twenty two to twenty. They, like some people, never leave,

depends on the day, Sir okay, so in some cases you'll be confined like that for twenty three hours a day and then one hour a day. Oh you get out to exercise and shower shower, but maybe that's just a week right. So a weekend you'd be in there for forty eight straight hours right or may longer. If the guard it doesn't like you or is in a bad mood, they might do not let you out that day and we don't want to paint the corrections officers as you know, the movies do a good enough job of the rising them yea and if you look into the sum of the people who are being held in solitary on the people who started solitary years and have said no longest. You can, understand why some one would want to keep them as far away from people as possible here. So I get it. I think it's a complex issue, it's not cut and dried there's, not

obvious villain in this story and obvious victim in a story. Yes, like us, and we wanted demonize them because it enough in media and certainly films, Tom Hanks aside, I guess, when the green mile he does, he can't help but be delightful. He pleaded well. He was actually kind of those about say road to perdition. He was the good guy is an anti here. Yeah a bit of an eighty year, but anyway would I get it do that, but that does still happen. You know there. That's why prison reform is still a thing, because there still is a lot of abuse. That happens in certain prisons and among certain prison guards and correctional officer, so it certainly not something has been solved. A dislike to see way. A little bit is another. We have prison guards, it was nor shall ensure we we should say the whole point of solitary is too low

human contact as much as possible. Yet so, even though you are maybe interacting with a guard here there, it's when this your meal in three times a day, and that's it you don't see people, you you exercise alone. Everything you're doing is alone. That's the point, that's why they call it solitary. It is so there's a couple of types of cigarettes That can happen once called disciplinary segregation. That is pretty obvious. You have done thing that has run a foul of the prison rules which range from legitimate things. Like you know, you start. Fires Are you attacked another inmate or you? No good with an extra honey bun. Maybe so are you you stole something too. More petty things, and that's where that's we're solitary gets real hanky, like maybe talk back to a guard.

And they didn't like here in that city like I, you go the whole for thirty days re or maybe somebody snitch done you and you were framed clan, clear, simple right. Disciplinary segregation, there's also administrative segregation, and this you might be put in their if, let's say your sex who'd notoriously have a rough time in prison or you- a gang member who has started some trouble and in a basically there trying to protect supposedly trying to protect the prisoner harm, foot yeah by isolating them from the population yet whether they want whether they want to stay in the regular population or not that decisions made for them right just one type of administrative. You cannot be put in if the regular cells or fall, and there is full up. So sorry, gotta get a solid

every with overcrowding. This obviously big deal pretrial you can go in if you're, not even convicted of a crime yet did might be. In solitary, there should be a constitutional amendment. Prevents that yeah read the story. Hacks I've heard it on MP are this weekend, which is what made me think of this thing. There's a documentary on Spike TV called the police, broader story. Is there the kid who stole a backpack Did you hear that they just knew about? It was going on yeah there's this guy cliff outer when he was. I think he was sixteen at the time stole a backpack from a party he and his buddy git. Get out and another in a car got pulled over, but they get arrested. They let the boy I go, but can be proud. Had a prior charge, so they kept him for more than three years and

Rikers Island jail complex in a lot of that was in solitary confinement confinement and this before, like ultimately the church. Were dropped. He wasn't even convicted of a crime right and uses jerry for three years. He finally gets out he committed less than a year after and is just one of the Jeez one more egregious and sad examples of just how broken the system can here in the United States right the another way that being used at that's just as agreed just as pre trial, in my opinion, is to how's the mentally ill right after the eighties when Reagan close down the mass of institutions that have become like huge places of abuse of the mentally ill in favour of more community, servicing yeah of mental health, but then didn't find the community's so

The mentally ill descended upon the street right. Prison became the new institutions housing mentally ill people will apparently a reply who actually how's the mentally ill. In prison, is in solitary confinement here and, as will see, ostensibly just being, solitary confinement, if you have a completely The mind is really really bad for your mental state. If you're, Eddie mentally ill or predisposed to mental illness, it can be a death sentence for it. Yeah and in the United States, they don't have exact numbers because it is in our states, vary in what they consider: confinement, solitary confinement, not water prisons want to participate,

studies, there's no reporting, not very much. You know, but I have the impression that you could be like a Congress person saying like I want to tell you, solitary wing, and you re a turned out. Maybe there's like that level of self administration by the Bureau of Corrections inside prison yes, the numbers vary, but basically most people say up to a hundred thousand inmates in need. States and again not all of these are imprisoned, some of whom are in jail summer, Marina, emigrant temporary. Immigrant housing rate are kept in ice, seven and on there A: u dont go before a court to get put in the hole you You know a prison official will dictate this. There is no recourse for a prisoner, they call the shots. There's no oversight can be indefinite. You can't call you attorney and say: hey I'm in

The theory- and I didn't do anything out of stock back or have been here for six months. Has the guard has a problem with me: there's nothing that can be done basically, no that makes it an extra judicial punishment with no oversight from judges or juries, which is that's, that's not good now, and it's really widespread, not just in the United States but around the world. Now yeah we'll take a break and we'll come back and talk a little bit about how this all got star right after this support. For this part, cast comes from Peter Peter was homes and businesses save money with energy, efficient, LAPD's alleys last up to fifteen times longer than traditional bulbs,

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earlier that this is an american invention, sexually american Quaker invention, the friends society of friends came up with the idea of solitary confinement verse and I feel like we talked, in the prison episode to the whole idea was that The time you know you might be put to labour worker left to hang around your fellow inmates in jail and died behind solitary originally, the Quakers came, a blue is that you should begin, time to reflect on your punishment in quiet solitude, and the hope was that, eventually, you would become penitent and be redeemed in that's where the word penitentiary came from the describe presence at right. This is the late eighteenth century when they came up with it, the Walnut Street jail in Philadelphia, which lovely there's some kind of like a nice place? I bet it wasn't.

Flash for Tibet to the kind of early third of the eighteen hundred in eighteen, twenty, nine eastern state penitent in Pennsylvania. They said you know what that we're gonna try experimenting with how we deal with prisoners. Are we're gonna, try this thing called locked down they found that it didn't work very well. These inmates were socially dysfunctional. Why didn't kill themselves and so in eighteen, twenty nine. They abandoned it and said this is not a good idea here within the first thirty years of being invented there like now, we shouldn't be doing this to people that right and they in favour of the offer and state prison in upstate New York's method of putting people the hard labour that became the p m that what you why you did when you get sent to prison rather than put the solitary right and they kept solitary around like you, didn't go away entirely like biscuit Prison had a whole you get thrown in the whole big it

and the whole for like days or weeks, or something like that, punish you for something you did in the prism yet and they still say like still say it can be a useful tool in prison. If you do put someone in there for three to five days right- or I think the U N says no more than two weeks fifteen days, I think, is what they came up with yeah. So in other point, as is not say like I mean I'm sure there are tons of people a say, you should do it all right. Experts say that it can be a deterrent for you, no poor behaviour, whatever in prison, but people being in there. Months and years. Is the issue at hand right so used sparingly, but it was still around throughout the the most of the twentieth century, Alcatraz famously had DE block, which is like a solitary block here, but then on it. Over twenty second nineteen. Eighty three everything changed in the current incarnation of the use of solitary confinement was born on that.

A at Marian prison Marian federal prison. A Mariano annoy yeah. So there are two different incidents where prison guards were killed their day. Yes said not to say, things right, yeah, yeah and dumb, though the warden put the prisoner lockdown and just kept it there and what the warden basically invented in in retaliation for these two murders. On this day was now known as a supermax prison. Yes, it's where all of prisoners are kept. It ultimately isolation for twenty three to twenty four hours, a day, it throughout the prison and it's like a prison within a prison. Each in made is in their own individual prison within the larger prison. That's called supermax prison yeah. We talk those a lot in the prisons episode. These became not the new standard, because you know not: all prisons are supermax. What

became more widespread for sure through the nineties, because of the bill Clinton and night in any, for he signed the very famous crime bill which, among other things, it was famously known as this three strikes bill, wealthier. That's what created the exploding prison population large part Yang Clinton. He still defends this as going a long way to alleviate crime like during the most recent election rose being called out for it and then saying like this is, as you know, a good thing and on the detractors still say no. This is it started in a big big way incarceration, as is a business model in this country, urine apparently the? U S now has twenty five percent of the global prison population, but only five percent of the global population as a whole. That's really disproportion

apparently were second at least on paper to the Seychelles, for the percentage of people in prison every seven hundred and sixteen of every hundred thousand people in the. U S is imprisoned in the Seychelles. Seven hundred ninety nine of every hundred thousand. But Seychelles. Is it? violation of ninety two thousand, so that kind excuse it. Yet. I think that the largest prison state really is North Korea, that it has a larger port proportion of its population in prison. U S so technically the? U S would be number three, but we would just be trailing North Korea that's not something you on a tray often said a country that you wanna be super close to, as far as like prison, population percentages

like we said before there are even experts, say that solitary confinement can have a place in prison as a deterrent for bad behaviour, and, like I mentioned earlier,. Two separate things: you're bad behaviour is one, but mentally ill. We just don't have enough space in all these other reasons of a truly important ones, but, like us, The term is a big one. There there is of legitimacy to protecting prison. From fellow prisoners there at high risk? For being injured or killed, that's legit Obviously, if they're a danger you know have attacked cards or other inmates. Then the need for separation, like you, can make a case. You know they for sure. If their produce,

yeah? Maybe they need their own little room? I mean that's, that's one of the big ones that for fur proponents of supermax prisons, that, like this, is it's a prison within a prison it they have to get out of that first prison and then there's still in the other prison. The Eads is this, makes it much more difficult, yeah. I mean you escape and gone and commit more crimes. Murder, someone way on the Lamb If we make an argument that keeping people like that- these repeat offenders- repeat escapee offenders in Jerry. So those are some of the arguments for yeah and then I don't know if you said it already, but the that having that extra way, to punish someone who is already in prison, here s. Another reason, proponent, say you need to have this as a tool to kind of man. In order. I give, you legitimately run a foul of rules right or yeah like it. Yet exactly, I mean, if you, if you kill another inmate,

but you're going to go through trial, but don't you know that you could be executed for for that, and that would be different than this being imprisoned. But if you weren't, then, that's basically like you're imprisoned for life already organised another life sentence. I know that's right, you know they there's only so but you can do to someone who's, imprison, short of executing them right in the solid, solitary confinement proponents say, provides that extra layer deterrent right and the reason it provides. That extra deterrent, though, is because of the impact it has shown to have on the mind of inmates? Yes and there's a few problems with this before we get it right, we should say there is there

very little studies in one of the reasons why there there are so few studies is because there is so little access to prisoners in solitary confinement by researchers is not allowed there just kept out. Yes, all a lot of these studies were longitudinal studies about isolation of the elderly yet and like the effect it can, well, there's a big worry. I've seen that that's like the next health crisis is and be loneliness- and this disconnected Nessa but yeah- that's that They ve got in a lot of the data, because the the prison are unavailable for study therein. Solitary and aid that same vein, possibly disingenuous Lee, the ones that have

been able to be interviewed, say they ve, gotten out of prison and now their available. The interview right, the proponents of sort of solitary confinement, say that the prisoners are just there. Just telling researchers they think they wanna hear right or there really playing up their story or whatever, but what they found is that their there seems to be a basis for the idea that there are demonstrably negative impacts on mental health that are possibly permanent in irreversible that come from staying in solitary confinement for prolonged times yeah I mean there have been some studies. There was one on the Pelican Bay Prison in California and said

one. Solitary for long periods suffer from depression, anxiety, apathy, hallucinations panic, attacks paranoia. This is a big one. Hypersensitivity external stimuli basically sound and light right, sometimes their kept dark. Sometimes the white never goes off yesterday. You know have no sense of you know no circadian rhythm of day or night. What which makes sleep extraordinarily difficult to apparently on prisoners who are in solitary, will basically stew bed all day, and then they don't sleep much at night right but there are really getting good sleep during the day either so its electricity circadian rhythm, has foot flop, it spread out over the day, rather then too, which prevents them from getting actually real rest yeah because their cost, We arrest without difficulties, thinking, content,

given a memory. They become angry and violent. They could suffer from dizziness part politician. Perspiration. Basically like we're sands Kosis like your trapped in this little box, and it's not like well, you didn't read all day and educate yourself, or something or paint well in cases where they are yes, because a lot of times there not given those things that most time you're not allowed any form of stimulation or anything so in imply of cases you are like you're still a lousy books or something like that. But apparently one of the things you run into very quickly in solitary, is you lose your team? for reading. Even It's all. You have to do right because you, remember what you read a few pages previously right, so you're having so many problems with your memory

you're not able to retain enough of what you're reading to make a book worthwhile rising to stop reading after awhile. Well so work at this late in physical sense they have done studies and they show that if you're in solitary for extended periods, you have a higher rate of self mutilation and suicide, they did one five year study from only ninety thousand four in California, I think in their whole prison system and Fifty percent of all and made suicides were committed, those in isolation and see that's a tough thing for someone who who doesn't believe that step that isolation is a real problem. That's it that's it! That's a tough one for them to get rid of right does either you say: well, that's all self reporting right right by a prisoner in solitary, so maybe this kind of making it up or playing it up,

their mutilating themselves. One guy mutilated his own genitalia. Another person blinded himself and then you have all these completed or attempted suicides Those are my card numbers that you just can't ignore, yes, that you would think it people other I wouldn't do that if they weren't, solitary or else the solitary population wooden represents such a high proportion of suicides and attempted suicide in the prison in a yeah, they ve also been studies for posts prison. Two thousand seven at University Washington. They said prisoners released directly from Supermax into the community, committed crimes sooner then prisoners who have been transferred, even if only for a few months before release to a general prison population yeah. I thought I too and the then I think the basis of that is that you don't have social support,

she'll stimulation from other people right yeah, even if it's something you don't really like, if you are interacting with them, you're getting Thing from interacting with them right there and one of the problems that you run into in solitary patently is you start to focus on stuff? Very small things can become the basis of like raging anger in psychosis, yeah and because there's nobody there tell you like the southern big of a deal right or man. Just let it go no one there to give you that social support to two. Just let you talk The word yes actually so the smallest thing can become think of immense importance here, even if it, if it clicks, are something like your rage, you're gonna spend the indefinite time you're. In solitary thinking about that one thing and doing like think about when you stew over something I am an interest

It gets harder and harder to. Let go the more use. Do you just making their neural pathways stronger and stronger thinking about it, in having nothing but that to think about right. For years there appeared it's a really bad side effect of solitary and that key from not having that social interaction with people the same year, being weird well on this. Just me talking, but I imagine it doesn't increase your sense of empathy because you you gain empathy by interacting with people so released directly into the public at large, ushering in Supermax. You just don't have that that normal, day interaction with people, so you may be more likely to commit a crime. Is you don't care about other, be there would be that's me it's a pretty reasonable explanation to me and then you know, we'll take a break you in a second. But another big impact is simply the financial burden that taxpayers pay it, and I am

went through this one paper, academic paper on the cost, and it's really varies all over the place, but I'll to say it one hundred percent of the time it costs more money to how someone in solitary or a supermax, then irregular prison population, messianic kind of all over the map. Article says fifty eight though dollars a year for regular and seventy eight and four year, it's kind of were the place, but those are pretty and line, it's always a lot more money right by How would you even keep track of that? Different prisons have different definitions, Ray you know, solitary confinement. At the very least, we need to get the stuff standardized one area sick, our final break, and I will come back and talk a little bit more about. Best in the world, and none shall we touch on the angle with three case

it seems like it should be easy, but it's not just getting out of bed and getting your day started, trying to accomplish everything you need to do in your day that to do list as a lot easier when you're getting news stories and music to lift your mood and preparing for the day ahead, get connected to the things that make you laugh and make you think or make you want to reach out and share with a friend every morning with us, it's Elvis Joanne in the morning show listen to us on cue, one or two or anywhere in the world on the Iheart Radio, APP. Or you said this is the american export it does happen all over the world, but there are countries specific England and some other european countries that have some kind of seeing the light

In a way of reform they rarely use it in England, anymore- in nineteen eighties, they started Kenneth. About insane. You know what may be the thing to do is is incentivize our most dangerous prisoners. Then a little bit more control and give them incentives for good behaviour, rather than just the threat of punishment for bad behaviour They found it worked. There was much less violence when, house than units of ten people, than being in those individual cells or they can earn privileges like more kind for the people, more phone calls more visits. They found it had. They said the results have been impressive, these of long term Isolation in England is not negligible, so they found good results, and then it just seems like

more and more states are enacting things like like juveniles should never in isolation, yeah Will you ever in New York? Did I think, just in the last couple years, even I think, Obama bandit in those two and fair prison as well, the mentally ill, and they are every year, juveniles can't be people under twenty one can't be kept in solitary beer, apparently affairs having these pronounced the facts on the brain. It would have even larger effects on the developing brain of a juvenile absolutely so that with there would be really bad. Yet I was the case of document before with the yeah the MP. Our story right that kid

I think he was sixteen of the time seventeen when it started the incarceration and he was still developing. He said at the end he said he was twenty one he felt like he was forty and then you know, like you said he killed himself within a year after he got out really sad, and this is again. This is not some hard criminal, he was never convicted of a crime right using pretrial holding by that clear. Who This one Mendez he's a! U n. I've never heard of this title. Are you in special rapporteur yeah? Have you heard of that fancy? What is at stake? the special investigator they like. We want to know about their sir we're gonna. Ask you to go out and find out everything you can give us a report, and I think it's reporter in French. So you and

he presented report and twenty succeed. Just last year to the General Assembly. That basically said: there's a transport form all over the world when it comes to solitary and the right, kind of on the wall, but this is it's just making things worse. The s it is, though, is there is a lot of people who still say, especially inside bureaus of corrections. That say no. This is not you you're all being played for fools. This is not a problem and it's very useful. There is actually a study by the Colorado, pure of corrections, department, questions when the two. They find it s, one of their researchers carried it out in it found that that the mental health of inmates can actually improve in solitary, I met and everyone's like you that isn't it strange This is the only study

I found anything like that. It's it was funded by the Bureau of Prisons in Colorado and the the methodologies Bennett it is a very controversial study, but what gets me is that critics of the study have used the same criticism that critics of the studies that show solitary confinement is problematic used, which is they. They said that the the reason the prisoners were just telling the researchers what they think they wanted to hear It is like I'm doing great. I've actually thought about how how how my crime was so you could probably let me out now right, you know so that that That study, I didn't, read the study, but from what I understand it, there is for us to it

and only one that came up with that you'd be effective if the beer of corrections had come up with something substantial, every state prison system would be running the same tests. Guy now in back up their case right. You know who's really big on this is our David Simon, the guy who created the wire here he is come in and you know what we should finish well enough. Ass one, but we should totally the one on private prisons yeah. We touched on a little bit in prisons, but that deserves it. Sancho agreed that sort of one of his big thing seas. I guess what you call a passion project now is trying to end his super smart guy, like hearing an interview with them, is really really interesting, but ah yes, Carolina things is dedicating his work to now

is exposing these for profit prisons and incarceration as an industry in the United States. He just so testified in Congress recently. I really think so when surprise me. Should we talk about the Angola three case a little bit? Yes, please so our house, the forks articles, parts with an intro about a man named Albert, would Fox, and he was one of the infamous Angola three from Angola Louisiana State prison, which is known as the bloodiest prison in the south and regulate these three men Albert would Fox Herman Wireless Robert King were sent to pay then for armed robbery they got in there. They started a black Panther chapter within prison and tried to Suppose some of the atrocities going on in prison how they retreat what's going on with the guards, and that was not a popular move, to say the least,

so they did things like hunger strikes. Work strikes. Started you a lot of attention in the nineteen seventies calling for investigations and so and go away. You guys are going in solitary forever yeah, apparently that something that is commonly used as well as to squash dissent or criticism of the prison system or the prison rules. Yeah pretty awful. It is so wrong, our wood Fox, who was kind of the focus of this article, that I read he was in prison and solitary for forty five years and there are positive, but they think that he is the person who was in solitary confinement, the longest in United States right. Forty five years did I not the fact that he's out and walking talking is pretty insane

There's another one of his arm. His buddies, or at least fellow maids is still in in in Angola and has been since I think, the eighties right. Yeah. This wasn't one of the Angola three lived, but it was a gunning, George Gibson, any isn't. Angola yeah he's been in lockdown since nineteen eighty two journeys are six by I mean not like eight by ten. His big by these were six by nine foot, else crazy and dumb here's. The thing they were you know If you look at the evidence, there's little documentaries and none- I mean the very famous cases. They were essentially put in locked down to swap the descent, but what they were officially put in for was for killing a prison guard room, but according to most people that did not happen. It was not there

There were so many inconsistency or accusations, they were missteps. There was a boy, printed the murder scene that didn't match any these guys They never compared that buddy handprint two or was it a hand, printer footprint eye to print? I watched him print them. They never compare that to any of the other prisoners and that were had access to potentially kill the sky. And there were very few people that even get it done. This is not like it was a whole prison population There was dna evidence it could have. Freedom was conveniently lost, but prison officials. They had plenty of alibi witnesses that had nothing to gain like they didn't get in exchange for free anything. You like good behaviour to be get more free time right. The said these guys were anywhere near the murder scene at the time these other prisoners and their main witness has I Brown basically

retrospect. Everyone says the skylight under oath, so he could get more privileges. He was a serial rapist serving life and he agreed to testify in exchange for more cigarettes, birthday, cakes, tv time, another birthday, cake, at an interesting bird and the warden later on when he was reminiscing in this documentary, the warden of the prison said Hezekiah was one of these guys, you could put words in his mouth, and so they were we and I doubt to wear the famine. Members of the guard that was killed said. We dont think these guys did it we want to find out who did it and Lee, they were They're all freed for different reasons, one of em Herman was freed because, despite all this. Misconduct in the investigation and the trial, institutional violations and racism. He was eventually freed because they excluded women.

From one of his trials, which is a violation of the fourteenth amendment, which was interesting and he died three days after he got out of hand therein. I now that's all tragic Albert was finally released, but not before, I'm sorry our was was not released because of continued practising a black panther risen. They called it the real thing you can't make better. You can't keep somebody in their first the what and finally, in twenty sixteen after forty three years and ten months, I think we said forty five years, Albert was released from isolation and from prison, which is I'm sure, there's a movie in the world, while these guys, but again there is no transition, proper process right

solitary confinement aim and the next day he's out of prison not just out of solitary out of prison and from where I come from one of the research I've run across its If you are in solitary, you are more likely to commit a crime yeah, you are less able identify with other people? And if the point of prisoners to rehabilitate people or at the very least to not really some until they're they're ready to be rejoined society. Yeah, then solitary confinement is the antithesis of that. Right, you're, stripping someone their humanity and their ability to relate to humanity, honour of physiological neurological level here so runs. Contrary to our ideas of prisons, yeah and if and what about the eight amendment cruel and unusual? punishment. The seems like in many cases like an open and shut kind of thing.

There's, never been a ruling on that note. The court said not today not a mood today who some other day, because after all, who cares about the inmates right their inmates, there all right, if you want to know more about in meeting criminals in solitary confinement, take those words in the search bar has the works that come since I sit search for it said felicity or male right. The quick correction. First, stop world geography with Josh part do wrong. I didn't I just said and check out man. Well, I'm the worst it world geography, but then you love Mass. I do love maps, which is weird. I think I just I don't talk about it because anyone

I got it so in our family episode, I think he said and put the two countries: Botswana, Ethiopia. There were no nine, A few thousand miles apart, a couple thousand, not a few thousand, so we like to correct into an Another thing we got wrong in Jes was when we did our listener mail from stranger with Ozzy Lingo. Yet surely the Australians got that we were joking right. I don't think that, while we have a lot of response saying guys, you got it so wrong, they kind of exasperated like how did you get it

wrong here: the Skinner we knew we were where's that famous australian sense of humor, but I can read this one for man discuss it sufficiently came up on my phone. They didn't have unprepared, like the assassin and no country for old men. All about what a great so officially Matt says. Marcus is Mcdonald's, did know that it's not you. He said it rhymes with packers dream they backer so matters. I guess a bottle of three by alcohol is wrong. Servolo check you get it right. It was a petrol station, ok, maybe now and their resources

its rented curries, also called darts or cancer sticks wrong. Pissed is drunk. We know that some of you said ingest, I put your bit was really funny but was not funny. I was very happy with myself. It could have been way. Funnier fellows get, although he says best is drunk enough, do not drive. I don't know what that means in Australia or that wine is because you ve off the road you just in the back, some water in your trunk. You're, fine debbie- is a beard specifically a three hundred and seventy five millilitre bottle of beer. Three, seventy fifth of Pine Pinus. Y y. You just call it a pint. He said so a style of tradesmen, work shorts with a pocket big enough to hold a bottle of fear because Cargo Schwartz. A beer shorts slab as a case of beer, which is twenty four of the studies

Phoebe, plus studies means from Victoria. Like me, Victoria four beers VIII B fosters also probably Victor and for me Carlton United Breweries Carlton, as is Melbourne, hurry In fact, the first, artificial ice created to make beer cold in Australia interesting. He says by the way, there's a lot of Ozzy slang that is not relevant travel books. I read

myself and laugh as nobody and Australia talks that way too big fat joke that every Ozzy can convinces. Foreigners danger is girt G. U R T steer clear of dirt. Job bears hoop snakes and nowadays I didn't even know. What's going on now. I think and hope that night that's another name for hookworm. Ok, what's the drop their the job, there is the it's your feet of material containing hookworm, eggs and yeah. Always that's what you say You gotta. There are getting a famous pipeline fight where could see how this could be an endless cycle of emails for ever and ever keep going kind of like a hooker and lifestyle The above written is true. Today is your contributor wrote: no trademarks involves, as far as I know, stubby work, shorts, origin might be contested, and that is from

that text met was met me in Australia. So you like your feet before we enter a dwelling. Ok thanks, man and again touches us like method. You can three to us as well as cape. I guess I'm also Josh unplug Chechnya, beginning our chalk on Facebook, Charles the reach of bright, and it s the should now you can send an email, the stuff Pakistan has to force our camp and, as always, turn but our home on the web stuff. You should know that for more or less and thousands of other topics. Housetop works, dot, com. My name is Brandon Phibbs. I want you, do away with me aboard APOLLO eleven

we'll be covering the mission from start to finish day by day hour by hour, minute, by minute used with original music and fully immersive sound effects. This podcast is going to be the next best thing to actually being aboard APOLLO eleven. This is nine days in July, new episodes arrive every Thursday through February. Sixth, two nine days in July on the Iheart Radio, app on Apple podcast or wherever get your bypassed.