And IBM problems, inspire us to push the world forward. That's why so many people work with us on everything from city traffic to ocean plastic. Smart loves problems, IBM, let's put smart to work, visit, IBM dot com, slash Smart, to learn more, this just doing its officially foe, and that means a lot of things to a lot of people. The leaves Changing colors, send a break out. The pump gains break out football elbow and, most importantly, break out the truly hard Seltzer he truly has only a hundred calories, but has five percent a dvd, and only one gram of sugars per container is the key miss drink of the season, so try truly ourselves, are today truly drink. What you truly want Hey there, everyone it's me Josh, and for this week's s by as case selects, I've chosen a classical so don't cyber war. It's almost certainly

hopelessly out of date by now, but it is an interesting intro to cyber warfare and we learn that Chuck hates the word stuxnet. So listen out for that keep back and enjoy this classic episode of selfish welcome to step you should now production of my heart radios Housetop were able to do our guest of Josh Clerk with means always tries to bribe. We call an authority, cyber security, the internet, everything about inexpert you

hey should we say hello to your latest celebrity. Then we just learn today: Missus Presty, Bell Lovely an enchanting and nerdy Kristen bill. She nerdy very nerdy like pride yourself on, I mean it doesn't surprise me that she was insufficient if she is on record as being a big nerd knots colleges. One reason I like your lot and security a Newsweek page right, yeah. Like thing she likes her color one of those deals that the magazines now and she listed Us- that's pretty- or how about that? Thank you very much for that. I'm a huge fan of a party down which he was in and other stuff that she's been and forgetting Sarah Marshall hours ago and hurt you gotta, see her slaughter video online that she don't Ellen shouts, pretty funny aka highly recommended. So that's all and saw the second up, I'm gonna do we say hi to another fan, slightly less famous, but pretty cool. Yes,

SAM, you wanna, give the look of backstory with kids back, Sir he's sure we have. We had a alive trivia event here no Lana couple years ago and at the event was the little teenage van namesake. The teenage you mean like just post tween yeah, like and his mom brought him up, and his big fan he's just like really sweet kid. Mulberry sweeter yeah, very nice man like Flash for it a couple years. We get us out by southwest their SAM again. Apparently mom drove him to ask him to come. See our life not guess yeah, they weren't there to see. I've spoke to mom afterwards and was like so what Elsie S Genesee she's like nothing, we're going back crazy as they can What else did you see said nothing? They came to see us so then we're I, we gotta think of some force ended because he's proved his metal. And SAM wrote in an old Encinas Reza may, unlike other reasons put into work and his dislike did if the future secure, if kids like SAM Fisher and that worry about a thing anymore. Yet

we read our brains. We found others like a surprising amount of adult, only tasks that I do like at any given time. Sir Edward They are aware that we have to figure out something this age appropriate for SAM Try so long story short. I was getting kind of thin on podcast topics. I put SAM on the case and he sent me like stellar stellar list the reasons why we should do these Anna. This is the first one. This and he had a lot of overlap and once we had already recorded that are not yet to discuss to show the same as like he gets the show right and so as in taking these outward and let you know if this is the same one with his is going on in the summer when call this the summer of SAM. That's right, SAM's choice, all right, so this is it over. There was any in the interim and well, let's get the cyber Orson. Let's bossy, Melina Chuck a view

Rob Been Bellingham Washington now, ok, I'm not have you been to Washington. Been Seattle. Isn't there were then Nostrand lives or the Oregon? Now he sees watching them so impelling in Washington on June tent. Ninety ninety nine at the Olympic Pipeline Company, a systems can Oh and data acquisition system, their systems twice in there, but a scatter escape a system which is basically like a computer program that like can make a valve turn or turn something offer: defacing mechanical right from from digital binary instructions right sure this olympic Pipeline company system was operating on this. This type of programme

and am something went wrong and one of their pipes started leaking a lot like millions of gallons of gasoline near an part of interrupted in new fireball and killed. Three people injured many others and they went back and like any figures, to sit in a system malfunction right, but the fact that came all this happen because of this system control, and it happened in ninety. Ninety nine, as the dot com bubble, is starting to grow and, like the internet, was really becoming huge thing here. People current cybersecurity no point to this as evidence of exactly what somebody could do during a cyber attack, even though they think this was

just an accident right, irrelevant, ok, but there there they weren't like pointing to that is now ok. No, they they dont, think that had anything but they're saying this is what it would look like if somebody had wanted to attack like this is what a cyber attack would look like. That makes it because it's not just the Olympic Pipeline Company needs these systems all over, the United States, companies, law enforcement agencies, military yoga ranks public. Works. All these things are all running on what amounts to windows yeah, it's a simple that yeah, my soft systems many of them and as Jonathan Stricklin wrote this from text off the article via an Strickland points out a couple of things. Microsoft has been Can it chastise over the years for their security or or lack of security in some of their programmes,

and the other thing points out is the internet's grew so asked and everyone got on board so quickly that it kind of outpaced what we can even do security lies right it all the sudden government aid, these in power grids in emergency services and weapons systems, water and fuel pipelines all this is running on on computers and a lot of it through the internet, and we don't quite know how to guard against a cyber. It though, and apparently even as far as like the knowledge of how to guard against cyber attacks goes, the United States is is lacking near compared to like China and Russia, so

what kind of in this really weird position right now, where we realise that all of the ponies are hooked to a single basket of eggs and all it's gonna take as a couple of black cat firecrackers to scare all the horses off? That's the best analogy I can live with that. You do singular. Did you I just over there, my imaginations back, I can tell you I time travel. Awesome we're all right: let's go back a little bit in time. I don't think we need to Wayback machine for this cuz we're just going to nineteen ninety seven. We can just like walk outside with a waste of time for the wave machine nineteen. Eighty seven, some pretty smart people caught on early that hey, we could be vulnerable to something like a cyber attacks. Alice look into this was put a red team on it read team. Is it

our friends that act as enemies to try. You know how they are these people, the like break into your home, yeah, there's a red teams. Basically, right like come from star wars: So let's get a red team. What's, let's name it, this miss something really cool out of a football play book last name at prayer eligible receiver Euro many times I had to look at that before it finally sunk. In what words I was looking at our really it is it s a kind of funny it looks like Elinor Rig, be when you glanced at it. At least, I think it doesnt to me I was thinking more like a radio receivers, something like many others means about football know it all the damage to say, like I read this many tongue for our so out of the system, provides. We don't know everything, but basically they hired some hackers, which is what you do to test your security being the department or different yea at Brown defence ain't: hey! Can you nerds?

again to the Pentagon system and afterwards, we will- says exactly. And the nerves were like just watch this, and it took three days for the Pentagon even knew that they were being cyber attack by the red team, Reich pretty successful and very sobering yeah. So they d it was, I guess, kind of an eye opener for the deity and they I'm sure used it to step up security, not fast enough, though. No because after this red team attack, operation eligible receiver in actual attack They later came to call what was it moonlight? Maize? Yet is one year after that, the tests a year after it, somebody launched an attack. And it was a year- I guess- was probably the most typical kind of cyber attack where you insert some sort of software to basically spy

and get files and gather data and download sensitive materials right, yeah and apparently took two years before NASA the Pentagon and other agencies in the. U S, government noticed that accidentally noticed that this that they were being spied on cyber wise yeah, they got data like a strategic maps, troop assignments and positions, not good. Very scary, and they trace it back to Russia. Does it certainly mean that it came from Russia in its origin, but at least where they traced it do and this is cyber warfare like it's happening. It's been going on since the nineties. Pretty much

yeah. Well, I did so not is a cyber war coming, it's like how do we prevent like a cyber war from bringing us all down yeah pretty much, and this apparently from looking into this, is like two camps. There's like a gloom and doom Camp words like yes, somebody really wants to mess things up. They're gonna be able to can be pretty easy and the sunny optimistic camp is kind of like now. You know we know we're looking for now make sure they could launch an attack, but will will be able to stop it in time for what we can do. Like a lot of damage, so it will see, will lay out everything for you can decide he's right. That's right!

miles. It's me, jack and rain. Here you right next year by next to me, just like a work. Hey one day I join with you to tell people to turn into a very special episode special year of treaties, yeah. I guess this is actually look. I know you saw the social media sauce at the Ellie Otto. She said what are these two juggernaut supplied casting doing there when Mazda cause me ever they say miles. We know that you're a loyal, Mazda owner. We want to avoid I'm with you because you get it yeah. You know what I'm willing to answer the car and help Ding Ding help people understand the power so what we did is we actually got to record of special episode inside the new Mazda six. Thirty, where we talked about colonel flow states and really feeling alive and how we feel alive. What makes us

you'll like it was really doped actually record inside the car. I got depress alot of buttons make them mad because, like please don't fumble around in here, but I said operate out, I like to explore. Nonetheless, if you actually want to check out the first ever see Ex thirty check it out among the USA, dot com, slash Iheart or, if you're, trying to check it up, I already them pull up to the local dealership today what s the matter, the timid return. So we ve already mentioned on the defensive side of things, the: U S is sorely lacking, but on the often the side of things. We have actually done this ourselves more than once during the Kosovo or Stricklin points out? We used computer attacks to come. My serbian air defences basically can scrambling. Information, so they had bad. I guess corps

that's what does away on the radar screen? Wasn't a pope was an apt was an accurate or appropriate. Did you see that one So we did this, we launched it in and it worked. So that's a good thing, but it's also a bad thing. If you're like was pushed the first or Clinton and Bush the second Bush. The second in two thousand and three in Iraq and Clinton. While they were both like you away, don't think we should be doing much of this, because cutlery a. It basically opens up as like hey did this, so we can do it right back and be, I think they beg, could have drained some banks. Of terrorist cells, and they said we

depend on the integrity of the banking system worldwide, like we do want to start mess around with us. So apparently, with with thumb cyber warfare, it's very much like come when you build that virus it out there and it can be captured and studied and redeployed against you. So what they were saying with Clinton and Bush who were saying like now, and I can use a virus to to drain those bank accounts because they could be too. We will eventually back on us and our banking industry is not secure enough to withstand something that we ourselves make, because, apparently U S pretty good at making viruses. I'm sure sure we talk about some, the different ways that this can go down: the Pearl Harbor attack. Yes, I had the feeling. My name is John himself, but it's not true. He went to a lot of trouble to explain why it's called the Pearl harbor strategy. I think he college slept at that

idea here is that it's it's pretty much in your It's a mass massive cyber attack. Were they infiltrate and then they sabotage systems? Much like pro harbour was a big surprise and a big attack. It wasn't me snaky, but it wasn't quiet by any means or stealthy. And ass in our banking industry is not secure enough to withstand something that we are so of a Pearl harbor attack, I believe, can be distributed. Denial of service attack, which is clay. You know like when you get on your website or whatever you're, sending him a request to the server to let you on a ping right now. If you assault that one server with millions of pings.

In its train, to accommodate everybody, as is appropriate and act here, it'll be a basically they they crash is the point. You can crashes, sir, by hitting it with millions of pings all at once, the slow it down to the point, either where it doesn't work or crashes ia, and that's that's when anonymous likes to do with like Mastercard during the whole Wikileaks thing when they was a massacre visa. Chris cannot remember, I'm gonna happen it. Basically, just launching a bunch of server quest, said: assassin serve reserves like now now, and this false over is how people say paying by the way was Salem. You I'm too

your website or whatever you're, sending of a request to the server to let you on a ping right here now, if you assault that one server with millions of pings in its train to accommodate everybody as is appropriate and act at all, but basically they they crash is the point you can crash, sir, by hitting it with millions of pigs all at once, the slow it down to the point either where it doesn't work or crashes Parliament's likes to do with, like Mastercard during the whole Wikileaks thing when they was a massacre visa crash cannot remember, I murmured the happened. It's basically just launching a bunch of server Quest said his as an observer and certainly not in this falls over it? irises Stricklin has mentioned. It spread very quickly browse the internet and a couple of ways. This can go down, you can either you can sit. Why you're, having a brainstorm, I gotta go, get coffee

can have all these other computers deliver the virus you can put. So like a delay. Timer on your virus for to go off in two years automatically or manually whenever you want to. It can be waiting for you to hit the button and then launch the virus. That way- or I think for the user of that computer did do like say, control or delete all trigger Anderson really who thus pretty scary yeah. Don't don't presto three, but the other time on my pc- oh, my God Chuck, I think we should talk about right about here- is, I think, we're Stuxnet fits in who Stuxnet say onward. Stuxnet, I don't know about it. You know it's stuxnet is that in this, yet the iranian? It's a virus that the? U S, unusual What sort of like a delay timer on your virus for to go off in two years automatically or manually. Whenever you want to

with a great name, offensive, cyberattack offensive in two thousand and thirteen, and maybe it was the first one ever the. U S launch like a strictly for sabotage attack basically they wanted to disable arraign IRAN's centrifuges yeah so mama busy. Oh my god this through the the new twenty Fourth AIR Force Base, that of Texas Right Texas in Georgia, Say onward Stuxnet, I don't know that. As you know, it's stuxnet is that in this, yet the Iranian, it's a virus that the? U S and Israel unleashed on IRAN is a perfect example of this is the right to restock about stuff

Our task is to wage cyber warfare and I imagine it be defensive against cyber attacks. By am I not I dont know if they had to do with Stuxnet, for they probably would have. I think it was being developed before The twenty fourth was ordained behind two thousand nine. Did you invite the two thousand seven when it was started, but basically the they, the CIA, get their hands on centrifuges, that they knew IRAN was using and they had just as many as IRAN did not of the same kind and they studied it and they built this virus based on this configuration of centrifuges running windows and Siemens switches ripe and they build a virus ago infiltrated. I thought was called operational,

we're attacks by? I not I dont know if they had to do with Stuxnet, for they probably would have. I think it was being developed before the twenty. Fourth was ordained in two thousand nine, at that, given by the two thousand seven windows briskly. Imagine like the CIA. Do you remember on common values, Do you remember when, like their training at that replica of the camp yeah, ok this year did that with IRAN's centrifuges that a nuclear programme, Then they figured out exactly how I worked. They figure out the best way to break it was Jean hangman. Bankrolling the hoping area whose there to get his son I'm here he was staring at this menu of guns and ill aware that he wanted the order. Remember the idea that other so bad that the ever there was a huge huge movie for like deeds. Are it knows, I'm same bad It can figure, but here I was called operational. Limpet gave yes, and this whole,

the Olympic Games happened and, like you said it was the first offensive cyber attack. Most of the other ones have come in the form of sneaking in and lying around and watching and waiting and spying will Stuxnet had that too. I was at the initial phase of conveying a program called flame right that somehow this is the part that the biggest mystery the IRAN's nuclear programme is not connected to the. So somebody got that in on thumb, Dr Infected, their local system. In flames sat there and basically just studied everything, told the: U S, how they convey nation was set up, ok and then they built it and then they inserted Stuxnet and basically it made all of their

data. Look like everything was operating normally, but it was telling their centrifuges to spin out of control and basically break themselves like oceans eleven when they built the replica bolt exactly showed the replica video there's nothing. So, basically, the Pentagon has been watching a lotta movies. When it comes to using data. Everyone is different, which is why activity mobile, is a different kind of wireless network, one that's to save you money by letting you design your own data, given you more choice and control compared to other top wireless carriers. Now you can choose? Unlimited share data or mixed up regions, which any line any time. No one else lets you do that or autumn.

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at least a year, if not more, it had hoped that this would. Let us continue. Talks and I think it said one of the aims was to make them feel stupid they said it worked like these the Beijing donor, something wrong you and that's why this these systems were failing, pretty scary them, but the We know now is ok, that's out. Their stuxnet is out there for anybody who can get their hands on an equivalent reduction. Had that's the name of it. It's a great name, stocks within he with an ax with a negative center, but it's out there in the: U S is now basically just the they computer equivalent of Hiroshima was just launched by the United States, yet in nice little set up there. A lot of people are comparing these days of the early is of cyber warring to the early days of of nuclear bombs and that there is not at all

defence. Not anyone really knows what they're doing sort of a chaotic mass that ruins trying to get their finger in the by them. In other countries like China, Russia, who are apparently better equipped to defend against in a cyber attack in the. U S is the best of the? U S is also really playing with fire. Well, that's why Clinton and Bush were declining to you These are the reasons writing this opens up to counter attacks in this may not be the smartest waited like we wouldn't go out and is drop a nuclear bomb on a country right of weight. It oops twice what else you see here. We talked about the system of controls and data acquisition systems. That was basically there is the Achilles heel,

of infrastructure and the United States. One of the reasons why were not set up to defend against a cyber attack is because we are so connected to the internet via everything is IRAN, North Korea yeah not quite as bought, because a lot of their stuff is off the grid. Just by the fourth sure, because we don't have the infrastructure that we have so just the robustness. Live our own infrastructure is one of the one of its vulnerabilities as well yeah. That's a good point. As far as defense goes to I forgot about this stuff. Strickland says that, like the first step is education, as far as educating consumers over you know, antivirus software, and how they search the internet stuff like that

so I give that a medium, but is this guy richer Clark is a security expert. He blames things on companies like Microsoft too. He feels like Russia's through programmes before they are fully security tested because they want to make you know They want a few points to rub together by selling stuff and the consumer doesn't want to wait and the stockholders don't want lots of testing because they want those new products on the market So it's a bit of a rough position and you know private companies run, most of the net. You know it's not like this big government thing, so he contents Clark does that it's up to these that companies who owned the internet infrastructure to really make it more robust and a defensive sense right, which is good in one sense,

because then you have a dollar about in the form of lost profits attach to security, breach right so accompanies gonna. Try to protect it, which is good, but at the same time it's like a year if you're putting our products, though, and you have competition in new competitors, products are safer and you just rushing stuff the market, then you're gonna, lose out ultimately provide the same economic forces and Jonathan also points out to that You know a scary way this can be implemented, is as a one to punch with physical attack. Yeah, so That is the one that makes me up in the mill the night is. A cyber attack has launched an the electric. Power grid is shut down and gas,

lines and waterline start go haywire and then all of a sudden incomes, the Red Don T parachuting in well, that's what we did to Iraq in two thousand three. We sent a cyber attack that messed with their. I guess there air defence systems, and then we invaded so that happened before we ve done it then spreading cyber war were in the midst of were in the midst of it, pretty crazy, stuff Natura. What Norton antivirus battle to solve everything education, education, but that's all that's the only thing. That's all we can do to prevent cyber war. If you want to learn more about cyber war, read this article by John Stricklin. You can type cyber war. One word in the search bar has the forts dot com and bring it up. I said Jonathan strictly miss me time for a listener. Male rely more. Let me call this.

Beer and fire hi guys, I'm a professor of history and long term action, show. I use a pike S on my college glasses to talk about how we use history in writing about the great Chicago fire Potass, especially as it relates to my research, see. I study the history of alcohol and a teacher class on the history of beer if we study the economic, social and cultural history, a beer and we make veering class and do weekly beer, tastings, Anyway, aside from the stuff, you mention the show the Chicago fires important because it wiped out about three quarters: Chicago's breweries, something eighteen breweries were destroyed by the fire. Of course, people so want a beer, Chicago in the upper Midwest as pop was populated by a lot of Germans at the time birth to the beer industry in Milwaukee before the great fire Milwaukee was down, but not a major splicing slits especial

a good example of how the Milwaukee beer industry reacted to the fire Joseph Slits, the founder. First donated thousands of barrels, a beer to Chicago and in the weeks after the fire, sensing and paternity. He then opened a distribution point in pointing city After all, there were still hundreds of thousands of thirsty Chicago and reopen slits tied saloons at eighteen, these. He was selling about fifty thousand barrels of beer. Cargo alone is about seventeen percent of their total the slowdown daily. In four slits the beer that made no monkey famous came out of this period because the beer sold after the fire. So that's where they the name board One thousand nine hundred and two Schlitz was the largest river in the world that title it would trade back and forth with Budweiser until the 1950s, and he goes on to point out that Blatz and Pabst followed a similar trajectory

Stuxnet and the Gaga brewing industry sadly never recovered from the fire. Although here drinking stay- and I don't have professor beers name. So what's come, professor beer, though I'm sure he'd appreciate that faith. Yet I'm sure that's what suits takes professor beer and if you want a ride and I'll say your name on a later show: okay, and if you teach especially something interesting or you stuff, you should know to help. You teach why I was interested in hearing that we want to know about it. Okay, if you can't read it to us at Sysk, podcast put it on Facebook, dot, com, stuff, you should know or you. And is an email, the stuff, I guess the house, the forced I come, there's always join us at our home on the web stuff. You should know Doc, stuff, you should know, is production of Iheart radios how stuff works for more power.

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