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you and me both on the eye heart, radio, app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, Everybody. It's me Josh him for this week's s by s case selects of chosen how book banning works does an episode. We really stole away back in two thousand and twelve, but its is pertinent today. Sadly, as it was back, then I hope you feel inspired. to go out and read a book that somebody didn't want you to read, because you can enjoy

welcome to step. You should know a production of Iheart radios, how stuff work hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as Charles. We chucked brian- and this is stuff you should know just did my little best. Anchorman move yeah get the papers all in order reading the prompter. Why would that be great? I don't feel so funny these things. Well, we need to get the tax prompter, writer, to juice up your jokes. I agree. Everyone knows that right. We don't actually make any of this stuff up. We had somebody write the show and we read it. This is a very, very well rehearsed, practiced. Labored podcast! That's right! I think this is the second of two good topics today, yeah part, one asexuality part two banning books yeah. What do they have to do with each other?

Nothing I thought I saw a common thread now that I've looked I've forgotten it, but there was something discrimination. Maybe I guess so. Maybe we'll find out it'll pop up, possibly it'll, be like the p secret word of the day, oh yeah, and then what it was called. I think so that was cool, so you got an intro proper for this or Chuck. Yes, are you familiar with the last week of September? I am you. Are you through it before yeah, it's after the third week and before the first week of October? That's exactly right! Yes, it just so happens that that very

week is banned book week did not know that existed well, it does today it does yeah yeah. I heard a banned book week before no, I have I've seen like the subversive displays outside of B Dalton booksellers right. You know, and basically the whole point of it is it's like: hey people have tried to ban these books so make sure you read these because it means that there's somebody out there who does Want you to that's right, hey look! What I've got! I've got to kill a mocking bird over here. Yeah, that's attempted yeah yeah. So the whole point of ban books week is to celebrate intellectual freedom. That's right because there are people out there who would take that away from you. If they could, we know it. You go back.

So some of our podcasts there's certain words that were beeped out because the man has is under his thumb, Thanksgiving yeah. So I would strongly recommend it's coming up by the time the thing gets released will be in September. That's right! We should probably post something about paying book week when it comes okay, yeah September thirty TH through October six, actually, so really the first week in October this year- oh that's weird that they would put it the last week of October yeah, the first week of October yeah or last week of September yeah yeah. That was confusing for a second. Let's talk back books, men, more than eleven thousand books have been challenged since nineteen eighty two Josh, let's just since eighty two, they ve been I was reading about the catcher in the rye it came now in a manner which I knew it came.

the event, a late fifties or the early sixties of the late fifties or nineteen sixty, because in nineteen sixty a teacher who assigned to his class for reading got fired there really yeah, I'm on my way. Books, is it yeah? It's one that every red several times over the years and it always takes on a different meaning, depending on my age rather interesting it have you read the catchers companion, No, that's we got that as a gift right haven't, ready, have already neat it's just like footnotes and extrapolation right, explain, this guy went into catch. The world catcher in the rye and like made footnotes of the whole thing. I definitely it's actually thicker than the catcher in the rye nineteen, fifty one by the way, okay, so fish, with a nine years, somebody lost their job because they assign that book to read. Well, that's pretty! usually with book banning it comes out of the public school system,

yeah and labour, so library so right. Well, that's is usually school libraries, no less a publicly public, sir If you go on the internet and you look for banned books, you're going to find a lot of confusion. there's this body called the American Library Association near and a lot of people think that they are in charge of banning books as absolutely the opposite of the truth. The American Library Association is a it's it's. Basically, the librarians lobby and they are committed to no censorship whatsoever. Yeah ask any librarian and they're going to probably be in favor of not banning books. Right, a matter of fact. The ala maintains a library bill of rights and in this library

Bill of rights is a provision for the free access to libraries for minors, which basically says this. We have a bunch of books that we're not gonna make any judgment on. We have a book that you don't want your kid to read it's your job as their parent to monitor what they read and you can decide what they read or not right you! That's it right. Your opinion doesn't extend to any anyone else kids. So that means that if you want to ban a book, we're going to tell you no because you're responsible for your child, but not everybody else's child too, which means, in short, that the airline doesn't sensor books right. It's a big deal, because this happens a lot. There's eleven thousand challenges. You said, one thousand nine hundred and eighty two, since one thousand nine hundred and eighty two- and I think there were two thousand and eleven there were three hundred and twenty six challenges. Last year

These are the color of earth series by Kim Jong Qua and the reasons why nudity sex education, hunger games trilogy, yet my mom's having a baby a kids month by month, guide to pregnancy by we'd, certain kids to learn anything about that, no, especially not with mom brave new world by Huxley, insensitive, nudity racism, to kill a mocking bird like we mentioned Harper Lease classic because of offensive language and racism, and those are just a few of the nine I'm sorry ten most challenged books of last year. Right you'll also find in just about every list the most challenged series, since two thousand is the Harry Potter books. They received Dayton the

challenges, and that was from up to, I believe, like two thousand and eight or nine, maybe two of two thousand and ten. They were from two thousand to two thousand and ten yeah. They received three thousand challenges, and- and it was because it had a satanic overtones or undertones of the two. That's how or Midtone people challenging effectiveness. So, for the most part, when you see a book being challenged or banned, it's because people are concerned about its influence on children by addressing the American I resources and says: hey man, kids, kids, there's free of there should be free access to information. Yeah Judy blooms forever is one that's always on the list too. For that reason, because it deals with the young girls burgeoning sexuality, confusion in the awkwardness and the thrill that comes along with that, and that one reason, but there was a great deal, was it from a forty one year old man with a beard or did I was

fourteen once a girls and boys are all. I kinda we're all scared and awkward and thrilled. How do you do you do this man? How are you are you issue a formal challenge to a book, and what is that consist of what does it mean that kid means that you have gone to a library, a single library said I want to challenge this book, the librarian decides whether or not to ban it. So it's as simple as that than book banning works, and you don't even have to use such lofty lie Words like I want to issue a challenge. You can just say like this, but these should be taken out of library. Rise book is filth. This book is person for pervasively vulgar. That's a big here, and the librarian at that moment decides whether a book it's banned or not, and for the most part they they err on the side of not banning em, but when they say

Kay. Let's take that book out, that book has just been banned, so it doesn't mean that a ban, but that a book has been banned, doesn't mean it's been banned across country already on. Some countries have like band books in its entirety, like our countries entirely. but in the US and in the modern world it usually means that somewhere in the United States, there's a group of people, whether it's kids in a school district or people who are served by a public library who don't have access to certain book, because one person found it offensive and convinced the librarian to make to make the decision for else based on that person's objections. That's a band book, yeah person or persons a lot of times. It's a group put together with like a list even and they'll rally the troops and say you know, come on out from your your homes and let's get together and submit a list and the librarians like you. most times will say: no, because they generally havoc

on their side. If it gets to that point yeah for the most part, the court's like to defend the right near the first amendment yet, but I mean think about that pressure especially if you like you, are a school librarian and the school board is telling you like. Hey, don't forget employ you and more telling you sure, remove this book and the librarians like no ts debts. That's against the first amendment. There so we talk about some of the laws. I think we should. Let's talk about. Do you want to talk about the history of it yeah who wrote this one. I think this was Conger too. I don't think so. Oh no yeah it was a freelancer okay. Basically, since the day of Socrates. I've been trying to ban teachings

some sort of the other, he was heavily scrutinized and back. Then, if you wanted to ban something you just burned the few copies of it that existed right and there's no problem, he was made to drink hemlock for what was your thought yeah, but yeah like if there's two copies of a book in resistance and you get both copies, and you said I'm on fire done problem solve considerate band and then what happened? What came along? Well, the printing press and all of a sudden you had to official, try and ban a book because there were too many to gather up and burn, and you remember the star chamber, starring, Michael Douglas: did you ever watch that no okay? They were the real? Our chamber did you is there was a real yeah? Ok, so the real sergeant That was, I think, created in Stewart England, Stewart ERA, England, man on ice We even say that, because I'm not sure really, England, in the seventeenth century there

Is that a group of judges that were in charge of like they were like the elite? Judges right they were the sensor board. Basically, I was one of their roles and Henry the eighth came along and got rid of em right, but he started his own kind of censorship with licensing laws are basically said that the state had the opportunity to censor things before or even published, so that was one of the earliest forms of straight up book banning write books, censorship, the point it has been a long time ago, her ears, nineteen, eighty to board of education, island trees, school district veto. Yeah. It's a mouthful. They said basically that you couldn't library material just because, like school official, doesn't agree with the ideas they said. The books on their list were quote just painful.

They wanted them removed. Yeah some people said no we're gonna sue you for that. Well, the Supreme Court said so. Basically it has to be pervasively vulgar. I guess that's why they use those words. That's what they can actually ban a book if who finds it that I think society, basically that's easy to figure for the most part. As far as books go for banning a book really tough to do once it reaches the Supreme Court they're going to be like no, it's a book put it back. It's obscenity, that's not protected as well right! Well, because the kicker there is

the the number three rule that they'd decided, you know should be used to to determine a sum is, I guess filthy was it could contain no literary artistic, political or scientific value, and that's the one word you know you can pretty much say claim. Any book has value. I got that's how we have hard core pornography still see. You can say this is art, that's true! John, you're. Something might not know, the moon, beer was created rainy, ninety ninety five baseball season. At the same, let brewery at poor speed. In Denver, Colorado and the blooming found and Brewmaster was inspired by the flavorful belgian wits he enjoyed. While still

in brewing in Brussels. Then somebody tasted it and they said a beard good only comes around once in a blue moon and hence the name was born and that just to name a really good, delicious beer, a bright well crafted beer with a twist of flavor best served with an unmistakable signature, orange garnish in a glass to showcase oh beautiful, hazy, color of it I tried once in a blue moon, should happen more than once in a blue moon. You now so the next time you're out with are enjoying a night in reach were blue Moon, it's the berry can enjoy every day and you can have blooming delivered right to your door by going to get dot, bloomin beer outcome in finding delivery options near you, Blue Moon REACH, for the moon, celebrate responsibly, blue Moon, brewing company, Colorado Ale her with the brown is a weekly podcast brought to you by cynical women, podcast network, and I

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so that that case that one thousand nine hundred and eighty two island trees case or Peco case, I don't know what they call it. That was a really big deal because it died place in a school library and it basically the Supreme Court, said school. Ib are special places. Schools are places of inquiry, yeah and so their repository of knowledge, meaning they're library has special protection like we understand that you're worried about the children's mines being corrupted by you. Don't get to decide that like this is information that out there and as long as it's basically not like hard core If a child pornography right obscenity like it, should has every right to be in there under the first first amendment is a big deal. It was a big deal.

so it was nineteen. Eighty eight, I remember this one because I was on a newspaper staff at the time yeah and I got interviewed for the news like the local news came out. Hazelwood School District V Koremaya. That was very famously when newspaper high school newspapers basically were They do not have the same rights as like. If you were an adult running a newspaper and it was not a form of public expression of schools, good Anyone can a sensor what was going on these things, at least in, like school curriculum, our fellows in the paper in the paper I'm sorry are you meant in these things, meaning libraries, yet none on that in the whole nuclear they sure, but it was extended in the classroom curriculum to like that which was a big deal, yeah

that article about Texas yeah. Let's get to that, do you want to yeah, okay, so Texas has this very controversial textbook review commit that wields a lot of power, because textbook or Texas is the biggest textbook buyer in the country, and so, if a textbook manufacturer, One state is ordering most of your textbooks you're just going to print one and send it to everybody. Yeah. It's basically, Texas and california- are the two states that wheel the most power because they spend the most dough because they have the most school age. Kids. Basically, right exactly so, they basically say what Texas decides to go. in their textbooks, goes in the textbooks for a lot of other states as well. Not just Texas, right yeah. Looked at the expense of the textbook and I think one of the manufacture, said something like Several million dollars can go into it like a major biology textbook Albert because of light.

illustrations and everything that goes into it and they're like we can't make one of these for Texas and one for other states right. It's just everyone's gonna get Texas's version of the truth. Exactly so Texas has this committee. That is largely conservative, if they're starting anything, two thousand nine basically held hearings on revisions that they wanted to see done to social studies curriculum. These are elected people too way, which is important, because apparently a lot of em by their way, right on that list. Ok, so social studies, you get history sociology, economic, and a lot of stuff that they were adding in there were like gum, this kind of slanted everything toward a little more towards the idea that the founders of the United States were christian. Ah, there the the they one of the things

to get in. There was not just Martin Luther King's nonviolent civil rights protest, but the black Panthers, violent civil rights protests were another one if you're conservative you you're like well, okay, I agree with a lot of what these people are saying. The problem is what they were: was that there is a liberal slant to academia and that they were taking it upon themselves to correct that by putting a conserved, slam year. One of the other amendments was to cut Thomas Jefferson from a list of figures who- expired revolutions of the late eighteenth century nineteen nineteenth century, and they said, let's replace them with Thomas Aquinas and John Calvin instead another one and economics they wanted add Milton Friedman, Friedrich, Friedrich, Hayk, champions of the free market, economic theory. To the list of economists study. We talked about

Milton Friedman in one were. Basically, he used Chile as a laboratory for Reaganomics before Reagan. Was president. The trickle down area. The armor of that, and then one of the ones it was shot down by Democrat Mavis night wanted to introduce an amendment requiring students Daddy the reasons for the founding fathers protecting really this freedom by not saying it. One religion is good above all else, and that was actually struck down. They said he you can't put that in this book right she was a Democrat who introduce Yeah Republic conservative said now, while they Nina Base We vote along party lines, so the vote was ten to for her. Whenever it. So it was a big deal survive. and it was one of those things that kind of went under reported in underestimated but there's a really good documentary out there that came out, and I think thousand nine maybe doesn't turner, the revision

yeah, and I think it's up on Netflix streaming right now. It is Scott Thurman I saw was a trailer, but it looked pretty good yeah and I mean it was a big deal. It's not just like some people in Texas want to change some textbooks. It has national implications right. It's an info war basically, and that's what book banning is based on in a lot of ways as well. It's like if you can remove a different viewpoint, especially when it's being presented to the right. Then you can keep their viewpoint from taking from germinating in there and their emerging mind a world view absolutely and so books like gum, Daddy's, new roommate, gets band yeah about a boy. His dad hasn't new boyfriend now he's a divorce. Deadness you moves in is gay, and am Sarah Palin herself asked for that to be removed from the library when she was the

Wasilla Alaska, oh yeah. I remember that and that guy came out and said that woman is my mortal enemy really the author. That was his response and thanks for the press is what he should have said to just. In the meantime, in Texas Helen for has tried repeatedly to get latino figures included in textbooks as role models for the large hispanic population. taxes and she's been repeatedly denied to the point where in thousand ten. She stopped out of a meeting saying they can't just pretend This is why America, and that we don't exist. These are experts, these aren't historians. They are just rewriting history, so pretty hard words, fine.

I'm Ariel demos and I'm hosting a new podcast called vice use reports with so going on around the world, so many people telling you they have the definitive take on we bring you to the news, so you can hear it for yourself from this room that has earned more Emmy nominations than any other news team. This podcast goes where the story is from conflict zones to the labyrinth of digital life. You've never traveled quite like this get the vice news reports podcast on the on the radio, app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hi. This is Hillary Clinton, a host of the new hard cast you and me both there's a lot to be anxious and work bout right now and it's made so much worse by the fact that we can't be together. So I find myself on the phone alot talking with friends, experts really any one. You can help make some sense of these challenging times. These conversations have been a lifeline for me and now I hope they will be for you to please listen.

You and me both on the eye heart, radio, app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast you want to hear some other challenged authors, let's man, because there's challenges all over the place, apparently Judy Bloom, of course, Robert Cormier. Or Cormier did you ever read in the cheese when you're growing up no or the chocolate war? I think I read that one great books banned many times J K Rowling. She is like. I said she, I guess of the Devil, because a lot of people have a problem with the Harry Potter books. Catherine Patterson bridge the terror Bethia Stephen

my angelou- can have any that yeah. The Alabama State Textbook Committee said that I know why the cage bird things there encourages bitterness white people Rl Stein, who is sort of like a Stephen king for kids, a goose bumps yeah, and I think I actually worked on one of his little tv shows the nightmare room. Oh yeah was a nightmare room. I think so yeah back in India and John Steinbeck, of course, yeah in nineteen? Eighty nine of mice and men was banned in Chattanooga, because Steinbeck was well known for his anti business attitude. And then Alvin shorts, whose number one in here one of my favorite sets of books, scary stories to tell him the dark. I really had ever heard of

oh man, they restock Gary with the most ghastly illustrations you ve ever seen. There are some that are those ban discuss you're, scaring ghoulish, I guess so MAO's probably say tanning to Gaza. So we are talking about how if a book is challenged, it's probably if it gets to the Supreme Court's from ports, pollyanna rule in favour of the library and who said? No? Yes, but that's that's not the case with obscenity like a scene. Literature like it is civically excluded in? U S case law from First amendment protection and this kind of emerged over the years starting in eighteen. Seventy three: with the con stock laws. It basically said, like you, can't, sell obscene literature in interstate commerce right and then people are like okay. Well, then, we won't or don't enforce it or whatever

it just kind of went enforced her unchallenged for like three quarters of a century and then in the fifties you had Roth versus the United States. where all the sudden we're like wait, we need to start explaining what obscenity is, because you can't just say that's just whatever right. That's what they started as though, like in the fifties, they basically said obscenity obscenity pornography. Basically what that means has utterly or is utterly without social value. There was a big quote so that basically was of a mark against any but he whose pro obscenity rang right and then in the seventies, there was one called Miller's California, and this guy basically sent a mass mailer chuck of an advertisement for his adult magazines area. So everybody got em right old people. Kids,

housewives, businessmen, everybody went to their mail that they opened it up and there is like basically obscene advertising advertising and so California arrested the guy and it went to trial and the Supreme Court said: okay, yes, signed not print protected, but we need to say what obscenity isn't. They came up with this three point test called the Miller, TAT, yeah, witches Is that one you you're talking about year? The third one is no artistic merit. Basically literary political or scientific value, which was probably the terms that they nail the sky for yeah. If it fails to full higher, have like pornographic address, he couldn't really say novices literature.

I check these out. The other two were involve patently offensive sexual conduct or appeal to current interest when taken as a whole there. It is thus a connected, a sexuality period that at near visit, but the big point with those chuck is there that the period interest is local, so basically like if everybody in your town would be offended by this year, then that's the local judgment. That's for that standard. But then this scientific artistic literary standard is national right so like if your town thinks it's science, but your town. As you know, it is talking about

it's not a standard right right. So that's obscenity subsidy, but the good thing is like. If you are trying to ban something as obscene the burden of proof is on you to prove these three. This thing passes all three points of the Miller. To that is true, and that's a tough tough burden to get passed in a court is tough. I'm surprised that more book banning fans aren't trying to infiltrate the library community, and I'm saying I think they do constantly. Oh you mean I'm library, libraries, yet another mean. If that's where the power is, I think the librarian like really really like that the library industries yeah it's very powerful, unlike if they find out that you're you're, a wolf in Sheep's clothing, they'll kill you ve ever talk to talk to librarians. Here is a library there really passionate, passionate people. It's it's almost like a

public service in a way yeah, because I'm sure they don't make a lot of dough and they just all really believe in knowledge and protecting protecting freedom. Yeah, it's pretty cool yeah go librarians. Yeah give you your local librarian, a pat on the back today, he had given a hug, ask him first and then give a mug and if they say no dont give him a just shake their hand and politely, not maybe a curtsey, and that's that's creature, I like the curse, all right. Well, if you want to learn more about ban books, we suggest you go to the ala site. I believe ALA com, then you can also write in band books in the search bar, how stuff works, dot com and it's going to bring up this really great article. Finally, it's time for listening Judging and call this disco fever, Roma Diane in Kentucky hey guys, you're disco, absurd, brought back fond memories. For me in the summer.

One thousand nine hundred and seventy eight. I was in my early twenties and I've just made it from the sticks to the big city, New York City, big too. I had very little money. The city's infrastructure was crumbling and this kind of what we pointed out and now the bad economy, and I was separated from my boyfriend by a continent a bigger obstacle in those days before cell phones in the internet and reasonable airfare. That was back when a long distance relationship was serious. Remember like? Is it long distance? I don't talk too long. It's long distance right, yeah, yeah! Now it's like what yeah I forgot about that ten ten. twenty or whatever, like certain times of day, were cheaper or something no. There's like a number. You could dial, oh, like real, cheap, long distance yeah. I remember that ten ten to twenty things on I was questioning the decisions. I had made him I've and is pretty much the struggle for me, but I had disco. I would go with it

friend to a place on third avenue that was more or less the equivalent of an apple bees with disco music in a dance floor, complete with discount it. It certainly wasn't what you would call a discotheque or a cool place by storm to the imagination, but she was broke in we could order the cheapest thing on the menu and spending the whole night dancing. I was completely oblivious to any social or cultural implications of the music but just knew that it was cheap, entertainment and so much fine. Yes, were silly in the b, was rather unimaginative, but coming off the era of Vietnam Watergate and a plethora of social upheavals. That was the great part of the appeal swing to disco and laughing at the lyrics was play. Easy to learn the moves and much for her. For me, And much more fun than the mindless dancing which attended rocket music, which I like to listen to, but let's face it dancing to write using its pretty,

professor! I don't know I thought it was the best discuss on that one of the most one and exhilarating and inanely silly for me was Donna Summers. Macarthur bark still brings a smile of my face to thinking about it and I did know done. Summers did Macarthur that was dying rally in Louisville Kentucky so where we could bring maximum bid me here thanks a lot Diana thought and we heard from a lot of people who, like guys you're saying, If I hate this discounts, because I'm homophobic don't be stupid. No, we didn't say that specifically, we said if you hate this, go outright with a burning passion, but for no real reason, you're really tell why it's getting to you like this. Maybe it's time to step back in examine it. There also says that there's plenty of room for people who just don't like to go just don't like the music, and it doesn't mean your hobo phobic. So if we're light enough and listen

Clearly, if you want to get in touch with me and Chuck, you can tweet tweet to us to Sy Sk Podcast. You can also join us on Facebook com, let's say, now. You can also reduce the riot act. We feel the email to stuff podcast Housetop Com stuff. You should know it's production of I heart radios, how stuff works for more had radio the I heart, radio, app apple, podcast, where every listen to your favorite checks.