It all comes down to this cultural, Joe Berwin Ellis uses. Close of all things, look to capture the ultimate trophy punctuate, the restored season, while Davos Sweeney Trevor Lawrence and Clemson spurious DE pursue back to back titles, apparel of unease in New Orleans. To crown the champion the college Football players national tribute to gain presented by eighty anti number, one Ellis you for this number three clubs in Monday, tenuous, thirteenth, eighty stern ideas, Pierre and streaming live on the EU. S p and add pay everybody. It's me Josh him for this week's s, why s case selects chosen how grief works episode from April of two thousand thirteen, and it covers everything you ever wanted to know about grief come. Do animals grieve? Of course they do don't be ridiculous. And if you happen to be grieving right now, I hope hope this helps so sit back and enjoy

or whatever you might do with it Welcome to study should now friend Hasta for extending hay and welcome to the Pakistan Josh Clark. Their shows the beach of bright and makes a study should know the pod cast. Could very yes grief. I looked it up. Would you come up with? Well it struck me. It in oak is Charlie Brown says I know they're thought where they come from and it's just apparently they think it's just. Let's call the midst of like when he subdued guide for good grave year get Google easier. I gotcha critically, moving occasionally moodily, but then I thought grief was weird, is at such a specific bang. But then Good! Gracious! Gracious is very specific to air and like ill fitting. So I guess it's just amidst oath

good grief or maybe good gracious came from good grace and somebody like Just feeling a little snobs. They added a gracious, maybe so minced oaths, good gravy, that's good! by the funny thing will happen in the show: flexibility that wasn't even that one year, but this one's that's post be funny about grief. You know, and am I think we should point out from the gecko that this is about grief. Human grief, the western human grief, but Sorry to say that there are different types of grief and that humans are the only ones who do grief, in fact, over story for you, yeah Gallo, an election to answer you deal with this matter that was the funding is available. I did this story took place back in the spring of nineteen. Ninety nine in Her Pradesh State, India,

specifically in the town of luck now, and even more specific. We had the prince of Wales, Zoo, ok, was a seventy. Two year old elephant female fit named Domini Domini was hanging out in her little House said the Prince of Wales Zoo when all the son she got a younger pregnant friend, delivered to name chum percale the collie was, as I said, pregnant. She was actually on maternity leave from her regular gig, where she would just let tourists ride on her back, and so she was. She has taken the prince of Wales Outta to basically just Heaven. Comfortable term and then give birth, An Domini just fell in love with a chump Kali. This assistance so she basically became of maternal figure chunk MC caully. They were best friends the Collie would lay around and Domini would stroker pregnant belly with her trunk. They do

got really really tight, which is very normal and in the elephant worldview. You can almost imagine that Domini was growing excited as chunk. Mc caully got closer and closer to her due date and, finally She did go into labor, chump he died during childbirth and gave birth to a stillborn calf. And Domini. I guess they let her come in and like it hang around the body because elephants are known to there even as far as elephants go Domini stories a little. That's pretty bad. She She cried over the body for a while and then what verdure enclosure and just stood still for a week, the killing to the week she during this wishes she stopped eating. She get to the point where her legs swelled from. We starvation in dehydration, while till she fell over

haven't you just lay there for what not to be the rest of your life. Worse he wept and refuse to eat and refused to do. And grieved over the death of her friend and finally died. Herself a few days later and the vets tried to keep her alive. They they did what they could, but they said in the end in the face of dominates intense grief or treatment, failed cheese, no they're buried next to one another. I headed dog situate like that similar. When I was a kid. What am I died in their best buds and the other one dislike was never the same and died about three months later and seemed healthy at the time, and I went out lay down the darkness and cried nice when I was like seven devastating, that's a wonderful thing to do. That's working out your grief in here, but as far as animals go, it really is pretty evenly divided among scientists to say yes,

They show all the signs of grieving in that's what they're doing and in others it say no. They are not grieving. We are putting that on them as humans, yeah that I totally disagree with that. Yeah is this. You know it's really two camps zone. We ate these tests have again before we ve run up against this before and I don't think either. One of us have changed our positions at all. I think they grieve, but then you here, like this one great ape you know, was famous only for carrying her little dead, baby around here, like three days and other scientists came out said, like you know, This is a long gestation period. They have singleton. Having a kid is a big deal. And so she's carrying this baby round and hopes that it will come back to life in it like in a comatose state- and you know it's a practical adele- the right. Evolutionary thing that's happening, it's not grief, and then I think your heartless

their grieving collate ancient an easy to grieve. They took the baby chimp and made a purse out of it at some other sites. Isn't it after the war? Would then for animals How do I get to sidetrack, but you have to think like when some clearly shows signs of what looks like Reeve and some don't at all like the chimpanzee. In the same, you know, arena like they eat other, chimpanzees, whether still alive and screaming, while those are the ones Backtalk or they off the die by themselves and there's no grieving, or they will make I give one of them is dying. There were like kill them my own imagine. Your outside observer of the EU species we We lose chemical, weapons on one another, and yet we still have funeral practices, I mean This is interesting. I wonder why certain animals do in certain Diana very interesting

we're getting back to humans, the human rights of grief, there is a man who recently was married to his wife for sixty two years and she died and on the other. To her funeral. He died in the back of the limousine. I really and beer Tat, though, is incredibly sweet and then is his daughters, they died at the Fianna. They they put a sign up. They decide to just have a double funeral. They put a sign up at the wake said surprise is to double header. Buried him next to her, like that day, like it's, our family has a good sense of humor its, but the point is this year. That is that that's that's. They use a sense of humour to grieve, or else they weren't going to grief, and the point of the whole thing is is that there is no set way that grief works, which is good because we can see just about anything here and the elderly in the right psychology,

still grappling to define the process of grief here and some very recent studies that you found show that Greece is not present and everyone here and that everyone deals with it very differently and there is not really any speed civic way to handle it. They had some great general guidelines and we should say grief is very personal thing yet, and I myself have experienced the spectrum of grief in my life. Like, including you know, by family members. It passing away not to be too cold, but some are you know you see agree for and summits like well, you know they were very old and they had a greatly If then, we saw this coming and that's one of the things they the types of grief anticipatory grief, but they say it probably easier, because you workin that stuff out overtime and it's nothing like an accident.

Or a child dying, unanticipated grief. Well, lately Yet is so you say you mention anticipatory grief, that's give somebody's gotta, prolonged illness or certainly that you the chance to say goodbye, I had a time maybe the of these emotions exactly than once death actually come. Yet you been prepared for this for days weeks months, right, yeah, times. So maybe there isn't any colon quote traditional grief going on at all, because you do so prepared right and it's just a matter of executing all the things you need to do. If the person in charge of it can ride like yours, prepared you bluff the funeral together grocery store, but that's a serial killer. That's against psychologists call that kind of grief anticipatory grief, basically the money grief, because it's it's a, some is light You can get your posts grief, post death. I should say right, yes,

and then again I want to say, like there's, there's probably listener out there who, like help there, there my husband or their mother through a long bow of cancer that the person finally succumb to that that's absolutely untrue. I agree with you wholeheartedly? Lay there again, there's no specific like no one can tell you what your grief was again. It's personal. This is dosages. Actually, these are very broad strokes. So ok Like you mention unanticipated grief, right yeah, I met that's from. I expect it's at a friend that fell off a building and died on its like that the hardest, someone young, an accident and but still I want to talk about five stages and I'm not a big believer that that's the case, because I didn't experience all the stages at all. But again it very someone. Might experience

stages it does. But but the point is with unanticipated grief like you. Couldn't you or your friend and wake up that morning like he was gonna die right now, but he still died here and you have to deal with it. The sudden there, and then ambiguous grief, which, for my money is probably the worst kind of Greece. This is the kind of grief that comes where say. If you have a loved one who was kidnapped- and you never hear from them again year or ever felt that when your parents abandon you as a child, or did something happen to somebody and there's no real resolution or closure yeah or you know it didn't, have to be even death. It can be like your girlfriend. You come home with to a note on your bed right, you never hear from her again or a wife again. Yes, because I guess we should also say, like grief, doesn't have to come from death now push grief is basically the the deep and poignant distress caused by bereavement,

M bereavement is the state of being deprived of something or some one, so yeah that cathedral urge death, whatever yeah, exactly But yes, this is a three type of normal grief, just off the top of our heads, we made this outbreak, and you mentioned the the different kinds of their the difference. Ages of grief and yeah I mean that's a such like a pop trope these days. Yet if I stages, but who is actually knew just as recently as nineteen sixty nine, when, Elizabeth Kubler Ross came up with the five stage. Grief that you always hear about today that any ten year old could probably recite to you, but I have since been kind of deconstructing change in question and challenge, but these are end of the road map to go through grief. Right, yeah I'll anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance right, in denial is basically saying this: is your you're not

they're still live like what you say. You re a lie: and I dont want to be anywhere near you because you're lying to me right now about something very horrible. He had never experience that even with my friend who fell off a building like that's a sudden, a news as you can get over the phone and unjust the kind of person whose, like now that didn't happen, I was like man it a media. Hit me that that had happened and thy started from there. I guess but I'd inexperience, anger either, but If it might have been my brother, I might experience anger here is a very good point. There's different there's differ I guess, risk factors, others different elements to grief, and some of it is personal. Some of it has to do with how close you are to the person church. Some of it has to do with the type of person you are you're, pretty resilient person If you are very sensitive, bookish type you might have taken at a little harder. You know I mean,

You have a very, very, very strong, tight support group. You do yeah. So I would say that that that probably quite a bit, I'm sure you had a group of friends that like helped you through that they were probably friends of the kid to the absolute. So you went through it as a group yeah going through something alone, as is always hard even think you're a loner and don't want to be around anyone. You probably not doing yourself any. They were right and then, lastly, you had prior experience with grief. You'd turn yourself down in the dark house. When you are seven, so you had that experienced, draw upon an end to know the you can get through it, it does get better, does go away. Yeah so You're gonna have the hardest normal kind of grief. If you are like you said, a loner with no support group. If this is the first time you ve ever experienced grief if you're the sun. They bookish type and if you were extraordinarily close to somebody bright right. Yeah totally

in fact isotope acting exercises in college, I took this acting class and believe it or not. When acting glass- and I was get at it and they he's tell us to try to do I crying exercises and stuff. So what do you think about my brother was? I was to go to like imagine. My brother had got killed her. Thing out just like boom Lutterworth us here, better family guy Trying- and I like I've cry if I thought of your brother die, I know- is of more than a guy I'm kidding about the other family I heard it all right anger Second one. Yes, is pretty self explanatory near bargaining. It fascinates me like, the idea that that you,

like yours, suddenly in a position to to make it a deal with God here to reverse the circumstances, are bring the person back or take away the pain yeah. That's too so crazy in its it's. You know, like you think of somebody bargaining with God or some higher power in their like looking up talking to the ceiling or the sky, and that is one of the normal stages. Of grief, yeah, that's this fine at first. I did that when I was young with girls, well. I was happy in the church, very emotional kid and girls, like you, know, One is the other guys, please, as you describe back, to be abolished the death penalty, the air but I'll clean Mohammed Ear tat. I grew out of that pretty quick there because I realized me there I girls you to come back or shoes in the road exactly Andy. I probably had little. If anything to do with that, he was doing a bigger problem centre

depression in this one's kind of tricky here, if you if you go through the stage of depression, if you do it's not necessarily requisite right, starting to wonder, if possibly you already depressed and if you already depress that probably major going to maybe get stuck in the stage for a while me or you might go depressed stage and then come out of it right. It's not necessarily, but the problem with this stage is that depression is a recognised mental disorder and grief is not considered a mental disorder right and yet in one of these five, widely accepted stages. You go through a period. You're. Here you mental disorder yeah, but it's part of normal process- and you know it. That's basically like take

psychologists and throwing amended a thunder down in Greece in a chicken fat and handing in battle axes and explain that there that's the funny thing said in his pocket his acceptance. Of course, when you are finally able to move on- and I found that once fail- interesting article where they they choose, did this. And they said it would look like a W. Get that right, like the high points in the low points yeah, which I guess some denials a high point and then this down to anger, yeah up to bargaining. I guess if you feel like it, new somewhere. Maybe it's an up, maybe maybe at the very Sid Manic. I would think you back down to depression and unfinished the w with a nice bit of acceptance, yeah enable, as you said, that we

I ve been studying this right, thirty or forty years, and there was always that five stages thing, but recently there looking more into it and they some studies with widowers and widows, and they found They really oscillate wildly from day to day right, not necessarily gonna, be a w its. I felt Today and really my spirits were up and I was even laughing in the next day. They really sad- and it is really is all over the map right by I think over all what their finding is, that on a long enough arc emerge from it, and it's was to be somewhere on the order of six months to three years. Seems to be a man, I think that's the outliers, maybe six months to three years, that such a ridiculous timeframe but the boat, but I mean like if you study enough people, you care, probably nice. Every eight like make up like three months, the five years right now, it's time and then say anyone else's and outlier right. But that's the thing like you can't that's why everybody is very wisely

They avoid yeah, say things like that like this is. This is like a major aspect for the process like no one wants to come out, say: notices out is yeah, because you can't and that's a mean thing to do and actually there's there's a green. This is in danger of being medical lies in the DSM five one of the proposals. There's a theirs. It has been. An exemption to bereavement bear with depression right depression diagnosis. Person has recently gone through the process of grief or is in the press of green. You, he ain't diagnosed with depression. You can, but you're not coming to get reimbursed for any measure, prescribe the right well under the DSM five they're, taking away this bereavement exclusion so that actors can get reimbursed, that's good yeah. But a medical eyes, his grief it as no now it's a mental disorder. Well, one is

supposed to be innocent, hortatory slope yeah. You know a temporary disorder that you hope so yeah very keen insight. His work. Thank you. Psychology to day very at it, sit hey everybody, its Josh and chuck your pals and get this for the new episodes of stuff. You should know we're going to have a little help from Alexa hello. It's me Alexa. I know a lot about what you're looking for low, not yet Alexa, not yet now for new, episodes show charming in with stuff. You should know like this. The pitch of some crickets is so closely related to the temperature that you can use them as a thermometer or this more than the universities, including sport in Cambridge were founded before the asked

empire and are still in operation today, so tune into the latest episodes of stuff. You should know for stuff Alexa thinks you should Hey you wanna do or more sure Alexa. King cobra is not, strictly speaking, a cobra. It also makes a noise like a growl or a bark instead of hissing, King Cobras, who knew ass, the king cobra is not, strictly speaking, a cobra an election thanks for telling us some stuff. We should know any time I love to talk. About stuff So should we talk about about dealing with it? I guess guess me now. These are it's, it's good advice, but it's also anytime. I read thing where they like? Take care of yourself

eat right next to avoid drugs and alcohol here, but it is very much true. You know that it only is gonna make things worse. If you wallow in this and abuse yourself with drugs and alcohol in don't eat, and- you, don't think this em all night there's a therapeutic pouring like half of a forty out on the curb there is someone who had gone and drinking the other urine church, but don't do that. Today for like weeks and weeks is starting at nine a m I mean, I think me, my friends got together and get really couldn't ploughed. Do. We get the news about my body but but should we weren't there? Would alcohol advisers to avoid it after, one time. Yes, but ok, so in addition to avoiding drugs, now call eating right and yelling regular exercise to the standard stuff. What was it also in jet lag, every time. I do anything, the there are like some really good.

Suggestions to dealing with grief. If you find yourself overwhelmed by a profound sense of sadness here there are things out there that you can do to make yourself feel better. You can write a letter to add a deceased. That's said to help. I'm looking Why not throwing self industry, making a memorial like those roadside memorial there or video clip, show kudos yeah, you know actually Noah and when my friend I did a video see cause and we put together website like a memorial website and on the ad video footage back then of him, and I did a little video. For the family, but it in an ever really be in like a great thing for me to make. You feel better. Absolutely, yes, so, basically putting yourself into a project. There were you thinking about this person- I imagine, says in an article, this is me doing some armchair psychology nature, but

I imagine it forces you to remember good things about the person and so during this time, when you're, possibly a little more emotionally fragile than usual, you are being reminded of positive memories, positive things now you know, so you maybe that's. Why that but a dabbling in overture, because when you're going through and doing like a scrap book, it's great memories in these pictures- and it's not you know I remember the good stuff in the like the life right, which is, I think out. Everyone wants to be remembered in a church like these great ally that we have exactly you know you're gonna be remembered as a life. I mean I'm one of those people that always what once my funeral to be. You know a little bit more than upbeat affair as much, that can be in a worse people. I know man. I want people really sad Breyer. I wanna be mourned for days. You taught me, so you want the beautiful here. I kept have a party in make fun of me. Ok,

but not like Gigi Alan's Funeral Have the research that when I can only imagine what it was like pretty hard core pretty much they inject his course of heroin is buried naked down there. They live naked. It was there you can do some research. If you feel like a man, he died like in a horrible way. Then they find him like murdered in an alley naked and like, found the murderer. Now think he killed himself. I thought he was murdered, or indeed authorities extended. Nothing so used he's too threatened to kill himself on stage. That was his big thing was that like one day. It's gonna happen. I thought is big things like pooping on stage. While he did not like to hear the cap that promise, then cyber aren t really Georgiana skimming, should open the grief at the state of Israel then you can do to you. I guess Kennedy

help through the grief processes to throw yourself in your project that you think the deceased might oppression yeah or some organization, they might have been affiliated with right, the tournament yea, like, if you lose someone to cancer, maybe get involved with the common found. One of the other groups nor apparently mad mose against drunk driving, was founded in memory of a deceased person absolutely killed by a drunk drivers. One would imagine right there's a lot of stuff out there. That you can do yourself a lot of People pretty much immediately go to therapy initially to get a little help to get some men inside some advice. Whatever that's! Not necessarily the case for everybody, and they they definitely found that therapy is not even necessarily help for everybody right. A lot of people out there who probably wonder if they're dead inside, because they dont grieve like supposedly everyone else does but study after study is finding that actually people who

through significant grief. A fairly small portion of people who experience loss. You didn't have a study in here right here they'd what they do generally as they track groups of widows and widowers for a period of time and just have them in em remark about how their feeling, on a day to day basis, and this one was for up to five years. I think in between twenty six and sixty five percent had no significance comes in the initial years after the loss yeah and only nine to forty one percent did and there's a big mobility there, but they said it's partially from how the symptoms were measured in the study they found there about twenty one percent experience what you could diagnosis, depression after the loss and right only about eleven percent had trouble with it like couldn't shake it after six to eighteen months.

Believe right and ten percent of people who lost a spouse, felt relief, where people that had reported being unhappy in their hair, it's right. So, there's that those are the ones that dance on their spouses great gets out and out on a surly. Think it's that gold, but there could be some mild relief if you weren't generally more happy in your married right and as a meteor dancing on graves in parting, but it might just be like right now I can go moved. Covers in Lucas, I had always wanted to and hang our semi haggard my white AIDS, the ocean, and I can do that, but my what also hated Sammy Hagar, but money go hang out with him. Yet they also think that men may grieve heavier even though it set long believed that women do but I think a study, I got a sort of silly. They sell variable like from person to person right. But we say all this to point out that if you don't experience

what other people would recognise his grief, there's something wrong with you any more than there is. If you experienced grief exactly why, psychiatry in psychology have started to pay a little more attention to is, what's been term complicated grief. Yeah that is technically If you go see several months to a year, If is really really interrupted you sleep. You can't eat you're having trouble focusing on anything but the death of this person, the loss of them. Yet you start to seriously doubt thing. Very import in your life may be like religion. Even right have lost a child like there can't be a guide that kind of stuff right or Conversely, if you can't even mention the person's name are here the person's name. Basically, if your life is opted for many months. Then basically everybody from the Mayo clinic to the EPA says maybe

you go see somebody about this year, as it can also manifests itself in aggression and violent. Self destructive physical self destruction. So it can complicated is an understatement here for this kind of grief, I think right so there's kinds, if you go see a councillor with what's considered normal grief, they're probably going to help you Let go of the person while still honouring their memory in recognising them again when the impact that they had on your life, but to get out there Live your own life. They're gonna try to read. The same goal. If you have complicated grief but they're gonna do different way and they're, probably going to encourage you to read, they form and even greater bond here with the person now that their deceased there

can nurture and hold onto and carry around with you. That makes sense to me. Yeah, and this can in this case is not like you can't help apparent whose lost a child like, and you know, need to work through this and get over it. And then actually, one of the risk factors for complicated grief grief is the death of a child right. The death of somebody that you were possibly codependent on right and very, very close to her or The death of a sudden death, usually from trauma, say like a murder right or something like that. Right those are risk factors for complicated grief. So I would imagine that if you, if you had a loved one who was murdered, you probably already getting some sort, professional attention and if you're not maybe should we what we were based, we talking about was the difference between grief and trauma and when, Experience it to that degree, trauma is the whole differently. They say it feels unreal and its can be terrifying terrorism. Most common emotion it

Common, if you have dreams about a deceit, love one, but if you're having dramatize in dreams about yourself being endangered yeah. Then, if you cross the line from grief into trauma, uncomplicated grief, it heavy stuff, is very heavy. Losing a pet is for some people, very, very, very big deal and people, while people that aren't indicates it all dont get it and then People that do have pets are just more equipped to deal with the loss of a patent and not like its loss of human yet, but for people like me and Jerry over there I've never been losing a bet. You know it's like equivalent to losing. You know a family member and the grieving process is about the same. I would imagine if it's that impact for and my advice is, you should talk to other people. You have some, our feelings is one of the things that can be office about losing a bet is when you talk people who don't have habitats and don't think

that big a deal railways lose a, and I can things a lot worse while they say that if you, if you do experience the loss of a pet and you find that your reading over it, you should go ahead with the grief, yeah, don't feel em back. Esther dumb. For that we go around the tug housing cracked, her like a six year old. You anything else, I ran across one thing: there is a guy. Nineteen eighty three named Paul rose blot, who carried out a study of a thing like fifty six victorian diaries of people who had experienced loss, interested and, so grief, is definitely cultural. And also historically bound to lie, come there he found that the goal for these direst, so

to keep the person alive around them right, like all the time like they would try to send the person around them or, like maybe sit in their favorite share, because they could tell they were still there and somewhere. Whatever under those circumstances, my grief, never really seem to ever go away that it was something that they cared around for the rest of their lives and, in fact, one of the so the victorians did was they would wear black for a year. I believe, and then dark colors after that, especially if you're, a widow and the on the anniversary you wear black, whereby right, I think so in your expected to carry around this grief for the rest of your life, and one of the things they also did that actually still around the day was bereavement photography, which post mortem photography yeah. We could then the thing on it at the heavy and its

We did didn't we and we got an email just as recently today from a woman who lost a child and the head cast made of the baby's hands and feet and she said that it was something that has very much helped her crew and is it down yet yes, said it was a gift from the hospital while tell them through their grief in the hospital said. You know you might not want it now, but we really encourage you to have this year and will pay for it because you know years for now. You may really be happy that you have asked she said there absolutely right, while that's really great. What was that email in reference to death asks ok, but it's come in the day when we research and grief while. That's about it, I guess her Zealanders ABC Grief, we touched on every single thing possible when a downer yeah,

Yes, if you want to learn more about Greece, you can type that word into the search bar has the efforts that can remember I before either after see hold on. What's, let's take a message: break,

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so just you can buy the way to come back. Look a bit more! if on our website or could go to Google and look it pygmy cuts The helps to without it Up to now not listener male Josh. Today we have nice touch on its we're gonNA is going to be an ongoing think has, as usual, they stuck up while men have very busy work. Schedule Lenin and we like to say eggs to as many people as possible for those of you who don't down administrative details segment, places listener mail in which we read out. Thank yous fans who have sent us stuff yeah anything for example, a postcard, a robber Neue from Ryan Confrere. Thank you for that nice

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and that is a little thing, that you sticking your trailer hitch if you have a truck pickup truck and it's got a little key in this hollowed out and you can like which, while it stuff in there, if you go kayaking unlock it up, I didn't see this wealth. Is he and you get a trail in it? By we'll split Turkey was happier with sea. We guide Christmas card and postcard plural from Becker Evans. You see, I see I just a Norman citizen, Ergo Desk, an Ipad homework and I'm actually using the one for the laptop on my desk, its white, lovely and its handmaid word, and you can find that it would fold dot. Com. Yeah, that's really site to behold- is amazing plastic

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swaying calling the search my father Lui Prima night by Alan you're, still science nearly explained by Dick Maxwell yet, and that is on Amazon. Kindle the vampire combat manual from our body, Roger my room to sinister zombie combat manual yeah, and I imagine pretty soon we can have a werewolf combat manual. I would hope snows Rogers get lazy and drunkenness, which is a children's, but from John and Tonia and Matthew and Tony at those sweet as a graphic, novel, Yannick Citizen, cool stickers from eight one, one graphics that come to this looks. Nice must see what else we got another postcard from Rapid Louie from Emily, be that rhymes. While we got trifle while it from try hold from trifled wallet,

you should give pay for this. There's a dude name. Lar see who can I went all over the place? He went to less cobras Us Carbo, of course, the same her yours placed the Arrow Philadelphia. Calgary Montreal Nova, Scotia Candid took us with them incentives for cards along the way, some things large air Cooper that you for your cool from poor poster versions of some of your best stuff. You should know Photoshop jobs, yes about these, that's not the first time a symposium. Why aren't regular coop? We got a nice poster grand from Michael Store. Carolyn Larsa Finis magnetic skulls yeah, those are awesome. They are those days a dead skulls year of her own aren't. I believe I think I've got her down to you and I have her website. It is, I believe, Carolyn Larsson art dot com. If I come across a correct myself as that's wrong, I'm pretty sure that threat

I got one more for now and then You pick one we're good one, and I will take this up again, four Dunaway since admitted tree scarred than this. Just a scarf, that you go pick a tree. The loss of our planet. It is pretty darn cute in that it makes the city more nice to thank. You didn't work done with it, and then I got a nice handmade birthday card for me, specifically nice from Aspires K, Army member Courtney, Hoover's thanks lapsed and that's administrative details for this week, heart one as far as this This goes. We ve got this for the next six months and I am right. It is Carolyn Larsson ART, see a r o ally and de L A are as an art dotcom, yet dilatory scarf yeah. That's what I said in the school movement

Ok, let's see, if you want to tweet to us, you can join us on Twitter. It s. Why escape pod cast! You can join us on Facebook, dot com, slash that you should know you can send us a good old fashion website visit to duff. You should know that count for more on this and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works out com.

I dont think America has ever gone back to the way that it was before the DC sniper. The gunman most likely assailed marksmen fired. Six times in the course of sixteen hours, the police say they have never had a crime. Quite like this. It is quite a mystery and then, as the DC sniper case, unfolded that terror boldly drew. This was the most intense manhood in american law enforcement. History, listen to monster DC, sniper on the I heard radioactive apple podcast or wherever you get your packets.