Almost three percent of Americans suffer from a debilitating disorder that causes them to suffer intense fear seemingly without reason and science hasn’t yet figured out what causes it. Join Josh and Chuck in this classic episode as they get to the bottom of panic attacks.
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Euro VI everyone from October, two thousand fourteen my saturday Select picked for the week. How panic attacks work?
is very sad and serious stuff? Everybody panic attacks are terrifying.
They are a real deal stuff and never had one. I've had friends and family
that have had them and if it's tough stuff, so if you
from them or have friends or family that do I want to
listen, maybe this will help out release, bring a better understanding about how panic attacks work.
Welcome to step you should now production of Iheart Radios, Housetop work work under the bog gets them George Report, their childhood mutual bright, Jerry stuff. You should know the widespread pact. Did you see the video no, which those a dude
like two days ago that went up one and attack the bay? Oh, no,
I didn't see the year and they got the whole thing, and it was during one of the really repetitive drones,
parts of a song- and I haven't seen next
nation, but that those I went to the widespread panic facebook thing can there was a big threat about people talking about it, and I do said he wrote.
You really people gang violently good here
at a later date, usual, I thought was pretty funny. He attacked the members of the ban, yeah like physically and couldn't quite the attack the drummer in he was upset. And while I don't know that part of the song made him snap but
was definitely one of those repetitive back thank back thing over and over here, but he was at the time
Oh so that be weird unless he went there to attack them here as pie, the bath salts. Maybe so so or don't tell him of that kind of panic. Morris psychotic break- and this is not widespread at all- is very individualised panic. It is, but it turns out. People suffering from this is kind of widespread about that turf, it'll overture. Instead, we're talking about panic attacks and the combination of panic attacks or the culmination of panic attack. Secondly, do something called panic disorder and it is a Sukhi
Mental condition yeah that about two point: eight percent of Americans, which is a pretty significant amount of people. Yet it's this more than bipolar, which we ve covered yeah instead of running a yeah Ando CD, which we well, we ve covered all three this year. So that's a pretty significant amount of people who suffer from panic disorder right above its different than just a plain old panic, a taxi, even though they have panic disorder. Yet there panic attacks. But if your panic attacks, you don't necessarily have panic disorder right exactly and I've had to experiences which I'll talk about it.
Some point through the show, not personally but Emily had a panic attack once and for new college at a panic attack, a roommate and neither one of them had panic disorders is just an isolated incident yeah. So parents
its own of commons, the right word yes, but people do have panic attacks and they, but they
they that might be the only one they ever have for their entire lives and helps, which makes the whole thing kind of mysterious and wished say. Like science does not know,
what exactly is going on here that some theories there, but there's there's no, there's no way to predict.
What's happening now, even if its genetic or what
environmental while they finally isolated Jean last year. I guess and go and talk about that now. Ok in December,
Thirteen they isolated. The gene- and you know genes are always so boring with their names unless it, Sir summits attracted,
the income already three. They
may be responsible because its presence appears to cause and over estimate
of fear and danger in an over activation of the Hippocampus and a Magdala. So basically, if you have this gene you're gonna exaggerate your fear overall, ok, but that it is not like they're saying they prove that's the cause right, but that is a good step in
scientifically redirect that's a huge step, because I mean that does sound very much like what a panic attack is panic attack is where you experience
a very pronounced sense of fear, and basically your fight or flight symptoms response.
Really from what I can understand. Your flight responds yeah, like
not in a position to fight or freeze cause. You know now, these days, its fight, flight or freeze are really going to the others. A third
now like Robin role kind of here Holloway those options are to sequence right. This is these are options
when confronted with amateurs Nick there, nobody, the comedian dude, have you seen his hind feet adds. Yet these are also yeah. I was
that's Nick Food and he's on like Miss America here. The first thing I think about is good for you: cash, those checks baby
yeah hears it funny, bet on start drop in wrong like they needed to continue. That, like keep rolling, is like that's gonna key, don't stop drop in role. Does you'll be consumed by fire. You need to keep rolling right up until you get to adore year, three funny stuff. So this is a little different fight. Flight freeze, yellow
was satisfies, factor and like it frees up and now get host legally certain official of these adaptations to danger, but basically
When you, when you confronted with danger, you can either fight by a phrase that makes total since on the, why freeze was never in there to begin with,
so many people freeze, they decided on the last couple years. I think I'm a flyer freezer for sure it depends. I don't know, do you think, there's a personality type, oh boy! Now you know, don't you think it's possibly like just what your body chemistry happens to be doing right then now think some people are more inclined to fight for sure. Ok
or with panic attacks Europe flying you had better, only that's your J M right there, you and your experiencing it in the exact same way that somebody's coming too much
you write or as pulled a knife on you in your running away or there's a lion chasing. You accept. This is the key to panic, attack,
There is no. Why and there is no mugger
there's, no knife, there's no discernible!
reason for you to be experiencing this sudden on set of crippling fear by your experiencing it. Nonetheless, that's right. No, no tangible thing happening right in that moment right. So when you come out of it and these things can they peak within about ten minutes
these. The symptoms can last for an hour or more
You come out of a year like I don't ever want that to happen again near the place that this just happen say the park.
I'm never going back to begin now. I associated with this, because what you're doing when you experience, fear you're learning to stay awake?
Something gets so whether you want to or not you ve just been condition to fear the place that you just worker cause. You had a panic attack and then, lastly, you think possibly you're crazy.
Yeah we're having a heart attack there. That's both both of my wife and my friend both thought they were having hearted tax, which is super scary and we'll get the difference later on. But I guess we should talk about. Do some of the initial symptoms of a panic attack, the old DSM
agnostic in statistical manual of mental disorders, lists, looks like about ten symptoms and if you have at least four of these, you may be having a panic attack, witches heart, pounding, shaking dizziness, sweating, choking, feeling nausea, shallow or short breath. Chest pain them
Four tingling chosen hot flashes feeling of unreality feel like you're, going crazy or feeling like you're about to die. Yeah you got for those you have in a panic attack
yes and if you have for panic attacks with him for weeks or you have one panic attack and then fear
having another panic attack for about a month or so yeah, then we, u can be diagnosed with, what's called panic
Sworder. So if you listen to our fear, podcast, which was a really good one, it's kind of the same as a panic attack. We covered
Your autonomic nervous system is what maintains all the funds.
In your body, the involuntary functions in your body. That is
and it's gonna take signals from your central nervous system. It's gonna ready,
your organs. That's why you don't have to tell your heart, beat your kid needs to work on your pancreas to secrete stuff. That's right!
It's your autonomic nervous system and as two parts, the sympathetic and parasympathetic and your parasympathetic controls. Like a said, your beer, heartbeat and stuff like that you're the norm.
Aspect yeah. I just leave you here, homeostasis right, yet a balance that my all seek, that we don't know where seeking
and then the sympathetic is if you
that Firefly, if you become excited
in any way really that's one. That's gonna kick and gets like normal,
and then high year give us
sphere, you now just any kind of excitement right, you could be super happy, it could be sexual arousal. That's all your sympathetic, nervous system right in those two components make up the autonomic nervous system.
Which a kind of switches from one to the other, depending on your state of arousal right, that's right, but when
Fear has aroused you you're sympathetic, nervous system kicks into high gear and adrenaline is released, which is a huge factoring, causing the symptoms of a panic,
attack. They are you, you start breathing very heavily in in shallow early, your pupils dilate, you are, we always used to say if you're digestion
food. You stop do in their own right briskly. All of your energy is transferred over to either fighting are flying in the case of a panic attack is transferred over to get
you to be able to run away as fast as possible, yeah, which
can be little scary, but in a real fear situation. If your endanger your parasympathetic nurse systems, gonna kick in and calm down, but that is not what happens in the case of a panic attack which is really perplexing. So as three cap, this a panic attack is when you experienced this
credibly, intense fear, so much so that you run away, but there's nothing there to be afraid of and then and then to make everything.
A million times worse. Your parasympathetic nervous system doesn't care
in in calm you down like it would under normal circumstances, so you get to experience, is horrible thing even longer that right
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all right so like us before breaking
whose, from December last year, they think they ve isolated a gene previous to that Dave's. Some research has said it could be genetic because identical twins experience it more than four tunnel twins, but it's always been sort of up an ear. The been contradictions as well ragged genetic
They think it's also possibly epigenetic or environmental like gum of. Apparently one study found that a lot of people who have panic disorder had some sort of traumatic incident happened in their childhood. My friend from college did, is I write it so there thinking like possibly it had some sort of effect then set up,
a time bomb for later on in life, yet stored, feelings that maybe you ve never dealt with about.
Dramatic event are gonna they're gonna rear their head at some point in your life in some way yet or it just rearing
the neural output in your brain, so that one day you're just set up when everything is just right, yeah that chemistry.
Flooding your brain in a certain way in the it comes out of nowhere. You ever panic attack
Another theory is that they think, if you have an over active fear system, like you, basically Pepin scared, too much life or you
scared person. Then it's just gonna make it a hair trigger for something to set it off right, which makes a lot of sense. I think it could be a combo woloda things yet as usual,
yeah. I wonder the way what it will end up being, though, if we find that there is one thing that that leads to this. Predictably,
like a luxury these built up. But then there is the actual trigger right ear and that's another
who's. They don't know what triggers these things. They do. No they're a panic attack being war
about having a panic attack, you can actually trigger a panic attack. Ass loudly ass feel so bad for people in this order. This is like a terrible affliction. Yelk, as you do become very much afraid.
That you're going to have another panting attack, so that can set off a panic attack, but it also can set off a co. Morbidity called Agoraphobia,
where you're afraid to leave your house, but you also afraid to be alone, and I read the sum this article- that was from the eighties nineteen eighty seven and they were saying, like the M thief Roy Nests, the Freud missed followers of Sigmund Freud,
you were saying: oh well clearly, if you're in a Gore phobic, you don't want to go outside because that's where sexual desire is yes and you don't wanna be alone, because you're worried that you will like amuse yourself right. So a Goro phobia
in any event, shut up Fridays
and I M so nowadays they they have realised that agoraphobia is almost almost exclusively the result of panic disorder. I really air, and it's because you, you
fear, the place that you had a panic attack, so you don't want to go there again and then
Maybe it happened again at the grocer source. You wanna go there and happen
You don't want to be alone. They you dont, want to be around stranger, so you clean your family members here and now,
sudden you're not living your life anymore. You're, developing phobias, because of your panic attacks in your association with, unlike if you're on an elevator and you have a panic attack
no elevator again brought again ve just developed a phobia for elevators and so all of a sudden, not
to be working at a place where you my normally work as you have to take the elevator to to get there or you develop a love of stairs right, but then what? If you dont like confined spaces at all? Like a stairwell media,
yeah. You have remarked in the stairwell here the building in his walk down our many flies till you're. The lobby here,
I can get out down there, yes, dear you're, not
silly locked in use had to walk all the way down. To usually does call you and say. Let me,
Another theory is that when you are super tired and overworked was well a lot of times when these are set off, your brain is producing sodium lie.
Date or co2, and when those levels increase your brain says you know what I think, you're suffocating, and so I'm going to send a signal
to get you a lot more oxygen and at a found, this really sad case of this woman, a unit
today student who died from an severe asthma attack like three days ago,
and she had had a history of asthma and then told,
called the medics that she was gone through. A final exams and she had been having panic attacks for in the weeks like proceeding. So breathing is a huge part of panic.
Action, as evidenced by her. If you have asthma, its can be deadly, which is super super scary and sad. It said there
Then one other, I guess
there's a neurological basis. They believe for people who have panic attacks. People who suffer from pact disorder tend to have fewer serotonin receptors, yet and apparently also gather which helps us get to sleep. It's called a gamma amino butte, tiring acid. Those caught gab you'll get those to have some sort of role in panic disorder like you, don't
enough serotonin toning near bodies, not producing of Gabby. You may be prone to panic disorder. They, the other, isn't like a specific type of person. That necessarily gets a panic attack. It can have in any one but
usually it happens if any
you're in your twenties. Although they say kids,
It is well have a panic attack or disorder
So many women have a panic disorder develop when his men, which is pretty interesting and, like you said just the fear like having had one before that fear, can lead to more so it's recycled.
Yes- and you know that one paper from eighty seven- I I can't tell if it
arguing in favour of panic disorder being like it
evolutionary adaptation yeah, unlike possibly beneficial or if they were saying, like some people, think this can you believe this. But there is one of the points that this guy made was well twice as many women have panic disorders, men bright so clearly its in evolutionary adaptation. Because,
men women have had to have gone as far away from camp while they were gathering food. Iran
Yes, your men couldn't stand to have a panic attacker. They couldn't
it wouldn't be an adaptation for men right, it would be for women plus women can't run is fast when they have kids to carry
they need to be on the alert a little more gotcha, it's to smell, like bunk yeah, nineteen, eighty, seven bunk, there's a bigger for bunk,
If you do have a panic disordered, you may
the hard time getting your family too.
Stand it sometimes.
They overreact and think it's like away more severe than it is sometimes a under react and say you know it's all in your head right, like just calm down, but either way saying boy you're, nuts or you just need to relax
Neither one of those is gonna, help out yelped loved one chill out. There's no blue eye! One can help it
One thing: I've learned in arguments and fights with my wife is an
Well, in this early on is saying telling someone to relax, never causes someone to relax
No! It's like not the worst thing you can do if something's heated is to say just relax. It is true that just gonna ramp up, yes, says my advice were couples other in any relationship, really scared vice chuck.
Thank you. There is a silver lining. The all this in that panic disorder is actually highly treatable. The treatment they ve come up with a pretty successful, and we will talk about those.
Treatments right after this,
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You mentioned that they are treatable. They have found success rates through medication and therapy which seem to be about the same as far as how effective they are between sixty and ninety percent of the time. That's pretty good, yes, not bad at all. So that's the Good NEWS. So there's three there's three typical methods of treatment: anti depressants untying
eighty pills and therapy and you might use them in an independent of one another in conjunction with one another ass, a sub beta blockers. Some people use beta blockers to treat him but they're, not quite sure. What's going on with that, I've used those before lie: performances
the ones I read about that. You gave me one and I was like a useless worm tat. It didn't affect me like that. I was I just
I totally lost my personality. I wasn't nervous, but I didn't do anything while gotten used to lie performing ass. I don't need any more, but I got that tip for Emma. Apparently, a bunch of musicians like an symphonies instead use amounts like well if a first year violinist, if it hadn't, been for their degree of me, some beta blocker dear, but worked for me, but like us, Adam Overall, that enjoy being on stage now so with the SS
guys here, which is what you moved. Aren't you from beta blockers right now, not, and so it s our eyes deserves selective serotonin re uptake inhibitors
and they do exactly what they sound like. You get got a bunch of serotonin receptors in your brain. If you have panic disorder, you may have fewer serotonin risks
in your brain serotonin is a narrow transmitter that helps basically stabilizer mood by either,
causing a neuron to fire or
bidding a neuron to fire in this really beautiful perfectly balanced chemical reactions right. So, if you have few of these receptors, the normal you're going to be comparatively out of ballast, what unnecessary I and antidepressant does is
allows the serotonin to kind of staying your snaps as a little longer than is normal, so that you
who are releasing a little more serotonin, then
would, under normal circumstances and its proven pretty effective,
For fur panic disorder yeah, I mean they
work wonders for a lot of people for a lot of reasons, but now
everyone and they can cause a lot of negative side effects.
So obviously you know work with your doktor on a programme and it takes them a little while like two to four weeks to begin working right for
panic attack and anti anxiety drug like Xanax,
be a little more effective, because that is,
immediately hits you. It is a tranquilizer benzodiazepines,
and it's you know, this annex is gonna
I'll kill you out immediately, but you can get hooked on those things. Pretty quick,
yeah and their dangerous to quit, cold Turkey,
and it is not the best thing to go to annex allied, well, yeah. They they say that you should. Basically, if you
If you undertake an this hour. I regimen you king conceivably, say on it for years here if you underlined
anti anxiety or benzodiazepines regimen like it. It shouldn't last for more than a couple weeks or months from what I understand because of their dependency and again
you wanted like really do all of this, with, like a qualified, competent doctors, assistance sure not a doctor's assistant, doctors, assistance. It depends if it's a qualified, competent doctors, assistants who can write prescriptions.
Just go for MR and then there's therapy. Of course, the old c b T cognitive Behavioral therapy, which we ve talked about a bunch but on that is
they're going to start? The process is going to play out like this they're, going to teach you about your panic disorder, which is a big step. If you understand something, you can
come at more easily. I think they're gonna monitor you and you're gonna self, monitor in record your symptoms and when they happen and why they happen. What the circumstance was breathing like we mention is a huge part of it anything from meditation to just regular breeding exercises, which will give you some tips on that in a minute to
are going to help you out and then the old exposure to situations than this is once you've rethought like your what's, your approach is going to be like here's, your new outlook and now here's a situation that might give you a panic attack. How do you feel
yeah or like if you had a panic attack in an elevator like. I may tell you to imagine your in an elevator. Your therapy might progress until
you're actually in an elevator children out. I- and the hope is that, if, if you can undergo exposure therapy to that,
three. It will get you over year. Panic attacks in general. Another aspect of it shook his reason
king and that is basically accepting the fact that you have panic attacks. Apparently, if
you can say, I'm having a panic attack or I have panic attacks, new acknowledged to yourself and other people here. It immediately turned down the volume on the whole thing
yeah. I noticed some similarities in someone guiding through.
Someone through an lsd trip.
And getting someone through a panic, attack, yeah
Trusting a lot of it is like understanding like
having an acid trip.
Having a good time and the same thing is I'm having a panic attack, and this is no good great, and if I understand that, then I can come down more easily and keeping a dangerously due to freak out more exactly so that c, B.
He cognitive behavioral therapy and dumb. If you, if you
go therapy and you're still suffering from panic attacks. The apparently being discouraged is a real problem with people with panic disorder yeah. Can you
still suffer a even if you're doing everything right and so a lot of people learn to cope in their some. Pretty common coping techniques for panic disorder and, like you said at the heart of the whole thing, is breathing like when you suffer a panic attack. You start breathing shall and quickly
and you can hyper ventilate. Why you wanna do is breathed from your diaphragm and that you can actually practices in the times when you not having a panic,
attack, you have your singer. You know how to breathe with your diaphragm, but if you're not what you can do as well,
down on your back put some pillars on your head and knees and
hand, on your stomach and a hand on your chest and then practice breathing and making her hand on your stomach, move without the hand on your chest moving and then tap the hand on your stomach or
the circle, with the hand on your chest, who really allow threat impressive
and then another,
then you can do is just literally like put await, on your stomach
minister, you heavy now like a book sure like a nice ATLAS
there you can see going up and down we're breathing through diaphragm the trade
and you want to just kind of breathe in the good exhale, the bad
like I'm having a panic attack. This will pass. You know this will subside. This is a temporary feeling. Limit should be saying to herself and if your person, whose like our public and you, see somebody having a panic attack, you basically want to do the same thing that they're trying to do for themselves. You want to remain calm. You wanna tell him that
going to be over with pretty soon that everything's. Ok, they have nothing to fear yeah. You don't want to turn the chill out there.
Guiding someone through relaxation is different than saying chill out by the way. I very different they
recommend that you, if you have a problem with with attacks in general or
of a disorder. You should exercise a lot. You should practice, they don't call it meditation
but that's really what it is is deep. Breathing and relaxation is called mindfulness these days. I think that's what they call it cause meditation turns people offer, I guess interesting,
cut, cut out the caffeine and sugar and nicotine there's a big one
let us not gonna help you at all doing all those things,
you know what this stuff is stuff. It's building up inside of you, which it often is, learn how to express yourself a little more and and talk about your issues. I know that in both of my case is my buddy in college
It was during finals, weak and I had gone to bed and my roommate in another dude had were out in the living room. Staying up,
and one of them came and woke me up and he's like dude he's. A heart attack he's having a heart attack.
And I don't know
panic attacks. We took in the hospital of course, and that's all it was. It was a panic attack. You calm down, I think gum think they might have given him something. There met some sort of medication. The common down, probably benzodiazepines, you're, probably like a good shot in the arm of that stuff.
And he's like I'm fine, I hit with Emily's case she had been under a lot of stress and was
driving back from Akron Ohio to Atlanta think she went to get things to get some furniture something's issues in a tree
like a moving try. Other distrustful of it had been drinking
I feel like crazy, like she does and basically
he started to have trouble breathing on the highway, go like eighty down the highway and had to pull over called me and at the eunuch, a convoy down like our it now get back on the road
The idea should get back on the highway and immediately freaked out again
and PLUTO Cincinnati
winter o Dell and drove her home nice near I mean
no choice at that point. You know when it's your wife, you plus it was a good opportunity to get on the white horse. You know and right in and save
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and always also wanted to run the airport say like Gimme a one way ticket to somewhere
That's my way, my way time for your body scan pretty much that are up, and so she checked herself into a hotel and I went there and had some nice Cincinnati, Skyline Chile.
And then the next morning we hit the road yells good thickets
she hasn't had one since then think good. Despite, like you know, chief, she has a lot of anxiety just as a human, but I'm no panic about,
so it a deafening have seen the things I saw in this article
other than whether it was during finals, like the thing
going on in her life at the time are super stress. Warm, I think the trigger was. She doesn't like see great at night or in the rain when she's driving- and I think all these things compounded and displayed out to where she felt like she's having a heart attack gas and
did my friend, but I guess we should mention that there are some telltale signs of a heart attack: yeah, that's a big begun, yet that you can recognize the difference.
Because you don't want actually be having a heart attack now and be like ice, is appended attach. Esprit through marriage has breathed while you're dying here. If you tips from the American Heart Association pressure in the centre of your chest, the persist longer than a couple of minutes or goes away than returns, shortness of breath, pain in the arm or upper body. You might feel nauseous her faint and, of course, if you're ever endowed call nine. When one is like, you said you to want to be having a heart attack thinking, it's will subside now
there'll be egg on your face. Well, say the oasis, exactly if you want to know more about panic, attacks and panic disorder type either. One of those such words into the search bar has to works and it'll bring up this article and since I said that it's time for listener, maybe a couple
Basement fear. You guys know most listeners than your pike S, great learning, an entertainment, but I found another purpose, distraction from straw
induce irrational fears, sons familiar where its time others capping
I didn't even realize it didn't even realize it unethical serendipity. I grew up in a house with a creepy grosbeaks
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to a house with a non creepy and non gross basement. But I think the stress of planning
Wedding is getting to me because, when I need to go
into the basement to do laundry nearly have a panic attack. Imagining a person lurking in the basement started playing episode
stuff. You should know what my Iphone and carrying it in my pocket when I need to go down to the basement. Stay back spirit accept
so we literally accompany her into the basement. Jamaica's hysterical,
busy enough enjoying your humor and information that I don't
overwhelmed by this. Irrational fear think it may
be waiting. Now so continue to make myself go down into the basement and see that my fears not really
and in a reality, at all that c b, T s exposure therapy again boom nice? Also before this we're basement your butter? By long called you guys, my cleaning grew his Ellison episodes while doing my chores and that, as from Kelsey in Kansas City, Kansas, not kids,
City Missouri, those and Kelsey good luck with that, and just don't look behind that door.
Those are near the washing machine, just gettin Kelsey, there's nothing down there. Just take us with you! Won't we will protect. You get his spirits. Don't like us now. The podcast is coming from inside the House view and again touch with checker me. You can tweet to us it s. Why escape? I guess you can join us on Facebook, that calm flesh, stuffy sugar
You can send an email to stuff, Podcast S house, the forks that camp and as always to any sort of home on the web stuff. You should know doc
study should know, is production of I radios how stuff works for more podcast
radio. I have really Apple Podcast
where every listen to your favorite shut.
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Transcript generated on 2020-08-22.