You at Lexus their greatest curiosity is you because the most amazing machines are inspired by machines, their inspired by people? That's why Lexus ask different questions better questions, more human questions, like? Can you see with your here's an answers are, is inspiring as you are, which may leave you with one question What amazing ideas will inspire? You next discover the answers at Lexus, DOT, com, slash curiosity, hey everybody! It's me Josh and for this week's as well as case Lex, have chosen an episode on placebos. It's an episode, chock full of back to the pod cast and yet shut comes out with one of the all time, great right out of the gate, but don't listening. Then the whole episode is amazingly wonderful, which is why I chose it so enjoy it

welcome to step. You should now a production of Iheart radios. Housetop work. Are you invoking the buggy Josh clerk Charles to reach a bright there's Jerry Placebo do Sir now those bad chuck. Yes, you ever heard of poor pussy, both Dusar a placebo economy, tell everybody I shall see. No, I will please

so please let us we'll see about that. I shall please I met in Latin, yes right, so Placebo Airbus, her to a placebo, an famously the placebo effect. You wanna, hear that comes from the pussy were affected, netherward placebo, oh yeah, fourteenth century it referred to hired mourners at funerals. What they would hire mourners in place of family members, and they would start their morning wailing with the morning, but is in M O. You are right.

Placebo domino in regime before him, I, which means I shall please the Lord in the land of the living, but in that it means placebo. This article said it carries the connotation of substitution. Weird here. That is fantastic stuff. I thought so. This is from placebos impossibile effects in medicine, Colin, historical overview by Thyssen, CAP Chuck Green in region, a cap check that guy is high quality. Oh yeah, yeah. A lot is adaptive said that Turkey is at Harvard material of it about tat capture. The island gap jokes. I just raised a lot of sceptics hackles, because some people see him as a huckster of fraud or everything is wrong with policy. Both these people would probably have a problem with us even talking seriously about the placebo.

In the first place near so I don't know that it's a really big deal that I just raise their hackles, but take care check, is a former owes me fifty bucks. Let me tell you about catch now, he's a former acupuncture wrist and He apparently had some sort of epiphany one day when he was he was treating somebody and they started to feel better before it. Even who's, the acupuncture, so he started wondering Ike, ok, what's going on here and he asserted investigating a placebo effect and ensure order, he ended up as an instructor at Harvard and be, came one of the leading researchers into the placebo effect which is a really strange journey because Harvard Medical School doesn't usually higher acupuncture tourists yeah and he like kind of a rocky road at first, like you didn't know what he was doing with clinical trials and he got public

called out in the New England Journal of Medicine. And over the years over the decades. It think this is the aid is that he really started to look into it. He, I guess it became the foremost researcher in in coming up with quality clinical trials, for trying to get to the root of what the policy both act is an how to use. What years worth was that you know where he is. Are we doing now? But when was this when he was started all that stuff, our pig I called out- and I think a two thousand one issue- allow New England Journal Medicine basically not using a control group in his placebo study. So you know when you you do a study. You have a placebo group, which is your control group and that basic please I'm giving you real medicine, but I'm good Jerry, a sugar pill and in a proper study-

No, who is getting this european, whose getting the medicine Scott double Blind right. So in a if you're, studying just a placebo affair, I should be giving you a placebo and I should be given Jerry, no treatment whatsoever to truly. I thought you needed three people, one, the real treatment one with pussy bone, one with no treatment. It's another way to do it. At the very least, though, you need the placebo group, an somebody who's receiving no treatment, gotcha, say yeah if we're gonna, get well, if you're doing good science researching into the placebo effect, but What's ironic is, is this whole double blind placebo study came about because the placebo effect was first noticed by western practitioner by the name of Doktor Henry Beecher, whom were award Who supposedly saw a nurse give a shot a sailing into a soldier because, had run out of morphine, but then

told them it was morphine, and the soldier responded to this shouted Sally like it was morphine, and from that feature, was like what is going on here, started to investigate the placebo effect and ended up proposing the double blind, placebo study to prove the efficacy of drugs did give back further than that. My friend, let's hear it, man try seventeen eighty five, the Newman call dictionary, they described the placebo as a commonplace method or medicine, and then a short time later, and eighteen Levin and Quincy's lexicon medical. He define their placebos and epithet given to any medicine adapted more to please than to benefit the patient like heroin, so thereon it back in the early eighteen. Hundreds, which is surprising, yeah,

by men like that's the basis of the snake. Oil and huckster is right. The air, while they call them bread pills back, then cause I guess it was. It was probably some sort of like pyramid of yeast is my guess, K and Thomas. Jefferson in one eighteen, o, seven even record of what he called the pious fraud. They observe quote that one of successful positions. I've ever known is assured me that he used more bread bills, drops of colored water and powders hickory ash than all other medicines put together in people treated people bills in early eighteen hundreds. It was a thing, They were way onto the placebo effect and in the fact that it seem to work and another dude named John Hogarth in We eighteen hundreds actually started performance. The first studies on placebos effect an arm. He said it went back to the renaissance idea that

donation was the major mediator between body in mind, which is starting to be proven, is possibly correct, it's pretty interesting in the nineteen? Thirty? Is this when they started publishing papers on the placebos? An actual doing clinical trials, and they said one other points in the nineteen. Thirty, with confidence aroused and treatment the encouragement afforded by new for procedure then, like just people getting treated in a new way, people say: oh, this is gonna work right and it maybe did work and then were up to the forties were Beecher comes along nourishes. The placebo effect self ultimately comes up with the double blind, placebo based study and was ironic. But that is the placebo. Both based double bind study ultimately has split back off into the study of placebo, again because there are so many trials where the placebo was more effective than the drug. Even though the drug worked, but the policy work, even better

finally, in the ninety nine is people like what is going on here, we need to study This thing in and of itself we have because one of the things I had no idea, I thought placebos were only use and studies for efficacy rates. I did not know that they are. There are doctors always been and still are, prescribing placebos yeah as medicine, unknowingly, even though they're not supposed to look at them, later no knowingly, no unknowingly for the patient right, even other supposed to tell the patient yeah we'll get to that toward the end, but I had no idea that they were prescribing. People to people. Yet, in their defence a lot of times, doctors are carrying out this somewhere, they don't have any thing else to prescribe, but they can't said if they say that to their pay. Their patients sing. I often suffer so at the very least they can use. The last is a ditch attempt of saying psychological trickery

Yeah yeah I'm a knocking it. I just was surprised to learn that that still happened. Yet I'm wondering if I've ever been given a placebo and it makes me feel bum- has a patient to say like em, in that what it would have, you gimme really helped in the doctors like physicists, is that how should we prank of like giving somebody non alcoholic beer until he has real beer and make it clear that in themselves, getting drunk successfully the same thing? So, let's talk about us though, we assume that everybody knows what placebo is, but let's define it a little more clearly. The placebo effect, specifically, the is the very real phenomenon that people when given a pill or a some sort of medical intervention that feel better. Yes, they feel better, even though what they ve been given is not medicine and is

Not actually real intervention in the placebo is the pill itself that that is the placebo and the effect is a way described rain, it doesn't have to be a pillar can be an injection, it can be fake surgery, em there's. The true and it doesn't even have to be firmer, ecologically inert it can. Is the pill itself, that that is the placebo, and the effect is what you described: rain. It doesn't have to be. A pillar can be an injection, it can be fake surgery, em, there's a true, and it doesn't even have to be firmer, hell yeah, like you, said, farmer, ecologically inner, and astoundingly, depending on the size of the pill, the shape of the pill, the color the pill. People have different effects in responses to these things that are just sugar.

So there's some really strange psychological things going on here and at first for a long time. Everybody just kind of assumed? It was just psychology that we were taking our son, and feeling better or We hadn't really fell bed in the first place right and we are being tricked into not feeling bad any longer, Ernie, not thinking we were feeling bad in an offshoot of hypochondria may be very much so yeah, as did they this article says they been shown to work in about thirty percent of patients and their Actually, that's based on beaches, finding it was like thirty, thirty five point: two yeah, that's what he found out and nineteen fifty five, that's what they're still basing them on yeah, but and other studies that have gone back through Beecher study. And said no, no, no! That's not that much. Other people have found up to sixty percent respond to it right in

Basically one of the big questions is: is it a psychological effect or are there actual actual physical responses that are going on and there's been a lot of research. Lately, that's pretty interesting! I write so like we're saying like these the initial idea- was that it was all psychological right. Yes, Well, I guess we can talk about the two effects. The subject expectancy effect, which is basically me if you know the result ahead of time in the pill, you're gonna take your gonna end up feeling that result rights of this was very percent. That's what a blind study seeks to prevent its right act expected see effect right also, the observer expectancy effect, which is what a double blind study, seeks to prevent yet and that's important, because it's a different because it's all self reported. Right, which is always a little piano hanky right. So the other idea, if it has a psychological basis, is that is classical conditioning right, that we are raised from birth to think that,

somebody gives you a pill you're going to respond to it because it has met. Yeah, and that is not self reported. That is actually seeing physical responses right and with classical conditioning of it established very famously by Pavlov in his dogs. You are you're having your responding physically to a psychological stimulus. Yes, right so you, you are getting a physiological response, so classical conditioning, eventually kind of came to be viewed as the more reasonable explanation of what was going on right, because if we study after study after study, has shown that we are having a physical reaction to these inert see both the one of em in two thousand to for a museum lays Neuro Psychiatric Institute. They had a couple of groups of patients and

a lot of this placebo studies or for mental conditions not often but a lot of mar or in like the clinical trials yeah exactly so this one was for any depressants and they had two groups that got experimental drugs like real drugs and then the third was given a placebo we spend a few weeks on these pills and monitor their brain activity with the old e g I wonder machine as well as on the wonder machine them or as the winners. It's it's a wonder machine. Not do you want in the patients on the placebo, reported positive effects and should greater increase of brain it poverty than those who had responded to the drug. I remember that it was this study. Dead, totally undermined people's faith in anti depressants, while there is on the other end of like the whole nineties, where I was on anti depressants, and I wasn't this stuff.

Came out and was like people are saying they do this, didn't work right, it was, it was gonna take. The opposite way, rather than while the placebo effect is really something. It was why I need a presence array fraudulent right right arena, where I wonder what they were trying to. It was a policy study, the right, yeah, so kind of backfired or yes, even care. No, I think it a very much care because their win camps The policy with the whole point of a right drug trial is to show that this drug is more effective than placebo, too. Effective than the imagination right right and, if its, not, then that means that drugs should be brought to market. Even though now the thinking is more like that's not us early true because we're coming now understand the placebo effect can be very powerful. Especially depending on the individual, to hear the Fisher interesting about that study is when the e g lit up active

He was in different parts of the brain that I think it a placebo patients had the prefrontal cortex was lighting up right and basically that says the brain. Is it being fooled? It's just doing something different yeah. They they respond better to the treatment than the people who responded to the drug yeah. So some people did respond to the drug, but different parts of their brain or activated by the drug than the people who responded. Well did a placebo, that's right, even though they felt better, that's mind. Boggling, it is so they had they reached this conclusion. But using it totally a region of the brain and actually felt better. There was the first study to prove There is a physiological response to placebos or last. There is a dental study from the seventies that I think was the first that showed that if you blocked endorphins, which our natures pain, reliever. Here You can also block the placebo effect so that the p

weren't responding to the placebo, like you would expect them to a pain, reliever, placebo yeah because they were able to. Release, their natural pain, relievers yeah, that's backed up, I guess by this two thousand force from the University of Michigan Go Wolverines yeah a basically demonstrated that it is related to endorphin, specifically to Agnes, set backs up that study, because if we can welcome so here's the thing It's not. That study was related to endorphin. Specifically, other studies have found that it can be related to how much a person expresses dopamine, specifically rights, oh there's like this idea that there is a genetic basis to a predisposition to policy both near, but I think that its depending on the drug or the effect that you're trying to induce using the placebo effect because think about it.

That there is a genetic basis to a predisposition to policy both there. But I think that its depending on the drug or the effect that you're trying to induce Oh then, somebody who doesn't produce more endorphins, naturally yeah, so there's a genetic basis to it. I guess, but I think the genetic basis The individual must be predisposition to be able to have that genetic response right to the drug or the policy boat and have that that that I guess response to it. Yet it like you, said it's also personal, because they found that it is even affected by a person's personal experience. With past pills by the color of the pill, the shape and size of the bill will have a different reaction because the person it may be took

another little blue pill for something else. Sure and actually blue pills ends in particular, is known to be tat, sedative effects as placebos right, pills are known to have stimulating campaign, relieving effects as placebo ass either they made Viagra Blue near, like inevitably marketed it as the little blue bill right, interesting, set sedative that yes, so to about that right. Now, we ve got more stuff about all this. Coming up on our again. What talk about next, its grab background. Hello, you should know listeners. Do you want a new year's resolution? That's easy to keep yes resolve to help put Your identity and personal info with lifelong identity, theft, protection, lifelong alert, you to potential threats

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We're back body, and I tell you what we're gonna talk about, something that I had never heard, of, which I think is super interesting I know that no seo effect ass. It is, brutal, and that is when, while took there's a couple of things, that is when you are taking up the sea by a new experience. Maybe the effects of the pill, which is great and the side effects of that fill that you think might be with the you're supposed to have right. You actually experiencing side effects that aren't shouldn't, be their right and raises a sugar, but they noticed this in clinical trials to because, when you're carrying on a clinical trial, you have to warn the patient's. Yet this drug may give you these rights arable side effects. And so they started noticing like people who were who were on placebo, were still experiencing the sight of physical reactions, like hives yeah itching in things right. So there is a there's, a negative

two placebos. Well, no Ignacio means I shall harm like placebo means. I shall please yeah, and they found that in. This is definitely backed up by the idea that its classical conditioning they found that people who have gone through My therapy can become nauseated when the inner room, that's painted the same colors, the room where they receive chemo before they make sense yeah. So there's all sorts of ways that the no seeber effect can pop up, but it's pretty mind boggling as well yet, and that no see Balkan doesn't even have to be just with a placebo. You can experience, side effects that are on the list of a real drug because of what we were talking about because it looked like another pill you might have had before yeah man, the brain, powerful stuff. So going back to CAP Chuck who I'm undiscovered fan of ice,

Then he owes you fifty yeah. I think your fear into like our long form articles, which I love you go to Harvard magazine and search for the policy, both phenomenon and its profile at him in his work. It's really interesting stuff, He was saying that you kind of in line with the idea that, like the color of the pill, is safe for the pill will have an effect one by either on the nocebo or the placebo effect right. He was saying that it seems, like the basis of the placebo effect, is what's called ritual yeah a ritual is. It involves everything from like the physicians bedside manner to how expensive the patient thinks. The pill is here to how effective the patient thinks the pillars, and he did a study where he carried out what was called schmaltz ie, like a small, see care

to where he was uses, lavishing attention on the ownership and telling them how badly he felt that they were going through, but this bill is really effective, with your condition and apparently that's it. Study. But other studies show that there is a positive correlation between the ritual, yeah and response the placebo effect. Yet the more you think that this drug is expensive, that this drug is effective, that this a physician cares about you, the greater of a placebo response, you're going to have yeah yeah, I have ever been accused of being a hypochondriac by anyone. Know it's gotta to be very demeaning. It is because it happened to me oh yeah yeah. I went to the emergency room in New York. As you know, when we were up there recently for a trip

I went to the e, are you and me, and then suddenly it was something in it was a result of it was. It was. Throwing up in nausea. From I learned from anti inflammatory pills I was taking at the time for something else had nothing to do with the insect and they figure that out, but they kept in the sky. Columnar Jackie. He was just like nurse take some music dude. He kept coming by and treated me with things and give me the IV drip and I was like dude, I'm not feeling better, and I'm not a hypochondriac and anyway I didn't go the doktor for like eighteen year straight and I could Oh, he was looking at me like. I got one of these guys remit seeking yeah and I was like now no- and I could tell I could sense it so we finally gaming this thing to drink that knocked me out. I woke up twenty minutes later and felt felt better. While I was it

can't remember it was something to Gatorade. Now it's like three different things is like a cocktail of stomach pleasing things and what's the stuff that, like numbs, you and I know my throat- and I can't remember, lidocaine, I think, and it worked out with Petya worked. I woke up, I feel better. I suddenly, I don't feel so. Nauseous now and. Check him out and reached up, and I felt by my ear it for some. It felt like a golf ball behind my ear and it'd popped up in the last twenty minutes While I was literally leaving us like a wait a minute. I got this thing behind my ear, all of a sudden and the skylight, you like a call the doktor. And she was like yeah. It's it's very swollen at your lymph node, but he wasn't there for that, so he came back over. So I guess what you say. I said what she said so swollen left and he said, your hypochondriac, and I was so mad. It nurse Jackie here, like dude, look at its huge,

not making this up, and I let start defending myself like I never go to doctors and I'm not one of those people and he was he was like. I was just kidding just kidding has this kid and give it it. May it totally made me feel like a church media heads in. If, like you, if they happen to you a lot to a minute detail, that means you're hypochondriac, but now Every man maybe felt at an hour. He was getting, but it made me feel really bad like I'm in there. This was the syndrome when Charles and is at it. Yeah yeah we did want enough is out on that too near Sorry about that, the well! I'm sorry that that happened to you that that is B S, but you It's in the ivy yeah guarantee those two sailing in that's a placebo in itself, now mean they told me that I mean they didn't say like that. This is the wonder back right, but there is basically no reason did give you sailing solution. Well,.

Two hydrate me. I guess if I'd been thrown up, oh yeah, ok, but I'm yeah. I guess you're right, though, does he like something dripping in your arm? Would surely that's gotta be great doing something get well. One interesting thing is back to placebos. There have been studies that have shown that if you dont tell patient. What they're supposed to do that they dont work is well yet even found there with drugs that they know for a fact. Work! Ria, if you dont tell them Work yeah: they they did a placebo base child with a painkiller and in killer, prove more effective impossible, and then they did another trial with the same painkiller didn't tell anybody what it was and it didn't work interesting and then converse this is the one that gives me the study where they had so crazy. They used an injection that they put in the patient's jaws and study

awful mean induce pain like that was the point they are trying to induce pain and somebody joy. Using harmless, but painful jaw injection dear, and they will inject sailing into the jaw to keep the patient self reported pain level. Steady throughout the study, they use another injection and gave them sailing, sport, painful jaw injection dear and they will inject sailing into the jaw to keep the patient self reported pain level stay throughout the study, and then they use another injection and gave them sailing but told them. This was a pain reliever in everybody's pain, across so done. You could just called placebo anyway. I think it's unnecessary while other cap is placebos fell back. Obviously and that in two thousand eight was, I guess, sort of invented are not invented, but coined in package

by a mother. I think I'll straightly named gin, booter she'd Austrian, I think so said in austrian last night, and I think there is such a thing, and so that's basically see those four kids its market at you can you can buy a bottle of OPEC help and its four when your kid is feeling good, but you keep, but you know your kids, not sick. That kind of thing right, and so you give the kid the pill and it makes them feel better, and some people have problems with this and say your teaching, your child. It you get relief from pills only right when there you know, don't necessarily need to be taking pills, overtime and proponent, say you know what it's it's thing is putting a bandage or kissing Bubu. It's like he said these are done little kids, I wire, never grow enough. Erika children's aspirin, the Orange aspirin, I'm pretty sure those are just sugar pills, either I had a whole bottle of unwanted. Can I wouldn't know about those? Are vitamins

it was children's aspirin, o o o Leary an Orange flavoured yeah total. Remember those yeah. I think those were probably a placebo. I remembered the taste I can see no sense that there are good his boyish suitable bottle of unwanted successful affected in eating it took no sugar pills I had, I think so. I well remember, I was all the thinking like a polish intervene, the whole bottle those because his medicine and watched it down with a sky- and I was right- I was fine afterward, while they do have legit baby aspirin, although they say starting out everything. So start you talk about doubt. There are plenty of criticisms of all this. And we'll talk about a mile after this New year's resolutions are very, very difficult to keep.

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we'll go to the post office again. so Chuck. I'm big, terminated, placebo effect. I can tell your big time in a placebo effect. There are people who are not less true there, there's plenty of scepticism, which again is one of the reasons why my hat off to tag catch check, because he has responded to the core. This is a means adjusted as methodology he's doing really good science in the investigation of the placebo effect. I like that guy still sceptic say there are a lot of things that you can use to explain away the placebo effect. For example, it's possible the person was actually hypochondriac yeah. They weren't actually sick. In the first place, yeah it's possible that some people get better with no treatment yeah

it's possible that some diseases do treat themselves they'll just get better over the course time want anything if you overly a placebo, a factor, a placebo, Anne and put their over the same course of time it's gonna, look like it was the policy both did it when really it is he'll itself yet, which is why they tricks covered studies where there is one group that has not given any medication whatsoever were exactly which makes sense. So I'm a born of the other criticisms, though, is that if a doctor is is saying in there are like had plenty of doctors who do this. Yet there there were studies that found that a two thousand seven study from the receives Chicago from forty. Five percent of two hundred doctors surveyed in Chicago area had prescribed placebos before yes,

point during their career in two thousand eight. They did a little more robust one, six hundred doctors all across the. U S and half of them said that they had prescribed placebos this is like this is still going on the things pretty widespread and the criticism as well. That means doctors are lying to their patients, their using deception to practice medicine in that on ethical, so AMA came out with its guidelines, that's kind of flies in the face of the policy. Affected. The idea there, if you give somebody a placebo and tell them it's a placebo, that it shouldn't work, which is not necessarily true, yeah, two thousand six they make him came out and said quote: physicians may use placebos for diagnosis or treatment only if a patient is informed and agreed to it. To me that means it's not a placebo. I mean I guess it is. But if you know it is I dont get it like. What's the point of a doktor coming in saying, gonna give you the show

pill right, but would you like a prescription for sugar pills uneasy? Yes, I would supposedly there are studies that show the placebo effect is still pastel works. Here is sometimes but the across the board. Pretty much. Everyone believes that if the placebo effect as a real thing, the cat out of the bag It is part of the imagination, India, and that you do kind of have to fool the person into thinking that it's a real thing. The expectation coupled with imagination provides the placebo effect in this article points out too, were not just saying these doctors are lying wires, apparently one one tech that a doctor can take has to say I have something that I think can help by donor exact

no what the deal is with it or how it works, but I'll give it to you. If you want to try it, and you know people are a lot of people are like sure, I'll. Try anything right. Exactly! That's not really deception, because if the doctors of prescribing a placebo here, she obviously does believe in the placebo effect. So here It does think it could work but doesn't know how or if it only really does work and thirty percent of the, population? Then you ve got a seventy percent chance of striking out anyway, with this course of treatment. So your back to where I started to begin with, yet again it's got that falls under the what's the point right agree. Now again, we should say that a lot of physicians who do prescribe placebos aren't just doing it to toil with their patients, because they think that their patient will suffer more.

About nature, or they just don't have anything that could be used to address the patient's problem like they can't find anything medically wrong with the patient and bid to saying that the patient second help. So here's a sugar pill near the other tat the doktor can take to Chuck is to say, hey new patient welcome my practice. Let me tell you about the cyber effect and, in the course of me, treating you sometime during your lifetime, I may find that a placebo will be the best thing to use. Are you ok with me doing that to you at some point, possibly basically like signing up for my own personal LE long term

study kind of as a doctor, but wouldn't you from that point on be like you gimme the perceived as a placebo, I know simplicity, I would know which way was up. My gonna have to feel that's the drone better worst side effects. None and the other tat doctors can take is to knock off early hit. The golf course they do their own alot on tv. That's it that's! The such an old bit, trope like yeah, cops in their down at that doctors engulf the angolans, pretty accurate. I mean in Kadesh, asked the doktor was doktor beeper using when you just got mad all the time. I now those judge males doktor beeper was he was just one of the guys are one of the four some ok. That I think he played. There was a buck. Henry was either doctor. No, I can t I can picture the guy. It's back Henry, the ethics or figure this out of

however, that yeah If you want to know more about the policy will affect and believe us, there is plenty more to know about it. You can type. Those two words in the search bar has two works: dot com. And since I said that sign for listen to me I'm under call this australian last name. This is he says, Dear Josh, Chicken, Jerry and anyone else. I should think- and I think we never mention other- will that support us, then we are to talk about an australian leslie, yet knows the job. Ok, it's called a callback gotcha. I just data. This listener mellow made me realize it. We don't think other folks alot besides Jerry, unlike Nolan Matt, but must do that now. Ok, like Rebecca Rebecca, is what your official title and even though it titles are produced web producer, Mary nanny. She handles or website and makes everything with great vigour,

and I shared, even though we do our own social media, Sheridan Social media for house of works, dance. She like throws the US along those, does and helps a satellite and Joe are buddy. Joe gear is evaluated out and that's kind of crack staff. I mean we're answering our only pinnacles inward doing a lot of our own stuff. It doesn't mean we don't have helped. You know we have time to help. Do you I just want to say thanks to that is very nice of each thanks, everyone I figured six years and seven years and we might want shout out some of our help so this from Alex and he said to think anyone else- you don't know about and he's from birth, Western Australia, which is nothing like Eastern Austria I'm a nineteen year old, aspiring electrician trapped in the depths of west, Austria mining downturn did lay offs in the mind, sector have been unable to find an apprenticeship. And I would have lost hope if it weren't for you guys. I was just after

years. It was just after New year's January six, twenty fourteen. When I came across the magical production called stuff, you should know, as At the time of this writing. It is maintained and I have finished the epic adventure of six hundred episodes plots as in a very short time. My friend yet is It's been an amazing journey and want to thank you for calling me through the hard days resume running in delivering a long days awaiting pre so you were my numbing but have since been filled with interesting insightful and around credible enjoyable content. My favorites gene patents, lobotomies Andy masterfully, dictated Halloween episodes. We like those two causes, so my fears of a Christmas. I think it's the best so cue the exists existential crisis after you guys forming such an integral part of my life over the past few months.

I'm going to act limit myself to just to a week, and we hear that a lot from people who mainline the show yeah, there's like air of withdrawal period yeah and I've done that with tv shows. You know I do for you, you may Lenin than you like. I needed. I would just like to sincerely say thank you to both of you and Jerry and anyone else for pulling me through these times. The future contains a stable job for myself more content for yourselves to pass on to the stuff. You should know army in an ever growing fan base that you can both whew with your dulcet tones and enlightening information. Yours faithfully, that is Alex Giddings from path our galaxy. Thank you very much luggage, maybe get a job, buddy yeah for sure fear. In person you looking for an electrician contact, Alex he shockingly good going to test the terrible ending on that line.

You wanna get in touch with us. You can try to satisfy escape. I guess I've been doing some facebook that comes lest he should know you can this an email to stuff podcast at House efforts that calm and as join us at home on the web, so you should know that Stuff, he should know, is production of Iheart radios how stuff works from on high my heart radio. I hurt radio broadcasts wherever you. Listen to your favorite shows The man we are partnering with our radio for our own podcast series. One fans interview the bank throughout this series will be funding fans indifferent towards eight markets. Verdant become hang backstage, an interview us will be giving you look behind the scenes like never before in answering questions that our fans have always wanted to know check out. One fan to interview the ban on the radio apple pie.

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