Wildfires consume an annual average of 5 million acres in the US. But what causes wildfires? How do they become so powerful? More importantly, how do we fight them? Join Josh and Chuck as they take you to the frontlines of the fight against wildfires.
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Good morning, everyone, its July twenty six, two thousand lemon word-
no it's modern times, but this dates back to July twenty sixty thousand and- and it is my select pick of the week how wildfires work this one support it. That's. Why pick this when everybody
Fires are still happening all over the place. Every year, Missy
after getting worse and worse because they are so at. This is a good podcast to educate yourself on wildfires and how to prevent them, how to fight them and how to get started in the first place so enjoy how wildfires work right now.
Welcome to study should know how stuff works doc.
Welcome to the pod cast, I'm Josh Clark there's Charles the reach of bright right over there, and this is stuff you should know whose Michel I told you I worked with him, I think, than a by catch right. Yeah, he's puffing up in a suit
He was super nice and hacking every time, I'm where, where Sudan Puffin stepped in a suitor, I'm poured into my suits port in liquid. That's great! So in absolutely not you by the way, the chuck! Yes, I have a couple of stories for you. I have a specific story for you, but you have this to write the don't you be this yesterday. Ok, so
not two thousand too. There is a guy who work for the Bureau of any in affairs and he was a fire fighter for them
He went on to the Arizona, Apache Reservation and he started a wildfire intentionally Susan arsonist. Yes, he said and arsenic for Fun
or because you crazy or what was. It, is curious, highly curious memory. There was a cure, a trade, those trait curiosity arise. Setting fires, he wanted work right, Leonard, Gregg Leonard Beggars, his name. He is
this fire and unbeknownst to him. Sometimes now you do here. There is a woman.
Who had run out of gas not too far away right an she, so that there is a news helicopter covering the fire that
Greg had just said she didn't know about either, but she didn't filling walking or she felt she couldn't walk. So she said a fire to try to get the attention of the news. Helicopter would come rescue her, so she did at the walk to go. Get gas, that's pretty! Amazingly awful, so I guess her
S. Name was a chair risky because the rodeo fire, which is what they called the fire that when a Gregg started, collided with it, should escape fire and it was a conflagration ultimately, four hundred and sixty seven,
thousand acres burned, including four hundred ninety one houses. There is the largest fire.
Arizona history in this is two thousand to so
I don't know what happened to the woman but Gregg was found guilty of arson, says the ten years
in order to pay twenty million dollars which, as an occasional firefighter,
bureau of any further. I would imagine he didn't have yeah that never happens. You'll, see that like there by word so and so this, and they just don't pay his dislike of a symbolic
I guess you'll metal you'll never make more than fifty percent in your wages again kind of thing gear by oil. Crazy is not just that this lady set this fire because she wanted to get the attention of a new chapter in its war that this guy said a fire,
because of a desire to get work as if I've put the fire out yet, but because they are not, the only people who have done stupid stuff
that's right. They, following a long gray and tradition of people who have set wildfires for all sorts of different,
in a lot of them to get work. Yeah. You have a list here and, of course, when we're we're gonna praise the firefighters now that we're Saint lilies firefighters start fires, but it does happen more than you think,
I do, I imagine, will polytheists more out later on the first checkers right, let's get to wildfires of how they work, what affects them? The fire triangle. We should probably soured the fire triangle because it relates to not just forest. Fires are wildfires, but all fires. I'll fire Josh requires three things: fuel, obviously to burn yeah air to get oxygen to the FARC, see on us that we all knows. We all know that makes the fire burn, hotter and and bigger, and then the heat source to bring the fuel to the ignition temperature to begin with right, and they called
the fire triangle and the goal of a wild fire fighter and are a guess, probably more so a wild firefighter is to remove one of those three components from the scene and that'll give him a better chance of extinguishing the fire yeah. If you marine temperature down or starve the fire of oxygen, some or get rid of the fuel right, the the
the all three those things have to exist and the reason why, like, if you look at what is a fuel wood as it pertains to fire, is just a solid store of hiding,
carbons that are released when the wood is heated to the flashpoint it to the first point and those hydrocarbons at the flash point bind with oxygen in the air and it can busts. Thanks to these spark extra heat, yeah flashpoint everything has a flash point. Apparently everything will burst into flames at some point like Fahrenheit, for fifty one is forced to be the flashpoint a book. Yes right, yes, which has recalled title woods. Flashpoint is five hundred and seven
book. Yes, right, yes, which has vehicle title woods. Flashpoint is five hundred and seventy seventy two degrees Fahrenheit. Yes, three hundred, if you're into Celsius, anything anything and that's when
of woodland burn every year in the United States, and I get a different said, there was one point, two million, but then I looked. I saw that that statue yeah look to the past decade
five point. Nine million five point: two nine point: three, nine point: eight eight point: six, eight, four, seven, three and seven. So that's about five years! So I trust that when an,
as did in two thousand nine, I'm sorry it was gonna. Two thousand six. There were ninety six thousand three hundred and eighty five hires wildfires in the. U s the lot of wildfires net, crazy and woods crazy! Is that forfeits? So those are started by human activity
you're a little more than four like? That's not like I mean, there's a whole thing called lightning season right, yeah that
when combined with the sum this type of whether called fire weather, which is very, very dry, maybe drought like conditions during,
warm summer months when it's very hot out in all it takes is like apparently like it. The train we'll causing a spark, never offer the rail
some tender and then bam you got of wildfire
but even all those don't account for more than a fifth of while first, the rest are like people throwing cigarettes out
looking for work, is firefighters or no running out there. I buyers when their camping. Yes, at the beginning of another couple, stats from FEMA, there are total. There are a hundred and seventy six thousand intentionally sat outdoor fire,
every year in the United States. In a lot of those, I think they're prescribe birds right now that
That's like people union acts of arson yeah, but it's only
you know a certain amount of those are. While I think sixty three percent are outdoor fires, vegetation fires, so the others are like a trash fires, rubbish fired, ha, video liars. Exactly all will make smoky the bare weep near true, so there's fire whether there's lightning season forfeits of fires are started by humans. More than forfeits. He said we know about the fire triangle right and so once combustion is started from whatever the sources. There's a lot of factors well known and surly. There's three large factors that combine to
I guess give us an idea of what's going to happen with this forest fire right now. Are these these if you'll characteristics road like how facile spread know its fuel, whether into poverty? Ok, I those are the big three and then each of those kind of has a few sub categories. Yes, but the but the fuel the amount in the type of fuel be the type of weather
it's going on and link. Is it fire weather? Is it not an interpreter
The lay of the land like if it's like, that's not good to harder. If you for a forest fire right and I'm gonna use forest fire,
while firing a change, but I didn't see anything that said that they're, not one and the same while they are today at least forest fires is kind of rules out the tongue. A little more for me, my thick tone LA said, wild fire and keep saying while flower to Jerry you it is it while flower wide fire. What's he wide fire, I go forest fire could be a wide fire. Mr
so fuel. You need a fuel, obviously to get the wildfire.
Learning in what they call the vehicle
fuel load is the amount and it's a measured amount of fuel available
unit area and usually tons per acre, so they
they can actually there good enough to guesstimate that violate the Bio mass of like all his dry grass, yet like they know, like me,
can be a bad one, because we ve got a you know, and I mean numbers but
but ever fewer load in this area of the Colorado National Forest and what's interesting, is as you would think, that the fuel load, if, if you do it in weight, has its tons per acre right that, depending on the type of fuel Liketh grass, if it lighter that it's going to burn more quickly because it has less water near right to cause. If that's a characteristic of the type of fuel is how how much moisture hasn't and density like add, twigs, avi seal burn faster for two reasons. One is because there's it's not as density.
Pact, because the which will give it more oxygen, the others less surface area and the second is its smaller dries out more quickly. Yes, not like drawing a tree or log, just gotta take a long time to drown right.
And the same goes for identity with, like say, tufts of pine straw right, it's very densely, packed yeah. It's going
retain moisture in the middle, which makes it harder to burn anytime. You ve ever set pines on fire INA, yet it it's smokes allied if you'd throw big mass on your fire right, but if it's can spread out its,
ignore rise more easily and let's more oxygen in between it, which is another need for fuel
in a small fuel material they call flashy fuels.
And we're like forefinger drink I and on a chemical
All they did. Tat varies on how long it takes ceasing to ignite as well beyond the fact that is just like more dancer, bigger or more spread out, but like when I go camping, I'd will dry out, can't firewood beside the fire,
and you can hear it says you can see it can see the moisture sizzling from the log and then he does into closer nettled boom flashpoint yeah, that's up.
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Oh another thing Josh, as the fire pushes forward its. What is going to be doing. Is there so much heat associate
with it and smoke. It's gonna dry out the stuff, the fuel in front of it. Yes, so by the time it gets their potentially I mean that
My welfare happens both I'm. It gets there. It's alright,
dry in ripe for the pickin answers. Gonna keep burning, keep Berne and there is nothing to stop it. Basically right it feeds itself. Something else it feeds is that was fuel right. Yet the second category of earth factor there really determines how a wildfires gonna go. Is
whether he had picked up, and you know when you think of whether you think I will reign sure,
If it's raining, then of course the wildfires gonna go out a point that a hot in here too, but I thought given point to a great he's, a monster yeah. He definitely he doubted desire now, and he did
because, yes, obviously, if his pouring down rain, is going to keep everything my story,
been raining for a while, yet humidity helps yeah big time, but the aspect of whether they are probably has more of an effect than any
is wind area, so you ve got wind outside of the fire, which is gonna
Sid along fitted in one direction or another wells very unpredictable. That's one of the things. The winds, especially the dry Sand Anna's in California, is already,
hot and dry wind. Yes, so it's might as well be fuel. You write Ferguson sort of Israel well at traditionally, but it doesn't nessus. It's not a surly fuelled by it brings more oxygen in the fuel to yeah exactly right, so it pushes fire along its in oxygen delivery system window.
And it doesn't it there's a guy who's interviewed in this article is New Secretary Clark at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research and he's created. This model called coupled fire atmosphere, dynamics
critical and basically ways doings figuring out house fire interacts with the surrounding atmosphere and vice versa separately. We feed off of each other, yet fire can create its own, whether system and how other pattern? Yes, it is seen it before they can really hot Farley's little tornadoes.
Come on it's a firewall right. Those can be enormous. It's basically like the heat from the fire, creates a vortex and the more
customarily horizontal right, but if something gets under it can stand upright and it began.
The fire tornado, they can throw behold logs. They. I can throw a burning tree like a mile, its
it's it's a monster and it can throw a mile into where their previously was no fire, and that's. Why filed forest fires or so hard to fight? One reason why they arc as all the sudden you're fighting on one front and you ve, seen him to leap from the tree tops
all of a sudden dude. It's on this side of the mountain now right. It's scary, stuff, entry, tub, specifically by the way, the two that the type of fire under itself. It that's the crown fires what it's called the track. There's a visa fire whirls right, the fire tornadoes they don't necessarily have to follow
that that the process of starting a horizontally in standing up and then moving like a tornado is another thing called a hare pin fireworks is, is the but the Ford Burst yeah. This is amazing. Basically, it's like the fire develops so much. I guess heat it vortex his dear. It's vertices do that it shoot forward like a flame thrower and apparently these things are they get up to likes. Sixty six feet wide right, yeah. They can shoot three hundred plus feet yet at a hunter.
Miles an hour. It is all of a sudden, like the fire, just shot you a hundred feet for it a hundred miles an hour and then in an instant all the sudden, your fires going in and if not a different direction and additional direction right, because tracking methinks predicting these things. It's were you figured out her Doktor Terry Clark has figured out that it's not just the atmospheric conditions, it's a fire creating its own stuff, its own win, yeah and just moving from both of these nets are living thing and they call it spotting if they, if it tosses embers,
to another spot they call that spotting and if it, if it starts a fire, obviously right then temperature also is another factor. If it's warm out hot, you know I've easily. That's an extra sixty hundred degrees that the attempt at the sun doesn't have the heat something up to a year. You never that's, why they burn mostly or most hot and while
during the day during the afternoon. California, like I d, get used to camping in California because in Georgia, Georgia's, like a reinforcement, psych there's, never any fire threat, no plus it so muggy,
yeah. It is so muggy. All time is no way you couldn't survive. If you want to came struck a match outside right now, but
wagon and is used to camping with a great big awesome camp fire. But once I headed west- and if I Colorado in Mexico in California, they have you know every state park in National Park, you go to a national forest, says, have signs, it say in a fire risk
hi, no fires at all, or you have to apply for a fire permit with the camphor Camp Rangers Brainerd Forest rain.
And I had to get used to either sneaking my fire, which is not right and risking fine
or not having one at all, which thinks wages co apply for a permanent. Well, sometimes there was
the virus was so high, you're, not suppose TAT one at all, and I would still have one and oppression be saying that, but am super super careful
I did when I was living in the van for a little while
I'm on the northern rim of the Grand Canyon and I start a fire, but I don't. I didn't see any sign
That said, no fire anything, but I wasn't. I could totally Mr Reilly no one's anything
yeah, and you know what I was completely irresponsible for doing that. Some go on record and say that it was not the right thing to do right, even though I was super careful cause, accidents happen and I could have easily been that jerk that, like didn't see the Amber get away that started Moors far. So it's true I wanna say I mean if you do the Ark from trains, we can start a forest fire yeah, then, yes, very easily a fire that you start a bright start of forest fire right. That was very good Chuck way to see. Oh well it and want to sound like I was bragging about it. Like oil, super careful souls, cool, there's lives not go. There's this guy on the air, adding take your brain yucca, genuine Malcolm in the middle. There is this who is as one scene where the mom was telling the dead he was. He was saying that she was giving him grief about
the stories that is telling his kids he's like their cautionary tales and showed a cautionary tale stern and with it, was so cool I enjoy that show for a long time ago. One, but like all, shows when it's about kids, when they got a little too old me now, all of a sudden his voice. This down we'll know he's ain't. He cast out like bright.
That time. How did you like? I'm out Malcolm himself, he's like I have got fifteen porsches and I'm very happy. I'm done well,
he went on to his big movie courier and have its fresh sorry. That means I wonder if he were grants to know he's
and have its sorry, the banking means. I wonder if he lifts Crampton, though he's he's all seen breaking bad, but this must be amazing. The lasting Josh is to poverty. Yet we talked about a steep slope. It's gonna spread faster usury
as he has a case study in Australia, where the fire actually burned down a sloped mountain which is pretty unusual. Yes, normally it burns up for a cup
a reasons. The ambient wind usually blows up hill, the steeper the slope the better because the fire
the smoking. A heap Now- and I read the worse while for the fire- is
instead of giving a steep mountain yet because the fire would be standing almost upright then, and the smoke in the he coming off, the fire is really.
Drawing out the fuel load ahead, so most of the time they burn.
For it up the mountain, then they reached the crass nor, like I should have thought this through, because now I have to go down and I can't yet which is good for fighting the fire, not good for the fire
They can, besides burning all the vegetation which
Can we really bad? It can lead to things like erosion in mudslides, layer on because you mess with that with the ground like that and is not stable like it once was yeah I mean like that. One of the roles that roots around
system plays is holding the ground in place. If and if you burn the tree and the root system out its soil and nice, heavy rain comes in and that very thing happened. Josh and ninety nine,
or in a storm. King mountaineer Glenn would Springs Colorado, two thousand acre forest burned and underbrush burned on the steep slopes and tumor
later they allowed a heavy rain and literally poured
of mud and rock onto a stretch of interstate seventy like engulfing cars, sweeping them into the Colorado River all because the fire months months ago- and we seem website
before member guatemala- I am murmur- lay down the mountain. There is still a path you could see the boy. The path for the larger is standing on this village, where they never on earth the people.
Those kids were running around here so said where we're standing was like six feet higher than it once was right here, six at least, though it is often so check if you want to put out a fire, while for some other beneficial that we should say that at times, ok burning, the underbrush of a forest can prevent a larger fire later on
so they do have like prescribed burns like you were talking about it chuck. I inadvertently started a book club by mentioning one thousand four hundred and ninety one again recently.
I love you will be writing insane, like thanks man, certainly annually what about fourteen twenty one? Yes, another, pluck that's a fake Booker,
it's the other so unworthy, guys like the Chinese made it to South America Mexico
as another. You read all about it and I pitied the guy. Ok, it's very. He has very shaky shaky evidence that fascinating stuff, but it will have been a punk has it on it
I was to it, but I read that today and also why have we done this year? We can tell you that I think it took a little while for me for the bitterness delicately. My mouth like after I wrote that, because it s getting tonnes oppressive,
really, but anyway, any anyone is red. Fourteen ninety one knows that North Mary,
It was basically a managed forests and water
ways it. It was managed pirated Columbus was through prescribed burns like it there. It is very beneficial. It burns way the underbrush, so you have less potential for accidental fires. Yes, I marry. We talked about,
sessions. Or can I like that and the rid of disease yet provides nutrients in the soil that right
plainly Lawson show after you, like you, know, hit the peace pipe. This kick back and watch a forest fire go online signal
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So, let's talk about, but these things out gestures,
They gave a couple of categories of the these elite. Firefighters, they're, called hot shots in smoke, jumpers the hot shot with so funny the names they give a year. This pre say that's pretty bad. A no monsieur
hot shot, so they work in twenty percent teams and they are trained there on the ground and they are trained to build mainly to build fire breaks right, and that is when they strip the mind of fuel ahead of the fire or they will burn it ahead of the fire yeah. So stop at their view. Zoom in God's must be crazy to Hell the dude, the main dude. I can remember his name. He
there, there's a brush fire coming like a prairie fire, Savannah Fire coming at the main characters and thereby to be engulfed in it.
And the main bushmen runs and grabs like a piece of grass or whatever, and set fire to the grass behind known that they are running into write, em burns it and then basically creates a circle, a backfire fire break and their outstanding standing in the circle where there's no more food
any longer. It's completely. In early genius, while it is in its also, you had to be
we note your doing. You know I had to put it in exact, great spot and other sometimes they'll do the fire break and the firewall.
Over that and then that's gonna make you feel like yeah there's nothing. We can do I well, then, a lotta cases I mean it's like I remember was a two years ago was:
maybe as three years ago when they had all those wildfires and
I remember thinking like what we can do
Equally, unlike began, you know, put a man on the moon, but we can't stop a fire and as that out of control, because it so huge and overwhelming
who did check think I didn't I leave that are actually criminals. The smoke jumpers, which are hot shouts, the jump out of aeroplanes right now and then
a couple hundred of them in the. U S, which I can imagine that really specialised job, and you have to be a
have more to do. That, though, be how long did you say,
but he didn't in firestorm. I think he was, as I mentioned earlier. I didn't see it. Not many people saw it actually but did copy the the description from I am D B. I thought it was just about like a fire fighter and like forest fires, but of course, because its Hollywood, they headed some plot to it. Yeah firefighter Jesse Graves has to save ornithologist, Jennifer and other people and afore
fire like I thought that was it, but now it was set up by the lawyer of a convicted killer, Earl Shea who escaped from prison with several of his inmates, posing as fire fighters,
to recover thirty seven million and stash loot hot. So they were acting
started. The farm purpose is sort of like the guys who posed as ambulance driver gotta get the duty to prison. That sounds also, actually I mean the plot
scripts and sounds pretty eyes on? You can tell you here like how long ninety ninety eight, how are you gonna, be awful but like
I'm sure the writer of that was like ok, that some on this idea he hears it's gonna be firestorm. Yes, during how long is like I'm sure that,
The writer Aoun Smithy was pretty cycle. That is from a check for a little while so shock. Oh, you can find a fire using an air core right. Oh yeah, the drop fire retardants on the fire. You seen of the news, footage the red stuff. Yes or they can drop tons of water and have you ever heard the urban legend? Oh yeah, but what is it so there? There is a forest fire somewhere was a California and they put it out in like a six months later, whatever some hikers
walking through this area and looks up a notices that there's a Scooby diver stuck in three hats: racket, rebreathed, IRAN. In the end, the mask on in the flippers in everything and dumb he's dead and the height
can't figure out what's going on in you know, leaves the forests and tell somebody about it and they start doing research. They figure out that previous scooped up by one of these planes that goes out to the ocean and, like France, up a bunch of water, comes in dumps it on the totally natural.
While via the desire to get one behind him, I hate it when you meet Burst urban legend so because it burst of many bubbles.
Like there's people right now going to me. Oh it's so beneficial! Yes, I know it's things right now, but in about forty five seconds, you're gonna feel like a smarter person right.
That's true. We mention the fire retardants that is not just read stuff. It is
a chemical retardant containing phosphate fertilizers and cools down the fire slows down psych its main ingredients as water, though so it's like super super water. As far as I know you know, is thinking about long. When I was reading about smoke jumpers the that human cannonball thing that DARPA came up with would be perfectly that use be like true, true
try to shoot a bunch of smoke jumpers into the like over the fire in the where you I'm you, don't let it parachutes or somethin sure I can imagine a smoke jumpers job like landing in the middle of that stuff. It's crazy stuff, amazing, and we also want to give a shadow to always great movie stirring Richard Dreyfus. No always
oh, I thought you said we always want to give us always remember: yellow skin movies, younger men, hauling, honour, richer drivers on the net handsome dude
oh, I don't know each other's right to ratify the handsome guidance and it was a remake over, I think, gaining Joe or something I'm
I also believe Audrey Hepburn Final film was it issues darling and she was. She was pretty till the variant that it
That is it ok. If you I know more about forest fires, you should go into the beloved venerable website that we work for how stuff works that come in typing.
Wildfires we have. It is one word yes and if you type it in,
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-01.