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who knew the pod cast them. Josh Clark and there's Charles the reach of Brian those Jerry in this is stuff. You know Jerry crippling backer seeds has stopped working in this staring at us right now, that's right, which is not at all funny. Now. It's not it's like weaken it around about this stuff, but nothing about it. It's funny! No! It's really like, but we just try to me light of things that are uncomfortable? That's what we do here. We did when I'm combers once member right now it was hysterical. The latter is like Leslie Meals in Brazil presently coming out from platoon naked going, your member is laughing right. What's naked gun two and a half the other day I am to hold up, holds up and then some near, especially once you ve, met the director personally. How right try man we met him a thousand years ago, maybe it maybe five,

seven years ago was a while so check. We a good hundred and fifty pages on stalking here to what you say like no, it's not funny. Absolutely it's not funny, and it's really tough to put yourself in the situation of a person whose being stalked yeah, but there are there's a lot of quotes from people who, compared to what a form of abuse it might not be physical, although way for infrequently can turn into something physical or violent. Yet his lot blurred lines here, listen buddy if it never gets physical at all, it is a form of abuse, is a form of psychological abuse, refracted torment, where and you the victim feel like your life been infected. It affects every part of your life. In your constantly, we feel like you're, constantly being watched in in as one victims put it like, not in any sort of flattering way yeah. I had the

The minimal form of stocking happened to me in college and I cannot imagine what, like a serious stalking situation might feel like considering how that made me feel really yeah. Well, they not you know. Very mental trust me, I'm not saying like. I know how it man like you know, a Gertrude girl that I was dating in college right in date, anymore can get enough Chuck. I mean if you times like bang on my bedroom window in the middle than I kind of thing while might come out here and talk to me right. That kind of thing Well, I mean that it is that is, stockings were ever happens repeatedly, if, especially, if she had like, related over time, yet a similarly escalate and was only couple a time. I think, then that would probably qualifies what's called harassment, yeah harassment but

say this. I moved to New Jersey just a few months after that cause. That was the end of college and that's what I did and I didn't go because of that, but it was definitely like well there also the benefit of moving to New Jersey and one week into being in New Jersey? We lived out in the woods. I had a dream that a bear I'm out of the woods. Pounded on my windows, unlike pounded, a door until it fell down in the bare came in the soil is right. Companies like well That means a burglar alarm at all. Yet the Blair the bear her name is not Blair by the way, as an authority in the bow definitely like, resemble turn somewhere. It were. Her name was in Blair, but she looked exactly like Blair from facts of life, a fish I wouldn't broken up with their shoes.

Now to be fair. Also, this was, I was young and immature and probably was in the best breaker upper not to say I deserved it, but why I really think that that's a really gets a good point. You made like seventeen good, Okay, so number one men get stuck to cure, it happened and, depending on where you live, it can happen pretty close to in equal frequencies, women being so although I dont think any words equalising almost across the board, if not totally across the board. Women are stopped More frequently the men are right, but men can be stopped pretty much evenly by women and other men correct. Not just in the realm of like ex lovers, whether you're heroic straight, but also like you might be stopped and if you're a woman, you might be stopped by another woman to someone who's jealous, you're, angry resentful of him or an arrival or liking single single eye. Female right exists.

They somebody who's dismember become obsessed with the idea tat. There was one thing: men can be stopped in its very important, but but also when you said like that, you were the best breaker upper and there's a lot of them. There's a lot of perceptions like misconceptions of misperceptions, about what stocking is The victims of stocking do or don't deserve what they did or didn't do wrong and from everything it's kind of emerging over study of this. For the last few decades, if you're, stalking victim, you basically did nothing wrong. Everybody assumed you did something wrong, like you didn't break up with them properly regulated, sending out and make the emir ignores or yeah, maybe flirted or yours, you, nice or whatever,

or maybe you're, making a big deal out of all this. When really it's not the guy just likes you or some day may be here to seeking attention. Yeah yeah, maybe you got it in your head from watching Sally Jesse, RAF Ayala. We're not saying these things are true by the well. This is like a lot at a misconception yet that people who are victims of stocking run into even from law enforcement likely its changed dramatically, the other laws and law enforcement, or taking far more silly than they did before, but it's definitely still not automatically like oh you're, being sought great. Let me here's how I help you well and especially, I think of a certain age group, like your grandparents made. Think it's romantic. Theirs is great, Hampton yeah yeah. I remember him. He really better. Okay, so tempting was. The thing here is like the our grandparents generation were not it was like my green dead said I you know

three hundred and eighty days in a row, I went to your grandmother's work and I asked her to marry me and finally, on date I know he said yes, it's funny like yeah I mean to stocking, is and we'll go out and tell you straight up. It's it's a who termed it's only been around for a few decades, but it's all behaviour, it's an old behaviour of course. Yes, it's just were finally waking up to the inadequate right people right now, yet thanks granddad hope. So less what kind of the history of the understanding of stocking. It was actually not until the late eighties that the world really started to Colonel wake up to this whole thing after a couple: a high profile killings- Yes celebrity. Obviously, if you know, if you want to get something, sadly in the news, if you wanna get something in the news, having a celebrity, undergo that or be a victim to. That is the best way right exactly and they did happen a futile well Has there been a lot of movies over the years

egg, a lot in Deniro, is in a lot of them there here here that various victim, an taxi driver while in the fan he was, he was us. Is the stalker and there it was Wesley, Snipes, yeah, baseball player. He was a fan I was thinking. Was he the baseball player, but that was bang the drums slowly low, Yemenis baseball, is a baseball player in that year played catcher Thurman months into the Yankees who died young, but yeah taxi drivers. Stalker, you gave your stalker. What's the other with a man, not a very good Mary, but I reminded you were good ever reading, he hung out with knife salesmen to understand his character, better, fail attraction, of course, of course, rush single white female one hour photos. You see that Robin Williams. All about it was it I sort of family obsessed like they have the perfect family. I wanna be that husband

So what do you do? Well, I'm not going to ruin it was he like scary, Robin Williams in it yeah. The photo processor like a photo booth guy right. And so he would look a willingness in the family and super unnerving in that yet always portrayed the same way, the king of Comedy classic. These are two sphere, my favorite Deniro, and there he was when he was Where does not augur? Well, I'm saying for linking likes these spy I thought about that was one. I want to shut out from a few years ago called the gift that was really good, Jason Bateman Agency that wounded good, then I saw that everything goes well. I thought your term of the one with the Billy Bob Thornton directly with keep by judges

psychic, you know now that was good too there was. He was just a month ago directed better visited dairy other samurai me now has positive. Who did he write? It then not an. He did something for well. It's interesting, though, to look at I like so many of them- and there are a lot of em considering that stock, Has it been around that long whilst, as I like, there's also comedies too there's something about Mary stocking three EU area say anything standing outside with the new model. That's romantic! Stop right there I'm saying or agreeable wonder what this it's interesting, though. The obsession with entertainment about stocking, like people these movies right and in dozens of we news, creepy and weird to stop before even called it stocking now is. Is I mean, based on this, this body of this year, and I think you will not actually a lot of these are post like. Nineteen, eighty nine, but now

all of them, but not all of them. You write the grabs to read this zone points out Peter Lawford from the rat pack was? He talked about it in his book. Without there was a name for it, though that shows how new it is, because this is a ninety ninety and he said there crazies, who become so obsessed with celebrity their fantasies or lived as though there are reality, they can walk your streets. Follow you have you telephone use. Any letters gently harass you they can threaten. You discuss obscene acts, they're playing to refer when your body can do almost anything they wish, but as well? as they do not physically hurt you. The police have limited power an elaborate rules to follow yeah, because a third heads, confounding factors in ninety four years was that you know you ve got like First amendment protection, you can say weird things and you can be in public places now, but after the death of well, first, the actually the

first taste of stocking in real life that that America, at least had was with an actress named Teresa cell. Who is enraging bore with Deniro Yeah PET played the Apaches, wife and arm. She was very publicly stabbed in front of her apartment, like think ten times very violently like a knife bent. Even it was really horrific. Fortunately, she survived and she actually became of victims advocate for stalkers for the rest of her life, but I was like a kind of a big whoa. Whoa word. What was that, like? The guy who's, the guy was if you had become obsessed with her yet he mentally ill and we'll talk a lot about mental illness throughout by this, the show, but He eventually was extradited, the UK on another murder charge, and they, him not guilty agus whatever they call reasons of insanity as different wording over there, but he was committed and died in a hospital in two thousand for

but she went on don't you know, I think she made a tv movie about it. Yes, it was scary, stuff, yes, but like a Schaefer was the one seven years, that really hit the news, the my sister SAM right, that that was That means these are all equally horrifying and sad, but this she was start three years by this man who again and obsessed fan yeah. Who, who did the same thing to other famous women like she was the only one, but he is she's the one who he killed and Marcia Clark actually tried that case. Little known factory Her the emerald- I guess right, yeah yeah he's, he's still unresolved actually, and he was Chanct in prison like ten years ago really eleven times, while This reality only survived ass, he still in jail, so they they. Actually, the guy who start Rebecca Schaefer took a lot of his cue.

From the playbook as a guy who started Teresa I don t use things like gum, something called pretext. Which is a really pretty common way- that stalkers will get information about their victims per meaning there. Somebody there now and then get it get info from unsuspectingly. Mainly members or whatever hiring a private detective father used to be a lot easier, TAT way You should go to the envy and be like Heyward is, but this person live right Are you might tell you up until nineteen eighty four? Wasn't your info she wasn't federally protected edges, unity. And then there is actually a website one of the early websites, and I think the nineties. I helped you saw people easily I cannot remember the name of the site, but they would basically socially. Engineer a chance meeting with whoever you wanted, and they would give you all this information on them and teach you how to strike up a conversation

in and talk about all the stuff that you knew. There already knew they liked, and it was a website that was dedicated, helping stocking, and almost like a dating of meaning social media, and then Letterman also really shine a light on this. With his stalker who was a woman who used to break into his house pretty frequently yeah. That was very sad case and we'll get into where she fits in the modern definitions. But she's it's like they were schizophrenia, and he was he was. He often didn't press charges and he was charity like cool about it. He joked about it here and there the Shoah thank tee ass. He made his top ten list, Scylla yeah, just to try and make light of it. I guess, but she went on the stock, an astronaut as well. The story must gravy and they both expressed just sort of general, condolence and sadness when she took her own life near, like, I think, Letterman, New, and you know she would

they would wake up with her in her property. She stole his car one time like series stuff as will learn later. She falls into a category that generally is not physically dangerous threat to her victim, but still like his just unnerving. So all Celebrities being start kind of shy, know why I'm starting in general, although not necessarily the most the correct light initially, but they definitely bright. It does to everyone's attention, in that And about it under the jurisdiction of the law, the law got much more involved after that and dumb You're breaking them will get into that. You want a yeah, ok, we'll be right. Jack

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thirty day. Audible trial today in your first audio book, is on us to get started. Just visit, audible, dot, com, Slash S, why s k or text S why S k too far hundred five hundred. I just so America's headway, Letterman's. Being stopped Rebecca shapers killed three, this all Dinah went through this. Let's do something about this finally yeah and stuff to get good statistics, because you know it depends on what state you're in what the definition of stocking is there not and this is one of the big problems is the actual crimes committed like now stocking is a crime but before that it was like not necessarily crime, like you, said to be way,

for someone in a parking lot right, it's creepy but allows broken, or if laws are broken their little, Demeter's, usually like trespassing year, so it was always a sort of law. No grey area until you know, like you, said, the high profile incidents happened right. And that's when the deejay Biagi, video doubled, that's when the J, to get serious they created, a legal definition of gauging intercourse of conduct directed at a specific person there as a reasonable person to fear for his or her safety area or the safety of others, or suffer substantial emotion, distress and that day The mission is really important because it says cause a reasonable person to fear, and while that's open to interpret arbitration. It's not a it doesn't say,

like there has to be a literal, vocalize threat to to count right. You know like they don't have to like I'm gonna get you in in. You know where you for, encode right like you, can just feel that threat, if you're a reasonable person and that then that counts, thank God, because that's got really opens opens it up. You know right and it doesn't even have to be. The threat doesn't even have to be physical threat either could be like I'm going to make up law. Is about you on the internet or I'm going to go. Tell your parents all the other like stuff, we right like we did drugs like there's all sorts of different ways. Threatened somebody. I, like a guard violence, I'm going to trample your flower bed exactly there's a like ways you can threaten intimidate somebody in all of these things. Each of these acts is considered harassment. I was looking up to try to figure out what is the disease

between harassment. In stocking- and it's really tough to find an obvious distinction, but from what I can get harassment are the individual acts that people do when their stalking in stocking as a pattern harassment alive, frequently escalates over time, It also obviously blurs lines with domestic violence like it is here, and I think he can even say it they form of domestic violence definitely depending on unless higher yet another person at all right and then it doesn't count yeah, there's two categories of stocking we'll get into my second by domestic violence is definitely one of the guys cradles. That stocking is born from

He had one of the really sad things about it as there's a lot of times it it just. There is no possible good result like oftentime to start a stalker might stop but then start back up like too often the end result is like some death or a physical attack. It can be ordered, there's just no closure resolution right like even if the stalkers stops. That does an aim that the victim is I'll get? You have my life back? I'd worry about that guy anymore. Like that, the the trust this parity. All of those things they most of us just take for granted on a daily basis have been lost in there, not just immediately regained, because it's like you said with stalkers the behaviour can this be discontinued, and then it can back up again out of the blue, and so never know. When they're going nude pop a buyer, it probably

which you out even more when they stopped communicating cause. What are they doing right? What are they up to you and even if they get even if your stalker gets thrown in prison or gets hit by a bus like There can be irreparable psychological damage done to you. And ever be able to trust man or woman again in and have a hard time finding love relationship that you can trust, and this happens oh more to women in its not. I think these statistics, you can cottages flush down the John yeah, because so many of us, so much of it, goes on yes, it's a big pens. Much of it is stuff that women have just dealt with since at the beginning of time, like the guy who's, little two hands your little to creepy, Earl, too forward, it doesn't take on a mere asked me for a date. Crampons showed up every day. You know it's just

Mr, I think things are starting to change, but this far stats go it's hard to even take the seriously sometimes yeah than before. These incidences in the early nineties. It was hardly even get cops sometimes to invite the gate or like either they didn't have power, they didn't take. It seriously nineteen eighty four, the violence against women ACT, really broadened. Well, I training advocacy counselling, but really like law enforcement, giving them or powers to investigate and arrest was a big deal. Joe Biden, was actually one of them. The champions in big. Orders of travelling that violence against women in the so part of our national came from the shut down. Is that that law was allowed to expire in the stocking awareness month, which is January you everything about that yeah

it has been signed immediately like after, like that was one of the first things that happen. One day they re up that act as soon as a government went back to work. What you mean it is a big deal it there is. I mean it's a larger umbrella act, but it does include all sorts of funding for stalking support and resources in his will see if you're being stock, there's a lot of places for you to turn, but those places need to get federal. Because they're, usually pretty small nonprofits that can't for themselves yeah two thousand eighteen, you wanna talk about another feel good act, the pause act which had a mean others. It wasn't just about this but under that umbrella act it included threats to your pets, because it's a big when people a lot of times. Part of the pattern of stocking is unique. When you find your animal dead, fatal attraction. Bunny got boiled

yet another way of protecting the pets, but grants in funding for shelters to allow you to bring your pet because sets some people. Rightfully won't leave their pets behind you, don't even know threatened dress, I mean that's, that's a decision of the will you like. I can't go to that that home that can protect me because they won't take my dog right and it centres with them with people who are being stopped homeless, shelter I have the same problems to those very few homeless, shelters that have accommodations reports as well for sure So one of the other one of the other big laws came in ninety ninety six. There Clayton signed in which basically made stalking a federal crime. Yeah it extended protection like gum, restraining

it is basically they enjoyed nation wide protection like no matter where you were. If you had a restraining order, it was good across the United States. If you went to stalk somebody across state lines, it was now a federal crime and the F b I was on nuclear. If you use the mail to stalk somebody to sending light sure it was now a federal crime. So it became a big deal and we're talking like seriously nineteen. He. Ninety Rebecca Schaefer was kind of when it really started with by ninety. Four California had the first law. Ninety six, the TAT a law- and I believe, within a couple years after that, every Ninety six, the feds had a law and I believe California, her law, that same year and ninety ninety, in by ninety ninety four every state in America had anti stalking law. It happened like that fast, yet he ninety the LAPD actually started. The threat management unit, which was a big deal,

because now you have an actual unit of dedicated officers, they would study behaviour in trying determine risk, and things like that, whereas before it was just like you like we'll get to it, you will and will send a couple of our heavy hitter cops overdid to tell the leave you alone, send over Russell Crow will have our heavy hitter cops overdid to tell the leave you alone so am. I advocate for vendettas in like extra judicial think, like beating down by said it's a great characters, it was pretty great in that movie when he would the stick up for the abuse, women and go beat down those jerks there's a good character. I agree so the chuck we can. We can have kindly defined stocking here, their bullets hyperbolic. What some of the behaviors of that stalkers have like there are. There are some set things that just about any stalker will engage in. That is basically a pattern

can behaviour which is really surprising, because when we talk about soccer psychology a little bit see there's a lot different people in a lot of different personality, types that engage in socking yeah, but they all kind of tend to do the same stuff and one of the first things that they'll do is just show up where you are yet showing up now. Obviously, calling in text like texting, the big one and social media harassment and stuff like that. But I mean that false guess under cyberstalking it does so, Sir, restocking kind of deserves its owner episode near by it. So it is. Own thing where you might just be targeted right by someone you ve, never met before in just found you on the internet there using the internet x, ray of light stock. You in harass you maybe even extort you now- that Cyprus Aki, but also use

email or you know, location, tracking or spyware to stalk under the traditional definition. That's also technically cyberstalking. It's like two things yeah. It's scary, though, with all those personal things that people have online now it is certainly not like the old days yet people can see so much about your life, even if you think you ve protected yourself you in that way, you will do a whole episode, cyberstalking, okay, so their showing up There is some nine consensual communication you gonna hit on emails texts, writers. It can be an apparently a lot of stuff. Yours will communicate ways that they think is totally obvious to their victim with their has no idea what they're saying like some eggs. People's. I saw in real life or like fingernail clippings, a stack of tat this monthly magazines, a rat or a dead rat wrapped in cell afforded that Second magazines had no idea what that meant. It was like it

it was like a message. No one knows what it meant. Talks about a stalker is the only person that made sense to catch the stalkers felt like they were communicate. It is there that, on Y, a stack of magazines yet left outside of their house gotcha gotcha, Obviously you don't even have to like. Like a view there can be a co worker, You see every day in the office and they can stock you at work. Even though there also supposed to be in the same offices. You write like that. The line is very fine. They can someone can start by your desk too much in too many compliments, and that overlaps with harassment to but like. If you go to your boss, In my case. I want to be in a different part of the building. Can disguise really give me the creeps right? Then? He saw showing up over there every day like that, stalking right, absolute there's. Also,

threatening family members. Friends, anybody that the person cares about pets making threats. Explicit or otherwise, and all of these combined. They can be separate, they can be be repeating the same one. Over and over again they can be a random assortment, there's also very frequently like trespassing. Taken into your house breaking in your car, just basically getting into your stuff and then sometimes making it you can't tell how they got in there, but you No, they were there are. I read one account of a woman who is being stopped and, like she went locked her car and there is a rose on the seat, passenger seat and she's like how did this even get in here. She had no idea how the guy got in there by a he got in there. So, just just knowing that this person is watching, you could could show up wherever you are and can get to. You is

All these things that combine that make stalking so insidious year in its unlike the effect, goes beyond just psychological harm of which that obviously, the worst part of but like financially, you can. You can have missed work and loss ages in you might The move like people have picked up in an moved Maria had great law, seems jobs changed upset it albinos, salary lost like it, has like a real financial impact. Yeah- and you were saying like tell technique Gee enables people the stock so so much more easily. Now that's a big one like if you firstly, a few already. We, if you had a relationship with your stalker previously right, and they had access to your computer. You phone most stocking advocate groups say if you can

for to get a new computer, get a new fund as those are compromised and that that's too expensive for a lot of people. So there's some tricks and stuff. You can deal with her work with if you can't replace it, which will get to its hard to research. This, without feeling a sense of unease for sure you now entered the injustice of it like like cancer, you just were nothing but but passingly friendly to a stranger and all of a sudden there doing all of this to you in disrupting your life like this and robbing you of your security, and you have no idea what they're going to do next, yet it's about as unfair as it gets here, an ethical criteria, economic and come back and talk about the different types. But you know one of the type specifically is like this: romantic guy or you know the casual acquaintance, the bank teller, or or you're the the bank customer the bank teller is the victim library at these short little

communications that someone who has mental illness, maybe prone to this. You get a too nice of a have a great day smile. I know all of a sudden, I'm going to say and that since them down the road scary man, can you wanna like stop being friendly people know, or should we have? I think that the only way to protect it, our work and take a break in we're gonna talk more specifically about the different types of stalkers Ray This hey everybody. I wanna talk to you about your website that doesn't look good and this hard to program because airspace does it better yeah they do squares. Is this amazing magical tool that you can just basically good people

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so shut member California is like the first state to really take. The seriously here will allay was the first city to take it seriously because it first people thought of my gut celebrities are in trouble. Another we ve done more research, we know like actually celebrities are the least stalked group and there actually, the probably the safest of all the stopped groups initially allay, really went, ha ha on studying, stalking and that's where we got some of our earliest data and understanding of the stocking mentality. They created the threat management unit with them some forensic psychiatrists in security guys and they they came up with. Basically some early stalker profiles and one of the first they figured out. Is you can roughly

categorize stalkers in the three different pigeon holes. Basically aright the first one, Romania, yes right, witches If he does sound that word out, you probably have a pretty good idea what that means. And that is As someone who feels like those ones if you like they're in love, there was a little with them. And those are the ones who who feel like therein but also that the other person loves them right, Letterman's stalker, was an erotic maniac, a person with a right, but she we also was somewhat of schizophrenia, right yeah they are all these are come morbid. I guess there's a lot of overlap with mental illness, but from what I've seen depending on the type stocking. You are engaged in a win win in actual dying,

possible mental illness comes into play. The stocking kind of takes a back seat to that diagnosis, mental illness. It's like it's! It's a by product of voters, symptom of the mental illness rather than the then stocking be remain part, you don't mean yeah like if she didn't have schizophrenia. She probably wouldn't events, looking Letterman exactly. But it's it's characterized by a deep profile. Delusion that that the Stockard and these- every victim who has no idea? The stalker exist at least the first are are basically bound souls that they have their sole mates yeah merely sexual, very rarely settle it, sometimes a saving, a surly romantic, but it is so hyper romantic it. It transcends romance it's this complete and utter, delusional obsession. That's Romania, then is the one that I mentioned earlier, on, which I think very interests only has an inverse proportion of danger. So the

or distant or unattainable. The relationship like this woman and David Letterman, or really any any, this liberty cases the less likely they aren't. You actually injure the victim in the less likely there are two ever even meet them face to face right. It's usually like an Letterman's case. You know, I don't think he ever met her face to face. No in an incident. No, but I mean like shit, I'm sure she would have liked to have met him face to face by like Herc his in her. This is very much an outlier yet other because of the media, because its celebrities, we think, like that's very common, that is an x dreamily rare first of all in IRAN, Romania's stocking situation with the celebrity one, where the person actually tries to physically get in touch with the the Victor Medway RARE so a Romania's one and its also the that's this, the smallest group, from what I understand right, but the most probably press.

Yeah a movie making yet moviemaking like Deniro gotta cornered. Love obsessional, yeah, that's another and that is one that I was talking about with, like could be a fleeting acquaintance could be a co work. Yet as you like two types, yeah like it's either someone like you work with every day more. It could be the bank teller right or again you could be the bank. I that the health care worker is very frequently the term of love, love, obsessional and shocking, because the arm like their experience of being

in the hospital or whatever and having somebody some stranger, take care of you at internet. Did it they're healing here so they're very frequently it's hard of that, but it can be something like a grocer clerk or bank teller. Something like that. Anybody just this, the most fleeting casual acquaintanceship can turn into a full blown stock, and in that case the person who is doing the stocking is aware that, in the other citizen in love with them yet right, but I've seen basically to IRAN coms in believes there there if they diligently, pursue this person and show up at their work and send a Molly's unwanted guys that that the The person will eventually their heart will melt They see how wonderful they are here and down. They will be together forever. The problem is, first of all its obnoxious. Knowing full well that also a real, like narcissistic personality disorder totally, but it can also once once you reach people have a breaking point

You become obsessed with somebody and finally becomes clear to you that they're not gonna reciprocate. You already feel like you're entitled to their attention to their love and now they're they're, withholding it from you, so that my turning to rage, which is extremely dangerous and stocking situation, and that's almost every movie the way it goes down yet when their one with like Marcie Marker, daddy near fear, mark you yeah, fear fear with Reese Witherspoon Marcie Marker Donnie Mark you know at the marks. Did you know Reese Witherspoon listen to serve, you should know, tat, know that, I don't know I don't know, I read it somewhere, yeah iris, I can remember she listened in the car. She said in some magazine well: well, we think your great yes come on movie crush then come on into the world. You can worker in their somehow. I think her son was so. She said to her son makes like music or whatever he should make leg jingles for submission.

They are totally play the Fisher, so the other interesting thing I thought about the love obsessional is that it says oftentimes a fluent in well educated and they are high strung professionals. Right, you have no personal life, except for this obsession right, basically, Patrick Bateman, sure it has been a relationship but who Just like this is this. This article is that that was kind of old, but there are basically saying like they were to tell when it said they're, usually like the next door type like Olivia, Newton, John, not like Joan Colonies right and I was like wet year. I wrote a victim's handbook. That was clearly by a victim who like wrote a book on what to do. If you being start out in his from, I think, ninety ninety nine and she had it ice on what to do with like they were blowing up your pager the hearing that day, that information is not a joke, Collins type, but

but they they made a really good point in its still going on today that the distinction between work and social life is so blurred, because everybody work so much that it right yeah me too, You spend all your time with the people at work, sir, if you are already as they put high strung neurotic narcissists types right. You may feel entitled to this person's affection or attention and that that so that becomes the coworkers stalking situation love obsessional. Yet in the movie version, that's the malicious work late. Order- some Chinese in the office- and then they had this like kind of funny exchange candles and that's an act one and then access to as all the hey. This again, out of hand and then act, three is she rejects, it rejects them, and then it's gets violent and angry. I would think she'd reject him in act too.

And then act. Three is all the oh god, and then the resolution yeah, I think the end of the first. The first plot point that the end of act- one is probably the rejection. You're right, ok and then that would set up the to action. The building of the detention in the next three year, but something always kicks off act three light I guess in cape fear, it was, I think, the kick opt out three matters, and then getting out of town and going to cape fear gotcha. That would be my guess. It's so funny movies. You can almost check your watch next time you watch a movie and everything happens and thirty minute increments. Almost anybody in the last one, I think of the three that we are talking about is as this one simple obsessional, and this is this the worst. I mean they're, all bad, but most typically violent. This is like the someone who you generally balance, two men relationship at some point right and you don't we

be with him anymore and they harass you in stock, you and seems like almost always. It ends violence while another surly, true by its at the highest risk of all of the types like if there's some you do comes into your bank every day. The crush on you he's far less likely to become violent then, but that's not a former intimate. Is it no letter That's it every category, the former intimate is more likely to Alyosha, contrary violence, but that doesn't mean that every time it's going to write and violence that that granted, though one of the first tips, I seen fur stalking, like advocacy groups like their their lists of stuff, you should be doing. One of the first ones is take yourself seriously. Yes Trust, your gut your instincts very frequently family and friends. Well

this kind of blow off their early signs. If you feel insecure nervous about it, go with that. Yet that is that you should take this seriously because it can turn into something on dangerous for and you should treat it that way and take it seriously. Yeah cause I'll, say this: if let's say you may quote, and not you I will say one accord and quote overreacts. Fine, that's ok, sure overreact. Do it as if this person is not a stalker, it is like the well. I'm really sorry, things obviously got out of hand in you'll know here for me again. Yes, the Lay person that would really get super raging about that is probably a stalker. Those truth in out Girul thumbs air on the side of caution, because In a restraining order is

one thing I wrote in here: they are worthless, they're, not worthless, it their worthless in that it doesn't stop anyone from doing anything, but I think the main so a restraining order is so you officially have legal precedent right that this person has done something nephew, documenting I did see I've already guardian already about a woman who was stopped by like an ex boyfriend from high school or college or something and he stopped her for nine years. And I think he broke fifty six years. Meaning orders over that time right. So it's like death threats. Www line we got two years in prison at the end of this nine years at or the returning eighty six restraining, I'm not sure exactly what he finally did that landed, imprisoned right, but the idea that you can break fifty six restraining orders and still

go to prison or jail here is. Is it's gotta be extremely discouraging for the victims of stocking? Yet here stood the saddest stat. This whole podcast to me is that seventy six per of women who were murdered by an intimate partner were also stalked by that partner and half of them really are had been reported. As stalkers They they half of the murdered women were at work order that they are being stopped before their murdered. The up there so you take it seriously and cops and that's with cops taking it seriously. Supposedly, right still further percent yeah, yeah yeah I so there is a severe, like. The M was called the significant, not significant other stalker, that simple finally, as simple obsessional one where, like you, VE, had a relationship with his person and they didn't basically take them. Got very well. You belong to them very frequently

thoroughly. Gibe with that can be, it can also cannot just come out of a work. What you would call a bad boy gibe with that it can be. It can also candid just come out of a what what you would call a bad breakup rent, but it still like the same rough. The same, but I think if the abuser was already a domestic issue certain answer. I, which of violence, are much greater than the group. That is the greatest at the greatest risk of violent. Here. Are domestic abusers turn stalkers, Cheese and others are they always look at the whole, the husband, the boyfriend. First, I'm surprised, thirty percent there seemed low. Even you percent there seemed low, even always look at mean. That's the husband. Ninety two stats. First, I'm surprised thirty there seemed low even Yonah near I mean that's in eighteen. Ninety two stared. So its super old, but I bet it when that we'll house Melina Young adults, do different industrial, quick, its

You know this is not just an american issue. There are countries around the world that have stocking stocking laws. Anti smoking was, I say it much easier to list ones that don't have it, then the ones that do because, just in the last like couple decades, countries have really started to take this seriously which is heartening, because it says oh, ok, good. We value women, the women in our society, and we want this to them to feel protected. There's some day just absolutely dont like Cyprus, Greece, Namibia, Spain, they dont anti stalking laws for the most part. Most countries do very. Currently they follow. I got a high profile, murder at the hands of a stalker, Japan So did you take it very seriously, since I think like two thousand no two thousand one great Britain's like really well aware of its stocking problem, and

have a really high incidence of men being sought to areas. And then I read an article that France, Sweden and Luxembourg have the highest rates of stocking. And I was like that seems a little weird and then the article pointed out, while these are there also probably countries where women feel empowered to report writing, whereas these other countries that have very like artificially low rates of stocking. Here you are- probably countries that are a little more macho and where women feel like the cops are gonna. Just tell him you're, like feel flattered for the attention re re, which happens actually, sadly still so art like they'd, like you said, like the data and the stats on stalking her a really hard to come by its its basically a universal thing well and it's hard to come by to because Everyone can agree on what behaviors even qualifies

talking. There's this one interesting thing that had put in here about incompetence: did you see that yeah yeah not incompetence with this? stalker, and this is someone who is so awkward and unaware of social queues and no and this is someone who is so awkward and unaware of social Epps feel like stocking right. They may have some sort of cognitive disability or something I picture or I'll. Just me they may have some sort of cognitive disability or something like that. You're or I'll just made not pick up on Social Europe, press every day right, I dont. Do it right then the guys I look, I'm just being nice share or it might be like you know where he may be a budget stalker. Sure, or it might be, like you know, It may be a legit stalker show. But I think in that case, wouldn't be an incompetent. He would be a stalker while right, but that's what I'm saying

guy who's, an incompetent is just like, oh and then he never speaks to again. But then so that's that's used to be another hold other class of stalker there's the incompetent. There's the around a maniac there's a love, obsessional and others even like sub types to those larger types like there's the scorned lover, there's the the guy who it is experiencing rage because he's not getting his affection, reciprocated. There's always different little sub types, and all of them to one degree or another, have some sort of mental illness associated with them. Not necessarily like diagnosis, mental illness and that's what makes stalking so weird is that a lot of stalkers are otherwise utterly seen the light of the young to be sure, or narcissism or anything like that. But you can diagnosis and yes,

You may be more, will study them enough in the future that will be like out or when you put this this degree narcissism with this degree of sociopath together and makes it a little bit of awe of an overly Critical mother, you ve got a stalker situation right, but by socially speaking, especially coworker love, obsessional rules and the simple obsessional once those very frequently seem to be or who have become obsessed with somebody grant and have become so obsessed with that person. They ve lost their their marbles. Basically in that, in that respect, every other, respecting kind and keep their life together right until the obsession leads another path where their full time stocking they like will lose their jobs or wherever something. So we should probably give a few tips.

Before we go in case, you are being stopped first and foremost that I've seen is number one. Take it seriously. But number two. If you believe you beings doctor, you feel like you're being stuck like go, find local stalking, advocacy They have all over the place and they are ex It's what you need to do things like if you are being stopped by a former intimate You should assume that your computer in your phone or being spot or spying on you, you want to change the passwords to your accounts. Don't use your computer, don't use your phone go use a computer at a church your library and change your past codes and then dont log in on your phone or computer and taken get a new one You should from get go. You should log all activity, yes, just so you can win. Go to the cops they're not like. Oh well, this guy, just came by your house once so, I close to see where this heads you can hand over piece of paper. That says it is seventeen two

happened in the past four days right, so you just have a good log elective you also an engaging with public safety planning. Where you, you, don't just think about what the soccer, just you have to think about what you're stalkers going to do and there really kind of gets heart of how again unfair. This is like, as in all of a sudden you're obsessed with trying to figure out yet something that's gonna happen in the future or may not happen in the future as well they bruin your life right, exactly your constantly thinking about them and where they're gonna show up or whatever, but you want to tell people at your school at work at at at home, like here, is a picture of this person if they should call the police do not give out personal information to anybody because again they might be pre texting, there's all sorts of stuff that you you wouldn't normally think of to wear it. You're being start. Go, find a group that that helps. People like this, they probably say

our social media. Now yet, let's, I think, that's another one, but also, I think it has, in effect where, like Not only do you get off social media, you like stop going out because you're afraid they're gonna show up yet up so you likes, you lose com, tat with friends. You lose your life here so that the a group that I found, I thought was pretty girl, called spark S. P, R c. Stocking prevention awareness in resource center. They have a lot of good like starter tips, but they'll. Tell you just like I did go find local group to help you like come up with a safety plan to be safe, is the one thing that won't happen there is. They won't do regard your fears and not take you seriously and sometimes, especially in those early, That's exactly what you need is some support here and someone to say like you're, not crazy. This might actually be happening to you and then to any kind of a hopeful note as distasteful as it sounds there.

Save a growing awareness that stalkers need that therein of weird way, victims too, and that they need to be treated that they need to be pulled out of their this life that they ve built for themselves and basically the course of some very intense therapy, rehabilitate, b b back to reality here and to help in and out to them. What they're doing and just how off their view. Whose of this other person are because very frequently, stalkers are found to be giving their view tons of power that the victim does, even though they have yet and dumb and when they reminded like those person, is in doing this year, no they're not getting what you're, saying or anything like that can there's it's starting to look like stocking can be treated and that that's part and parcel with saving a victim is treating the stalker too The azure, then the victim can have resolution at some point without the stalker

the die or spend the rest of their life imprisonment, bright, Vienna. So that said, that's kind of growing thing is treating stalkers as well yeah. I could see it being something that could be rehabilitated, you'd, hope and then hopefully to stop momentum. Another two years later. Here they be that's all I heard it. I swear I'm feeling better, usually don't shop here. This is just a disco, in which case the victim would what then back slowly out of the grocery store. Sure, yes, and never shop there again so that's it for stalking, if you're being stalked to hang in there and get in touch with us. Let us know how it's going to say to that is time for listener mail, hey guys the showed you started. Listening to my surprise, one of the first episodes I listen to was about biggest misconception, and my industry red count the softness of bedding. This is from a short stuff, the sovereign

The betting comes down the quality of the material, that's being used, not necessarily how many threads, which I think what we said that right. It's just restating everything lungs. Boycott and only makes up three percent of the global cotton production. Yet it's best kept the best option. Forbidding the longer threads provide a smooth surface for sleepers to enjoy saw some more durable, short safely. Cotton threads. This is what he said in other more popular, cheaper option, a rougher and scratch here, because a short threads, are tied together throughout the week, the betting, nor to get the softest best performing sheet along staple cotton, preferably one that is responsibly sources. Necessary anywhere is wine to say what you guys already set of experts for me, where you are congratulations on the billion downloads, guys nicely girl ears do another billion. I tell you It's your email, red and that's from Ed thanks, Ed, were glad you joined us. Welcome to the fair

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