In the late 1980s, the United States experienced a "Satanic Panic," leading parents to fear for the safety of their children. But were there any real examples of Satanic ritual abuse? Find out this and more in today's episode.
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years ago yet so I want to go ahead and say that I would like to do. One on Satanism. Yeah fishing, religion, misunderstood may include the churches an appeal mercy. The typical organs is here It is this. This brought back a lotta memories because we lived through the satanic panic for sure, and I remember it very distinctly. I can imagine a young bad this I was afraid my right eye, imagine I was very scared. I remembered like growing up thinking in some of the big kids are sacrificing things in the woods yet higher, which is I'm There was this proud of your normal everyday thing like walking round thinking that was happening, but it turns out retrospect. It was all almost entirely made up yet
there was also an imaginary neighbourhood or town had this with those of memorial, DR those Satan House, where its Rosalie Devil worshippers. Oh yes, the area that you have one in your down area. Yet it's a finding me to think about that. Now there were probably this nice normal people from some old assurance, some also elderly folksy discontinue the house, much right, they murdered aim by four year, given notice you never see anyone there.
Or ass, carefully old, candid dilapidated a run down the other all near, and we want a shoe a big see away here. Parents, this is got some pretty grisly stuff in it. You probably don't you kids listening to this, even those who made up yeah, but there are some detail in some of this. It's I found myself even going. Do we have to say that near so are yet? This is rated are maybe even acts for content, I'm Thinkin chuck. We should put together the times. America lost its mind: sweet yeah, this decisive identity disorder. Here the programming coldly programmes, you're Salem, Witchcraft, Mccarthyism, Mccarthyism, that's right near organ! Do it when I was a likely put some of these weeds together, they exist here mental sweets, right, ok, thanks man, for, let me offer
but I don't know if you guys are picked up on it or not, but I keep saying like they never really existed was actually true. It wasn't real. This whole idea. There were talking about from the roughly the mid eighties here till about the mid nineties about a ten year period. America as a whole was gripped by again this that there is no other way to put it. Satanic panic, yells, idea that their coats of Satan worshippers who were very well spread more than you would think who were abducting killing raping molesting. Our children mutilate animals and who had been doing it for very long time in America was just now wake Up to this reality, yeah, it's your teachers, it's the cops either the mayor of your town there's a battle between good and evil,
very much going on right now, yeah and somehow some way and people are still studying this America. But onto this idea, and ran with it like it was for real the idea that there were seat, murderous child molesting, satanic cults operating almost openly in the United States, was a very deep in widespread believe not just among religious people, although they were at the forefront of this, but among people who were writing academic papers and crew being television shows in the news. It was people in the court's work subscribe to this. It was this. It was a. It was, what's wrong,
the moral panic yeah and when I was reading this, even though I lived through it, I kept thinking how in the world did this happen in the nineteen eighties nineteen eighties, not the sixteen forties right, but the thirteen hundreds sure and it turns out there's a lot of reasons. Why and we gotta go back in time a little bit to touch on the early reasons. Gotta go back in time, so this is something that should be our way back machine themes that was just too during loud worth continuing with the back of the future efforts what was said earlier, member Huey Louis when he audition sir, I'm sorry this is thank you. And by the way this is not just the United States. Apparently it was in the UK, Australia, Canada, South Africa. South Africa's still has a cult crimes division. With it. So I'm Robber Lammert, this article of stuff, the blow your mind
and we're gonna be drawing from other articles as well, which will named along the way. I guess I won from slate that was good boom. This name drop it. I've got one for you all are heated up later that so the groundwork was laid for this in ancient history and Robert does a good job in pointing out that there is long, especially when it comes to Christian Theo, long been a divide between us and them? Heaven and Hell two sides evil, good and evil light and dark. I was going to repeat that too, the union S super Christian now, actually that beginning Yang worked together right sure we should do on union by a lot of people such as Tricia's shock, there's human subscribed to in group our group mentality. Yet absolutely like I took an anthropology class once in the professor is like trying to go a day without using words like us
We hear they seem possible, virtually impossible politics, that's just the way our minds go in group, our group and our group is safe and good. Their group is potentially threatening impossibly bad. We don't know absolutely throughout history this is come up again and again and again and innocent people have been persecuted, for doing nothing at all a good example the jewish people, I'm Christians accuse Jews, and in seventy five of using blood from kidnapped christian children, and rituals, which is pretty ironic because the Romans just a few hundred years before had accused the Christians. Bathing and dining and feasting on babies, blood us in them once again, babies, blood. Did you go to thing for vivifying in our group.
Oh yeah, and that usually babies blood in a lot of these cases, yeah possess a guess: the hardest bled to get hold of here too expensive black in the most grisly witchcraft everyone, the course we did. We do on the ceiling which trousers Mccarthy's we did want I believe you will say we have and if we haven't, we will like member on a dyke them being high on air got here with something like that are so fifteenth century had witchcraft prosecutions all over Europe, innocent women being killed, drowned burned, you name it and of course none of this was through. In all cases, when it comes to art, they laid the groundwork and the nineteenth century, the french romantic artist, loved painting stuff about Satan in witchcraft. And by the nineteen twenties.
In the west we had pretty firm established a groundwork for believing in things like demons. And Satan and a fiery hell and people who who worship this Satan yeah and this the weird thing is Chuck, as this is still to this day. There's this idea that at some point back and integrity at least there were devil worshippers who like killed four Satan, and all this born out of whole cloth fabricated from people who are doing the religious persecution, long away and the people who are being tortured to confess into this kind of stuff. It was all just fabricated, but the fact that it was all the fact that it was sensational here, and the fact that there have been repeated so many times it gain traction to become this thing to gain this idea that it is historical fact at some point. Yes, people just take. It is fair.
But it's not true. No, it's not true. Dinner have never been satanic, satanic, difficult and the United States, or anywhere else right. These people have never existed now, It is not to say that people have been killed in the name of Satan or anything like that, but there's never been any kind of satanic death cult, in the history of the world. As far as we can ever tell it's all made up right and we want to go further by saying that these people who have killed minimise Satan are actually an example of life imitating art there inspired by the thick the fictitious myth, because their gullible and buy into it as much as the people who think that this stuff is out there to like richer Ramirez sure and he was driven by Satan or something there's a girl in the eighties and Georgia who supposedly killed a friend and then performed to rituals like this stuff?
happened, yet it happened as a result of the assyrian movie is a positive feedback. Yes, absolutely Now, in the twentieth century and the roots of satanic panic can be found or throughout the entertainment industry, yeah books, there was one in nineteen, twenty seven by Herbert Gorman called the place called Dag on, which was very influential and radical at the time complete fiction, of course, but that doesn't doesn't stop it from establishing firmer routes that this could be a thing right, that's something they can. It keeps coming up again and again, a movie or work of Yeah well established, establish some story line and then somebody will have read it and told the friend about it or something like that, and then it becomes a game.
Telephone along the way somebody stop saying I read in this work of fiction right- or I saw in this movie- this happened. Instead, it becomes this happened. Yet you, a friend of mine sister year, which will get to urban legend, is one theory, of course. Yet and I know he did about gas on that reduce nineteen. Sixty eight, a couple of movies came out. One horror, film called the devil, rides out with the great grist freely because he was every weird movie, he was a great man. He was the torment and FED has right now, who's that then, really was sure, was: oh, no, that's Somebody you right just really was the guy from the wicker man yeah. I mean dozens and does right form play Dracula. Alot rosemary baby also came out that year, which was way more mainstream big big hit cream. Yeah really good, still very creepy movie with
me a thorough and costs of Edison Charles Grognon weirdly. I insist that weird, but at its associated with comedy yeah, but he always plays a straight man, so you go back and forth yet he could straddle worlds here. So those movies were huge as far as planning any. No, of course, like the old man and the exorcist, and it was just. It was just a big time for talking about Satan and movies yeah very popular. What's interesting as you can trace, back to an initially that book. The place called DEC on which inspired it felucca started at all. Equally music, of course, which, if we ever do one on the pier mercy or get to that and back masking more heavily but Satan imagery in everything from like iron maiden to King Diamond and who has just presented. Remember they get home the court for back masking the hen, people and then you have some real life thing
real life, a called like Alister Crowley, and Levey, who really didn't help quell Letty panic, panic fierce if anything, they help set the stage dressing up like with candles and in being naked with like cloaks and Pinta grams right. Is he gonna make people feel any better? Now, but that's what they're doing and if you will like a civil duenna Satanism. If you look at Satanism, it's not let's sacrifice. Holes and throw blood on each other. It's more like hey we're on this earth for a short time, let's party and just live for ourselves you're about hedonism in being atheist right, then, some weird dark, Occult Alister Crowley was darker and more cold. Sure in a time of very definitely dressed his brain Satanism up in that kind of like dark, theatrical sure, the really ironic thing about both of those guys are called stuff. Is there again it was life imitating art or life, imitating fiction,
their ideas of the black massacre, the witches saboteur wearing pennant grams. All that stuff came out of those which persecutions from before they were fabricated from whole clots. These guys were tapping in you. What was already part of the popular culture in the in the way of what people thought of Satanism in satanic rituals average is basically Hang it up to the is the Euro is what it was very much so yeah, but to people who were scared to death of the idea that Satan is real. Worshippers are here on earth and are ready to kill you. Those guys scared. Those people just proved that this is very real. See. Look at those two Anton Levey Alister Crowley prove that there is a technical, exactly and who knows. What's going on behind that big huge iron wooden door. I will just take a break here and now we're gonna come back and talk a little bit about
the nineteen seventies stranger danger panic, which factored in time? New year's resolutions are very, very difficult to keep more exercise, save more money? What have on this? We have a resolution that you can really work with stop wasting time going to the post office that right, you stamps dot com instead because they bring all the services of the. U S: postal service, right to your computer, with your small business sitting, voices or package's, or an online seller shipping out products stamps that can handle it all with ease yank it. This was simply com. You get five cents off every first class stamp in up to forty percent of priority mail. This right? U S postage twenty
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Time? America was really waking up to the two just how widespread child abuse was yet the nineteen seventy suited that it took. That long really was because apparently it took it just a couple of doctors to really, stand up and be like I'm not looking the other way again on these unexplained breaks to a child's arm. Yeah, it's the, but it's the parents, you're you're, breaking your kids arms. Views that wrong gray, stop doing that and, as a result, the government stood up and said, Ok, we need some laws here, one of the things that they active were mandatory reporting laws. Your doctor and you noticed signs of child abuse. Here you have to word it and, as a result, ninety seventy four child abuse cases went from. Sixty thousand nationwide. Yes to the year. Two thousand, were three million rewarded right and it was because of public education law, more visibility
and then mandatory reporting laws, but it had the cumulative effect of saying America. Your children are being there in danger and you need to do something about it and his child protection movement out of it. Yet I also get the sense that pre the late seventies, I think the media, was unsavory report on this gonna see, I think. That's that's that families, business yeah and just period is like normal to hear about this stuff. It's awful right and somehow I got transferred to probably to drive ratings like this is sensational, was sure yeah, Tom? America's scared I have to do is poking product and you will give people the watcher tv show that right and it's done very frequently sad in despicable, but it happens a lot still. Thus, there is another aspect to this to check with the with the child protection idea. This is also a time the seventies, especially is when it when women
started to go back to work after they had kids before they they may work, and then they would have kids in that was it further professional career they ve. They home their moms for the rest of the time you re ever worked at all, originally right now, In the seventies and eighties, women were having kids going back to work, result there are having to leave their kids in more and more day care workers care, and so this idea that there, children are being abused or potentially views really resonated with families where their Catherine. Karen weren't, like constantly under their supervision all the time how, do you know the people watching you kids? How much do you trust that there are they satanist and this this fear took root? Because of that collective anxiety at the time, with more and more families putting their kids and daycare right or they're. Just latchkey
the little older near who I remember during the Atlanta child murders. Do you know where your children, arts, to know of that where your children are here, it was just a time of of in a good way, people more aware of than ever of potential dangers for their children yeah, so it like it, was all bad, but when it goes into panic and our will to see what happened went from zero to one twenty and yes to a couple of seconds. Basically, so what happened was done? the Atlantic, panic largely it is based around court cases where largely daycare, centers and people who cared for children were now being accused of some of the raises things you could ever imagine in your entire life and, like you said, the reasons this was fuelled was very much because parents can relate to it. I mean she would go and talk about a couple of these cases yeah
You know the whole thing, sounds crazy and weird and everything, but just knock you ass. I guess until you come across the court cases, yes, and then you, like, oh real people, lost decades of their lives because it s because gullible people were in position of power and lock them up. I was talking about the killers. What was the action whether this is one in Texas, yeah, Austin and Austin Texas, France's Indian Keller, ran Dickerson. Out of their home and were accused of the following things, among others, drowning in dismembering babies in front of other children, a killing, animals, dogs and cats in front of children and baby, Yours, babies, hackers, that's right, taking the kids to Mexico to be abuse sexually by mexican Army soldiers and then brought back in time for their parents to pick them up. The trail
dressing is pumpkins is my favorite and shooting children in arms and legs Europe children into a pool with sharks that eight babies putting blow. Their Kool aid, forcing children to carry the bones of of bodies that they had dug up sure and that this is just a few and I'm getting must have this Roma. This great slate article, the real victims, of satanic ritual abuse as our aid by Linda Rodriguez, Mc Robbie, so the colors work here stuff, inheres We what happens Robert points out a lot of times. It starts with one perhaps credible case of child abuse, yeah, sexual or otherwise right, and then that snowballs they tell the parents. Maybe this is going on, so they tell the pair hey that your child may being maybe abuse the parent start. Look.
They start talking to other parents in that same daycare sinner, they start looking. They start asking their kid. And it all snowballs into these little preschoolers basically make stuff and not only that it's like yeah yeah I've heard about that. The next abuse the like this sum satanist, like molesting children and murdering I'm in the parents like white or that places they made already heard on on tv, which will talk about the media's ruinous their end, like you said it snowballs, so balls and all of a sudden once concern parents get involved. And start talking to one another panicked concern parent. Exactly then, people can end up falsely accused of some pretty her into stuff people, stop thinking critically and dumb
got problems. If you're on the receiving end of a finger being pointed out, you will you act as if your parent near Chagas to this day care center and other parent and the cops come say: hey this parents, kid was sexually abused. What parents gonna be like I'm sure it's fine. Now you find quite quick complaining if I'm not going to check out my kids. Take us all tablet so well with the with with the make Martin, which happened in southern California and and actually ended up helping turn the tide against this, but the MIC Martin case and then the Keller case in Texas. Both of those were bolstered actually by bad medical testimony. Yeah like inexperience, doctors who didn't know what they were looking at, who, in their defence a little bit was the at it I'm. No one knew no. One was looking at little kids like three Earls Vaginas describing what normal once looked like right. So
You didn't know what to look for, but thought you were looking for evidence of sexual abuse write anything could conceivably look like evidence of a conventional tromp, or something like that and in the case of the killers in particular the little girl who is basically, I guess these are zero of this. Was was examined and found that her vision in a showed some evidence of trauma. On the doktor after gaining decades of experience, saw that no It was totally normal. What I saw here and is not the that it's like. I basically gave false testimony unwittingly, I'm sorry yeah and there was a huge thing, because these people were locked. Way because of medical testimony and again the case against the Mc Martens was also bolstered by bad medical.
Vice as well or bad medical testimony. Yet so, with the Keller case, the patient or not patient victims, Euro Christine Chevaliers shabbier. I don't know how you she was three years old. I didn't go to daycare Sinner Center, much in a nineteen. Anyone told her mom that Dan Keller had spanked her. That's what started this whole thing: so all of a sudden, a mom says, and they here's a key factor. The mom goes to her therapist. It's there Donna David Campbell due to the little girl, was seen as she'd been acting out. She's, like a central figure in this whole thing his whole snafu through that door. Yeah. So they go to her and say: listen something's going on here. Can you talk to her about it and all of a sudden Campbell Donna, David Campbell starts coaxing out. All these really bizarre, our nations about. What's going on there,
made us take off our clothes and had a parrot Pakistan, the PPP one the earliest accusation that that form the foundation of this whole case. The basis of the snowball yeah, so this is this- is this is what begins the snowball. This is when the mom goes to the other parents in Europe's Goin on here. What look at what's happened my daughter in law. Really happening here is something called It was part of the recovered therapy, recovered memory therapy movement, which is very big at the time in psychology,
with the idea that we have these repress memories, that of abuse. Many people do that they have no idea of, and it's up to the therapies to bring these out of us yeah. That's almost like a separate intertwine thread to this whole say tanning. Panic thing this attack ritual abuses, the recovered memory, therapy movement and sows the say, canning, panicking, actually trace its roots directly to a book from nineteen. Seventy two by guy named MIKE worn key, He was a Christian send up comedian. He also was totally full of it. He wrote a book called the Satan seller where he talk about his life as a former satanic, COLT priest, I believe and drug dealer, and he was eventually exposed far too late by the christian magazine. Cornerstone is almost entirely fraudulent and made up in just a liar. Yes, but his book, just so like wildfire through the the Christian fundamentalist Community and basically really establish the groundwork for the idea that they were safe
It calls operating in the United States right for for the thread, the recovered memory movement that form part of the satanic panic. You can trace that back to a book from nineteen. Eighty called. I think Michel remembers yeah. Nineteen. Eighty in this was by the way I was the out on the cover of a christian magazine in the nineteen eighty cornish domain, I thought it was, but it wasn't guideposts that that's it that's a big time Maxie man knows a cover boil and what were you doing on the cover? How was I was it a church camp one summer and there was dislike. It was like a four panel cover of just kids havin fun at church campaign. I was one the May. Eighty two men. I wish I could track that thing. Maybe great you. If anyone out there has the issue of chalk on the cover of guy pose magazine from. Do you remember the year roughly?
It would have been probably between nineteen, eighty, five and nineteen eighty, seven, ok We need that. I want to propose that the cover that would be awesome, so this book machine members it was. It was just like you being a bomb in the midst of this, the everybody so most transitioning from who can we stop pointing out in peace? shooting. Yet now that we decided the courts are okay and working stop deprogramming them here. Who read? What can we do next, and this book comes in the midst of the nineteen eighty and it's a book about a woman named Michel and her therapists Lawrence pastor. Yet he wrote it and he he was. He helped her uncover repress memories of being richly satanic. Lee abused retain a critically about
in the nineteen fifties and Vancouver yeah, he actually ended up marrying her and he coined the term ritual abuse allies directly at his feet and this thing a lot attraction. I mean this lady was on Oprah. She did the talk show circuit for years. The guy was used, as is of expert witness in court cases like haste. He founded a whole movement in psychology. It was lady but yeah, and the whole idea- is its based on this premise. There. If you undergo a traumatic Your mind is going to try to repress that memory yeah, but it's gonna have all sorts of horrible affecting Can it be an alcoholic and a gigantic? There may be a child abusers, and you dont know why? But it's because you are abused as child, probably by scientists and you covered and you need to go to therapy to have it unlocked the trade and a lot of people went to therapy. Had these memories unlocked, which only prove pastors point even further right, the problem is, is
if, when they were reexamined, they were pseudo memories through the power suggestion, and overzealous some therapists alot of people for memories of stuff. It never happened. Yet the problem is recovered. Memory therapy there's little to no scientific evidence that it's a thing at all, right that people unconsciously repress these memories. The royal college of Psychiatrist in Britain they- have officially band its members from using it altogether. The british psychological society says you can use it but You can't draw any premature conclusions. You have to have evidence not just well. This is what they said and therapy right. So that's a replacement. They came to the surface right in the air may uncertain API and the United States. Their official stance was issued nineteen ensuring making ninety eight there's can and this among memory researches inclinations that most people who are sexually abused, children,
remember, all or part of what happened to them. Although they may, fully understand or disclose it. So a competent psychotherapists is likely to acknowledge that current knowledge does not allow the definite conclusion without corroborating evidence. So again, the general consensus is that people don't completely unconsciously forget everything that happened right, it's virtually impossible. Yet and so that this idea, though, with during therapy while you're coaxing these memories out your actually forming pseudo therapy, is backed up by a lot of follow up research. Pseudo memory, pseudo memory saw here is backed up by researchers, a researcher, a famous memory researcher named Elizabeth Loftus. She found that ninety percent of participants of the study came to believe that they had done something they hadn't when confronted with witnesses who,
but they had done it. That's the real danger- and all this sure is that these memories become just as valid as real memories ended damage because they aren't. We and there's actually really case that came out of all this. The sun was crazy, Paul Ingram, pulling room was a sheriffs deputy and he was accused by his young daughter of satanic richly abusing her that he was a member of a satanic cult and that she had been raped by this cult sixty eight hundred time, they had been involved in the murder of twenty five babies, at least an Pauling Grim said I don't remember any of this, but I owe you must be right, so I am going to confess use opera or to any yeah. He was a fundamentalist, dumb Christian, so he was very much I believe that there is a very, very real Satan roaming the earth and, if his dog he's telling him that he did this white. What worries
she have the why so he asked he bought into it in and took the rap for this, even though it never happened, no one ever showed that any of the stuff happened. Yet you eat service, full presence in twenty years. Twenty years and maybe didn't even do it anything yeah. But here ah said at one another. Maybe I did yeah Diana Thinking Folly bought into retorted, a weird reversal. In that case it is to be taken of the brain, maybe sir, I, another break here and talk about the media and in some other theories and in cases insane Bennett Hey I'm Andy! If you don't know me, it's probably because I'm not famous but I did start immense grooming company called Harry's. The idea for Harry's came out of a frustrate
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Wherefore enjoy all right if you were alive I've done the nineteen eighties and early Ninetys, which I was Then you remember Oprah her, although but William Sally Jesse Rafale you name it. Every single talk, show Donoghue, yeah, doing lots and lots of shows on satanic difficult if it's two p m on Wednesday afternoon Movement and you want to figure out how to get America to turn their dear to your station. You had a choice of different chose to watch, probably total o governing say to be on the same day right in Everybody did Satanist for, although was the king of this, he actually had a two hour, prime time special in nineteen. Eighty eight called exposing Satan's underground and it is on Youtube in it
about ten parts. I watched one of them where he had Ozzy on analyses, before I see his eyes. He looks like a prick, golden girls, Dorothy, is the way he's dressed in done up its awesome, but he's like made by the honourable member is the better. He doesn't know what to make of this, but I would like us to sit there will get back to you worry, but there's a classic line in this right. Her elder goes there talking about a murder. There was carried out by this boy and dumb. Her other says to this copy goes detective, your comp NY the theologians. But let me ask you: was this boy possessed dead SIRI. Every cop was like I he had just love. Is I think that the state of mind but yeah, and in that sense, yes, I think he was, her other, doesn't give it is looking for out of the guy, so he goes to an actual theologian appreciate.
You know you're here be charged with investigating these cases for the catholic church. Do you think that this is a case of possessions like absolutely in her ass, a cat s, tail I was looking for, but that's the level of journalism that people were tuning into, unlike NBC, eight o clock for two hours in like the highest rated were tv documentary ever and a third or half of America's like what idiot believes this is the matter, retaining thing. I've ever seen. The other half is scared to death and thinks that all of this is totally real. Yeah. You know it's easy laugh about now, but shame on all of them were her. Although came out and said I want to apologize bit of journalism. That was really bad, I'm sorry for it, but I mean that's how it is name was stuff like that, while he was caught up in oh panic. Everyone was doing it yeah
book. A ninety. Ninety, a children's picture book called don't make me, go back, Mommy, Colin, a child's book about satanic Ritual appeal, stare to read to your children or if you are a therapist to use and therapy yeah right in a while they also had in many the court cases little little and ironically correct rag. Does that they would use in court like you now show me where you were touched and things like that right, which I am sure that has valid use, is well in. You know like six of these cases for sure, but you are like lately proving that you have to arm. You have to use that you I would imagine you your training in how to do that correctly without inadvertently or adversely, leading the child on into creating some, of pseudo memory. What should be extensive? I would guess in doing so. The media
definitely complicit in all this really. Saw that there's a lot of ratings to be had in just fanning the flames of the satanic panic, and I think a lot of people bought to it as well, and then so too were things like the the field of psychiatry. Psychology much complicit in this. By allowing repress memory, therapeutic really spread as much as it did without any kind real verified research into it was real or not yet and to defend them a little bit. Robert also make points there, probably well, meaning probably thinking they were doing this great work helping these girls sure but like with no scientific basis, whatsoever. It right in our lacking lot of critical thinking to gear and they dresses pumpkins and shot the kids in the arms and legs where the bullet wounds here. How exactly did they get the kids to Mexico and then back to in the average day care day secret tunnels. You know a secret tunnel
I was in an explanation. There is a lot There wasn't enough critical thinking, so you can definitely take the media. Psychology psychiatry and a lot of law enforcement investigators to task for this, but really the rain. Lot of hucksters and fraudsters. A lot of money as satanic experts have the tire both like legal legal representative, some excellent written expert witnesses, authors I'm going on shows like Herodotus Alley. Jesse Raphia and those people are really should bear the brunt of this because they're just why yeah lying lying lying, their faces off and in scaring people. Today and making a lot of money out of it, so easy
It was widespread. There was a red book magazine survey, nineteen, eighty four- and this is at the end of the whole thing yet true that found that seventy percent of Americans believed in say ten, a ritual. Abuse in a ninety. Ninety three: this is the really scary. One survey by the American BAR Association, a sinner children and the law found that twenty six percent a quarter more, quarter? Prosecutors said they at least one case involving ritual satanic ritual abuse during that time, twenty five percent, yet forty six percent. So within that time too, there is a very famous case in ninety ninety three in West Memphis, Arkansas, West Memphis, three who were very famously exonerated thanks to crack documentary film making on each vetoes, half is may affect HP oh, really lead the vanguard against this whole satanic panic yeah. They
the ninety ninety five documentary, I think there was a buyer on the Martin trial, those in a document or think it was like dramatize early and really started to change the tide of how Economics Intellectual and in the media itself, saw satanic ritual these sorry to expose it, as this is not real yet, and this is after them Martin trial had been the longest and most expensive trial in the history of the United States, the three fifty in sixteen million dollars spent four with zero, can convictions, because it didn't happen right in that case, actually was started with a woman who bleacher her child had been sexually abused in the woman actually, sadly went on to die from alcohol poisoning a couple years later and was schizophrenia, shoes, diagnosis. Apparently, it's gets a frantic in that time.
Nobody stopped and said: oh wait a minute she was the center of the accusers. While this should we take another look at all. This is acknowledged, spend fifteen million dollars a taxpayer money trying to prosecute these people and give zero convictions out of it. The West Memphis three were zestfully prosecuted in Arkansas, I mean railroaded yeah. As no other waited to put this thanks to something like a false confession by Jesse, Miss Kelly, which is mine blowing until you should go, listen to our episode and false confessions heavily weighted. Either that or was a part of another one but yeah. We cover that topic pressure in the end. All of that was based on the satanic panic thing as well, but you could use deftly watch those again HBO documentaries. Paradise lost one two and three year and they are, they may be,
regional in Paradise, lost the child, murders of Robin Hood Hills and I think they thought the same guy. Did you see brothers? Keeper? The other documentary? Ah, yes, but the other writers love their old man. That's the same guide. Brothers keepers are put him on the map, so I think he thought the paradise lost. One was just the documentary and to his credit, Joe Biden, Billinger sure I think he he really champion this case and followed it to it collusion over the course of two more documentaries over the years. The I am from what I understand. He changed his mind about the the content or the crime midstream like I think you didn't go there. The Good NEWS is covering the crime and then yeah actually saw was going on is like well yeah. I think I think he was I mean because of him. Exonerated. Ultimately, yeah like you got three people out of prison, one of the three year: hats off but again this is part of the satanic panic scare in there
not that when that kind of came at the end of it, but the young mink, Martin Movie on HBO, started to change the tide in so did the exoneration of a woman named Margaret Kelly, my tolls in New Jersey, eighteen, eighty three she was led out of prison after it was revealed. How coercive the questioning was yeah of the children who ended up accusing her of this, and that was true in every case, it seems, Is it shed a lot allied onto this in people started going like well? Well? Well, well, wait this coercive harlots! Look at these other cases there and you go back and look at the transcripts and see like no Kate. These people were basically telling kids what they wanted to hear yeah. They were using approval whenever the kid said, something that that pointed the finger grey areas disapproval when they, the kids, refused to talk or whatever or implicate. Anyone, You go back and really listen to what the kids are saying. A lot of the time
like no, nothing happened more than they would follow. That with. Are you sure this didn't happen right? Are you sure This didn't happen, you're not supposed to do that in your certainly not supposed to put people in prison for half of their lives while you're, especially not specifically that to a kid who is highly suggestible bright and wants to please, because most kids want to please write, and when you look at some of these allegations, it sounds like if you ask the three year old to make up what they think. Ritual abuse would be here whether kid would say nearly locked us in a closet with spiders and snakes year. They put us in a pool of sharks, they babies and light FED as baby part right. So the real death knell of the satanic ritual abuse, scare came and ninety ninety four, the medicine survey for the National Centre and child abuse and neglect, and this study contacted
secures regular lawyers, social workers psychologists. I think that was it thousands and and the thousands of them across the country ended up whittling, down to a sizeable sample and found all sorts of things specifically. What they found is. There is no evidence. However, of any satanic calls operating anywhere in the? U S or a single crime carried out. Biases cannot call. This is that they found a couple of crimes that were carried out by but an allegedly in the name of Satan, but that these were most likely
fired by this kind of panic itself: an solo affairs fitzooth yeah, that's what this I'm Saint yeah, but they had had. There was in a satanic caught by any means. They also found in the study that children of the ages that that where they would go to day care, weren't capable of forming the type of accusations against satanic ritual abuse, yet that people have been convicted of that. Clearly, the adults who are the ones who were channeling selves through their children. To accuse these people, the kids were saying things like: they lack the sinner, a closet with spiders and snakes yeah, they weren't, saying like they carved open a baby and sexually it, and then we all drank its blood, while everyone's wearing microbes through their sophisticated and after that kind of thing. So the study also prove that too, and then, ironically,
Same survey found plenty of evidence of religious based crimes, including murders carried out things like exorcism staring went too far. They cast off their like that actually is real great, an ironical ii. We have a lot of laws, protecting people who do that, but we have laws. That's up the punishment for satanic abuse, even though that doesn't exist and that one really change the tide of how people saw the satanic, panic, we're and then experts later came out and said as far as the physical abuse and the doctors who testified trial like the type of a physical abuse, these kids, during their like a layman, could look at a child right in and say. While what happened this kid, but you will obviously never be able reproduce. Yes, you're totally mangled, not dislike ambiguous like well yeah. I think you did, it seems like they had some marks where they could ever been.
You know molested or something right like it would have been so obvious right cause. These allegations were so are out there and of course years They say this at the time. Everyone was drinking the flavor aid, yeah nice, the blood- flavour aid, an insult to injury that same media, all of a sudden, the pot story became, the outrage that was satanic panic and what a bunch of crap than it was so now discover that story in full, You know we had a lot to do it right there, I'm so chug. Why did people drink Flavor like what was the immediate reason for the satanic panic. Well, you found this great article, which I found alike. Article six, that the three satanic ritual abuse, as oh yeah- sociological- article, that was good. They have a few reasons as version ideology, as rumour panic,
and as contemporary legend in this urgent ideology about super interesting at any. No, that was, I haven't, heard before they define it as a culturally constructed method gives shape and form the field of anxiety and uncertainty about the future that our experience between periods of rapid, unpredictable, social change right so soon after we're not even necessarily conscious of our anxiety, but we just gonna feel quite right. We're the everything's changed. We gonna! What's going on so what's q yeah we're about what exactly is making us nervous? Oh, how about that group over their sageness Europe fourthly, Jews and before that it was crystal exactly now put in place to do this underlying since of dread. We feel because the times or change exactly Is this an outlet at the expense of other people, but that's the with the subversion ideology. The hallmark characteristic of it is that the that other group takes everything we hold dear and values the opposite of it? Yes arrested at so Satanist.
They use upside down crosses in evil is wearily good and, with its a classic example, servers aversion ideology. Well, I'm wondering if I thought was really interesting in here, is they contained and I'm sure it's true that subversion ideology actually ends up having a stabilizing effect. His people then go. Oh, ok! That's why so upset and worried and images is because it he Satanist not what's really going on, which is the end of the millennium. Apparently really I whatever was another explanation. I ran across those millennial anxiety. There is We know that another when you said moral, a rumour, panic yeah which, if we touched on before, but basically that is this idea- that it's a buying into a rumour yeah like really really buying into it in the way
by into it is because all of a sudden professional psychiatrist and psychologists and law enforcement, people and people in the newspaper are talking about this data like its fact and with that, because we trust these people is being smart, some people, it becomes fact in the eyes in the minds of just normal people, and that gives it veracity in and of itself, once together, believing something, as fact Without any proof here you a rumour panic, has just said in well and ironically to them it seems like the more out there. The panic is the more readily its believed them, because that the old like who would make something like that up right now, a three year old might being coax by police in her parents and her shrink. And then what was an urban ways in which we talk about before, but the sociological article pointed something I hadn't thought of that urban.
In steel metaphors either we don't think of him as metaphors. So in this case the children there were being abused by Satanist were a metaphor for our future and children are our future does go, ask Whitney Houston again, it's true and then, as people start to buy into it, it becomes a rumor, and again you can dress it up with inversion ideology. So, in the end, the mink martens, I don't think they ever I think that you are never prosecute. I think they were indeed oh here and there, while the trial was going on the other. There are never prosecute but never successfully prosecuted. The kellers were eventually exonerated, but they, When twenty one years in prison, their life was ruined. Twenty one years
prison each year is on these false accusations. I have to say if you want to read one of the better articles, I've read, it's called the innocent and the damned from Texas Monthly is written in nineteen. Eighty four, while this satanic panic is going on, but somehow Texas Monthly took a critic, alighted stuff, yes, really get article. I thought this is so fascinating. This crazies seems now, unlike our saying at the very beginning, I count in the world in the nineteen eighties. Did we buy ended this like it was Salem Massachusetts when you look at the reasons behind it, it was like the perfect storm coalescing disorder. Make perfect sense. When you look at everything behind it, it does, but doesn't it also still Mikey even even if you take into account their you using hindsight and that the perspective that afforded by that the goal of That's it that is involved in a moral panic. Is it just it saddening
Edward bananas would have it all over this, oh yeah. Well, he fermented those kind of thing here yeah. It said I also. If you want some yokes go: look up law enforcement guide to satanic courts. I need to hit the videos. Yeah yeah. So weird, I'm glad to know that you had a Satan house in Europe's neighbourhood. To I think everybody. There are rumours that, like somebody found a cat with its head cut off in a panic, graham- and I gotta happened yet because on ten, which is okay, if you ten, but if your fifty it's not ok, especially if you, the local prosecutor, yeah and they also one last thing took. It makes you wonder what moral panic, so we workin on right now, what's brewers now, if his ancient history, You all know more about moral panic, since specifically satanic panic in take those words in the search bar. How supports that come they said, search box. Release her male here's. What I predicted
some people are gonna, write in and say, dude, we're in the middle of another moral panic right now, and it is blank vocal fry. Perhaps lady call me the fry master and email to see that no, I didn't she's like Jack. Always you spoke of fry, and when I listen to my voice and like I totally Delia Butter, Is that a lot more than three so that everything whatever me man? princess call this of course a straight on these atrocious Jordan hey guys, longtime listener love, you guys never thought would be the reason I have to reach out to you at the end of the broadcast on Tuesday. He said no, I guess it was at the end of the recent podcast
actually had to stop and say no, because my friends, Josh and Chuck didn't do that so people not to donate a dollar two by the evil, higher balloons, the grocery store, because company then uses those donations get tax credit. This is absolutely not true. That is not true. He says I have actually been working with children's miracle network hospitals in Connecticut for about twenty years and by the way, when I said, loons. I forgot that was children's miracle network, specifically Did you a lot of work with them in a way through singling them on video shit? No, of course not fair! Amazing! You, like it's the shamrock. Ouch swell terrible after that. So he says our but partners do not get tax credits for donations made by their customers. In fact, many of our corporate partners. These donations through their registers said the donation. Those on the customers receive allowing them to use that, for their taxes would quickly
fact about the miracle balloon that reference is that the first one ever sold means world was at a small diner in downtown little found Roy come in nineteen eighty six about yourself. It might do not for yeah soon. After that, the miracle balloon became a multinational programme, the race money from more than one seventy local children's hospitals process in Canada and its creator I am very, very rich. As I mean I've been doing his job for about twenty years and I have to tell them they say the best job in the world. It gets work with me people like my co workers in all of our partners? Can I get to work for the most inspiring people are patient families? Please help me get this corrected. The stuff you should know leave
don't worry! I love you guys, that is from Scott Organic, the director of children's miracle network hospitals, while from the horses mouth or a director. Yes, so I don't We're gonna Filipinos will further. I think we got other people. That said, that's not true People said it is true for children local network ensuring as we talk about earlier- but there are all kinds of things- and I too, and there are probably not a liar- he seemed like a regular guy nodded there will be no another in anyway right. So what will look into? It certainly did This bears no, I did, and I mean, if that's the way it works. I regret that, but I need to look into the room with her side. The jury is out Thank you very much was named David, David you're awesome. Thank you for the work you do it
If you want to get in touch with us to set a straight, we love that you can three twisted s. Why escape podcast? You can join us on Facebook, dot com. I said you can send an email to stop partners. There has therefore taken and, as always, join us at home on the web stuff. You should know that for more on this and thousands of other topics that house off work. Stockholm during rockers podcast coming of age, about finding a home in rock music and learning to flourish in your own. Weird way. It's also a series of letters of nice to my younger herself ass. She navigates ashes, adolescence seals or social anxiety body issues, relationships and discovers a transformative power during wrapper comes from double Elvis productions is created and hosted by each also arisen and executive produced by Jake Brennan of disgrace. Land episode, one drops ones, they generally fifteen, listen
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-11.