Between 2007 and 2016, 17 disembodied feet - still wearing shoes - have washed ashore between Washington and British Columbia. What's behind the sudden influx of Vancouver's mystery feet?
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welcome to stop. You should know greenhouse gas networks that, ultimately the Pakistan Josh forward through throws the beach bryanthus jury of six feet in this studio, right now in all more exactly Witherspoon attached to their third pillar of the cap above the for facing forward the you right now that the big one, two physical space backwards, coms or use gonna run whale than on medicine. Do you know where they're not supposed to be Chuck feet? Yes,
well they're, not supposed to be on the arrest of the scene for any on an airplane, the yes or movie theater. Yes, but I know you're not talking about common courtesies. That bug me now, but I agree with you wholeheartedly. That is, so wrong here, and I want to tell you, I'm I'm I've come over to your side, about taking shoes off on the plane, thou good! It's ok! If I do it that way! Oh, you may never find somewhere and this dude behind his head nasty the immediate issues off we're facing forward and we could smell his feet below our seats behind us. Kept Turner. Given the dirtiest looks to me like he had no idea what I was doing, that you look at his feet and then give it anything building get it did you look at his feet his face and then clap your hands. I did that
building work through up a little bit on to him. He just I owe their thick yeah yeah. I know people disagree with me. People Rodya were like. What's it to you, I thought it was to eat your teacher Jack. Don't my young yeah, I'm a younger. I so I'll tell you a place where fields must be there. First to be off on their own on a beach somewhere, not attached to a body exactly know, that's not something that you the everyday, no, unless you're in Vancouver, and then it happens like almost every day, it seems like a quite but sure something very we're going on a vain coover. You say: there's no mystery. I think there's still a bit of a mystery to about what was started. The beginning: ok, ok August, twenty, two thousand seven, it's kind of a cool
Drizzly day at a place called jetted island, provincial park of British Columbia Right near Vancouver, right, lovely area, sure animal, that's why you would want to say, like oh Parker Camp at this park with your family, which is why the twelve year old girl was you. I couldn't find skills. Name, save my life policies, twelve yeah sure when we get to see it She was sure she was walking along the beach with her dad and down. There is a big bunch like flotsam. You know that's the term for stuff that washes up from the sea, that the sea spits up under the shores and am she saw shoe and she picked it up, and I she untied it in turn it upside down and out fellow sack and inside the sack was human foot yep and she was pitied size twelve year there was a campus
branch you which ended up being not neither here nor there, but it is manufactured in India, must result in India bright and will this park that right? Therefore, now? Yes, all the families like this is unused. Sure they borrowed a radio from somebody else and they alerted the authorities in a very short order. The Mount he showed up the coroner showed up the coastguard showed I bet the monies are all over that button. So yeah they said you know I will we can take that foot is if that's, ok, little girl and cheap it through heard sobbing tears said you're. Just give me a little. The money you came and they said William Synod offer dna examination and that did not return nothing. The dna.
Far as an area, there is no there's no match for that was, unlike the clue, the DNA yeah now, but it was the first thing they tried to the DNA. They also looked at it to see what was going on at the foot of it. There is in signs of what the deal was here. They held up their ear, but you know it gives a telephone and one of the other man. He said. That's not funny air with their lagoon is kind of funny, and they said sorry, so They didn't they just gonna filed away it actually didn't make much of a stir outside of that area is worth talking about, got a little bit of ink. Is it too so weird, but yeah they put the foot away at the coroner's office in everybody, went about their lives. I would this himself and then six days later, another foot showed up in the area not the same place, but same in the same general area, another right foot, which means I wasn't front, the persons other foot not everywhere. So there's two people missing
now. Yes, this is a men's Reebok size. Eleven. I think in the people who found it said that when they they immediately knew that there is a foot in there because it looked for it looks pretty how that is how they put it: fuller foot, yeah yeah, and they they picked it up and now that now just a foot, that's right in the mountains came again and they got off their horses and Corporal Gary Cox said You know it is a little weird to find two feet you with, especially within sixty days of one another in the same area it was, He described it as a million the one. I don't think you did the science on how better to set me say right, but he said to his pretty crazy yeah and I agree with them yet so the first vote an undoubted island, the same ones I Gabriel Island, which is, I couldn't, find exam.
We have far away, it was across the water, but it's it's not that far right there close, but their separated by some water in there and all of a sudden is two feet. There were found within six days. The media, thirty catch drifted this one here right. There's feed should feed washing up on the shores in Vancouver right in at the time, at the very time, Robert Picton was on trial in Vancouver for murdering as many as forty nine women. Here you ve heard him right and I think so yeah he was the notorious pig or who would like put women them to his pigs and importers, pigs in feed pigs to his guests. You are one of the only probably canadian serial killers right yeah one of the worst of all serial killer, see a horrible horrible person is that he wasn't crazy. You know I mean he resisted just a horrible person. There
and so he's on trial at that time got. I think, twenty five years, which is like the maximum sentencing gettin in Canada. What's come on Canada Year Point twenty five years for fur by up to forty nine mobile murders year through you is on trial there. So a lot of like really high profile missing people in the area to that it has vanished without a trace in the four years leading up to the year new point out. As you wrote this idea, but actually as pointing out the Christopher Solomon pointed something: ok. Well, when is- and this is a little strange- but maybe not unannounced- trying to make sense of it- British Columbia apparently decision higher than normal rate of missing persons than other parts of the world, which is weird yeah, but I mean like a lot more yet more than twenty four hundred Oliver of fifty nine year period,
and Solomon compared that to Kentucky which is about the same size and population or saint size population? Are they only had five hundred and fifteen people missing over that fifty nine years? That seemed really loaded me. Eight people a year missing in the whole state on like that, remained miss, ok, unsolved forever. Yes, kissing Kentucky they'll be like he was Uncle Billy's road for wheat, rice, Ok, so I think that the idea is that busy has almost five times the number of unsolved missing persons cases over this fifty nine period compared to Kentucky which has about the same size, population, more yeah I mean solemnly might have gone in selected like oh, I can take you get the lowest of the same size population so that are really pointed out, but it does seem that BC has a large amount of missing since now I bet it has something to do with the terrain. The wildlife
probably the abundance of water, probably that do not a good kid dry headline. I want my heroin yeah now, sadly, yes, There are other go missing. You know, Dr Vendor, in addition to the serial killer theory, one of whom was that these were like Well who eddie their run, a foul of the local organised crime, syndicates yeah or ran away looks like a fellow heroin direct about organised crime, exact disorganized that movie what movie this organised crime was that a movie with their who's, the dude, the blinded from our law court conference and yes, while sexually give movie. Really I haven't seen him our carbon and apple a decades pay summer. School is one of the all time great, and it sounds like that kind of movie
organised crime area, a bunch of bumbling colonels, definitely, but I think, like afraid, Gwynn, wasn't it Herman months, an area one of his last roles, hurried talking about here is one of the other theories were member. We mention India manufacture that virtue. Some people said you know what this is. Sadly, Justa feat of soon Ami serve rivers from the Indian Ocean disaster December, twenty six, two thousand for, and they just years later, these, like body parts or washing up on shore, yet which is sort of possible. It is I mean to fifty thousand people died and soon army of a lot. If not most, The word never found. Also. We had people point out member when we said that modern disaster flags or bad, we had a bunch people write and say the impossible,
was a great movie. That's the one about yet it was great was awesome, but I think that's different, because that was a factual but a factual event, but- and I really had a grass it as a disaster, now see I dont categorize. It is that because it was a real thing that happened like disaster flicks to me, are you when you, when you invent some crazy disaster? Ok, warming issue, as if it were totally fictional eyes, but the exact same movie. Would you think it considers that a disaster yes, ok, so it's like on that scale and everything to I had the impression here much more heavily on human interests while became that? But Croatia from the sooner me like. I was not the maze
how realistic it is, I will take a very, very tough movie, very hard to watch. Have you seen twelve years to slay yet still cannot bring myself the watch. That is pretty rough, its staring at me or my dvr, very nice it'll be soon I'll. Let you know Others come into work crying. What did I do know are itself The tsunami disaster they said might have been one of the reasons, but I think other people said you know. Maybe that's not the best explanation. Other people say well a lot of people to go missing from other things like planes go down in the Savage Sea which is the body of water between
Vancouver Island in Mainland British Columbia. The wicked various cities are found isn't sailor. I think so, but will hear from Canadians when, where the other you say sailor says they salvage, whose right really gonna. I will it, sir, we're getting excited here these theories, but there were more feet to come and will get back to those feet right after this. New year's resolutions are very, very difficult to keep getting exercise save more money. What about this? We have a resolution that you can really work with stop wasting time going to the post office that right, you stamps dot com instead because they bring all the services of the Eu S postal service right to your computer, with your small business sinning invoices
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so check when those first two feet were found within six days made the rounds, people talked about, it needs a candid drifted out of the news right. Like a foot in the ocean and then a third foot was found in a cage. Roaring back, because this is yet another for a totally different one. This is a woman's for actually a new balance size. Seven. I think yeah Dan Kirkland Islands. The aim general area right through the same forty miles stretch along that coastal area, and this is within two months now- five feet for people yeah. So the the other new balanced sneaker was found. There was the fifth foot found and then in between the yet they match the foot today, that's good or bad, but they found the guys
Right, though the woman that was the woman that they already found her two feet. Yes, ok, so her feet were three in number, five to turn our gach and in between an entirely different persons. Foot turned up immensely eyes, eleven Nike, I think so, yeah within within a two month period, there were five feet belonging to four different people that turned up on this little stretch. That's right, that's significant! Then there was a six foot the next August. This was actually Washington, so I guess it headed Sir papers in order and made its way to the states, and so, like you said, if you're following the story at home, as it's going on you starting today,
but like. If I go to the beach, I'm gonna see afoot today and a lot of people did do that. A lot of people are Amber. British Columbia started looking for this embodied feet. They were turning up so frequently and I'm spoke. You were right, so the seventh foot to turn up was the woman's other foot that's hard to keep track, it really authorities somebody so how many feet in total, sir. I think the last two were found February of this year. And they actually belong to the same person, but they were found a week or two or so a part here. The most recent I'm sure morphine will come. I it seems that way because between so the first thought was found in August, two thousand seven. These most recently were found in February two thousand. Sixteen that total seventeen December bodied feet found within a hundred and fifty Maastricht between Tacoma Washington and British Columbia. That's an
it seems like it and there's a lot of theories, but no one can say definitively here's what's going on right in an hour making a lotta jokes. I realize his feet belong to people who are no longer with us from the throw that out there that we do a lot of comedy on the shelves. We did a coma episode that had jumped summing cannot get this want to see a way there. So from the beginning, the cops in the mountains were basically like. I don't you know the seems really fishy, but it's not we don't think it's murder. We don't think there's someone other killing people in shopping, their feed off right, which is what a lot of people thought yeah bring in, notably, I think because their feet weren't cut off and you can tell right were face. They said that they were naturally desert, titillated guy, that's right, I'm so that first foot that that girl found engendered island was identified pretty quickly because the cops released a picture of the shoe to the media. Yes, IRAN
it was a campus brain which is made in India Chisel, mostly in India, and so the guy who's foot. It was. His family saw it on the news year an identified him as somebody who he was a long time suffer of depression and he was in a depressed state when his family less on. So the cap's came to the logical conclusion that he killed himself right, so foot number one has been matched to a missing person. Klutz reiterate that in the new balance choose turned up on separate islands. This is the and she was identified as Do you also was suffering from depression and jumped off bridge? I think that they knew this sure. Yes, that's where the woman was last seen was jumping off Albert Jan. If it had been for years previous, so now they're starting to get a pattern here? Where are right?
There was another man to the one on Valleys island feet. Three and five were they determine, was either suicide or access and then another couple of people who were accidentally killed, and so they see this pattern, our aright. These are people that just happened to die, or died by their own hand near enough to the water where their feet were there. Yes, I'm speak vague for now yeah. But the weird thing is is now all of a sudden in a very short period of time, relatively short period of time, I mean he's. One of these guys whose feet turned up was I seen after his boat turned over a nineteen eighty seven year, so innovation on all people who died every different periods of time. Suddenly their feet were starting to turn in this area around the selfish sailors, see yes, I'm in the Cubs ahead of us. I guess kind of a pretty good idea,
from the outset. But to understand what was going on, or at least with the cops I was going on, you have to understand what happens to a person who dies in the water. Yes, you think that people float Vienna yeah. Think that, because in movies you know, if you're trying to get rid of a body in the water, you always you know, tie cement blocks to a summit. Shoes, radio, joke Nina shoot. Somebody turned up like that in New York recently like with dementias, while many movies, but the ideas that you have to wait, the body down and I suppose, if you're gonna, get rid of a body that probably do the same thing. Just out of you know discover my basis just to be sure yeah. Well, the thing is it: if you do you cement, she was on a person. Yet she should never do that now. But if you did, what you're doing? Is you not ensuring that they sink rate then you're ensuring that they don't come back? Yet because that's what happens that try body that has gone unconscious or has
around and died sinks pretty quickly. Yes, and it usually think so, quick there. If you are looking for a drowning victim, you view should look on the bottom yeah, pretty close to where they were last seen on the surface yeah. They think that fast man, so a body sinks and ill think faster and freshwater. The salt water, because salt waters, but makes humans a little more boy. I guess overweight people, people lot of fat on their bodies, the sink more slowly than people. Who are leaner, yes and then, depending on the water temperature, is well and how deep the water is will sink fashion they get to the bottom in, depending on what you're wearing the air like a code or shoes Do you like that? Allow away a damn backpack again, Stephanie Gonna pull you down, but the point is one:
go under when she submerging in your debtor, you're dying, you're, gonna. Think pretty quick, yeah, there's more pressure to the deeper you get nobody water. You mentioned the temperature was lower, but there is also more pray Makin presses the air in your body. Him that's gonna, make you less floaty is well, so The thing the cool heir to the cool temperature does down there. Is it kind of peace, nerves you for a little while longer than ordinarily, because the bacteria that will eventually consume your body or disk Anna be slower. Yet so they just move more slowly by. The bacteria is eventually going to overcome the sinking of the body, because your bodies in enclosed system gin
Roughly I mean you gotta mouth and I sure, but whereas there eating their putting out as a waste product gases, their big methane and stuff, like that, you and your body traps that stuff in it begins to bloke. And everyone knows that once you blow, you float that's right. That's the forensics bumper sticker yeah, eventually you're going to rise in the top, like a veritable because of those gases that are trapped in your body or look like a submarine. I guess I guess you mean they keep going into the air like a book he flung off, and then your father would be found on the moonlight yeah you're gonna float and that's why? When never, they people discover like a dead body in a lake. Much later it seen us not a pretty thing: they're they're bloated and an puffed out and
Decomposed here it's not pretty, but if you are, if you are trapped, say like in a vehicle or something like that right and all this takes place eventually Yeah you're buys gonna, be prevented from floating away measure and it will eventually rupture in one sense, Sure happens all that gas and the the buoyancy that created by is all released, and you stand there you're saying there and I read this article about them read the article about Oklahoma Guy gas, really weird his aunts and said it is so like the guy there's, a guy who is dumb, whose brother went missing in his camaro and I think like nineteen, every year and he just never knew what happened to him and he uses boat ramp on this place called fossils, and he found out later when the cops accidently discovered the car they his brother had been submerged in just twelve feet of water.
For forty years, all those times he was back in his boat into fast, like his brother, was right below there in that crazy. And they found em accidently, and then they found another car that had gone missing. I think the year before it just a few feet away and the moral of the story is that fast lake is really murky. While I mean twelve feet water to different cars tomorrow here tomorrow and I think, like Packer, something I Buick unbelievable, very realistic, another little break and we'll talk a little bit more about what can happen to a body underwater and what's the deal with all these feet, the new year is about us, which resolutions do you, plan to conquer and twenty twenty become more mindful orkut
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Just this year there was a study, the sum criminologists Simon, Frazier you outside it. Coover, and they ve been a bunch of studies like this over the years where they we talked in our body, farm episode, where criminologists and forensic experts try to see what happens to bodies under various conditions, including being sunk underwater, so they took a pig carcass This case not a human could ever and they sunk it can it near where in the sale of sea, where these feet had been appearing, and this these pigs carcasses were They were bones and a matter of days it was really really fast. Yet it really surprised, surprisingly fast, because you know conventional wisdom is that this took weeks months, maybe even cure. Other studies have shown that right and these things is pigs were like two phones in a few days. They think it possible that the sale of sea,
is an anomaly, because this was an almost a thousand feet of water here, but it's really highly oxygenated too. There's a lot of wife down. There were a lot more things to eat a body, exactly whereas if you took it to another body of water and a thousand feet there, there might not be as much oxygen so it might take longer by sailor, see it's possible for something to be reduced. The bones in a few days. Yet here is my one problem with the way they did. This study, maybe over thought it, but they trap that under fencing, yet which presumably means that that was just a kind of in one place the whole time I would like. If you're gonna simulator human body, I would have maybe shackled a leg. And and put along leader a hundred silken move around and see what the body would do. You see the sights because nobody can move on the bottom a little
because he s current, isn't it. You know that this unit minor gripe yeah, but you have you, seen the video of it. The time elapsed, video now really something in their scope. Don't need it. So there is another study that I found that really kind of ties all this together from ninety ninety two and it was carried out by the corner of the king's county. Witches were Seattle is yes and he or she I think he was a. He looked at me Is it had been pulled from the water and he took the amount of time they ve been in the water submerged and then the amount of body parts that were laughter exactly what body parts were left right?
we went back and reverse engineered the process by which a body comes apart when submerged under water, with valuable information they really answer what they were they came up with. Was that this these skin, the thinnest areas askin typically cover like joint? So if your wrist and ankles here does get eaten away first, exposes that soft tissue beneath their hold your hand to your arm or your foot to your leg and then that gets attacked by scavengers in all the other stuff. It's eating it, and so they between the things, eating that soft tissue holding the bone together gas and the wave action of the currents at the bottom of the the body of water the hands and then the feet work loosely.
Articulate the city naturally will fall off the body as the bodies decomposing submerged water and they they are among the first parts to go that right and if you're just a foot and need not wearing issue, then chances are that foot will get consumed and you will never see it again. Although one of these feet was a barefoot correct, Yes, what seems to be a little bit of an outline little bit, but if you got a shoe on that thing, it's tied up nice and type in your desire to collate it at the angle that foot is still inside that you gonna make a really hard for a scavenger to get in there and its very possible that that foot will not decompose rural dailies decompose. Slowly right and not only there will be protected once this articulate if its wearing a certain can issue specifically and athletic shoe. That's made
in the last like fifteen twenty year here. It's gonna have air injected into the sole here and in the case of like member Nike, AIR Max is their actual air pockets like in the in between the soul in the bottom of the shoe here and that actually creature a buoyant effect that will lift a shoe, including one that has a foot still inside, to the surface. Yet so they start looking eyes cases they said well. Almost all of these are athletic choose. So that makes sense, and it's gonna Bob upside down because of that rubbery soul, so it's gonna be protected. Even more. Birds and things I so. What we have here is a case of people that just happened to die in their feet, happened to come away from their bodies and be well protected by these awesome running shoes, yes, and eventually made their ways to shore yet
but little bit we're that they would happen in this area. In such a span of time, I would still say right: that's vets to me the and in which you see that's what you just said. That's the cops position here and it has been basically since the outset since the first floor found. They had nothing to see here and there is not a lot there to arm to undermine it. There are attacks like it's a pretty sound position yet, but then there is still a street her to me in that why British Columbia, like it, the it doesn't, make sense, there's a couple of exploration. The one is that this
irish sea- is something like a lagoon too, where water flows, Infinite Pacific Ocean from South northward into the sale of sea and once stuff goes in their basically recirculated doesn't come back out very often, while that when you see the scientists a sailor, she's his feet flow when they dont flow out exactly right. So what you see a tiny little there's the explanation of the ideas that the sailor sea would experience a higher incidence of flotsam of all types, including feet.
It, which is one explanation, could be right. Well, I'm sure there's somebody with it sure the other explanation is one of my favorite things in the world, which is a version of while there's coupling aims for it. Those Ganem Arnold Wiki, two thousand six linguistics, professor at Stanford, coined the term frequency illusion. That's one of the cognitive biases were basically with you are looking for some you're gonna find it all. These people saw in the news feet washing up on the shore selected They all started looking for feet and every time a foot was found to support the idea that yes, there something really we're going on here, which only the awareness and the focus on this, which means that people seeing more and more feet, that's right! So frequency illusion specifically, is a mix of selective attention and confirmation by us, so in this case selective attention, unconsciously keeping an eye out for that new thing.
Your default about which is the feet, and the confirmation by us in this case is the reassurance that it's just proof more and more proof of its omnipresence more feet right. You could see that happening here. Fisher, pretty interesting is called the butter mine half phenomenon to yet another that came from those dude until I looked it up. Nineteen eighty four, it was just a commenter honour on the pioneer Press of Saint Paul Discussion Board and he had heard about the bottom line. Half terrorist group a couple of times in one day and for the first time yet- and you said you know, Potter- might have phenomenon bright and became a mean yeah. I thought was more photos cooler than that. No about, though some cool explanation that wasn't just some dude online it. If I sounds cooler than it is, it sounds Wakefield within it is, but it's a common thing
people are you talk about eleven eleven on the clock is a big one for a lot of people saying I see eleven eleven, all the time in the clock Fisher looking for it sure frequency illusion it is not actually happening more than it ever was you're just paying more attention to it. Now and this really really unnerving suggestion man, because it it's it says that feed washing up on the shore is way common. Then Airbus realize that if you went over and picked up and athletic shoe on a beach somewhere, there's a good chance that there's gonna be a foot inside. We just are aware of this, as is human beings in in outside of Vancouver right right, so that makes Vancouver the capital of the Disan body the disembodied fee, capital of the world. I dont know that necessarily holds up there. I don't think about it. Explain
does it mean I bet Abijah its frequency illusion. I disagree. I think it's something else in any way as a deal with the hydraulic g or something about Vancouver or British Columbia. There's some database called name us. It's like a catalogue of unidentified remains here and I did a search for dessert securely foot Forty thousand unidentified remains in the. U S: thirty thousand were from the bank over the only three where does articulated feet in wine was found in the Washington state area. My so you could technically kind of included in that Weird Vancouver club.
One was in Maryland your Mama's in Dallas. There was it so it does really seem like. Thank Hoover has a higher than usual incidents of this article eighty feet showing out in its area. Howie. It's weird are Yonah case, and it is a faint. So you got anything else. No, I just realized. I've been like rotating my feet around in this field, the sort of You want to know more about this. You can. Actually. There are three really good articles that I read. In addition, a smaller ones, but three stood out. One by western roar of the daily Beast one was on Pacific standard against each other and then Christmas, Christopher Solomons, outside article those rob pretty stand out.
Stand out it's time for all this internet random people watch that we have. Internet, choke off internet roundup, several hundred people locked yeah. It's like the silly thing we do we sit down in the studio on video and we just talk about a couple of things on the internet that we think are need right. So that is to set up a hey guys. I was recently delta flight and they show these until this year, and this is not an Africa resale, adults white from a landed Austin. Keeping an eye out for your hat chuck. I got very excited when I remembered I could watch your internet roundup show on the plane to pass the time in our decision and asked in sudden thunderstorms developed as quite bumpy, to say the least. If you have never been on a plane that unsuccessfully tried to land in a thunderstorm. I dont recommended, I just said: listen to your: how to survive the plane crash episode from two thousand eight.
Just that week before- and I remember thinking ungrateful I was at- I was in the back of the plane- just trucks that had a better chance of surviving. That way. It's not much of a chance but sure I thought you liked to know that in spite of horrible, whether going on in ever lost connection with your show watching internet roundup, unable to listen in what you guys really helped me keep calm until our pilot. Finally, You are trying to land and diverted the plane to Houston, even scarier. I'm not gonna, try anymore those currencies. Close enough yet any and every one made it to ask and safely, though so thanks for everything that is from Lauren sprouts makes lot worn. Have you watch videos of planes that come in for a landing
it's too windy, so they act like immediately take back off. Now, that's never had like they touchdown take up. If you watch those waiting to get onto a plain, it's a really good ways of poking your brains. While no thank you, if you want to get in touch with us, you can hit us up on Twitter as landscape. I guess you can join, the Graham S where escape. I guess you can join us on Facebook that calm such that we should have its own destiny, melted, stuff, Pakistan, the forts outcome, as always, join us at home on the web stuff, you should know doc
Furthermore, on this and thousands of other topics, does it how such works are calm? We are living in complicated times, I'm seventy rule, MSNBC Anchor and NBC News correspondent. In my new plug cast modern rules, I'm gonna be spending time unpacking. Some of the hair is of today's Tom. I decided I was business environment, survival funds, but people board they won't needs. Its american Listenin subscribed to my new pod cas modern rules on Apple five test. The IRA, radio, or wherever you get her factor,
Transcript generated on 2020-01-11.