« Supernatural with Ashley Flowers

ALIEN: The Allagash Incident


In the 1980s, twin brothers Jim and Jack Weiner started having the same recurring nightmares. Under hypnosis, they uncovered the root of the dreams: repressed memories from a bizarre experience earlier in their lives.

To view this episode’s full list of sources, please visit parcast.com/supernatural

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Imagine your having recurring nightmares the same dream over and over again. Ever since you were a kid now imagine you find out your brother is having the same exact dream and so is afraid. Your brother, went to college Wick, and so is enough. Friend, who lives next door to you for people having the same terrifying nightmares. That couldn't just be a coincidence. Right now, let's say that you under hypnosis just to see what's going on in your subconscious during this session. You remember something that happened to you years ago, something so dramatic. You were pressed it from your memory. Just thinking about it sends your heart racing. Then your brother's hypnotized
you're to friends and all full review uncover memories of this same incident. Looking back, you can pin down exactly when and where it took place. You remember it's so vividly. You know it has to be true, there's only one problem. What really happened is so horrific. No one believes you. In fact, Europe, to be sure that you believe it yourself. This is supernatural apart cast original in I'm your host, Ashley flowers, every Wednesday I'll be taking a deep dive into a real unexplained occurrence to try and figure out
treat this week is the story of four friends who had a strange encounter at the allegation Waterway in Maine. You can find all episodes of supernatural and all other Parkhurst originals for free on Spotify and, if you like, but your hearing reach out on Facebook and Instagram at PAR cast and on Twitter at park, ass network. In nineteen eighty, twenty eight year old art dealer named Jim Wiener started having scary health problems. Out of the blue, he'll have sudden chest pains and the left sight of his body will go none and then the symptom list gets even weirder. He starts having recurring night tears what benzes. He wakes up in the middle of the night paralyzed and see something standing over him. Sometimes it feels like he's levitating off the bed other times he hears a strange hypnotic noise, but that shadow
theme is always there. Jim had night tears like this when he was a child, his family joke that the House haunt and they even named the apparition Harry the ghost, but they ve gone away as got older, at least until now. He figures, all of these symptoms must be related, but he doesn't know actually how Jim is on the road a lot for work, so over the next few years he sees specialists in hospitals all over the country, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Utah. California, Texas, all of them, say the same thing. We can't find any cause then, Finally, in nineteen, eighty three Jim sees a neurologist and finds out. His chest pains are a type of seizure he's diagnosed with a temper olympic epilepsy or tee o d, which appear to be caused by a head injury. He'd suffer five years earlier. Tele can also cause pollution
actions out of body experiences and feelings of an unusual presence, so that must be what's going on with. Pennsylvania, Utah, California, Texas, all of them say the same thing. We can't find any cause. Then. Finally, in nineteen, eighty three Jim sees analogous and finds out. His chest pains are a type of seizure he's diagnosed with a temper Limburg epilepsy.
So the whole thing is kind of weird, but Jim doesn't really think much of it until three years later in nineteen, eighty six that year, gems twin brother jack start having nightmares of his own in Jack streams. There's also a strange figure hovering over him and it fits the same description as gems. Granted. That description is super vague. It has two arms and two legs and it's about four or five feet tall. The main difference is that in Jack streams he's in a white room full of hazy light standing against a wall and on the other side of the room he sees Jim and two of their other friends, Chuck and Charlie they're. Just
sitting there almost in a trance, then the weird creature gets closer. It has big shiny black eyes, no knows, and apparently no mouth either, but it has fingers and its holding a sharp metal tool. It lives up Jack's arm and tries to stick something into his armpit, and then he wakes up in a cold, sweat, absolutely terrified. Every time jack has this nightmare. He shaken for days, when he finds out his twin brother, Jim is having the same horrifying nightmares. Neither of them know what to make of it, but if two of, are having similar dreams. Jack starts to wonder about the other two guys in his dream. Chuck and Charlie Chuck, Rock and Charlie have been friends with the twins since college in the early seventies buddy, one thousand nine hundred and eighty six, the four of them.
In their thirties, but there also clothes, Charlie and Jim, live in the same apartment, building in Boston and Chuck and Jack. Both live in rural Vermont, just a town away from each other. So, just out of curiosity, the twins ask Charlie and Chuck if they ve been having any We are dreams lately and what do you know? They both are having the same recurring nightmares has to be more than just coincidence, but no one has an answer. Jim even brings it up to his doctors, as if his epilepsy could explain why his friends are having your dreams. But, of course that's enough. Then a couple years later in nineteen. Eighty, eight Jim reads a book called communion by Whitley Strieber. It's a purportedly, true story about a strange experience. The author has one night which is eagerly similar to the nightmares. Jim and his friends are having
something in the book kicks loose and old memory. A few years before the four of them started. Having these nightmares, they got on a camping trip together, and something happened on that trip that none of them had ever been able to make sense. So in August of nineteen, seventy six, Jim and Jack were both twenty three and starting their careers as artists in Boston. Charley was in college and Chuck had left school a year ago and was living in a tree house in Vermont that summer Chuck wanted to go camping at the GOSH Waterway, which is essential of lakes and streams, just north of the appalachian trail. He invited the others join him and they agreed the first few days of the trip were pretty uneventful. They
hiking Canoeing export the woods like nothing really out of the ordinary until their fourth night in Alec Ash on August, twenty. Fourth, just after sunset, the four friends were setting up their tents on the shore and Jim saw a strange light in the guy like a star but way brighter than any other star. He could see he looked through his binocular and realized. It wasn't a star at all. It was some kind of glowing object, maybe two hundred feet above the tree line. He watched it for a while, and then it suddenly blinked out and disappeared. Jim figured must have been a helicopter or something. So he let it go until two nights later on August. Twenty six again, it was right after dusk. They canute over to a different lake setup, camp fire on the beach and headed back out on the waterway for some night fishing as soon
They were out on the lake. They saw something up in the sky. It was the same glowing object. Jim had seen a couple nights ago. Only this time it was much closer. It was so bright in almost looked like a minute. Your son, the four of them, sat there and watched it for a few minutes, just hovering over the trees. Moving back and forth totally silent. It couldn't be whether below it was way too bright for that, and it wasn't a helicopter either because it wasn't making any noise. After a while Charlie decided to signal with a flashlight just to see what would happen, he tapped out an s o s in Morse Code and the light started. Moving closer Chuck immediately dropped the flashlights in shock and starts paddling. Whatever this thing was, it was time to get out of its way.
They paddled back to the shore as fast as possible, but this aircraft kept gaining on them by the time they reached the bank. It was directly above them about fifty two hundred feet above water level and, up close, it looked like nothing they ever seen before. Then, a beam of light came out of the bottom right over the canoe and the next thing. Any of them remember their standing back on shore. The object was flying away back in the same direction. It had come from. It got smaller and smaller and instead Lee blinked out of you. Now none of them had any idea. What just happened. They all had a gap in their memory for the exact same time span from the object hovering over them to being back on the shore. Something must have happened in between, but it's a
model blank they only remembered being out on the lake for like twenty minutes, but the camp fire they built was burnt to ashes. It would have taken hours for that fire to burn out now, you'd think after something like this, the four of them would be freaking. I would be freaking out, but oddly they were pretty com more days than anything else and completely exhausted. They sat down at the picnic table to try in peace together what happened, but after a few minutes they were too tired to even keep their eyes opened. They just fell asleep at the table when they woke up the next morning. They still weren't panicking. I mean what are they supposed to do? Tell the police that they were but attacked by a UFO. They were all just ready to pack up and keep moving when they got to the
next campsite be flagged down a forest ranger and told him what they saw. He didn't believe a word of it, but they insisted they weren't joking, they weren't dreaming they weren't drinking or on drugs. They saw this thing so the rings and reported it to the main office and it turned out a few other campers had reported similar things in the past few days. The radio dispatcher chat with the AIR Force base near by to see if they had any aircraft. Passing through recently, but they didn't, there was no other explanation the Rangers could think of so there is really nothing else they could do when the four friends got back from the trip they mentioned. The weird flying object to their families, but again no one believed that, and that was the end of it. At least until five years later, when Jim Red Communion by Whitley Strieber. So the reason this book kick started. Gems memory is because it's about an alien abduction,
Strieber claims that late one night in nineteen eighty five, he was woken up by a strange, he's coming from outside, then he saw a small figure walking into his room and approaching his bed. He blacked out, for a while and the next thing he knew he was in a strange, grayish white room sitting on a bench being examined by humanoid creatures. Now, at the time this book came out, Whitley Strieber was a best selling whore author that he claimed the book was a true story, but most people still assumed it was fiction Jim. Might have dismissed it too. If it didn't sound so eerily similar to the nightmares, he and his friends were having an alien ship called to mind. The mysterious aircraft they'd seen an allegation which got Jim thinking about that sudden jump in time between the object, hovering over them and being back on the shore
What happened during that gap and why could none of them remember it at this point? Jim was still hoping there was a rational explanation, for this lost time is a symptom of tea. So he mentioned the allegation incident to his psychiatrist with the camping trip happened twelve years before the brain injury that cause the tea in the first place, even of gems lost time, was caused by an epileptic seizure, a wooden explained why it happened to three other people in exact same moment or why all four of them were having the same recurring nightmares. There was no medical explanation for this, so Jim Psychiatry refer him to another expert one whose specialised in you, a foe encounters, will look into that right after this now, let's go
to the story in May of nineteen, eighty eight Jim drove to a? U F, O conference, a few miles outside of Boston on his psychiatry recommendation. He was there to meet the keynote speaker. Raymond Fowler Fowler was the director of investigations for the mutual UFO, now or new fine. He literally wrote the handbook on UFO sightings. If anyone could explain what was going on Jim and his friends or at least rule out the, stability of an alien abduction. It was this guy, before the conference, Jim, flagged down valor and tell him about what had happened in our gas, the lost time, the nightmares and the fact that the other three people on the allegation trip were all having the same exact dreams. Even Fowler had never seen anything like this. Having four witnesses to the same abduction would be groundbreaking if it was an abduction he couldn't get
Jim a straight answer, at least not yet the only one who really knew what happened during the last time was Jim himself. The truth was buried in his head somewhere and to get to it they need a hypnotherapy. Hypnosis has kind of fallen out of fever lately but the popular idea in the Eightys and Ninetys was that traumatic memories could be repressed as a defence mechanism. So the point of hypnotherapy is too you into a relaxed state words easier to call up those subconscious. Memories. Re Fowler had been hypnotized himself in the past and, as you might have guessed, he uncovered memories of being abducted by aliens. He set up an appointment for Jim with his old hypnotherapy as Tony Constantino according to follow
book about the case. Here's what happened! Jim sits down an easy chair, Tony puts on some relaxing music, and he talks him in two hypnotic state from their Tony told him to go back to the night of the EU. If o citing image haitian aside. Whatever they saw was an unidentified flying object. So that's what we're gonna call it Jim, was able to remember everything about that night, going out on the lake, seeing the light in the sky, the, U F, o hovering for them and shining down what he described as a tube of light, and then his memory skip to being back on the shore. Everything in between was still a total blank. According to Tony this meant gems conscious, mind was still blocking the memory, so he tried to new tactic to around the mental barriers, he told Jim imagined sitting in front of a big tv screen with the word. Yes on
inside and no on the other. He would ask a question and Jim would tell him which side of the screen lights up after answering some yes or no questions with this technique. The memory start flooding back all of a sudden, Jim, remembered everything. On the other end of that tube of light, there was a room three or four creatures like the ones he Tina dreams were hovering over his brother jack moving his arms back and forth, like they were examining him and Chuck and Charlie were sitting on a bench near by up to now Jim hadn't personally remembered anything about being in a strange room with a bench or the other three being with him, but his brother Jack's nightmares would just like that since Jim knew about his brothers nightmares, there's always a chance that he was unintentionally borrowing some of those details. But here's where really
interesting Jim, knew that in his brothers dreams he could clearly see the creatures faces, but when Jim describes the creatures under hypnosis, he couldn't remember their faces at all. He actually said quote: Jack remembers the faces and he's even told me, but I don't remember anything in the moment. I could only fight to concentrate on what was just right in front of me. End quote so that implies this was a distinct memory of his own, not just a composite details from his brothers account when Jim came out of hypnosis, he was shocked by what he'd uncovered he had more questions now than he did in the beginning, but Tony told him not to go digging for answers on his own. If he read any UFO books, the details that he learned,
might seep into his own memories. He also warned him not to tell the other three what happened during the session, because over the rest of nineteen, eighty, nine jack, Chuck and Charlie would all separately undergo hypnosis Jack was the next to go and his wife Mary came with him for moral support. Like his brother jack, initially didn't, remember anything between the beam of light and being back on the beach, but once he got into a deeper hypnotic state, he started reliving that night vividly what he remembered was after the light came down over the canoe
They were somehow transported into a room full of hazy white light. This part was just like his recurring dreams. He was paralyzed, surrounded by creatures with big black eyes and Jim Chuck and Charlie were sitting on a bench near by then Jack. Remember something new, the creatures poked him in the armpit with a metal tool, and they start moving his arms up and down. That's the same thing. His brother, Jim, describe seen during his session. So either Jim broke the vow of silence and both of them were lying or the two of them were coming up with identical memories, completely independent of each other. What's even stranger, when Charlie, comes in for his session a month later. He also uncovered the exact same memories: Charlie, even described it in more visual detail. The room
we're in was like a doctor's office with a cabinet full of medical equipment. There was a window next to the bench and when looked out, he could see the canoe on the lake down below. After doing some medical tests, the creatures took Charlie and his friends to a different room, a hollow beam of light, shot out below the floor and one by one. They descended down it. After this session, Tony the hypnotist wrote to re Fowler that he fully believed that Charlie's recollection was genuine and that the accounts from all three men were all very consistent, but before they could make a definitive call, they had to talk to the final witness Chuck was the last one to go, and he also had the most difficulty getting into it. Chuck is a
rough and tumble outdoorsman who once lived in a tree house, so not exactly like the usual hypnosis type. Eventually, he did remember being aboard the. U S, foe and historic, matched with the other three had said, but it seemed like he was reluctant to discuss it like. There is still something holding his memory back and then, while he's describing the alien figures, he was asked whether he'd ever seen those creatures before, and he said yeah. In my room, when I was little chalk, remember a time when he was four or five years old, where he woke up to a strange figure staring at him at the foot of his bed, it
just like the aliens from the ship in Alec, except it was a little smaller. This happened several more times throughout his life from childhood all the way to adulthood. This was a huge deal because in most cases of alleged alien abductions, the same people claim to be visited multiple times throughout their lives so to re Fowler. The childhood visitations were a strong sign that they were dealing with a real abduction when Chuck woke up here, barely believed. It himself Chuck had read a few books about alien abductions, including communion by Whitley Strieber, the same book Jim read before he started hypnosis, so he wasn't
or the memories he uncovered really happened or heat imagined it based on the details from the book. But there is something else he couldn't explain away: chucks wife couldn't make it to the appointment that day so Jack's wife, Mary, went with him for support and when Chuck started talking about his childhood experiences, Mary thought back to an old family story Harry the ghost we mentioned earlier, how Jim had been having night tears ever since he was a kid and his parents had blinded on a poltergeist well, Jim, wasn't there wine who was seen things the whole family had this strange activity around the house, doors, locking and unlocking themselves the tv. Turning on and off weird noises at night Jack haven't thought about it in years until Mary brought it up, but he also remember seeing this monster in the middle of the night when he was little as well. Re Fowler reached out
Jim and Jack's mother gene and she said yeah. I remember Harry the ghost. In fact Jean had seen the ghost for herself one night. She woke up to see a white glowing figure at the end of her bed. Her husband woke up too, but they were both to stun to move. After a few minutes, the figure walked out of the bedroom door and disappeared. It was so real that they thought it was an actual intruder, but they searched the entire house and he was nowhere to be found now Jean, with a sceptic through and the real she didn't believe in flying saucers, and she definitely didn't believe her sons were abducted by aliens, but she knew what
she saw that night, even if she couldn't explain it. So at this point we have three family members who had been seeing the same nighttime visitor for decades. One friend who had similar experiences going all the way back to childhood. We have for total witnesses to the same UFO, citing who all lost time for hours with no explanation who in having nightmares about it for decades and who were called details of this same shared experience under hypnosis, not to mention a half dozen people who seen or heard about the UFO twelve years ago, including the forest ranger, who took the reports and one professional hypnotherapy who believes there telling the truth as icing on the cake, Jim Jack, Chuck and Charlie all took polygraph test to prove they weren't lying about their memories and they all passed. There were only two coherent theories to pull together all the.
Pieces either. This was a massive hoax in the works for over a decade or the four friends from allegations were really abducted by aliens will look at the fall out after this and will speculate on whether there is actually a third option that we haven't considered yet now back to the Tori in ninety. Ninety three re Fowler compiled his notes on the hypnosis sessions into a book called the allegation, abductions, Jim Jack, Chuck and Charlie were a brief media sensation. They appear, on, like the John River show, they were profiled on an episode of unsolved mysteries, but understandably, everyone, was buying the alien abduction story. What struck people the most wasn't, how bizarre it was, but how familiar it was
from the description of the aliens to the medical experiments to the flying saucer, with a beam of light at the bottom, every detail seemed like it was ripped from a sigh fi, horror movie, but to you a foe, researchers, it is that simple in nineteen? Eighty eight of folklore forest named Doktor Thomas Ebola, put together a study of over three hundred UFO encounters from all over the world. What he found was that every report followed the same consistent near it. The abductees were taken a border UFO and examined the aliens spoke to them telepathic easily. Sometimes they were given a tour of the ship. And then they were brought back home. If the abduction narrative sounds familiar to us now, it's because most pop culture, depictions of aliens are drawn from these same abduction accounts. As for the abductees themselves, they might be
were credible than you think in nineteen. Ninety two psychiatrist, Doktor John Eames MAC, did a study of sixty alien abductees. He found at the majority of them appear to be lying or suffering from any mental illnesses. By all evidence, they were telling the truth, or at least what they thought was The human memory is scarcely unreliable. It's just as easy to invent memories as it is to forget them for example, there was a study done in ninety ninety five, where the participants were told a brief story about it, finally got lost in a shopping mall as a child. The story itself was a complete fiction, but when they were asked to provide more details about that experience, some of them described how they felt or what the point
and who rescued them was wearing. They didn't even realise that the whole event never happened in a hypnotic state, your more suggestible, so it's even easier for your mind to invent false memories. If you go Two expecting a certain now come like an alien abduction. It's pretty likely that your brain create a memory to match those expectations, and once you wake up, that memory will seem so completely real, even if it never actually happened. However, even if the memories, the four friends uncovered were false, that still doesn't addressed the shared dreams that started at all. How do you explain that and more to the point, how do you explain the UFO sightings in our in the first place that question we do have a possible answer for in two thousand, sixteen more than two decades after the allegation. Abductions had the news chuck suddenly came forward with a confession. They were all on hashish
Which is a much more concentrated form of pot note from the beginning, all four friends had denied any drinking or drug use during the camping trip, but suddenly, forty years after the fact Chuck was saying that was a lie. He retracted all his statements about the action there were covered, memories, the dreams, etc. With one exception, he maintain that they did see the UFO in allegation, but they were all totally stoned at the time. Hashish impacts your perception of time and Space So it would explain why they were so carried away by the light in the sky, which in all likelihood was just a weather balloon or a military aircraft. They were so distracted, they lost track of time, and so what felt like twenty minutes was actually a few hours. However, when Chuck made these allegations, Jim Jack and Charlie all continued to
I any drug use and, according to an article in a local newspaper, the fiddle had Focus Jim had his own take on why Chuck was changing his story when the media frenzy started to wane in the nineties. Chuck apparently came to them with a plan. To quote make a million dollars on the allegation case. End quote, they would criticise the way. The case with hand, by Re Fowler and the hypnotherapy best stirring up controversy would create more attention and they could make a nice profit note the other shot him down after that, the friendship deteriorated and eventually they cut check out of their circle entirely. According to the other three chuck sudden confession was just a plot to get back at them what is ultimately comes down to is who do you trust the man who admits to lying for decades and a clear motivation to change his story or the three men
say they were abducted by a UFO. The easy answer is none of them, but actually they all might be telling the truth, or at least their own version of it under Hypnosis Chuck did Member being abducted, now gash and being visited by aliens multiple times as a child, but he was never or if the memories were real or if he was just imagining them. Eventually, he decided on the latter. It was a false memory. Meanwhile, Other three believe the abduction story so fully that, whether its objectively, true or not, it became true to them, it safe to say they were lying exactly, but with the evidence, we have it's impossible to know for sure whether the abduction really have
I'll. Leave you with a quote from Doktor John, a MAC. The Harvard psychiatrist who studied abductees the furthest you can go at this point is to say there is no authentic mystery here, and that is, I think, as far as anyone octagon thanks for listening I'll, be back next week with another episode, you can find all episodes of supernatural and all other Parkhurst originals for free on Spotify Spotify has all your favorite music and pipe cast all in one place there, making it easier to listen to what ever you wanna hear for free on your phone, computer or smart speaker, and if you like this shell, follow at par cast on Facebook and Instagram
and at PAR cast network on Twitter Supernatural was created by MAX Cutler and stars. Actually, flowers and is a park, has studios original its executive produced by MAX Cutler Sound design by IRAN, Shapiro with production assistance by Carly maddened. This episode of supernatural was written by Kate Gallagher with writing assistance by drew coal.
Transcript generated on 2020-06-21.