Hey did you know, there's a place ring it, although it is true Krim headlines five days a week called sorting scale daily and its hosted by me, Rain Williams, Maneater Friday, we break down all the craziest case is going on in the country in a round the globe. If you weren't notes going on before everyone talking about it subscriber sorted scale daily on Apple podcast, Spotify Sticker tune in or anywhere he was near podcast and stay safe, so in scale contains adult themes and violence. It is now intended for all audiences listener discretion

hello, everyone, no cartons with pictures of missing children, have become commonplace, but the very first boy ever to be placed on a meal carton. Ten years ago His name is Johnny gosh welcome the sword and scale episode. Forty eight that reveals that the worst monsters are real.

Well. It was a hell of a week at three different episodes. I was working on simultaneously with three different interview scheduled this week. I could have pretty much picked either one of those two finished putting gather, editing, mixing and presenting to you, but at the last minute all three interviews fell through a backup tomb backup cancel. So I was faced with other not putting out a show out this week for going back to the drawing board and working on a brand new idea from scratch.

Well, there's a show this week. So I guess what I did. Can this episode we're gonna go backs all the previous stories. We ve told you over the last year and a half that were left open ended all the stories that were left in limbo and tell you exactly what has occurred since then. We'll kill you in on any missing gaps and give you a more complete picture of the bigger story.

That means, if you listen to this right now, we should probably have already listen to every episode prior to this. Otherwise you may be a bit lost since we're gonna go. Hadn't assume is already heard all the base stories, and I was also able to squeeze in a special treat at the last minute. One of the more popular stories you ve ever told here on sword and scale is that of the Johnny GOSH Kidnapping and the Franklin scandal and cover up episodes five and six. It was a highly controversial case with a lot of scepticism, a task, and it doesn't help that the case has been talked about extensively on the Alex Jones Programmes, but there was still a crime committed and there is still a missing boy not to mention a lot of coincidences along with an extensive list of strange debts of the

closely associated with the case now. A new documentary film by Director, David Bailenson, seeks to answer a lot of the unanswered questions left over from the original one thousand nine hundred and ninety three documentary on the case. Conspiracy of silence, the film is called, who took Johnny and we'll talk to both David and Noreen, Gosch, Johnny's, mother and victims advocate about this amazingly complex and riveting case. They tuned and hope you enjoy. The show so remember when this happened during this time? The Victor was on his cell phone. He was texting We believe, is making some type a noise. This noise led to an article, and between this aspect, and the victim

an argument over texting, North sample movie theater ended with the forty three year old man dead and his wife wounded. Seventy one year old, retired police, Captain Carter Rees was charged with second degree murder after officials. A faintly shot chat. Orson, who was texting, is three road dog during the previous of a movie Monday witnesses police someone through popcorn, they say Reeves, asked us and several times to stop texting and they left the theatre when he returned and they said the argument escalated, Reeves poured out a gun, say witnesses and shit often in the chess Orson stumbled and fail onto its. He, that seems father to reporters. They didn't, they have personal luggage gently. They would argue, invite another popcorn Reeves. Seventy one year old, retired police officer began arguing with Chad Olsen when the forty three my father was using his phone during the priest,

whose, before the movie loan survivor at a theatre in Wesley, Chapel Florida witnesses, say Reeves left the theatre to complain to manager, but returned even more irritated, also told Reeves. He was just texting is younger daughter, but the fight escalated according to the police report since through a bag of popcorn, it reads and then leave shot him with a three eighty semi automatic handgun. We left the story back in February of twenty fourteen with Reeves safely in jail awaiting trial, then in July this happen as they come on. The air Curtis raised now out of jail. The man facing more charges in a deadly movie, theater shooting, is that home right now, following a controversial ruling cunningly thanks for joining us somebody, Ryan legitimacy or the news, I certainly did the victims widow in this case our age dal. Georgia's live outside the past of Germany, and the first thing, I wonder is did reason have anything to say: we got out try to get a comment from both Curtis Reeves and his wife. But his lawyer did all the talking Reeves.

Has been in jail for almost six months, but his freedom comes with restrictions and he still has a case to prove in court. With a smile on his face, Curtis Reeves, walk out of the past go county jail till a crowd of supporters. Reefs he's been locked up since January after he shot and killed Chad Alston. During his speech apple movie theater tonight he walked away from the detention centre, flanked by his wife and family, is looking forward to spending a great deal of time with his family. Greece did not answer reporters questions as he laughed, but his attorney Richard Escobar Richard Escobar said today: the justice system worked at the end of a long journey. Were here he's free he's were, he should be he's were he should have been from the very beginning, but its harnessed for all sins widow. Nicole, say she is devastated. She wanted this guy to be behind bars the rest of her life rightfully, so and now

This man, who ripped a family apart and tore them to pieces, is now able to be home in his own bed. See his family see his daughter, his son and his granted and its she just unbelievably unfair, as part of his bond reefs is not allowed to make any contact with all sin or have any guns he will We be allowed to leave his house for religious services, medical treatment or to go to the grocery store today. Grimaldi says even with such limited parameters, he is still a danger to society. There is absolutely no question. He went from someone through important his face to murdering someone what to say that can happen again from all the isn't. The only one who is afraid of Reeves being free. Other residents in the past, go county area who of allegedly had running with Reeves in the past or to please

with his release in the state and a turn like this and looked back towards us any says. Why don't you shut up and it was seeing that anger. Edward Thomson says stuck with him ever since the night. He went to the movies and Zephyr Hills. Eight years ago, when the former electrician saw Curtis, Reeves, arrested and charged with second degree murder for the shooting incident in Wesley chapel. He was sure it was the same guy he encountered in two thousand six. What is it when they let him out are the crazy schedule. Killer Thomson says when Reeves posted bond? He immediately called the state attorney's office and gave a statement the seventy year believes Reeves was baiting him into an argument and hopes. Others come forward with their story. How many times has. This happened to other people that never say anything, didn't. Remember them pay any attention to it over the year

until somebody finally did what he wanted them to do, if this is the second alleged case introduced into evidence that happened before the deadly shooting legal analyst Jeffrey Swartz says, prosecutors are trying to establish a behavior pattern Reed's. Will it work as an effective strategy that it can work with it is a very reluctant to introduce testimony regarding prior incidences or similar pattern conduct and It is truly identical to what happened. Thompson says he politely asked reads to find another seat and that's when the former officer snapped at a distance I see an ice edge of the trial will undoubtedly be revealing an emotional I said at the time and will continue to say that the key to this entire case is going to be the six second period of time after the phone is thrown where camera isn't operating because its ultra violet or alter sound or whatever it may be. That way,

sit run so as a result of which what happened during those six seconds that aggravated the situation to cause Mr Olsson, to grab the popcorn, I dont know, and I think there's only about two people that really do now. Who are those too, Those will be the wives of Mr Olsson and Mr Reefs woody think they're against their testimony. Of course, they'll get on the stand. Do you think it'll help heard what I think, they'll both have their own versions of what occurred. Remember that one both are married to one's the victim and wonder the defendant, their testimony, somewhat questionable. I think it can be a question of which one the jury wants to believe. If it comes down to a battle of sympathy, it'll be high,

for the defence to beat this me and my husband. I didn't get a date night, very often much less the whole day to spend together. So I was just so excited and looking for the spending of money with the love of my life at a place of entertainment, family, entertainment and just to think that, in the blink of an eye, my whole world just got shattered into a million pieces. And now I'm left trying to pick them up and put the ball back together, so hard and so unbearable will trial date has been set and scheduled to start

twenty? Fourth: here's: what witnesses have told us? This boss was moving from Edmonton to win a pig. It was a late night and overnight boss. It was travelling with thirty seven passengers and one driver, and they had reached just outside of Portugal, hurry Manitoba little over an hour and a half from their destination, which was what a big there's a movie playing overhead. They told us it was sorrow if you can imagine that at the back there was an a twenty year old eighteen, twenty year old young man who had headphones on was sleeping with his head against the window. Sitting next to him was a man described is about six feet, tall very large, wearing sunglasses, although its dark in the back of the boss in the middle of the night is about ten o clock at night, still he's wearing sunglasses, they were

together, they just happened to be seated together. Suddenly in the middle of the trip. The fellow who is sitting in front of the guy who is asleep, here's a sound, terrible, sound behind him. He turns around thinking, he's gonna, see a fight, and what he sees is this very large man with his sunglasses. He has a knife that he described as a Rambo knife, basically a butcher knife and he stabbing the other man in the neck, immediate panic breaks out in the bus driver, pulls the bus over the side obviously has a lot of presence of mind to pull over carefully. Some of the bus doesn't rule on the gravel shoulder people begin to Lee towards the fund of the bus. This felt this fellow the symbol, some people together to try and go back and save this fellow who is being stabbed as they move to the back of the boss. The fellow who is has been stabbing this other fellow in the neck is the job cuts off the head of fellow who he's been stabbing, then it

the head and is butcher knife and attacks the people who are coming back to try and help they run off the bus they try to slam the door. This fellow manages to get the nice through the door and he's jabbing at them. With the knife everyone runs in all directions. The bus drivers somehow disables the boss of the fellow who is the the perpetrator, the alleged murderer, he's trying Yet the bus started to drive away, but the bus driver has managed to Flickr, kill switch, truck drivers stops, starts to handle wrenches and cruel bars, and they I'm a little sort of defence in front of the door of the bus to prevent this fellow from coming off the boss and attacking them further. Three for big guys with these wrenches and everything make a little group and they managed to keep this guy on the bus. Other People have won the bushes people are living in the the scene, the dust corruption of the scene is so terrifying and so horrific

I just personally, I can hardly imagine it. Finally, r c m p arrived after perhaps ten minutes rounded the boss and, after a stand off lasting several hours, the man was arrested. This is, of course, the story of Vince Lee who be headed twenty two year old, TIM Mclean man. He had never met before on a greyhound bus during a sudden psychotic episode in July. Thirty of two thousand eight, when we fall told you the story back in November of twenty fourteen on episode, thirty one we mention that Lee had been ruled by a judge, not criminals. Sponsible for his crime rule which shocked many spectators from around the world and even a the percentage of the canadian public? Well, that was just the beginning of the outrage recently This man has been granted even more freedoms. The man be headed? Fellow passenger on a greyhound bus may soon be walking the streets of winter paid on To decision is causing concern. Vince is schizophrenia and was found not criminally responsible

four years of medication and therapy doctors believe he presents little risk to the public, but there is some concern now about least safety. Katy Nicholson explains its seconds me it wasn't. The news Karel De Delhi wanted to hear now he's going to be walking the streets or in a big. I am horrified by that. Nearly seven years ago, Vince Lee be headed to Delhi, Son TIM, Clean, a greyhound bus in Western Manitoba and a parts of his Lee suffers from schizophrenia. He was found criminally responsible for the killing and has been living. This mental health centre. Ever since, on Friday, The Manitoba Review Board granted him new privileges, so long stays on his medication and keeps a working cell phone with him. He will be allowed. To venture alone to Winnipeg on day passes the board.

Will also consider allowing him to move into a group home. He feels great remorse. He feels great shame. Mental health advocate Chris Somerville meets with Lee once a month. He's happy about new freedoms but worries. About Lee safety. Nothing negative will come of theirs, but about when you read the blogs and lets the tweets conversation I mean there are a lot of people who would wish that he would just disappear from the face of this earth administration. Glover is worry too, but not about less safety in a statesman, She says its unacceptable that dangerous and violent offenders are released to our communities when they pose a threat to society. We made chain to the not criminally responsible act to ensure that dangerous offenders at risk of re, offending are kept behind. Bars is where they belong. Those decisions are made in a very conservative small conservative way. This expert disagrees with Glover boards. Foremost, consideration is public safety. Andy,

exercise that, in a very risk averse kind of way. So if you're seeing it, seven like this one where there is some graduated risk its because is overwhelming evidence that this point and is not a rest of public safety. You wanna talk about mental health. It's insane to me that someone could actually say that there is overwhelming evidence that this man is not a threat to society. This is a man decapitated a stranger sawed off body parts and proceeded to eat them and then the victims, ear, nose and tongue in his pocket, presumably snack for later is the overwhelming evidence? If you take a note I look at the success rate of psychiatry in psychology predicting violent crime. It's awful Elliot right you're, Adam lands, James HOMES, are among the hundreds of serial killers that under psychological or psychiatric supervision. At the time of their murderous, rampages psychologists. Our great at naming things after the fact not predicting anything or being able to rule out any thing for that matter. To have you

take someone with a history of violence, give them the floor, did not take their medication if they so choose and hope for the best the definition of insane

what do you think about how we have already done and supported her? You used it and why? I guess in ITALY I would say the games did happening, but at the same time I would just like you don't know the details of the situation for it. Perhaps these the doctors have rehabilitated him to a state where there are able to trust him. To do that, and I like to have faith that the professionals who are in charge of them have made the right decision and that it is they deem it's true. I mean I would like to put my faith in that by just because it is so as assuming usefully rehabilitated. There are enough. People were opposed to feel comfortable with it.

Even given that I think that you still leaves out with some sort of supervision and something I know that even seeing a mouth with care, givers was always is strange. To me, when you want to know, is what do you think? I think it's also yeah, I'm so I'm kind of torn, because I have closely that suffer when I also understand clearly that without some kind of undecided, I guess, but I can I can save Us- and decided I guess, but I can conceive of science and what do you think I would feel it.

Walking through the gates. Yeah, I would be afraid, were not only myself at four others that are with me, especially and were children so yeah, it's quite easy to say: rehabilitation is possible even with the most extreme cases. Quite another. When someone who has committed such horrible acts is now next door. How exam We would you feel, and what would you do different? Would you be were conscious about locking your doors? Would you be more aware of your surroundings? Would you let your kids play outside there's one additional horrible detail. We left out of this story back in November. You see It was more than just one victim: hundreds of our sea MP officers, friends and family filed into can barkers funeral to remember the retired corporal who took his own life last weekend, staff sergeant Your Wayne Foster works with the emergency response. Team

same team Barker, worked on as a dog handler great guy, very compassionate since it or take a shirt off the back, but as a first response Barker was exposed to gruesome scenes that foster can relate to enter any stressful, causing the same things. Nobody should see, and I can see where he's no worries coming from Barker had been battling post, traumatic stress disorder. He was one of the first responders. Seen at the murder of TIM Maclean them. Be headed on a greyhound bus nearly six years ago. People how you as a human, being cedar and not be dramatically affected with the rest of your life. They are simply did provide some support for an obviously and taken his life. He left the wonder, was hidden Wendy Walter, Corporal Barker Sister said her brothers treatment was coming along and while he was still a dog handler, he was stationed at the airport and bus depots. Instead of

spawning slayings, but in the fall of twenty thirteen thing, began. Changing Wendy Wilder is quoted as saying with Vinci getting in the paper about his walks. He started getting flashbacks. She said it was a very rapid decline and last six months you said, texts like, I think, I'm broken to ever be fixed. And he would also say I wish cancer, because then people would understand or broken Barker was fifty one years old

and speaking of convicted killers, walking the streets. Remember this guy, and ask her for learns his fate today, as the judge in this case, hands down a sentence of five years in prison for the deaf. Of his model: golf and rain esteem camp, Oscar Leonard Carl Pistorius. The paralympic athlete known as the blade runner due to his prosthetic legs to story is the man who shot and killed his girlfriend Reeve Esteem Camp in the early morning, hours of Valentine's day, twenty thirteen story is, who is South this version of David Beckham. We first covered this case in episode, ten and then again and absurd? Fourteen and thirty five, when we last left it, a verdict and sentence had been reached by judge suckers mazeppa many, The sentence was to light. Following is what I consider to be a sentence that is fair and just both to society and to the accused,

count one culpable homicide, the sentence imposed. Is the maximum imprisonment of five is imposed in terms of section two, seven six one eye of the criminal procedure x. Number. Fifty one of nineteen. Seventy, given that the was convicted of the south african one of manslaughter. He actually could have got off without doing any jail time at all. Some combination of communal, service in house arrest, but the judge because Isla Mazeppa said that she really wade very many factors, his cycle, Logical and his physical stayed, the tremendous lost the steam steam camp family and then also precedent and the line that resonated from her, and some did all up really was that not giving a custodial sentence at all would send the wrong message to the community along scented. Would lack

an element of mercy. Pistorius of course, got five years and was bundled up. The Tories central prison. Shortly after the sentence was read now to those who felt that Pistorius should have got after sentence. The judge, preemptively said quote Society You cannot always get what they want, because the courts do not exist to win popularity contests, so it five years, Martha the maximum for this culpable homicide or manslaughter in South Africa is fifteen years. So on that short end of a prison sentence, but, of course, much Carter, see around the point that he may actually only have to serve one year of that and then go off and do some sort of house arrest or community serve. It was looking like the stores would serve less than a year in prison before being up for parole, but then, in November, rumours emerge that Pistorius may be forced to serve his full five year sentence because since he didn't have any ankles, an electronic ankle bracelet would be an impossibility during his parole talk about an insult to injury. But now

it's like the whole. No legs thing won't be a problem. The eyes of the world will once again be honest: CAP Historic when a twenty eight year old is released from the horse him and put a prison in Pretoria on August twenty first, the former limp can paralympic track. Star will begin to serve the rest of his sentence under house arrest, and while this is doc. Reversed incomes, family journalist and author Mandy Weena explains release of a convict on probation, a sick them to their sentence is in accordance with south african law. We understand that He has been well behaved, has undergone civil courses, send that he's undergone anger management course amongst others, and that one of the reasons that he is being recommended. Full probation because of of good behaviour said, is at the discretion of the commission president's though Pistorius will be out of prison on August. Twenty first he's not out of the woods yet job for good law does not have double jeopardy, so hot have to face an appeal by the prosecution,

could result in a minimum fifteen year sentence if he's convicted. The danger is that it can only get worse for him from this point, and I motive Conviction is levied on him. Obviously, a sentence now has to match the greater conviction, which is proof But anyway, between ten and fifteen years, Derek believes that shit The state triumphant, appealing the conviction, the blade run a will appeal. The ruling has tension, he doesn't spend more time behind bars. I think Possum the Oscar, knowing he is knowing what to do about the case I think he was already preparing himself went appeal at that time. Feeling about suggesting on rocks. But if it was me, Somebody asked me what I thought he would do. I think he may very well fall for a further appeal pass. The SBA judgment Pistorius, will, more than likely not be seen competing at the highest level, again duties, conviction, but won't be banned.

This house, in fact, as we know, explains you'll, be able to lead and almost normal life so for the next five years after Pistorius will likely serve authorised of his term and a correctional supervision and a house arrest at home he'll be allowed to go to church share hold on a job and also he's lost all the endorsement. We know that he's been trained financially by one of his legal bulls so the golden boy for international superstar, the blade runner Unlikely achieve that kind of stardom many had in the past that gold is definitely tarnished historians will be counting the days until these released on probation in August it'll be a new chapter. Four. The disgraced athlete is here. In time under house arrest, but one thing that he'll have to come to terms. Is the realisation that his career as a professional athletes may just have run its course in Fourteen where we discussed the murder of Oscar Pistorius girlfriend Reeve Esteem Camp, we are

covered the murder of another beautiful blonde hair blue eyed girl named Holly Bobo from Dartin Tennessee last set Amber the families. Worst fears were confirmed: earth, like to extend my condolences. Family and friends of Hollywood. In light of the recent discovery possible human remains indicator county. Tv. I has been able to learn. Through the findings allowed intelligence. Remains are appalling? That was, Gwen director of the Tennessee Bureau of investigations, confirm that remains found the first week of September. Twenty fourteen were those of nursing student, Holly Bobo, who went miss back in April of twenty eleven, the remain were found by two men who were tracking through the woods looking for wild johnsing. Instead, they and a human skull and notify the Dictator County shares department. This ended

three and a half year search for the remains of Holly Bobo firming her murder. This is Sheriff Keith, Gotta go but those gas there remains We acted on our findings. Everything they had already rests with the other that she was. Tonight. I'll call you, despite not having had a body police, had already charged twenty nine year old, Zachary Atoms and thirty nine year old, Jason Audrey, with the kidnapping and murder of Hollywood as directors indicated. The grand jury also indicted Mr Jason minority. If one can expect aggravated kidnapping and one count first murder for the kidnapping immortal the above report There is currently at the Riverside state penitentiary. When a three year sentence for an aggravated is solved that arose out of it

here in the cave, recounting than in October. Of last year, a third man was charged. Another indictment of the kidnapping and martyr of Holly Bobo Dylan Adams has been indicted for raping Bobo. He was already in jail for tampering with evidence and Bobo case. Dylan items is Agri Adams, brother, who was the first man to be charged and just last week, prosecutors announced that the charges have now been combined into one case under a single indictment. The three men Jason Audrey, Zachary, Atoms and John Dylan Atoms will be facing the death penalty has been. I development that has occurred this morning that I think, significantly impact this case in affect the speed which weaken travel in getting this case ready to travel. I understand that the state this morning, our notice of aggravating circumstances,

Any attempt to seek the death penalty has to each of the three to Finland. Is that correct this case is definitely a bizarre one. You see back in June of last year to men, brothers, Jeffrey Peer and Mark Peer Sea have been charged with accessory after the fact for tee bring with evidence, Jeffrey peers. Allegedly showed a friend cellphone footage of Bobo tied up and crying before her murder, the friend Sandra King testified at a preliminary hearing in May that she saw Zachary items in the footage. Mrs king also claim, Jeffrey Pierce told her that his brother mark had filled the incident. King said appeared, the blood and the video was to be sexually assaulted, but she did not see it. I knew what he was fixing to do. I did not want to see kings. He told me that more can be reviewed Zack having sex with highly Bobo

and his exact words after he told me that was he's a sink master even so, that about Martin he goes to show you the video, and why did you see? I've seen a warming. There was tied up that was crying Now. Let's talk about that. Could did you recognise the woman was blind. Yes, it look like calling Bobo. She referred to a Holly Holly, who we're referencing Holly Bobo our way, or we refer to Mr Pearson, Ex wife, whose also nine power which one was for instance, take Holly it doesn't say a last name: does it but Jeffrey piracy claims the accusation is alive. Do you have a video that shows what happened? How about no man no video. I have not seen video never the heart of the video. Until I was questioned about it today, my arrest, Jeff Pierce, he says He'S- never met.

Holly Bobo or any of her family members. He doesn't know the two men charged with her murder as far maybe I'm places on being around people that they would even in I'll, be really. I do anything like that. It is preposterous off our wandering around people like that come home and raise gears yet tonight, pvc in it half brother Mark Piercy Stand accused of hiding sort of video that could help investigators saw Holly's murder case. I don't know although they are desperate and north, probably jobs the closest thing to a modern day witch hunt, I've ever seen. I mean I know that they are desperate and there's probably a job on the line right here I mean it's coming to the point: where they've had the case open slim, and are willing to do. You hear see now asked aware and ankle monitoring system after going to jail, He lost his job as a master, jeweller low, my love

they offer me Amelia tonight he struggling to raise his six kids. Then this gonna call me the next twenty five years, while off allows play Maybe retie and put in my case the college in and get him to help him get a car and stuff like that and take me- that too Morocco, Norfolk and bother food next week is not something that you can just get back over, not by them say I'm sorry, some again restored, my love, they may have destroyed piercing life, but they did not take it from him in October of last year the charges against Geoffrey and Mark piracy were suddenly dropped, no export, Nation was given in February of this year, when you twist in this case, an informant to an infamous murder. Investigation has been found dead, I'm forty eight hours. Insiders, Michel Sedona, Shane off that was granted immunity from all charges in exchange for his cooperation at The brutal murder of Tennessee Nursing student Holly Bobo process?

there's revoked Austin Immunity last year after he failed to help investigators and the search for Bobo's body. Austin was in the process of soup the state of Tennessee at the time of his death, is attorney says he died. Of an apparent suicide, Jane, Austen attorney Lou governs the map. The tragedy is obviously a tragic lawfully, often mainly on that day It fell to the great Austin had been reported by witness to have been following Holly Bobo outside Dictator County home just days before her abduction. It is now clear why Austin Immunity Deal was revoked by prosecutors, but their threats to Day Austin in March of last year. Never happened so remains a mystery as to why he would commit suicide. Now it unfortunate that the government, came in and made allegations without basis and

why the live without allegations under the under the cloud of those allegations? Whoever was responsible for this crime is the the definition of a month. Tom. A big of this next sponsor. I use it every single day, I'm not kidding it's grub hub you haven't used Grubhub, you got to give it a try, every paw what type of cuisine in your area comes right to your door, I mean better than that and the best part of pub is their loyalty program called grub hub plus that offers free delivery, donation matching fur donate the change and a leak. To my care. If you have any sort of issues with your order whatsoever, you get everyday perks off exclusive deals and best of all free food A plus is also look if you're having it raving, and you want that special comfort food from that place. You love down the street, hop on a grub

You may find a few new places worth giving a try. Grubbing up is great for binge. Watching, now that we're all stuck at home for the next couple months or on days were need just don't want a cook and you're tired and it's cold outsiders, too hot outsider. Whatever it's raining, who cares? You can order right to your door with grab your working late. If you have it, its birthday party in just can't get a minute to yourself where, if you just want to, support your local community by patronising some of the delicious food options in the neighborhood, some yummy yummy and do something great for the kids, just for our listeners. Grub is making this special offer right now use promo code sword, Esther you o r d, and You diners, we'll get ten dollars off, dean dollar or more order. That's promo sword for ten dollars off any order of fifteen dollars or more for new diners, so down

grub app today and use promo code sword to enjoy the restaurants you love delivered. Like we would like to thank everyone for their thoughts and prayers during this difficult saga. And have been unwavering in their support and the authorities, have been diligent in their pursuit of justice. We will never understand actions or the motives of those who took.

Only from us, but we continue to that someone will have the courage to step forward and more life on this. This tragedy, those responsible, will be afforded a trout, as an innocent victim hollow had no such right. They can appeal the body they choose to do so. Polly was given no such choice, although in present they can breathe see gobs wonders of this earth and this with their loved ones, not holly we have launched a precious daughter, sister, granddaughter niece cousin in France,

However, those responsible have lost their souls. Holly's. So is the one thing that their brutality could not diminish our extinguished, the family knows: their holidays and a better place and where com. By that knowledge. We hope that no fame we'll have to experience What we have endured are added cannot be adequately described in work. For this reason, we respectfully request thing. Circumstances have denied us, and that is prophecy we believe we have the right to mourn privately as a family and a community.

We know the press and other media have jobs to do, and in fact we all have been very helpful and publicizing Holly's abduction But now is the time for grieving. Police honour our request, the case is in the hands of the authorities and we will not have any further comment as a family at this time? Thank you.

We're in its short break and we'll be right, back with Northern GOSH in David Basin

I am very sorry. I just wanna call and thank you for the very thought tat would be about a month. I started from While I am on my last one asked you for a greater care of sand, carelessly First, I care to listen to it and I am therefore very clever mesh again at the centre of the latest episode and finally, he felt the need to call him and tell you how much I love the PA task get on my hands. I hooked up. I am, but I think it's possible If you go back to work legally format, because waiting two weeks You're telling me her like I'm calling from San Francisco Bulgaria. Can I love you show, though much I was from the simple episode all forty seven episodes twice. Sir I'm around three. I'm calling you from Archangel California endorsing what a huge harry I'm ok. Can I look for what

Reality he murmured every week. I love it is no good. I've gone back. Listening to render you got my fell and they hold up even the second time. Yoke a year, and I hope you get your new weekly thanks, hey my from Australia, and I was really let you know that I am they love. You can't die, enjoy the jury is out- and please please, please make it weekly. Thank you. It very much a lightning doesn't look for these men! Love love, love! Your part gap thrives on my printer expenditure, groundless, Jackie out, down the by catch. Her grand I've heard ever I worry about be authority to be able to do it, won't do it again. It was how have no weight are you wearing to all appetite just to get a delta,

hey. This is confirmed, Enver eyes away, you know, you're the greatest true crime had cast on internet and I have personally forced the six people to subscribe to your bud guessed by just recounting How often your episodes are keeping coming. Anyways, that your fan can give you material support please let us now that will do it, because your shell is just that good. Like this Mr Gallagher had won the time that you know how much I love your show.

The legislators beginning, and I tell my friends about the show and they're all much an incident like your show. They I love most about it. Is that you don't just sit there and talk. I mean all the other time showed you just somebody talking today about the fact that you actually put the victims. He put the murderers, you put the criminal, he put a man the show, so we can get their perspective. This is by far the most they replied. I am going to say. I love the by catch that found it a few days ago and is absent. We do not allow depth. You go Firstly, love old audience, you I'd love. Definitely Don't you think I am a dandy eyes. One was denied that your cell s beak a day later all parties that there's a quick word

I, like you, keep up the good work and are looking for ourselves but father he might. My name is just been listening. Report cast down or probably like a man. Maybe a little longer, and I returned a thank you for doing the show you for being so intelligent as our creative and you know, providing everyone was a show that so brilliant retaining its really enlightening, and I literally told everyone I'm. I had my sister listening to mourn my roommates for all females willing in downtown Chicago by coworkers. I can't and of good things about it might wanna tell regional can t. Thank you. It is both entertaining educational and down. I don't know what I would be doing with my mornings and evenings at remarked. The shall keep up the good work MIKE. We all appreciate it set you off

continued support. I know you all want weekly shows but were not there yet. So please keep telling your friends and please Helping us grow promise you the minute were able to do a weekly show we well in the meantime if you want to call it, and let us know what you think the number is What's one nine hundred and fifty four eight hundred and eighty nine six thousand eight hundred and fifty four How I Norman. This is MIKE with certain scale oh, are you I'm good good? we you doing the call I've you like. I know you because I've spent hundreds of efforts Reading about your case and watching videos and reporting on it as well. I don't know if you had a chance to listen to episodes five and six of our programme, but we did a a two part. Special. On your story,

like a bit of an awkward introduction to get going, but once we did nor in jump right back in the day knew something was wrong within the first pillar. Hours after Johnny was kidnapped, the reaction from the police chief? and we had five witnesses. One was forty four year old attorney and he kept telling the point. That boy didn't run away. He was kidnapped. I was there. I saw the man I saw. The car he had supplied council license. Plate chief would not listen to them police, chief, global Johnny, one way and then she went to the eye and told them he did not want them entering the case. Well, what do you think? The police chief she Voice or Vulcan money right I'm a cleaning. Why did he do that?

Ok, many years later I found out king in that whole bunch. Pedophiles. The parties withdrawing Larry king in that whole bunch pedophiles when men could go and have actually kids and the police, people northerner. That's why he came and washed out at me, trying to destroy my credibility, tried to throw obstacles. On one occasion because back then they didn't look for runaways. And finally, labeling Johnny. You run away that gave Dorothy and he took it. And then, by telling the FBI to stay out of a case, He assured that nobody was looking so when I said I was gonna hire a private investigator that and soon after me, like you, wouldn't believe

showed up at our house. She started yelling waving at me I'm scared continue you have to leave and it is not necessary to stream and the elderly. I just looked at in the nation number one. We don't ya screaming at one another in this house. Continue. You have to leave not necessary to scream and yell. Because I appreciate hearing there was no way I was gonna steal their at four: in my own home. Yet you're very strong woman. Nor indeed think that your brash nests during this obvious, Traumatic time may have put some of these policing detectives off and maybe made them not want to help you because of that. Greece will not get any trade. An investigation believe should begin with with because our police chief was a profile of. He was screwing little boys at those parties.

And the man had to move quickly there are certain shells and the whole group of men were going to these parties if that broke open, journeys kidnapping, it would have been the scandal of the century The future will mean that had titles and position that were started, I did not begin lashing out at the police chief now He came to my home and began screaming early telling me that I did not have the right to hire a private investigator well. Well, least apparent won't will treat your child and there going from a runaway one. There were five workers should South America and There was one young boy that actually found Johnny stuffed into a vehicle. He childishly FBI not to

the case when the two available law enforcement agencies that should be working the case don't watch we can accept a hire somebody, and he thought he could threaten me. Internet hiring. Detective telling me I did not have the right to do so He stood in my kitchen and he said I will the decision on this case, and I should know you will not you ve already said journeys are run away. You label can that and you are now investigating him anyway, so you're not making any decisions, I'm running my own investigation and stay out of my way and the like, by the arm and shoved in towards the front door and out on the porch. A shepherd during the house and locked it. A lot of people just power, when there's somebody that has a title. My god, we're so afraid of titles,

and they re all some kind of special power or that they put their shoes. In fact, from different than everybody else will see. Hey, don't pay any harm age, and I had absolutely no respect for titles when people believe in the way that he did there's a lot people that whole titles who are there a trench here, just people was not one of them. He was a criminal that was wearing a baron. I asked snoring GOSH why Orville Clooney successor as police chief then pick the case either when your successor trip over. He was up kinder me on that by then the case was so bungled that up work your the case effectively and I just told them. I should warn pursuing a private investigation. I really dont need you and at that point we didn't the men that I hired for former FBI agents in former police detective.

But when they retire, they often go into private investigative work and dashed, of that I hired. They knew how to get information. They had contact all over the country without those men that term I hired through the years I never would have found out what happened to my hand in two thousand six. You got a series of pictures in the mail of boys that were bound and gagged, get your certain that the boy in those Sure is your son we had the photographs authenticated by a lab at the National Centre for missing children. There's some claims of of red about those boys being Florida case instead, there were a number of pictures in the package that can guarantee one picture that had three. This detective

a claim to a case from nineteen seventy nine, but he offered absolutely no proof. No reports. Nothing in those three boys whenever never identified the other photos that were in that package that came were of my son. You members only referring to the photographic had the three boys in it on a bed appear before us here. Said one word about the on his shoulders and then is: media truck ran big national stories that the folders weren't Johnny, or that simply wasn't trail. The photos I was referring to. You were an hour journey in a video interview of Northern GOSH by none other than TED Gunderson former if the LOS Angeles FBI and someone who we introduced in episode, forty seven Maureen alludes to Johnny's father being involved with the kidnapping special arose after attorney John D,

Who was a perspective on the conspiracy of silence, documentary and wrote the book? The Franklin cover up told her that her husband at the time had visited his office with another woman saying she was his wife. Attorney would later introduce her to pull the Nazi the man whose testimony ties Johnny's case larger conspiracy. This is nor in the original TED Gunderson Video, twenty for the people all have been introduced to the woman my husband Everyone believes He looks a lot like me and with not a chance here. The attorney General Nebraska. I was her identity get her this made. My husband was very How, and why would he have an impostor

wife, Johnny, other travelling around the country with him going to speak. Wait thinking in many concerning it, took me a number of years to find out about but now that I have to know that I know the information the big question mark over my head that much What time did he play a man? why on earth within me they have an impostor always on purpose I tried it snoring gosh. If she believed her husband really was involved. You made Few claims, which I'm wondering if you still stand by has to do with your husband being involved with Johnny's kidnapping understand measures. Involve people ask me if he was, and I assume that question has not been answered, Rob baffles me.

That's what I had stood back and vision, no answer at all an ass A court case rich Paul, but now she was on the witness stand. Was housed too election of what happened, to end during Johnny's kidnapping and then the judge had a few questions at his own Paul went through the whole kidnapping how Johnny was selected all of these things. And then the judge said to Paul How did you know that China would be alone morning? and Paul, but they looked at the judge and he said trot, arrangements were made. With journeys. Batter in almost all off my chair in the courtroom. The first terminated referred back and then came from open

Do you believe that I dont know I dont know if that happened. You know, of course, because by their linger, long divorced laid eyes on an all those years, so I don't know, nobody has ever question him on that particular aspect. That's never been. My train were my statement. Other people have asked me: what was he involved? Blah blah blah errand He had all stems from what Paul but ass. He said in the courtroom. If there's been a lot with this case and one don't don't miss wells to quote issue regarding the stranger said that the terms during didn't say not, if war and or did not raise something in the way that it is presented back to me right

that's fanatic, patient that makes a huge difference should learn from but Papa Nazi is someone who you ve placed a lot of your faith in terms of his testimony of what he said to make up your everything that call holders? The weekly verify which we did We know to be exact this one, statement that he made about John Cash senior. I dont know because your wasn't there. Within the kind of person? So it may be true that may not, but I'm not going because he has not ever been kind of person. So It may be true that may not, but I am not going to go on any public forum and say that it is

because she's never been charged with anything and I'm just really not in the mood for all alive. All cases, slander. No, I would not dare to say that, but see also identifies Michael Aquino, the founder couple of set as the man who paid for Johnny's kidnapping. Do you believe that you have taken He did. I didn't. Morning the calling the colonel now, what what is it that you didn't write at this point nor in seem to want to flip the tables and change the subject. But I wasn't gonna. Let her go that easily greater I needed an answer, which is Did she actually believe so? Getting back keno. Do you actually believe, but CS claim. I know that part. Was taken from me on the hot air

New travelled him around the country for awhile and different text. If you walk, because he was eight for sex workers, And it was not ever kidnap, like our kids war and taken away forever here used and abused, and he was also used to treat other kids. And lower than to be your fault and we know now that human the king is so big, so huge, but this was the beginnings of it back when Johnny this kid now they didn't have a name for it and. Where's the colonel arrived she take. Johnny shouted out the money and paid the pit. Kidnap, Johnny Chuck. This shows for fourteen days in the house,

do you know where the housewife and we know who owned when the kidnappers were paid that trust to showing a human being, and that is human trafficking, Paul justified to all of that it'll courtroom. And the judge ruled that he was telling the truth about what happened adjoining. That was the judges ruling entire case field in two thousand and eight Robert Wadman, who was the police chief of Omaha at the time it was also involved along with our police chief He tried to control of the field he wanted to get his hands on it and have it destroyed so little They never existed. And a clear contacted me:

quite a few motions in court in order to stop white men from obtaining the sheep I often destroyed. And then all happen in two thousand eight shoulder. If someone didn't think there was any thing incriminating in the entire file now. Listen this not just the court case. This is everything, These are all statements, I need by the children Q forward, not just Paul naming names and want to destroy well, others want any incriminating evidence in their statements and fire. Why would he want to destroy him? Why was the fact important, while there there's going to be a lot of people named without a lot of evidence. In this case, one the things I wanted to ask you about was

The fact that the toy Bonner and Alicia OWN are kept out of this film their omitted and, of course, Elisha Owen had clay that robber Wadman had Shelly abused her and she also went to prison for life The stand they charge with perjury right served on sentence on record in the United States and one for that type of crime and at her age do you believe she was telling the truth originally and I've been here for you. And the baby, that she was carrying, looks exactly. Like live and he refused to take a dna test. And then wadman me, I'm calling me on my phone and threatening me.

Because I'm my website, I had a report that was written by kid Gunderson and the information all came from the newspaper if my world, Harold information regarding the case, and wide man was threatening me. He monies in so far as to hire an attorney western goin to go after me in court As I have reported, by which I mean I didn't write, the dam report can't understand it. I had a right to display it the report has been around for years and years. And I at the same time he was fooling John De Camp in court and DE can't beat him three times in a row. Will then Why do withdrew the case against me, because job again said he would defend me free of charge just for the fun of it. Because Weidman was out. It is not

He was trying to sue everybody that ever used his name and print. Will you now, we had the amendment page an equal due to say things in an all. Information that was in World Harold. He didn't see the owner to bad and they Naturally, the stories gave them For the information campaign. The kid used in part in his report. It was never anything. I wrote in one. When called my home a number of times and left trapping refugees on my answering machine and identify shellfish, rabbit wadman in a what yeah. I was going to ask you about the claim. You made that you're, I came back to visit you as an adult nodded she's. What happened? Ok, What happened here is loud between twenty seven and twenty years old, and I had done the tv show for LISA Gibbon out in California,

and the mother still show were allowed to leave a personal message for their child, hoping that may be child- might see the broadcast and I did He gave a message to Germany. Telling and why I was word he could find my address and jerk me, and then I will sharpen no matter what three months later, there was and the door it was my son. I know my own child in that that ships sail along the boys, so I won't even debate that with anybody. You don't usually you have no doubt at all- I just keep repeating yourself to your soul. If you're gonna call talk to me and then poking whole army. Nothing, I'm just not understand. I don't know what to make of northern gosh on one hand,

some of the aspects of this story are so unbelievable, and so many connections are made with such a long arc, but is relying on the testimony of convicted child molesters Paul the Nazi tied Johnny's case to the Franklin. At union scandal, but on the other hand, you have an intelligent, articulate, strong willed mom, whose heaven and earth to find out what than to her son and in doing so, has lobbied for the passing of legislation which mandated an immediate police response to reports of missing children. This became law in Iowa, in nineteen, eighty four and similar or identical laws were later passed in Missouri and seven other states doubtingly saving hundreds- if not thousands, of young lives. She says her son came back to visitor who might question and I know it was you. Johnny related when he was with me how operation worked with a safe houses were who

around the city of people that were involved. I made an appointment right after he had been there with the county attorney and I want you in, and I gave him every bit of information and to Then I received it coming and format which I did. I just, The colombian form of this, my son, the county attorney John CARE com and they had my back ever since he knew is. The information that I bought was accurate. And the only way that I gotta respond, my son who was rejected and that its voice, so there there's just so much that has taken place here and there are the credit card there there are. The people would like to spread dish, information and public and can find them all to be internet wants to turn the internet. It never goes away.

I warn back down from one thing that I set it in English. Things to do at the right time. Because? No other shop it tonight It wasn't like. It is now worthy He has a new play book and surely investigate kidnappings and that changed because of your your case. I was recently invited to account and to an early warning law enforcement breakfast and they were all members of law enforcement there. If the eyes eight police, you name it and me Then there was the host that invited me they introduced everyone. The lady sitting to my right, her nose at me and she said, you're, the one with the one word No, it's your job,

you're the one that shores, the F b I to change how they investigate the sanction older than I should go about their time, kidnapped Is it federal crime, a new people who know what you wish telling parents for years. We won't investigate your case as you have to prove your child is in danger. For the police Chief Warner help. Those is this. They used to me in my kitchen, They re came over, and so I just looked at them. One should not going to help us get out. I don't have turned to talk. You we had a chance. Talk to the director of the documentary who took Johnny David balanced and ask him what the impetus was for this film, we were at a screening, far film a prior from all points inhalers Adam at that screening

A journalist, Nick Bryant came to the screening and eat, I got your that's a good story. You got a great story for you and he proceeded to talk to us about the Franklin scale. And everything that happened in alcohol related to be assigned considerable credit union. And through learning about that story. Shall you we learned about drawing ashes story and thinking about hastily resonate with US shortages story, still makers, no one on journalists, and I think we came. Its thinking, you know like any our traditional narrative, film, good characters are following what what can be short of grasping, sorted comprehended. If Germany moving parts that are difficult to do that the future Johnny Charger stared at all. His mother, looking for my son and that's it. Story that most people could relate to and so for us

on the one hand, that was utterly tree aspect of the story that you have this month who you know your first instinct in picking it up aren't whose child disappears or abducted you that they started to combat such or fall apart? And here, this onto the outer shit. Stronger and more work on serve used at his feet war to investigate the case, and that sort of expand on his story and for us that made the story very untreated. In this movie. You take this character nor in GOSH, whose son is missing and you make her a lot more human. Then we ve seen her before He gets the nature of just the media. I think what you relegate through sound bite, you your beholden to the editor, beholden to the story, packages and producers and protect together homage always hard to define someone in a sound bite off in time. I wish you all know what they look. In their energy in the moment, gets tweet sort of get a persona

we have been through ability by shooting As in cutting a ninety nine, a feature, let someone talks and might ship would someone. I see them sharp sometimes sit there and stare and not always talk or be. Moment be seen with someone and I think, all of us. Frankly, all this human beings What's more human, when you get to shoot someone sort of in their element? And it's not all state? Interesting to me about this movie is, it does add pieces to the story it also kind of does go into certain areas, and it doesn't talk about certain things that the original story did. I met, That's by design, you know it's a car dared always think the elite out. I think for us we wanted to focus on nor even and her journey itself and from our perspective on the search for her son. I think a lot and I think you were at and we also want to include elements

The story that we felt we could justify using because it whatever evidence or otherwise existed like any other sort. Legendary stores are so many things that are sad, purported reported but our church, abject, aren't you forgive I'm so tired, leave anything out that way. Started digging deeper on and not just use surface and at the same time really know each story and and you are perspective. How much is this? Do you actually believe how much this story, because, once you start getting really deep into an it starts going to it to all sorts of crazy places, while I dont their steered a thing, I always like you do everything we had accumulated audience, there is back and forth. I would like to do the audience. I guess It is now to you- and maybe your audience- anybody listening to this afternoon seen the film I would say to them how many people acknowledge I believe that Johnny visit, ignoring not many people necessary

great. There had been an audience like when I asked a question on society's attached so much for some, not many. What asked how many people Believe Johnny was adopted a lot of people, they perhaps write and yet you saw a case where there is fine, that's been reported missing persons case in the mountains. So I think what you wanna get hammered out was even a duck. You're getting run away. Go to the stage. While she was adopted was an organ I if you're using organised, walk awarding where they will also be. Do I see a lot of those things trying to make sense reached and bad all these shading isn't? these rules and photographs and everything our him, I'm not sure but interact. And take away from what they are universal?

The photographs better in the film it out you ass the how many people think those are really Johnny Iraq, navies. All percentage figure him and another percentage dozen, and yet the photographs the photographs they are someone who's tied up and photographs like that are used as child pornography sensibly. I don't think I faking those pictures for a booby use Those are traded as forms of pornography, so the fact that there is still pretty important Erasmus whether or not a Johnny. I asked Director David balancing if he him I believe there was an organised conspiracy behind the kidnapped. Of Johnny GOSH. Well, I book, I, I think, if you just think about the pride seemed so there's the seat in the film were you ever had shattered and that you were right

modern witnesses saw multiple people strange. Looking people sensible, cornering Johnny what you would getting his papers for delivery, show if you That is more than one person involved, then that by definition is organised. It's either alone, pedophile or alone sociopath. Does it for its motto impartially that's organization What extent we did organ beyond a few people or nationally across the country. It is harder to storage, and I gotta admit this movie really had me glued to the strain its store nearly well done documentary and, if you know anything about this case, it'll pieces that you ve never seen before, and I think every sort scale fan will enjoy it. Regardless of what you think of this case, we are launching a theatrical on the man campaign whereby

through an organization called gather she. Eighty eight yeah, so gather ass. You can go online and start a screening, your neighborhood, basically very liberal country than if enough people from the greens and screening. That brings me to what you don't hear you that right now and in the end, the plan, you think I'm ones while at Johnny Doctor will include links to the gather us page where you can request a screening of who took Johnny in your own home town at the show notes for this episode at sword and scale dot com Going to do it for another episode of sword and scale, remember I'll, be at the whiskey and rye in Fort Worth Texas. On Thursday July 30th at seven p, DOT M come out and say hello. If you can eat, tails are on our Facebook page at Facebook, dot, com, sword and scale of see you there and until next time, Stacy

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What does she hated me? So? Might she found my stepmother blinded and then was caught making a plan to attack me with my stepmother. He shows up to my gallery and he's wearing a space suit. He looks at me and he goes you look like just a rabbit and lily from the fifth element hasn't. He looks at me very intense, leading US stock. You will hear what the commissioner will do anything or not. We carry about the crime strong. We applaud obligation, predator who's, been stuck in me for forty four years was starting to really interfere with my life and my freedom, a lot more than he had been one of those random messages on my idea. It was like I'm coming and I'll see you on this day I was responding and then it was like a verification of, like I said all of a sudden, I hear a knock at the door. I opened the door and there they exploit something element standing in front of me with a backpack, and he looked at me and he said a new era of panic because it isn't Larry followed me my work play and he grabbed me for men to the door and with thy Unblock they unblock may body blow me, I'm due to Time Jamie Baby strictly stocking mares. On January, we subscribe one apple tallgrass spot of my words like God. This person will stop texting news of course,

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