« Sword and Scale

Episode 76

Finally, an update episode! This one fills in the details of what has happened with the Justin Ross-Harris, Holly Bobo and Aaron Hernandez cases, with special guest Cathy Ruson from CourtChatter.com. We also get schooled by a listener on crucial pieces we missed in the Andrea Yates story. We talk to friends of the Blancharde's who knew them best, and cap off the show with a living legend in the field of true-crime: none other than former host of Dateline's To Catch a Predator, and new host of Crime Watch Daily, Chris Hansen. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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Hey did you know, there's a place ring it, although it is true Krim headlines five days a week called sorting scale daily and its hosted by me, Rain Williams, Maneater Friday, we break down all the craziest case is going on in the country in a round the globe. If you weren't notes going on before everyone talking about it subscriber sorted scale daily on Apple podcast, Spotify Sticker tune in or anywhere he was near podcast and stay safe, sorted Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listen mergers, russian. Is it back I think we have a social responsibility to at some point.
Allow police and prosecutors to do a parallel investigation for the sake of justice, and I think Also to the viewer. We owed some closure, and to see these guys. Just walk away did not provide that now. Yes, in those first to investigations or police and prosecutors, we're not involve a lot of those cases. Ultimate were prosecutor but in the others virtually everybody was prosecuted and justice I welcome to sword and scale season three absurd. Seventy six, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real
you know in our ploughing ahead. Through this season, we haven't taken much time to look back and update you on cases we previously covered. So today we're gonna do just that in a slightly lighter version of Jordan. Scale will touch base on one of the strangest cases we ve ever covered. It was the murder of dd, bland shard by her daughter, the appropriately named Gypsy lost touch base on hot car, dad just in Ross Harris the murder of Holly Bobo and kick off. The other fell season with Ex New England Patriot Errand Hernandez, with the help of Cathy Rousillon from court chatter, dot com palazzo touch on some of the missing pieces of the Andrea Yeats CASE and welcome for the first time, a very special guess. We heard in the intro. If you didn't immediately recognized voice, it's not other than Chris Hansen, a guy. You never want to see standing in the kitchen stay with us.
How are you crazy, I do this historic time. Ok, perfect! I'm very sick right now, but I'm trying to get through this. We begin with a story. We first told way back in August of twenty fourteen on episode, twenty four at number, and that is the hot card death of twenty two month old toddler named Cooper. Author weirdos is dad left them in the car Forever, seven hours, his behaviour before, and after the death, but the murder charges by prosecutes. Recently there was a change, a venue granted. What was that about? Yes, so it's true, I was ready to begin this path spring. They were Injurie selection and caught county, which, in the Atlantic area where the. Did crime happen and they were at the end of June, reflection and almost had their jury.
Then, when they did fan mail, emotion, fortune, the value they told the judged that after they ve been questioning all these jurors potential jurors, all along that didn't think they could get a fair trial and what we have been witnessing jury was wildlife stream. We were all watching watchmen, we ve been witnessing was a lot. A lot observers were saying things like I believe, he's guilty. I think he purposely killed his son. The media had their heads that saturated that area. Since two thousand fourteen with this story, and there had been a lot of comments from potential journeys and even though they have been waiting, those out that events still felt that the ones that the judge had kept in, because the judge to a train rehabilitate some unseen. But could you keep an open mind? Could you still be impartial down the ones that
they could. She would keep him in the poor, so defence said, look at weekends, here so at the end about three weeks- are picking a jury she granted to granted them. In the case of annual everything stopped, and that was in April It seems like a huge waste of money. They I read somewhere that they spent up to about an hour of perjurer, trying to make sure that each one was impartial, why the time they waited out, they had been all this long and detailed jury questionnaire that they fell down. Both sides had to go through all of those and about atomic we started questioning the got down to the wire and question the ones they wanted to that with a long process. This whole thing is called, a lot of money. Now they ve moved the trial three hundred miles away and every but he's gone, bear the judge, the defence attorneys the DA's office staff. Everybody's move there for maybe two months
and now they gotta start the whole jury selection process all over again from scratch, and that began this week. So now. Jury selection started again, What county is three hundred miles away Fine and impartial jury seems like theirs already been too jurors that have been released, excused but more than that, what they started with was jurors. That said, right off the bat, they couldn't sir hardship reason which could be. We already have a vacation scheduled, employment would be impossible for me to serve honest jury. My daughter's getting married thing like TAT, so they started what those types of earth and that, as far as we ve gotten today, star with bringing the rest of the men in groups of about fifteen and their beginning question them now in group set tat. Do you know
defend aunt, you knowing the witnesses, in this case, in their starting to go down the list of witnesses other just now getting two groups. There has been two hundred and fifty potential that county salmon to this case, and so really today, starting be a initial questioning. That one euro got excuse because they had a trip plan to Dolly. Would the the end, we have tried to see- and you don't want to mess Dolly matter let's find out a little bit more about this case, because there has been so many hot car deaths that which were obviously, accidents but most of the time, but this, one in particular is suspect, and a couple of different reasons for that, first of all, it seems like
I was making some curious online searches the days before Cooper stuff. That is why it is going to be. The centre of this case, for the state of Georgia is Savior leading up to this day, and they contain that here I contend that he had online searches. How now the searches are gonna be key, because what has been widely reported and what may actually come out in trial could be a little different, but this just have to do with how I takes for maybe things to die in a car, maybe not children but what's been reported is researching hot car gap?
on the internet and also the internet searches that had been this has been. The big headline news is that he wanted to live a child free life and visited websites. That centred around living a child free life, a meme, its debts be an interesting case, because you know people do forget things, especially behind the wheel. In fact than the governor of Georgia recent to a look again campaign to prevent these type of accidents? Yes, and we are seeing They numbers of parents and grow parents forgetting their children in the cars I dont know. If it's me reported more now orbit happening more now, but we are seeing a reported. All the time of parents in their children. It may be that we're living more and distracted age now with our phones with whatever is happening and our lives, but I think that
actually work in his favour, because you're bring their personal experience then too, that jury room, but that is causing laws. He'll be enacted at least proposed, and You know campaigns, campaigns like look before you get out, or you know, there's all kinds of reminders out there like little cute, like Women put your purse in the backseat when you get in the car there. For you know you not going to forget your purse, so don't forget your child things like that. This case is going to be. Fascinating from a trial watching perspective the middle. The public has him convicted and guilty, but I would say this case is not that cut and dried. Would you say that it doesn't really matter what veni they select, because this case has been reported so widespread nationally, especially by Nancy Grace, yes up But the dearth will have heard of this case, but I
You believe that be where they are in this city of Brunswick. Gwen County and I looked it up on it. I am not familiar with that area and aid. If you know it's far away, it's it's clear out border there. Has been interviews with the clerk there in that court have that they were we are of saturated. Are familiar with the case they you know they know the name but they're, not as in inundated with the press on the case there so going to help him, but never heard of it in the fate of Georgia, especially it's not gonna happen. The journey I've heard of this case, but, like I said, just turn on the news or just read an article. If, here you know alive, you heard of cases of people leave their kids and cars, so I think, that's all was going to come into play and some people can't fathom that guy you're goin to set up and premeditated lay kill your child? That way?
can be very interesting, he's also a defendant, that's easy to dislike, because we cannot forget the sexting charges in this case right, you sexting a sixteen year old minors fifteen year old and look I go under with an open mind. I tried very hard to going with an open mind. I haven't convicted, almost charges Ivan, He had the rights they have got port for those charges, so you know they're going to bring in those and pictures that he sent back and forth with these girls and this not a likeable guy. This is really not even a good guy, so you got that I defended behind that table. They'll people Why can people want and convicted in separate that malice murder is hard and a lot of people's eyes, and I wonder
if the jurors again be able to do that, and the defence fought very hard to have the trial separated to have the charges separated out and have a separate trial on the sexting charges. For that very reason and the state was successful in keeping them together. Yeah Guarantees so let's get this next one holly about this was just a minute of a case and its taken almost forever to to get anywhere. Agri Adams was arrested in connection with her death. Yes, it still taking forever to get anywhere with that. So how, above all went missing? twenty eleven
and now we have three people charged with her a martyr so we have a case in Austria Agri, Adam and Veal, and Adam Adams, our brothers. How, above all with the nursing student and went missing in April, two thousand and eleven now Finally have a trial date set for April at twenty seventeen for six years, And as the commission that the judges insisting that day is going to happen and both sides call it optimistic, also the judge this recently this path month said that he's We d grab a change of genuine that case because they were nay court at the last hearing that you can't go anywhere in that area without seeing post, Polly, Holly Bobo still up ribbon. Tight around trees, Bumpersticker Earth on people with cars. It's like we gotta be moved and it's also- I mean it it this case
carry those overtones of small town living, Bobo atoms lived fifty miles apart, its reported that Holly Baba's mother was once Zachary Adams teacher in Elementary school right it's very much Malta living. So the judges already said he's going to move this out, it's gonna be moved out, defendants for likely not be pride together, so this is going to be a long process on that area and separate trial, it seems like Dylan, was charged because his Agri Adams had some loose lips behind bars. Is that right, right, right, Zachary Brother Dylan, who was already serving time in prison on federal firearms charges, was directions to the Holly Bobo disappears after Zachary to pass along a message to him with the help of another inmate behind bars. The message was a threat, he's the one who started this shit and if you shut his mouth It will be the whole beside her. We may not have the charges, we have had their,
began talking iron bars- and you know there has been a lot of information released in this case, and so we didn't know a lot and we still don't really know a lot. We ve been some he came down and we don't know everything that he talked about. We now he did talk and not for a charge. More charges came from, but here that really gotten a deal, because now all of them are charged with premeditated murder, murder in the perpetration of aggravated kidnapping and aggravated rate and they're gonna seek the death penalty on all three of them so I'm not sure what deal he got for talking, but I won't the latest development that has come out of this case. Is the defence shows up with them arms shell in the last hearing and claim There is a possible new suspect in the case, they claim that they are going.
The mounds of abbot if either way for Kara Bites your computer person there's four terabytes of evidence, they're trying to wade through in this case the defence attorney for Zachary Outcomes alleges that this has withheld evidence from the defence and I have not heard about a new suspect besides the three. Yes besides a three year and that Who was the previous day on the case by the way we moved himself this this case it. This is why this case is taking so long, The previous day aim out startle had a conflict with the Tennessee Bureau investigations who, with on this case tv I remove themselves in this case because of it now, finally remove himself and appointed a special prosecutor who them but to get up to speed, so that in this case, is drags on and on
The agri items attorney accused of math style of withholding evidence from them. She says that she's going through the mound amounts evidence. She says that I made a statement that sent home Bobo was on her period at the time of the reduction. There were the law but dna evidence in Zachary items home. Well, Nobody has ever heard that information nobody's ever heard anything about her being on her period and. The agri, aren't attorney says she had not seen that evidence shows no. About that and she claimed there are missing TB. I reports and that Medical examiner refers to materials that have not been handed over to the defence, and she says that there also is referred to in those reports are possible, different suspect, and what from what? can ascertain a suspect have never been cleared by the tv. I am
government has more evidence of his guilt than anyone else now, of course, is it that the journey speaking so but this is their job, but now that whatever we are talking about a few. Could this other man be, but the two defendants journeys are not complaining, about discovery turned over there. It did not have any motion before the court and when they were ass base. I that the state has been completely. Operate with them, and then had seen area, and they wanted to see. So it's very interesting they all three ten don't seem to be on board with there could be a little bit to smoke and mirrors here from the defence attorney spoil. You know it is a pity that
Let's touch on this case, because we haven't really covered around us, but we just kicked off the edifice football season, and this was an expatriate tightened. Air land is who was convicted, of killing someone, Odin, Lloyd, any sense to life in prison, but now he's on trial, again yeah how he is going to be facing trial now for a double martyr. That happened then, so we happened for the Odin Void, Lloyd, murder, but
that's two gaiters didn't know about double martyr until they were investigating the Odin, Lloyd, murder, Heath, accusers, fatally shooting to Man Daniel. I Peru and suffer media for Tato outside of arson, night club and two thousand twelve and Lloyd kid martyr happening to death and thirteen, but this is a year before so this guy's a football star and he's gonna killing people right and the almighty martyr. This is what prosecutor today happen because of what Odin Lloyd knew about the two thousand twelve double murder tat: how a tied vote
even though he had been convicted and sets a life of Lloyd? He is still now going to face a trial on double murder that happened the year before that really lead to the murder about Lloyd. It turns out this senseless murder happened because of a spill drink. These two man. This is what the prosecutor will say that accidently filled a drain on errand Hernandez in a night club and that led to the events of that later on that night, after they, everyone left the night club. An errand Hernandez then throw via has actually be and shot at them out the window and killed them could spill Drouet right
So this is hard some star power behind her. Now he did have his famous turn things that we have a lawyer and they have my frame replaced by no other than Jose by half the lawyer that represent head forward a Hoss mom as she's been come to now carefully Anthony a lovelier progress here, mom. So
Cases headed the trial when one, when will we expect to get jury selection. In this case, though, his prowess TAT four February, we will be seen and we ve already. If we have already seen, can hearings get started in that way of how they buy add on board, which that got the media frenzy going and the little funny side note it. Then they laughed hearing I fired has only been and maybe to hearing by think and then the last hearing he stood up. The judge has do you know them stand up and announced himself to the court. He stands up and announces himself and says that he is there to represent Aaron Rodriguez. He says the wrongly I all over twitter and was written up in a cup few articles and all that and Aaron Fernanda thought that was hilarious himself and laughed about it about the few w try its name right
now? He also that's what I'd know how they buy as about licence to practice in Massachusetts because he's afforded attorney so he has special permission bout. It can work that way so he's being allowed to represent him in Massachusetts. Well, I watched the guilty verdict and the sentencing and Hernandez appeared completely unfazed to fight in court, while the verdict was being red diesel gets the severity of what is done here, but this is My feelings on Aaron Hernandez, have said all bad He really asked Gangbanger that could play football and and hidden got his attitude and now he's just a game: gang member, that within Brither answered nothing phases and he doesn't have any remorse for anything
the aim and that these two in the night club God I was coming to them and no one method with there, and I love God. I was coming to them. With Lebaron Miranda, here We now hit there'd been letters have come out of prison bed. You now that we ve Certainly there purposely leaked or whatever that he writes than he really is to use the word, That's what comes to mind when I think of Erin Hernandez, Thank you so much work in our listeners catch up on. Trials in and see them love. You can find everything on court. Chattered outcome thick somewhat: Cathy thanks MIKE
about two years ago, we devoted an entire episode absurd, twenty four on mothers who kill their children and, of course touched upon the most infamous case. That fits this description, and that is the story of Andrea Yeats. While this week a new fan name, Samuel, called us up on Skype to let us know that we missed a whole big piece of this story, so here too, hello, Samuel, Haven Samuel. MIKE I don't get it. Are you I'm? Alright, I'm recording this. Ga, I expected you to live. I feel like
I was as we are talking to you. As I just heard you are my radio, your baby, radio, my radio you're, my are your partner. The hard thing a man, I'm gone, I'm good. I appreciate you call me back, your story is interesting. That did not know any that really it's it's I saw it on some random. You tube, video. I was looking up stuff, another cuz, I heard about it probably want to Wikipedia right away and then somehow got to some Youtube. Video call The thing is called like: mugs God, mothers madness and it was about it. Like a forty minute programme, it was apparently Encore TB and
it's about the Andrea case, and one section about it was. She and rust. He went that. I believe I was her husband them attended a church. That was run by one of Rusty's friend from college. I thank him He had some very radical ideas about women, and how? I guess they were there. And of Eve who was the original source forests and all women have some sort of witchcraft in them. So. This is happening when she's having all the kids and her post depression is propelling into who oppose part of psychosis- and here I believe, a couple suicide I'm sitting there, and so this is all happening wilder attending this very rare.
A call and outspoken church, run by the war and accuse I believe their names were Why do I heard the saw that I heard your podcast damn I assumed, you just cut it out at the time. Tell me about the word. I d say I never heard of this story before a man the called himself back, eventually it it seems like it and in a Youtube video. I showed videos and because I believed when I get a name wrong by Mr Nike or father. When I get to know what you like to go by Tom would be enough. A square with his family. His whole family was Volvos him and his wife travelling around the country with there three children. I believe teaching me
is really radical thing. This is Michael WAR Nicky and his daughter, Sarah, in one of their strictly produced Youtube videos. We're
people, sometimes ask us about church of happiness. They won't ask those, though today, like lay so lucky glacis his recovery, size and say cities will give us the heel of contact the grandest anything it was gonna. He Susan. You know I like this and we are not against church of Erasmus other North as Thomas contract lightly. With we are the sum of legislation, we are grants, hypocrisy that establish like equal pay in any kind of deception. If one for my dangling did, you must realize we don't live in simple terms, this is gonna, think, went back in no way be moved and no more than a year that Cynthia we could live in days of great deception. Maybe wasn t ass, they moved you and I we must explore deception. Others enamels k export in illegal. Listen to this weighs a scooter. Everything I say give you everything I believe dark. A girl in the world is that you must not listen to others, know their business models them ass. You must find out what guy says DNS time anyway. Ok, leasing, views and super loud. You must increase or something what Jesus DNS gazed down by silence. I look at me said what a preacher tells you know, look at these a ready, but all I said the lady, but would induce us himself says, but ok, look. Haiti's eight cases means no. Second, I see music that is harmful to such as those in your report, because the deception is so grave, or even one guy who has done grandly. These people who call themselves preachers, killer, hands again saying just numbers stories are pretty got always they will do anything to defend their castle. They were, they would like assent,
in squares and it would be wearing a mass of like it, a demon phase Cindy, saying that you now all sinners are going to how you know you walked down to a cargo, and you see these guys. You know in the street and outcome but what it reminded me of like a crazy guy, but it was his whole family doing it, and I guess the the eight were friend with them somehow rusty, convinced her too. Go to this as well and it a ruined really a lot of things for the family to be on. That sort of the things about preaching were, if you're, giving in to luxuries like houses, our cars, yours somehow contributing to Satan's plan against God and so They ended up moving to a smaller house,
and then the actually ended up moving into a like, I said in our view, with at least three of the five children. The family had Bible study three nights a week in the living room because He had not found a church. He liked. The famine lived on a bus for while which they bought from none other than travelling preacher, Michael or inaccurate rusty had bought into Michael WAR, neck teachings regarding the faults of organised religion, and although he did not completely agree with the extreme views of his spiritual mentor, Andrea moved by the right. Or burn zeal wound up exchanging letters with the preacher at his wife for years after they bought the bus or inaccurate the role of women is derived from the sin of eve and that bad show and come from bad mothers? Sometimes life seemed a parallel. His rage, kids on the road home schooling- God Fearing at one point. She asked
lucky to write a letter to help convert or catholic parrots. Once worried her parents what had run? he got her into, but even more He grew concerned with her She with scripture. Still he said a guy cannot really complain that his wife is reading the Bible too much ado. Sixteen laid him. Ninety nine rust found Andrea shaking and chewing her fingers the next day she Did they commit suicide by overdosing on pills? She was admitted to the hospital and prescribed antidepressants, but soon after her release. She begged her husband to let her die, she held a knife up to her neck. Once again, she was hospitalized. And given a mixture of medications including hauled on an anti psychotic drug or condition and immediately and Austin move the family into a small house for the sake of her health. She appeared temporarily, stabilized June twenty two thousand one. She would miss radically drown her five children each named after a bible
figure out. Why I was going to say I don't want to place blame on anybody, but rusty was you know I mean he saw her going through this postpartum psychosis and saw her progress, hang ensue in own, worse and worse day, suicide attempts by they both continue to be in situation and putting themselves in more situation that having more children and digest to bury harder than maybe they believe it I mean, and it's pretty wild and I I don't want it put down their beliefs of all ages and interesting. Part that I that I learned about- and I thought that wow the it was a kind. A perfect storm in some way yeah rusty, was kind of attacked. After this thing happened. By the media and the public. It seemed like
yeah. I mean it's. It's really tough situation, her for do I mean he lost all his child? I mean there is no denying that and that, like the worst thing possible, you get up and go to work one day and you lose your entire family can't even possibly fathom how that how anyone could even survive through that. How we even standing is amazing and I don't think you're. He really deserve to be attacked because he was a grieving father You know, I don't think he ever thought that anything he was doing would lead to that at the end. Don't at the same time you just go: how did you not see this coming. I mean yeah it is frustrating us raiding. You look at. The whole thing like come on. Man is obviously very unstable. Yes, yes, and
Again, you know we see what we want to see. Some time and I think he was there. Do out and I'll. Do that? turn a blind eye when sometimes it's just too hard to deal with. Some of us are probably doing right now. Yeah yeah, Definitely with some of the with some of the supply on your part, ass podcast, it's I can kind of understand it thousand twelve Andrea Yeats, was approved to attend church service once a week outside the curving state hospital, she's, very spiritual person. Read the Bible constantly. Now her doctor say she's made such progress. That they'd, like too reigned? Her request to attend church outside facility once a week her defeat. Lawyer, George Barnum says
congregation has agreed to let her come. I know you were her defence lawyer and you certainly are an advocate for her, but this is a woman, who drowned five of her children exclaimed. Why on earth should she be allowed to do anything, let alone attend church? It's my belief fears that, if you're not mentally culpable, then you heard me responsible criminally for those acts. Are you all concerned that she might be negatively influenced by the scripture sitting in church. Again, no because Andrea was ill at the time that these the parameters of her delusion, which happened to be the images that that warrant a and his group, would fall upon her ill mind. She's. Not that way, you know not to make light of this story at all, but a color. I'd be the new trend of people ditching their normal single family homes and moving in
The tiny house as popular? by shows such as tiny house hunters tiny. Hunting and tiny ass, big living makes me wonder if living in a three hundred and forty square foot, bus control, two Andrea Yeats Psychosis and eventually the murder of children, start a new tv show tiny. Murders Happens after these people change their lifestyle. Make a couple tiny house for ninety days filled with cameras until one of them kills the other,
I shook my head on the phone.
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after the murder allow of lies began to unravel, for almost Your entire life, Gypsy imprisoned in her mothers, deceit forced to a wheelchair and convinced that she was terribly sick. Gypsy was ten years old at the time, was never allowed a normal life, never loud to have a boyfriend or to drive a car or to get a job. Instead, she served as a meal ticket for her mother DD until the who thing exploded in a brutal acts of violence. Story is currently being made into an HBO documentary. We were able to find a close friend of dvd to try to inside her head and find out what the Hell was going on in their minds to that s, voice I'm your daddy way back in my day, Yes, we were ass, render like sisters very, very close. How did you first me at school?
It grew from their Tommy about duty. How would like he and time she could be as we for bees. Yours very Hawaii, yes MA am no man like my mom and dad should always very, very polite there Besides to her, that was colonel shocking back then, but I just always just blew it. His like the disease He could be very like conniving, a minute rotate. This was you said this was in school, but how old? Were you guys that at this point what met her eyes without Levu Cycle and what we really become called friends until after we both graduated. She, You waited a year before me, We met after that. So you knew even backed and that he was kind of manipulative. Oh, yes,
I'm going with her bike on Charlie when her dad on their boat. Which, mostly by her house dance her mom was very a lot like daddy. He was a stranger to me. Then you could say she was very like baby. But they are far from the tree. I guess you could say, but here come on, which I mean a very sweet woman, but you can see that They were a lot like a I mean when data even said that the house was trying to get us there again, just I'm gonna worshippers. Trying to get us into their call, and I never seen any evidence average birth. He pretty much, I'm sorry. We can advance that there were kind. Do
on occasions, convince you was after you. Yes, she said that kid. Show me that they had found evidence their neighborhood tat, a dog went missing or something that was always something I went. I will try not to believer then he would pass me and tell me Your life could be in danger. You need to take this seriously. He even had the whole town go golden were convinced that they had a town meeting the cage, the pirates, how to protect their kids from the cult well it wasn't- he withdrew, got my moms. Mom called my mom to get us to go to the leading that she said it was important, Where the danger, so my mom said we to go tat meeting because is very serious. So we went to the meaning and it was in one of the gold remain amid a spoon have a carrier and they talk to us about how to protect, I want to call it and if we saw any sign what you know the cops or somethin
we'll talk about him, convinced that there was a cop I will be in the choir together one be riding where, if I wouldn't be there back in an hour. Do a downer he'd acts with me to dig for something in my purse like lead, glass, some day, why be digging up earth and when I be Dana Perky go up. The road And in our right daddy, what was that you set out somebody I do I was on their own I turn around and I'd say really: wants you dead, oh that white power by their order, black car would have a car. Was. I just asked and it was always when I wasn't looking that that will happen, So did you get the sense that she was the logical liar, yeah, oh yeah, Did you know this or the whole time that you knew her? No, I realized it he'll after astounding friend, where I couldn't cake.
I realize all the lies that saying and when it gave me as I can deal with the same or an innocent, you'll find. Did you have a kind of argument or any kind of blow out? I did. Time when we finally sobering friend to verify for years. We call it is to MRS Debbie Jarred dear count. Then we would. We want to conquer together but when I finally here that I could take it anymore I was going on a date with my boyfriend, Edward went to the movie theater and she caught with him? and told him tat. I was just using him and that I was embarrassed. Be saying where that I'm grateful always go out to place at night in, all kind of staff, so I was waiting at the movie. Gate appeared to show up and he never showed up
and went home again call him to see where he was and then he said. Well, He told me all of this about you that you don't want to be seen with me and I'm like that's, not true, and I said I don't believe it would tell you that what she actually gets a dinner call at another way him aunt Rachel. He said I called her and she that was our hands had called her and bad. I want to be with me and I'll catch up like that, so figured out lying and was heard. That was only he had lied before and after about an hour meeting about it. I'll call her back, and I said I'm done with you- I don't know, Can you do it? You are you do, as I am just leave me alone- it's so convoluted its it doesn't make any sense. It is bizarre how why would you lie about all these little dumb things that have no consequence whatsoever and then make
there are huge lie about a daughter well yeah. His lawyer, seeing her at two a spare hours therewith via my has when he was getting treatment or something- and I was There is in the cafeteria, saw her or passing on the street and give him with in a wheelchair, thou, went out in the street him them and us I don T know how you know she hardly issues. I got you as to how Gypsy how you doin, and he told me no gets. He had been an accident when her dad on a motorcycle, SL wearing. She said again, very rarely heard and he's not arguing that it happened and as it so he hears you got what you don't know what it's like? One need, not even acknowledging that it happened. She said yet it's horrible, she said, talk to him, the more because of that and as it stood
innovation because of that, because of that, Zack, blacksmith hysteria, and then we get taught them away here wanted to know about my kid: that's how I was doing and in which Party ways and I seeing her again- and it was a couple of years later, He told me tat year. He had cerebral palsy. Really. Is your that's horrible? It's like, oh, my god, I'ma pray profile and then Lastly, in her again later cupboard- later in our talk to her couple years later- and he said something that gives you didn't, how terrible policy that it was the matter does he like less about this fearsome the night at well and then before our this happen like in December here before the murder happen, everything I contact with those things about a huge on my mind, and I thought it gives you had base were so
I can't I her hurt your with thinking. It was carefully than I here too, as it does on mom have Facebook and then she and said. I see it. We could have used to call me Susie hi. It's me daddy and then I would like to get Where do you can call me? She said at the snow makes our server. Not that good. So I'd love to call you in tat, jabbing get back, friendship again that she said I miss you. Can I make talking we use it. You know, please call me: and I said, ok I would lead that and then I thought about am I. I don't want to get brought up in her I realise that you still doing it. Though I've never contact her. And after that, and there her that here get out Oh, my god. Oh shit, a contact her, but let me ask only when you first found out about the murder was-
first reaction shock. I was kindly, but then, when I found that take care that they were poor thing all over the new them Gipsy with her, I don't think with her our neighbours that woman beat but that's not be because the life I have seen it he wasn't that overweight wait, very small, and I like ass, not media are no good ideas and I showed my mom the figure that she said. Would that woman I don't know, but that's not eating, and then later realise. Oh, my god. That is her. What about gypsy? Did she looked the same ass? He remembered oh yeah yeah the same Well like when I had listened to them there. Care that you may? Well? daddy's voice I started crying present brought back memories of then guarantee that our new, where he was good light when we had, when together going to convert them,
going out ways to go out to the greenhouse altogether, and we honest bearing he, she was very sweet when she wanted to be, but a few lost her well you don't wanna, be aimed at the other end. What do you think about? the case in general. Do you think that gypsies be prosecuted for audio now. Could he talk your gear seats, so bad. I can't believe the daddy, I knew I can't believe she would do that. Her child, but then again I think yeah, I can't believe you did that her cowed, they get what you wanted, Do anything sheep and pigs what she wanted. Number at what is meant by the agency, like this. Like a lot of the lies. You're telling me about which don't seem to have an end goal in mind,
this one seemed about to be about greed. Yeah wish what do you remember her being materialistic in any way or always wanted to have a things alive and the finer things alive, but grief I'm going manner her dad words hard your drive to give them they had an her mom was very like sickly, Camino, her dad what for her and give her the money, there. She needed, as only he stayed home and take our her long. Well, I wonder if that were the whole idea hatched yeah. It should be An unambiguous sheet in love with the finger of night, ranger and heating, said that he had he had what school convinced tat they were in a relationship rule and we went to night Ranger concert and after the concert was over, we went around
Where do we come out, I had to go to their tour burst through the back door and we waited for them to come out and he had a couple of other people there waiting too, and she gave me the. He then make sure when they come out Grab him and you take a picture, make sure it's a good taker, no problem. So when he came out, he was ever since you like, hey, it's me, Dede oh hi, how you doin, and then he paused, to appreciate him certain care. After when we got to pick you develop, He went around and said: look we are re, he appeared. The proof is a bigger the biggest academic arthur, but he acted like he was here. Some groupie, but he acted like They knew each other all their eyes. Sorry, I caught her in That's so weird! That's it! A strange story: everybody
it's called a new new, oh yeah this year's anyway has tabled a thing: I'm not rank you're like relay and Cuba how he would ring thinks is go yet. This is what he said. Man call me last night, but their own tour. Here I mean they're towards public all over the place, but he would say by Golly, aberrant you're here so call me after the concert in that, by that she would say, no Some people believe there are a lot of people in, but then, after that take care. She like one hears the proof. I just hope kissing get the help that desperately needs because of what they did to her aunt? He could live a normal happy help delight. While we talk to duties friend too. Figured. We also talk to gypsies friend this Leah Woodman see what has happened since July We spoke, he was supposed to
go to trial for her splendid thing, mother, be and prevent nor like the death, but then whatever they were going to decide to do, then like want to ruin the hearing, change. Your beliefs are guilty. And then now she should sentence tenure from prison and follow up as far as everything, those with her sentencing so far and because she's Serbia and will only be like manner and prevent them from it. I received a letter from her with a couple of months ago. I keep talking about. I want to respond and I keep telling one, how I am going to respond, but it's been really difficult. Hence the down and think of what I want to say, because
When the letter she is asking me about her, she had found out that I am engaged and so sure that king for all, the deed about that- and you know just normal conversational up that way. Typically talk about an hour trying to decide like what it is worth making it so hard for me to respond, and, unlike ultimately it comes down to It just makes everything more real and my great now without responding it's kind of help, keep it to wear it. But having quite hidden. So when a word from the letter, it'll just make it all the more real, then a little difficult yeah, I can imagine a mean, to come into your my letter, writing to someone who killed their own mother the iron having heard a lot of it, details of the crime scene like that. It should. My blowing bill.
But the ten years. Do you think that light sentence for murder, do you think that that's appropriate. How about another thing? I'm not completely certain! Now, just somewhat, and heard your time she's been unveil air locally shoot them to have credible ground from being in their shipping. The way she carries herself is much different than what she would prisoner about like even before all this happen, and then it seems, more. I don't you Europe develop a lot more in prison and to Enable- I have a little bit more. I hear that shoes finding new ways to try to violate make up and things like that or whatever they can use in prison as make up she's been playing with her hair. But now, like you, her shoulders
And she things really big, gorgeous curls, she held in her hand. She looks much healthier and so on I think in the ten years or more, I guess now. Nine show only com you to the end, you know I'm cool, that she can like receive member of education, thereby also receiving like any sort of therapy that she can get in other. How we cannot deal with whatever happened before the martyr, all the way up to the actual murder its words here that prison might actually be good for some yeah. That's what makes it I'm a bad about it, but she. She symphony doing even like a million times better than what she was doing out by the present- and so are you tend to favour I think it's actually doing person good being there and
just hoping that you know the remaining nine near she just continues to grow. Unlike learn more about her, so am I- but after prison sentence is that that she continues to receive the hope she needs an attractive preceding rob neighbour. In very supportive of the helping her after her term in prison I love it. I just hope that, and for helping her, he said of hurting. It all out really get to talk to someone who you ve been watching on tv for years and years and years, my chance this week, please welcome Chris Hansen,
first, let me say that it's an honor to have you on the show, your basically legend in the field of your crime. In my own mind, I know you do a new show and I'd love to talk to you about that. But first I like to go back to Everyone knows you for which obviously to catch predator and ask ask you questions about that? Absolutely how'd! You get involved with their programme. You know it started with a conversation I had with a friend of mine whose a reporter in Detroit, And he told me about the online washed, our group perverted justice. I started to think if we could use their decoys online and combine that with our ability to wire polished with hidden cameras microphones, we could actually infiltrate this crime. We knew was taking place. We do adults were you know soliciting minors, research, online and bad things were happening, but you know you ve gotta, get incited to tell the story, and so I pity and they let me do it- and I was driving to the first tat location in that they draw island,
no stuck in traffic on their drugs like bridge, I thought jeez. What? If nobody shows up what I have just wasted tens of thousands of dollars than that which money Damn I producer causes as where the hell are you two guys showing up and in forty five minutes get here and so was nonstop net first investigation. You know we had seventeen guys including in New York City Fire fire, while trying to hook up with a young teen border over such there. Their true cramps shows, which cut across the line between reporting and activism. John washes, unsolved. Mysteries comes to remind it awards. Just not. Not just in forming but also and entertaining, but also try new product We catch these criminals When you first started to catch a predator As a journalist where you comfortable with this dual role, I was comfortable with it. You know, if you talk to somebody with you,
one of the and the pointer institute, or something like that and in any other Wagner figure that we ultimately worked closely with police and prosecutors. Disagree. I think we have a social responsibility to at some point. Allow police and prosecutors to do a parallel investigation for the sake of justice, and I think, also to the viewer. We owed some closure, and to see these guys, just walk away, did not provide that now. Yes, in those first to investigations or police and prosecutors, went on board, a lot of those cases ultimate were prosecuted. But in the others virtually everybody was prosecuted and justice. Research. And as a civilian you're, not really bound by the same rules of entrapment as authorities, are, you feel the show ever came close to kind of crossing that line, absolutely not! We ve always been absolutely its parent, with our methodology.
Then vigilant about making sure that, beyond decoys, follows certain protocol. They never approach somebody first there always posing ass, a thirteen or fourteen year old or twelve year old child potential. Predator has to make the first approach and the spectre of such and that's the way it's always been. So even if we were law enforcement, you would never raised the level rise to the level of entrapment in its ever been used as a successful defence. In any case, there's particularly voyeurs, think about the programme. I think that's why I became so popular and it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Well, it is, I mean you know, what's gonna happen the viewers used the chance obvious. I see the chance before I do the rest can you and they walk in, and so yeah. It's a bit. That way- and you know I listened It's a very serious subject, very serious crime
and I'd never make light of it, but clearly there are some be no borders. An humorous moments when You know guy walks and naked by has a lame excuse. You know it's a pizza and throughout the entire interviews we saw in our latest investigation Hansen versus Predator, which is a recurring segment on crime watch daily mighty show. You know, It didn't you see it all over again and once again in this latest investigation in three have days eleven men surface ranging from A military defence. Contractor to about insurance executive to a guy who is on the waiting list to become a police officer in summer in Connecticut to a guy I had met on the commuter train between Europe and Canada there is still going on This new show I know you're on crime watch daily now, but the idea for this new show Hansen versus predator at the start on Kickstarter you,
we did a Kickstarter campaign, which was very successful and a lot of people have been clamouring for years about when you do neither predator when you go to another programme, and so I decided to partially Fund. Those and get a going was a kick start campaign and responses very strong, and gave a sort of an organic bodies that you don't get in any other way. Tell me a little bit about crime watch daily and how you got involved with them. And worked with had been in contact with the executive pollution of groundwater daily for years a day we admire them in the business, their reputation, and we had an ongoing dialogue about. You know me being out of the show and ultimately hosting a show and reporting for it, and it worked out in I think it's an ideal fit because it allows me to do that. An enterprise reporting I like to do. You know him carers, the kinds of interviews d like to do in digging around I've been doing this for thirty four years.
And so what I call the Nypd or if I walk into the small shares Department in Kansas, Typically, we had cooperation access and compelling storage Chris. Thank you so much for the interview. It's been a pleasure talking to you and, like I said, you're legend in this industry, so well my that sir. That's far too kind, but I appreciate it very much later admin crime are daily with Chris Hansen is the first ever crab show to air and daytimes indication and its receipt. A daytime Emmy nomination for its inaugural year from us of murders to compelling mysteries. Cover investigations and shocking crimes caught on video the series and covers the stories happening in small towns across Amerika and turn them into national headlights. It's available throughout the Eu S on various local stations check your local listings for show date.
And times that's good you for another episode of swords and scale. Thank you so much for joining us, please. How support. The show join us on our patriotic patria dot com, sash, sword and scale and contribute whatever you can enjoy Facebook, Twitter and Instagram so next time stay safe and watch your back
do you need something to listen to next check. This other show from cast media, I am Jake the tool I Jamie baby and we are your house of circular sucking reach
This showed we're gonna, bring you a new stalking case covering the ins and outs of each stalker, their victim in there. What a night she hated me. So might she found my stepmother, frightened it and then was caught making a plan to attack me with my stepmother. He shows up to my gallery and he's wearing a space suit. He looks at me and he goes you look like just grab and lily from the fifth element has any looks at me very intense, leading US stock. You we hear what the commissioner will you anything or not. We carry about the crime strong little laudably predator stock in me for forty four years was starting to really interfere with my life and my freedom, a lot more than he had been one of those random messages. On my dear it was like I'm coming and I'll see you on this day. I was responding to it and then it was like a verification of a flag. I said all of a sudden, I hear a knock at the door, I opened the door and there they think point something cameramen standing in front of me with a backpack and he looked at me and he said a few areas of panic because it isn't Larry. He followed me. My work play any grabbed me for men to the door and was I am block they unblock may why'd. He blew me I'm going to throw up time, Jamie Baby, strictly stopping mares ungenerous. My we subscribe apple pie, gas spot of my words like God. This person will stop texting means, of course
We re showing up everywhere, then that's when it's like you're, like oh shit,.
Transcript generated on 2020-03-24.