« Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris

#175: Rasmus Hougaard and Jacqueline Carter, The Mind of the Leader

Rasmus Hougaard and Jacqueline Carter from the Potential Project discuss their mission of enhancing performance for leaders and large organizations through mindfulness. Potential Project believes we can cocreate a more peaceful and kinder world by helping others reach a calmer and more focused mindset. Hougaard and Carter have deep roots in the practice of meditation and mindfulness and have written books about what kind of mental qualities are needed for leaders in today's society along with what will effectively drive great work performance. Hougaard and Carter provide insight on how they have achieved this with large organizations such as Microsoft and Google. The Plug Zone Website: https://www.potentialproject.com/ Books: https://www.potentialproject.com/books/the-mind-of-the-leader/
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Four may be seen as the ten percent happier vodka. Then we ve got a pair of with smart experts on the show this week talking about an issue that I think almost everybody can relate to, which is how can you use mindfulness in a work situation? So how do you deal with e mails haughty, stay awake and bore meetings: how do you deal with bad bosses? Rasmus, Hougaard and Jacqueline Carter are experts in the stuff. They work with organizations. Huge corporations all over the world. They're also going to talk a lot about sleep. I got a ton out of this conversation and I think you will too so they're coming up. First, a few very cool items of business I'd. Never one. There are some new meditations up on the temperature and happier after you should know about. One of them is called partying.
if you're neuroses, that's by Dan Harris the others called sleeping with kindness by or in sulphur who, as I said before, is one of our most popular teachers on the Athens. then on. This pike has twice the other item of business is is related to a familiar name for podcast listeners, Jeff Warren who, just on the shore recently- and he and I wrote a book together- called meditation for fidgety sceptics, he's gonna do a meditation retreat, provisionally sceptics enough stay New York at the Omega Institute on May tenth through twelve, you should sign up for this evening's would be especially for people who, having done a retreat before so be greatly
dip. Your toes in two days of exploring with a guy that I like to call them Macgyver of meditation, he's hilarious, Celso, pretty good lookin, I'm told you can reserve your spot on the cushion by going to Jeff, worn dot, org, slash event, Slash Omega Retreat, Jeff, worn dot, org, slash event, Slash Omega retreat check it out already Rasmussen, Guard and Jaclyn Carter. They both work at a place called the. potential project which is per there very short, Bio, a global leadership, training, organizational development and research firm. They help leaders and organizations, enhance performance, innovation, and resilience through mindfulness and other practices grounded in neuroscience and research. They partner with forward thinking companies such as Cisco, Lego, Accenture, Microsoft and five hundred plus other global clients. Rasp Miss has written a couple of books. One is called one second ahead
enhance your performance at work with my for this, the more recent one is called the mind of the leader he's also witness a bunch of stuff and Harvard Business Review, Forbes and business. Insider and Jacqueline has masters of science and organizational behaviour. She spent twenty years working with large scale or organs, nations, helping them get their act together, and she also had a wide range of leadership in consulting roles in a variety of industries, include transportation, insurance and government and she's been both. These folks had been studying and practising I am from this for quite a while and they in and they imbedded deeply in what they do. So let me stop talking and we'll get right to restless and Jacqueline her there. Thank you both Romania pressure. let me start with Erasmus. How did you get into meditation? I got his administration about twenty four
Years ago, when my brother had a girlfriend was meditating on. When I heard the word meditation, it was kind of a just click for me, and I thought that's that's. What I've been really that's out of jail, yea was so we are that was before minutes said the word meditation was reading owns. I went to the two. These went to Nepal in India cited studying, which Geezer. Ok, if somebody twenty five years ago to drop the word meditation, I would not have dropped everything gone to Nepal is, I would I thought meditation was ridiculous, so what what about it was attractive to you, right on it was deadly was ridiculous. Some of the first teaches I meant that was pretty ridiculous. Where were you living at the time I was living in Copenhagen, Denmark and
so did for early teachers you met in Copenhagen were no eye. He met the first teaches Nepal Elizabethan pretty esoteric, I would say not like not like meditation or mindfulness s, as I would teaches day or is as many of the teachers today, certainly in the west or teaching at pre different and how old were you? What were you doing in your life? I was eighteen hours, student, ok and your parents how they feel over the fact that my mother was afraid. I would stay in a monastery, never come back, but they were ok answer. Did you drop out of school to do this. I no Sir God took a sabbatical starter half a year and and and went off, and then I came back and then has been doing retreats and mainly studying with his holiness us that a llama for many years now, personally, yes, person and an indulgence both as a year. How did you become a stiff? That's that's a pretty big deal. How did you become a student of the day
if you're, let's say if you're, if you're committed enough to the practice, and if you, if you, if you get yourself no circles than than that's what happens to your practices, a tibetan Buddhist practice Yes, but I would say it's a western form of that, so completely your secular, completely scientific, more in the style and that you would do it so some of the teachers that I've been following for the past fifteen years or more westernized teacher so taking off to the whistles and the bells colors and a mantra and all that stuff? I just I mind practice ripen still you, the Dalai Lama, he's doing a lot of you know, prostration ends and prayer yeah and, and then, unlike like when you meet him, you give him a cancer, but if it, if its a catalyst like this self scar, if you give and is kind of a tradition Tibetans blessing nowadays he just doesn't accept that so he doesn't want.
distance, he doesn't want all that is scary stuff for him had worked because that's how he grew up possess Westerners, that's absolutely pointless, gacha and whereby Ujiji, how did you get and meditation, I actually started more from our scientific perspective. So I just thought it was so interesting. This idea of studying your mind, and so I really started more from reading. I should did read books on Buddhism and just not the whole idea, I've been able dead you manage your mind. You can manage your thoughts euro. Your thoughts are not your own. I just thought that was so fascinating. So for many years I took it very much from ahead perspective. and it was really in my early twenties that I what went on my first retreat and started actually to realise. Oh, this is not to something you think about is actually something that you need to practise. What was the first retreat for you, a going retreats which
is a very intense now if you're familiar with yes tell listeners remain up. Yes, so ten days of silence, noble silence, so no eye contact no contacted all with anybody and sitting for ten hours a day which, for some people sounds terrible, but I can just a sure, any listeners that it is one of the most amazing exe. answers to be able to really truly sit and be alone, with your own mind, an and have that amazing spirits and something I recommend everyone through your in your twenties at the time. Yes, how to change the word above for you. I mean that's a difficult question, because I think there are so many changes that it brings about. I think that to start to be able to have that greater awareness of the thoughts that you have that they are choices you can make about, whether to take them down the rabbit hold that they take you down or to simply be able to observe them, and let them go to recognise that.
Emotions are also just experiences that you have there not something that you have. They don't have you don't have to reside. They don't have to be the home that you reside in acts. They can be things that are just that you answer you learn from that. You understand, sir. we changed my entire. I would say it was transformative change. My relationship with my with my thoughts with my mind and just maybe more more calm, much more relaxed and much more. I think, reflective in terms of how I approached every situation every day every moment were worry or joint detector, Canadian, you too, damn that's very good ear. Yes, did I say about, as I am doing something me, I'm not sure whether lives right. Sorry, what were, the exact later levies trying to yes, beef, proud of my canadian culture, to apologise, because, where again originally from outside of trial, what
were you doing at the time that you are in your midst? What what was going on in your life in your early twenties, when you decided take retreat willow background here? I think that, while from me actually to have started when I was when I was fourteen and my high school had a world religions, coarse and Buddhism was part of that. So that was really, as I said, when I started just reading a lot of books and but it wasn't really until I got into my twenties that I was able to to start to realise that wait, a minute there was. There was more to this than that, that was my experience and what is your professional training- My professional training is management consulting, so I was with delight consulting for many years. I have a background and organizational behaviour masters in that it's one of things. I just love, I just feel so: passionate about helping organizations to enhance performance, and specifically my specialization- is managing change and for for many years I kept my meditation practice, a secret because enjoy consulting the fast pace, world of high pressure, consulting environment, the law
thing that I was gonna tell anybody was that I like to sit on a uncomfortable cushion for extended periods of time and count my breasts. That was just never going to happen, and so It really took me a long time for me out by talk about it as coming out of the closet as a as a mindfulness practitioner, because It just realized the incredible benefit when you look at organizations and how they manage change the idea. Able to integrate these practices into that environment is so powerful, but it's really again. I really respect people like yourself and and others who have helped all of us be able to bring these into daily work life and and for us our passion is bringing them into daily organizational life. And when you say us, what are you referring to potential project? That's what we do tell us Toto. What is the potential programme Rasmussen? Thank you rightly says the global leadership or institutional change and research firm. So what we do is swift
training, basic leaders and employees in large organisations like Google and Microsoft, and so on in become What minded focused on and com so basically mindless training for for the corporate world be doing this for about twelve years now in constraining hundreds. Seventy thousand people now was pretty agree. sense of networks around two hundred fifty trainers around the world and is doing this work, and our mission is very simply to create a more peaceful, more kind world by helping people. You have more calm, more focused and more and more more kind minds? Basically, how does it were? How does it sitting on a cushion a chair whatever Heaven the impact at all on the way a corporation works. Oh it has everything to. about that's so what we see today is a people are completed. Living more boycotted reality. They are under pressure there always on information, overload, distracted and as a result of that,
basically losing our police pay attention when Jesse from the research perspective that our ability to be focused really declining, and that means people are running around like headless chicken and not really doing what is most important, but just doing everything that calls for their attention. and mindful is the opposite of that is the ability of managing our tensions have really be focused on what is most important right now and that helps obviously and performance and productivity, which is what the company ones, but also helps like you have experienced, from your own life. It helps to settle us and find more calm, more peace and therefore more happiness with us, ten percent more or less doesn't matter, but people just become happier. You know I have done some meditation and I definitely agree its health, but I still even just the last couple of days feel overwhelmed and confused and like not sure what I should be focusing on her and light. I have too many ideas and running meant to do too many different direction, so it's not a panacea, no definite.
not say, is no silver bullet around meditation. I think meditation helps if we do the practice, if we don't it doesn't hurt. knowing about it, doesn't help. Reading about it doesn't help doing. The practice helps doesn't solve all problems itself, some a foundational level. It helps us to be more calm, focused uncensured, but We need to work on how we live our lives. Obviously, that's what we're specialised in? How do we help people in the culprits too, in embed the practice fine felicity two hundred year with emails, how they conduct em things how they set their priorities and how they get, good sleep and how they make sure to have better work, life balance, so not just sitting for ten or twenty minutes a day about how you utilise those techniques of mental, mastering the mind into everything you do. I should think that may be one of the areas were I've. A shortcoming in my practice is that I do the practice, but I'm not sure I really
integrated into a lot of things, which is embarrassing to admit. So, let's talk about some them. How can you be mindful on email, wiping the first? just be aware that at different times in the day, it's not always best to do email. So one of the things that we know is that first thing in the morning, if you ve had a good night's, sleep is actually when, hopefully, you have the most creative most expensive mind, if you download your email, which too many people do first thing in the morning, checking it on their phone. Your basically dumping a whole bunch, a clatter The mind that actually potentially has really good space to solve creative problems suggests please looking at when do you check your email through the day would actually be just a simple way to be more mindful and create less cluttered with those for a vast photos of that for as a news man I need to. I feel, but maybe I'm wrong, that when I wake up in the morning. I need to find out what happened overnight, any sort of missiles from the boss, not that my buses, that many missiles but whatever,
it seems to me like. I feel this pressure to check in check the news. Make sure that no emergency has broken out in my any of my professional endeavours or anything like that. But you're saying I mean: do you think they were responsible for me to say no, you maybe instead. The first thing I should do is pick up the product. They create a project on working on and focus on that for couples. Yeah. I well and I think every job is difference. Of course you know in a news that may be appropriate that you need to check, but I mean, could you wait like maybe the first and not check it for the first hour to be able to do mother things I mean just from a mine perspective. This is about understanding our mind and making sure that we use it to the best of our ability and honestly here I e forcing the morning it may be necessary, but it is creating clutter its cluttering that potentially spacious open mind. I've never spent a happy hour or two checking in answering I didn't get aware from chicken emails
ever bring fantastic Israel, is a complete rain and creativity in many ways out before and then said when we look at at at emails in general, Ninety percent of it is rubbish, and we really do need to attend to its. That sounds radical. Put its really true. If you go back and check the emails like if you go on a vacation for a week and you come back, how much of that can just perch, because it's it's redundant, it has been taken care of even without your interference the I will also add a b c news. There is an enormous amount of email around the news events of the day, and I also among a dinner regrettable, but men amount of that. You know peak spam, pr type stuff. So I have a lot of easy. Brooding, do, but there are still I mean I helped to remedy governor of business. I give her house to couple shows hears There are things like I do have to pay attention to a myriad of projects going with various people in them.
I need to nurture them a meteorite on Miss stuff, but it's it's a pain in the bud. What do you need, the attention first thing in the morning your I actually had why? I'm really why holding on that began. I I agree first thing in the morning, is in my experience when it's the most fertile territory mentally, and I also agree that getting stuck in Do the minutiae of whatever on your email is thy Kryptonite, freer, creative capacity arrogance so it seems like a problematic move. I've been making and maybe I need to rethink it. That's why I hopped on, while on the other, Aspect of it is looking at just notifications. I mean one of the things that we know is every time we get a pop up notification, whether its email or two extra, whatever it might be. It's a distraction for mind that takes us away from whatever we were doing, and one of the things is just too
really look at. Are those notifications actually valuable for you? Do you have your email, like outlook open all the time and its distracting you from other work? And yes, then, maybe nights, because I mean seriously. This is shouted down, just let down and just decide. When are you actually gonna check your email jargon, but when you're on your desktop, when you're only S top examine its own for that matter. Real cool study from from Stanford came out here, if you go finding that the more often we let our self distract by incoming messages because of the kings of the earth so the other than inefficacious coming up the more our prefrontal cortex will shrink and the prefrontal cortex associate with our believes you actually before us and our executive function. So having a thing Of course it's really a challenge in terms of living a meaningful life. I agree. There are structural things you can do like turning off the motivation patients, but then there's also, I notice a real tick that if I'm working on it Beethoven. I hit a tough spot.
I immediately want to reach for Instagram or email. Some dope mean hit is exactly, and I think that's how that and it's all so I think it is just like a like any quick fix right. It's like a like reaching for a chocolate bar, and I think that the invitation is. Does that really help you? If it does great, I mean, maybe that does help you get over, that creative yeah. It probably doesn't it probable. just sacks: U N, you are destroyed. fast, which is wonderful for the mines, the mind loves, you know thing into novelty in something new and something but it, but what could be better me? No more! Ben going for a walk me. No getting some getting sincere The programme is break or may be doing one minute of mindfulness practice right just to be able to clear the club, because that's what you really need a spacious mind. I hate to be the annoying person who espouses taking a walk or- meditating in those moments, but the fact of the matter There is now that I have a,
marginally improved self awareness through meditation, I notice that when I step outside all the bologna that I was worried about some significant percentage of it evaporates exact and things more clearly in a different way, with a different perspective or if I sit meditate, I may I found this when my last book and I was really miserable the whole time and occasionally pull away and just meditate, which felt counter intuitive, but often the problem that is trying to solve I would get answers not so the answers I was looking for, and sometimes there were stupid, but but sometimes there is there something really there, but it was certainly in him a geyser of new ideas that we're not available to me when I was standing there intermittently pounding my head against the careers, green and checking social media exactly exactly this is a challenge
that this sends like an intervention for I stand. This is exciting new high level panel. Then we help you require you to ask, as I'm gonna use this bag ass, my own personal debt of it, and if you dont, want to listen, I know you, you should listen what else sleep with the other thing you mentioned in terms of helping, you know, I should avoid sleep meetings, This is another area where I don't do a good job of bringing mindfulness to the table after fine. That's me at my worst in meetings, especially for discuss, A creative project that I'm trying to push forward we're gonna get? I notice that I am impatient with other people. Do not fully understand everything I have my head, I can't I can't believe how dumb they are, which would of course, I haven't been explained to them So how does one bring the practice into meeting? The first thing is to be prepared for the meeting. What often happens, Minuet Agnes
We have back to back meetings, meaning we kind of few minutes late for after him, meetings of meeting runs over meaning will be too late the next meeting, meaning we're going to answer that meeting at a sixteen first minutes. We just going to be focused on wrapping up what happened in the previous meetings, with constantly behind from mental point of view. Yeah, that's a really practical thing is always and many meetings, five minutes before time and like in your always schedule so that you have at least five minutes of transition time and what you doing that transition time as you basically prepare yourself mincemeat. So whether you walking to add another meeting room or whether you just sitting and waiting for a conference call our phone call rather chicken, Instagram, more emails or facebook or whatever, one minute, or even just thirty seconds, to just sit there and just breathe. Just take a short, pause whereby EU mindset was a little bit and your mind will be more clear for the next meeting. years ago, I started volunteering in a hospice and it was. I was trained
by a pair of then buddhist priests have actually been on this progress before one of our early podcasting with Jodo and cushion they're married, then buddhist priests, and they run this programme, tradespeople, ivy, hospice care providers and they had this piece of advice. They gave me that was, rate advice had I utterly failed to apply in any meaningful way in my actual life, but when you're from room to room, they say they said She said that often we are like these huge Macy's day. Parade floats like our head is the whole thing and were not in any connected to our body, we're just kind of all head floating for me, into meeting and just bringing with the stuff from the last meeting of the next meeting, and they basically said just now. make a little tiny, imperceptible ritual of prejudice, touching the door frame as you're going from hospice bed to hospital bed going from room to room to talk to these
residents to reset to just remind the mind that This is a new interaction here and I know Even yesterday I went into this one meeting here it we see that culture is often such that even I often have a lot of unscheduled meetings like we gotta catch this one editor at one point in this one. You know senior producer one point to get her to sign off our plan and we ve got at five minutes have check your email and so your kind of rushed- and I didn't take any reset- I just came- airily into it and you know, was fine but didn't I felt like I didn't conduct myself the where would have liked to have conducted myself and anywhere that was of war salad there but I'm a wreck. I think I think then, first saw its great awareness right in terms of, and I think that's why. I'm things the other things that the practice gives us as it is gives us an awareness. Am I in there its state of mind to be having this meeting right now, because if I'm not like, for example, especially if you're no tree
convince something somebody of something or maybe, if you're, giving somebody feedback like you really need to check. And to make sure am I in the right state of mind to be having this important discussion, but I think the other thing that you I know it, and this is one of the things that we look at is, of course, organizations are just about individuals, their individuals working within a collective within a culture, and what we really look at is not just about you walking in with the right frame of mind to be able to have the most effective meaning. But what about your colleagues? You know that You say like of your rushing and grabbing people on the fly Howard. We truly prepared, as that producers, to have that conversation. Now you said it went Oh, but I mean, are you actually being kind of meal grab the person on the run should if it's a really important discussion you know, should you give her, a chance to be able to clear her clutter too. Maybe have some under make sure she's fully prepared, because if she's not in the right, mind states your choice,
Hence it being successful is diminish nest. I think there's absolutely correct. It would require a big cultural shift here, that's much more systemic than I am personally cable for, because if I hadn't cluttered this woman's vine, somebody else, So it's not like this was some unique lightning. Bolts is disturbing a day is a series of lightning bolts, and so you just, but we can't progressive unless we get her sign often so it's it's complicated environs. But I think that the question that we would have is is not in a radical change overnight, but are their small ways from a cultural perspective, because if you know it everybody is walking around with cluttered minds and Maisie Day parade Spigot Fleetness tribunal balloons over their heads. Is that the most effective way to operate and could
having just maybe a little in integrating drips of mindfulness drifts of mindfulness practice drips of being able to help people quitter the clutter touch the wall everybody do that just a little bit more ten percent, maybe maybe even only five percent, but would that help you who, in terms of being more effective, being less stressed collectively, maybe even an answer farmers enhance your creativity and answer output. What are the other groups unmindfulness mindfulness? There would help in terms of how we interact face to face in our meetings in the professional environment. We ve talked about. resetting before meeting either on a walk or Thirty seconds in the in the room we ve talked about the Choto and thing of touching the door frame and being aware that you have the Macy's day proclivity. What are other things that we could be, think about doing based on our meditation practices that will make us more effective and meetings
I was a silencing our mind as much as we can because, as you say, when we come with that big had that head is so full and so clutter is so basically confused either we don't necessarily see what is most important in this conversation, so taking that time prepare, but then, when you're in it actually take time to listen and not listened to your in a voice, but listen so what's going on out there and see what emerges from that's if try to come in to a meeting always trying to solve things we solve a lot because we so busy trying to solve that are rational. Mine is just running a mark and often when we try to just slow that down a little bit, things go much faster. We try to implement this, in Carlsberg? We do this with all of our clients, basically cosmic bordering on it. To be accompanied by a common interests, and yet they do good work, obviously in and if you come an interesting, but they basically side doing listing of taking in one minute pause. and being more attended to listening during a meeting. So us as teams
and they wanted to measure the effects of that and they actually found that they reduce the meeting sound with thirty five percent. That signal can return on investment for taking one minute of break at the beginning, Each meeting was held your change either, not him its aiding they just said. Okay, now we'll just for one minute, we won't check our devices and we won't have conversations with just be present the room. That's all they said, and it was like a be cultural change. No, the reasons why they just did it and they did they measured, wanted it you're crazy. I mean I'm a co founder of accompany ten percent happier than we do due to the great example yeah, so we should be doing this totally I mean, although I have having said that you know. Sometimes when I'm we are our headquarters or Boston. Since I was there, I ll say you guys: can we do a guided meditation and always everybody's a little surprised that have suggested, but it's not culturally weird everybody site to doing
whereas Europe ABC. I think it would be a little, but I think if you dont have to call it a guided meditation now I know you can call it whatever makes sense in that culture like one of the things and what we find is why things we just say: hey, you know we're all running back to back. I'm Sri just came from somewhere with everybody just a minute to just settle in that's it like just make it really simple and most people say thank you like that is so nice to know, just just take em all mention just to be able to allow yourself to fully arrive you're here physically, but just allow yourself to arrive mentally or whatever works, the language, the culture that makes sense but The thing that I think is really important in terms of organizations and cultures and meetings, but it's also true, just in general, is to really look at your priorities. I think that too many p. But the reason why their heads or so cluttered is because they ve got too many things that are top priorities, and we know from a mine perspective that we can not that's my problem. Okay. Well, there you go no, don't argue, go you ok words just that we can't
and from a mental perspective. You know twenty thirty top priorities, that's just impossible, and that makes us overwhelmed because we have this list of all these things that we really really really really need to do, and we really really really can't, as we really really really don't have enough time or enough head space to be able to fact we get them done so one of Things is just to be able to be really discipline with self and say: okay, God only so many hours in the day. What truly, are your two or three top priorities? When are you she gonna. Do them so schedule those into your day to make sure that you ve got spaced actually get those done, and the key thing is those other, however, meant There are seven, you know ten twenty things maybe you'll get to them, but dont think about them, because if you are thinking about the things that you can't get and today you're just distracting yourself from take you're, taking away from the time that you actually can do the things that realistically you can get and that you really need to get done. So the abyss
but to be able to let go of priorities and putting her quotes on that priorities. but you really have to be disciplined about ten, you I get done today is such a great way to be able to have more focus and more clarity of summary needed this in their life, and I have a friend who needs this in his life. His initials ardent Harris, how would you go about implementing what you just stride, which sounds very soon well, the way that we work with individuals and organizations is through a series of interventions, so a series of sessions like those perhaps is just talking about you know, tell me about your daily, like tell me about the challenges that you face from a mental perspective and looking for is to not only do the ten minutes of training which we do have, and we make that very simple and again with no nothing. Fancy just simple focusing on the breath, but More importantly, will I would say not, more importantly as and then how can we apply that to daily work life, and then we just walk?
through one of the things that you do every day and how would applying a little bit more focus a little bit more com, a little bit more clarity? How would that help you and just again, tweak looking as we also know that the other thing is. We know that we don't change. habits all in one shot. So the ideas have a series of short, sharp interventions where we could say: okay this week, Dan. What would be ok so we have this conversation about emails, what're you gonna, What to do next week and then next week we can touch base and follow up and and look at maybe next week will focus on meetings so just have a series of giving you easy things to do tangible, practical that'll? Actually hopefully save you time and energy and help you be more effective, but pursuing a series of different interventions. Gotcha sleep, you mentioned Sleeve war. How does I haven't seen any evidence that meditation actually helps with sleep, but maybe does maybe this ISIS isn't good enough, but riff if you would
yeah. So there's been research on this. Isn't caution from from my thinks. You Calgary, I can remember anyway, research has done no research on on sleeping and mindful of specifically finding that improves sleep quality on the Piss Berkeley colleague Index, which is seven parts of sleeve like how quickly fall asleep, how deep issues asleep? How often you wake? Events on on average improves all of those on non thirty. Seven percent is pretty significant. I think that the reason for that is minus You know helps to calm the mind and when we have a sleep challenges, it's not the body that is. The problem is to mind that keeps us busy, obviously so what we recommend for four sleepers, sir. If you want avoid sleep, auctions on just to do. a few minutes of mindless practice just before you go to bed so that you can let go of all the unresolved issues from the day and not having to do within Minna in a half unconscious state in its deep state. Basically, that's the first thing.
do it a bit of mindfulness and the way you lie down on you bet, lie down and your back and just breathe out, relax beat out relax. Sammy, breathe, I'll, just relax and the moment starts to fall asleep. You turn on your side. You make a conscious shift between the actual practice of mindfulness and mine for taxation too, then falling asleep. So that's a medium for point and then, when you wake up at night, which some people doing can fall asleep again use. We repeat this patterns, it's pretty simple, There is also some more radical things about sleep. If you really want to have a good night's, sleep is one hour before you go to bed no devices and that I mean for many people their way. I can do that, but I mean again the ideas that we know that, if we have too many thoughts in our head, it's our thoughts that keep us up. So if we can do things to clear the clutter, you're not going for a walk or exercising or middle playing with your pet, Do you doing something? That's a more perceptual activity, taking a shower anything that wakes up into a perception
which is really what we need for sleep as opposed to a conceptual mode where we're thinking or oftentimes ruminating about things yet others. Another my dad when I was little used to give, which was. Why would complain to him that I couldn't sleep in here to bend over and run as fast as you can into the wall, two thousand did not work well, I never tried really seeing line who could which you in a perception says the wall and tag running yeah I can see yet we dont Weedin recommend, will consider and I have to stay tuned. Moreover, conversation is on the way after this you see headline, across your screen all day but you're busy? What do you need to know what actually shaping your world? I'm bread milky from ABC News, and every morning we start here it was.
Ordinary first watching here in Singapore, this is ABC New, daily podcast handful of stories. Just twenty minutes director, coming thanks for being with us news maker, smart reporting, taken you straight to the heart of a story, starts here: listen for free unable, podcast or your favorite podcast out. written a couple of books, The recent war, misery is one of the mind the leader by both of you, tell me about the book. This is an especially research for Europe study with a Harvard Business Review where we have assessed thirty five thousand meters round the world an institute thrown in Some see ex owes around the world from Microsoft, Mckinsey an extension. the big companies, the Exo chief, whatever offers could we see you're CFO seo whenever gotcha abasing to figure out what kind of what kind
many qualities. I need for leaders nowadays to be effectual in creating casement motivation and basically DR great performance in the teams and organisations? What are those qualities that leaders need to have and out of this whole researcher. Three colleagues that stood out really created was first of all, mindfulness, because without mindfulness you really don't have anything you're, not focus yourself aware not present. Would your people so without that kind of lose out on all parameters. The second one is selflessness, which is a of a surprise us selfishness in terms of leading for the greater good for the benefit of the doubt: the majority not for your own interest, because if you do that people are not going to be willing to work hard for you last one compassion, which is the intention to be of for others, if you ever need a show of compassion, with compassion and you have actually compassion for the people. You leading and lines that you're you're serving they will know you have their back.
and they will come back and they will work hard for you, so Microsoft and compassion with three qualities that already key for me there is now a days to come right. You have in your push back. You haven't here to the idea of compassion and a professional context. One is isn't a good lead you to be pushed around right. So there is a challenge. Southward yeah, there's a child's about self compassion that people will think that you become a doormat which is not the case compassion. Doesn't mean that you always soft and fluffy, unlike petting people and then and then giving them what they want. Trying to please them. It can be about giving the tough feedback it can be about laying people off but doing with the intention to be of benefit rather than just be ruthless and and tough compassion is not soft is actually pretty
because it means you show up as a human being in the act of doing toughening, so the people, which is your job as a leader, though compassionate that soft it's pretty hard. Actually, if there's a second question, if selflessness and compassion are what are two of the most important things, these people are telling the sea ex o people are telling you. Why do so? Many toxic people succeed, as that does does equal research like our research, was a four year project with her with a pretty big data. Assemble there's. Also, research from people like Jeffrey Pfeffer friend from Stanford is basically if you want to raise fast in rags, you need to be all about yourself and you need to be ruthless and tough. That's the way of getting a greater So this seems to be evidence for both of those pass. I think far each leader is discussed what do you want to bring into the world and also who is it that you want to be? We can certainly
see that's widows qualities of basically being good and doing good, you have a good chance, a racing faster. There is also evidence that shows, though, that if you are a ruthless and if you're all about yourself, I'm ITALY, short lived. People won't work for you for very long people will not necessarily be strictly. Stay late? They certainly won't put in the extra effort, and I think what we are seeing now in organizations is engagements. Whereas continue to see the Gallup Poll results. Only fourteen percent of the global workforce is engaged in. It doesn't look like it's gonna go up any time soon, and I think that now always we're looking at the jobs that we have are so much more about collaboration, because no one person can have all the answers. We need to be able be present with each other. We need to actually enjoy working together because we're probably gonna be working a lot together. If we don't have the social cohesion if we don't have the trust. If I dont know down that, you have my back really how how long term, how effective our we gonna be. In terms of our relationship may be for a short period of time, a short sprint, but over the long
Oh, which I think is what we are seeing now is, is really troubling for translations, as they are not able to build loyalty and trust in social cohesion over an extended period of time. What I see a ridiculous toxin pupils are very good at managing up and therefore get the promotions, and then you have to work for terrifying people I think that what we're seeing them from a leadership perspective is that how long are how long is the team gonna stick around ameliorated right now Oh especially, I mean right now anybody can work from their couch and, if their smart and if their capable they can get a job anywhere in the world. So there's five percent employment or whatever while exactly so. I think the thing is is that in the war for talent, if Europe, if you're a jerk and your train, your people, a crap, how successfully can be that's the bottom line, and also I mean what kind of person do you want to be but, if you're beyond that question that, in terms of actually your ability to be able to to manage in today's complex in a diver, this global worlds. We
we're creativity is becoming more and more important for every different like Carlsberg. They need creativity as much as any other organisation. Now you need team but immersion. This study out of the sky at Stanford, whose firm So what is how, if you were in the room? What would he be saying now are would probably Well, it seems both of those options are great and I hope you would say So what do you want to be? What do you want to bring into the world? But his is this research is compelling. You know through the power play, do what is good for you and that's going to get you up there a little bit faster, but you would also say it's short lived Thus, Jaclyn says the team is not gonna stay around for long. At some point, you mode. Maybe you may be told on that you're that you're, that your bastard and- and and in the long term it won't support. You anymore feel good for you and you, and now I'm in ass. The other thing is it. It doesn't feel good yeah, you know
many people were bastards- are not mindful and they're, not quite aware of the pain, but it it doesn't feel good right. I think. That's the thing that we know is- and I think the researchers backing this out that, but we actually know that it. We are social beings. We we look from our ancestors, we look to be able to have communities and we look to be able to support each other, and we know that when we're not kind to others, it actually affects us from their lunch perspective. We may not be consciously aware of it but subconsciously. We know it doesn't feel good and it has long term negative effects. So I think that those people better that are right. up the ranks and feel like, while I'm amassing a lot of power and money and and maybe have it may be on the outside. It may seem like I have it all. My question is really think the very happy also from the organizational point of view, there is massive recent
now finding that organisations that are actually truly caring for the people are doing financially much better at wealth does is real business case for basic bringing good into ITALY to ship it. Isn't that says that we talked in the micro level of how you be a doormat. If the people worry, you can be a doormat if you compassionate but set what we're on a MAC. level for an individual corporation enough you're, giving great health benefits, whatever you know, is, and how it? How does that help? The bottom line right? I think A great story of one of the organizations were closely within this research, which is Mariette which, as you know, one of the biggest companies in the world. Will the merger urban waste It would now seven and fifty thousand employees a massive message organisation. They have been busy ass, a philosophy which is, if we take care of our people, data caravan guests and the guests will return less, basically that patients- loss if he is not like that age. Our promise, our way of thinking about people is a business philosophy and sound
good, then something that most organization say yeah. We think that is well question is: what do you do in rubbish? The road and Mary had had a real crush back our crunch backing in the financial crisis winner. in two thousand and nine, when companies stop travelling and people know constant avocations, nobody went to hotels for any reason, so they went from that global occupants rate of eighty seven too or within their within a few months, meaning, basically they had millions of hotel rooms that were empty and they had hundreds of thousands of people. The bishop had nothing to do and then the Chairman Bill Marriott. He asked to see you in and the siege the eight hour director to come into line in the board room and said: what's the situation and the ceo basically shirt is looking bad we having no red numbers, we have to change something the biggest causes our people we turned to the Asia directed David, rigorous and sets a David. What can we do about this and David set for,
While we can lay off people, that's what all companies doing right now and bill just instinctively sent That would be wrong because people will not be able to paint a mortgage. They won't be able to put their kids for education. We can't do that. Does not compassionate So what is the plan? Beaten and Davis at Mount he'll be painful, but we can reduce, everybody's hours. The downside of that is that people lose lose their health coverage. And Bill Mary it again and he said well, that's something good planets do that, but you'll have to spend the rule about health coverage. People need their health coverage, so it was called. FR? I fought for merrier through a year and a half, but after that that recession they came out with the highest engaging scores that they had ever had and you have really high engagement scores in general. They have higher engagement force than organizations like Google or Microsoft that have high pay people and people hydrogen. Region normally equated with them, with my engagements course, but married really have people that are
made it to their work because they're taking care of something in a macro perspective. It really makes and we see this in many of the organisation that we workmen. What is your? What what are you? That's? Council, your readers are, clients are whoever you're dealing with about. This is a non sequitur apologize about dealing with toxic folks in the workplace or in dealing with a toddler at home. Cause he's really Gaza is diapers about now getting about the kid but the on the on the grown ups. You are toxic and that in other you just find them in the workplace. How I think a lot of us. What wonder, how do we work with those folks while not you know abandoning our ideals, I think, For me, the one thing that I often look with their with with organizations is to try to get that individual to see whether that's actually helping them or not. So
Everybody were all we all are driven by motivations right, so is that is that actually truly being a factor for that person? And is there any way, then you can look at what simple to that person, and maybe it is around the team medium. It is wrong, you know what you're in and we often see this people will come to us because a leader there having extreme, over within their team, and we say okay. So this is a problem. You're getting a bad turn over within your team you're, getting whatever river using the three sixty reviews are kind back all negative. So is there something actually is a pain point that they would say is they would agree, is a pain point that then you could be able to use to be able to open it. Georgia conversation, but honestly I mean you know. I can't do that if it your boss, though well yeah, and, I think, that's a tough situation I mean, but I think fit to me. I would say that if you, if you can't find a way that they can be motivated to even slightly look at how the behaviour may or may not be effective for you. That's just a tough situ,
and I would say then again fur for you. If you have any other choice to be made the job you need to stay in the job, I would say, then the practice is actually probably really important to you and make sure you're you're doing a lot of Self Karen Self Compassion, because it sounds like in a situation like that you might need it. But my experience is that I think I think whom I believe and I believe in positive things- a vote beings. I think that most people, if their shown a better way to be able to to lead that, includes being kind to people. Actually, I actually think most people are open to that. You just may have to help them, see that perhaps it's been the way that they were. They were. Let me nods its habit, it's like, that's what they think that boss adjust will be like bosses are supposed to be jerks and if there is any way, may be, give them our book? I dont know something that might help inspire them to see that there is an alternative and I think that's the big that we see in organizations and leaders right now is that too
many leaders, I think her habitual in terms of how they think they're supposed to lead and it's not working for them is not helping them is not helping. Their teams is not helping them I and I think what we're really seeing as there's a new wave of we need a new way of leading. We need a new, way of showing up, which is my more about being human, which is much more about being real, being mindful being selfless being a passionate, and it seems anyway that a lot of other people from that- another leader that supports that is a better role model and see if they would be meant that person or connected them find some way. The other books, and I know that you read none of your order together. One second head, yes, said you solo not together together. Okay, so tell me about that, but we do want to. U can so that so that's kind of readiness, started, that is really about incorporating mindfulness into all daily work activities. So we talked about Emil's enemy, things and sleep in the privatisation and so on those be reading a book about how to become more effect
and therefore more calm? Work here minded more creative, more resilient by you? Listen! mindful, as you know, in a fast pace, busy business life, you you ever struggle and implementing any of the reform. I would be lying if I said no, I kneeling ever struggle Fairfax ever struggles and how it is I mean relieve the lives of our clients. Don't we run our global organisation, so we have emails coming in an all time zones. We have meetings at all times those we are managing around five and lied share clients, three giving their life or travelling most of both. It was probably two hundred and fifty two hundred days a year, so we know the reality that they are in? We always managed to do everything that we say. Of course, we don't be ridiculous. What we are, I think, both of us one hundred percent committed suicide, eighty practice, because, without that it seems this things are falling together, falling apart, so how most? How much meditation do area
depends how busy it is if it's vacation, I think at least I go a little bit more lazy. I don't need as much, but when it's when it's busy, especially when traveling a lot is at least twenty twenty to forty minutes in the morning. Do you ever get relief? our time I would say, or do not have this non my culture down so, but I think that what I find is that ethical, Erasmus was saying about the practices. I find that when I'm I can tell, I think what the practice has given me is. I can tell what I need to pull away, and I think that's probably one of the most valuable things that the practice has given me? Is that effort, if I'm a meeting and I'm starting to notice wow. You know I'm starting to feel a little bit of tension in my body or I'm starting to feel a little bit of frustration arising. I've practiced enough to know with that. I can see it before it takes takes over. and I can say you know what I'm so sorry, but I've gotta call.
this meeting an enemy. I really seriously light because I know that I am whatever I'd say next is not gonna, be my best self, and so for me, if, if people don't barkeeper well, I think that for it, because if I say you know what Dan I really. This is really important to me and you're really important to me and this conversation is really important meat, but I'm not in the right had space to have this conversation right now- and this applies to the toddler- maybe not solid. Sorry just had to throw that in Kosovo there was cute But this applies I think, in the workplace, but also in all of our social interactions. I if it is so important for us to be able to call it and to say I am not be my best self in this moment. So can I just go? Take a break to be able to me Sure that I can clear my head and I can come back be able to be more com or clear. More focus, I'm not just react. If I want to be responsive to every moment and if I I can't be than I should do something about it and take responsibility.
One, would concern. I have we on the ten percent. Have Europe we have a communications coursed and the teachers is amazing. I orange sulphur who's been on this progress at least once and one of the qualms. I had production of that course. I would run I through peppered him in the videos a lot about this, and I would put the same question you guys, which is: how do you implement this stuff, especially around communiques without sounding a little programme without sounding a little earnest with this. You know like This conversation is really important to me, you're really important area. To her I mean, I think, those an effective things say if I was in the receiving end of that, I would like it, but I so I wonder whether I think we'll okays is that seer wars that you know or is, that is that you know, Gee, so earnest election, you know, can drop enough Bob Order and Carlsberg or whatever so you think use.
Cameroon guy gets hold. I understand you're getting and, I think, FED Tim from our perspective, I would say That's why so important make this part of the culture, because if I was the author one doing it. It might seem weird it might seem counter cultural, but if we all have an understanding of our crazy minds right, we know that we get distracted easily. No, that when we're reactive, when we're emotional when we know that emotions are a huge part of our lives and there are huge part of our work. We know that Sometimes times that cannot help us beer best sounds if we can make them. Not just me being earnest, but actually being ass, being effective as a team, and we can entered use the language of attention of ammo. A regulation of response versus reactivity. Then I think it becomes not so weird, so I totally agree with you if it was just me, it might seem weird, but let's make it part of the culture because it can be beneficial for all depends on the whole culture word and is not such a bad thing. But I
What I would add that is also to meeting mindful is not about not being tough is not about not being fast to mean mindless is about being This is about having a mental velocity and and and and agility that can allow you to switch from being really focused and calm in a conversation and then you have a conversation requirement that requires that you bring some toughness into. That is actually no contradiction between those. I dont think that mindless about being soft fluffy oral, beard. It's about doing the right thing and being aware of was the right thing right now and I can be really fast final question from me and I know he has heard a million times, but what about the beef from the mic? Mindfulness crowd, and I actually think some of these folks do serve Buddhist purists. I have a point
That is that the debate- in other words, their argument, is that were turning mindfulness into mic, my fulness, by bringing into these corporations focusing on performance and perhaps playing into the desire of management that have happy compliant super productive employees, which you are taken. critique. I think there is, I think, there's value to that for sure and and coming from a buddhist background myself and having been a researcher for years. I totally by into that, and at least in theory, two things, the compliance, we don't see, people becoming more complaints, we see people and we have worked with hundreds of thousands and I personally work with at least a few thou.
people I see, people becoming more self aware and standing more up for what they believe is right. So I have seen people going against ethical or unethical decisions in organisations because mindfulness simply allowed them. They could not just sit and watch that subtle but even in the compliance Yale now are you really makes an alien? No, it's not it's totally, not like that. it's pretty good thing about area so that that's one thing I thought I don't believe in the compliance thing. The thing about is just going to turn people into. I would just feeding the dragon here with just making people more productive and I think the risk of that, and it depends how you teach the mindfulness. What is that you bring into the teaching of the actual price, Yet, if you it in all this, like canadian stuff, around compassion and kindness and being present for other people, and so it s not just one second
head with eurozone I'll be able to respond examiner. So if you do it just for that sake, I think it's a complete, missed opportunity of creating something positive in the world now go can or cannot. I thought you wanna bite it that apple before we go I would just say that I think that, for me, the big thing is is the way that were working today. Is it working for us and if its not working I think that this is what we see a lot of organizations, they're not embracing this, because they think that you know we'll make their people more productive or the really looking at this, because the way that were working today is not effective and the idea of being more focus, more com or clear minded. Well, actually, I could actually be nicer would be a nice place to work, and lo and behold, it also can make us more productive. German. Your time is good because for me, some of the ways
We are not working for me, so it's good to have the conversation before we go. Let's just plug everything you ve got. We will ever wants ago can just be given all the books. All the social media handles the websites. Where are your research this: we re really not a commercial company were set up his eyes in a not for profit principle, so we are not here for the commercial gain. I have to say. I have a set that if anybody's interest in bringing mindfulness to their organisation because Food W W W potential project that com revival once every three europhile we as you bit, we're with based companies is founded in Europe's us, a different, a whole different structure, but it's it's a nonprofit is not. Operate on not for profit principle means that no shareholders getting any any any returns is no profit paid out. No bonuses is pretty low salaries. Everybody. who believe so much that the methods of mine from the south and compassion should be free available to everybody. So we doing this work because we really believe its import
what we do in a very professional, not enough in China? Where is the more yourselves in New York City and we are getting a salary and, and the company is paying for the expenses, ok, yeah and books. Once I get one second ahead and the mind of leader from Harvard yeah great books written. I right thank both really Brigitte Ridge. Up thanks, thank you, Danbridge Suited, thank you too Jaclyn, Erasmus for common on the shore I learned a lot. So, let's get to the voice mouse! Here's number one I then my name is Julie, and my question is focusing on the breath is always been a bit difficult for me because, as soon as I started, focus on my breath. I eager hold my breath, or I believe, a late, and I dont know if this is ever been addressed. Him
any kind of meditations work. That's out there, but I fight hard for me to focus on my breath. Is there something else to practice meditation that you can focus on beside you thanks Dan thank Julie. The good news is this a super common and yes, there, many many options you can focus if he, if, if feeling the breath coming in and going out, makes you anxious or something. you hold your breath or hyper ventilate or some people feel like. Even if we're not getting an anxious response. They worry. We had another voice, mail that were not playing on the show this week, but it from a young man named Jesse in San Diego worries that term that he might be controlling his breath too much. I've I've had that issue before so there are lots of other ways to meditate. You can just focus on the feeling of your body sitting and then, when you get distracted,
again or you can just take one spot on the body like you're. Your bottom on the cushion or the feeling of your hands touching one another or if you ve, got them come together, so the body is a great place. To go? You can also do body scan meditations where you started. You know that your head and work your way down to the toes you can focus on sounds you could do open awareness where you're just focused on whatever naturally arises, and then, when you get distracted, you start again, you can do of inclined meditation? We have all of the aforementioned flavors of meditation on the app. If you
more granular advice about where to find specific styles of meditation on the app use. Your coach lot of users and art really tuned into this, but if you use the app you get a coach who will answer questions very quickly, just go to the fine, find your coach within the app and type in a question, and she or he will get back- you look it. He split and they love doing this and they will get as deep as you want on any question about which you are curious, so good news for you Julie thanks for that question. Also, thanks to Jesse Other, were not playing your voicemail. We appreciated both of those questions. Here's where small number to idleness suggests in calling on the item on carriers in Canada. I had a question and a comment:
Maybe I sat with the question of free stare at always. Thank you so much for all the work. You do. You really deepen my practice and introduce me to so many here then teaching that are really at changing life. So my first question is about lineage and how you feel about Lineage yak is obviously in the west. We we don't really think about lineage very much, but if you're approaching a robust perspective or even trying to find the right you're, you know these considerations like do you daddy with a terrible and each year do said he with his. Then he chaired you study with evaluated each year end and am in that lineage importing or already he teams and the assertion that politicians were imported anyways. It's a question. I been thinkin about a lot in. torn between different Lenny did at different times. I was there. I wondered what you thought about that for my comment. I was just really add
and by the voice mail on your king episode. With the lady who is talking about her issues with anxiety, dream, editing, and I M actually one of the cultures on the temperature happier up gave me such good advice for this, and I wanted to share it and ass. She was saying when, when anxieties, you know come up, Orient a strong emotions Emma Jane embedded, you know you can note it MA, am note how it feels and then you can kind of method vision at that point, whether you're goin you returned here for gas and can decide that she'll, be there or really die, then to be feeling the emotion and accepted, and she described as kind of like White water rapid site just a year. being the curb, are you gonna? Go for it or not? And maybe that's one approach that could be helpful, because this fast you're feeling superstructure.
And that anxiety emotion, is just too powerful. It's totally. Ok, just noted and say: oh that's, death, remember, Tangier focused and then some time you might be able to give its bladders anyways. That was a very long message by thank you so much again, and I thank you for it can you do that you so much to respond to their? I think I can do this pretty quickly on the How to deal with anxiety in your reminds me of something Jeff. Warren has talked about the teacher Jeff worn, whose quite popular in the EP, which is that you can focus in or focus away. So if you ve got strong emotion like anxiety, one move is to focus in do as the coach you who was consulting with with Justin, said you jump into the internet. Rapids and really examine what it's like this feeling of anger, anxiety or fear.
and in so examining at you you, you can break it down into its component parts of what kind of thoughts come up, What's it like in your body and ultimately that can lead you to seeing it as both impermanent changing and also impersonal, and that is a great way to unhook from these often massively powerful emotions that that we think are ours in some way. But in fact, are just these passing storms them that we don't own really in and they don't have to own us. The other is to focus away. Focusaid would be the dive into the thing. Focus away would beat it to focus on the feeling of your breath coming in and going out making a note every time, anxiety, yeah, it's really prominent, but you instead you're going to stay with the often calming features of
of the breath? So those are too, in my experience, great ways to work in those situations. I'm glad the coach gave you good advice, I'm not surprised, because our coaches are really highly trained met it writers, but your question had to do with lineage so should lineage be important when you're picking a meditation teacher, I'm gonna give you my opinion. That is just one guys opinion my it is in that it really about the teacher. Do you respond well to the teacher? Now, obviously, Lineage will be enter mingle without another. Other words, the you know your feelings about whether you relate to somebody impart willed will speak to that persons
in all predilections in their taste, and the type of practice that they may have gravitated to towards will be the type of rights that you would gravitate towards a gravitate towards. So but up for me, it's really just about the person first and the thing I'm always looking for it. I said this in the Pike S house: what s two things: one is Do they have a real back rather extensive, grounding in practice? Have they done this for a while? Have they studied it seriously? Have they done a lot of retreats? Who were their teachers that to me I was very interesting and then
What are they like? This visit did he seem like their pudding precepts of the practice to work in their own lives. I'm always interested like how seriously do they take themselves to me that you seems like a really interesting data point, because if, when people take themselves to seriously GIS, that's somehow just said my aunt Hannah go up when that's the case, just by waving exampled Joseph Goldstein, whose you have been practicing meditation for fifty years also extremely popular in the temperate and happier app also, my personal meditation teacher, also a guy who's, never showed up on this past, although we are doing it
together in April in Boston, which will be on this podcasting you'll get tickets that if you google it. I forget the link out will put an show nuts but its if you just Google Dan Harris Joseph Goldstein Boston event. If something should come up its put on by the Cambridge incite meditation centre, see I m c to benefit foresee. I am see, and I am ass. The insight meditation set society sets in Boston in April. You should Do it and then he'll finally be on the podcast as soon as we posted anyway, I digress Joseph doesn't take himself seriously at all if he takes the dharma seriously. He takes your practice if you're in one of his students very seriously, but what he's talking about himself he's incredibly light in that to me just seems like a really interesting data point. This is just one man's opinion.
on the question of lineage. There are many flavors of Buddhism, as you listed some of them just in terror, vodka, which is called the old school there, Zan there's tibetan and then even within those. There are lots of little nooks and crannies. So an end, and you know major schools within Tibetan Buddhism with within Zan within terawatt us, so I these things are interesting, but personally it's really been about the teacher first. For me, the one other thing I'll say in- and I I think I have said this before, but it bears repeating that people when they get excited about meditation, often want to assume Hoover up everything, but I would argue that when you're going to? U knows when it comes to your practice in your teacher, I would pick one thing to start with one school, one teacher one practice or one set of related practices taught by.
In in a particular tradition and really go for that for a couple of years, rather than trying a million things all at once, because it's really hard to know what working, when you do, the latter, when you're just doing everything at once and then what you have a grounding in one type of one lineage per se or one teacher one style, then I think doing a little taste testing from there. So I think it makes sense to do taste testing at the beginning to really get a sense of look. What you're, what resonate with you and then to commit for a while, and then they might want a pop. Your head up and look around. Do some
parity of practicing. But again, that's just one guys opinion really appreciate these voicemail guys keep coming and, as I said before, we are now going to or soon start having teachers answer the questions, and I am told that the first teacher who's gonna be answering a bunch of questions in the very near future. We got a ringer for this one share in Salzburg, one of the most important and well known, eminent and level meditation teachers on planet earth. Thank you for listening to the ten percent happier podcast. We love that we ever growing and engaged audience with vat next Wednesday with another show. and when I say what I always say it in the show, but please not dismiss this as a perfunctory thing, if you go on to your, where are your pike ass? We go onto the player and
you gave us a rating and a review, especially I mean I'm just like somewhat biased towards five star reviews that you know I'm not trying to put my thumb the scale here, if you give us a rating or a view that really helps us in that rankings, and so it makes it easier for people to find the show so doing that or telling people about us and social media. All of that is incredibly helpful and helps us continue to do what we do and we love what we do. So please, if you got a moment that I want to thank the forego the producers of the show, rang Kessler and also Samuel Johnson, and we will see you again next week, If you have ideas for guests hit me up on Twitter, we really do look about at Dan. He Harris Caesar a person in America who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona virus pandemic, but it every community there are pockets of people.
We're suiting up every day. This is my my day last day of the cylinder stretch of quotas from one of our time, these or America's essential workers, the people who are keeping moving. I turn into a homespun mom and now in a new plants from ABC News you gonna hear from damage I actually went back to my office and saw a crime, because it's not fair hearing here, making sure that our community to sell faintly moraine. This is essentially inside the from the. Emergency room, the police cruiser to the czech outline. You hear what this pandemic sounds like the people putting. selves norms, which is always a risk that I could breathe is home to my kids or my husband, or my parents listened to the essentials inside the curve on Apple podcast, refitted, podcast, em,.