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#189: Type A Nun, Mindful Parenting, and Natural Awareness, Diana Winston

Diana Winston first learned about meditation as a kid, but it wasn’t until she traveled to Asia following college that her practice really took off. She has been practicing mindfulness meditation since 1989, including a year as a Buddhist nun in Burma! Thankfully for us, she has returned to mainstream society where we can learn from her teachings. She’s been called one of the nation’s best-known teachers of mindfulness and has taught mindfulness for 20 years at hospitals, universities, corporations, non-profits, and schools in the US and Asia. Currently she is the Director of Mindfulness Education at UCLA Semel Institute’s Mindful Awareness Research Center (MARC) and the co-author of Fully Present, the Science, Art and Practice of Mindfulness. She is also the author of Wide Awake for teens, and has published numerous articles on mindfulness. In our conversation, Winston shares stories from her own practice, including her time as a Buddhist nun, as well as what she calls her most challenging and rewarding practice - trying to mindfully parent her nine-year-old daughter. The Plug Zone Website: http://www.dianawinston.com/about_me.html The Little Book of Being: http://www.dianawinston.com/ UCLA Mindful Awareness Research Center: www.uclahealth.org/marc Twitter: @dianawinston “Just This” Talk by Diana Winston in the Ten Percent Happier app: https://10percenthappier.app.link/EPje4jnDXW ***VOICEMAILS*** Have a question for Dan? Leave us a voicemail: 646-883-8326
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
For maybe see ten percent happier Vodka Dan. All right today on the jewelry to explore what may be an antidote to striving, org I too hard in meditation the common problem, a struggle with it very much still do today, this ok- is something called natural awareness and aid has been incredibly helpful for me. that's how we're gonna do on the show today, our guest, the same guest, gonna talk about natural awareness is also going to tell an incredible personal story about going from the Ivy League to shape. her head and becoming a nun. The guests, her aim is Diana Winston. She did not it's worth saying Stay a nun forever, she's now out here in the real world she's the director of mindfulness education at you see, allays Samuel Institutes, mindful of Baroness Research Centre as she's, been called by the
I lay times quote one of them. Since best known teachers of my fulness, and that is true. She has taught mindfulness the 90s in hospitals, universities, corporations, nonprofit schools, both here in the U S and in Asia. An on line- and she is now one of our new teachers on the ten percent happier app and she has a new book- called the little book of being practices and guidance for on covering your natural awareness. This is a fast waiting conversation I loved it works start with the river, story of how she went from the Ivy League to a shaved head? in Burma and how that add her to emphasise a part of meditation prayer. about which many beginners don't off in here it's called natural awareness, and I think it's incredible useful, There were to talk about a huge issue for many of you, many listeners, how to bring meditation into parenting. Diana has a nine year old daughter and she has great insights about meditate
and parenting and the limits of the former as it as it comes to as it pertains. The latter, and that word is a big problem facing the marvelous world, which is a lack of qualified teachers and what you do as a meditate or if you want to find a teacher. And finally, we are to take your voice, males better before we dive in one related item of business this week we are adding. You may have noticed this- we're adding some bonus content into the pie cast feeds. We posted two things: the boat, Its content is a brief talk directly from Diana Winston. It's called just this this time comes from the new talks section on that. percent happy rap, app worshipper excited about this feature on the app It consists of short talks that are there. and to be little saps of wisdom that you can access. When you don't have time to meditate, you walk into work, your brushing your teeth, often the time when you might be losing a pike so check out Dianas new talk in your pie cast me: there's also a linked,
The talk within the show notes. way. Diana has other great talks and guided meditations on the ten percent. Have your app another talk from her actually launched today in the EP in its called kitchen cabinet mindfulness already enough. For me here is Diana greatest. You thanks go to be here, I didn't know, even though we met before that, you were none at one point: a buddhist none. So I'm just here How did you get into meditation in the first place and how did it get so far as it a good sense as that, yet that you became a nun ok, so bad when I was a child. I had Emily that was kind of it was the ninety seven needs and they were really into alternative eastern spirituality. Right though it wasn't, I then that into it I mean I was in her. Kids obviously rebelled against their parents, so point my mom gotta thirtieth mantra when we were, I was nine, I think
and my brother was sex and this is a true story that you know. If you got at him under your told what ever you do, you may not tell a single person about it so much cousin, whose lovin older than us really wanted to know, and my brothers soul has mantra fer a hotly though I this kind of in my growing upbraid this interest, and not maybe limitation per se, but in more like Eastern thought and then after college. I ended up had some experiences Does the child which were kind of meditative experience? said I didn't really recognize, and but they were amazing, you know like, like experiences the one that I I think I wrote about was about being about ten fourteen years old and lying in this field, suddenly, having the sense of like great vast love overcome me. And I was you know it's a teenager of what is this and I was thinking
I must hate somebody this I can't be loving. Everybody must hate somebody. So I thought about this. When kids, I really hated, and I couldn't even for him, and it was just like this this like depth of connection, but then it was and it was sort of those about it. An and in my after college I was travelling in Asia and it was kind of an interesting time because it was the eighties and pretty much. Everybody that I went to college with had gone to law, school or business, school, and so is very weird that I was interested in going to em in going but I went I had. I had spent a semester abroad and Thailand when I was a good in college so I went to. to India, and I was travelling around and ended up in Dharamsala. Where are the Dalai Lama of government in exile, and I got involved with a activists group- and I was very political on- I was not into meditation at all and
and then I remember like everybody is meditating around in everybody's into at the hall at the scene there, and so I dude. doing a like listening to teachings, and I was really skeptical and I would sit in the back of the room. It's like these big bars of chocolate and open them up, and Uncle conquering God. Who is this really? I was rude and and then something went. Oconnor meditation retreat, pay some I'm like I'm just set of college. I was already driven like really view, a driven in school always trying to get the egg success. Do you know do while very you notice, like a very Taipei, a kind of personality and out? I sat in this matter his retreat- and I have this moment where they were giving a teaching about you know it's called the eight worldly Windsor let the changes in the world right, and I may probably person others like race,
present. Blame game and phase dishonour and pleasure and pain yeah. I should really love is concept because we get so we we take it personally when you know where blamed you know where the moment where were unpopular or something to check your if you're somebody used a public figure check. Your at replies on twitter or yet the flip side of that is maybe something nice happens. People takes a nice things, but actually, if you can view them like the wind here, these are they Eight worldly winds and the Buddhist speak at knave away you think sound pretty grandiose. But if you just look at it like the wind and needed a deep personalized like I had this happens there it's just something that happens in every life. That's right, yeah that I'm in such an amazing teaching- and I heard and it was it was the first like there was this moment when I went I got this explains my life
like I'm running around seeking the good stuff, China and mostly praise trying to get people love me trying to get my teachers to think I'm a good student, whatever it was, and I was like seeking mountain running away from the other when in suffering a lot in the process, and I then so I heard this and something collect and then there she said, but there is a way out, and that is too meditate and this quality equanimity that we can develop its. We practice- and I heard that I went. Ok, I'm in, and so I was twenty to twenty one, twenty two, jumped in and started meditating and within and stayed at the monastery there in practice went to Thailand because I heard there were cheap meditation retreat. premeditation that you could do that to Thailand in my first insight, meditation retreat robust
a with John Buddha Dasa? Who was one of these amazing meditation masters? I was so lucky to have sat with him in the eighties before he died. And I just fell in, and so there. I, when I was at the monastery practising this, was just like a tender retreat. How did you like it, but I met this nine and she said you do. I can I say I, like and she said well, there's this place where you can do a three month tree in Massachusetts, and I said I'll never do a three month or trade? Are you kidding me, but I ended up a year later, during a three month retreat at I am ass, which was just a few as for my home inside meditation society Though I am so anyway that was kind of the beginning of my practice and because I was and things were cheaper backlash and you didn't have to pay thousands and thousands of
dollars for rent- and you know you could live as I just I just practised and spent that a number of years in and out of meditation retreats and then wait or stay to make money psychic on my next retreat, and then I got involved with the biggest peace fellowship For many years I was running a programme for them bringing activism embarrassed practice. Together, I moved out to Berkeley so I saw not answer in question, but anyway I got, I became an for ten years. I have been practicing quite a bit with some of your teachers to surf called Steen, and- and There is that I am ass, but I had also been a student of science open data, who is the monk from birth who is very influential with our teachers I am he kept saying, come to Burma Come to Burma and become a nun, and I said now:
like the same thing- I would say no, no, no, and that of course, I do it like I jumped then, and am I spent so. Unlike the late nineties, I went to live in the monastery and I spent a year as another, thinking, I would only go for six month. Thinking that ok, I should get everything I won a complex done in six month. What did you want to come? I was wanting to get enlightened. Of course I wasn't. I think you know this system that that this, these come out of me found as though pay enlightenment is this something if you just do this this this enough- enlightenment can happen, and I was I was driven. I was still like. That's very type. A person and re China got China, get my able semantic at my age meditation, and I think I am I think I was attracted to the minute I mean I loved meditating like I was it- was the most amazing thing. As many of us know, I mean just now,
say my mind and understanding it in the depth of insight and compassion, and all that was arising rising. So I had wholesome Goodman, good intentions, but I think I also would like and now I've got to succeed, and meditation right. I'm gonna go to their like hardest play. If I could possibly go to with one of them, he was not like any woman fuzzy guy. He was a pretty hard core sort of dismissive slightly in teacher, but I wanted to get my aid from him. You know I was like really driven, so am I going into the story. I love it again so I went, I you know there I started, I was practising in this was like on the heels of many years of practice, and you know to become a nun and that culture like you can do it for fur I can do for a week. You can do it for a lifetime. It there's no rule, let there's no like minimum in us. I thought: okay,
this means that should be enough to get enlightened and then I'll go to the beach in Thailand and relax from hang out and then I got, there and people had said this monastery is the place to practice. you wanna get enlightened. This is the place to go, and oh I got there It was under construction and it was like a disaster. It was, it was so noisy they had. jack, hammers and tons of people and so much noise and directly all day long so meditating in the midst of that, and then I think, ok, it's nighttime, they're gonna, be quiet and then They would pull out the guitars and start playing music all night if they lived on the on the property or short extraction where Dorothea and M, and it was like another snakes and spider Harrison Scorpions and like it was insane receive music giant snakes, leaflike, half lizards
creatures and am lizard. six there is a name for I can think of it and mosquitos and bags and scorpions and San upedes in and then it was high and illegal. Really like you were meditating and assign offer a here and now, it was the food, hated the food, and I was always getting second, so I was like really really unhappy, but I, very driven, and I still it had to be there. You know like how to practice like there was something inside me that was so strong, so I practiced fur the I kind of got used to it like I got used to it in an oh and also just to say, when you become a nun you who shave your head, you wear robe and I supposed to way or possessions. I just put him into storage, and I
and you don't eat after twelve noon, which is fine at a certain point- you can't sleep higher luxurious beds, which was on an issue as they give you like us, lab to sleep on So why so? I was practicing and I spent I spent in. I was working really really hard, but I getting like really overzealous, you Know- and I started eyeing harder and harder and harder to achieve my gall emu and the more and so I started imposing these. Like really intends practices as our flag. Okay, I am only going to sleep a few hours a night, I'm gonna, but I'm gonna say setting up, I'm gonna do meditate for hours and hours, though time without moving, and you know I just started pushing and then this thing
this thing whatever I thought, enlightenment was, and you know it in I mean I've heard it talked about in your pack- has talked about in different ways, but for me I was waiting for some moment or everything would change and- and I would be like free from Frank essentially- and we'd get. I just got more and more driven. And the more driven. I got an alien, Imagine we haven't. I just totally totally fell apart without the the great hindrance in meditation, is dead right? Oh, I was I had it in spades like I really, and I know, teachers at you. I see this ignorance arising for you and you may want to, no, they actually encouraged at quite a bit. I mean it was a different cultural space and it was like they saw that, strong energy of desire in me as a positive thing, and I think it's it there was
the big mess? I'm sure if I had been practising in the? U S, I would have had a very different response from my teachers, but it was you know it's also differ like their young there, only seeing you every like three or four days so you're, basically isolated, I was practising in this little hut was in the middle, the forest and It was anyway it were. I wasn't well supported, let's put it that way and then site open data. My teacher wasn't even in town like he with his like. He was at that time very fast ass. He was travelling around the world. I would come back every few men and so I would have different teachers and they were all not really tracking. My practice, though it was, it was an ideal conditions. So will you say you fell apart? What that look like I stop. It was suddenly like this huge sir,
emotions that I had probably been repressing discerned the greatest kind of overwhelmed me and I was I was lost in grief, and a sense of failure- and I suddenly couldn't meditate it was really interesting. It was like I wasn't. I and even be mindful for one. Second, Just my mind was so chaotic, so going promptly. To imagine right, it's! It was at that point about six months of meditation and my mom it was so pressing. base and sharp and concentrated up until this point as I'd been meditating so thoroughly, and then I hit this moment and it was like. I couldn't meditate and I thought what's wrong with me, and then this like shame and self hatred and all of this stuff I was just flooded with, and it was awful and there was no psychological support right, I'm in the middle of this country, with like kind of stone age.
holiday ray. You know- and I won't say that about the whole country by at least in this monastery, and so I just can't- have like cried in women's her ball and decide Ok, now, I'm leaving that's. What am I gonna? Do I'm gonna go to the other I'll, go to Thailand down to the beach, and so I went After several weeks of vat, I went to see new panties, and I said you know, I'm leaving and he said fine leave, and then yes, but if you do the affliction and of the mind while overwhelm you, and he said that, and I was like oh right, reverie oh there you are so I I went back to my room and I just sort of like something shifted their Something that happened in that interaction with him, and I decided that I will stay and I went
but I knew that if I was going to say I was going to have to practice an entirely different way and there was what was really a case. So I have been practising like hard core hussy stone. Ve talked about that another podcast. But with this this noting practice right where you have to be mine. Everything every single mom error, not my drinking my way. Water bottles are good. Noting practice I do this than the present one of the South Bronx. I do worse everything up, hearing smelling, seeing thinking make a soft little mental note in your mind and it can get as I can only. I mean after a couple of days of doing this, the mining it very sharp. I can only imagine after six months you could exactly your mind- is just like a laser rate Why was doing that? You know he would be like. Okay, did you wake up on the in breath or the out breath you were having to ignore it? It would that granularity
and so it's like it's a profound and amazing practice fits very, very goal, driven as you can could hear from my side ray and its also its. A lot of effort to me mere make so much effort and you can get to these places where it seems like the effort relaxes but you're you're really working hard, so and so ass. I am planning to labour right around that time. There was a Why there was a cordon quote library in the monastery, which was basically a bucks, a bookcase with all these books by my halfway Santa who was opened eaters predecessor who really popularized this noting practice exactly and he and there was one book on the shelf, which was not Mccarthy and it was the tibetan book of living and dying by Soviet Embassy, which just say, I know so your emphasise a controversial figure and that book is quite amazing book.
So I am I so. Can I read the book and they said no, because it's not by my ass. He sat up, and I said I'm leaving I am planning to leave, can aid to three the buccaneers? Ok, you can read the book, so I got the buck and and I open it up in the book. Is it's written from the perspective of Tibetan teachings, which are really quite different in a lot of ways from these southeast asian things that I was interest that I had been practicing but much of it is that with that spoke to me, was this this totally different approach, which is that There's nothing got, there's no ago the mind is inherently pray here as soon as it is that there is, there is a goodness, an inherent goodness in us, and that grasping after some kind of awakening is like a it's like. I missed
like you, I, like you, you're, not recognising the goodness inside you and I, Read that- and I was like- oh my god, what have I been doing at me, now I want to say- and this gets later to know how things have evolved with my thinking about meditation, but it was this corrective. You know it was this major corrective to striving write it I sent em, it's not like one is better than the other. There does different ways are practising and buddy. I needed. at that moment, and then in the book is fair. With all these compassion practices and then also the practice of the tibetan practices of Zog chant witches more about resting ones, mind in its true nature, and so I started practising from the book and it was ass. Though everything began to shift we're doing compassion practices all day long and then resting my mind. Did you get in trouble
we're just now. I didn't tell them. I would do who, like five minutes of the insight meditated, practice before. I would go into my interview report that, but then they saw this change and meat, because suddenly there was what they knew, how miserable I was- and I was happy and joy, Oh and connected and rest and and it was like boom so that an imagine that you have a concentrated mind and then six months, concentration and then your dropping in this like profound letting go practice and resting the mind in recognising and here awareness that existing in every moment right and so so my mind just dropped and it was like a sorry drop means nothing but a way. It is open to this stage, of like profound wellbeing and connection and awareness of awareness itself and that's where its men began to stay for you know in and out, but for the next three or four months
it means where I want to keep going with this, but you are right up some concepts that I think are worth unpacking, and this, of course plays read into your new book awareness of awareness unpack that ok, though a whit so when we meditate, we can be aware of what we call objects of meditation. Implementation is our breath in our body, since thoughts. Emotion, says, are what we call objects of awareness another object, awareness that we dont typically pay attention to special when people are starting out in is that which is the awareness itself that which is noticing everything and and, and so you can turn your attention to a bit. I'm gonna give it be really specific like there are three is that I've noticed with students and myself that people tend to observe awareness,
they have awareness of awareness and one is the awareness of that in which everything is contained, so the metaphor for here would be our minds are like the sky. The awareness is vast and open and spacious and all the thoughts or like cloud to her thus before passing by, but so the instruction meditation for awareness of awareness is to notice the sky instead of the clouds Gaiden. can feel like I'm noticing the vast space in which everything is arise. How do you do that, though? I mean it's not easy easy, but it's like if I said it. If you were maintaining- and I just said now to start to notice the sky like you could turn her attention to the. To the here, We could add me we can try it of you out so you're, let's just do it with with space in general, so so just taking a moment,
connect with your body and its being present, and the listeners can do that as well. If you're driving you carry out exactly- And am let's start by expanding about fillets, open our attention to sound to notice the sounds around you and really let your letter sounds. turning to the sounds of furthest away sound that you can possibly here. And then notice in your body as if your body can notice the backup, our body in. Let your attention go to the back of your body and then imagine that you could feel out of body around into this into the space around your body. Oh,
His breathing and sensing and letting your body have a sense of expansiveness and then include the include the sounds too. And then, if you really want to expand, you can open your eyes It has taken the six if you can look kind, peripherally, opening peripherally and is really relax and often monsieur doing this, and if your eyes are open, might notice the space in between things instead of four things themselves,.
And just let yourself rest here, and it's remind you, that our minds are like the sky or awareness is like the sky, vast, open space, trust and all that's arising is just like clouds in the sky. I can just rest here. We should stop or in them the vote, one the way that you Joseph Goldstein was my teacher. The way he gets Students are one of the ways he gets his students to tune. To awareness of awareness is to just ask yourself silently a question. What is knowing their local I'm hearing noises, what is knowing these noises? Who is known businesses, and then you start look
gently looking for, with the nowhere course you're, not gonna, find it, and idea- is that in the not finding something important happens, which is you just you see that there is a kind of up in a positive sense like an emptiness there, and that Thrilling in like you for me. In my experience, you look at it. right there. You have to look too hard. You just noticed right away, yeah I can't, I am hearing a noise and I'm looking for what's knowing any name you might even layer on a question of like and who's asking the question an end. It throws you very quickly if you practice it enough into a space of of the kind of a thrilling vertiginous feeling of well really nobody home here and so on. This is an emphasised in the beginning. I know this is actually the your point. This is this idea of natural awareness which have written a book about and or awareness of awareness, is an emphasis. In most beginning meditation instructions and yet
it is very powerful and can disentangle you from some of the sort of attacking the object A rabbit dog is actually has been instructed for in by some teachers. You know it you get on your wrath like a rabbit dog you're gonna be you're gonna own everything that arises. You gonna know everything that arises. You gonna be aware of with you. Up on the in breadth of the outbreak of this much more relaxed practice and is I agree to it a corrective you can skilfully switch between the two: absolutely so Covington. What you're saying that, when we we're talking about your thing, how do you notice awareness of awareness so one of the ways as the one we just dead awareness, that Such a self contained. The second one is exactly what you are pointing to that, which knows so it's the same practice that I'll teach students to tat kind of look at the or see if we can find the knower or the notice her and then their way, people notice awareness of awareness is, it sort of me
like of an intuitive sense like your chest here, you're just awareness, just is it's like a sense of like presents. That's must not going anywhere it's here, and we can tune into that awareness that existing like where an were always aware like if I were to say to you down linked for the next. Secondly, dont be aware Good luck, try you and try. Ok, everybody! Listening! Try don't be aware: sequences He says, don't think about a polar bear. Exactly can't you can't I'll say there three little phrases that I've figured bologna wave, I think from Joseph who knew very well, one of them. That can I very much I really resonated with your story about the striving is that I have in my daily practice and on retreat. I often get to this point. Where am I notices? leaning, forward, quality to my practice, and so
on phrase us and has dropped in, just as if I said seeing that there's like a greeting of teeth happening is just the word effortless just yet to know what's happening right now is absolutely effortless This is the knowing is happening, without quote on quote me: he is just another thing. That is being no step this, hence I have of an inner Dan is just another appearance in consciousness, right, which is some vast, mysterious, selfless thing that is worthy of investigation. The other little phrase is this: when you use nowhere to go do you know or nothing to get and just to remember that, like I will, I am trying to to notice. I am. I am actually trying to get something here, but what's the point that's not your job in meditation right is actually theirs there's a settling back. That can happen. Then,
Third, one is a fact What's the it'll come to me during the course of the government, but these phrases are incredibly useful for me. I think, drive at what you're saying exactly- and this is this- is kind of how have developed some of the time. Things in the book. I column glimpse practices and what it is three to do at any moment either in your meditation practice, are in your day to help turn your mind in the direction of a more open spacious awareness and so one of the Asia. So you've already mentioned several that I invite people to do just really. from your, but you did it so it so. It's like, It's like when you have a receptive minded drop into the mind, some phrase that helps turn your attention to this, that this, this type of away
and it can be very powerful evenness am I don't? I don't use it specifically the ones you said, but the fact that the idea of using a phrase of some sort, like we might say, everything's happening on its own or something or one that I often how people do is just when they're mine, when that your men attained to stop and say, can I be with just this and then we open to what just this is without assistance and there's a dropping has really it's about letting go like it's a spoof, profound letting go. That can happen when were. resting. Our awareness were not hooked unto anything you know. So I m so yeah, there's, there's all these old tools that you can use that. I call glimpse practices to turn our mind. There and its really helpful to have a meditation practice that you can help to concentrate your mind and theirs it's not like these are better than the other, but we need them at different times, like that's kind of the point of my book that we can have
many different ways of practising awareness. I think let's have Then. Why are there so many things as Canada so excited to accept, and I love this stuff so good, but carry on. I think, like in the mindfulness world and even the way that I was teaching for many many years. There's an this is on focused awareness raid. bring your attention to your breathing when your attention wanders bring it back, and this is a tremendously powerful practice, and this is so many as our minds are all over the place. This is a way of coming back into the present moment in teaching us scale of being mindful and then, and then it does. stop. There are mean, as you know, most people like you learned open to other things, to your thoughts and emotions and to keep calm. back in moment. This is the typical way that mindfulness has been taught, but there's this
whole realm of other practices. That is also part of mindfulness. It's just more of the expansive spacious and of mindfulness practice. That's how I view it and then it seems to me my own practice and then working with many many students is that people go back and forth among all of them. So I call it us, backdrop of awareness practices where you can go from very focused too wide, open and analogy. I often use is like, if you have a camera, camera can take up show me the telephoto lands, it can take a regular old picture and it could take something with a panorama: clan and if we're stuck over in one area, we're gonna miss lots of ways of taking photographs, in a sore. Meditation can got very narrow, but it can be very skilful too. open to this more spacious, relax side of practice, but so item, I agree and I've seen so much of my own practice and working with Joseph, the knowing
There is a real Arden serve knowing when Sir its noticing, if you're too fast out, and you need to go back to a concentration practice where you just your breath coming in and going on there it having gets distracted starting again or if your two locked in on the breath or browser to tighter over everything noting, knowing I need chill out for a second and do a more open practice that there's a real art to that and having guidance from a teacher can be really useful way. this is why I wonder what you would say too. I think a lot of my listeners trouble with the idea of what do I need a teacher? I don't have it have. Access to a teacher, locally to have, and how do I know when to switch among these various practices? What would you say to those folks gotten hard when people are remote and don't have access to a teacher so. Personally, the suggestion is to see if there are ways to Gatt gain access. Like I wanna meditation retreat to or find a way
You know remotely to work with people through programmes and stuff, because that is hard. But if you don't have access, I think ultimately we become our own best teacher, and you start you have to experiment quite a bit like if I try this, let my minefields too tight, but I've learned the other type of practice. Maybe I'll. Try this right now and see what happens, and then they do that and oh ok! This is beneficial. This is working for me. I'm feeling more connected and feeling more spacious. Oh my mind is wandering all over the place. Let me come back to the present moment with a more focused attention. So it's a lot of trial and error when you don't somebody who you can just keep asking questions about I dont have a great answer: fur when people don't have access to teach her, because I think that, like
said in the long run down the road people become their own best heaters, and this is really important, but you always have to have somebody that you can get some guidance One thing I would recommend for if, if you're listener- and you subscribe to the ten percent happier app which, by the way is by no means compulsory if you're listener, but if you happen to be a subscriber, we have this function that I think is vastly under utilised. the people use it absolutely lever. There are most dedicated users. I forget, I think, there's correlation causation question there, but but that the coaching functions. We have these highly trained, very experienced coaches so you can text with, and it's asynchronous not going to get back to you right away, but they're going to back to get back to you quickly and thoughtfully, and you can ask an infinite. Number of questions is a limit we'll care they love there. I know these coaches, they love to talk to people about their meditation practice, and these are the folks that you can get in touch with and ask any
auction at any time, and I really think that would be a way of work around. If you live in a place where you don't have access to a teacher dont have the means or the time to go to meditation retreat. This will be awaited, Niggah cigarettes solution and it amazing that you offer that does not. Everybody does. Can I you know one of the frustrations of for me speaking personally. I've having app is that we have these coaches and people He will do. You sums have been number met. Thousands of our users use the coaches, but now everybody, and I feel like this is an amazing resource that more people should use. I remembered the phrase. The phrase is, I believe, the way teachers teach. The phrase is it's already here, meaning wit awareness is already here so you're striving to make sure you catch every fluctuation. Your belly every breath, etc, etc. But, like the awareness is our Here you need to force it, because if you
we are aware all the time I miss heard that as its all right here but both work. You know like it's every it's a rising you're right all right here, you ll have to be looking for the next thing or ruminating about the ass thing, it's like it's all right here. This is just it's, this incredible serve deleting sea of of of objects right. Here right now, and that's a great reminder for me when I'm greeting my teeth and try to win, admit it that's great yeah. So so I love these kinds of phrases that we can turn our mind towards some more more spacious, relaxed awareness and that's really what you're doing and, in the end, their use skilfully their use. Times when you need them and though, if our minders kindness
a sea in foggy and using something like that, may not make them a sense. It may be at that point that you wanted just really go a little bit more concentrated with your where attention. So it's it's an art, but the real issue. that's an art of meditation, but if you like at its away, we find this plan should just out of curiosity. What happened at the end of your retreat? Oh right, ok! So so I spent than three or four months practicing. This new way? doing a lot of compassion practices and an inner the thing Then I realized straight the thing that that was became so obvious. To me once I shifted the wireless practising was that this hall DR that I had to reach enlightened mentor. You know some kind of gold it was it because I didn't like myself? You know it was because I thought that if I could
Become enlightened then I would be always kind, then I would be loving. Then I would be a good person. what I realise that was so like so incredibly powerful was that oh actually, when I had to do, was learn to just be ok with myself ass. I was right and so that the practice was not about getting out. It was about deep embodiment, a going inward and becoming more and more myself and and accepting that end, and then the Maura, loving and accepting that I could be the more my mind and my irritation practice began to come back to life and to have the sense of like this tremendous. Wondering awe and connection and it started to be more like that very long ago, experience that I talked about when I was a child where there was this, these deep mom, some of love and compassion. So so, I am the last few months,
that retreat were extraordinary and I was having a wonderful time practicing and mostly practising in this way and they then I finally with psycho I've been here a long time and it took its. I mean I would I got to a point where I was I was. I felt done into an and pretty complete there. Stay tuned. More of our conversation. is on the way after this better help offers law since to professional councillors, specialised a wide array of issues like depression, anxiety and grief, conduct with their profession. Counselor and a safe private online environment. It's a truly affordable option and listeners can get ten percent off your first month by going to better help dot com, slash happier fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with the counselor you'll love.
your Bio says that one, the most challenging practices, for. You now is mindfully, Harrington a nine year old she's mine, I'm so I know this is a subject of great fascination for listeners. What what is it challenge for you in parenting as a meditation teacher, You know, there's always a different one. Every day, I'm actually it's a you know, I think, as parents, in your public space. They must go through phases. Sometimes it's easier. Sometimes a tartar end right now I feel, like things are easy but she's slowly, watching tween dumb. So I know it's coming but em. But for me I would say play. The practice is about staying in a regulation in my emotions and when I get
greater frustrated. Aren't you know and I'm trying to get her to bed and oh, no! No, it is by more minutes to spy ruminant unit and shoe, and it like lit the. staying centred and not going and to mean mommy and being. loving, even when I don't feel compassionate and inner. Those are kind of like that. That aspect of practices really important for me am I mean you can see. You noticed right, there mean mommy, is a story or tell yourself. Oh yeah, oh well, that's true. That is true and, I think that you know I mean, but I think there are more like there is less skilful and more scuff where his responding to our children- and I feel like because of my practice I have this- is the connection back into myself so that when I like, you know just like really stupid things, but like the other day, I working on a puzzle with her, and I had it was a big password really until these, like five hundred its puzzles and ahead spent. Twenty
minute separating out one area from another area and she kind of she was. I was born into it more than she was. She comes back in the room and she's like. Let me help and she takes the one of the boxes of puzzle. Pieces and dumps it into the other one and so completely messes up the everything I had spent the last time An doing, and I was I could just feel it was so trivial and so annoying, and I just could feel the ray coming into me like what I just didn't this thing you mastered up and I get a new and I knew and there is like the subtlety ways and like it's not a big deal right. It's just a puzzle and I could feel like coming through my body and an Emma because of my practice. I had arrived action you know I wanted to. I was I got. I was a mere Why did you do this and managers we and pause. they found my body and I just practice what now to do, and I come down within a few seconds or whatever
to be more a loving and we just laughed about it, because it was absurd or wait outside This is a great example: walk ass. We, I know for you. You said I practised what I know to do in over you. You know it. So it's in your molecules. Can you super granular, but what the steps are in a moment like that, because I think a lot of us could use the basic blocking and tackling hey, well it so it so if you're right, it is happening somewhere intuitively, but I I think the first thing I did was there was like. I wish I had my reaction like that, did not stop you know I mean we. Sometimes he will think when you What does you're gonna to not react, which sometimes happens, but. times, there is a reaction and I was like I could so the irritation in that I got really mad. It was kind of a super stupid. There was another, no judgment so so,
we're just turning your Taipei powers onto your puzzled. That's it that's a good outlet. Ok, so may I could feel the the what was happening in my belly and it was like this real, a strong sense of like burning, and I can feel it in my chest and I just I just turn my attention immediately. Inward to the sensations, and then I practised by giving as well again. It is a very simple way, just allowing better calm down. I recognise that I was right there in the midst of the emotion, and ay and, and then it just sort of its current began to calm so Really you know. Sometimes we teach students to practise stop like that's it. That's great acronym when were stressed out in its great for parents, because it only takes like ten seconds or even less to do like and stop it stop, take a breath, observe and proceed,
So so, and that's essentially what I was doing but mine it was little more organic, but I stopped I took a breath and then I observed what was happening in internally and in its really this that the thing that so important with their emotions is, if we start observe, the thinking mind and figuring out. Oh no, I think I'm really mad and I M so it it. It doesn't get lost. But if we come into your body and its feel what's happening in the moment. My heart is racing. My stomach is clenched. My choice tight, there's, a relaxing that can occur there's a re regulating of her nervous systems that can happen, and so it's it can be, really what was happening I was stopping, and so by the time I got to the peace, stop take a breath observe proceed. I was pretty relaxed I wouldn't say, very relax, but I was I had. I had regulated essentially- and so I like So that's I we have all these acronyms, like I'm sure you ve, talked
here about ream Ray the right. king eyes allow investigate and not identify with. That's all that is happening quickly when we're in the in the heat of the moment. But so let me just go back to stop. I get take a breath. I get observe you do you. You observe, what's happening in your mind and body like above them having self righteous thoughts or I'm. My chest is buzzing. What is about the observing that allows you to proceed? Sanely Maketh com, of the breathing the brass that comes us a little bit and then there's while it I am it's interesting, there's this research study that I think is really powerful, which was done by David Cresswell number. years ago, when he was that use the allay where he had people see see fit
says on a screen, mother brains, rubbing scant rate until they want to see what brain activity was happening, and so on he saw was that, so he would flash these these images of people who work third who were disgusted who were angry and then what people I had to do was label. They had to be mindful of their emotions, so they had to label that emotion, not was they were sing on the screen, feared disgust and then they were seeing what happened in the brain So when the person was was activated there there, a Mig de la lit up, so the amid Della is that that is what we think of the primitive part of our brain is that small almond shaped peace way way in the center of the brain, and it starts to big, be activated and people correctly labelled the emotion the prefrontal cortex came online and calm. The amygdala down is what the science showed rate, so it so it through the prefrontal. Cortex
ex, like the what we think of as the ceo of our brain rave, its responsible for executive functioning for delayed gratification, working memory, flexible thinking at impulse control, and so it seems, like the awareness factor, impacts that kind of the activity like that's? What that that study was showing now it's been replicated a little bed, so it's not like this definitive hair, but but I might be one answer to the question like what happens when you bring awareness to two what's happening at the moment, definitely over complicating and is being with a puzzled, but Pike ass, our natural zones for overcoming figure in a year and a congenial spot for application. I'm just trying to about me, I think. on the one hand, member, I had an answer to an ant say to me once them. She said sceptical about my father, she said I know what I'm mad and I did
quite know how to respond to that. I think I think The answer is that, if you observing mindfully. You know that you know you're mad, it's a mega awareness, a meadow cognition that says that allows a kind of keep the emotion at a distance not dissociated way but actually in a kind of intimate way. We like what anger is really like. It's the roiling of the stomach, it's the the they all of these angry thoughts. The my ears are turning read. You a kind of snuggling up in the thing, as opposed to running from it, but the doing of that, while it feels terrible allows you not to be so owned by it and so and react blindly to it is what is the before going accurate. In your view. I think that makes a lot of sense to me and in its that extra peace there your aunt published an have witches in your pointing to,
that the non identification part when we can be present with it and it moves from like, like an Her is like I'm overtake by anger, my anger into others in me, anger is moving through. Me there's more space, there's more. There is because, being my anger to the anger and that's a very powerful shift, and if we can, he might fall if we can just be mindful of it, even even for like one second there's a little bit more freedom is whether it is what I've explored in myself and with students. So it's it's one of em there's plenty to whose to refer to it as disentangled participation You had loved. Isn't that a great praise? I love that, though it
colleague were dissociated like. Oh, I am angry right, it's not that we were really fully in it, but with this measure of self awareness I think doesn't happen when you just I'm angry. You know, you know your anger, disentangled participation. So so that there is a way to do stop as to your ip, if your kids freaking you out or anybody's pissing me off or whatever to that's pretty soon. all you know, just stopping taking a breath observing you can do that cursory waged observe that your bike, These do not having is a journalist or whatever and then proceed, hopefully with degree of sanity that you might not otherwise have had, but then there's the neck. level wit where the o the of stop worthy. serving has some of the end from rain, which is not identification where you can see. Oh yeah, this is just This is the impossible. This is the wind to I refer back to the eight worldly way
is of anger in its blown on me right now. It's Boeing in me right now, but I dont necessarily have to be blown around by it. Yeah. That's right! That's the kind analogy! So do you teach York mirrored to teach her how to meditate sort of I do, but it's better if she learned. from someone else? I'm so glad to hear you say this because at almost every speech- he gave a go round of your last speeches in this and on the good ones, I get Q and a bad was. I don't have time for that. Are not bad it's just. I much prefer them sick of hearing my own story, but I really love talking to people about this practice end their questions, even though its dirty little secrets always the same questions, one of the five or six questions I always get. Is you have a four year old? Do teach them how to meditate? My answer is, and I am cut you off, so I apologise if actually want to hear your answer. Is I a
But I have this suspicion that it's gonna be best if I model the meditative lifestyle, mindfulness dedication to the practice, and that he learns from somebody else rather than me, teaching at which is gonna come, a lot of annoying stuff. I thoroughly agree I mean we, my daughter, has found the way to disperse perfectly make fun of what I do. I mean she's like shit, like you should go home. My name is Diana Winston. making fun of my meditate and then see My favorite was when she was little I was like you know. I was very enthusiastic, I'm going to teach her how to be had to meditate and so before I go to bed. I was going to bring her loving, kindness practice so Easter. This is like He was like, maybe the Marie when this happened may before, and so I said, Anne and so let's think of all the people. We want to send kindness to how bout grandma have Papa. How about energy- and so
so I say, may be happy grandma may be happy dad. She has made happy poop like okay. This is an hour gang and and so then I realize that it was Emma. Might one of my friends jokes and says she's gonna be the anti mindfulness profit issue, which may be true, but that there is an interesting thing that happened recently, though you are asking about mindful parenting and so was sharing. We started. We got off on the whole thing about the working with strong emotions, but one of them biggest areas for me with parenting is around my expectations of her and I won T maybe a certain way and timely, constant ego, and it's it's like it again I'll bet you know I want her. I love to read. I want her to be a really big reader. I like the theatre,
how come she. Then you know I never got to do dance. When I was a kid, why doesn't she become a dancer? You know it's like these stories we have about our kids and, giving in giving this look like. I know. And I M an eight and so much one of my greatest practices honestly as apparent is the aesthetic watching those arise and then the I think that letting them go letting them go all as because their constantly right that you should be doing that she should be eating lunch sugar. She showed and I mean obviously you parent your child and you keep them away from harm and so forth, but but the expectations and and then the coming back, into the reality of who they are and letting them be who they are so HU. I had this big insight into that, actually honour meditation retreat and about how that, like the importance of that for letting my daughter be herself, and then I get back
she had created amenities. Pitching it happened is that I was like ok. This is really weird, but though you talk but her making fun of ease. I, my son, I've camera, Rev, told these stories on this on the shore, and so I apologise to listen, already says. But recently I was given him a hard time, but something- and he looked You say you know your next book should be ten percent poop here. then then the earth and the other day were taken in my he's, go out of you. how he we were at a school carnival and I was He was so tired and we're trying to convince him to leave and I was carried for one ride to the next and he's. collapsed in my arms and I should posted a picture this moment that my wife took on Instagram and he said I'm not tired. I'm just meditate.
oh, so we these never meditated. When I gave you know, he knows how to use it against us for sure. When one of the things I want to ask you, because you you, you seem to have not brought this note, but I think I ll be able to recreate it, hopefully from memory, you're, one of you, one of your jobs your job right now is at the Marvel Awareness Research centre at you see allay- and I was I believe you guys have done some work at looking at whether meditation works with kids. and I saw something about eighty she d and teens and adults, and that was a study that was done through your centre. You have recall of the results of that. Yes, so is so
our centres, the my full awareness, research centre, although I have to say we are more of an education thunder than a research center, but we ve done about fifteen different studies over the last decade on mindfulness and the vote. First, one, when I got hired a you see allay, was to teach mindfulness fur adhd for adolescents and adults. Study that we dead end and it was it was. It was very positive. I mean the results were essentially like yes, people with ADHD can meditate. Yes, there are significant improvements and met in inattention that they found and particularly in with called conflict attention. So there are three different types of attention: orientation in Africa, but about the third one is conflict attention and that's the ability to stay attentive to one thing when multiple things are distracting you and so
and so that was the thing that improve the most in these in the kids and the adults, and I mean it was very sick statistic, play significant, so much so that some scientists looked at the dead and they said what medication did you put them on and we said no replace it with a t. It was meditation em. So That study again, not sure I don't think it's been replicated, but that was Atkinson adults and it was like an eight weak mindfulness programme that we put them through. There are other evidence is another question I get asked. The lab is there other evidence to suggest that teaching kids meditation can have salutary effect, I'm yes, there is, but I would say it's very it still. Really like the research on kids as early the research with adults. There's a lot, but it's so really early, but the kids even smaller, and a lot of the research has Ben done around behaviour. Aulic emotional regulation there's been some untested, taking unmindfulness, there's some
social, emotional improvement there is some on remember the research here. A lot most of its done within the context of a classroom, and so it there's a love like behaviour or stuff. That's positively impacted, so There is much to be done around the children's research and the tall very like a positive direction before we wrap this up, one of the things that I think we talked about doing events with you is taken fielding some calls from our listeners. You ok to do that. We can do that and Is there anything else? I should have asked you before. We now have a gay. What is that? What I did I just want to talk a little bit about about the centre. I feel I am the though work with international iphones teachers girlfriend ok,
Oh I so we ever centre isolated, is both in research and education and we ve been doing. Weapons programmes. Ass is for the greater LOS Angeles area and and O Connor. as you have said that with great to have you and also a lot were really embedded within the university as well, so we're in the medical school and the Sakaya. apartment, but we have a reach throughout campus, and so we free meditations for you, silly students all the time they can come meditate that can take anything we offer for free and we teach these classes called maps classes which her my full awareness practices are six week. Programmes learning might follow. And we offer delongs and events. There's a lot going on it's to spin. It's been this incredible gift to be able to share mindfulness in this context, really in a very thorough secular and accessible to any one of any background and one
the things that I've been doing for a long time is the is teaching teachers tree being mindfulness facilitator so ten years ago, training, people how to teach mindfulness within whatever their context is so what the communities that they serve and how can they best embody the mindfulness practice to go out into the it into their communities and teach This is absurd. Interrupt you, ain't gonna! Put it up. I want to emphasise this point. This is a huge issue. We have a supply and demand issue in my have on his business. We have a lot of demand for meditation and not a huge supply of train teachers and In order to be a train teacher, you get really deep, deep teacher. You do stuff like who did in your twenty shaver? Anglophone be unknown or among your half do, but I mean that people, the the grandmothers and grandfathers of of of the people we receive the most in the meditation world have gone off in
a lot of work on silent retreat, whether you good age or not, it's just a lot of work with their minds, and so I'm nothing every future has to do that in order to be sort of garden, variety teacher or to teach you know little kids how to do it. You can do vastly less, but but the supply. Very limited at the high and thereof or the deep end of people who can really who have spent by the time on retreat, and so we were in the pipeline is Filled slowly over time of a younger generation, but we need also people who in where your work is so important. We can train people to go, teach you know their platoon in the army or teach their kids at school or teach in their office, etc, etc, and so think what you're doing is really important. Think here yeah it's huge issue, what you're saying the supply and demand issue and then also the fact that, because up in tourism,
it's been unlike entirely unregulated. So, though, anyway, it can say that there are mindfulness teacher in or you can take a weekend workshop and say that you're mindfulness Egypt, as his gonna, stop you from not, and so that's a really important focus. Seven number of years of my work of I've been developing the international Mindfulness Teachers Association that went live about a year ago and it sir, It is a crime, the board and a credits, teacher training programmes and in mindfulness my felicity retraining programmes, and then it gives a credential to individuals who gone through those training programme, so you can have it for your professional use and it's also a membership organization. So if you're, a mindfulness teacher, you can join and then there's various benefits, including weapon hours and conferences and ways of meaning, holding community around mindfulness practice, and this is so.
important it so that the that you, that the quality of the teachers is really really significant, because if you're learning mindfulness from someone who's, it is not that qualified, probably not gonna, get her. But it's it may not go very far and am so anyway. That's a project that I've been involved with Fer a number of years and then spend right to do anything else. I must wait
Probably, but in spite of our lives, do some boys knows we gonna put our headphones. I came here. Let's see we can you hear me as I talk, we phones work and seized and apply whose Milner one again this is aiming calling from Washington DC first, they want to say thank you for your ears, parent. I have for a very long time with your pipe cast red lots of book about meditation, but never actually meditated, and it wasn't until I did the challenge and completed it that I actually did it for all of those days it around it with great, of course, having done that, but I know that I can do it now and fill that really meant a lot to. Thank you for that.
My question comes from that experience. Toward the end of the challenge was a session with Joseph about emotion and on a sound during that section that I was overcome by emotion. I actually cried the entire time that you spoke, but through his guidance able to watch myself and that back from an indiscriminate happened, it was a really cool experience by what I started to wonder was how that would apply in the every day. It seems to me that emotions are part of what makes us human and make us unique, and if what I'm supposed to learn how to remove myself from them,
in just a few of my emotions that maybe I'd become detached tory or emotionless, really just not fully feeling my life as I live at. So my question is more of a request. Could you talk more about that? An end how how to balance that learning, how to observe your emotions, but really still living your life and feeling happy feeling sad, but does not being carried away with those emotions. Thanks so much stand, I appreciate you do, but I naturally cannot talk to me. This? But I think it's worth because it is a huge issue. So I'll let you hold forth here and I do we answered it quite a bit in it. I think that. it's an it, does just to be really clear. Its practising mindfulness not to turn you into a zombie maim were not trying to make you be. emotionless its
What I found is tat, actually people have more access to their emotions and in a way that a healthy way, instead of like one in which are lost in it and feeling overwhelmed and out of its Control or I'll never get through this, which is what we talked about this identification. We can be mindful of our motions, which means not associated not turning into a zombie. allowing them to move through us, but yet feeling at the same time, NATO of feeling it but feeling it with awareness. So there's there's a beautiful. That was when we go back to the disentangled participation. It's a beautiful, approach to emotions. That's totally doable people, It is such an important thing understand because people often gets stuck on. You know this kind of idea dissociate
becoming a zombie, but that is not we're. Talking about its as rum does has said, you become a connoisseur of your neuroses, manoeuvred at the. U can handle them much more likeness aright. Z, Lister number two hey, then that is the wrong and I have been listening to your fat. Gaston have also taken your challenge, its great there you're doing all these great things about the medication
and also in all the role of the military aid you. So I can delay to you, then some of the groups that are on the hill and having said that, my hat liquidity today is that I know we're supposed to focus on the breadth and what I do almost subconsciously easier for me. If I controlled the breath like, for example, I will just breathe and ok. This is within reach out, but I believe we are supposed to observe the breadth that already happens, meaning we don't caused the bread to happen, so it's almost, but what I find is if I like it is almost difficult for me to figure out the natural bread going on it's much easier. If I just breathe and is it ok,
If I could do it that way, and if not do you have did that, I could use to observe the natural bread tat is going on. Thank you again for the great things you're doing and in our good luck, and I have a good day by so many well wishes the end which your internet question. So first of all, there are many different types of meditation and met like there are so many different meditation techniques. I always think of meditation, like sports big category theirs, hundreds of sports theres. Many many many types of meditation. So there are meditation practices where you deliberately control the breath and some of your country, yoga classes and you'll do that. Jaya breathing or something where you he then, in a certain way in this particular practice that I think it worth getting on the on the up its
the emphasis on letting the breath be at its own natural rhythm and for some people that's hard to do, because what I've noticed is that windows for some people they try to pay attention to the breath of waste. To control their breath. So there's a couple of things you can try one is try. Meditating lying down has oftentimes her breath. It's been in natural. Then it's easier just a tune in to the that breath when it's, when it's kind of and there's not a lot attention in your body sea can try that try exploring different places to notice your breathing. So you notice your breath. They r amp d man, you can try your chest. You can try your nose because they may be that one of those areas there is less trying to control it in its more natural and then the third thing. If you dont, have do your breathing as your main focus as your anchor of meditation. You can do something else, like listening to sounds as a great one that people often do and its
What to do if you're, in no, if you're sick. If it's hard to me with your breath or for some people because astronomers, something being in their bodies is heart, but listening to sounds just letting the sounds come and go it's a very powerful practice, though I would try a couple of those things. We would happen near enough there's loving hands practices enough there not to be legally for you, but in that and they were for me for a while- but I do all the time, so there are lots of ways to practice if you're gettin hung up on your breath. There are alternative, is noting yet exactly not sitting before Let's do what I call the plug zone. Can you just plug your book, your books? oh tells me, We can find you on the internet and elsewhere where we can learn more about your centre? You see, I said it's at ok,. So I have- site, Diana Winston dot com and my My most recent book is called is called the little book of being
practices and guidance for uncovering your natural awareness that just came out in March, it's available wherever books or salt. and it If you're interested in sort of what we were talking about during the first part of the package that then a troll awareness practising in a way that has more spaciousness and less effort that that's what that book is about I have another book called fully present the science, art and practice of mindfulness that I co wrote with a scientist. So that has a lot of the practicalities and the science of mindfulness, and my very first book I read along Toy though, is called wide awake, a Buddhist guide for teens and exactly what it sounds like and then my centre, it you see allay the Mai flow earnest research centre. The website is, you see, allay health dot, org Thus I am a arcy when full awareness, research centre,
and then, if you're interested in joining or getting accredited credentials by the international my fullest teachers association, it. I m t a dot. Org. Think that really great work on this really push. And also, if you want to learn or get more content from Danny Winston check out, the temperature happier up not to get into it, and you can hear the voice that damn her daughter makes one of her basing ever gonna not really push my pleasures and really fun. You really does have a great voice again tell why idle users lover so much thanks again to Diana Winston thanks to you for listening, no voice, males of course, this week, as we just didn't with Diana but will be back next week with a net. another episode, just as always, really like to thank our pie, cast insiders group, Who volunteered to give us feedback on every episode comes directly to me, and I really really appreciate it, because it has a big effect on the work we are doing here.
And I want to thank the team that produces the show Ryan Kessler. They will Johns Grace Livingston. Like these on the board today thank MIKE and will see you next week. there's not a person in America who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona I was pandemic, but it every community. There are pockets of people who were soon
every day. This is my last day of the cylinder stretch of proteins for one of our time in or America's essential workers the people who are keeping moving. I turn into a home school mom and now in a new plants from ABC News you gonna hear from damage was she went back to my office inside crying because he is not here and making sure that our community smiled faintly Lorraine? This is the essential inside the from the emergency room, the police cruiser to the czech outline. You hear what this pandemic sounds like the people putting themselves norms, which is always a risk of rain, is home to re. Kids are my husband Arabians, listened to the essentials inside the curve on Apple podcast, refitted, podcasting,.