Before. We start. If this is your first time listening to the ten percent happier podcast a welcome and be, if you like, the showed do me- a favor, take a second and subscribe rate, the podcast, and if you really want to hug me up Tellson friends about how they too can find us now, here's the show at his stand Harris. I am a fidgety skeptical news man who had a panic attack live on good morning, America. That led me to something I always thought was ridiculous meditation. I wrote a book about it. Called ten percent happier started an app, and now I'm launching this podcast to try to figure out whether there is anything beyond ten percent. Basically, here's one of obsessed with. Can you be an ambitious person and still strive for enlightenment, whatever? That means so much from Citys.

Is that if you had told the ninety ninety four version of me that I'd ever be sitting in talking to Rivers Cuomo from Whizzer, I would have freaked out because I may hugh long time old school fan of you in your work. I have everything you ve ever made. And I love it and it's a huge threat to be sitting in time. You thanks a lot and even weirder, that we're sitting to talk about where you were not music in your new record, which coming up were also caught talking a lot about meditation, which is a combination that if again, if you have told us One thousand nine hundred and ninety four me I would have been like that's awesome- that weird You are actually the first public figure. With whom I relate that ever even learn was ended. Imitation. I was reading an article about you. I think I do doesn't five Naturally, your meditating in a closet origin,

I then ok disguised lost his mind this way before I restarted meditating issue, which leads me to my first question was when, and how did you start meditate well. First of all I was meditating in school and as a kid My family was living on the statute and under Ashram in Poverty Connecticut. And every day we are maybe five minutes of mine, meditation seem like an eternity but is probably only a couple minutes, and then I switched to public school in sixth grade and of course, stop doing it. And you know every now and then, when I was in a crisis, situation. I remember to do some mantra worked. Com myself down is but I still had that instinct to do that. When push comes to shove gauges to fight for those, there may be some you don't wanna know what a monster

yeah well, it's just some phrase repeat over and over in your mind that helps to concentrate your mining caught. Commie down off in its sanskrit phrase- and I am sure that the I was I got some sanskrit phrase for mom such hidden under this is private profit like ninety seven seven or something when I was a little kid? What what what is sought you who, with such it, he was the they grew from India came and did the opening talk at the Woodstock festival? That's how most Americans would know him, but then he set up our Several places around the world, including one in Connecticut. And my parents were first involve with there I just resigned centre which is actually where they met. And then, when I was three or four they let em they split up from each other

and my mom ended up at the ashram in Connecticut and that's where I spent part of my childhood, so she went from serve a buddhist situation to hinder situation yeah and it's not like orthodox Hinduism is very reform. So there wasn't a heck of lot of lake, more blue multi armed gods, but you know the central central opponents of morality, Karma yoga working for others and met. Station and yoga without was part of our daily life. So you yet a kind of like groovy hippy upbringing in you yeah know it's weird, as I remember asking my parents when I was a kid, or are you guys, hippies

and there they would always saying no, they didn't identify with hippies. But then later I look back on a dislike here. Simply you guys pretty much hippies gas, all four square in, happy category yeah I raise your get up. A notch runs out in the seventies Salisbury Hippy yeah, I guess they got into stuff before the Word hippy was in time magazine though, and if they didn't associated with being a hippie, it was echoes a more serious, a serious spirit. Will endeavour and on so I think they they didn't like being labelled that later on. But so, it unclear to me? How much of this stuff really took root in you, because, as I understand it, is you gotta high school, you re got into metal and, and then formed wiser after high school so and you aren't meditating daily right

that's right. I wasn't meditating in until I was thirty two and it was actually the music that brought me back, because I felt like my my inspiration, my creativity, is drawing up and I I needed. I tried everything else I needed to do something drowned. Meditation seem like the last thing that was gonna help me feel it is again, but I tried everything else and it was recommended to me by summer night I respected very much Rick Reuben, who is producing a record at the time. So finally came around it and tried it again, then immediately. I recognise that it was. It got me back in the right direction, been doing it ever since it. What kind of meditation did you do when you started again Sea ice just kind of dabbling around here and there I didn't take up a mantra again, I think

think I was drawn to more meditation on the breath. I think I first heard about that in a book on and in ninjas years, who knows maybe thirteen is is like some book on the black arts of the dangers, and you know how to how to kill people with one move that sort of thing as really Interested in that, but anyway, it's in the way that no island phase on the brain but it said the way the ninjas would meditate is by observing their breath and counting their breath up to nine and then starting again. So I probably started like that, and I did. I read a few books and I'll shoot up. I can't remember that guy's name, but he was like a tibetan Buddhist meditation teacher he's not a Tibetan, but does a style of meditation Lama. Syria does know now.

I can't remember last in search of the name, if that's helpful, we'll get, there won't will think it but I read his book and anonymity the level it made a lot of sense to me and that's where I started realizing that meditation might help me, and so I went to his one of his retreats- is at Mount Baldy here in the Alley area and and every day he would Each different techniques so is kind of like a buffaloes trying our different things in. I think it was due to he taught what was essentially a passionate was observing sensations on the body in immediately loved it like a bell went off and it's like this is this? Is it I got to I got do this, At to figure out how to dive into this a hundred per cent and so I just heard asking around and looking on line- and I found though the website for a single in

Said he has centres all around the world in signed up for a course in. Two thousand three in I've, been doing everything every year ago in everyday practice that seem technique so and for the uninitiated and I'm not an expert in S and go and go, but he was a bit this man and indian business managed. As far as I understand it, who learn how to meditate from a monk in Burma. And then started teaching people all over the world his indian Hindu, but he grew up in Burma. And surrounded by burmese Buddhists. In you know he he hung on he, he hung onto his orthodox hindu beliefs is as long as he could, but then he was terrible problem with migraine headaches- was getting treated. Doctors around the world taking morphine, that's

thing and nothing was really helping him come out of that or deal with that. So eventually he ended up trying for passenger and are in recognise, did it was helping and went when all in and eventually became a teacher himself and then went back to India and stirred teaching it there. It really the technique really exploded there and then from there. Travelling around the world. Maybe around one thousand nine hundred and eighty he got to the US, started to send her there and, and then I found it two thousand and three and we went got him mall in is, as I understand it, yep in facts. Even before I sat my first course, I was already signed up for a second one. A few weeks later, I just had the sense that it was going to work in a dead so yeah every year. I've I've sat at least thirty days, sometimes as much as fifty or sixty days still yeah.

While this year amenity twenty, it's the first Urim and downgrading yet sir. We want to spend more time with my family and imbalances, gas, but you ve wife. You ve been married for almost ten years and you ve two kids, eight for yeah. How do you do that volume of retreat time said forming north of thirty days historically and then this year, in your current goddamn ready twenty two still a lot of retreat time and it is your wife cool with it yeah. She is she's supportive. In fact, it herself she does ten days, but it's definitely. I think it's been them Difficult thing I encounter on these courses is life worrying about my family and worrying. If I should even be there, I am I doing the responsible thing and Iceland and that's why I'm I'm going down to twenty this year

It's gonna, be better where I had a baby in December last year, so but fourteen fifteen months ago, and our first kid- and I did a retreat at nine months after that, my first one since he was born was ten or eleven day retreat in Massachusetts, and now I was It was a big thing for me to kept coming up. How much I missed him and yeah. I would do walking meditation outside, but I'd had it, but his baby blanket that I used as a scarf that kind of smell him I don't know if that was a good or bad move, because I was really thinking about him a lot, I'm so it to do twenty or thirty days navigating the politics of that month. When my wife and my job Anne and missing he images seems like a lot I mean you, you got it you gotta know that your family supports you and in your wife's supports you, you can't, I mean that's one of the thing. When you go to take one of these courses with single acre, there's application, have to fill out in its? Is this question,

is your wife's or is your partner supporting you? Does your family support you. If you say no, then you know that the teachers are going to talk to you, like. Maybe This isn't the right time to be taken. This course cause. We need you need to know the ear supported and any, Mainly believes you doing the right thing and because it such a hard thing to do, you don't have that hanging over your head, I may have been lucky that my wife has been incredibly support. It sounds like you have been to you to get back. You said earlier, though, that you, you knew, was gonna work and it did. What do you mean by work as for you well. The goal was to make better songs and a you know I felt like I was I'd really bottomed out around two thousand two after the third and fourth album in didn't it wasn't coming up with anything and then I came out of the I came out of their course in Sir

maintaining every day and going back to courses and serving at the centre and the ideas flowing in no it's hard due to measure success I mean I can point to the record we put out after and say is sought A song was nominated for Grammy herbs. You know a giant the first, Milon million seller on Itunes. That sort of thing I was made out, leave right yeah, but that's commercial success in that's one metric other people would say well, look I really bad reviews. So can you really say meditation was working for you and did it get out of his yeah? I mean most of our get better view that last one true that was the she reviewed record, we ever got

I mean I even hesitate to say, look see what method meditations working. I can prove it look at the sales figure, this review or whatever it is but I know I just know in my heart that if, if I was, meditating, it's I don't know if I could, if I would even becoming up with anything at this point, it's rare that for an for rock musician to be able to keep up new music that that feels exciting to to anyone at this late stage in a career. So I don't know I give I give the practice some credit. What about for? You is just like a dude at about the husband dad PAN made

did you think it's changed the way you are in the world. While it's hard to say I mean it's been. What what did I say, two thousand three. So that's thirteen years, I probably would have changed a ton anyway, but I mean just haven't. Take my word like I don't know. If I ever could have gotten married without this meditation practiced settle me down and get me focused on my core values. Had had a real problem committing to Anybody here as much as I wonder, relationship by this as we get you know, satisfied and move on. So you know I Like without the practice I went there and I wouldn't have these kids- I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to hang in there. And then again like men, how long this ban been together. Twenty twenty four,

for years now that, Sir, that areas of its oh yeah and that that Sir, that's something to be proud of its it's very hard to keep that thing going that four way marriage going in a no. I give I give the practice some from credit, some credit for keeping me come through any difficulties. They come up in work. Willing to compromise in and not like. This makes some stupid move, which is what I would have done before. I've read, and I don't even of these articles- that I've read or have any voracity to them, so you can set the record straight, but I've read it. Sometimes the fallacious ships among the ban members have been pretty tough, yeah, definitely yeah, you think it's approved as a consequence of you're having this practice. Not. I do and again it's hard to say like maybe we we would have

up and matured and become cool with each other anyway, but I feel the practice on its the accelerated their process and prevented me from doing something stupid like saying school You guys, I need you. Wanna go make a solar record that that sort of thing yet- and I do feel like the toughest times or are far behind us now, and we really enjoy each other and we were working well together. So what is your practice like now? How much meditating are you doing every day We're going causes requirement is two hours a day so an hour in the morning, our in the evening. I've done that every day since two thousand three, except for one day in two thousand nine winner, tour bus, crashed and you'd every badly heard, if I recall yeah. So I was unconscious that day, pretty good yeah, but you did the two hours the next day when you have an investment in the hospital bed

That is a staggering level of commitment I know you drive a lot of benefits for, but I'm just curious if you can just explore again for me the what is driving you to do that just keep doing it every day. I'm sure there are bad days where you don't want to put your butt on the cushion What is motivating you to keep going this thing never had a problem in all because from day one it was about the music in the creativity being an artist and that's been. The most important thing to me- and I know meditation- is the best possible thing for my creativity so yeah it's no problem and still for you, the drivers, creativity, well Oh yeah, I wonder about that lake.

Pretty early on within a year or two I recognized like. I was getting all these other benefits that I didn't guy cared about but yeah? I guess if, if you, if I get somehow got fired in, I was not allowed to write anymore, more music are put out anymore, music. What I still meditate, I think at this point I think I would a snake. Whatever it is. I'm doing it's gonna end up better. If I'm sitting, sitting two hours a day and if I go to these court every year. Whenever I am doing is gonna be better. Would you describe, as of now is a Buddhist? No, no! No! You think the school in which are studying. Go anchors, schools clearly Buddhist; no, it's! No! He makes he makes a point down tonight not comes off a bullet incorrect, it do think about things like enlightenment, idle,

you got a book in the bathroom I did notice now has just for fun hook on now I dont, even if, if practicing this much didn't give me any benefit in the moment. It was all about some day becoming enlightened that I could. I wouldn't have a disciplined. I sit every day because every day when they get it from sitting, it's like well, I feel so much better. So it's not well, I guess the argument round. Enlightenment, absolutely not an expert deeply deeply curious about. It is. You're never gonna get laid in the future because everything happens right now. So what the enlightenment. It's gonna be right now, so it's like waking up to this thing, that's very hard to see, but is always right here I find that idea intriguing and that effect I find to be motivator. I dont know if I can explain it better than I just did, or

I'm sure there's a lot more to it, but it doesn't seem like that's really on your radar screen, not at all it's just about creativity, better relationships, its work and thus far. Why stop it yet you Do you find it? You said there was no problem for you in the two hours David I about six months ago I went to two hours. A day in part, because it is because I talk to you and a few other people, I knew who had done two hours a day and with I schedule, and I know you have a great schedule to special. We non road. It's hard. You know I've given myself the leeway which you have not of of I can sit in whatever increments I want so sometimes I do a seventy five men. Eighty minutes it and then other times I'll, five minute or ten minute, and I just string it together. We do not do I happy I'll get his. I find that makes it much easier schedule was yeah yeah me too, like up icons,

we I can wake up. Whenever I wake up, I don't have the sun alarm and then I can sit as much as I can before the kids wake up and then I can stop and I can spend some time with them, get them off to school, and then I can finish my sitting and what about when you're our tore off first, Let me correct you. I dont have a crazy schedule. You dont know I'm we now have a very cheap schedule, and I like it that way. I would like it that way so on tour. Well, you know we have really been touring the summer is gonna, be our first me. Your tour in years. It's also can be longest, crazies biggest wherever soap. Don't be to say at the beginning, our aid, it's an hour in the morning in an hour in the evening, and then everything else has to go around that and there's not much else that needs to get done, sound check the show In an interview, maybe hang out with the family.

I'm guessing you're, not doing a lot of the things that take about a huge chunk of time on the itinerary of most rockstar switches, cocaine- and you know Heroin- Andrews and sadly wrote so you do have more time than the average rock musician automatic yeah in what. It says I found to be true, as it were: and once you start meditating that much you your time becomes, you may much better use of your time. You not just lying around watching tv or whatever, so you just feel more focused in you get a lot more done in the time you have. I totally agree that I thought there was no way I and be able to get two hours a day in and then the time just up and now, if I'm lying around watching tv when my wife, it's because that's what we want to do at that time, but it's almost like, maybe it's stupid in Algeria, when you play as a kid in high school. If you play sport, even though it up a huge chunk of your time, your life just hasn't,

order to it and that's thats impact. I found near the use you're not a Buddhist, and so maybe this question doesn't make any sense, but I have noted a you: have a real theme in your social media postings of skeletons which which to me is as somebody I guess who would describe myself as a Buddhist has allowed residence yeah, permanence, and things like that is. Are you It is thus guaranteeing unrelated any that we're talking about, or does it go to the core of it yeah my skeletons back there. I think I got that skeleton after bus accident. Actually, I wanted to see exactly where I had broken bones and as this very Trusting to me- and as I say, of other injuries going forward I'll, be able to look on the skeleton and see where they are but yeah. I think you know meditating twenty thirty, forty five days, EAST Easter,

to become aware of of of your skeleton and the inside of your body, especially like doing for passenger. Your observing sensations are observing your body your wherever of all the change in the decay- and the nature. You know that word constant change, dropping I'm there. It is the first Pakistan which embodies used a word from the polish, that's an original get used to it and each means impermanence and Polly. Yes, the language of the Buddha year in and there even was technic technique. The Buddha taught to some students where they would go to the charter. Ground in and just look at all these dead bodies and various states of decay, and you know, especially for those as they were, having trouble like being attracted to

two women and getting sexually aroused all the time it makes it hard to meditate does think about. You know the reality of: what's there beauty skin deepen and then he would just list all the various disgusting ingredients in the body, and so it's yeah nice to think about that from time to time, keep your perspective. There's some story, but I don't know I'm not going to be able to mail this, but there was a story about some monk back in the Buddha's. Time was walking through the forest, and he he had walked, as some of you woman had run by him. Yet running away from her husband and her husband finds the mark and said: did you see my beautiful wife and you I don't know, but a bag of bones past passed this way right. That's the story. I was thinking. I thank you I I don't think I know the story, but you know a dogma, romantically bitter arm down with a skeleton for sure, but

people I assume listening to this are watching. This would probably think, let's really morbid how'd. You responded. Well morbid is its emotional reaction to somebody there are some in no add ons or molecules iter. Ere you don't necessarily have to have that protect emotional reaction. Theres many reactions you could have, but it is my responsibility. It is the truth. We don't want to think about it and we we sequester are elderly away and nursing homes. The end at funerals, weep paint the body. To make it look alive, but we are in these fragile in permanent ice that are made up of all sorts of, as I think fluids and things like that that most of us find disgusting one but 80s.

Is the truth, the undeniable truth that we don't want to look at kind of like asking a cat to look in the mirror. You never try to do that with a cat or a dog that won't look But we will look at this fundamental truth and as a reminder, yeah any more fundamental beneath that is the these subatomic particles arising in passing away and that's all it is to keep it in mind. Do you do then do find a you are able to give him my well now, not not my daily life, but that is what the meditation practices that's. What capacity is it's actually not thinking about it an intellectual level, but actually feeling it feeling as much as is much too

as you can of your physical sensations. You, you mean stories to me sitting here, listening to leave, derived enormous amount of benefit from the right but you said you were using it in service of creativity and in your art is rock music generally thought of as a young person's game surf acts d and you were arguably the progenitor emo music. You know your bureau music, especially Pinkerton. Your second album, sometimes people pointed out, is like the first true emo album It was all about unhappiness sexual attraction. Well you're sizes. Tired of sex

and sexual traction or lack thereof, all sorts of twitchy, itchy stuff that comes along with being in early twenties? And now you and your mid forties humidity two hours a day you on retreat from weeks? That's it would seem to be deserted. The enemy of rock music Sonya talk me out. Tell me about how those two fit together? Well, that's exactly why I didn't want to try meditation in the first place it what why it took me so long. It seemed like the last thing that could possibly help We make better rock music. But I was going to give it a try and what can I say it helped in I am not exactly sure why I mean it definitely improve your concentration and creativity. Even in rock music is about concentration it's about. Through whatever internal struggles are our self doubt in

focusing in on what it is you trying to say, even if it's about something that appears to be a moral or whatever you know it's, you gotta focus in on it and describe it and that's what Pinkerton was about so in undefined the words for that and so patients help me do that. But if, if Pinkerton was legitimately, images comes through, our listen, I did read, listen to it recently is comes through in every note of it. How did you know you're a bad place around that recorded, so you can hear it but you're in the least to my eyes into being a great place right now, you're you're, mid forties, beautiful wife, wonderful, kids, meditation practice assumes improve your relationships and every level of your life. So how can you write, tortured rock music in your current state.

Well, maybe this is one of the things I first picked up from something book I read by take drugs. Are you thank you so is in that book. I think he was saying something like yeah, you can drugs are you can get your in all these. Crazy dramatics situations. So you know is emu. Situation, so you have Something to write about these are just or are so that you feel high, but these are just pics, it is and then they pass and then you feel Bligh again or you can meditate in sharp in your mind, so that you.

Get more out of subtler disturbances, and so I am not enlightened or free from, Does the same kind of emotions I had as one thousand mid twenties, writing Pinkerton. I still am still the same. Person, you know maybe it's not as intense or maybe it. I know how to deal with it, but now I can look at them and I don't I don't necessarily need to stoke them as fires so tending to write about I can do is observed them as they are and write about them in maybe you know come through the speakers. It sounds like a Maybe it sounds more like there's more tunnel in my life than you think. There is when you're sitting here across from me, but no it still.

First. All me, you gotta, hear the new right. You haven't heard the knee record. A resounding yes emphasised her up on Itunes, as as we speak, and a great king, the world yeah, There's still, I mean there's plenty of emotional disturbances for me to write about. I love what you're saying, because it means I'm a guy. Read a book called ten percent happier, so I'm not in the market of peddling miracle cures. I don't think they're they exist in me. Niv light mint is real. I actually think it's it's probably much more complicated on some levels are much less assertive assertive candyland is people might imagine giving the connotations around the word I kind of think of it, like enlightenment, is like nothing's going to do it to nothing's going to do it for you until Does it for you, the good bad. The ugly is, I think, probably miser, of unenlightened minds, rough attempt to understand what it means

and so the emotional disturbances are going to go in the Buddha got into bed moods. He had Iraq you sure you didn't like that. He had when his friends died. He got upset sufficient for anyone can negotiating among these warring kings and stuff, like that, so you better malta- is life, so I really am serve as the kids say, picking up which were put down because you do have these organically existing you're, just not amplifying them in an uncontrolled way in your life, you do you're just using them to write music yeah, exactly So tell me, I read a few things I love to hear you talk about how you did research for your new album which the new home hub the White Album widen. You actually joined tender yeah and your wife is go that yeah, but it was only for research purposes here you hesitated well, oh I'm.

Our mouths. Some house feels a little smaller that I go to enter the world to have experiences in order to write songs, but why writing songs is it I it just feels like this is by my path. My path in in life is. Is too to live and have these experiences and then put them into songs. It feels home. So I dont want to sell the whole tinder experience short and say it's it's just for this small practical purpose, more. Like this big mission, I mine, I guess what I was getting out as you weren't doing it for hooking up. Oh no! I can't do that to you or me. People on tender and just hang out with him yeah why? the one, the one relationship it was proved most useful for, thank God for girls

I'm actually didn't even meter in real life is just text. Relationship and you're. Talking about the song thank out for girls. Yeah result will. How did that text relationship feel helpless on well there's there's actually lines from our correspondence that I used in in the lyrics in India. The whole the whole idea of and meeting up in real life would cause the allusion to shatter. I wish I could get nowhere, but meeting up in real life cause Abkhazia allusion to shatter, You know. There's no way would have written that without having gone to the explicit tinder experience, and did you actually made up in real life some people, and how did you yeah is like ham and Iraq. Ban on hang talk or We ask you to join tinder to meet dues. You are looking for inspiration for songwriting NEA

I think my description says I'm just here doing research and looking looking to make new fur and then and have experiences and not looking to hook up something like that and some people, I don't know how works is going to sound like yeah, protesting too much, but They too. In order to day, like that or yet that they swipe right in that so then we have a match at an you. Just judge with and how did it go when you actually remaining people? I r l? How did that go in what will raise your goal for those created? That's that's you, great on tour, because Albion, Indian Listen, I won't know a soul there, and so I can go on tinder in find somebody right around the hotel and then we can go out and don't show me around the town, and it makes for much richer experience than sitting in

who tell room and marching a movie producer. I should tell our pockets listeners that that we always is the air conditioning in your lovely home. You, internal, ok, he's gonna go for it. As I look over my actions, and I want to ask you the other thing you did. As I understand it was just headache, a click which will slowly power it down is out the other thing you did it. You went to the beach yeah well before before we even assembled the first song. We had the idea of the overriding theme that it would be a beach album, So in order to pick up images and visual details, I D spent tonnes time Santa Monica Venice speech.

Observing yeah, observing walking around by king hanging out with people. Can you gotten polyglot are being bothered yeah, you can yet I saw him followed out by the EU, I bet you, wouldn't it if I don't get my glasses on and his walk in. I bet you wouldn't even recognize me the download speed at this reading incongruous there for me, because I've been watching you and music videos for decades. You play in front stadiums screaming people, I'll know, exactly where you are, and yet you can hang out at the beach unmolested yeah. Occasionally I'll get recognized. But my glasses on a get recognized. More often, you feel like a rock star, I don't know. I mean I've been once for half my life's most my adult life so

I don't know any other reality. I feel, This is what it. This is all I know what it's like to be a human. When you you're in your early I'm putting it, but now the blue and Pinkerton knowledge that if you, when you looked at forty five year old sure mister making rap music did what do you think those guys did you think they should stop or you were you into it. Well. I was, I was probably very in classical music in I've always had natural respects for in attraction to older people. You know I wasn't crazy solely about our it's my own age and early twenty user or younger. I always looked up to the the pass masters That being said, there, like the others, something Canada

tasteful about lake older, looking people playing specifically rock music with those kind of instruments. You know those kind of clothes and stage moves distant sky distasteful, and yet here you are yeah. Well, I don't have to look at myself. How long you that you can keep doing this term sixty sixty? You have your very mapped out what're you gonna, do it sixty retire and just hang out, I'll do a lot of service at the meditation centres. That's awesome, You'll be put now we're around through your fifties yet and you're. Ok, like what, when anybody says just keep doing it

I care what people say, but not to the extent that it would stop me from putting out music with you. We mentioned before that, your last record it everything will be right in the end, yeah got really good reviews I know he is, and I disagree with this is- is rare for you was that meaningful do and will, if the next record doesn't get your reviews, will you be upset? I don't think the next record will get. As good reviews, but I think they'll still be good. Now you I mean I love good reviews and I hate bad reviews for sure, but there's nothing I can do about it now.

I think we have to do. You can have re. You cannot control of bovine respond to it, but you you're was the one record just think of it that I think completely gets overlooked. Maladroit fantastic record, never doesn't get talk about enough, but the requisite. When I I just collected a bunch of articles about you is radium. People keep talking about that period of time. When you, when you're you had a little bit of a fan revolt around, Green Album grown out, no, not renounce this pretty much. Every item. There's a fan revolt. I guess Hurley that that I am the hurly yeah and then the regular for a document that gratitude Ratatouille in Hurley. Yet people gets in that area and I'm not quite sure why but more than less messengers in that more interested in how you deal with that, and whether meditation is useful in those moments it is yet mean when Winter

fans get upset or the critics get upset? It's like. You just feel the second side in like physically, Pained and then you meditate for an hour in it all relax listen if you'll kill again, do you think it does? The pain come back? Oh yeah yeah I mean. It does it doesnt go away in one sitting for good for sure, but say over the years it bothers. Less and less. That is not nothing here. Not it's a miracle. Yes, I would agree with that, and we would, it seems to me, is a man out of you. Meditation is really like a train training in resilience because meditation you have to be super resilient because it's humiliating you just quote unquote fail over and over again

try to handle settlement for an incredible yeah you're. Just off you to your mind, is crazy. The anchors and if you want definitive despots, dispositive prove that you're insane try to men right, because you're just gonna go off and often in and even for me, I'm not as they have in the Mediterranean lungs you coming up on seven years and when I try to meditate its the circus here until you deal for me. Ok so there we go and the training and resign to you. You have to learn how to come back and that, scalable off the cushion and I'm hearing in what you're talking about with these were abused because you spent years working on a record. It's your baby and people say nasty things about it and you got to get over it. Somehow you got to deal with it and clearly you have, because you keep doing record one other thing I want to ask you about that. I read about is that in this has to do with these issues of the issue of Europe,

in your life, but you had a reunion with your father. You talk to me about that. Well some appearance, but up on those three or four and ah I didn't see him much grown up, probably once seven when I was eleven sixteen and then a few times that you can remember the exact age you were at the other times. You said was that I have a really good memory for the seventies and eighties. It's weird but also speaks in emotional pollutants. Potency of that partner on his part and no honestly what it is. Is it he's been times in my life would have gone back through my life and really made accurate records. When I was where what was happening filed thing, I told you, I'm disk before the pie, castor, I'm crazy, organised on my computer

so I just kind of know where all that stuff happened and then, after after my mid twenties, I just haven't kept track of that stuff. So I don't know anything about what happened last week, but I know what happened when I was Ok so, and then my twenties, I saw a few times when we were touring through Europe because he was originally stationed in Germany, and then he ended up just living thereafter. He got out of the army, so he joined the army yeah to what being in a sense hundreds joining army. Well, I think there is a phase. Between where he was living, the wildlife, and he was born again and in the army and became a minister of the Pentecostal Church, and so he's been doing that ever since In a few years,

Oh, he moved back to the states and is actually living in the valley hearing and allay. So I see him much more frequently now did you have some anger they are to get over? I think dead, yeah yeah? I remember when I was young, I just loved him. So much and looked up to him so much to study was. Coolest thing ever and it was. It was really really painful and he wasn't there. How did you get over it? I don't know just went away eventually wasn't going to help you or serve you in any way to be angry, to have a relationship with him and have and to allow him to have relationship with his grandchildren, the better for everybody. I would imagine-

I got some good lyrics out of it, which songs well famously saving, so is as a lot of fun. That's probably one of her biggest most love song. It definitely has that theme of like a child, that's been treated unjustly lashing out at a parent, and I think a lot of relate to that for sure we are almost out of at a time, but is there anything else you want to talk about like anything else about the record, you want to tell me about your chore. Things are interested in Well, first of all, I do want to say one thing that I think would be interested, maybe slightly slightly interesting to user the thing about committing to two hours a day. The other thing: that's it,

huge help in motivating myself to do that is going. He doesn't just ask you to sit two hours a day, its requirement, if you want to sit, the long courses every year, which I immediately knew I wanted to get to twenty days. Thirty, forty five. If you want to sit those you have to you have to be able to say you been sitting two hours a day. I think for two years so from my first course at that that really help commit cuz. I knew if I, MRS sitting, that I I can't sit my course nobody's doing any accounting on you, though nobody it's a question on application don't lie you get that's the other requirement, as you can't lie, is you have to keep the five precepts so from that first course, I have done my best to keep the five precepts, but the five precepts are

list specifically buddhist precepts. They were lying, they were given by the Buddha yeah, so so from my first course also somewhat famously, at least in wiser circles is you know, I couldn't have any kind of sexual activity outside of lifelong committed relationship. So for three years I was completely celebrate after that. First course. How that go. Stuff yeah that would have meant to. I don't want to get. I want to push you into uncomfortable territory, but I would imagine in your position that you don't lack for options in your job. So It wasn't you met and married your wife. They allowed to get back in again, that's right.

And you say famous in Whizzer Circle, so I would imagine people know and with your circles that you meditative you have, if you turn your fans onto it at all. I feel like it's. It's such a personal thing in it such a rare thing that that approach more, feel we'll get it like. This is something I wanted. I actually want to do and it's gonna be good for me and does not a huge point in encouraging people. Even for me, it's so hard again, I don't want anyone to be in the middle of their tender course. It is utterly miserable, thinkin, dammit rivers. He made me country. This is horrible,

but there's no way you can do what you ve done, or what anybody who's got a really into the practice can do without internal propulsion. You can't do here, you can't do it for somebody else, because it is, you said, is just too hard. It's too hard. It's called me. Somebody else is doing anything else. This has been really fun for me I don't know like yeah, if you're interested in in NAM. The centres I go to its its damage, org de each a m m a and that's where they battery in fact sign up foregoing Ryan Stanley or Sauces year can thing I can think very than men, men

maybe I don't know do you remember out on this is controversial, but do you remember that article and really where'd you get into doesn't five when you're on the cover yeah, so you should know the woman who wrote that Vanessa as a neighbour forget her hand. I would like to hear more about that not on your bubbles is not on the record. So did we not sorry were her, but what about because you read that article it seems like you are now, at all, like the person and article that did the guy I'm sitting with six eleven years later does not at all seem like the person. I would primed to meet. If I read an article, because miracles seems like you're, not a jerk, but but that you are very specific, cavern OECD, specific,

and maybe not your social skills may be slightly different them than others yet have a safe way to describe the way you think you came oftener yeah. Definitely so I guess my question is: was the article wrong or have things have things change in part because a match creation of meditation. Well, I think both I was impressed that she managed to for a fortress, in that way, I'm givin, given what I thought dinner his light, given what I thought I was like, I think At the same time. I think I have changed a lot and I learned a lot from that article actually and that's one of the things that his discouraged me from taking any kind of approach, proselytizing tone in an interview in a very careful not in don't even bring it up. I mean ivy simulation yeah, but the meditation thing wasn't what came through most powerful in the article? What was it the wax

world of Caesar? What what what came looking through the day, the relationships among the bang members, and that there is tension and indeed other guys, the bad warlike while they were referring to it, do because you would just started meditating in that seem like a pretty big departure from the from the guy was honourable, like maybe micromanaging a little bit yeah. Well, I mean that's right when I started pretty much that was to two years in my practice I think so You know there and I pray- I probably hadn't seen them in two thousand three just a little bit in two thousand, for I come back in two thousand and five do that interview and say look, I'm a new personal meditating now and you know their rightfully pretty sceptical, because what have you been like before? Well I I alluded to a little bit at the beginning of this interview, but I was I'd really

bottomed out and you can. You can probably find some interviews from two thousand to were its or two thousand one were. You know I had fired the mere our manager. I was managing the band myself I was in a number of lawsuits on behalf of the bandos just causing all kinds of problems and what was going on with you. Well I'm kind of drawing a blank. I think I'm not. I just have this instinct. Aversion to talking that badly about myself, which I think is healthy. So if I wanted to raise any warranty, the researches, you can go back, but you don't need to do that as I might go, yeah will I

I think at the heart of it is like this this withering of my arm. My life. Force in my creativity, and it caused me to really grip and try to control things in awe

you know, had the arsenic, arcs career with so much less secure at that point to a failed record which we had you know felt like. Maybe that's it so I got a cause. Meta do not behave super great. I get it because here's as things like the centre of your life, which is your ability to make beautiful music awesome music whenever our we want to describe it, and if you feel like it slipping away, you can act out in all sorts of greater weight. Special. You have something like grounding, you look, marriage, meditation being sure whatever, and this is a good way to end. I think the ending to the extent that there are endings is that seems very happy. Yet this was awesome.

Bistro for me to talk to you about both of these subjects. Your music, but you've been a big part of my life for a long time, and also meditation, which is a huge part of my life, is well. So thank you, preciate it it's a thrill for me to. I never get to talk about this stuff. So thanks hey. This is Dan one thing before you go actually two things. First, if you like my show, please make sure to subscribe to the ten percent happier podcast so you'll know when we post the next one. The second thing is, if you really into it, you can check out my app, which is called ten percent happier meditation for fidgety skeptics, thanks again for listening, talk to you next time,. There's not a person in Amerika who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona.

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Every day this is my last day of the cylinder stretch to drive off about photos from one of our Visa or America's essential workers, the people who are keeping moving. I turn into a home school mom and now in a new programmes. From eighty see news you gonna hear from damage. I she went back to my office and so unkind because he is not here, and I can assure you that our community has found faintly worrying. This is essentially inside the from the emergency room. The police cruiser to the Czech outline Yuki one. This pandemic sounds like the people putting themselves no one's way, there's always a risk. Brain is home to re. Kids are my husband or maybe errands, listen to the essentials inside the curve on Apple podcast, river, pod, costume.