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#200: Sharon Salzberg, A Meditation Master Stares Down Death

World-renowned meditation teacher Sharon Salzberg recently faced a very serious health scare and a true test of her decades of practice. In this very candid conversation Sharon tells us what happened to her, how her mindfulness training took over to help her get through the crisis and the lessons she learned coming perilously close to death. Plug Zone Website: https://www.sharonsalzberg.com/ Social Media: @sharonsalzberg Ten Percent Happier Resources Loving-kindness + Walking meditation: https://10percenthappier.app.link/cnjzzwHvhX ***VOICEMAILS*** Have a question for Dan? Leave us a voicemail: 646-883-8326
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
For maybe see. Is the ten percent happier vodka in her? where the milestone this week, people hundred, I can't believe we're at two hundred episodes at this whole thing started on a lark I was an elevator right here at ABC News headquarters in New York City couple years ago, and what are my friends, longtime colleague Lauren? she got on the elevator, and I said to her: do we do package tyranny. Bc news she works, ended in Digital, which I thought maybe had something to do with the pot guess: division, which, of course it doesn't. The radio folks do the Pike S anyway. The interest we at that point we really didn't, have upon cast but lie. Or an is such a high energy person that she. Couple days later she organised a meeting with some folks from the digital
and the radio world and there are my office and everyone is a gala Douglas try to Pakistan. So Couple weeks later we had a pike. I interviewed the doll you. I had a pre scheduled interview with the Dalai Lama. We dump that into the Pike S feet and then I said something up with them: rivers, Cuomo from weeds who is a friend of a friend and and boom. We launched the progress with those two in every week since then we ve been somehow wrangling guests into the studio to sit talk to me about meditation and has been amazing. I've learned an extraordinary amount and I continue to learn from all of you as Some of you may know we have this amazing group of PI cast insiders, hundreds of people who give us feedback every week and you know continually trying to up my game and yet it has been an incredible run and to mark the occasion we have brought back
the legendary meditation teacher sharp chair in Salzburg, who has been on the show more than any other person for good reason, because she's, an extraordinary human being. Who's got an extraordinary life story and has been a teacher whose touch the lives of tens of thousands of people. She had written a series of best selling books and is one of the founding teachers on them. Have your app and she happens to be on the the other side thankfully, of a really serious health crisis, I mention this on the show a few months ago that went when she was in the throes of this and she was in a hospital in California and there is a big outpouring of support and love, her, but I wanted to bring IRAN. I saw I sent an email and when she arrived back and in New York after after she got out of the house on said? Would you be willing to come on the show and talk about it, because I I I thought of a useful for people, we're all gonna get sick, it we're all gonna die and I thought to be useful.
People to hear what it's like to be in a situation where death is a very real possibility and spent decades of your life training your mind and meditation. So Sharon really in the end, this episode walks us Low by blow, through this ordeal, Anne and we fascinating window into what what it was like in in her head, he was in during this one quick little plug here before we get into the episode, and that is that She has she's one of the most popular teachers on the ten percent happier app, and there is great meditation. I want to highlight here. It's one she guides on look use, doing loving, kindness, meditation while walking, and she described it as a kind of silent secret superpower that can be applied as you walk through
world so check. If you go to the on the go category on the app and click on and click on her meditations, you can find it. There is also put a direct link in the show nuts art. Back to share in Salzburg. I want to thank her for all she's done from for me, as a teacher and for the bravery that this interview really entailed as you're about to. Oh and one more thing before we go here, we're gonna do voicemail this week, but Sharon's gonna do them and we were these separately, so the audio will of different, but Sharon's gonna take your voice now at the end of the show so stay here. For that here we go parents Albert nice to see you is very nice to see you, a people really worried about you when the news broke, but I can tell them because they can't see you there. You look great. Thank you. And I've seen you a couple times over the last few weeks and months, and Europe about and doing a thing but I wanted to have you any you're
you already were the most frequent guest on the show. I wanted to have you in TAT, because I really am interested in how does a meditation somebody's been meditating for this long with so much intensity handle health crisis of the likes of which huge endured. So can we start at the beginning? What happened here Evans, her hand me well There were some amazing stroke of luck all along the way, and I had great good fortune is well. I was staying with some friends. And I was singing their guest house, which was down the hill from their house, which would have meant. I would have been alone if all that followed have down there, but I happen to be in their actual house and in California,
and I was I was flying back the next day. I thought too, to New York and you're out their teaching Metallurgia had taught in Latin in San Francisco and then I was just visiting my friends and in their house. I sort of I went into some altered state of consciousness. I was shivering, knows picking and it was an unpleasant and now I had is fascinating. I just that, while so interesting and my tripping so weird and then I must have passed out you staring up at the time, but now I was, I was on their courage and lying on the couch and I got to go to the bathroom and that's when I collapsed and I kind of came to on their catch again, and there was a stranger, looking down at me whose an ambulance driver- and he said I'm here to take you to the hospital- and I was so confused like why? Don't you go to the hospital and having to find I mean, I just explained these other realms of consciousness and had been active lakes.
Glory other round yeah yeah I mean I was just ass there you know in, effectively. I was just shivering and shaking that's. All anybody could see those like ours is how cool subjectively to the other people on the room. Will you I mean I should say physically the this. Symptoms was are those shivering and shaking, but I was I was, suffering, you didn't feel ill. Did you oh you're shivering and shake yeah yeah, I know shivering and shaking, but then I thought I was having some experience Joe just to put that in perspective, people who have meditated a lot and some people have meditated that much. Have quite interesting experience in particular. That is the this practice known as Jana practice, where you get very focused and you discuss I'm pretty far out. Although we ve talked about on the show before you actually
ray what a walk into these kind of interconnected rooms in my area, yeah, I've, I've stealing that phrase Ya'Ll GI from somebody else where it's pretty are out and there's a lot of a lot of people have done this. This practice is not something you supernatural did you. If that's what was going on something along those lines, the image that the term John it didn't come to my mind, but I have these thoughts like wows kindly eating my dna or something this is like this is really far out on weren't free. Doubt by the fact that, although yours sitting on a couch one minute in the next minute, you're you know every engaging and also like looking at your own dna, now that that for didn't, I'm not a there were in, I was my friend was rubbing my leg. You now felt like a massage. I you know I thought of this is just somebody
It's something you know, something's happening a release of some sort of energy or yet the ok again. Just put that perspective because The untrained here, that's gonna son out there, but in meditation. You know people swear or move in voluntarily all time and actually having an entry. He released like that. He is not uncommon. Now it's an uncommon and sir, I didn't think you know this is toxic ear. I'm our get me the house and so, in fact, when the sky looked down at me and said, I M here to take you to the hospital I'm an ambulance driver. He said is that ok- and I looked at my friends like so confused like Why do I have to go to the hospital, and then I realized, I couldn't remember their names and if at all have to go to the hospital I have zero zero recollection of the ambulance. Ride.
It happened was that I always getting CEPT C mere. Just then was like overcoming me back cheerier that had been in my body actually in my leg, which nobody knew about, including Asia persons, my bloodstream, and so it was just like taking over. So sad to see me asserts, set China, that it takes its being septic tanks, sepsis and I'm not were pulling the law. I know once as are now you're in septic shock owes pitch Aki cassettes He was unconscious but, as you have said conversation we heard earlier in- I was into baited a minute. I hear a lot of stories about people sepsis that are far worse, but still I was, I was gone to himself. I kind of to somewhat later in the evening in the emergency,
I'm still and the same ambulance driver was their dirty gun out picked up some one else: birth amenity, poked, his head in me said boy, you look alike, better, look awful! We brought you in. And then there was a lot of effort and they put me on ivy antibiotics with a lot of effort to find the original source of the infection. So they can target the antibiotics which took a while so. They gave me a bunch of chest x rays cause I thought it must have pneumonia which it did not have, and they admitted me too. I see you and it was the next day when an infectious disease doktor came in that cheap shots. Like this really small place on my leg and she said that it was right. Well, how did it happen. Nobody knows they asked me. A lot of questions is a lot of people said pedicure, petty here's, a famous witches.
Never again, a hum visited my bank, your leg on an airplane. You scratch something happened. I was just unaware of awe. And it just Mozart was at once they got the right antibiotics and then the that's true still leaving my bloodstream kind of went home to my leg, which swelled like a health entire system was really discussing. My poor leg was interesting. Watching had come home in that way, One thing: I'm hearing your voices, I'm hearing you tell the story it. I don't know if it's just because there's enough distance now, but hearing a lot of fear, panic I don't I don't you simply come about it, Well, when you come in a moment, come in a moment. Oh those comes
Ok, you know, oh, I wouldn't say was panic, but ours an answer. Imports here implied question I feel like I was supported by my practice throughout not an conscious or strange way better. He and I better come down a bit, stop breathing or something, but it was there. My my first nurse- and I see you was actually also acupuncture citizen sacrifice in us right away. We know there is, can help me server. The nurse was an act punctures in Santa Cruz in his said, so he can do. I wasn t he said one point. Shut? Your lips are really chapped and we going to get your chapstick and I said to my friend: isn't it sweet is going to give me a chapstick and then I said well
for not giving it to me, probably because we sixty five dollars enough, and I look back at that. My think. How could my mind have done? You know like been detached, to be funny, I'm their home, and I see you here. I am, There was something in the next day when infectious disease doktor came in. She said to me boy, I don't know what I was going to find in here cause your numbers are really bad. Like your white blood cell kind, still alive, but you see much better than your numbers and I really honestly feel that that was my practice in other tat was sustaining me. And giving me a way of looking at my experience. That was, that was strong method to say, was ever scare them and I were scared, scared, red, different things at different times innocuous. They were scary things that different times different ones. You know,
There were moments when peace, I would say: well you know this kind of activity are really likes to go into the hearts. We have to give you an echo courtier, grandma sort, hadn't gone, it's my heart. Had another echo party grim later hadn't gotten to my heart he would say, with kind of bacteria, really relax. You go into the bones. We ve gotta, give your cat scan. Can we casket hadn't gone my bones my right, but still can't just came steadily down. The really initial scary thing I remember is that also foggy. My head was just cloudy and I thought is this is it you know like? Maybe I'm not gonna write another book or speaker. Being a room, he kind of mellow paid little, but hopefully, but you know
The current I certainly have mental acuity is forgetting people's names. I was like just kind of awe. Still really mind DNA a little, but I guess you're somewhere well, rules that were scared, weather The reading your dna to me seems like Europe I state of meditation, which would in which would, it seems to me, entail mental acuity whereas the foggiest seems to be kind of the opposite of meditation. Well, I think the finest was because I had to function not highly function, but I had a response. Pupils question sir. I had to know had asked for something or and function in a system. You now get out of my ceos in a room, and you know so it was a little bit like. I have to learn this culture. I have to know how to make things work here in Andalusia
You know I wasn't non functional, but I was not as bride has heightened pirate wished by anyone must be that I would imagine, would be scary, given that you'd spent decades cultivating awareness, weak wakefulness. No, that was scary. That was like, that was really a low point in an The situation is kind of like because my mind dead. My thoughts did what we do, which one really has to be careful of which was eight directed and into the future. This is gonna be the way it is. Maybe you know this is helping to function for the rest of my life. That life is gone, you know, and so. I didn't quite have energy, I'm right did to some extent in other, thank goodness, but
It was only a little later. I couldn't sleep in the hospital bed there soon comfortable using another thing that happened to diagnose asleep at new or no sooner, because, Stop breathing and his team of people heart monitor on people would come running in it. What we have to go out. And said between the machine and the other half her conceiving hostile bid so sleeping in his old rickety arm chair in the in the room and the I keep my leg, elevated, which meant both legs, elevated with that their particular recline herself and palm packet falling down some so old and rickety so I won t I thought. Oh, you know what is it still off in the corner of the room and if we take the stool only proper up that bottom part second fall down anymore and then I thought my brain is back now it's back and that was that was actually attorney
How long were you in the hospital as if a tennis and did it from I simply get better from the moment you entered or give were there times when you known New problems emerged and you thought oh, no, no, no, we're in a worse place now is a lot of up and tankers at some point, so you're trying to survive. The hospital is trans via the system. You know like I guess, when I got to the emergency room, they put me full of fluids, cassettes what they do to try to keep your blood pressure from crime. In your organs, from failing in the matter can be directs, get rid of the fluid and then at one point, diuretics Amy, gout,. So there I am out very painful, very painful condition Well, I guess your ass. It builds up near like oh joint or other joints- and it was it, was so
excuse me in that was my other foot, the supposedly healthy for the healthy for rape so I had one leg that was swollen. You know infected ever had and pain, terrible pain in the earth, and I kept saying my other foot really hurts. This is like so reared and the doktor came and against the think. You have got to the test and I didn't get your asses to high. So then I couldn't walk I couldn't bear weight, you know it's like really miserable, because I had previously gotten up with Walker using Walker and and another thing. I really feel my user practice given me is such a strong sense of a path, so they have got a path. I've gotta get up twice a day: I've gotta I've gotta, try
walk I've gotta do the seller is really hard won. My great lessons actually, which I'll tell you read. It came from the first time I got up oh said I can walk. Second gets the bathroom ilusha sake. You know such a regression and this assistance, if maybe this is endless, is just a loop again is like future thinking in like now. I'm now spiral known spiralling, and that was like a big feeling, the set back and then Carbon dioxide was too high in honouring Sunday permit another measure in. Ah there was the game you pick line in us other, I wonder, is putting my veins and so then there's always like the fear infection or just like. Yeah, there's just a certain point right along here and
so it sounds like you had many of the reactions that US mortals would have, which is you know, you know feeling demoralized or fear or the wordpress on show the mental proliferation projection into the future, mostly in a sort of fence. Way you had. All of that. We can't run a test. See the version or share that it been meditating for forty fifty years to see what that person, how that person would have reacted, but do you think is your. That you had all those normal reactions that we would all have fear anger whatever, but that they didn't say around as long as they otherwise might have so yeah I mean I I you know.
In all those ways I mean, I knows, is kind of describing and be certainly if I didn't get tripped up in future projection shaped it from time to time, but I wouldn't say all the time then it was, it was a whilst of passing through me. Just like washing through me and certainly fear, came and anger in, and there were things to be scared of you know and yet You know it wasn't It wasn't a detour path and I really wanted to unify. If I saw myself beginning to project while you know what's can we like went back home? You know like. I would say to myself things like why you rehearsing Matt.
You know why you rehearsing catastrophe. Why you? Why you rehearsing us? a huge deviation from your life, and so that clearly is a gift of my practice. You knows being able to catch the her puncher proliferation And say maybe not, and also not have some horrific reaction against myself like why you thinking that you practicing God knows how many years- and it wasn't like that at all, and it was also so interesting being in Santa Cruz, like one a nurse came in answer. Doing whenever she took a look at me, and she said I teach loving kindness to kindergarten kids either. Look. This is really interesting. This is really
I also real honestly. I got it a glimpse of what happened in these last forty fifty years in his country, respiratory therapist came in. I think they put meditation expert on my charge. You know so respiratory therapist came, and he said I ve been meditating for about a year Have you been to incite Santa Cruz until now? I have actually been there your great Chris in case you listen to this and then he seventeen ovine Veni Ferrara, instead of any really well well, well known meditation teacher, you anything he's my teacher, you know, and so it was just a task to feel that you know that the kind of movement in into society and these people work so hard and had so much respect for women.
To feel that they were supported in and went. There has not easy work in terms of your interior situation. I'm just curious had what about the pain? I am not particularly good at pain, but one one of the things in meditation is to try to have it try to hack our kind of garbage our response to pain, which is just blind aversion when you, I the screaming pain in your foot as a result of gout what You do in your mind there too. There is a lot of experience. I inner city and looking at came. I am if I wasn't distracted enough. There were a lot of people to talk to me or earth things going on a faggot. Just focus, then, is just those are a you know like they kept saying you know: do you want something for the paint went nuts?
does the pay me around one to ten and anti wants me for a pain in the most overtook was like Thailand or something I go straight for the morphine out God and never actually had morphine, but I feel it but I am. Again you know it's just what it was as a thought of disability. More than the physical pain was scary. You I'm that can work and you thought maybe I'll never work. I thought I could it be that I will never one there's no reason with gout that you would never walk again, then my leg was being being dealt with, but I couldn't walkin in theirs. I thought you know like what. If what? If what if this is the way it's gonna be so that would
what would trip me up? Probably more than anything you have, because I've had a life and the life style, which was too much travel too much other things. You know not how to change clearly, but how much had to change, and it was just like facing us, bigger known those those pretty scary. What about death because there you know when you mentioned before there were times when they settle. This could go to your heart, could go to your bones and the obvious puncher loop. There is, I'm gonna die, did that happen and how scary was that for you, especially given that contemplating death theoretically in Buddhism is a huge part of what's on the menu it I've go on about having a different life.
Having a limited life more than I thought about dying, and maybe it was a way to avoid thinking about dying in. Like comes figure. I don't. I've done a lot of contemplation onto I would say that I had been, maybe very particularly afraid of dying earlier in my life and my mother died when I was nine and I was brought up by my father's parents and their eastern European and some both culturally and and for whatever reason they never really talked about her again. They said it'll be too painful for me or something like that and stuff oh prospect of death was also close. Then does the shameful in us is a big secret? This is a terrible thing. No one's gonna help you
life demand and you should stop this. What is this than an was years? A practice that helped ease? I think some of that particular burden in a second much good condition, burden and then just plain or fear like I have visited his friend and hospice, not to and fro in California,. And she said to me, when I get afraid of dying, I just say to myself what's happening and I said to her: I know it's system we ve system, but I do believe in rebirth and I realized when I get afraid of dying or afraid of doing it wrong So I say to myself: you ve done this before you know how to do this.
And so I realise that there in the hospital that I didn't think I was gonna die me. Nobody was sooner, but that didn't have to have like the right experience in our or make it be a certain way I just had to be with what is and I would laugh or that memory like I've done this before. Like so many times, a shared laughter was saying. I mean I I that was part of what you know when I would go there. I got so don't rehearse that you know you're kind of. You're, pretty low energy and to creating a scenario that doesn't seem that likely he know you're here you bring ten care of antibiotics Nothing's fit no organs failed. So far
did somebody sent me a website link to website saying that someone I knew you'd had sepsis found a very helpful. So, of course I also got a lot of you know. Emails and stuff, while I had sepsis so you know I almost died. You ain't got to be really careful the hardest parts of recovery. You could still die, but somebody sent me this link and it was some site that I'm sure The people did find very helpful. To the first thing I had its aside was because I didn't know which Mr Clegg My an elderly person whose head sepsis- and I thought my I am actually those shock to outdo I'm sixty six. I guess that qualified yeah, What's the cut off for elderly and are now but that every time a nurse is in the hospital would change shift and they would do report in front of you, which is interesting.
Decisions sixty six year old woman, I think who's that it's me. I am also sorry click, yes and then the first thing the site said was something like many people who had sepsis report that they ve lost one or two significant capacities as a result, and I closed it up and I never looked at it again and I will just keep telling myself don't go there. You know this is not a question of being unrealistic. This is just like: don't go there. You know that's creating a world that you don't have to believe in utterly and in front of her Odin led to find new, and so now and I always feel without subsidies
A lot of them are not limit our having lost capacities. Alongside don't do that. You know it is easy to do that in the future in a hospital. Closure eating their food in Europe defined by a lot of other people, Burgess complaint onto that stuff. When I wouldn't do that it was miserable. You know I was those are. The places will feature projection. Oh what? If I inherited this again worth, I can teach, or if I can't but I had. I must really it's. Just those years of practice came through for me as they do just wonderful news. Just like you, don't have to do that. I don't know what I'm but says. Gonna resonate anyway, but I have often had the thought
realisation on retreat that, if I'm suffering I'm not being mindful of something, is that flee. What happened with you? In other words, you you were suffering when you got lost in these projections, but. Actually when you had time to just focus on the pain and feel it not judge mentally. There wasn't a lot of suffering it sounds like well, I think you are here- you're gonna- have to make some people make a distinction between pain and suffering. His. I also very much in school believe that I believe pain happen sooner. Something just hurt, that's one, my fair ferris slogans, something's just her and it's very unfair. To say to ourselves. Well, I had a better attitude. This wouldn't hurt her
I didn't resist it. You know, it's all my fault. In the way my bad sinking is making his head. I think something's just hurt you know, and but it's like that extra suffering. We don't need and think over and over again I saw oh it's easy to fall into that you don't want to that end. It was and I was also you know so lucky like it did not go into my harder did not once my bones. Are you now when I had a problem, it could be addressed and it was just a matter of time. You know, so I can't swear that things have gone west direction. I would have in so favorable, but I really just think it's like a whole has hours. Now,
even those hours. You think why am I sitting here? You know nothing's happening around just dealing with his new painter accounts really counts Otto, because I found strengths re fell, can get. We are talking about all those hours of meditation, as I was saying, they really count. Is there were times? Of course they have consciously bring in perspectives or strength that I could draw you know like this will change to or but there are a lot of times when it just a rose within me, because I had practised it again and again and again, in other words, you're feeling the pain and the there's the there's the rub dad of the pain and then there's the extra layer we add of this is going to happen this
can be with me forever. I will never get out of this, but after all those years of meditation practice you are able to force spontaneously realise everything changes over time. This is gonna change to, but that's it give yourself well We do need an hour. I mean, of course, is not just man. And. It reminds me of you know I was interviewed fur. Adding is good housekeeping, which is really ludicrous. You see my house any of them and whatever had to say, didn't ultimately make it into the article anyway. But question. Was somebody like how do you think heavy is my fellows in a time of complete crisis. And what I said was I wouldn't wait, don't wait and of course some. Those way may reach for something in the midst of bottoms fallen out here in the house, for all, that's all
Harry and leave a man might prove to be a resource or something helpful, but you know the truth was like you, don't have to wait and- and just like that time we put in which dusk often seem inconsequential and poor, are useless, say it does matter. I really saw that so clearly is his. There was Something was holding me up in a way said. The doktor could walk in and say boy. You seem a lot better than your numbers every year But first of all I get have two things to say that one is. I was going to ask you what are the lessons in your story for the rest of us and I am sure there are many, but that seems like a big one that because I know a lot of I hear from people all the time who feel compel them trigger indisposition due to come up here
confessed to me. There meditation secrets. I got to be honest with you. I only do it when things are going poorly in the woods, and things are bad with things are good. I just I or whatever- and I are say what you know doing it. When things are good, is will give you the strength to have those bad has been less bad, so that's seems to really power we'll take away. The other thing that you came my mind as you were saying. That was a thing that Your long time colleague, Joseph Goldstein often says about meditation, which is that you can view it as practicing for death for the dying process can you hear me awake with any pain right now and if you're a liar thing that might come to mind as you're dealing with any pain is, if I can with this you know, can I be with whatever coming at the end of my life, any response either those things yet everyone
a friend I have visited in hospice. She tied Joseph sets me when the queue you know The diamonds whom we not often think about so busy for one thing I am so busy that to take a moment, relies oh yeah and yet in a jiffy I also told you would tell you that my first and I got him walk, which I one minute, but I you feel. Ah something shifted. You now from. From that experience as well. Even I contemplate death and I said to the others and exercise It is really like. I find things, don't stick in quite the same way and I wanted like I'm writing a book in right now. I believe you will be to honour in I I just picked my head
from a computer now and then but- and I hope it serves, people are helped us well, but it's like really. The thought of doing what people do like checking the numbers on Amazon. I care do that at last year you didn't just get out of asthma, so that is that it has that lasted because I often find that I get to the end of a meditation retreat. I had one honesty and tat ten months ago and end of it was a loving kindness, meditation retreat with our mutual friend spring wash em, and at the and I felt like you know, I understand everything about how I need to live my life from now on and I'm gonna everything's in perspective, and then you know my Amazon rank were a week later, probably less than that. But This sounds more powerful, well, I've Christmas,
it hasn't come hides the legacy of that I am by other fields. I feel different. You know. I feel that there has been something words just like the good I'm a large us we'll portal, what happened was that for some negative to walk in the hospital, this with a Walker and which is very hard. You no physical, therapist and she said three one point: it's not a race, you know said you go further features up now and then and rest that's, because I knew mantra salary sooner, because. No was was a big thing like this. Do it, let's get done so much to deal is more an let's. Do it
weekly him then, I said to myself is not always a cool competing against yourself in a like. Just just relax. Do it so unrest so in I moved. My friends who were saintly, you offered me their house when I was getting ready to leave the hospital or before the doktor said to me, it's illegal to proscribe anything ivy overstate lines. Stay in California and nobody knew how long I, beyond ivy antibiotics for an could been months. Church speech,
weeks, they made him meteoric recovery and, and she said you can go into skilled nursing home, which should be really difficult experience or work, something else. How and my friends like offered me, I'm the guest house, another friend offered from health care AIDS, and so I created this world in their guest house and it was. It was made because she Bob Sermon, wrote me eminent Buddhist scholar at Columbia, and he said you no one ever the dialogue has challenged like this. He goes on to retreat wanting to go into a tree, and so basically I didn't go into. Full retreat as we know it, but I had two months adding the old place. Everyone was the doctors either medical, supplies tour. I practice tonight,
I hung out with my home Healthcare AIDS, who became my good friends, and I asked people not come see me right away and talk on the phone and it was it was really restored of period was really Gordonton. My theme is not erased. You know just see what you can do to it at a different pace lacks, you know, have fun keep breathing, while you can and so I'll be interesting to see how often I check Amazon when the book comes right now it feels like. Whenever stay too and more of our conversation, is on the way after this better help offers licensed. Rational councillors specialised in a week. Array of issues like depression, anxiety and grief, conduct with their profession
counselor and a safe private online environment, it's a truly affordable option and listeners can get ten percent off your first month by going to better help dot com, slash happier fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with the counselor you'll love. Thirty five year old version of you was listening to this had some way to listen to this interview back when you know she was starting to write books and do you know you had already How did this eminent meditation retreat centre and go go go which you care on for a long time. Would you have been able to hear it's, not a race, Anne and can the rest of us somehow operational eyes. This was the more do. We need to have gone through the particular hell that you went through what they say.
Our people, learn from their own mistakes. Wise people learn from other people's mistakes. Are that's a good saying? Yes, I dont think I saw that a movie the other day anyway. How is that possible that we that week we could in court rate. Could I find the idea of its not a race very attractive, because I am doing what you described before of let's do more. Let's do it quickly, blah blah blah Can I do what you're describing without somehow losing my age or whatever? I think so. I mean that's enough. The things I learned by the time- I was thirty five, you know through my teachers and through people That was also enormous. You know, I've had a very counter cultural life and
And definitely, I think, that's why we reflect on death row. That's why we we listen to others having this variants we pay attention. I also say that you now overwhelmed by the degree of love and care that came toward me. It never been my intention to and a widespread announcement of what I was going through and somehow it happened and it we did. I get a big show off. There was something on your website and I, from everybody I now he so I know tat there was a lot of love is enormous and an sir touching, and that really supported me too, I mean really, I felt so gratified I felt like Oh you know his this kid is respiratory therapist and he's he's just learning how to
In all, the people had a fishery breathing exercise. RO so embarrassed. I can't believe, have teacher breathe a hum you know where the nurses teaching, loving kindness to children. I thought you I didn't set out to have a legacy. Wasn't I kind of person None of us were in our. I was twenty three where we started. I am ass an site meditations. Yes, insight, meditation, southerners, none This could have imagined what would happen in this country around the world in terms of mindfulness or the price. Doesn't it wasn't like a vision we held like a we're going to have a worldwide to no impact was nothing goes like if we can make it to the year with you so and and and yet it's what transpired. So I felt a degree of certainly gratitude. You knows, as all that love came pouring in and
in a lot of people sent me flowers, and there were so many that I just gave me, and I would like to look at them for a little bit, but I'd son early wearily given away, and somebody came in. I think It was not proportional therapist when his mother was in the hospital and she sits. May you the flower, lady nurse at my mom, got four roses so great made her so happy I was so moved by by that and I thought well that's a life. Where lived you now I mean there's nothing else I can accomplish so they will ever match that and so does need to accomplish. Something is also well. I can still works so say more about so given that the love swore that you received was a symbol
all of the fact that you have done great. You had made great contributions. Yeah and locator dropped MIKE near. Yeah I mean it is just like sheer joining gratitude and. Is overwhelming really. So, even though I had not been my intention that hope here my website or other be the only people, I really was sent informing will. I had to cancel a whole bunch of things. That's why I was on the website. Yeah yeah, so, but I just wanna was organizers. This particular Thus a you know like naive, like. They tell me that I think the first night, I see my friends were hanging around and I was saying things like well, I can't I won't get
Jordan in in two and a half weeks, but maybe I can get to Paris by the end of the month. You haven't you haven't gatesman and in the country of Jordan, the air here. Will you manage and healthcare workers, people working the syrian refugee camps them I could make it the fact that I thought I was in Paris in three weeks of my friends or think right really delusional job. What was was your schedule. I mean I've known for a while. But- and I know you have a busy schedule- lanyard somehow on twitter and email- it all the time. Barely seemingly all the time I haven't used you. U Edu, pump out a book every five minutes, so I know the scheduled been crazy, but it's it's really create. It was real. It was really crazy and Joseph chip send me out on a hey, do it and I do of course I couldn't do it, but I was doing it and I couldn't sustain it you're also ten years younger than I am.
That's it. I am I a nine years younger than even then using unity is never here. Very protective of his inner. Yes, here that he is, which is very smart, he's always been a model like that for me. But and even the how you like I get. I can't travel away once did I'm teaching. I'm writing in our, like, certainly feel like an actor. You know. That's life is complicated. No everything and some services recount Medicare complicated I guess is to pay, for that is a lot to do just just by, but when I get an invitation, my new mantra bet. That is don't answer right away. You know cuz you're going to want to say yes and you can just can't say yes to everything, just like revenge? You now answered a little later thrilling for
It was driving you're high productivity, your peripatetic nature, what what was what made Sammy run their. What was going on I think so many different levels is a level machaerus grateful someone wanted making analogous wow. You know they want me to come, it's amazing, but that seems like I hear low self esteem in there. Sit here that I mean that that son and unreasonable assessment, I would probably have said not being in touch with. Kind of that feeling of how much I had done. It wasn't that I wouldn't have been grateful, but I just didn't set and receive like you know you ve done a lot like this is In a ticket the sort of re sing about like tickets,
only some of it is that I get. Called in a lot of different directions. You know there's. A whole initiative which I am now part of. It seems to bring two of meditation things I fat to people whose lives have been affected by gun violence. You know so I started out my gun apartment community, you, my lord, I went further and now this in very tree. At the study centre and bury were literally people from parkland by people from Pittsburgh and people formula, a small, obviously retreat with enormous, people on faculty or when I was gonna, go to Jordan. The international humanitarian aid workers are things that that move me.
The and then there are other things that livelihood her. Oh really, frankly, and then there, in others responsibility to the insight meditation society in others? is that an urge us just was not good. It really curtailing All of that, I think, is an exciting I could be involved in research project owes an amazing I can. I can do that as well. Wow, you knows only three flights to get her. You know and if I stay away than I can go from there there, it was just all I really resonate with that in particular in this is probably projection on my part, the low self esteem of it. I wrote a book and all of a sudden, I nobody ever asked me to go, speak anywhere and then, like now reads, asked me to go, give talks and though they were me
mine, although do at an earlier. Somebody else wants me to write a book with them or maybe start an airport, You know maybe do a collaborative process with X y uneasy, and so you say yes because it gets exciting and you can't believe and also there's the remuneration like young people of meditation teachers. Don't make a lot of money. What you do relies on? What's called Donna, which is generosity or in other words people pay what they can and Sundays amuse they pay nothing, you do it anyway. In your case, I think I speak. I know I am speaking for you here, but I think I speaking for regretfully there's a deep, belief in what you are doing in the need that other human beings have for this. I think I have a less of that. Ideal is a mob embarrassed to admit, but I have some but not as much. I am guessing here, but I can see from my personal experience, how you would get into this situation now, because I've done it, and it's got me into a lot of them.
Yeah, no definite value of their family and other things, but yes in our, I don't receive any money for work. I do with the department. And having a permanent, your exhibit? You know those things also needs to be balanced out, and I had been a book contract oddly enough have three books coming out next year, because it's the twenty fifth enter three of loving kindness. He was your sir seminal work. One of those my first book gather that the work that really really help put compassion, meditation practices on the map now so that I just revenue afterward for that The publisher, real happiness, is reassuring. It next year's, though I ran forward for that, and I have the book which have been working on, which is about its mindfulness
loving kindness and social change, so its eight chapters on working on seven and eight simultaneously and then the and then I've got to first draft sir we're close, but just getting at there is getting worse back to the it's, not a race. I'm just wondering I asked this before and I don't think we really taste it down. I'll put it in l, keep it in the eyes of some people, say in meditation circles it can. I say I haven't gone through a healthcare. The way you have, but could I or could authority, I version of or you're old version of you or our listeners today who are out there thinking well and I want to make a living is that it's not a race sounds good, but you know I haven't done everything that Sharon Salzburg, that I can't again. The magnitude of my contributions and kind of exhale is this:
operational for other people. It's not a race. I think it is enough. Because I think we ve all incorporated it to see, mixed enter another because otherwise would be completely crazy. I would collapse long ago. You know, I think Its bring it more and more because I think it has a lot to do with quality of effort, more maybe even a quantity of Africa's, It's like. I am writing and I dont feel. I know in writing when I've been really in a bad state. I felt like just funded and enough link is there a store, ninth or tenth book like nobody cares we're guests anymore, and I worked out of that stay by getting re inspired, but I don't feel that you know I don't feel like. I owe you know. I was in the hospital and I was so sick and when I was broke
I've been swimming just now, turn in whatever I can. Now like that, I feel is because you used the word edge earlier. You know, when I think of addressing of excellence, and I feel as committed as I have ever felt, sir. Turning in something How to the best of my ability? Why? Because you wanted to reflect well on your because you think excellence will help more people. I don't think about how it's gonna reflect on me at this point, I just think that's the way to do things like if you ve got it is time- and this will be my eleventh book and. I don't know that there will be any more or certainly many more, and this is
the little with similar book. I wrote faith in a mad it something that I am very much wanted to write for some time and I got the opportune either to do it so we'll see who see what happens, but I don't feel like come how well persons book is coming out before mine and they're gonna, probably save percent of the same things? How unfortunate enough only I'd say who cares honestly genuinely like who cares. I don't think you have to lose your edge and think I'd depends, like your address, but I am you have to lose your commitment to excellence into really shining in away and nah even ambition in our having airing that, but when it gets crazy, then
it's ruining your life. You're trading. In your life, for some story, do you can strive for excellence? Has when my friend's dad's used to tell us when we're a little kid ivory excellent view can strive for excellence in this? beer it of its not a race so that you're not while striving for excellence making yourself everybody around you miserable yeah. I think that's chip, because I think it's some incremental, like we ve all done it to some extent. You know that's the lesson learned I meant the thing I saw myself of it. You knew that for any way how deeply doing no it and we keep maybe learning the same thing again and again and again, we all have changed in some way could be worse
other mantra could have been a lot worse, but it's a continual process of of growth and change, and so I think lessons learned you know like, but we just continue to get better how's your old now. I think that I hope could in alike. I I get very tired. So less so I went up to teach the insight meditation society in May, rather than a full teaching murder, Just appeared for an hour day, I'm all I spoke, we saturated questions and some days it was the way to maximize my connection to the whole group. Roman nurse, maybe sing a part of the group and small groups are individually is one one often do there are other people doing that, And I just thought this: last weekend: it grew power, Qatar and so on.
But I saw him a lot, less tired and I was made, but that some of the biggest marker is that I just I just really tired. What would you say is vin? What would you say the the hardest part about the six? once that has been contributory dear over well being, in other words, what's been the most valuable challenge. Was it stopping? Was it letting other people care of you was it facing. Death was in all of those I think all of Hudson in a lot of ways like again you like with the reflection on death, which is something I do it can also be quite abstract until it's not, I a friend and bury really inside meditation serious. Why are we said enough?
closet, Sir Mass, and if I die and you have to clean them, please don't judge me so that was our path. As a result of yours, closets really arm ass, like maybe I should be set up I had a do health directive, no, which had not done, which just accusing me you need to do this in life. The directions for caregivers yeah you know, and- and now I have- one notes- is much more real than had been b for it, was not easy to level somebody's. Whether we will take care of me. Why is this just some conditioning? I'm amused to take care of the people and the like I find it embarrassing. You know it's rooted in some way in Europe. Person History, where you know you ve, lost your mother early you're dead. Ask him as well
Probably here you know I'm in Poland, as you know that. And the way I got by was by making sure I got but, like I went cauldron of sixteen owes you handled your business here, yeah survive, so the term used surviving the way- like when you can't handle your business care walk. The nose is. I was so grateful for like that nursing staff policy and I kept apologizes. I'm so sorry another wherever they are thinking in other their incredibly gracious and an engine So my friends, you know, like you know, people have vanished and continue to really offer me a lot in our lives. It's been very beautiful, and this is always a moment of like
they're in Buddhism, telling about letting go. Oh yeah that went. This seems like a pretty big action, as my under control, why remember, when wrong does have a stroke and were heard teaching once in a while. He said he was going to talk and said something like them of all the things that happened to me after the stroke and others is significant in our like he's, been the wheelchair. Ever since my twenty years, his speech, which had been like a superpower, has been pretty affected. You know soon it gives a talk, your long silences whenever he said the harnessing of always letting people take care of me, and he said one of my
Most famous books was called. How can I help said? Maybe I should write a book now called. How can you help me because it has been an incredible model for me as a glance of this, because it was very hard for him and he's so can of porous now. It's like love is so loving and you can see his receiving it in his offering that's, not weird and anyway, it's so flowing now, and so I think about that's hard. You know it's quite hard to, different and is really hard to stop because stop the forward moment after Ford momentum. Is there. People have very different views? and levels of understanding of anyone stay in answer who the invitations to come again
Now you ve had a week. I feel, like maybe you'd like to come here, I'm so glad you got back. New York. Would you come to my inner and those are all things that if I say yes, I would do whose I was moved by them that cause they were helping my livelihood, her sustain ray you now, and so this balancing act, that's very different. That that has to happen on his heart is hurt, so you know I can't do anything I used to do so. I can't show up at your thing, or you know I will have just left very worm teaching for the first time I'm an extended retreat. I can't then or it as somebody want to read you some, extremely noble thing, which would have meant this is coming September,.
They're opening the novel things that they're opening up in brazilian center in Pittsburgh. You know after they've been that synagogue shooting in Their naming the resilience centred some alike house of loving kindness and people will go and teach them kindness and- as extremely novel Boolooroo of man, I'm teaching here and there- All day on that Saturday would have meant teaching all day going to the airport flying to Pittsburgh. Chris Progress not close as it turns out teaching so that you know- and I just wrote to the process of those days are over. You know I'm teaching all the in Trenton Airport. I just have to be over you. Okay, with that, I am okay. With that, I feel mixed. You know. I would
just the place in me that wishes they were not over, that. I could respond to that visit, so beautiful and and yet in those crazy. To see like legions of disapproving friends like what are you doing what you scared, as were the heading toward the close here. I want to make sure I didn't leave anyone axis unchecked. Is there something I should have asked it I don't know an app. Let me just say that you want to talk about your hospice training at all sure yeah, America's Beth I'll say that I was going to say later well. I've been doing a hospice training for couple years. With our mutual friends, cushion really Ellison and Robert Jodo Campbell and yeah? I see
go up. There can't be going later today. It's recording the sincerity Saturday morning originally, I was gets. A small hospice was necessary side of Manhattan and I would originally when I was doing the training a couple years ago. Three years, maybe I would go and really be irregular volunteer, where I would go to all the Now I my vote. Your training ended and I would have kind of let it lapse just because until mister do one more thing guy. I think you might be all relate to that end. But there was a patient in there. I don't think he's gonna die anytime soon, he's been there for five oh, my god, yes looks like a world record, hospice stay and a work wake Us now and so now I go and you spend time with running, and who do play violent video games, which is looming Congress in hospice, were killing zombies together, but that's the way it is. She likes video games and we have you know like on paper
nothing in common is a sixty one year old former construction work from Harlem and the weak, totally hit it off so yeah. I go in their pretty much once a week spend time with eminent. I usually ordered dinner in for him in the staff. That's why it's really nice, I will say we talk a lot about death. I was It is why I'm still terrified of death, of course, want to present. Some image is incorrect, but Unless terrify there used to be because I see that the end. At the end, most of the people, I've seen a comfortable physically, and many of them are comfortable psychologically. I've seen some people find it. Networks wrote or I've seen some anxiety said in which looks really tough, but he does. It doesn't feel wrong.
You're my fears over over time. I've started to see egg. Oh yeah, of course we're nature, and this is part of nature and we all feel it viscerally, but you can get there by seeing it over and over and over again, it just starts to feel less wrong. Look of course, yields amazing, you do that you know and is our societies. Your turn. Let's look somewhere else and outlets. Look the other way, and it's the wrong of that's what I was say about my childhood. You know that the way things Went down made, it seem wrong in our like alienated from nature. The shouldn't have happened. She knows only happen to you. You know this doesn't happen to others.
Isolated, you're alone you weird and but of course that's also what led me to Buddhism, because the first time I heard what the Buddha taught had to do with suffering is a part of life was like a right. You know I do belong. I'm not that alienated in one of the interesting things were being in the hospital. Is that partly because my father was in so many psychiatric hospitals throughout my childhood. And I would leave a facility in Vienna Street and think nobody knows what's happening behind closed doors. You know people just walking around that some sense of like a whole level of society. What people go through an ah. I have that feeling that much anymore- and I won't I
the hospital, I think you know people and we try by these places and we notice so stop and think that's the story said when they move me to an actual room out of. I fear The one who wore was an actual war was more like. Room divide our fishermen so couldn't see any. Thing going on in there, but I could hear everything like every conversation and there was a pretty rapid turnover of peoples in the next room. And so has a stories. I heard in the love different languages and I think nobody
you know, I'm driving by would necessarily think oh look at the intricacy of of people's stories and how many kinds of people are in there and and struggling, and you know when I would get up, Walker and walk by these other people, also with ivy policy on using lockers anything who are you Look at you with Israel. We meet humanity, we meet and scary places and suffering and disability in facing death and the cut off. We are usually from one another. It's because we ve structured society like Sanders workshop, where there is an island of misfit toys right, so all the misfit toys are sent to an island. We don't see them, but will always here that the working toys and now making them and all that stuff and soon is like those messed up as very quickly sent away too,
inside the hospital or inside a nursing home or a hospice, and of most of us are confronted with this in we wait until disaster strikes, but then other thing that I've really notices even is how quickly habits reassert. So you can have your friend of mine, her dad died recently. She said it was like the tectonic plates shifted for her. Now I don't know what happened in the subsequent weeks, but. I can imagine just reverting back to the old habits of. Momentum around taking care of her family and professional life. I dont know that. That's what happened I could imagine that happening from me. I can also see, were tat. What happens for me when I even though I have a sustained, not episodic vantage point. On the on the island of misfits toys on the other side of the curtain by going at a hospice regularly
and so, once in a while walking down the street lost in my own, like fog of to do list or self ear anger, whether you know practicing some long in, active I'm going hurl at my boss and then a wig only a bit, I can work, I'm walking, you know it. Which were Ronnie give to be just walking down the street right now, but those moments are pretty fuel far between most of the time I'm caught up and yeah. So it's it's. It's easier to have the realisation hard to make it last year, I mean I, I tend to I want to give you more credit for those moments than I suspect, you're, giving yourself cuz they matter to. I think progress or changes always like that, and I we take three steps forward. We take two steps back. We don't like those too.
Hopes back only we grieve over that. But it's just you know it's not as far back as we once were. And those moments, Sir, a really important and they grow. They really do grow because. I think we can get more mindful in an ordinary day, a man. There are also the big challenges and limits its there really. Is there that kind of sustaining strength of a different perspective, and they say that one of the buddhist pieces of advice, if you're sitting with someone who's dying or your with his dying, is to remind them of the goods that they ve done, I know it's just a puzzle me because I thought were wooden. That gets a more tat like us. If you say you were great cousin, I knew it took me to the park was with specific. If you can't be-
and I felt that be the last thing you want to do- is get them even more taxes, struggle will suffer more, but people ask me, of course, a lot, and I have always said that this is what I have heard. It said every single time people have come back in and said it was pressure because, instead of focusing on regret, were the things undone on learned, there was just the sense of both the power of goodness we ve been able to access and the joy of having not blocked it were hindered it in some way in. Expressed, it been a good cousin. I took the kids in the playground or something like that, and so I see a lot in in that light too. You know that if we let ourselves rejoice more.
In the good that we have been able to do where the fact that work method, or that we care about others or that you go to the hospital once a week, the lots of places to go one the weak when you are currently known and a hospice, isn't necessarily the easiest and it's not like can see their arrogance. It's like taking delight it's really reach a thing in the more we do that I think the less Terrible those moments of backsliding seem The real and and maybe say something but they're, not the whole story and I can also see how would lead to letting go, because if it happened with you When you received all of the love when you having a health crisis that allowed you to. Let go of of that allowed you to embrace it's not a race and act.
He, how the end tat, telling somebody hey job well done, then they can drop their MIKE and say. Okay, I can let go. Struggling then maybe we have to do that before the end. Well, I mean, Before you die, as is the theme with disgust, I've discussed on the show before its is, can you take the wisdom? that we often only get in those last for final moments in and in court in your life. I'm very interested in that. I'll just saying closing that unless you certainly are welcome to say anything else, you want That you know, I think what you are talking about before that we can get better at these things are you referring to that? I occasionally will wake up walking down the street. We can. We can The better over time it just goes right to life the Maybe inside of my meditation clear, which is the mind, is traceable and you ve been training vehicles.
For a long time and made an enormous contribution. Even in my own life right- and I coming here today and talking about this very painful physically and psychologically, this pain, episode in your own life, is a very powerful teacher for other people. So I thank you for sharing. Thank you for inviting me really. Thank you sure I love you. I love you too Ok, as we said at the show at the beginning, the show Sharon's doing the voice mail. This week we recorded the separately, but I think I think it will be a treat oh here is voicemail number one, starting with Tory from South Carolina. I then first
my obligatory by sea, or thank you for your pockets in your book that I have not only read the red several times. They are immeasurably helpful to me I'm. So my question is a twofold question about meditation. I meditate regularly signature much every morning pretended twenty minutes. My question is: how often should I incorporate meta in to my daily practice? Is there like a prescribed amount? How often do you do it? Is it no daily weekly or we're circumstantial, when perhaps you are having issues where the person- and my second part of the major question is on I am having trouble holding visualization. When I do matter. I've been listening to the Shirin Salts had cast an dumb. I know that she prescribed, but the boy you're thinking to meditate method. The patient thought you hold a convent visualization of the person
mind. I have real trouble doing that, for whatever reason included My family, which I find kind of disturbing- that I wondered how important it is to old, a rehabilitation like that. I and a kind of getting fleeting thought them smile. With a light around them honestly about the best I can do well and sending kind of the box towards them. Anyway. I didn't know tat something that I welcome. Better with time or if you have any words of wisdom and how I can get better with visualizing people I'm sending them, thought it. How often do you The meditation is part of your daily adaptation anyway. Thank for, Sudan by This assurance. Thank you tory fear. Both your questions actually in terms of How often do matter loving, kindness practice? It's really up to you.
I went to Burma in nineteen eighty five to do three month: intensive retreat and loving kindness that big, a four year period, where loving kindness was really my. Only practice its day, when I was sitting that's what I was doing mostly that the case for people case from myself, either anymore, I would suggest So doing it often enough that you have a sense of confidence and clarity about the practice and certainly, as you said in different circumstances, it may be really the practice. He reached for often actually found myself reaching for when I don't know what else to do. In some situation or connection with somebody. So it's really up to, and am I really honour the fact that you're putting some energy into it and internally not being able to visualize for actually honestly, neither can I it's really him up. That's one way of having met just come more alive for people, because we want concentration and we want a sense of focus, but
I don't want it to be road or mechanical or or to feel dead and someone and saw how do we get that Sense of offering to kind of pop Sense of there, being a being that we are connecting to to come were alive and and for some people that is really to the process of visualization. Sometimes it's not try to offer the option just say that name to yourself, the name of that person will be. If it is a single object, you know with all being. Sometimes it becomes more of a global sense. People do have an image say of a planet, other people. So much like this sure I'll. Send you feels energy or some sense of connection that is happening some Will actually do a curve travelogue through the world and just get a sense of echo hears are missing, three years? That is Underwater these beings in the air, whatever it might be, but but really I don't think it's a quick
Somehow getting better at visualization, you might find that you are, but it's not millions, The answer to the development of the practice so have tat was helpful already tory. Thank you for that. And crochet you calling in and now another one voicemail number two to this from MAX in Nebraska. My question is, with regard to MECCA, loving kindness meditation, so I have Harry? I think, common issue with it that it feels very artificial Oh, I contrived to have this object with a repeated said, a phrase that I am repeating to him or her May you be happy, may you be safe, etc and that's not to say it doesn't work that is done.
Get me to feeling that loving kindness, the judge has there, layer of sort of separation due to the artifice there. I find it easy to bring that feeling that loving kindness, even without that sort of order first without having to picture in August, without having to repeat these phrases, the feeling just sort of comes up Surely, if I'm looking for it and yet imagine. Many people have been able to do that before me and that not a practice is still nonetheless to think of some one in particular and to send them to sort of directed intentional thought. It's not simply calling up a feeling and rest
that so I'm wondering why do they particular benefit of having that sort of structure to having the intentional directed thought as opposed to simply resting in the feeling? So any advice you have there would be much appreciated, Thank you. Thank you max for the question. I think it's actually find to simply rest in the feeling of loving kindness monitored. Reasons that I have appreciated having a structure- and I appreciate also you That word is that, first of all, I find the sense of loving kindness may not even be a feeling, always sometimes it's a worldview. It's it's a sense of recognise. Like a person has more similarity to me than ever might have imagined or sensitive
collusion where we waste to exclude more readily or or maybe it's a false sense of connection repaying attend? and to someone who usually ignore kind of look through so we utilise the structure the phrases are, or the sense of offering of gift, giving toward a particular being very much in the sense of trying to Can that but absolutely you can you can rest in the in the feeling, if there is one- and I would just They may be now and then experiment with using. Raises, or or some sense, offering just see what happens, and especially for those times when the growth and development in the sense of connection may not be captured by that particular feeling cuz bigger than that. Let's bigger than we can imagine, usually em, there's more to it than that and dont be discouraged if that feeling doesn't come, sometimes because that's perfect place too,
actually utilise the structure of the practice and see what happens MAX. I have those helpful already makes big thanks to share and for doing that, both the interview and the voice mails, which again were recorded separately also thanks to match. We're going in and on this episode, two hundred I just want to think again and with I do this every week, but here's an extra heartfelt thanks to everybody. I really did not think it is. This show was gonna last this long. I really didn't have much foresight about what this endeavour was. Gonna tell it all went We launched it, but I'm really happy that it exists. I talked about love Or in who was the founding reserve the show she's since gone off to do other things within ABC News, but we now have a new and and and so is so has Josh Cohen. Who is the coach founding producer? Both of them have left the nest, but we now have rain Kessler, who took over the show, minimise to go and has done an incredible job, serene
to you and we also have a few folks from temporary I'm happier the company who spend a lot of time and and dedicated This amount of energy and thought to this project and those Samuel Johns and Grace Livingston, and grace in particular, has organised a group of folks that I mentioned at the top of the show the pie cast insiders who- whose comments really inform how we do our work, so I want to thank all of you in and if you're, not an insider and you're just a listener. I want to thank you as well, because without you, none of this would be possible So thank you again, we'll be back with episode. Two hundred and one next week, there's not a person in Amerika who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona, I was pandemic, but it every community. There are pockets of people who were soon.
Every day this is my last day of the cylinder stretch to drive off about photos from one of our Visa or America's essential workers, the people who are keeping moving? I turn into a home school mom and now in a new programmes from eighty see news you gonna hear from damage. I she went back to my office and so unkind because he is not here, and I can assure you that our community has found faintly worrying. This is essentially inside the from the emergency room. The police cruiser to the Czech outline Yuki one. This pandemic sounds like the people putting themselves no one's way, there's always a risk. Brain is home to re. Kids are my husband or maybe errands, listen to the essentials inside the curve on Apple podcast, river, pod, costume.
Transcript generated on 2020-05-26.