At 43 years old, Byron Katie was unhappily married, suffered from depression and agoraphobia and was addicted to codeine and alcohol. In fact, she felt so much self-hatred, she slept on the floor believing she did not deserve a bed. Yet in the midst of her crisis, she awoke one morning in a halfway house, with a sense of pure joy. A switch had been flipped and all her suffering disappeared. It had become evident to her that her thoughts were causing all her emotional pain and she had finally broken free. Katie believes she has been given a gift and now spends her life trying to help end suffering for others. Plug Zone The Work of Byron Katie: https://thework.com/ Books: https://www.amazon.com/Byron-Katie/e/B001H6S8B4 Twitter: @ByronKatie Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theworkofbyronkatie/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8dvufocK9zM6KnkronGbzA The Work App: https://thework.com/the-work-app/ ***VOICEMAILS*** Have a question for Dan? Leave us a voicemail: 646-883-8326
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
One day ass. I lay sleeping on the floor because I was so filled with self hatred. I didn't believe I deserved a bed to sleep then so, as I lay sleeping actually a cockroach crawled over my foot, I opened my eyes just the way we all do every morning and in that moment in time. I wish shown how my world was created. It was like I woke up, so weekly and so startled There was no identity, they are the mind, had not had time to catch up and I saw in that moment the causal suffering I was shown. You know it was like. There was no story. That's Byron! Katy our guests this week, talking about the moment involving a cockroach that she says changed her life and she has from
any subsequent years been trying to share that incite with tens of thousands of people through something she calls of the work. I actually didn't know anything about Byron, Katy, really, nothing but I heard you come in on the show I emailed me friend and colleague, Jay Michaelson Jay, you may have heard of him he's been on the show a couple times he's the great meditation teacher, along with also being a rabbi in a Lgbtq activist in a journal, many many other things an He also works at ten percent happier where he runs the yet talks section of the app and writer weekly newsletter anyway, smart guy, I am, with him, because I knew he was a fan of Byron Katy, which is why I said yesterday in the first place and thus enable she's coming on tomorrow. I know it's short notice, any advice and he lays at a couple things one thing he said I'm reading from his email, I've met a crap tone of spiritual teachers.
Only a small minority are as realised and real as Katy is Katy. Is absolutely the real deal. In my experience he continued a hundred per cent happier. He also some advice about how I should conduct the interview, and he said I should jettison my usual technique of asking people for their backstory instead dive right into which he calls the work and have her. HU, the work with me, so we will get into a backdoor. You just heard a snippet of it in a fascinating, quite dramatic, even more dramatic than that little clip would indicate, but we can start with her diving into this process that she is used on. So many people- and it's called the work J specifically told me- don't do any research on it.
Let her just do it on you in real time. So that's what I did and I can tell you much about it either. She's gonna describe it just one item of business, which is keep an eye on this feed, because we're gonna put up a bonus meditation from share in Salzburg soon so be on the lookout for that before the Baron Katy here is her bio. Just so you know it. Byron Kathleen, Mitchell, better known as Byron Katy is an american speak or an author who teaches a method of self inquiry, known as the work of Byron, Katy or simply the work she's, the founder of by Katy, International and organization that includes the school for the work and turn around, house in oh hi, California tie magazine described her as a spiritual innovator for the twenty first century. Europe go Byron, gaiety, okay, so Dan. I didn't. It's a joy to jettison can hang out and you're you're. What
author. I wouldn't say this is my radio studio? ABC. Look it's nice! The conversation is really nice. And Sudan Woods. You know what I mean Two meditation is how to get still and identify what you're thinking in believing and to do that, for example, oh, if someone said Byron Katy, I dont, like you and my feelings, but really hurt okay, so end its bothering me it bothering me or maybe it's Facebook, you know whatever I go back to that situation, that's bothering me, and I get still I find my favorite chair. and I get really still a night my mind in that city,
the relation. And I began to identify what I was thinking and be Lee Being in that situation, a bow, that situation that person me about the world. I just listen and I will ride my judgments down the job. two months I was experiencing, then we can see why this take stillness, so I think you and be leaving brought on so much stress. That's easy on its! It's easy! for me to do when I consider that but I was thinking and believing
The cause of my suffering, in fact, is the cause of all suffering. So it's worth identifying and questioning. So let's say I wrote down. For example, he doesn't care about me ok, so I would question it so what I bring his inquiry for questions then away They have meditating in opposites which doesn't make up, since when I tell you now, but it will when we get there, so the first question as he doesn't care about me. The first question is: is it true No, I'm not going to answer it out of that. Yes, that took me to the. Then I came into inquiry with.
I'm going to just sit and see, as I am anchored. In that situation without person says I don't like you. anchored there and I'm going to with my eyes clothes I see me standing there. I see him standing there. I see the look on his face. I can hear. The words that were spoken, that this really is a fearless fit. So is it true, he doesn't like me. Is it true? So I'm really scoping it out. silence, anchored in that moment in time. and then I'm shone through images and and mind. What I was thinking, I believe in the past and my reaction and his reaction. It isn't he doesn't care about me. Is it true
So the answer is one syllable: it's either yes or no so weak. I just stay still until I'm shown and and the second question is, if my aunt, There is no and yes or no are always equal because it's the truth were looking for. So if the answer is yes, I moved to question too. Can I and if it's no, I just kept at three. So can I absolutely no? That is true. He doesn't care about me. So I'm not gonna gas it's the truth that sets us free, I'm going to continue to anchor there and give give yes and no equal opportunity, no guessing okay. So then what I'm show now. So you can see, then, that no one can do it do this. For us, this is really personal. Now the third question
How do I react? What happens when I believe the thought so now I'm anchored in that situation in that time and place And I began to get in touch with the emotions that I felt. And I give them an opportunity to show me to an end I experienced through those emotions. How do I react? What happens? I believe that our emotions now I'm going to get in touch with. those images of past future I was experiencing when I believed the thought he doesn't care about. And I can see clearly that
conceive that that occur. On my face. Did I give him the look? Did I become on what gender DE. Did I shift into protective on? Did I make a joke. did I you know. How did I Riyadh what happens when I believe the thought he doesn't care about me I witnessed up and then I moved to the fourth question. You no going back to that. Third, it showing made the mind the cause of my suffering. And how I react when mind happens, ok in the cause of mean mindedness it it's like how do I Did I attack him? Did I'd be little M? Did I insult him? I'm wooden
Jane. I really want to know okay, so then the fourth question in that situation, who or what would I be without thought he doesn't care about me. So I take that posted. off of him know what I was believing the judge when I believed onto him. I take that post it off and- and I witness me him- the situation without the thought he doesn't care about me and all of a sudden, I'm a better listener. I can hear now what I couldn't hear, then, what I heard but couldn't acknowledge my mind- was overriding I'm really in reality, and I love that fourth question unsafe. other than what I'm thinking believing it's really play sent to be with him? And I'm learning lot about myself in this process?.
of how I react when I believe the thought he doesn't care about. Ok. So I continue in this meditative state to sit in those questions NOS four questions, and then I moved to what I call the turnarounds or opposites he doesn't care about me He does care about me that an opposite. Now, I'm not trading a negative believe for a positive vote. It's just not going to work for me. It's it's not gonna work. I'm going to meditate in that, as I continue to incur and that's base where I believed he didn't care about me in that situation with him I see it clearly. I continue to be there. He does care about me now, I'm looking at
You know, if is there something I missed words spoken the way the words he was speaking and what I believed until those words are onto those words, you know I get to see the difference. You don't care about me, and maybe I can maybe I can see something else. No, I'm not ever going to force this. I've got to have the real deal cuz all of its going to set me free. So he does care about me This is something I try on you know when I talk about trading negative or positive.
just going to try it on. He does care about me. So that's what I'm doing this. I sit in silence. Meditating in that situation,. So it's like a pair of shoes, I'm in the shoe store- and I love these shoes- I'm going to try them on. I'm not gonna walk out with shoes that that I can walk comfortably in. So I'm just trying to turn around on And if I can see something he does care about me, then there. It is, and if I can't that's, ok, it's not ok. So another opposite he doesn't care about me. I don't care about him. Ok, that situation with him, where is it.
And where did show and how does it feel I dont know. can how did I let him know that if I did it all so I'm trying to dawn like that new pair of shoes? I don't care about him. No, maybe I see something there that I need to. Maybe I'd ringing and done and admit my wrong, maybe insulted him. Admit my wrong and then make right, where I can inform me that's what my lifetime is about, making right my wrongs, beautiful way to live and its silent way of living to no one ever has to know
I'm the one, the benefits and the people around me up and let me know they benefit as well. It doesn't You're about me: ok, is there another turn around I've tried that went on. I tried two of them on. They don't care He doesn't care about me. I can't find another opposite and me you're listeners we'll find another opposite that I missed And so you can see, I'm not manipulating the judgment just doing direct turnarounds. Continuing to meditate in and that. and so that is what I call no work like their suffering and life. There's discontent and there's a reason for the suffering, and that reason is what we're thinking and believing.
Cause of all suffering, and there is a way out of that suffering, and I discovered that about thirty years ago, and it's never failed me and hasn't failed millions of people today and there is a way out of suffering, and I hope that I have done well describing that that process of inquiry I'd like to stay the workers judge. neighbor write it down ass for questions turn around and begin again there. I had a lot of questions, in my mind, as you were speaking I held back, because I thought I probably start to understand more once we got into it and who for real here. I like puerile, though any those questions you recall
One of them was, you said, examining whether he cares about mean you're waiting for an answer to arise during meditation, yes or no, but how can you trust? Answer, given that you I I can't I can't he does, he does care about me. I'm just witnessing that situation just to see what I missed and like a new pair of shoes. Maybe it doesn't fit those turnarounds don't always fit, but I'm open. Do what they can show me in one way or the other. I think I'll understand more. If we try to do we will try to do some work together in case? One stretched you out lately. Ok, I have a very what things I could say so I'll just pick one ok and I'll tell you and then, if you think, that's not
good thing work on. We can work out something ok,. for better or worse. I have a reasonable list, well, distressing me out for months? If not more not longer, is in this it. I spent an embarrassing amount of time in bed, pressing and sole sucking amount of time of sex thing about. My looks in that to two aspects of it. One is, I feel, like the Double ab muscles I have when I was in my authorities have gone. and are irretrievably for it in an irretrievable No matter how much working out I do, I can't get them back. My are tight as I sit here right now any, is that I find that when I look at myself in any, if I pass any reflective surface the on the way here walking for my apartment to work, I passed a Starbucks and I, happened to look in the window, and I could see myself, I feel like I look old and I'm up
approaching fifty. And when I look at myself in the mirror or when I look at pictures and myself, I see my dad and it s not the way I think of myself and yet I'm confronted with reality a lot so sue. You look old. ok and and so when. When we look at you, that's what we're seeing that's. that's what you really mean right the way the world sees you. Yes, in part, so you look old. Is that true now. The situation has your passing the Starbucks window. You see that image in them on the glass.
So you see that in your minds, I that's a situation we're going to anchor in all the answers. Gonna come out of that you look old. Is it true? Look at the reflection really look at that look. Is it true. Is it true? This is what our struggling with. What exactly. Do you mean by? Is it true in I mean look again yet the answer yes or no are equal. Its there's nothing tricky about this really take stillness. Look at that
Message on the glass in the glass you look old is true. I feel it's true. Ok, one syllable, yes, Kate, suggest feel that so you look old, look again close your eyes. Look old. Can you really know that it's true you look old now. Ok, now some others jumped to that. because we can really know anything but contemplate tests. And maybe your answer still yes, but it deserves time anything that would upset you
this long and to that extent deserves looking. I still do it still. Yes, now I still pay. I can't I feel when I look at I conjure that image of the frumpy nearly forty eight year old guy with the dead body walking down the street, I feel yeah that guy looks old, but when you ask you know, is it verifiable? That's not Are you use, but no that's that's not a site. Can you can you really know? Can I really know that you look all right I can remember where the world looking at. You guess that you you see,
you know that way, and so we say you that way. So it's you know this is. This is best to sit in I can I hear you're still Eddie adds up well, I'm ready, yet for I feel I look all that I can say for sure that that's the way the world sees main k so stay with. You then ok cause it's your query. So can you absolutely it's true you'll called. This is an interesting judgment to question. I Apps, I'm gonna get away don't say more than yes or no. Well, that's why this we're meditating women they taking a moment in time in time. This we're looking at it brings stress into your life. Yes Kay,
so now notice eyes closed witness experience. How do you react? What happens when you believe the thought I look old so start with emotions. Is a sense of being under attack. Is only being chased by safer to Tiger, because I am the Sabre to Tiger and the person is being changed so there sense of attacking myself. You get the feeling that fear fear Georgina's. It takes time to identify the feeling, some fear, The fear, I think, is related to death. Probably this is all going on as you look reflection, yeah. Ok, how do you
We add emotionally, when you think the thought I look old. But I feel bad about myself and where do you feel that Jessica checking your chairs and how far reaching than that Take your time how much of your body does it take over from your chest up to your neck, your shoulders, your head? on your facial expression, maybe a guy down as far as your stomach you're you're up her legs, just just get in touch with the emotion maybe two or three inches above the solar plexus. circular area of tension, not super deep right
and then maybe some tension above the nose between the eyes good, so just allowed her emotions are. We fear and in that third question we learn to understand. More about emotions, we disregard them so easily so quickly. Now I do experience the emotions. What was going on in your head, what images of past and future as you pass that window you look at that image in the window. What images of pass future occurred to you? What do you?
See what did you see in that situation has more vivid. I just saw any little shards of images of myself as a younger, fitter dude. Yes, since we see that and in the future what occurred, we hear the images of the past the image of the future I didn't get any images of the future I have won. I heard you say you want me to share with you. Yes, you see
images in your minds I of your father, not at Starbucks this morning, but I do frequently in those moments were in that in that situation. Yes, I do now you compare that young past image with the future image of you in your minds. I looking like your dad and in some ways. And you compare those two now: this is what men down by life ass, a dream, those images of asked future and then what you'll be leaving onto them.
the cause of your emotions, it's a movie. It is the dream world. It is its like who are you the question who am? I you're, the one of the future. Is that and are you the one of the past? Is that down the one, walking down the street. I mean there are three selves. Now, who would you be with out the thought? I would just be the damned walking down the street present yes home in yourself
double- I wouldn't have over the comparative. No, so look at the image walk. You walk, by just the way you did look at the image without projecting on to them pass future. You ok. It is hard not to do without the protection to notice that you're you're witnessing the cause of all suffering. it's, not your body. It can never be it's what we believe about our bodies, that is the cause of suffering of bein uncomfortable, and you know it We took our mind to the gym as off
if we take our body to the organ that much attention just imagine the health in this country, so I'm old. What is the opposite of I'm old and young? Okay, so just try that pair of shoes. Try this issue on I'm old. So what are you experiencing? If I'm trying only I'm young shoe on walking down the streets in the rear?
election in the glass. I'm yup feels, like a stretch, can suggest experienced no experience yourself in the fourth question, who you are with out the thought without those false selves running in your head of past future when young? How did your body feel without the thought How does it feel physically? You described it to us already in the fourth question: how does the body in the mental image feel or
how's. My body right now feel, as I think, about this walking down the street just the way you dead, as you witness that now and look at that pass self that that self. Without his story, I'm old turned around I'm young. I had on it just feels there's nothing in print
You're going out just feels like that feel the weight of my body, just as it is catching up to reality. Few people do because simply because we don't know how to me without my story, I'm way less time. Age laws. I'm doing this work with you and it's what I am able to live with that question. Is it true alive Allowed its base in my life in it
part of my mind. So how would this work we ve just gone through the steps? Will miss discontinue, ok, there's more, I'm old turned round, I'm young, I don't I don't. I don't see another turn around. I could sit and as a wild, and I would find I would find done you know possibly find another one. What I learned enough Dan is that image. in the glass, that's not real. That's not you! I'm old! Is that true, I'm looking at a glass and that's not me that raising No one has even seen their faith we look in the mirror in the mornin brushing our teeth, and we
B, Lieve onto the image in the mirror and where to All too fat, too lazy are absent, ride it some, you know it what Einstein said. Imagination is everything he didn't say. Almost everything, everything everything and Socrates said a mind. A life unquestioned is not worth living. And how many of us can identify the judgment when we experience those emotions you are describing and we look to what here the judgments were experiencing, that's the cause if he motioned it's the cause of everything, so it was crazy. Is We haven't been in touch with the simplest thing, which is how to question I didn't.
By the judgments and questioned them and get stolen, but are we just went through vat, and yet I have Maybe this is just another story, a reasonably high conviction that the next time I look in the mirror, the same. are going to come back. Could happen is just unfinished business now we have worked with one concept on Byron, Katy dot com, it's simple one hundred percent free- you just go there and what we have got together in this morning. It's all there. How did do it. what to do when nothing else works you that's really. What we're talking about here is some. It's there's a judge, your neighbor workshops and and and
All the instructions are there, it's nothing more than a way of identifying what we were thinking and believing in any given moment, and it's so you can. You could write homework, cheat their six questions on it about just seen the image in the in the glass. So we worked with one concept and that judge your neighbor worksheets. as it came to me it it included everything you know. I saw how the mind work I want I need you should I shouldn't took into Egypt they're just about six things way there are just. We wonder why our lives are boring. You know where just I'm, I'm too fat, I'm too fat, I'm to them You old, I'm too old, I'm too old it's over and over and over and its it son, not a little thing that we are discussing here this morning. So this work.
Yet we just did inquiry inquiry Michael, correct in because I didn't do. I will borders. I didn't do a ton of research going into this discussion. Are you saying we would? I would repeat this exercise, Ad infinitum, until there's a hundred percent freedom as you until you understand, what's really going on as you pass a reflection on the glass I mean it's? Our freedom is our birthright. Politics can give us that freedom is our birthright. Only we can give us that, and this is taking full. responsibility for what I'm thinking and believing that suit. Is responsibility until then,
the way I reactors is. I accuse people my mind is: is full of none and Anna and Self Judgment, and it some it's not a great place to live. You know you're writing my mind, but but it is just to get clear on this one word or I would repeat this exercise It is needed as needed, and it's nothing you have to do it's just you know you want to be free or not. it's just an I really dead in a we talked earlier about panic attacks but ass we started Roy. We retire economic effect. I just do you know if I just want anyone to have to suffer when you and I have experienced in that stay tuned, more of our conversation,
is on the way, after this better help offers since to professional councillors specialised A wide array of issues like depression, anxiety and grief, conduct with their profession, counselor and a safe private online environment? It's a truly affordable option and listeners can get ten percent off your first month by going to better help dot com, slash happier, fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with the counselor you'll love. I was just reading before I was told not to do any research. I did get one some. Seventy sent me a page from your most recent book, which describes at the most recent books call them I'd at home with itself any. This page describe some of your personal history, its hind leg, I went through a really rough patch. Can you just you? I just for more than a decade. I was
so depressed and a I could it was. It was so difficult those last two years of that even leave my bedroom. How old were you at this time? I was. I was forty three and you were mom a mom of the three agri, children and and trying to raise my children and agenda a Goro phobic paranoiac attacks, horrible horrible, it so it's I don't want anyone have to suffer the surface of his pardon substance, abuse where you everything you know It was substance abuse it was alcohol on my husband at the time was was having like he was into like its fourth hearted tat. The doktor said a few small. You know it's going to kill you.
And he was still smoking and and So you know I was living a lot of tear raising those children and so but in the family at the same time, just somehow even just doing it by phone but We don't have internet and in those days what were you? What was your profession at the time mother? I was just good at at at at making money. And but how did you know it at the time I was terrified. The amount of And he never matter is terrified of not having enough did you have any exposure imitation at this point. Also Cyril: zero, zero that whispered those people-
in other words, every year, and I read your weird people, you ended up in a halfway house and they put you in the attic for for eating disorder and on and on because my insurance wooden wouldn't cover. what I thought I needed. That is the only thing they they would cover, and so I said yes, I was really desperate and somehow got there and as an yes in the attic, because, oh this is, I don't know the words seemed like I'm stumbling around, but little Basically, there were two or three other people there when I arrived and they were, they were afraid of I have no idea why they told me this much later I heard you had gone well. That was,
at home in bed just. Just a gun under my pillow age, it sounds crazy, but of course I was crazy. So on the male man would was a lie, brick home DE the way, drop. The male entered. The house was a brass male slot, so he would pick it drop the mail and and then it would fall against that. You know, though, the brass against a brass, and I could hear it upstairs and it would terrify me it's like he touched my house, I'm down. I was really wet So it's so nice of suicidal it was difficult. Even take a breath I'd look in the mornings, and I'm just, I think, all of my god. You know
it's like waking up into hell and and so so they they said they go along with me being their fun. If they put me in the attic, there was a little room up there. So one day ass, I lay sleeping on the floor because I was so filled with self hatred. I didn't believe I deserved a bed to sleep in so make perfect sense that I bought on the floor to me so, as I lay sleeping actually a cockroach crawled over my foot I opened my eyes just the way we all do. Every morning I open, my eyes and in that moment in time. I was shown how, however, how my world was created, what created it and- and I
was it's like at the time there was no identity, it was. It was like I woke up so quickly and those startled there was no identity, they are the mind, had not had time to catch up with the the the waking eyes, let's say and and and I saw in in that moment the causal suffering I was shown. You know it was like. There was no story, I saw I stopped Like a ceiling. And walls, but I so saw that prior to me, the mind nay mean that that be Secondly, they didn't exist. We
have to name things before we can be leave them into being and and and you know I saw sky and window and and and see lean and floor and end, and it was this body was adds. Impersonal is anything that I was looking at act and so the work these fork questions an opposite came out of that moment. I would I too people wanted to see if they wanted to know what was his radical chef, because even my children didn't recognize me, it was the same body, but it will. I would just unrecognisable to my family in the shift was to some radical
so on they would say you know people would say what happened and you RO. I tell something like this: I'm still having difficulty with it and on an but ice I saw how suffering was created and how to that and in my believes, like yours, walking by the window My believes were so ingrained that I you these questions myself to stay awake and I know there are meditate earth. There are people in the world that have you noticed just amazing experiences of fun, fun. Of enlightenment, let's say freedom and but the mind overrides it until until we're not
touch with the realisation we were and touched with its it's like it's some what we're believing over. It keeps us from the awareness, but the What we become aware of us. We do this work and it's always there and so I question anything that overrides it and in this process in you and I looked out Eventually, people began to, I won. Go back a moment, play say you know: what is this? What have you done, and I couldn't tell it had no words, for it words, not only diminished, it. As you can see now, it confuses even the issue, but I learned to
I learned to offer people this inquiry, and and and thereby taking it in. You know they're there actually using it and it doesn't take people on a spiritual path. It it. Just anyone whose mind is open to a question can do this work, and so you know I mean I know my job that would give an end and on and on Did you ever have formal meditation training now still to this day still to this day? So, but this work in its method is meditation, that's what it takes so on and so yeah and an either you know down. I don't think I've. I don't think I've been out of that meditative state for over thirty years, since the cockroach yeah yeah.
And I dont think it matter. It is just that and I think that people have a right to know the possibilities of on a free or life. So there are two parts, better to, I think, worth at least two parts worth examining. One is one the moment with a cockroach on the floor of a halfway house for use, orders. I know you said words can only confusing. further, so I apologise in advance for effort trying to elicit more words. I sat a year viewed Eckhardt totally the great in best selling spiritual, you're an author and and he told me a similar story of her being in in distress.
In his apartment. I think in London, and after have years and years of depression anxiety, any just had a moment where he had what he calls a spiritual awakening in then afterwards he was living on park benches in a state of bliss I, as a secular west materialist here, a story like that and I get pretty sceptical. so well in a rightfully, so you know what it means we have to wait a lifetime for it and then on our debt big time. It's not fair, I didn't than it does. What I love about this work, kids, it son it's for everyone whose mind is open to it and we're just dealing with our own lives and taking responsibility for the cause of our suffering, Why dont you climb relieving, we don't need a cock, rabbit, lewd lay not my no one has to get a sick as I am. I'm is really my men.
As I was, and so really it's- and this was Second part of the question in your life after that moment We had this big moment. Be you you? you sustain the realisation through the continuous use Is it true? true and noticing how I react. What happens when I believe the thought and who I am in that situation without the and then try on opposite and really just that, it's it's! It's some You know it when I say have you ever eaten, have you ever seen a banana you see and you see an image of that banana in your minds. I anyone who think they ve ever seen a banana can do
Its work is just as simple and its away to cut throat. Tell me for what I saying is accurate. It's a way to cut through the stories were constantly telling ourselves which are the source of our and mine, when I would say two way of understanding the mind, its held the mind can question itself How the mine comes to understands itself and can rest in itself and live Fearlessly, what needs to be lived out you if I understand that Could you say more about why about what you just said when I believe my thoughts. They suffer when I questioned them.
I notice I need to haunt and if I do, I just simply become responsible enough to take care of my own life, my in the cause of of fun any stress and show getting practical. Let's go back to my, pretty embarrassing little body this more fit. I been the world when you you, you know you you're you're, you're you're, just bribing the world you're talking about all of us. and I can have these thoughts about my body. You were talking about your ads. I can have thought about my book about this body. My body in June. doesn't bother me. It's like a comedy, show so the pact the the male arrives, but there's nobody taking delivery of aid.
I'm not attached to it, and that doesn't mean I dont disregarded the extreme office that I honour every thought the wants to help- and I am more than thirty years I haven't met a thought I haven't loved her. we love something we get connected to it. I mean to. Understand the cause of the entire of ones. Entire world is news It's not a little thing and it's a privilege. We can do it so back to them my my stuff about the duel, self regulation around looking old and having a belly its when I see that happening. the move is to correct in tat moment tomorrow or the more all just later on, oh yeah, and if you have a few about specific time that you set aside for this, let's say in the morning to sit for tat,
twenty minutes, your ear judgments. Org are wrong. Down and with it with the foreman on your website might ass it s really help also is a one belief at a time. Work cheat on that walks. People through what you and I just walk through with the your body, a mention them in the gulf. Surely I can take my ten fifteen minutes of meditation and go through this, oh, absolutely or even harder for there's. No there's no question here that this isn't that doesn't give just radical insight into an open mind. Do you talk before about a hundred per cent freedom? There is a big. Well, I would- and I could only claim that in a moment What else is there? It's not?
recent freedom in every moment going to know where I can say so far so good for you, but I can't know that future. For all. I know it's something's gonna completely. Dress me out, I'm wide open to us just unfinished business, but for. the rest of us. A hundred percent freedom. Is that really on the menu. You know nothin! Nothing. I suggest I just say start with what hurts and and and and it helps us ease up enough to change the diapers without stress and do the dishes. and all it takes to start moving down this road is the ten to fifteen minutes a day of working of sitting on an open mind with these questions. I am, I find it very intriguing, before we close good. I sensitive to your your time can tell me you, you have this new book a reminded home with itself. What what's
their stuff in there that we haven't covered in this discussion this is a there's there's a lot of us of what people refer to as some as I don't I, is really far out for a beginner s. and I have to share it because it's my experience so there's the book, but I think for beginner on loving what is my first book love I said you would recommend for beginner to go back to that boom, loving what is and end on, and even before that I would Honestly recommend my website where people can go. immediately to how to do this in I'm not its best representative sitting with you today that it so you know I've been able to put it in writing so separately. So clearly that that's what I said
so you have, if I was your publisher, I'd, be annoyed at you, but basically what you're saying is go print. These works. far from your website for free and just do that Well, you know my. I was the end of suffering Levin, given a gift and that's that's priority and that's my job here, not selling books. I knew you know. Selling books is great, you know, but you know it's a is. This is a funny topic. I hope my published. well understood before they publish the book, but my job is an emphatic before before publishing I set with everyone in that publishing House too, executives from the top to the bottom, maybe twelve, sixteen people there and everyone here
to do the work and the publisher did the work himself before I saw the park and I don't sell my books to publishers that that don't understand it. My last publisher forum, a minded home. This was not for him. We did the work on his arm and his father. Julie and blew his mind and but he had a judge, your neighbor work she prepared. I think that was the difference and and I'd love that you notice. When you look at that mention the mere an end, any any difference that that you do it
Experience, because the mind would tell us, you know, I'm gonna believe the same thing when I when I pass, but you know I'm who knows Is there anything I should have asked you, but didn't you know also I'm on Youtube, I'm trying to think you know what is and I have an hour by them it's ninety nine cents or dollar, ninety nine or something that is nothing more than the judge, your neighbor work sheet end and one believe at a time where cheat and my voice of supporting people all the way through as we done today, walking through working people through the work. What's the name of their work? Ok, I really
doing the work with me and I'm telling you right now. I will give it a shot anymore extended work as it seems like that is important, and will I certainly invite you to it. That's that's for sure. It's intuitive that with you this morning. I give thanks again to Byron Katy. I just want to be Quick announcement before giving voice, males, you're gonna notice an aesthetic change on this pike S pretty soon. We are changing I we're going to be using some of the look and feel of the new color parrot palate and imagery on the temperature happier app and we're gonna start spelling The name of the Pike S differently so spell it out as tee and p r c anti. Instead of using one zero percent sign So that's coming up in a couple weeks. It is going to be shocked when you see it our use of voice mouse,
and the familiar from New Zealand. First of all, thank you. Fourteen percent happier that's really Watch me on my meditations journey. Secondly, I just had a son wondering about really talked about in the book how you head, when you interpret traits this amazing experiences and see what you are foreign after meditation than your wandering around thing theory than unicorns. Basically- and I wondered if that happened again and when can I expect this to happen to me, I thanks a lot by. There are no fit just to be clear, no fairies, no unicorns, I did, however, haven't amazing experience used the word euphoric, that's probably in the right neighbourhood. I have. I have a lot to say about your question, limited by if, if for those of you are unfamiliar with what she's referencing in the book percent happier, I wrote about my first meditation: retreat was attending silent, meditation retreat.
in California, and I hated it intensely- really hated it for days and was really struggling against. All of it thought I was wasting my time I hated every around me. I thought I was getting nowhere doing wrong lot of physical pain. Lot of boredom and before five days in I've, had a gave up and stop trying so hard and that's when the practice really open up for me and I was able to really click in to the present moment. I think I described it as the way the first couple of days of their retreat were, if like I being dragged by a motor boat by my head. And then on day, four or five. When I had a little bit of a breakthrough, it was like
up and water skis as really incredible as kind of dragged kicking and screaming into the right now, and yet it was as a road was accompanied by a big blast of serotonin You felt great and realise how much of my life and walking around in autopilot pilot, stuck in Rejection or rumination, and instead I was really enjoying. Things as they were, which turns out is a pleasing when done nor at right circumstances and in the right way? So yet I was quite dramatic and you asked when can I expect that to happen to me? I think that this close to a verbatim repetition of what you said I know for sure used the word expect and let me say this expectations I have learned the hard way are the most noxious thing you can bring to the meditation party expectation, is just another way of saying the word desire or wanting something to be a certain way.
And that is a right there in the words of the Buddha a hindrance to meditation meditations like this weird. video game where you can't move forward. If you want to move forward, you advocate a put yourself into this kind of position of neutral in order to make quote on quote progress, but you can't trick yourself or fake it into neutrality and now here, by the way, I'm talking mostly about meditation in the context of a retreat, although it is true offer treat too, but many of us get on retreat. My of included, and we really want something to happen. I have a friend when my colleagues at temperature happier Dhahran one of our engineers super smart guy and he just finished his first ten day. Meditation retreat emphasis. debriefed with him on how it went, but going in
it was really worried that nothing is going to happen, and I was explained to him that that's a little bit of a recipe for trial Although also kind of unavoidable we are, we are many of us Taipei folks and we want to win it meditation and I have out over and over on retreat that the only pay for that to happen is for me to go through the cycle of wanting it. So bad idly and then finally giving up- or, as my meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein has said, to me many times at key moments in retreat on retreat, rather surrender by which he doesn't mean. You know like surrender all my money to him. He just means stop trying so high. and it is always after that, for five days of meat punching myself out and running myself, ragged that when I give up for real that I have had many times very interesting,
experiences. So the Good NEWS is. Those experiences are there to be had as far as I can tell that the bad news is expecting them to happen seems to rule them out. Yeah, so hope that answered the question. I hope that doesn't change you from going deeper into meditation. I found that as painful as this cycle is it's a thousand percent worth it. Let's do voicemail number two again Linda in Washington, D C, I M a teacher, and I take your own country school and I teach mindfulness and conflict resolution and for promotional warning and I have been very successful in teaching loving kindness. I call it at school heartful nets with my elementary school too, and it is reasonably gotten a request to write a curriculum for a new middle school,
and as much as I want to include loving kindness in the curriculum, I'm nervous about how to prevent the Netherlands, the concept that the language to kids in middle school- these are gonna, be Lee kids of color and some english language learners, mostly lower income- and I know from company features that culturally, this whole thing is gonna, be a little but foreign to most of the kids and many that,
So the usual. I may you be happy language, I think, is maybe gonna beat of pudding, and I know that you have been writing about this and think about the thing it's for your next book, as many of you had come across language that was more reliable and more comfortable, maybe furled or kid refer adults who, like you, I guess, but a bit allergic to the the heart. Talk, I'd, love to hear it. I thought he had on that and I am as always. I think so much for everything you you mean some me in your work. Has helped me enormously and help me to hobble advocates to thank you. Thank you so much and good on you for doing the work you do and I think you're, probably making it a massive difference in the lives of these children.
I don't know that I have a silver bullet for you when we just say a bunch of stuff, and hopefully somewhere in there is a somewhat useful nugget. Am. I also have some some input from my colleague Re Housman, whose much more highly trained meditation teacher than I am, so. So it's often said you know we in matter meditation or loving kindness, meditation classically. We repeat these phrases like baby happy may be safe. you be healthy? May you live with ease. it often been said that you can make up your own phrases. I dont I've were heard anybody come up. I've never heard any different phraseology that that doesn't mean there isn't. It just means that I have never heard it myself, but I think you can start to play around with that, perhaps- and maybe even work with the kids to come up with different ways to lead
which the this kind of well wishing you might want to go back and listen to I've had George Mumford on the show before and he's had a lot of luck, teaching, meditation and compassion to athletes and folks in the NBA and share in Salzburg once asked him. How do you talked NBA stars about compassion, and his answer was, I just say, don't be Haven, that's just at his ease ease somebody that might be worth investigation, but the The real answer my mind is not so much to tweak the phrases but to tweak the way, your teeing the whole thing up, because what worked for me personally in terms of adopting this, what this pact said I found a beach deeply off. Putting an annoying and saccharine was to have it explained that that it works that there is science behind this and that people I received
do this on the regular and get a lot out of it and so on might be worth researching practitioners? matter or loving kindness to whom your students can relate Which will allow them to have an open mind when you get down to the practice that should have a thought that come to mind. As I consider your conundrum, I think, tells a useful tool, Let you hear a little bit of what of my colleague re has and had to say about this. Her point was, at its first holds great, that you're getting curious about making this practice accessible to people, indifferent communities, but her thought was that we might have. the careful about assuming that so called heart centric language will be off putting two folks
and sheets and tears of a resource she recommended, and I wish I had thought of this- the Holistic Life Foundation which it base in Baltimore Maryland Ali Smith, who is one of the co founders of HIV? has been on the show shingle back and listen to him. He and his rather odd man and there and Andy founded H. Eleven and ended the brief stories that they many years ago went into some of the toughest schools in a very tough city, Baltimore and said, give us your most problematic children. Then taught those kids how to do yoga and meditation, and They have had extraordinary results and what very powerful now is that as the programme has, EL too many many more schools, the people doing the teaching are the children who took the course initially and so very power to have re, makes this point very powerful for students to be learned
from people who look and sound like them, so. as an excellent point and an I think shall I might be a good place for you investigate for ways to to approach a practice in one other point: it re may I agree with. Is that what it I left. Does that is particularly useful? Is they combine the yoga? You may already be doing this, but having some movement in there can can be useful, are at a hope of something in there was useful for you again good on you for doing this work, its super important big thanks to everybody involved in putting the show together, rang Kessler by a producer, also Samuel, Johns, Grace Livingston and our podcast insiders, who, every week a shower us with useful and sometimes tough feedback, but also always
and thanks to you for listening will be back soon, with a guided meditation from sharing. That we're networking opposed in the Pike S feet and, of course, a new episode. Every Wednesday talk. He soon. there's not a person in America who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona I was pandemic, but it every community. There are pockets of people who were soon
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