« Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris

#215: What's Your Motivation? Thubten Chodron

Thubten Chodron was born in Chicago and grew up near Los Angeles. She felt her life's calling was to help others, so she became a teacher, landing her first job in the inner-city schools of Los Angeles. Looking for something to do during summer break, she saw a flyer for a meditation course being taught by two Tibetan Lamas. Little did she know, taking this course would change the trajectory of her life. The teaching that resonated with her most was about setting motivations. She realized that though she was doing good things in her life, the motivations she had for doing them were self-centered. Chodron wanted to dedicate her life to living selflessly and with altruistic intentions. She felt the only way she could do that was to let go of her worldly attachments, including her marriage, and become a Buddhist nun. She believes we all have the potential to be happy and live altruistically, but we get in our own way. In this episode, Chodron offers her thoughts on how to set selfless motivations as we live our everyday lives. Plugzone: Personal Website: https://thubtenchodron.org/ Sravasti Abbey: https://sravastiabbey.org/ YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/sravastiabbey Books: The Compassionate Kitchen: Buddhist Practices for Eating with Mindfulness and Gratitude https://www.amazon.com/Compassionate-Kitchen-Practices-Mindfulness-Gratitude/dp/1611806348 Other book titles by Thubton Chodron: https://www.amazon.com/Thubten-Chodron/e/B000APM652
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
For maybe see the ten percent happier vodka in her he thinks giving to our american listeners and, if you're, not here in the? U S, sending you my usual love. We have great episode this week, dumped in children she is, don't don't don't be fooled by the serious sounding tibetan none name? She is very serious, has written a bunch of books on Buddhist philosophy in practice, including co, author of books without the Dalai Lama but she's also really self deprecating and really down to earth. She was born in Chicago right this delay was a teacher. It was happily married forty three years ago, when she decided to become a nun and has gone off and now teaches all over the world and as written, some of the books that have already mentioned she's. Also written a book about
eating and sharing meals and a buddhist and mindful Spirit, it's called the compassionate kitchen. We spend, at a time here talking about her life as none, but we also talk about big issues, including What is your motivation and we are all operating in these questions? We don't like ask ourselves, many of us we're alive rating, often on these sort of and acknowledged scripts and habit patterns? But what's what's act Driving us, can you work with that? got me thinking a lot about that issue, and another question she poses is: what is enough? Another thing that I think a lot of people don't wrestle with, but is the fascinating thing to do and then toward the end. Here in this tat, we talk about her book, the compassionate kitchen, so much dear so here we go: here's the din children. How often do you set motivations and why Oh the, why is because our motivation,
is the most important aspect of whatever we do, it's not what we do that make something worthwhile or wholesome it's our motivation for doing it and since her motivations as ordinary beings are usually self centered. I'm thinking about. How can benefit from the US, then? Ah, As a buddhist practitioner, I try. You know before I start things to generate a positive motive. asian and thank you no long term, not just oh my play. sure this life, oh I'm coming to be interviewed by Dan Harris now I'll be fame. Is I forget that, and I dont want to have that kind of money- face ok so too, to really stop and get
tat, with what's important in my life, so I do when I first wake up in the morning at the monastery We were there, we have after breakfast. We have a short meeting. We do it there before all of our teachings before all of her meditation sessions before we launch all throughout the day, we we pause and to come back to our motivation. I love this I shall be very interested in the issue of motivation. Do you none the less notwithstanding all of the motivation setting you just described that woven into the fabric of your day, do nonetheless notice, occasionally self interest, grouping and occasionally come on it's like all the time I mean This is the way we are who do we
think about all day long me me me, who do we dream about building a me me me when we up in the morning, do we think about oh how're other living beings? What's their experience, are they suffering? Are they happy? How can I benefit? We think about anything. You know. Tat we wake up in the morning and it's like. Ok, I wish my coffee and that's what gets this out of bed nets like you know who wants to go through your life with? That is and motivation just seeking Have you no sense, pleasure and reputation, and all of that, so you know my natural way is to go after all tat stuff, I'm an ordinary being, but it's like you know. If you're gonna have a spiritual life, you have to start counteracting peck and motives mission, but is it? Is that kind of self? It wouldn't. Let me just say that the self
you say you're describing as normal? bearing that in mind my that's as I get a mild description of, what's happening for me, but is it really true verbal I think it about my wife for a second I'm not in my wife's mind, but judging by her behaviour she may wake up in the morning worrying about our four year old son or her dad, whose hats and health issues means it. Is that true for fur? Is it really true for most people that kind of non stop me me me? I think it is you now and then we Do you think about other people, but is usually the people we care about if we think about people? we don't like well, we think about them, but you know: what's our motivation towards them made they get hit by a Trappist, completest yeah show ah show again it's like remember the first course I went to my teacher said if you help you,
Franz and harm your enemies, that's not any better than a dog. Does it? That's what dog does you know, helps their friends fights the enemies and he was saying you know if you want to be really human and really take advantage of her potential, then we have to counteract that and really open our hearts to want to benefit. our living beings. Whether we like them or not, whether we know them or not, so if we wake up in the morning. Thinking about the well being of our of the people. We love that's just an expansion of the ego. Basically it's good, at least we're not thinking about our you. Now and it's good to think about others that were fond of, but it's good to even go beyond that. And when I say like just think
about ourselves and being self centered, it's a certain cause, I'm not saying we shouldn't take care of ourselves I'm not saying that. Ok, there's a healthy way to take care of ourselves and a way to take care of ourselves with a good motive. Patient and then there's our usual up, Emma of you. Now. How can I get something out of bed? the Euro immediate pleasure praise and approval reputation, possessions monies dad is so too. You know that's the self centered knows that we wanna let go of, but we do need to take care of ourselves and in a healthy unrealistic. Why does doesnt what you're just scribe led to? If I
I would support that attitude into my life when that lead to me being in robes. In other words, I would think about that ethnic necessities, but I wouldn't trying Bill day, you know, build a big company, as I am trying to do or or bitten grow. The audience of this podcast cast said her theirs you can do those things that you are describing, but with a different motivation. Another word self sunniness doesn't have to be the motivation if you're doing podcast in your having guess come in, you know- and you think, may through these conversations, and will you know the wisdom that these people talk about, may that in influence all the people who year the pod, cast a beneficial way so that they can become kind of people? so as I seek to grow the out into the podcast, I shouldn't be doing it because it would you know,
ragging rights or whatever it is that debts vow that's at stake. There is more like. Can I help other people exactly? exactly because you know you can make a ton of money from doing this, and your name can be all over. You know, lower ever yeah. Unwilling you like that great, but when you die, what happened with its own is going on? you know, and when you go into your next life, none of that stuff comes with you, How do you know where I live? It makes sense. You know when you think about logically, that everything that functions has caused things, don't come out of nowhere show if you look at our consciousness
each moment of mind. Had the principal cause was the preceding moment a mine. She you trace that back to conception. Where did that first moment, mine come from. it didn't come from the body, because the body nature is Adamson molecules the minds. Nature is not physical and anyway. So the only thing you know, each proceeding. If each moment of mine Proceeding moment in mind that it was his cause, then also the first moment of mine in this life had a proceeding, Is your. Evangelizing on behalf of and that's my term, not yours of, on behalf of compassion, move in any way wedded to or dependent upon this belief in rebirth. Oh yes, it is yes so, but what if I have seen no evidence for rebirth, although your case,
carry some gravity for me, carries gravity, that's that here is some way it for me, but I don't really like I'm not going to pound the table and say karma and rebirth, or I can prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Does that mean that I am incorrigible when it comes to the vet? No, you can still cultivate compassion yeah, but when you have a perspective of multiple lifetimes it really change is the key. the way you have compassion and the reach of your compassion and what you have compassion for Y yeah. Ok, usually in our society when we say compassion for living beings, suffering people, think of the outer kind of suffering.
You know. I have kidney disease. I have cancer, you know stub my toe physical suffering or mental suffering, which in the west we have, I think, much more of then physicals Thank you know my relationships aren't going well. I lost my job and pressed I you know all this in a mental stuff too. We usually think of what regular people, identifier suffering, that everybody knows. Okay, but in buddhism- and I am speaking as a buddhist here you know, and but it's not it's on my own belief. You know in Buddhism? Worst thing? That's not.
That's one level of unsatisfactory experience, but there's other levels to yeah like another level of unsatisfactory experience. Is that whatever gives us pledge If we keep doing it again and again, it stops giving us pleasure when you're hungry you eat? It gives you pleasure if you keep eating you, get a stomach. Show it's like things that Thus pleasure are not plus durable in their own nature. You hafta do it in a certain manner in a certain way certain limit, because we you keep doing it. You like you Fallen love, unlike that person is more less. I always want to be with them, but if you're with them data,
do day change them. Twenty four seven. What happened under other experience would be unpleasant. Yeah, so show that neither level okay of unsatisfactory experience and then an even deeper level. Is the fact that we have a body and mind the way we do that they quickly or not in our control yeah. From a buddhist viewpoint, we say there under the influence of afflictions and karma. This is why we want to be free from this situation and wide them. There's the importance of having a path to that freedom to attain awakening, because Ah, you know as long as were born and a body that has this nature its kinder. You know the moment, your boring! You start aging and start going towards death.
and so when we think that you know what's behind this, it's it's our ignorance and are afflictions in art karma, because we do so much negativity in trying to be happy. And yet you know the nature of her mind is something pure and clear, and we have the potential to to cultivate, love and compassion for everybody. Equally, ok, without bias without well I'll, have compassion for you as long as you're nice to me, but just have a totally open heart at that wants to give? Because that's where do things you know, and we have the potential to to realise the ultimate nature of reality and to free our mind from this ignorance and afflictions, incarnate
so we have this amazing him potential and we don't use it and that's the tragedy. You now The tragedy we running around like chickens without our head, a you know, for what I'm wasting that potential and show you to get back to the question you asked me if, in just believing in rebirth change, how I have compassion it yeah, it does because I look now- and it's not just the outlined of compassion that that I, the out kind of suffering, sorry that I have compassion for I try and think the compassion that you know what sending things are doing, simpering them ultimate happiness and that they have potential new, not using it. You know and anti cultivate mass
for that should really changes the nature of the compassion, but why describing right, there doesn't seem contingent upon rebirth. I it is because we keep getting reborn under the influence of our ignorance and that I see as it That's condition the next life. Yes, but go another thing I nor, given that I have heard, I believe I've heard made by focusing in tibetan tradition that I thought your who say is if, if we're in this endless cycle of rebirth at some point, even the the the guy were there might have been my mother right, yeah, there's that two yeah there's that that they ve all been kind to us in this life for previous lives will be kind to us and in future lives. You have compassion on that basis,
but you know you also have compassion just realising that everybody successfully like me wanting happiness, not suffering, no difference between us, and on that basis. How can I really look out only for my own happiness and work to cure my only my own suffering Let me say as much a word so that I can give you enough time to take a super that water, that your eye, to buy it and give it a compassionately argued some time egg here, but I get this is such an interesting question because you it does cut against the grain our habit. to all way of being when you, you know out for ourselves to speak for myself out for myself so how do we operational lies your advice, you know, would you would you recommend that, her setting motivations with Sir
regularity and repetition throughout the day, work I will wake up in the morning before we go into a meeting. What would that look like? What kind of meditation will we practice to help our help us escaped from what the author David Foster, while, as has described as a skull sized kingdom, which I really like to escape from this or what the Dalai Lama has called self cherishing. Yes, who talk talk about how we can put into practice what you're describing? Ok, now, the eighth, it's not difficult. It's not difficult. first of all, when you first wake up in the morning before you even get out of bed yeah what I do is I sent my motivation for the day, so I say to myself. First, What's the most important thing that I'm gonna do today the most important thing is not to hurt anybody. everything else on my calendar and
employment in this and that the other thing that secondary. Most important thing today is not to hurt anybody. another most important thing, there's more than one most important is to benefit others ass, much ass. I can, and one of the other, whatever big or small way, I'm capable of and third is to cultivate that motivation that long term motivate we call it body cheated the awakening, mind yeah the mind that aspires ah for full awakening, so that we can really be of the greatest and most effective benefit there's shall I said that motivation right when I wake up in the morning and then at the monastery right? If we have Little things on our bathroom window,
so instead of zero, or how do I look? But, ah, you know just certain sayings from some of teachers to remind us of, how we want to be that your bathroom there were just having a shaved had help As you know, I think that your hair, now oh yeah, You don't look into it. You just look in the mirror. Maybe when you're brushing your teeth tat, you don't have to worry about hair yeah, yeah I've heard you'll Brunner describe that Haven't vanities went away when he shaved his head, yeah yeah, really I mean I've had a shaved had now for forty two years outwits this kind of how it is the term. Yes, very nice and people recognize me when they put me up with the Erika why the robes help yeah agents Arabs in the head, the
The petty vanities are still there. We have. I didn't have to be truthful, yeah, there's a lot of condition in that direction. So would I notice them arising, then I think of an aspect of the buddhist teachings that helps me counteract that. Ok, so, if I all of a sudden, you know, I just turned sixty nine, like is beginning to dawn on me, that other people see me as an old Purse did not to inflame you're revalued, but you don't look like your sixty nine o k, I don't feel like I'm sixteen, I you know I I feel like yeah, either some eggs
Pangs coming knew no, that stuff is happening, but ah you know, I think other people may see me that way, but I don't feel tat way and I dont have to put myself into a pigeon hole of thinking. Oh, I have to act like I'm. Sixteen, cause. I actually feel you know, and this is a delusion like I have a long time to live we're getting on dot dot me No, you don't yeah, you don't. this machine is gonna. You know it a break. And see, have to be prepared for that. So if I seek some kind of petty vanity like that coming and then I think ok, as I age. How do I wanna be? I will
How be a nice old purse. I wanna be a gracious easy to get along with purse? You know I don't want to complain. absolutely do not want to be better, and I do not want to carry any grudges against anybody yeah. And I certainly don't wanna care about how I look because you know what is the matter. I When you are dangerous, tough care, he found out you look your game, isn't on yeah. You know still the thought? How do I look you know that hey now nobody's gonna be attracted to you because of how you look at so you know yeah, you shake your head. Why? Because If I'm gonna have friends, I want them to see
in beauty? I dont want them to see external beauty cause. If people like you for external beauty- it's not, alas long is it. yeah. If you cultivate internal beauty, then that keeps building and building and building, and then the people that your close you know, it's genuine friendship, yeah yeah, I can see. I can see how that would be to use a loaded word, attractive, yeah, How did you how and why did? Did you decide to take what seemed to be a pretty big step, which is to become a nun? Yes if you had asked me that when I was younger I would have told them That a nun was the first thing I would ever be. You know it was not in my in my framework
I had a lot of spiritual questions bud the inner being a nun. I grew up jewish showed you know, catholic nuns stuff like that. That was in that was anything familiar to to me at all. I I was always wondering what purpose my life. and as a kid going around asking different spiritual leaders and religious people, and none of them could give me an answer that made sense to me. Now, the at did they make sense to other people and that's good. It benefits them, but it didn't make any sense to me. Ah, the show, then I did what most people did in the sixtys in her.
seven days and I went into education as her Kirk. I figured that I added a feeling that part of my life, the purpose my life had to do with benefiting others. You know so I thought education so good waited do we should I should just to grow. people geographically, this is all playing out in LOS Angeles, yeah yeah, you grew up there. What do you see allay yeah? They went into teaching in the public, schools and yeah my first job was in the inner city, schools and and so on, pod form, but a year and a half and then there was a summer vacation a thing to do an ice. a flyer about a meditation course. This was one thousand nine hundred and seventy five and it was taught by to Tibetan lamas, and I said, okay, let's go so. I went and
what what about it made it yet well First of all, one of the first things they said. Was you don't believe, anything we say: you're intelligent, you think for yourself. You make up your own mind. I said that's good. Now I listen cuz. I was tired of people telling me the truth with a capital t, and these people are like no will just you can believe it or not. You check it out, so I did and one of the the things that real. There are several things that really touched me. One of them was this voting, but motivation, and now because. I thought I wish a really good purse, but when I started looking at work I did the things I did and I start
it being honest with myself. I realize you know I was pretty self and just lookin out for myself. And yet sort interrupted, and yet you had the sense your life was to be of benefit and you were teaching in inner city schools that doesn't sound like a case of overweening selfishness to me you know you can be a mixture of many different things you can have dude I mean. We we have passed, One day were angry. The next day were loving. yeah. One day were greedy. The next day we are. We are a mass of contradictory mental states, So that's what I started to see- and I had my the standard, but I most
he applied them to other people. And they shouldn't lie and they shouldn't cheat and they shouldn't they should. But if I lie there was purpose to add. It was to prevent heard. Somebody you see actually, of course, is to cover up something I did that I dont want somebody know about because they'll be angry, but I couched in will I'm doing it for their benefit. is garbage, so I started really looking. My mind and seeing how my mind, operated and seen the contradictions in my own ethical standards.
And said they, I better do something about this. I really need to do something because I don't want to continue to be the kind of person. And then, of course, when the teachers started. Speaking about generating, love and compassion, Buddhists, dial for all living beings and being of benefit to all living beings. I thought my office has really got us for. Like to do, of course, takes eons and ends and eons, but and I'm not gonna accomplish it- you know by Tuesday, but. I've myself and others, and ask and extend over many lifetimes and so having that.
You know, because I know the direction I'm going in and the long term is something this kind of benefits myself and others and ask and extend over many lifetimes and so having that kind of motivation a by product That is when you hit bumps in the road and your own life. They are not so big because your focused on your long term goal yeah. It's like the most renewable fuels, yeah it burns clean definitely yeah. It's it's it's weird, because I think, a lot about how to frame compassion or concern for friendliness toward other people. Fresh way in the writing of this book. Then I'm doing in and its silence. like the ultimate lifehack.
And it's also annoyingly obvious- and annoyingly just annoying to be told this get out of your own had in some ways and care about other people, because we were told that would often that did the messages having to do with compassion or delivered. Pretty way, and so we don't. We don't like it and yet I completely as sitting here with you, I'm thinking. Ok, if I could refrain all my motivations in terms of benefiting others. Then every time I see humble that wouldn't take it so personally or Caroline exactly exactly cause. You know where you're going in the long term is someplace worthwhile and you expect to stumble you now, an inspector consider as and and then when they come. You on
this is one of the things that really appealed needed in Buddhist, especially in that batten, tradition about thought. Training is there's ways to transform what we usually consider as bad situations into something that helps you on the path to wakening, for example, through ample okay. This is one that I practice quite a bit or none of us like getting criticized. Yeah we hate getting criticized, we get angry, we get hurt, we get fence. If we get aggressive, we get resentful. You know it's like how dare you criticised me? I don't have any fault, and even if I do you're, not supposed notice, ok, but hey, we get criticise down my.
I look at my twitter feed everyday I dont have twitter is the best way not to have to listen to that. So you know we get criticized all the time. So one way to flip the situation, what I do What if I say? Oh, it's very good. I criticized because sometimes I get kind of arrogant and full of myself and I think I'm better than other people and hear somebody else tearing me down, and that is actually good for me because, as a spiritual practitioner, being arrogant does not fit. You know arrogance is one of those afflictions. That's keeping me in the cycle, and that makes me harm others. So here somebody it.
Shaking down my arrogance and pulling me out of it, so that's good hey, it hurts my feelings, but that's ok. I can survive some hurt feelings and you know it's good that I bring my health or somebody else helps bring me down a few notches stages. Moreover,. Precision is on the way after this better help us licensed professional councillors specialised in a wide array of issues like depression, anxiety and grief conduct with their profession. Counselor and a safe private online environment, it's a truly affordable option and listeners can get ten percent off your first month by going to better help dot com, slash happier fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with the counselor. You'll love, clearly. These teams
spoke to you and as you relate them, they speak to me too, so much so that even before I walked in this room, I ve been spending a lot of time, thinking about the cultivation of compassion, a book about it been trying trying to lies in my life had set her etc and I'm a bit of a tough case of us admit: deafened beginning and yet I am not tempted to shave my head, give up my possessions and never have sex and yet you did How did you decide to make that leap? Oh ok, Ah- did today we dedicate my life to this. I thought, if I'm gonna, do it, I'm gonna do it. So that's one factor another was I realized I was married when I met the darn, no kids. Married, very nice man, happily married yeah, happily married very nice man, ah
I had good work. You know I was everything was going well and in worldly says everything was fine, and- and why did I do this business over? There was the question I don't want to go back to your grasp. Why did I do this? Because I knew that I couldn't continue in that life situation in practice. Well, my attachment was too strong. You couldn't keep doing this meditate and practice Buddhism. up to par because your attachment to the things in the world, including your husband, your career, whatever paintings you put up on the wall, etc, were too strong to do it. The way you want did you write this situation? Was too yeah? There too?
many things for me to grasp out with attachment to many things. I got angry at yeah disable the rest of us. Can we mean we can practice up to know? No, until talking about myself as an individual and I'm to say that everybody should, you know, go down to the barbershop yeah not saying that I talking about my own inner experience, okay and so when I was honest with myself. I knew you know. I want to do this whole heartedly and I just don't have the capability to do it in this situation, oh, I thought. Ok, I'm gonna ordain others go over with you're nice husband will. He became a Buddhist, he had become a Buddhist too and he understood-
course he didn't like it at all, but he was incredibly kind and I am grateful to him for to this day because he did not kill trip me. He did not try and hold me back. He understood the reasons why I was doing this, even though there was something that was painful for him and I'm a grateful. You don't touch me yeah, we're still in touch. My mom introduced him to another woman. There, happily married with three kids expect right now. It's a crazy, is still very thank yous being a jewish moment. Somebody else's behalf, yet because every she loved him she thirty great an eye, I was there the one who was messing everything I urge you feel that way oh she's, like a raw, my family speak to me for a long time. This was in the seventies
So nobody knew the Dalai Lama then ass, her they thought I joined oh, you know you're going off to India to live in a place where they don't even have flush toy lets. You know, but if we do that to deserve this, so it was, it was very difficult for them and you were hanging around with the Dalai Lama at this time- I know you still your you: u collaborate with them
to this day, but how did you come into his or written the seventy? Ah I attended his teachings, but I didn't have the personal connection with him at that time. That happened later sometime in the eighties. You know cause you gotta his holiness teachings this thousands of people, so he became one of my teachings, but teachers, but my other. The principal teachers, hybrid Leyden, didn't have at that time. Thousands disciple, so you know for other things- have relied on other teachers. So I met his holiness at that time. But then I didn't get to know him personally and for a few years or women treated well in the Tibetan Buddhism she made him face. She's make Boniface, I suppose, to be polite of its decisions.
sorry about that as an individual, with my teeth, by and large. I was treated very well and I wish respected for my intelligence, not because I'm very intelligent but respected in the way that you respect any living. Being you know for therein Elegant and as westerners we had the same education for the women and men, a cash that part publish equal. I lived in the tibetan community for long I'm, an nuns are not treat treated equal to the monks and actually there either
In many ways the lay women have more status than the nuns. Yeah, because a lay women do business. You know I mean they run now, they're home they do business, they operate the stores and and so on and arms, Allah, the nuns when I went there in the seven days were now the situation for the tibetan nuns is much better. Do this ominous kindness, really it's his holiness that really started to change things, but still it's not a good as a kind of lack of hypocrisy, because these guys hold themselves up as the beacons of compassion on planet earth and they weren't comply applying it Omni directly in this life. That is very interesting to me is how sometimes use see because we grew up in America were at least
we were told everybody's equal of course. You live in american society. There's no equality here will look just look at the pay gap. Yeah the pay gap, racism. now, you're talking about men and women, but yet row Yang into racism cry you know and end the pay gap with men and women, of course, but, as you know, in the Tibetans situation, ah, you know you kind of grow up just its unspoken that women are not dish, intelligence, the man I had a friend who study at the Dialectic school, a male friend studies as the dialectic school and I'm sorry. And the teacher one day he was telling me ah ass, you know: do you think
Women are equal to men and he told me all the tibetan monks in the class who are young one said know that he was the only one who said yes, so is part of that culture is quite patriarchal an it's it's in certain aspects of Buddhism as well. I dont think the Buddha himself was patriarchal, but in the system, because religion is influenced by culture. Then you have things coming in sometimes to the scriptures Gilbert didn't notice that mother have to convince him too. ordain women, and yet that's the way the story goes. Yeah. But I wonder if the story
Oh that way, in order to convince man that women are capable of maintaining awakening, because at that I am of the Buddha the women weren't even allowed out of the house. You are under the control first of your father, then your husband, then your son, ok, to give birth to this little guy changes, divers and then do it. He says yeah and in many ways that culture is still there you're angry. Look at other countries in the world, it I mean it's like that and not buddhist countries, but you know countries of other religions, too. I mean look, look at American, the nineteenth 1950s. Yeah my mom was a brilliant woman. She could, she could have been lawyer, like woe, just housewife.
yeah, because women just didn't have careers at that time. So you know this is gets into the culture and then people don't even notice it. His holiness is aware of it, but but most of of them are- and you know what's really shocking- is the western monks of all people. I would expect of western monks too, do not be discriminatory against women, but there's that with them too, very surprising and show it's not. You know it's not. It comes out and many subtle kind of ways
and many not so subtle ways to yeah. So let me ask another question: as ever: tasted compassion and gender Ok, you use the term before nice. You were talking about your ass break. to be a nice older person yeah, I did not you got the wrong way. But ok, I think I like that. I don't wanna be grumpy old purse, fair enough I took it and I think in the Spirit in which you intended it. However, I've spoken do enough: women, bear to one have one female colleagues and friends, a lot of women now, but the issue of compassion and nice. be provocative term manoeuvres of the way the culture sends messages yeah, that women should be nice, meaning shut up yeah. What's your view all everything I just said. I think it's true and then how should then, how sure that women.
View niceness embedded in given this context. I think nice for me now means polite cooperative, not being obnoxious. yeah it doesnt mean things Susie cream Cheese and and running and getting all the men coffee in the unknown. To me, that's what not the meaning of nice, mean nice means I mean look at our civil discourse in this country right now it is not nice, it is horrible and as detrimental and its harmful and to me speaking politely speaking kindly you know being cooperative one. You can that's what I mean by nice or, like a fierce noiseless, you can be fierce, there's a fierce compassion that I really believe in
And there's a truthful kind of nice us right, you can communicate clearly without being impolite. You can compare cruel their ways to do all this, without falling into the trap of doing what the culture is. Implicitly telling you ride and becoming like the people that you objective guest. You know like it for woman objects against all these men there so aggressive in their show this in their show that an EU tryin imitate them, because you think that's the only way you can do it in order to to get heard and- and I think there's many there's different ways to get hurt and there's different kinds of dignity to have. You know that we don't have to be in somebody's face all the time to get hurt,
Mrs go back to this issue of of motivation, which I'm so interested in I've just ask a question from a truly selfish standpoint, which may spoil the whole question, so I just think about using used this word the peat purity of motivation and I think about it, the in my own life. So I am, I have a career, television news I have this podcast. I have a meditation app. I write and books, so I want of these things to be successful. If I were- or two if it was passed but if it were possible for me to really work on my motivation so that I was, you know much much much much more oriented towards benefiting other people I myself would, I do think you would hinder my ability to reach people in the end in words, some of that selfishness,
absolutely not and would not into your ability, absolutely not in fact, I think, when, when you have a sincere good motivation, people take what you say seriously when they know that you're there to make a buck. Just like everybody else who wants to make a buck, so the authorities I made and of making more bucks, but I wouldn't care so much about the bucks. Well, you my volume yeah you may or may not make a lot of bucks. That's not your aim. I write books all the royalties I gotta get, which are not a lot. No! You can't live off of that, but all the royalties go into a special account I only use for dharmu purposes and being generous, Ruby, you're, none yeah, and
a guy who a kid in private school and you know I live in Manhattan- have to pay my rent. Should I should I not care about money? tell you what you shouldn't shouldn't. Do that's not my business location. Should I'm not care up up up. I'm gonna get you up You need money, I mean. If you lay person, you need money Yeah, you know you need to eat. You need to do all that stuff. Ok, but there's! motivations for making money, and there are different ways of handling your money. You know you could buy your kid everything your kid wants, or you could teachers child how to deal with frustration of not getting what they want and you can teach her child how to be generous and how to give things.
so there's different ways to use your money and also You don't your self esteem, depend on the amount of money you make. I met one, And came to the abbey to study with us. He was a former army ranger and he told me that He saw his marriage that he was loved me. When he made more money and of course that hurt him a lot show. If you know, if money isn't you're currency for being a successful person. Then you get money. You dont get money. You know you you make do with what you have it's. Ok, you don't need that.
Best of everything. You don't need the most modern of everything, and sometimes it's really freeing like I dont, have a smartphone may be the only person in the country yeah and you seem fine. I'm fine. Can you leave it s actually come. You know an aunt I manage in my life and I don't have a smartphone I don't wanna be available. Twenty four seven. I dont want to be attached to that thing. For us. freeing you figure out what you really need and what you don't want right to what I was going to ask you about. Cuz. I question you know. I talked to a lot of bullets in my personal life in him and my public life. I talk to a lot of buddhist teachers.
And the question has been put to me, often as one that I might mall it for myself is what is enough. How much is enough and I wonder if you have any thoughts on how we can go about considering. That There is never enough there. Whatever you have it's, never enough, we don't have enough love, we don't have enough money, we don't have enough appreciation, we I have enough thing. There is never enough. yeah when you live your life from that point of view from just being concerned? With only things of this life, There is never enough show my foot a Sophia's, you make what you have enough, then you have enough snuff.
And so if my revenue go, our family revenue goes down and we have to make up what you said: faces maybe per challenge, school or you know- maybe don't have take out door whatever it's just like that's enough still with my family? That's ok do need take out every night. Now I dont pulling ran yeah, but did you know guess yeah, but just all those things I had one student and she had two or three kids and was unemployed at that time, and one night really didn't have enough money for dinner for the it's so they had a picnic at home sitting round the fireplace
You know making BB engage sandwiches and she said they had a great time because they made it like the special thing of you now having a picnic with baby engine and It was a wonderful opportunity in a much better than going out to some fancy restaurant with her kids, I mean you'd, be surprised, sometimes what I'm the creativity that can come out and the connection among peoples that can come out when you don't have all this stuff, because it look at her right now. What people do you spend your time on the phone making appointments to meet your friends, you go out for coffee or tea or whatever, with your friends.
What's the first thing: everybody does they take out their corn and put it in front of them. Show everybody sitting there with their phone, which they keep checking every few minutes. They don't really communicate with the people there with, because there too busy look their phone and even if they dont have any messages they kind of make like they had messages, because If you don't have it, then you don't have a life in your nobody, but you're not getting enough attention yeah as so here it is. You made effort to be together this group of people that you like and then you're, not really with them.
I'll looking at your phones, you don't look people in the eye, you don't really connect with them, you're all about creating a face and an image not all about it. But you know a good amount of time and creating a face and Amy instead of really listening people. So you know what die what I never heard of anybody at the time of death saying I should have worked more overtime. I should have done: a better job on Instagram yeah. I should have made more money. You know what is the thing the people regret when they die. I have spent a reasonable amount of time or people who are dying. I think they were great things
to do their relationships exactly the summer yeah because of getting angry because of having an unkind, old, mind and saying and doing things that harmed others, that's what people. So if we spend it time working on ourselves. We dont do those things there our life is so much peaceful. One were alive and when we die no regrets and again, you are of the belief that this whole approach to life is doable for lay people out as well. They say have you seen it? I think it's harder for lay people that is they say it's doable anyway. It's not a dual Buller Undutiful thing everything is is universal. flights which, on our offer spiritual practice,
it's not on and off spectrum is a spectrum yeah sure we all do what were capable of doing, and that is good enough. That's one of the things we have had our mirror at the Abbe. One of my teachers called everybody dear, and one of the things he said to us so often was good enough dear who you are good enough. What you have is good enough. What you do is good You know and that's an antidote to that mind. You know that is that high achiever pushing I've got you know these somebody more than I am, and you know that kind of life site. It's good enough. Now, let's connect with people before let you go.
I didn't this conversation. I had a kind of plan going in the night it out, but you you did write a book called the compassionate yes, I'm one of the things that I struggle a lot with, from being honest, is- and I have talked about it on the show before overhead More getting in my head about allegedly overeating. So what are you? but I think I think I'm not alone, and also maybe- and another thing on here is maybe not being so mindful while eating So? That's it! That's a lot to throw at you. But what do I know you're a whole book about it, so you you have a lot to say I feel guilty just throwing it. out there in an open ended way, but can
just free associate on what I just said. Ok, I'm one thing that that that is emphasised in the book is due to put are eating and proper context. Ok, and so I talk about five contemplations before we eat and and the first one is just thinking about all the causes and conditions that came into our receiving our food tat show item monastic. I mean I because the generosity of other people, we don't buy any food. Where I live. We only the food. The people give us even fewer lay people. You were what person you work for a living
You know. I don't think this is my money, I'm spending it because your money came from other people. They gave it to you yeah your food. Where did it come from boy? There's a lot of people who worked to get our food yeah and if you really think nowadays, Yeah, my friend one of our nudges, is from Germany. She said that one one story in Germany: they took out all the food that was not made in Germany and the store had very little left in it. Can you imagine in this country if we took out everything that wasn't grown in another country or in our stores? If we took out everything that was made in
the country. So we think I mean how many people, in what kind of conditions worked and were eating, offer their labour and how kind? There is somebody could table, they didn't grow the food just for me. They did it to make money. That's ok! The bottom line is, if they didn't do it, I wouldn't eat yeah. So when you eat you feel connected to so many others beings cannot connect slow you down, while you're eating another slow down a positive y yeah yeah. Can you think about that? and then and then you think about or what what is the state of mind, I'm eating and What kind of state of mind do I have during the day, if I'm accepting it,
people's generosity. I want to improve the state of my mind, and why am I eating I'm eating to nurse my body that purpose. and why do I want to nourish my body? It's not for strength, ten good looks it so that I can practise the path and so that I can. I do activities that are beneficial for other people. Show I'm keeping my body of law I've, but not just because you now I why I'm here Barton, I one look good, but because I have some Burnett potential to use my life and a beneficial way for others whose goes back to motivation, yeah yeah. Definitely I feel like there's a lot more to say on this. I have almost regret, bring it up because it we should probably make it the subject of another podcast, maybe
Unfortunately, I have not go to lunch, so I don't want to. I want to tell you also were coming to the end of our allotted time anyway, but both as as we close Can you do something that may run against your training, which is being self promotional and find out you tell us the names of some of your books and where can we learn more about you and your abbe, etc, etc? ah the abbeys name is sure faster Abbe S are a key, a S tea. I is the name of a place and in India, where the Buddha spent twenty five summer retreats. So it's in Newport Washington, the people can look at four vastly org and find us? I have my own website, Tipton Virgin DOT. Our guide better. Spell that t a
You be tee e n C, Eau De R, o n that org and and we also have a Youtube channel. That's Czerlaski Abbe asked of us too heavy Youtube Channel. We have lots material online audio, video written staff in terms of books. You want me to name maybe now three three ok sure, three, the that I did myself cause I've edited the co authored things with other people, but aid to myself open her clear mind Buddhism for beginners Taming the mind working with anger, that's one people may like that for you. As far as I know, you told me, you told me to promote myself. I want
I did more than you good we. So there there's. The compassionate kitchen is the one on food and then there's another one called a wake, and every day that is, I have short passages for every day of the year that you can kind of read and give you something to contemplate during the day. and then you can. I put myself smart know that, turn on promoting his holiness, because doing a series of books together and so is published by wisdom publication. So there's four books out in the series so far are approaching the Buddhist PATH Foundation of Buddhist per.
Acta is some sort of honour and Buddha Nature following in the buddhist footsteps, and the next volume is impressive, great compassion, so your honor either one of your writing, patch I've got to get out of this conversation reminded gala. Everybody will so. Thank you so much. I hope so and then also for compassion of people are interested. I did it can a book with a psychology professor yeah and at age Stern Washington. Firstly, wrestle costs and oh we wrote a book called budget, be colored living there.
published in UK and one title living with an open heart and in the states was published as an open, hearted life and its a book about passion from a psychological viewpoint, Anna Buddhist, viewpoint, but it's written secular as in a secular way. In other words, burden, there's no talk about rebirth or anything in it are your gun for sure, My pleasure, I wanna, get a lot of that. Yet the two children really appreciate her come in. Let's do some voice mouse, here's number one! I then this is Adam. I've been meditating for about three years and I understand the concept of trying to be present and in the moment and when my mind wanderers, I bring my attention back to the object of focus and begin again I'll, typically meditate, for about ten to fifteen minutes. day, but while a maniac I'm doing
Fine. However, once the chimes found- and I happen to resume my day- I often forget to be mindful were present during the course of the day. No. My practice has helped me realise that pause between a reaction and respond. So I know it's working, but do you have any suggestions for how to remember to be mindful during the course of the day and find myself looking back in the day and wondering if I was present at all thanks for your guidance on this one great question. I struggle with us a lot shall answer just from a personal perspective. A couple of that one is here that the conversation we just heard was with us in children, The idea that we could set an intention in the beginning the day- and you know me The intention is that can I be is my fullest possible today. I think that could be full and again I know it sounds a little. You know the idea. I just heard my in my own in her
go chamber this a little bit of resistance, the idea of setting an attention it. It sounds a little. I don't know, I don't know, but it anyway, I still think we know the first thing you wait you wake up in the morning or azure? Maybe don't rice and has done remember what am I either one. My alarm goes off for my eyes opened in the mornings, and has I dont remember to do this, but maybe you know I catch myself in the first ten fifteen minutes a day like I are, what's my wits, my little goal today. Maybe it's the my marvels possible to wake up as much as possible. Another might be just to be. We know not a jerk, which is something I continued but with so I'm entreat by that the thing is a universal. I think that that, in your answer in your question, I hear already that you're making a lot of progress first, while you're doing the daily practice and fact that your noticing yourself on auto
a letter being mindless throughout the rest of the day is a form of mindfulness. That noticing is the waking up. I think which I suspect what may be happening is something off for me, which is I notice, and then I saw flagellate, and so I go back right into mindless but you can notice, and maybe reflexively you'll have a little self modulation that you can't really do much about. But then you can on a train yourself over time to like oh yeah, I wait, I'm I'm actually awake. This is an opportunity and I I just find that that this is a skill that develops on its own, just as you have the desire to do it like that. To me, I far as I can tell the waking up. It's kind of amidst a mysterious process. I quite understand how it happens, but you can you can increase the odds that you will wake up by having your daily practice, and then having the intention to do it the kind of celebrating when you notice it is you can
a disincentive eyes yourself to wake up. If every time you do it, you're punishing yourself by launching into a story of what, herbal meditate or you are whatever than the mind what what what what once does the mind have to wake up. So I guess it's, it's a long long way of saying keep doing what you're doing and I suspect, you'll find yourself waking up with more and more frequency, and you know there may be a little hacks you can put through throughout your day. I remember when I was training to be a hospice volunteer. One of my teachers Jodo, who is, if you scroll back in his pocket feed he was on he and his husband grownup up before they get married ass. She was they were on this past way way way way back in the beginning, his has been seems cushion and what I was saying that one little thing he has every time you walk into a new room where a patient was, he would just touch the outline of the door. What's the name of that
anyways whose crossing the threshold he would touch the door and that would just He was a habit. He created that allowed him. There was a trigger to him to wake up and so little. This is gonna sound, a little superficial, but little hacks like that can also be nice to play with Anyway, I think you're on the right road to appreciate the question and keep it up. Let's do
I was now. Nor do I damn my name is go when I been doing meditation after about six months very enjoyable, I find myself using the meditation Wyndham, I'm driving or walking, and I'm just getting ready. I don't find myself during the actual sitting in a meditation I should say on. The cushion is something I should strive for getting quite a bit out of the euro, actively part of meditation and focusing and following the app, but I'm wondering about getting for complete by getting
a cushion. Then for your response I wanted. I thought it would be good to include these two questions together together in many ways, obviously a related first, all thank you for being a subscriber to the after a lot of us who work really hard to make that an excellent, and so it is gratifying to hear that you're gettin some out of it, I'm loath to be too. You know dogmatic, and you know to lecture you about the right way to do this. The fact that you her tuning in and using the meditations to bring mindfulness in your daily life. I think, is excellent. so what I say I say kind of with medium term. oh conviction or I would just to hold whatever I'm saying lightly, which is, I really do think
the formal, seated or walking practice actually there, as you may know, for formal, put unquote formal ways to practise the word formulas a little heavy, but that's the best I can do right now, but therefore formal ways to practice. One is seated. Neither is walking lying down or standing and that doing one thing, in other words bringing my we just meditation or my phone this practice as opposed to use yet while you're walking you walk into work rather commuting, walking or driving, or many of the other ways that we ve got all these meditations on the apt to integrated into parts of your day, which I cut consider should have on the go or free range meditation. I think the formal meditation boosts your ability to do the informal meditation
and it can create a really self reliant reinforcing cycle. So this links back, of course, to the first question: how how can you bring mindfulness too as much of the day as possible, because that would both of you? You got her asking for essentially and to me, and just in my experience and of one here, the halving the formal practice really fuels my ability to be mindful of the rest of the time to far too weak up and then really practicing, not only prick crate the conditions were more likely to wake up, but also getting my. point myself out of the nose. I've when, I notice that I I've been mindless for awhile and I'm tempted to be myself up, which, as discussed, can create a kind of a sort of energy
lack of incentives to wake up at all just to notice. Oh yeah, ok, so I just woke up: I've been mindless for awhile, maybe a couple hours and but here I am online at the grocery store with a bunch of Bin, and as in my hand and- and I know. That I've I've been alongside a cascade of my endlessness, and then I noticed quickly. Even out of my control is there to be myself up and then a kind of kicks in up another. I could drop all that and just be with where I am right now and so just over time. I've just fine. I just find that this, these two practices, the core, unquote, formal practice, interwoven with the design, an intention to- and I know desires, alluded but the intention to be as my fullest possible throughout the rest of my day, it just its skill that you'd I'll up over time and you're. Never legs. I don't know anybody whose perfect at it, but you can, you can keep getting better and I think the results,
incredibly meaningful actions and young the great meditation teachers on the show is, has talked about the fact that when you're more mindful it expands your life, not it not yours, life expectancy. You may live the same amount of time chronology, but you will be awake for more of it more of it and in that way. You you get more life. Ok, I promise had enough, I thank you for those actually questions. Anybody else who wants to leave us a voicemail. Our number is six hundred and forty six, eight hundred and eighty three eight hundred and thirty, two six thousand six hundred and forty six, eight hundred and eighty three eight thousand three hundred and twenty six will put that number in the show notes: big tanks, but he who makes this podcast possible. There are alot of folks who worked really hard on it. Just to name a few named Rank Kessler, Samuel Johnson, grace. Let me stay Lauren hearts, activity of a hundred and Brittany whose working the boards. The report is right now, big thanks to all of you will be back next Wednesday. With the new show
there's, not a person in Amerika who hasn't been impact it in some way by the corona I was pandemic, but it every community. There are pockets of people who were soon
every day this is my Monday last day of the cylinder stretch, photos from one about these or America's essential workers, the people who are keeping moving. I turn into a home school mom and now in a new programmes from ABC News you gonna hear from damage. Was she went back to my office on cybercrime because he is not here and making sure that our community hostility smiled faintly Lorraine? This is the essential inside the from the emergency room, the police cruiser to the czech outline. You hear what this pandemic sounds like the people putting themselves norms which is always a risk. Your brain is home to re. Kids are my husband or my appearance listened to the essentials inside the curve on Apple podcast, river podcast. Him.