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#219: Making and Breaking Habits, Sanely | Kelly McGonigal

For as long as she can remember, Kelly McGonigal has felt motivated to understand the causes of pain and suffering and find ways to relieve them. This motivation led her to pursue a career in psychology and cultivate a meditation practice. In this episode Kelly talks about the types of meditation that have the biggest impact for her and how she integrates them into her daily life. She also discusses her new book, "The Joy of Movement," which she hopes will help change the negative perceptions some have about exercise. Calling her book a love letter to movement and human nature, she believes movement can help us access the positive states of bliss, joy, hope, and connection. She also offers practical tips for building healthy habits. Check out the new Ten Percent Happier course on healthy habits with Kelly McGonigal: http://www.tenpercent.com/habits (App: https://10percenthappier.app.link/gAd07mXoo2) Plugzone: - Website: http://kellymcgonigal.com/ - "The Joy of Movement": https://www.amazon.com/Joy-Movement-exercise-happiness-connection-ebook/dp/B07Q4LY2CV - Previous Books: http://kellymcgonigal.com/books - TED Talk: How to make stress your friend https://www.ted.com/talks/kelly_mcgonigal_how_to_make_stress_your_friend?language=en - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kellymariemcgonigal/ - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kellymcgonigalauthor/ Books mentioned: "Fearless Heart": https://www.amazon.com/Fearless-Heart-Courage-Compassionate-Transform/dp/1101982926 Podcast Insiders Feedback Group: https://10percenthappier.typeform.com/to/vHz4q4 Have a question for Dan? Leave us a voicemail: 646-883-8326
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
For maybe see the ten percent happier vodka in her the guy's a we are launching into the new year, with a big big series on how to make and break habits without breaking your spirit, so many of US approach nears resolutions. Specifically, the end behavior change generally? In a way that involves a lot of shame and self regulation, and we can help you rethink that not only in broad strokes but also in very specific ways So in the series we're gonna talk about exercise, diet, sleep. I, of course, meditation o with people who
almost all of them. Almost all the experts we recruited for this have deep meditation expertise that they're bringing to the table. So that brings us to our first guest Kelly, Gotta go, who is quite impressive: she's a health psychologist, whose taught at Stanford University should written best selling books and has won the most popular TED talks, which is called how to make stress your friend, her books include the willpower instinct. The upside of stress, and she got a new book called the joy of movement which is by exercise and so worded hugged your heard not only about how to get your exercise game improve in a way that will actually succeed and without evolve. having you beating yourself up along the way, but also to talk about how to scale that habits generally.
ITALY, is the star of a brand new course that just went up on the ten percent happier app, which is about how to warm healthy habits without, as I said before, in your own button away, that's egregious and over the course of the car, you get to watch Kelly work with five ten percent happier app subscribers, each of whom, as a specific, habit there looking to make or break and her way of doing. This is really really trusting and very compelling to me personally, actually so here we go with Kelly Wiess. We we talk about exercise, we talk about habits, but we start with her meditation practice. Nice assyrian, ass, nice to see you I wanna before we dive into the book, just get us, give people a sense of who you are, and I your work is deeply influenced by
Kaji and marvelous slush Buddhism meditation? I wanted. You can't get a sense of how you got interested in the stuff and where it took you. And you have told me the pass it there were, that part of your interests, at least in the the mind. Works was a result of physical pain from your childhood. Can you say for as long as I can remember going back to when I was maybe seven or eight, I had daily headaches and other kinds of pan. where does it seem like my experience of life, was one where my body produced pain every day with, really knowing why, without being able to get rid of it through the sort of normal ways, you try to treat pan, and so No, that got me. It did a couple of things. One is I feel, like I missed whatever part of life. It is where you can avoid thinking about suffering I feel that was just a part of my mind said from very early on being away
of my own pan and the pain of others and somehow being motivated to relieve that onto that. Well, I think that pointed me to both psychology and the contemplative practices the four meditation I mean it's such a strange origin story, my mother, who was a cop, from teacher had a friend who I was like a new age person and choose to give me her Cosette, tapes and books that were so related to meditation, like that. And so when. I was a little kid up in my room and nobody else was they're paying these Cosette tapes and learning. I don't even know what traditions we're from but practicing adaptation ya like fourth grade fifth grade and on toys- I figure- something in me that was drawn to both of those fields, because both of them have this deep interest in understanding the causes of suffering and how to relieve suffering. Can you just give you said when you started formerly meditating in what what form that took. Could question the first
the first place, I was able to show up to have a real teeth, or in a community was when I went to Stanford. Ah, I had read books by Shari Huber, who is, as an Americans and teacher, type of then that is very much focused on engaged, living and engaged compassion in the world, so using meditation practice and awareness practice to to really to live compassion and rather than to necessarily achieve some sort of inner peace or, it meant and am I'd, read some of her books and it turned out when I was at Stanford that she had a Palo Alto then send her, that I ended up living a few blocks from so that was the first place where I was able to have that sort of direct relationship with a teacher and a community. What kind of it back to devote your life. It's a funny there's. Nobody ever asked me about these things now say that.
The meditation that had the biggest impact on me at that time in my life was Tom Glenn, and actors known as the benefactor meditations. These are practices the benefactor practice, really interesting, because it asks you to think about the people in your life that your grateful to and imagine putting them on a list and sending them your gratitude and your life. Kindness, but the the act this exercise is to try to take people who might be on your neutral list and then people who are on your enemy list, people who have harmed you at the perceived have harmed you and find a way through compassion practice to move them onto the benefactor list. and I worked without practice when I was in graduate school, I'm studying psychology, and I remember the first time I won't say who was, but when there were two people in my life. When suddenly I realise with sincerity that I could view them, benefactor list. It was
It was almost like a miracle realizing how these practices can change your perception of life and change the store that you have, and there really was a it felt like a radical opening and then that Glenn practice, which is still my favorite meditation practice, is the practice of, recognizing suffering in the world and imagine that you can breathe it in as you have actually visualize Erasmus visualize, it yeah, you can do a lot of different ways, but you can t do it through misery you imagine, breathing it in You imagine allowing it to touch her heart and, through your connection, to come- ashen transforming it into something you want to offer the world like hope or courage or kindness. and I remember first line in this practice from her children- and it was, it was called. To all of the like the womb, new aging meditations I had been introduced to as a little
where was bred in the good stuff, breathe out the bad off as if, meditation practice, was about trying to make a call, For yourself I mean I remember from these old new engine meditations like imagine yourself in a pink bubble and its healing you- and this was so friend and our member from a children saying that this was a practice of courage and that was something because my own temperament leaned so strongly towards fear and pity I felt that this is. This is an amazing practice. I felt what it had to do with courage was about saying suffering in the world is real and you can't you can't protect yourself from it and, more importantly, it this practice requires. To acknowledge that this is someone's reality I fix how much of its people around the world. Thinking that, like
dont want to understand the reality of other people's lived experiences, including deep suffering, athletic tongue GLONASS? It's amazing practice where you have to drop that illusion, and- and so I am both of those practices, I came to announce a graduate student. They had a very big impact on me in that way effort for psychology yeah, that's it you. You were primed to be able to do this practice. because as a seven year old you realize suffering without their yeah. An here will write your head. I feel like my I had a temperament to toward empathy dinner to the point where, Some of my early childhood memories. I remember trying to rescue worms when it rained cause. I thought the worms were drowning, which I don't. Maybe they were they weren't not wanting to get on the bus to go to school, because I was trying to SK the worms theirs. Something in me that that like wanted to do that, but also was very easily overwhelmed and I feel like what meditation practices did for me.
Tumblr and also yoga, which is something that I was deepening my practice up around the same time that those practices they give you a strength so that if you have a natural tendency to want to relieve the suffering in the world, they give you so that you can keep your heart open and not feel completely overwhelmed by wanting to engage with us where's your practices like today, I'm pretty much wealth. So I have. I have practices that are due when I wake up and when I go to sleep that are really important for my values. So in the morning when morning practice is about bringing awareness to my intention for the day. and thinking about what I'm going to be doing that day and what I want to bring to that day and sometimes it all that are having a word like enthusiasm. Where is this take place just while you're someone, I won't even get out of bed. Ok with me
Do that? No matter what causes happening there been some crazy moments where had been like, ok, wait. It is needed That's ok. Now I can deal with Brent whenever someone asked puking in the hallway that his hat will now on the bed. Yet from at the hall hallway. His play has been trying to launch the cat off the bed. Yes, so that's the first, what is it? I had drill down the second, because it actually I've been thinking. You know I've had on the show up those Hopeton jumper. Yes, here he's so he's, one of my collaborators right. Did you re involved in the then the staggering this? Yes, Stamford am compassion Cultivation programme, ok, till we ve also another of your collaborators was was, was Emma. Second involve Vanessa. Emma she wasn't involved in. She was the science director for, though the research branch of I've, a centre for compassion ok, so she Emma's M has been really really like her alive respect. Her lot, dumped in GNP
was telling me. I was reading his book, which is really excellent book I think, is color a fearless higher fearless heart nine. I love that not like a loving heart of right wireless hired. I still have a problem. The word heart but anyway weakens dive. That's maybe her for me to shake my frat bonus anyway. The book is wonderful and he talks and I did it for a while. He talked about what kind of weakening of the morning in setting an intention for the day. Setting an intention is one of these phrases can sound very new agee and I don't know I a bit of an allergic reaction to even that phrase, and yet I notice that scattered in the morning and be motivation is so important and if you set them, evasion too. You know not be a jerk today or, as you said, the enthusiastic or its not just its now. just motivation. So one of the things that that the Zen teacher, sherry she were says often is the focus of your attention- determines the quality of your life. So I think of it not so much
It's it's simply your choosing. What to pay attention to and your choosing what you want to bring to, particularly when I did the practice something thing moments that think, have potential for meaning and joy and also moments, I think, have potential for four Strasser worry or conflict and so the intention is about its about being its clarity. It's about agency Oh, I am so I'm setting up who I want to be that day. I'm not like what I wish will happen. If that makes sense, is I hears what I'm going to do today, its here's? How I'm going to do today in itself like it's, pretty quick, you just can't oh yeah well now, because I've been doing it for I maybe this practice for at least fifteen years. I can remember when I started it, this is so much better than my morning. Practice used to be to drag me
twelve out of bed before coffee and sit down into my formal practice and actually as it turns out, that's not the best time for me to set aside into practice before I've had coffee. So I found this is actually a much better way for me to start today and how would we do it, The Ramblas you probably have to start by sending the intention before you go to sleep at night hit. Something is going to have to remind you to do it. When you wake up, it is possible for someone who looks at your phone first thing in the morning. Maybe you can send yourself a text message or something that you would see when you grab your phone. That's like hey put this down for a second and think about maybe word that describes what you want to bring to air what you want to experience today. Madam, I think it's a muscle that you strengthen you, so this sounds like a good, be super quick, you're lying in bed like art. Here's what's got on my docketed I can I be. Can I give my full attention? Yes, yes, I mean that,
great one or maybe today it will be giving people the benefit of the doubt. I mean you can experiment with so many things, and I found there are few that really that do have a big influence on the quality, and we know it today. I'm you myself, the better, it's ok, that's one of your breakfast is that evening for the evening progresses best. I love this practice so much as someone whose average insomnia, so it's I'm gonna go to sleep and fall asleep, something else ass, the then for a little while. So I do, I call my interdependence practice where I review the day and I think about everything I did and experience and who I came into contact with, and I imagine thanking them and thinking about why I am grateful that they were a part of that day.
You know some a check out person at the grocery store or somebody that I worked where their family members my partner, and I go through that- an eye it sam. It's like a loving kindness practice, but its rooted in memory and how I choose to remember the day, and I am a big fan of interdependence in general as meditation practice. It doesn't necessarily have to be that form, but we know from the psychology of it that when you shrink than a mindset of interdependent when you are willing to acknowledge we're all in this together and that other people contribute to your life, it's not you know you aren't the sole determinant of everything you experience and also that you play that role for others as well. It makes people more likely to ask for help when their struggling. It increases people sort of spontaneous feelings of hope and gratitude, so
I've been doing that practice for for just a couple of years that also in bed you hesitate his ancient you're, like you ever meditate sitting. Yes, I do, but I think the thing Most important show me the three most important practices in the third most important one is on the moment tongue Glenn. and that is on the movement of on the spot, if I with some one, and I am aware that there are- in some way, but it's not necessarily appropriate for me to give them a hog or have a com station about it to do tongue land for them. And that moment, or if I'm feeling worried about something to bring to mind people in the world who are dealing with that amplified if I'm worried about maybe some minor health issue not just bring to mind the people in the world right now we're dealing with the major health issue and do tumblr for them, and I find that that practice also is extremely six.
grimly helpful for me and managing just managing moment to moment life, and I dont know that any of these practices I'm a big believer in sitting down and learning the practices. But we know when I teach meditation, I always tell people you, you sit down and you practice things so that you have skills with your mind We are not convinced that those sit down sessions have as much a determinant on the quality of my life as the way that I found to integrate practices into my daily rituals. You do sit seated practice and also I view yoga as part of that practice, because they yoga that I practice involves breath, focus so that the main practice that I learned through then was counting the breath and the main yoga practice that I spent years cultivating also involves counting the breath ass. It was perfect. Synchrony will bring us right to this objective
You work. Yes, joy of movement, love letter to movement and exercise. Just what why did you want to write it? What's it about it's, a love letter to movement and to human nature, which I didn't know when I wrote it. It was going to turn out to be. I learned a lot about this. end of movement and why humans thrive. When we move- and I learned a lot from talking to people about their experiences with movement, that gave me a lot of hope about human nature as well, but I mean I I wanted to write this book for a couple of reasons. Why is that but I think, of meditation things we ve been talking about so far as helping me deal with suffering, but nothing produces sheer joy in my life as moving and moving to music,
I am, for example, taking a dance class war. Did this we would. I did this morning or or teaching a dance clause or taking a kickboxing class to an amazing soundtrack that makes me feel empowered or practicing yoga that the that the part me that experience is bliss, hope, joy connection, that sort of the empowered positive states I access that pass through movement and so on. right this book, because I've only ever written books and I really think about how to deal with the hard stuff you know stress, behavior change I've spent most of my public facing career. Helping people deal with things they wish. They didn't have to deal with my first, but was about chronic pain and I feel, like that's a big part. My personality like, let's just go to the pain, points and see what we can do with us, but in my own life I have always I mean going back to. When I was around the same age. I started having pan and I discuss jazz your size, because my mom brought home visa
I take from grass sales at she never did, but I did them. I discovered that this made me happy and rumours for, first of all, a leg. Warm areas are amazing. I dont didn't at home- that I didn't know sneakers this. We were not in exercising family. I don't know what I was I, like I remember taking my mom for this thong leotard. That was so inappropriate and I did not get it, but I do remember like like lusting after this leotard, with roses on it Adam the discount, apart. store and this by the way the suburban Philly, aye, aye and and and so I wanted to write this book because you I've been teaching fitness for twenty years. Before that I was using movement to experience, joy and I I just felt like it was time to to
share that with the world, in the way that I share it with my my local community and the best part of my days when I teach and exercise class, and I wanted to help change the conversation we have about movement, because so often we talk about exercise, it is number one is burning, calories losing weight which can actually kill the joy. That is possible. I mean, of course you do burn calories. but if that is, if that is your mind, set it screws, So many of them, like the natural things that you could harness in movement that bring you joy, just becomes a often a big distraction, weight loss heart attacks. We know that exercises so good for you that we forget how good it is, and I wanted to reintroduce into our conversation, because if you talk to me
who exercise regularly. They they often will tell you they dont. Do it because they're keeping track of how many calories they're burning their faces, light up? They tell you what they love when they tell you what it means to them, and those are the stories that, when I said that the book may me Jimmy hope about human nature, there's a stories people were telling about what what power lifting had meant to them. Or what- community that they found taking fitness classes meant to them where they learned about themselves. From going from being unable to walk a five k to running half marathons, when people talk about movement, they often become like the best version of themselves and by the way I'm really excited. I hope that's true for me too, and I feel like this writing. This book was an opportunity for me to also get to know that aspect of myself up just kidding you so many things you said are incredibly interesting. I wanna Jason down. but one thing you said about how the movement itself can produce joy
and yet there many of us exercise for reasons they're around. You know burning a certain amount of calories, her looking certain way I find, often there my exercise of thinking yesterday, did a forty five minutes been class on Palestine and the loved I loved the teacher and new because our aid, in but a lot of it was just really hard and I was kind of suffering a little bit, but I having done it more than I liked doing it so does that mean. I should pick a different form exercise it. I should have a different mindset while exercising what what what? How do you diagnose that I so I I don't know that our diagnose that too, it is ok to do things that are hard and be aware that their hard, while you're doing it and have sort of an industry, that is like. Why am I doing this? Is this? Is this herds? This is hard on. This is uncomfortable Suzie,
The common for a lot of things that are meaningful news for our life that also can produce joy sewn up, doesn't concern me that you could have that experience while doing something that is really physically hard. But I know Palatine They do try to structure the experience that you will feel really empowered for having done it, if I think, that's actually part of their part of the way they construct their whole program and product is to produce the feeling that you described that afterwards, you like, I did and I'm the kind of person who did that so maybe you're getting exactly the kind of joy you need from it while getting, but whatever the other no health benefits, I don't know that I would light up talking about your words that the? U yours home by how people light up talking about their exercise, I feel like there are. some forms of exercise. I've done that I would like to talk about it but there much easier than a forty five minutes been class, where I feel like being strangled at point. Okay, so that we should talk about how I you spend class by the way, because I it was like the worst exercise, experience my life when I started it
I'm sending. There's there can be value in that, but the thing you know, if you you're asking me seriously. How should I spend my exercise time? You know it comes down to what is the purpose of it in your life and it You are deriving the types of joy that I talk about, can action, meaning purpose. Personal growth. Self transcend and if you're getting that from other practices and other relationships and you're thinking of exercise as this is from my heart, maybe you just do the hardest thing. That works your heart and you feel good bout, it afterward, you mean lit actual hard, not yet here. Yes, I know that thing. That's putting in your chest that I'm it's ok, it doesn't have to exercise, doesn't have to play a particular role in every person's life. I'm interested in talking to the person who feels like there is actually something that is maybe missing, and that movement movement seems to help us access the joys at a really important to our humanity. Like social connection like a sense of mastery like
health transcendence prerogative, we exercise outdoors. So you know if we were going to diagnose your situation. You said there are movement forms I would light you up in. I I would ask you: is it worth doing that, because it light you are not sort of in exchange for something that's cardiovascular, difficult, so that we know you feel good about that, but because they would enhance her life, and I would like that's really. The focus I have is movement can enhance your life, I'm not primarily interested in making the thing you do for your health, more fun You can do something for your health, that's fine, but if you're looking to experience, you know a sense of maybe you re imagining what possible in your life. I know that their movement forms that can help you tap into that. You said you wanted to say something, but yes, okay, so one of the things I'm most proud of in my life is having overcome a fear flying that kept me off of airplanes for years and years and years and when I decided it was time to conquer it. I had had good reasons. I wanted to be
see my family more often, and I wanted to be able to take professional opportunities that require getting on a plane. And so I decided I didn't windows, two thousand and four me that I was going to start doing this, and I thought to myself: where do I whereby ever felt, like I feel on an airplane, claustrophobic true, at my heart is pounding. I hate every moment of it and I want to escape, and I can't leave that spinning class I took a few years ago. That's exactly how I felt in that car so I started going to cycling classes, no that I would hate it that I would find a miserable that I would stress, struggle to breathe that my heart would be pounding, and I would I would literally feels trap as I do on an airplane, and I said to myself: I am practicing being with that and not leaving the room, and I will teach myself how to do that. Through this experience and with so crazy at personal, it worked
and when the things that help me saying the room was the music, the playlist. So I started listening to cycling playlists on aeroplanes, and I still do that when we hit bad turbulence. I put on music from like a cycle in class and but the crazy thing, as is, even though I hated it so much because of what I had to do to stay in the room and like listening to the music that often and second class, as they play really music. That's about working hard and being tough and being determined somehow it me and I ended up getting certified to teach cycling like ten years later, and No, it's not my favorite form of exercise like something shifted in me because of the role that it played in that sort of part of my journey in and the being so proud to have dealt without fear that I spent so much time left control me, so that's might suit. You know there's an example that joy that still not like if you ask me gaming, twenty different work out and probably not going to choose getting on a bike, but
joy, but is not about a joy yeah Thus, you learn in writing. A book about the power of movement, for he said, was about not only that exercise a level in nature. The letter to movement and exercise, but also a love letter to human nature. Took you say more about that? Yes, oh one. The reasons are read. The book also is because a lot of the people in my life- I love love running, and I also don't run like. Why would you run when you the dance, but I wanted to understand why people love running so much and runners have such a love affair with the sport and the exercise twice but try and forget, with the runners high is, I mean I think I actually do experience at and other forms of movement without legal, after runners and look at the science of the runners high, and I discovered this whole field of research from Anthropology and nourish science- that that the theory is that we experience and high.
is related to endorphins and endocrine avenue and possibly oxytocin when we exert ourselves over a period of time, that's really It is to our need. When we were hunters and gatherers to go out and walk run forage carry. Heavy things. Evolution wanted us yet do this year and that our I found a way to reward ass for persisting through physical labour and and that reward is the runners high. But what is so fascinating about is, is the Neuro chemistry of it. It's not just an endorphin rush, which is what would make us may be, feel good and endorphins help us connect with others to but, seems to be driven largely by end Kanab annoyance, which is a narrow chemical that release. In an relieves anxiety that makes us really optimistic and facilitates the joy we get from. So
contact. It makes us more likely to enjoy, sharing and playing an and listening to other people, tell stories and enhances the pleasure of shared laughter, and this is a big part of the runners high and, oxytocin, which is a narrow hormone that helps us bond with others, particularly other people who are already in our life and in our social sir, and ass. He chose an also enhances the pleasure we get from helping others and cooperating, and the idea that the runners high is basically. This is near a chemical cocktail that doesn't just make us feel good, its priming us to connect, and when I talk to permit partners and others does I talk to who is studied some of this, and he was talking about how sharing was like the defining feature that made modern humans, human, whereas other, I would argue, as it was, hunting and gathering- and I
How amazing is it that that humans have this capacity to physically in door in order to survive, but that that capacity that that the biological rush we get is priming us to share and cooperate and connect with one another. It's like you go out, you get your runners high and you come back to your family or your tribe, a version of yourself, that's going to enjoy cooperating, enjoy sharing enjoy connecting and that strengthens the bonds at that help. Us survive. I to me about that when I talk about like a love letter to human nature, the bats it's amazing and so much of what I learned from talking to people about the role that movement plays in their lives is that they are experiencing this social support network or it or it empowers them to connect with the people in their their life, who are already important to them. and I just beginning to understand the neurobiology of that blew my mind. Are there things you learn about exercise and the benefits therein
that surprise, you, yes, okay, so I also found a body of research that I was not familiar with and I feel like most people are not from Are you aware that is only come out in the last decade? And it is the insight that your muscles are an endocrine organ so, like we know your dream, glands will pump out all sorts of hormones or better Harry Gland pumps out stuff that influences every system of your body, It turns out. Your muscles are also like an undercurrent organ, and when you contractor muscles and exercise they secreted proteins, they secrete subs, says that are insanely good for your health, that kill cancer cells and reduce information and all that, but also have a really profound effect on brain health and Mental Health and one of the first scientific papers that wrote about this call
them hope molecules this idea that when you exercise it literally, if you go for a runner, walk your quadriceps, your muscles, we'll secrete into your bloodstream, hope molecules these molecules at move through the bloodstream to your brain and act on the brain in ways that make you more resilient to stress that help. You recover from trauma that increase positive motivation, that increase neuro plasticity in a positive way and there's a whole bunch of them. They're called Mayo kinds and that no one study found dozens of these beneficial mayo kinds that were pump out by your muscles and to me its again. It's just so fascinating to think the coup who would think you had a pharmacy in your quadriceps and that the only way to access them is to contract your muscles and to use your body.
And I think like like you know your basically giving yourself in intravenous dose of hope. Every time you exercise, and that's probably one of the reasons that I knew. That exercise is one of the most powerful prevention and treatment for depression new that, but this is like one of those mechanisms. I'd never heard explained before, and I like to think about that when I exercise that I'm giving my brain that that ivy dose of home, I love that Will you write a book? Rethinking? Ok? Well, this is for people who don't your size and I'm gonna help them get excited to do it. No, it's not were- and they had never been asked to talk movement before in a way where they could explain how it made them. I thought, maybe that to the book was format as I was writing it. I realize that. I kept running into so many people who already loved movement. there were more of them than I thought there were, and they,
Never been asked to talk about movement before in a way they could explain how it made them feel about themselves or what it meant to them in a difficult time. And I think I realize writing the book that I wanted. I ended up writing a book that, first and foremost, is not an argument to persuade and on exercised exercise, although I think it might. I mean there's a lot of good reasons to exercise but think I ended up writing a book that, if you're somebody who has used movement of some form to survive to thrive too fine join meaning. This might be the first, time. You see it described in a way, were you really recognize it and its value like this is the book to give someone who doesn't understand why you love running or why it's important to go to that Zuma class. This is this. Is the book I think, says you. Maybe maybe maybe people told you that itself indulgent to pay
Our ties exercise when you should be taken care of other people or focusing on something else, and this is the book that says you know if you figure this out like this, is real and and here's wasted deepen it even more. I think that if, if you're somebody who thinks you hate movement, I'm gonna, I do meet people who, but do so funny they met so many people to them for this book who thought they hated movement until they found the right time. I'm one woman I spoke to she. She waited until I think her late forties to get in a boat she's around now awe and when she got in the boat, you should always thought she had the wrong body. It's not the rights, not how body should be the quite a lot of people have and then, when she got in a boat and felt the power and the power of working with other women to row shoot she's like yes, this is what I was born for and I feel like you know. Sometimes it's about fine
the right movement form or the right time in your life, and the other thing that I found in the research that was really interesting is that as we age, our brains, change in a way that makes us less receptive to joy, we know are reward system change and away where it you're basely losing a little bit of your capacity for everyday joy with every decade, and exercise seems to prevent in reverse that- and I thought maybe that's one reason why people swear they hate exercise, and then I people showed up to my classes in theirs these and Seventys who didn't exercise earlier now, they're saying this is such a tremendous resource for them. I think sometimes we have to wait far brains and our bodies to need it in a certain way to really understand the role that it can play. Stay too, and more of our conversation is on the way after this better help offers licensed professional councillors special, eyes in a wide array of issues like depression, anxiety and grief conduct with their profession?
counselor and a safe private online environment. It's a truly affordable option and listeners can get ten percent off your first month by going to better help dot com, slash happier fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with the counselor you'll love Do it new year's time yeah. I think you're a lot of people out there who I know because I I see that my local Jim you have these were resolution. here's your in there and for a couple weeks in them something again so everybody's try, not everybody, but a huge percentage of the population China do the new year new you thing and get an exercise habit going. You just listed all the benefits, but that is for some people. I think I would imagine that can provoke a sense of guilt and, like all these benefits, are out there, but I'm not accessing this stuff goes. I can't get myself to the gym. So how do we make this? A hat
let me start by saying Manning is really important, which is that the benefits have been talking about and even benefits. We haven't talked about like your sense of self that they have been demonstrated every age, every physical status they dont require being any particular eight. They dont require not having disabilities. I'm not. I was looking at research, although into hospice care at end of life. You still see these, ecological and social benefits of movement? So if there's any one who's, this and thinking I dont have the right body for it or I have a barrier to it. That is going to make this not the case. You know chronic pain, disability, a health condition. I do want to say up front that That is not true. So there's no there's no denoted, nothing required to get started and what I encourage people to do is not to lose for the thing that is selling you, the promise of getting indifferent body or losing weight, which is so,
prevalent in new year's but like. Why? Don't you ask yourself what a form of movement that you are inspired by. I give you were gonna. Watch people move what's interesting to you. Maybe there's a sports and if you can, someone can send you a Youtube video and what would you actually slow down and watch it? pull Walter is at a pull dancer. What what speaks to you? or was it a type of movement you enjoyed as a child like take first of all result permission to think of this as something that is going to be better than you think it's going to be that there is a chance that you can really discover an aspect of yourself that that you love through movement or that it could actually be fun. It could actually be meaningful. Like do you want to throw things June, a lift heavy things. What what? What have a movement seems appealing to you, that's all
is to start, and if you can't think of that to think about something that you know you enjoy, that you dont get enough of in your life already. Maybe it's being outdoors, maybe it's listening to music, you love! I like lip sink in every form of exercise that I do maybe it's spending time with particular individuals or like theirs, thing, maybe there's something that you you know you enjoy. A new movement can almost always be integrated into that joy until you can think of movement as an opportunity to take to get both of those at once and then too, start an experiment and see what resonate with you There are some research suggesting that it takes six weeks to get hooked on exercise for you, rain to literally change in a way that makes you want to exercise if you have never exercise before, another thing you might think about it or on the new year as it might take six weeks to really find out of this is for you
and so anything you can do to make the process more enjoyable while you, at their while you, your brain, is adapting to this new experience too. To take that. on view you have in the end the foregoing used. The word enjoy code of it, and I would point out that joy the title of your new book and I know a little bit about your: u dont, deep worker, Habit formation and have a change- and I know a little bit about it, because you're the star of this new have a change course we're doing on the ten percent happier app and joy is a you know that the reward systems of the brain can be harnessed to establish new hat. Yes, I so we know that the way you habits get formed is something that motivate you to do something. You practice the behaviour and you beer into reward for it like that's it, that's the secretive happen from topical issue: routine reward yeah. This it was interesting, is Q. It's often when we're done about an important habit, so
you know we're talking about what you pay the vending machine. Q sometimes works, but when you're forming new habit. That requires you to really. use your agency and do something different. That Q is is often really unimportant, motivation and deep motivation, like there's, going to be no q in the world that makes you want to quit smoking. For example. That's not. I mean that She makes you practice the behaviour of resisting the incredible urge to smoke. So am I and will use the word motivation to make sure people understand that it starts there so then you do your behavior and then reward reinforces it and over time the brain learns. This is something we do. and your brain changes in ways that makes it more automatic and an often more enjoyable or at least more effortless, so that reward off
or a new year's. We think about rewarding ourselves through exchange of rewards almost like we will. We will bribe ourselves to do new behaviour and I was encouraged people to look for the joy that's already intrinsic to the new behaviour enjoy, can take the form of pleasure, sir. You can look for ways to make the new habit or behaviour more actually as you have all so, you know. If you want it eat healthier, you should make sure that the food taste good you can go for them, the most delicious version of whatever your new diet is going to be and to try to elect pack into that process, whether its grocery shopping or cooking, or who you eat that healthy food with packing as much pleasure as you can, because that's one type of brain reward, but there's also the joy that comes from doing something, that's consistent with your values in your goals. So you said you You're, really good, when you're done with a politician ride like that is a reinforcement that is a form of joy, to pause for a moment and be like. I did
I'm glad I did it even just saying I'm glad I did. It is a form of joy. The celebration yet was celebration celebration and appreciation? is we can let it go I sort of little yet I feel good for nanosecond, but then I'm checking my email yeah, so we we can maybe savour that as a way to deal more deep, grain the habit, and I think that one of the reasons why people so often take selfies after a work out, I think it's not necessarily to break I mean I take way more work ourselves and I would ever share with other people, because something about that moment were you realize you're, taking a picture of the version of you. That did something hard like I'm Toffee did it. I'm smiling or maybe this is who I did it with you, and I spent this time without person I'm so these can be a great way to do it to or going back to eating healthier, take a picture of your mail.
and I can be a way to slow down and celebrate what you did. But I also think so. You know there is joy that comes from meaning it's not just the pride and satisfaction of having done it, really understanding what means and that's why getting clear about your motivation is so important because you know can there can be nine different reasons? You would want a new habit and why One of them is gonna be more powerful than the others. I want to stop and just put a big exclamation point on the your raising. Now we're really want a signpost this, because another part of your a huge part, if not the centre piece of your. As I understand it, your philosophy, IRAN, have a change, is figuring out your deepest motivation for why you want to do something actually have a change which we can. Sometimes
Think of as the superficial happy thing actually in your world view is a moment for profound reflection. yeah- and I think even the choosing of the habit is a time for for deep reflection- that If somebody's listen now they have their new year's resolution. It's time to think. Did you pick the right resolution This is something that is going to enhance your daily life is going to help you get closer to your goals. Is this really the right thing put your energy inattention toward and if it is you'll, be able to find a motivation that really carry some energy with it, and that will give you strength when you're exhausted, when it's difficult, when you're stressed out, when other people are putting pressure on you so Talkest touch was a man. I know in the ten percent happier app course we have got him. invitations that help people cannot get clear on what their deepest motivation is, but it will how practically
right now, if I want to think about why I want to establish an exercise in exercise habit. How do I clear on this sort of profound stuff, rather than I just want six pack, I haven't start people, I tell them, they forget the habit for a moment. What are the most important roles and relationships in your life right now get people think about what they are. What are the most important personal goals that your pursuing it are you on a path professionally or personally, is, there is something in your life that is causing pain, that you want to change and an important way. Plucked on questions like that, or is there a version of you that you, Can envision yourself becoming a version of you that want to shop in the world as an people often say things like ass? I wouldn't be the more adventurous version of myself or Adina the more compassionate version myself or something like that.
and so you you, ask yourself, questions about really what matters to you and in what direction you trying to move in life when you look at this habit and you ask yourself what does that have to do with the things that have identified as important to me and if it's a good habit for you at this time, your life. You will be able to draw down and see some important connections, and that becomes the most powerful motivation and if it's not that habit? If you picked it because you read in a magazine, it was a good idea to drink. You know, however, many glasses of a day. But you? U dont, actually like deeply believe it's gonna change your energy and health in a way that makes you a better parent or whatever like that motivation. Is this is really not why Would you spend your precious energy cultivating that have it? So I think that in anyways. Choosing. The right habit is as important as figuring out how to huldah. Now the habit rates of this scheme. to be correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me to take habit formation,
out of the realm of extrinsic motivation into intrinsic motivations. If I I'm exercising, because you know I feel, of insufficient in inferior, because I keep looking the cover of mental magazine in those guys, have bigger deltoid than I do that that might not be fuel that actually past too long, not whereas, yes, I M exercise because I have this deep desire, which I do to be around for my son gets married. Well then, that's that's actually. Quite that's. That That seems like a renewable source of energy that, when I have inevitable failures in twists and turns. I can, draw upon that in a way that my feelings of inferiority probably won't feel and here's the thing that I think people don't understand. It's not just that the motivation might help you exercise longer. You know that There's research showing yes, that's probably the case that motivation will work for you better in the long
the more profound not over yet than than feel shame or stigma herself judgment about your appearance, there's plenty of studies, show that, but the other thing I think people dont think about is, if you choose a habit, you're trying to form and you link it to a motivation that reinforces your own suffering. You are building a habit of reinforcing your own suffering. So if you try to link exercise to feeling bad about yourself in the way that your body looks and internalizing societal stigma. Shame you're, not building exercise habit you your building that habit. and enabling the shame have yeah, even if somehow it gets you to work out, you can't separate the habit that you're learning You may get an exercise habit, but your brain, is also learning. This is how the control myself. I control myself through shame and stigma. And so I feel like in many ways habit habit formation,
and our new year's resolutions are an opportunity to practise the habit of a different way of being with yourself and you can choose almost any habit and go through that process of finding a motivation that feels positive meaningful and using learning how you use that motivation? You could use that motivation to do almost anything and you would be building a habit. That's meaningful wrote. I have long been sort of reform, sadly in maybe not that thoughtfully anti new year's resolution, because I feel like if it matters to you, you do the thing or you would endeavour, nothing, but an so knew you'd do so. This is just like an artificial date honour on a counter which is, of course, itself artificial, and yet, if, if you're, using the artificiality to do a profound dive into were actually matters to you will that that sounds It's me ya. I agree, I mean I love fresh starts. You can do it at new years. You can do it for back to school, you can do it for the beginning of the week and I think that.
The practice that I do on New year's is actually choosing a word or theme for the year. That is is the year long version of what I do want to wake up in the morning. So I think about that word that I want to when I'm making choices, do. I say yes to this are now who do I spend time with whatever the choices are making throughout the whole year A word that I can use to help me make that decision, and that has been more factor for me, the nears resolutions, but it is a kind of resolve. So, ok, so we ve, we ve, talked about joy as something the tune into which, by the way, your meditation practice can really that self awareness that generated through meditation can really help. You too, into the joy, which can then keep you doing the habitat you wanna do we talked on an even keel level and not disconnected doing a look at your life and figuring out what it is you truly care about?
and harnessing your habit change agenda to that, let's just get a serve all but more practical, because you also talk about ways that, once you ve taken a look at what really matters you there are more practical steps. You can serve more small bore steps. You can take he's your path and allow them have to do a changing your environment Can you hold over that yeah? So if your clear There's a change. You want to make our goal. You want to reach to start to think about your environment is something that is always influencing you either supporting you or maybe sabotaging you and one of the first steps encourage people to do is put a feast go reminder in their environment. That will literally just remind them. Of what their goal is or what the new behaviour as one of its people talk about like putting your sneakers, oh yeah, and that but actually a tool, so that could negative two purposes, but I knew I think also so, let's say you
who had mentioned your son is a motivation for exercising, so it could also be a picture of your son here, where you keep your sneakers, that that be the thing that you need to remember and and the shoes are actually creating environment, that supports your goals, because that's the behaviour that that you really want to facilitate, but I think that in that first step is you know people will sometimes write a word out or something like that, or it could be a picture of a place that makes them feel a certain way or it could be a memento. Some object from your your law, fetch meaningful to you that reminds you know what you one in your life in the future took to put that somewhere, but you can remember the motivation as well and then look for ways. That your environment can literally concretely support your goals and that's about putting the sneakers out or getting the right food in your fridge or getting the technology that you need or unifil.
what it is that when you go about your life, there are things that, when you get distracted or when you're tired, you have you have this kind of support in it then your environment. I don't think there is another aspect of lot of our environments is other people, so I found in my marriage, my wife and I work out together. That makes it much more seamless. and we sometimes embark upon You know we decide what we were gonna try to not do so late that late night snacking. We do it together and you ve done what social connection as being part of habit change. Can you say more yanza? while social support is incredibly helpful for any change. You know if you If you have someone in your life who shares your goal and is doing it with you or who simply believes in your goal and is willing to support you. You have a much better chance of succeeding and I think those are two different types of of
shall support to think about. If there's, actually someone who will do it with you, you almost away outsource. Some of their usual willpower. We use that because the remind you of it. They'll take care of some of the logistics of it may be and then you also get that that reward to build the habit. That is, that comes from the social contact and the pleasure that you get from that also. You know it can be useful to know who, in your life, support you in making this change I may be you're, the only one who is making at or the only one who needs to make it and that you can ask people to support you in particular ways to maybe to stop sabotaging you in particular phase or to give you friendly reminders, helpful reminders, hold you accountable,
yeah. I like it when in a positive way, by asking how it's going and is there anything I can do to support it and by celebrating any successes with you- and I feel both of those are- are really important for any type of behavior change. Another thing that's huge for you. We go into this in depth in the course of the EP. Is self compassion or or letters the disutility of shame. Can you hold forth on that for a moment, I think a lot of us use haven't formation is a fiesta of self judgment yeah so many of us. Without that, shame and self criticism are motivating and impart. That's, because when we are feeling ashamed or were feeling self critical It feel so bad that we are wrong motivated in that moment to get rid of that feeling and we might even make avowed change but studies show that that that place of steel
ma or shame or self criticism, it's really disempowering it. Basically it was like throwing someone into a hole and then taking way any ladder they could have to climb out of it, and you just can't stuck in that whole feeling bad and looking for an escape without the resources Unita to get out of the hole and no, what we know is much more effective. Is it sometimes called self compassion, but, like you had that allergic reaction to even the word heart, I think a lot of people have an allergic reaction to the word self compassion, me too many people think it sounds like self indulgent source. I dont know that that The approach that I encourage people to take is to think about something who believes in you and sees the best, a new seizure potential really really wants you to succeed at your own goals.
Wants to see you be happy, be healthy and thrive. What would that person do and then you do that for yourself and part of self passion is also find the people in Europe, if you feel that way about you or fight me, go I don't get someone like a coach or mentor. That's compassion is about choosing to believe that you have the capacity to change and grow. being willing to remind yourself of what matters to you, even when you're in that pain, point of feeling, like you, let yourself down and and having the courage to get back, engage with your goal, even when it would be easier to give up one say I dont really care or I'm not dealing That's right. Now, that's really and no going back. We started off talking a little bit about compassion as a kind of courage and you think about why we have compassion, as a human instinct, Is it is literally a form of embodied courage so that we will approve
someone else's suffering rather than try to protect ourselves and not get involved. We have a compassionate instinct So when we see suffering, we will be brave and we will act and that's the definition. Self compassion that I like that. We have these other instincts that can be destructive when we're suffering When were feeling bad about a mistake, we made or were feeling hopeless about change, and we, into one who escaped those feelings and we look for the exit rude or That self compassion is ok, I'm I am going to find the version of myself, who is brave and is going to act in this moment to protect my well being and and that's how I define What does it look like somewhat? How would we actually practise self compassion? Because our, or the case you just made it my views unimpeachable. How do I do it? So it's too, by recognising suffer I may I would basically use my process model of compassion, so you don't mean
self compassion until you are in a moment where maybe your beating yourself up over some mistake. You made or you didn't do it said you were going to do So maybe you notice yourself saying like what's the point or you you always do those you always say you're going to, and then you never do it's because you never well whatever that dialogue is it's not always verbal might sometimes it's it's a feeling, but you noticed that and you you bring the same presence of mind that you would bring to someone else's suffering. If you wanted to offer compassion, that is you. to immediately, not fight it, but take a breath with it and allow yourself to be with at an recognise. Okay, this is a moment of suffering and then the next step of some compassion is often about trying to get some distance from that over identification. We can have with our own
and where it feels like we're drowning in it, and a tool that is often recommended is the perspective of common humanity, so you're beating yourself option this is I'm feeling bad about myself right now. This is hard that you I'm, not the only one. This is part of being human. This is this is part of the process of change and There are countless other people right now who are struggling with this process or the school or even harder, addictions and and habits that they are trying to work with and to take some strength from that, and I often Go a step further and think like maybe in some way my ability to break this trap by men right now of self criticism or self doubt. Or fear my willingness to try to be brave, and
wrong in this moment could help all of those other people too, and I don't need to know how that sort of like the tugela mindset of Self Command so. I'm going to imagine that my current act of mindfulness itself, compassion is somehow empowering all of us who are in the same boat and then you ask yourselves so what's the next step, I can take what we need right now. What what can I do that that reinforces that? I am committed to this, that that is a positive action and often, I think we targets have compassion. You will hear people almost talk about it as like that extrinsic reward again like an act of self kindness like take a bubble bath or give yourself a tree while okay, if the bubble bath, has something to do with why you're suffering in the first place, but I think it's a it's a more important act of self compassion. If you do something in that moment, that's consistent with your goal that you get back on track, whether it's you know Tuesday,
for repairing a relationship I mean whatever it is dont. Think about externally, bribing yourself or soothing yourself as the the choice of self kindness, that the truly self kind thing to do is start to make amends in the direction of whatever cause the the soft judgment the first, but let me make that concrete, because the thing I've been working on for a long time is, as you know, could we talk. We talk about in the course, of course, is mindless eating. so just last night, I had example that I I was on plant They did a pretty good job. With my eating, what I indeed enjoying it. While I was eating it and feeling good and then I took my son to see movie and finished his popcorn and then actually ended up feeling like just what is the move right there, because that was a moment of suffering. I didn't feel good and I felt better But myself and I was kind of beating myself up right there, so how would I offer patient eyes. Your advice in a moment like that, and we wish this while was actually happening where you alone or were you in there,
like I win them, even the movie theater feeling uncomfortable my pants and look at so you're. So with your son, rare that so here's how because it's different than if you can't fall asleep at night and your replaying it in your mind, actually think it might be a different situation, fair enough, but So I hope, having talk with you about this, that part of motivation around. This is because you want to have to be more present with your son Ryan, so the moment of self compassion. Here, I think, would be to know it s. Okay, so maybe I ate popcorn in this matter, of connecting with my son that I didn't mean to eat, and now I'm feeling uncomfortable my body. as you just acknowledge that happened in your having this feeling that you had wanted to avoid whatever that feeling as the regret or the physical discomfort and then go to that place, to even knowledge that go to
place of common humanity, like you could even your movie theater out you big, I bet. Half the people in this room right now probably have done something similar in this text, literally in the same boat with me right now, the first ever noticing or get this. Is this sucks yeah? This is a bad moment. Second, step is well yeah. Ok, but that language I dont, even know that you need to go to this sucks. This is a bad moment. I think one thing we know from the science of mindfulness is that affect labeling is really effective, that you label how you feel, as opposed to judge the holes circumstance of it so rather than this socks. This is a bad moment. I am feeling and then what you're feeling you know it loaded and gin guilty. Yeah. Ok actually so with interesting. Is that a more clear? the label and even chess labeling, the physical sensations and the emotion the research suggests that, efforts to change how you experience
those feelings in your brain in a way that gives you a little bit of distance from it labeling as a great technique, a sort of on the thus the fly mindfulness, that begins to give you a little bit more space around it and that can be part of a self compassion practice the next step is that common humanity in their so many ways you can do it, but then I think so self kindness net moment. So what something you can do to get back on track. I mean One of the reasons that that you're, interested in working with mindless eating is to be less cost. by self criticism so that you can be more present with your son so its end Then you could do in that moment like to look at him and think well I love you I mean, I think, there's only things you could do in that moment. That would reflect your goal in motivation and also changed something about the moment that allows you to move beyond the self recrimination. That's one way it could look you don't for
somebody else that doesn't have that back story. Maybe it's about looking at the carton of popcorn and and thinking about that, your great that you are able to nourish your body and that you are also grateful that you have the freedom to not put things into your body that you don't want. And mindfully throw it out. When you leave the movie theater. I don't always know what the actor self kindness is going to be, but it a thing where you you choose to bring something. to that moment. That feels like the opposite of both the self judgment. Not so whatever that suffering is so, I think of you know, maybe gratitude as a antidote to guilt or empowering yourself to take positive action like mindfully, throwing out the bucket and interest thinking I'm gonna, remember this moment. I'm gonna set the intention to remember this. The next time I actually figured did kind of first thing you recommended, which was his watch
my son enjoy. The movie is kind of dancing around to the music and he was bothering the dude sitting in front of us, but anyway whenever I was really enjoying watching my son dance around like watching dance, and he was so you would talk to meet or nearly so I will. I do do all the things I'm kind of familiar with the without Kristen F, on the show I am these steps around self compassion and I've been trying to do but I do find is that it's a kind of rinsing repeat situation, because the remorse or self. Isolation comes back and I've he's doing. and so let me I'm gonna, give you perspective that maybe you're not going to particularly enjoy, but here's my perspective on things like this I don't know that the mindless eating that you and gauge and last night is really having a big effect on your well being and your ability to contribute to the world. So sometimes I think self criticism actually latches on two things that don't
Actually matter that much and some I'm still haven't you need to train is to let go of something you ve been trying to control that actually is not as big a deal as we have said of clung to this belief. You know. Sometimes I think the self critic likes to find things that it believes are going to be really difficult to change. Not the things that are really important to change. What am I guess? I understand why you think I would like that perspective. I love that perspective, and you say critic doesn't like that perspective is what I probably should fair enough in the course of the king, the course you actually where there was a momentary, you said: maybe they haven't. You need to change is in mine, was eating, but self criticism, which I think is a very profound. It's me as a but a profound insight and by the way, part of it
you're one of your many many sort of not to use a superficial term, but like kind of talking Point Europe, or insights around habitat, is sometimes you're working on the wrong habit, and this may be a case where I'm workin on the wrong habit. if the inner critic chose the have it like. I don't know that. I would trust that that decision. I give the person is going to be put in charge of the habit, changes the inner critic. You probably got the wrong habit and if I were, if, if I truly care about is my relationships here, first and foremost, my relationship with my wife and child, then that in making decisions will have a change based again in this deep down, I've into my own priorities than mine, eating, probably isn't gonna make the cut, at least not of doubling up before self criticism, which of course obscures. My visibility in many ways
and this is one of the reasons why I was so set of cautious in in talking with you about this. Yesterday is because I can't now, I dont. Actually knowing there could be a separate yesterday, we were proposing ordered her to give so like it could be the case. You know could be one of them. The many many people who struggle with serious a serious eating too I don't. I don't know that so when someone says they weren't line on mindless eating that can be, tremendous source of suffering in your life, mindless eating. Be a really important habit to work with an eye, Just talking with transfigure like why, why make this the focus and it's the thing I hope people will investigate for themselves because a lot of things were told. We should control that frankly, the end of the day is a waste of time to try to control them. They aren't the thing. That's really determining. there. You are happy in life and whether you are doing what you here for right in one of these, you said to me, is are of Europe
your pants, maybe rather than work on mindless eating, or you know, exercise to a point where you you know just taken, too much of your time or whatever? Maybe just get new paths which a man to ask questions One. Is there anything I should have asked button? I mean now I thought that was a great question, but I don't have anything in mind. Offer some people are uncomfortable. This sum gonna make you do it anyway, which is just need you'd, be self promotional, possible new plug the new book. Can you tell us where you got up a TED talk with twenty million more views, it will give us. If we want to do a deep dive on you, your Pratt past books give us everything pleas of the new
which I love so much is called the joy of movement. How exercise helps us find happiness, hope, connection and courage. Previous books include the willpower instinct and the upside of stress. If you are not one of those people who has seen the TED talk, I just go to ted dot com and it's called how to extra, your friend and then the I was telling you yesterday. The little known fact I was passing tongue gland right before the talk, and I I have always thought that one. reasons it's been so viewed. I didn't not sure the talk is actually that good, but I feel like maybe people can tell that I was doing tongue gland and that somehow that elevated the talk, yeah. You can find me on my website at Calais, mechanical dot com and the social media channels under my name Eurostar. Thank you very much. Really it big thanks.
I fear that, as a reminder be sure to check out the new healthy habits course with Kelly. That is up on the temperate and happier app right now it launched today head over to ten percent dot com, slash habits, to learn more about that and try the full course with our seven day full trial and yeah. I'm really proud of it. It's where I think one of the best things we ve done. Our time with a voice. Males are reducing special. This week, and for a couple of weeks, we ve recruited a ringer you heard me, I think, talk about on show before her name is re. Housman she's, ahead of the coach and team at ten percent happier, the cultures are a fever of each the app there were really proud of it. We have these really deeply committed inexperienced experienced meditators on call to answer your questions. If not in real time than in a short period of time and re is, as I said, the boss of that group. She
ie is not only in its various meditation teacher she's. What called a semantic exe we rinsing therapist, and also, just after certain personal note of high quality human beings very, very funny in very, very smart, so she's gonna answer your voice. Males here we go. But then my name is Julie and by one unable to read your first book I am currently using the meditation out that you just put out- and I haven't read your second but my question is focusing on the breath has always been a bit difficult for me because, as soon as I start to focus on my birthday, hold my breath or I hope that a and I dont know if this is ever been Dressed in any kind of meditation work, that's out there, but I fight hard for me to focus on my breath. Is there something else to practice meditation that you can focus on? Besides your breath,
I extend my thanks for the question, it's great to hear that using they have and thanks for sharing about the experience or having when you try to focus on the breath Start and come and have a difficult time breathing when practicing with a focus on the breath. I will, but that this is often the result of trying too hard to concentrate sometime most people are able to move through this if they are able to relax the attention and just at the sensations of the breath, be known. and there are certainly other practices that are equally good to take up in place of a breath. Focused practice. When I recommend for folks who, for various reasons, have a difficult time using the breath as the primary focus is too shift the practice. To either sound overall body sensations. When, they work or sound is your primary focus is simply direct. The attention to the ambient sounds in your environment. There's no To try and hear anything or to identify,
What is your hearing we must allow the sands than arise in your environment to be known, and if you are using the noting practice as a support, I said asked using the note hearing hearing, and if you work with the sensations of the body as the primary focus of your practice, you allow the awareness to rest on the experience of what the body sensations are. As you are setting. You can use a body scan practice to support a focus on the sensations of the body. you had scan the body feeling the sensations while moving the attention through the body from the head to toe or toad ahead, We have practices on the app that support both of these styles of practice. You can find them by using the search function at the bottom of the singles tab,
using the search terms sound or body scanners with either of these two options, the practice would be the same as it is when you use the breath as the primary focus every time you notice the mind, has gotten caught in thought gently. the attention back, two other sounds or the body sensations. I hope this is helpful. Thanks again for your question, our thanks. For that that voice my number one. Let's do number two you'll hear the voicemail far by raised response. They then lanes bench thanks for everything. You're doing. Obviously, I've been meditating on and off or a couple years I would say more daily for the last year, almost to the day I'm noticing that when I'm an appeal,
of what you might call it depression or just an overall like low point in life and punch. You left me. I called depression Alessio months and months at a time when I've meditating in that more depressed stake, a part of me feels it gets so desperately trying to self sabotage, even my own meditation practice and what I mean by that is like when I'm meditating. I noticed that I had kind of thinking to two different places which are either part of me. Internally is just screaming at myself to stop meditating assume is I'm sitting there, Bergamo, five minutes My body is, like so stressed, about sitting there meditating and I'm trying to watch that stress pass and I'm trying to you know I am awareness, I'm the sky, let the anger
now that girl, but sometimes it feels so overwhelming that literally felt, like I'm gonna burn a blood vessel like I feel like. I have two almost answered my muscles, so let it pass and even manages keeps coming back or the second mood is it just my brains bases so cloudy and my meditation become so dreamy that an alchemist feels like on fruitful, like I'm, not sure on falling asleep or dreaming of what one wended, but basically, when I'm depressed these Patients in came to be a lot less fruitful. I'm wondering if this is something you ve been counter door at the seams comment. That even made any sense at all anyway, thanks so much again for everything you guys doing. I know ultimately, the answers, probably just keep meditating through it, but what I'm going on? What's going on right now, I get it meditate through. It seems to be the idea, but I gotta with what the European Union
I don't think it thanks for this message, I saw appreciate your interest and learning to practice skilfully with depressive mine states. We. wanna, be cautious about how we interpret the phrase practice through it practice. We aren't sitting down to check box or long time. I'm trying to get somewhere else, not even to different mind, state. We are interested in meeting our experience just as it is arising in the moment, and we they do that as skilfully as we are able when it state is arising in your aiming to practice with it? You can, check to see? If there's curiosity in the mind about the state itself is there addressed in investigating the state whereas interest, then you can explore increase like what does the body feel like when there is a depressed of state in the mind, what are the sensations in the body.
what is the mind state itself like or Does the quality of a depressive state feel, like perhaps the mind, is more narrow or dull? What thought or beliefs may be happening that support the depressive state. dear here the mind can be curious about the state is to explore, are the state with awareness and openness without taking a personally Without reinforcing it, this is also true, if the state feels dollar sleepy bring interest to our mind, states and no them as they are. We can go actually learn about them?. And if the mind, is not curious or does not have interests in exploring the state, that's ok. We want to respect that. And not try and push through it
in times when there is no curiosity arising. We want to move towards practices that can help bring more ease to the experience may find walking meditation practice to be supportive in a time like this directive, the attention out toward your present moment, external environment and allowing the mind to simply be aware, as you're walking of both the environment and the sensations of the body moving can bring some east to the mind and uplift, the heart it can also be really supportive to work with us, Herb, MR counselor, when evaluating depressive states. I ink I urge you to get all the support you may need, thanks again, for your question really appreciate it very vexed array for diving. It is good to have her entry, questions this weekend and she'll be back for more very soon. In fact, we ve got a big month come up as we ll nineteen to twenty twenty here, we're gonna be tackling sleep,
with a huge episode on sleep, a big episode on healthy attitudes around eating work, yet the anti diet episode and then also we're gonna dive into how to boot up your meditation habitats. That's obviously huge issue at this time of year, so. mom back was next Wednesday and also just a little plug. If you like what we do share us on social media or just share it intervenes. Full episode with a friend that's a great way to help us grow for goods, Thank everybody who worked so hard on the show. Ryan, Kessler, Samuel, Johns, grace, Livingston, Laura hearts I'm thanks tell as also Josh go hand, is helpful back working with us for a little while see you next week there's not a person in Amerika who hasn't been impact it in some way by the Corona I was pandemic, but it every community there are pockets of people who are sitting up.
every day this is my my day last day of the cylinder stretch of proteins for one of our ten, and these are America's essential workers, the people who are keeping moving. I turn into a home school mom and now in a new plants from Ebay, see news you going from damaged and even worse, I she went back to my office inside crying because it's not fair hearing here, making sorry that our community smiled faintly moraine. This is essentially inside the from the emergency room. It's the police, cruiser to the czech outline. You hear what this pandemic sounds like the people putting themselves no one's way, there's always a risk that I could breathe is home to my kids. Are my husband or my parents? Listen to the essentials inside the curve on Apple podcast revision, podcast him.