In an election season characterized by misinformation, mistrust, and now a positive covid test from the President-- we’ve been plunged headlong into a black hole of uncertainty. So here at the Ten Percent Happier podcast, we’ve decided to serve up some deep counter-programming.
Unlike the campaign coverage you’ll get everywhere else in the universe, in this special “Election Sanity” series we won’t have arguments and we won’t talk polls. We’re going to help you navigate all of this tumult and toxicity in a way that allows you to be both engaged and calm.
We’re building this series around an ancient Buddhist list (the Buddhists love listicles, as we’ve discussed on the show) called The Four Brahma Viharas. That phrase, Brahma Viharas, translates, literally into “divine abodes.” At first blush, the notion of divine abodes -- or heavenly mind states -- may sound a little grandiose. But I promise you this whole thing is actually very much down-to-earth.
These are four mental skills that we can train through meditation. In Buddhist circles, the four skills are commonly referred to as: lovingkindness, compassion, sympathetic joy (which means taking joy in the happiness of others), and equanimity. I like to make them a little more user-friendly by calling them: friendliness, giving a crap, the opposite of schadenfreude, and staying cool. The proposition here is radical; instead of defaulting to hatred or indifference at this fraught moment in human history, can you cultivate the opposite?
Science suggests the meditation practices designed to help you build these skills can have all sorts of physiological and psychological benefits. In this special series of episodes, we’ll show you how to practice, and also how to operationalize these skills in your life at a time when we— and the world— need them most.
We’ll be dropping new episodes, with a different teacher, every Monday in October.
Today we’re kicking off the podcast series with insight meditation teacher JoAnna Hardy. She’s been on this show before, and she’s also featured on the app, where she teaches guided meditations, and a whole course about using meditation to help you live an ethical life. She also recently co-wrote the handbook Teaching Mindfulness to Empower Adolescents, and is a founding member of the Meditation Coalition.
In our conversation, JoAnna starts by giving us a user-friendly overview of the Four Brahma Viharas, and then we do a deep dive on the first of these mental skills: friendliness. And if this concept -- or the thought of applying it to a person you can’t stand -- makes you squirm...great. JoAnna’s here to argue that metta is an edgy-- and not at all corny-- practice.
Where to find JoAnna Hardy online:
Dharma Seed: https://dharmaseed.org/teacher/549/
To help you get the most out of this series, we're launching an email guide. Just like the podcast, this guide is free. You can sign up for it at https://tenpercent.com/guide.
It will recap all of the podcast episodes each week. It’ll include helpful tidbits such as key terms and concepts; highlights from the immense wisdom our guests bring us around concepts like compassion, equanimity, kindness… and we’ll link to relevant meditations and talks in the TPH app. May you find it fruitful.
Full Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/podcast-episode/joanna-hardy-288
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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from ABC this is the ten percent happier podcast
Harris, hey guys, big news. Today we were taken off some big here in an election season characterized by
mistrust, misinformation and a howling sea of venom. We hear it.
ten percent happier podcast have decided to serve up some deep counter programming, unlike the campaign coverage, you're gonna get pretty much everywhere else in the universe in this special election sanity,
theories which launches today we will be having arguments we won't be talking about the poles. We can help you
have gate all of the tumult and toxicity in a way
that allows you to be both engaged and at least somewhat com or building
series around an ancient buddhist list. The Buddhists love list goals, as we have discussed on the show many times the list in question. Here it called the four Brahma the horrors that phrase Brahma.
Horrors translates literally into divine abodes at first blush, the notion of divine abodes or
heavenly mind. States may sound a little grandiose, but I promise you this whole thing is actually very much down to earth. These are basically for mental skills that we can train through meditation in buddhist circles. The four skills are commonly referred to as loving kindness, compassion, sympathetic joy, which means taking joy in the happiness of other people and equanimity. I like to make this list a little bit more user friendly by calling the skills.
Friendliness, giving a crab the opposite of schadenfreude and staying cool. The proposition here is radical. Instead of defaulting to hatred or indifference, said this fraught moment in human history. Can you cultivate the opposite? Science suggests the meditation practices designed to help you build. These skills have all sorts of physiological and psychological benefits. So in this
special series of episodes, we're in show you how to practice and also how to operational lies the skills in your life at a time,
when we and frankly the world need them most
will be driving new episodes with a different teacher every Monday in October and
In the days leading up to the election working to launch a special election sanity, meditation challenge on the ten percent
Europe with new videos and guided meditations every day from the teachers you ve heard on the pot cast down below
Most of the series were also launching an email guide. This email will recap the pod cast episodes every week. It will include helpful tidbits such as key terms and concepts, and highlight the immense wisdom of our guests. It will also linked to relevant meditations and talks inside the Tpa app just like the pod cast. The guide is free. You can sign up at ten percent that come slash guide again. You can get this special newsletter for our lectures. Hannity podcast series at ten percent dotcom, Slash guide. I hope it helps today were kicking off the pot gas areas with insight. Meditation teacher Joanna Hearty she's been on the show before she also featured quite heavily on the app where she teaches guided meditations and a whole course.
Which we shot in a bar about how meditation can guide us in our ethical decisions. Jails are recently co, wrote the handbook teaching meditation to empower adolescents and she's a founding member of the meditation coalition, and this conversation she starts up
giving us a simple overview of the forum of the horrors and then we take a deep dive on the first, which is met
or loving kindness or friendliness, and if this concept or the thought of applying friendliness to a person you cannot stand, makes you squirm or fear weakness or passivity, great Joanna
perfect person to argue that mega is in fact an edgy and not at all corny practice. So here we go Joanna Hardy.
Hello Joanna nice to see you hi it's here each year.
We are happy to see you and I'm really glad you agree to jump on this strange little train were we're gonna, chug right through the heart of the election season here so yeah. I guess
really really valuable. Like I get it, and I like the challenge, we'll talk about that in a minute cuz, it's challenging hit, it's a good word for it, yeah! No, yes, you're going to be participating both in this podcast and also in the challenge. So there's a lot a lot of work
Earth sign you up for a lot of work, yet when there is we wanted you to go. First was to just set the framework of the four
Brahma V horrors or in the divine abodes before a measurable, as there are sometimes called. What are we talking about
So, as we know, there are plenty of mine states that can lead us in the direction of fear and anxiety and worry, and these are mine states that in a really help us to be more open, it helps clear the decks. Sometimes it helps purify. You know, maybe old resentments are baggage or things that are really hindering us from connecting from being,
in states that I think we all desire, which is lack of separation and lack of other ring.
Surely belonging. So these are quality
is of the mind that we
either, have when a lot of the things that block us aren't present or their qualities that we cultivate and really in a work on developing even more, if their hard to connect with which they can be just that can speaking only for myself, so let's walk through each of them
did. I know we're gonna do a deep dive on what is often the first, that is taught the matter or loving kindness or friendliness, but can you walk through the four for sir, so matter like
You said it is a poly word that is translated into often times it's called loving kindness. I think many people have heard that terminology Mets are loving kindness. I really like to phrase it and how I work with it most deeply. Is this unconditioned heart and mind on condition
love? I talk about that a little bit more, but sometimes easier to palette. You know
Herr kindness friendliness benevolence, just as you know this open spacious, mind that has a level of acceptance, so that would be matter
and then compassion is coming is sometimes I like to look at it is compassion, is Mehta less suffering right, so
it's. How that mind of care, kindness, love friendliness, meets the suffering of our
valves are other people. So when we see somebody in pain, when we see somebody
You know it's all around us right now, so it's not even like we can avoid suffering right now, but can we meet that with this ability to stay present with it not be?
Fraid of it not pitying, not running from it. But what does it look like to hold our hearts with love?
in the eyes or in the proximity of suffering and pain. It's really easy to shut
down or non are close off, but what compassion asks that we stay present for it? We stay awake to it.
And maybe even have action through that. You know a lot of times. Compassionate action is, what's called for
and then the next one we com mood data. Again, that's the Polly word but which translates into sympathetic or empathetic joy. So it's
in a very simply delighting in the happiness of another. So it's not
about our own joy, but it can. We engage with other people when they have something
the good and beautiful happening for them, and sometimes we can't, because we have these blocks of maybe
lsd or envy or the. Why not meis you know, or something
that. Sometimes it's really easy to make somebody wrong. It's really easy to want to protect ourselves through hatred. You know it's like levying or being
tender or being open, feel scary. You know, like I said it's a challenge. It feels like we have learned so well to protect ourselves and to bolster up and to have a you know, a tough fist and that's how we're going to survive. That's how were actually gonna make it and actually the things that block love
You know that things that block our ability to love like fear and anxiety and worry and control. Sometimes it's really hard to engage when somebody else has something good happening for them. So this is that pure quality of the mind that says, while I am truly happy for you, I am truly happy that this is happening and that you have joy right now, so that would be mood. Data empathetic, sympathetic, joy
So what I want to say- and we say something I said earlier- is matter compassion with data- are not passive experiences there not being stepped on or walked over, actually there's an incredible fierceness to it. Like you, we have to be pretty confident to come in with loving care right if its unique, if its authentic, if its genuine
if we're trying like, I said to get something from someone like one minute, you know, kill them with kindness. I would you get more from sugar than vinegar, like those phrases are true, you know their true, but we have to be careful about what we're trying to get from it. Because then that's just mimicking. You know, that's just mimicking Karen Kindness, there's still a watch. Their stole a sort of clinging to outcomes
is this not making sense too, it is ok and then the last one is equanimity and an equitable is the capacity for them
and in the end, this is gonna, be an interesting one. You know as we go through it. The capacity for the mind to find a balance or to be ok with experiences as there are rising and happening
and some people can hear that as well. Wait a minute. That means I have to accept all the terrible stuff that's happening, and that's not what we're saying, but equanimity has as balanced as clarity this ability to see
what is actually happening in an open way when it often encompasses all other three: it encompasses metal encompasses, compassionate, encompasses mood data and then what I've found
ass, we go. Is they don't need to be compartment Elias? You know it's not like today. I need to think about matter tomorrow need to be compassionate or this needs compassion, and that needs more data. It's real.
Sometimes will just be sitting in one moment and feeling a lot of sense
oh and a lot of grief and really connecting to that and holding it with care and then suddenly might typical
over into a memory of something that really brought us or somebody else alot of joy
then so. Suddenly, our minus inclining towards new data,
again. Another thought might arise that points us in the direction of MECCA. You know so so the for quality is really can work together. It's almost like giving the right medicine for the right moment
and so we'll see you know even in this conversation you and I are having will probably have moments where compassion is called for and will have moments of joy for each other and for our experience and then we might, you know actually not agree on some.
Thing or you'll have a question about something that I am saying and then Aqua Nimitti would be called for right, and so it's really kind of beautiful, because with this base of Mattei is what I'm gonna says met as almost the base than all of these other experiences arise in without and threw it ok, you said a lot. There is extremely helpful and adjusts. What's a thought came to my mind when you were when you're holding forth there
I've been referring to this series of podcast we're doing, and the challenge were doing on the app as deep counter programming against the kind of election coverage that you mostly get in there in the culture. But this is also these four measurable. Whatever you want to call them are counter programming against evolution. I mean we are so wired for in
reference for selfishness for antipathy for being
banks around by our emotions for the opposite of these qualities and the notion that that actually, you can
freeing up estate.
cool. Having the
opposite of schadenfreude, giving a crap about other people's problems having basic friendliness. That is really fascinating to me and then just to boot it that it's all backed up by science. The people who do these practices- you see very impressive results.
really exciting yeah. I guess that's not a question of just commenting. Ya know, I'm with you on that, and I beg the question of. Is that abolition
because I feel like we would not have survived. We really need to think about how we ve been looking at at love. You know and we're in trouble as we know we're in trouble and so something like the radical party.
Bela of caring about somebody that we don't even agree with? It feels like we
have anywhere else to go. We ve done it all. We ve seen the damage and here
really living in the middle of it, and so, if we left it
Turn devices like you're saying you know it's really easy to want to blame, but I would ask somebody who's been
any kind of mindfulness practice like what actually feels better. What feels better in
body. You know, I know what tension feels like, and I know what
anger feels like and its tents, its tight, its rigid, its blocking joy.
Dare I decide to ease myself and let go of some resentments like? Dare I do that it feels like we're gonna fall upon. I want to
not that you very gently disagreed with me and I agree with your disagreement about evolution. I misspoke little.
there. You are really appreciate the ginger correction there that we evolved for all of the difficult noxious tendencies I listed like hatred and mistrust.
boy also of evolved for carrying in cooperation and in taking pleasure in other people's success. We would not have survived. In fact, there is some evidence that or there's some.
Theorizing by Darwin himself that the tribes that did the best were the ones who are best able to cooperate. So, of course, these are both in us but then
ocean that were able to train up the more wholesome elevated states is very exciting, given what you just said, which is that there is an enlightened self interest at play here. It feels better to live that way. Tat S pretty simple, and you know what we tend to reach out to what feels better in
external sources like it feels better to eat ice cream. Sometimes you know what feels better to I don't know have sex. It feels better to being a binge watch. Netflix. I feel
better. Like I mean I could go on and on about the ways we check out, but then, when we're reaching towards an ex turn, all experience to feel better, the same thing is true for making us feel lousy right. These external things make us feel lousy. You know people they disagree with us
not being seen or heard. The way we want to be certainly were watching it here. You know in the upheaval of our
Local situation are racial situation. All these external things that are making us feel pretty bad right now, right, that's an understatement for the world
So why? Where and how we choose to place our energy is what we're going to become in what we cultivate, what we grow. You know that very typical likely plant the sea it and that's what grows
so, and I'm not trying to sound like pollyanna, or this isn't like a corny practice by any means.
If anything, I actually think it's an edgier practice, dare I say even than like straight up mindfulness, you know and its edgier, because it for
so ass, to see where we might feel like we don't like who we are like. I want a fancy. Myself are really kind nice, loving person, or I want a fan
see myself in a certain way and then when were saying something like
you know, may you be happy and your life
yeah, but I only want you to be happy. If I only one
you to be happy. If you give me why I want- or if you give me what I need and that this is where that unconditional aspect comes in like there is conditioned love and then what is the idea of unconditioned love? Look like unconditioned Karen!
meanest look like and again it's like. I can even feel it in my body over and over again when I'm contracted, my belly is tight. I feel like shut down. I can't really hear much and then, when I'm open, when I'm spacious, so we could even call them that I just open this spaciousness the ability to want to listen the ability to want to end
stand the ability to want to see somebody or something without the cloudiness of our preconceived judgments are opinions. That is what allows us to sit in a room where somebody that we might disagree with on everyone.
About everything like way they live, who they are, what they do. We can still sit in a room with people like that and care about them, even if they don't agree with
ass, so I know we're gonna. Do a pretty deep dive appear on how to practice and then deploy this quality of matter.
Especially right now and tumultuous, to say the least election season Bobby to back up for a second back to the list of the
for a measurable Brahma, VIII Horrors, etc, etc. You ran through
the qualities were met, friendliness or loving care
this Karuna compassion again these
words, I'm using care are as joint,
and from the language of Polly, which is the language reported to have been spoken by the Buddha
and there's equanimity, which is Packer and new data, which is sympathetic, joy, which I said I'd like to refer to as the opposite of schadenfreude.
We ran through that list, but this isn't just a description of qualities. It's also a set of practices right and you said there not corny, but they will at least to me at first they sounded irretrievably corny, so she AEGIS describe how these qualities are generated.
through practice. What the practice looks like right now, there's a couple ways. You know: there's lots of different ways to teach these practices even within you know the tradition that I teach through inside of a postinor mindfulness
mission by two different ways. So one way is that the removal of all forms of
need hatred or delusion. You know all forms of what the locks, a clear heart and mind is one way to practice Mehta. So what that would mean is really paying attention to I'm gonna use sphere cause. I think a lot of people are in a lot of fear.
Right now right. So a fear is really really present in the mind it's going to block or veil the ability to have Mehta or this unconditioned love, so one way would be to practice with through mindfulness the awareness of the fear and when we work deeply with something, like fear,
how we experience it in the body how we experience it through our sensations, just even knowing it's there putting down the actions of fear, often times when we start to have clarity, where fear isn't there, the absence of fear that in and of itself could be considered a mind that has meta right, so that's possible. So when we don't have these things, you know we call them sometimes are called the far end
is a matter which is aversion and hatred and fear, sometimes, when those aren't there and we are actually paying attention which, sadly, we dont often pay attention when things are going. Ok, we pay more
engine when things are really terrible when those aren't there. Oftentimes that mind that is very open, that is receptive could be considered a mind of MECCA
So that's one way of practising with it is noticing it. No
sing a mind that is free of its opposite. Like I said oftentimes, we don't we wait until something huge are bad or catastrophic, comes along or something great and temporarily pleasurable comes along, but often times the mind. That's free of those things is a mind of matter and other way to work with it, as a formal practice is to use phrases so phrases that are typically used by something like. May I be happy, may I be at peace and at ease? May I feel safe and protected from harm? May I be free and then we then move from the south
working with south working with somebody who's easy to send love to send matter too. So it's not about an outcome right, I've, a million, more questions about matter, especially in the current context of which were living in the much going on in the news generator. But let me just close the loop on the
for framework here of the four, be these that's what we call them behind the scenes here, temperate and happier than
Brom of ours and how one practices them, so you described the practice, the matter practice. Your take your position close your eyes,
What and then you the way. I was taught
by a teacher in spring Wash em who been on the show several times,
phenomenal human being, in my opinion, if she was the first person to teach me his practice, I was rebelling against it in my seat, but she exhorted us to you know start with your cell
and try to bring to mind an image of yourself or felt sense of yourself and to repeat for phrases, may be happy may be safe. May we help
may live with ease and then to move, as you describe from yourself to an easy person
The way I was taught by her was then easy person, then a benefactor there.
and a neutral person and then a difficult person, and then all beings everywhere and each
Time, you're bringing to mind an image of the people or us felt sense of them and then
hurling the phrase it at them. The way Oprah hands out cars so anyway, just to wrap up the framework here,
It is all about accurate, yes, all of its accurate,
and I also want to leave space for what we actually need right. This is your practice. This is our practices. My practice I like to set people up for success versus failure, so you know sometimes sending love to south can actually be the most difficult thing
do even more difficult than the difficult person and I've had many students say to me no Joanna. I can't do this, so I'm not going to write and so in
of maybe going in that way?
allowing ourselves to amend the practice to what's most useful for us and so in terms of setting people up for success. You know if
a puppy need are happy that you don't even know is one way that we can approximate this feeling
of care and kindness, the let's do that, so that we can start to get a feel for it,
they continue on that, but I also just had a bit of
the question, I want to start a debunk, the myth of matter in a way that you know I know for me personally and many people. I work with we'd all often feel like this big
and feeling in our hearts? You know it's not like this like, oh, so you see, and I have two years than I'm so you know in its post the lands
we're right in this area that we call the heart or the chest, and do you know that mean
never ever ever happen, and that does not mean that we are not doing matter right. It does not mean we're not a living person, it does not mean were unable to love care by
any means when you're doing this practice, you can
fall into the. I have many too
I fallen into the pit of despair
like, I'm not feeling any love here, but what
you're feeling in the moment is not the measure. It's the. This is an exercise where your boosting your muscle over time to feel this,
never feel it in the actual practice, but a up in your life and really important ways
or you're feeling a ton of in practice, and that's great, but that's not the correct measure. You know I am I gushing with white,
Beams of love like coming out of my heart chalk, or it is not the way to measure it. You gotta look at this like exercise, that's right! Absolutely in it.
Anything you know. I know a lot of very carrying loving kind tender show up kind of people who may never actually have that gushing oozing feeling in the heart, but they know how to show up, and so the out just
encouragement to really not undervalue. What love looks like for you for us for each of us as individuals, like everything,
every other way we compare ourselves to others got enough, not good enough bad. You know.
This is another way that we can judge ourselves. Then that's really not! The point is that practice
and we might come up against it and that's ok, you know, will come up against it and say: okay, I see you, you know I'm afraid of this. It's different! There's this one James
Following quote. I hope you don't mind if I I say it, but it's really been a valuable part of my met practice and a kind of exemplifies. What we're talking about is that love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and no, we cannot live within.
I use the word love here. Not merely in the personal sense, but as a state of being or a state of grace, not in the infantile Americans
hence I've being made happy, but with tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth. I love that we use anatomy yeah for sure, so is
like, I feel like you Dan, would not be doing the work you do if you didn't have a whole lot of love for the people that you come into contact with right.
How do you feel that, in your
the area everyday. When you get up to go to work, maybe not that to me as love there,
sending that Baldwin quote. That really reminded me of eight incredibly powerful point has been made by several researchers and happiness and wellbeing
come on the show, which is the barrier to even called love and call it authenticity called spontaneity and call it happy now
scan action, vulnerability. All these gooey words the price
Mary barrier I have heard time and again from our expert guests is the armor that we put
on somewhere and our childhood to survive in this often deeply sub optimal world and
heard that come up in my mind when you were talking about the masks, the absolutely
Why say like? It is a challenge. This is a courageous practice to take on and
No, why it's not often the most popular
and for many reasons. So one reason if we are now looking at the categories again for working on metaphor self, again, like
already said you know it's an opportunity for us to see all of the things we might not like about ourselves if we're doing metaphor us
range like a neutral person, somebody we don't know at all. It really signs a light on
Maybe we dont pay attention to most people. You know how we pretty much ignore everybody, that's neutral to us, and what's that about you,
they can. I show up a little more fully, even for them and the pain that
might be in order that the experiences their lives are happening in a working in the grocery store, the Post office or the person the walks or dog by my house. Whatever you know, the person we could so easily ignore is kind of a lot
See you we miss out on that? Certainly, we learn a lot from working with the difficult person, because the question that I always get is
What does that mean that I condone their actions, or does it mean that I need to have dinner with the minutes? I absolutely not. It does not mean that we need to let them in our house and be stopped all over. What,
means, like I was saying again, is that it allows us the freedom to not have to,
walk around with them all the time. You know it's sort of hake
I don't want to walk around with my ex husband. All the time
and my heart just because I'm mad at em like I would rather be free of that side, rather send him some Mehta be inner life.
Single load in my life lighten the tension.
my life, actually like my ex husband now by the way. So it's it's all good, but you know what I'm saying is that there are so many ways that we carry around the burden of the difficult person and Theirs
are better places to put our energy. So if we're on obsessive mind looping about somebody, we hate or something we hate, something that we're seeing that we hate. Ok, it has its place. We can acknowledge it. We can see
truth in the bad behaviour whatever's going on, and is there the possibility to see
where human being in their fallibility, and we don't need to like them right. We don't need to, like I like to kind of divided between the action and the actor. So
We might not like what they're doing, but can we have an avail
billowy in our own minds to at least recognise
more of my conversation with Joanna Hardy right after this.
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So let me get topical picking up on what you just said,
How can we apply on the cushion or off matter in this dumpster fire of a presidential
election were watching right now. The immortal words
in a turner. Once love got to do with right right way, she also said
Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken, Tina Turner today right? It's a forty eight hour. We gotta figure Ed, I'm not mad at that. So way again is being careful.
that. Will power defining love, often times when we hear
that we immediately go to a romantic space. I can't say where Tina Turner, I quote, that song from buffet
You know a lot of the love songs are about romantic love, so this again there's so much when I picture,
You know, and I advise you ally's what matter? Is it so much more expansive its bigger than all of us? You know it's bigger than and again I'm not trying to be corny, but I feel like if I didn't have this practice of matter in my
life. I would just be an angry Ikey person, so in the realm of what were experiencing, where all that's being thrown at US
fear and anxiety and worry and future thinking which
there's been many amazing teachers on here that have talked about fear and worry and anxiety and how to work with it in our mindfulness practice that one of the biggest antidote to know their call Mehta is called an antidote to fear and worry and anxiety. So in somebody's day right when I did I'm assuming most people too
the second we wake up. We turn on the new seen our weak. Are we look at our phones? We look at some kind of information stream. We look!
You know we check out what happened in last eight hours while we were sleeping and for the most part, it's like yeah
every once in a while, something really big new happens and for the most part it just cite re digesting and retelling more of what brings us
more fear and anxiety and worry. So in practice thing you know one of the things I'm hugely recommending for people right now is to take breaks. Sorry, sorry, dad visiting breaks from the news ray. I agree with those who take breaks from social media to take breaks from info
May to take breaks from all the things that are triggering constantly. We don't have a break. Our minds are so overwhelm so overtaxed that there's not even space for the idea of love right so to take breaks for a little while, but then also watch. Where does the mine incline, and so we're really good at being in the bad habit of hating someone when we can hate somebody or blame somebody, it allows us to deflect the very uncomfortable feelings that were having and never have to come into contact with our grief. You know our sadness Mehta offers us the opportunity,
held in our grief and our sadness when we're being bombarded by information and talking points and again we don't know it's true any more. We don't know what's real
the more we don't know who to listen to any more. We don't know any INA we're just in this constant state of confusion for the most
and I say we- if those of you out there, don't feel that way, I'm that's great
I'm happy for you in it and it's not constant, hopefully, but what working with the heart qualities does is. It gives us an opportunity, but one for hope. You know we need to have hoped to move forward if we are sitting in the despair and the pain and the tragedy all the time. It's not useful, and so when we even have like a little glimmer of others upon
ability for change. So this is where I would say to really use our matter and mindfulness practice together, because we need that constant check in what's actually going on for me
now. What's going on for me right now, when I hear that, what's going on
me right now, when I'm in deep fear of the outcome of the election in own and were putting a whole lot of weight on this one particular election,
and I'm hoping that people are also really paying attention to all the other smaller elections, because there are places that we can really put our energy and excitement? You know for applying our Mehta practice to somebody we live with, or for applying it to our global crisis. We can still utilised in the same way right. It would still be the same practice and there are times when sometimes just saying the phrases. May I be happy, may I find ease you know it's a wish. It's a wish far south, like I said, is not a magic pale. It's not like Son Lee, where bypassing all of our uncomfortable experiences and everything's better, like that's, not what we're looking at
but it's a wish for ease. You know a wish for freedom from suffering. I wish for safety like. Is that guaranteed? Absolutely not. Can I wish for that for myself and others, and within that wish lies an operator
needed a really care. Then why not? You know smart Aleck, why not like
if you got to lose, you know we have a lot to lose F
only move into to fear and hatred never like to lose, and even if it just
comes down to our own mental health, and
being a just and when a harp on the difficult person and is not to be morbid, but it's just that I have a sense. This is gonna, be one where a lot of questions will come up lines of of the audience. I know we ve covered this a little bit. Writing bears going back to you because I have this suspicion that people are gonna, be thinking well, these stakes in this election or show.
hi existential that the eye, if I'm sending unconditional love to the people with whom I disagree,
that could render me passive, which is exactly what I don't wanna, be
when the stakes are so high? How would you answer that yeah? So I would say wine.
Send the unconditional love to ourselves so practice with that for our sanity, for our ability to cope for our ability to you know cause. My plan is not to not exist any more after that
action right. My plan is to exist and to continue to do whatever I need to do to bring joy and longevity and
peace to my family, my friends, my communities and all the people that are surrounding me. So I'm hoping it's not a demarcation plate for people, whether they're gonna, keep loving, are stopped loving. I dont want people to mistake. Mehta love kindness care for passivity, it's absolutely not if anything again like I said, I think it's probably one of the fear. Sir practices. Do you know cause if walking down the street with
fists quench an angry face and all that's going through your mind as the ways that that political party did wrong and I hate them and it sucks,
and I'm never going to be happy again right. It's just not going to serve humans, it's not going to serve greater humanity and our evolution. If these things come in- and I have a lot of sadness and grief and worry and
I acknowledge that I'm not saying not acknowledging that I'm not saying it doesn't exist, acknowledging it and saying our aid to Anna, let's put the Vienna pedal to the metal, now
because I care about, and I love and I m friendly towards this planet and that people on it all I can really share about this is my view of it. You know, I don't really have an answer for everybody and how everybody-
gonna hold it, but what I am going to say as we need your love. We need your fierce love to get through this and fierce hatred is going to destroy us further. So it's not passive at all. It's actually quite strong arms. I went to encourage that for people
not about being stepped on. You know it's really about showing up fully cause showing up with anger or fear. Is a contract did not as useful way of creating change, so you can strongly disagree, but also have a basic benevolence for the people with whom you disagree. Is we talk about how to practice this in the mind?
in our formal practice. How do the rest of us? You know who may have a family member or friends on Facebook or whatever, with whom we disagree? How do we take our practice off the cushion
into the rural world and interact with these people when most of us, unlike you, haven't, been practicing for decades.
What are we actually bring? Some?
midge of matter into these interactions during this fraud period of time, yeah yeah, you know,
It is also where deep wisdom needs to step in, and you know that is an aspect of the mindfulness practice that a lot of you know. You're listeners and people that, like this podcast are already doing so. Wisdom tells us when and how to show up right.
so, for example, you know I needed to write a letter back to somebody that kind of offended
me and pretty much dressed men I needed to send a letter back to them
and every time I started to write it. There were so much vitriol, hopefully fit it. Do you know what I just really wanted to take em down? Add what my wisdom said was. You know, maybe have somebody else right this with you, somebody else that has a little more space,
from it and somebody that can help me de escalate, and so that's what I did
and so I got to put in my pieces, but they kind of took the stab off of it. They took the real like harmful pieces off of it. So really
checking into why you're doing what you're doing- and this is where the mindfulness practice, like I said, comes in Rio
handier like what's going on right now. That's really going on right now do even have the capacity to be in the
same room with his family member, or maybe we should avoid certain conversations for right now. Are there are certain people? I just don't have certain conversations with, because I'm not interested in fighting all the time,
No, what do I have to prove? You know that old thing of do I wanna be right or do I wanna? I forgot the second
so I went to laugh at you, I want to be right is always want to be rights. I forgot second part, but you don't just that way
What do you want your life to look like, I feel, like a very simply comes down to that. So, yes, with those family members with that friend with those people that you wanted to
Blocker, whatever on social media, somebody's gonna disagree with you at some point in life and if the ito they ve not one time, multiple, multiple multiple times, and so how do we hoped that? Ok? Well, I care about my son
so much under hung about me, but I'm also using it for us. I care about myself so much that I'd rather not walk around with that toxicity and my sister
So maybe I won't bring that up today. Maybe we won't talk about that today. Maybe I don't need to change you so that I feel better today and it you'd I've watched Fan Jones like one of the things they he does that I like this, he went into the households of people that were voted.
In a different direction, just to listen to what they had to say. You know, and a lot of conversations were like these are low.
Bing family members, these are people that really care about each other. These are people that go grocery shopping
and cook food and go to work, and you know we can really, like I said, come
a garage somebody and put like a demon mask on them pretty rapidly, and so, where are the places that we still care for each other? Where are the places that we can meet? Where are the places that we can agree?
I have a conversation and maybe wisdom. Right now is telling me not to go there. It's a really gets a combination of metaphor yourself, metaphor, the other person and mindfulness
what's appropriate at any given moment, and so yes, as it goes back to what I was saying before, picking up on your pointing to the DE self interest here, the
the kind of enlightened self interest here. How do you wanna live? So let me just pick up on the this difficult person
There's a category in practice where you picture somebody difficult and
and send them the phrases, maybe
happy may live with these, whatever phrases you choose or wherever you're being taught at, how do we tightrope?
because a king I mean as and has a here teachers give the advice like you don't want to pick
Stalin Hitler, you know you you wanna, go super difficult bain for
Batman whatever it is. You don't want to go like to like the comic book. Villain ores,
what you will recommend, unlike like in the in the would you say in this political context, if we're
try to use matter, keep ourselves saner that we picture people. We
disagree with on the political stage or on coal who has of noxious opinions Earl? How do we do that start again with setting yourself up for success start with somebody who pushes an edge a little bit by doesn't inspire
more hatred. So for me I'd, I remember who I started what I started with the difficult parts of myself right, so I started with the parts of myself that you know. I wish you weren't there cuz. We know if we could just make something disappear. Everything would be better rice, that's our diluted, thanking so I started with the parts of myself and wished those parts of myself.
Venus and ease and freedom so starting their helped. Me then move on to somebody more difficult and again,
keeping in mind? It's not about us thinking that we're gonna suddenly change how they feel right like
They get very easy to say. I don't want them to be happy. I just don't even want them to find peace and ease. Why should they? You know they have their terrible, their hurting all kinds of people? Why do I want ease and peace for them?
You know. Nelson Mandela always said. If I had stayed angry with my captors, I would still be imprisoned, and so when we're freeing.
South swimwear, sending better you know, and even the term sending gives a false sense. What, but when were practising metaphor, a difficult person, it's a really again check it out, like you'll, feel resistance, you'll, feel resentments. You'll feel blatant. Like tension pain shutting down these,
all things to pay attention to. These are things to get close to, and no and not change yourself for, since its very often also call the purification practice, because it brings everything to the surface bright
how's us so sometimes when we have a lot of hatred for a difficult person are there's a difficult person in our lives. Oftentimes we just want to shut it down and not think about it. Right will just be like not they're, not gonna, think about it, they're out of my life, what this does again a courageous practices that brings at front and centre. You know I love the phrase. Grass can grow up through a crack in the sidewalk right, so we might think that were over this person, because we don't attend to the relationship. We might think that
I'm fine, but then something comes out sideways right, like anger, comes outside way somewhere towards somebody. You actually do care about, because this person has a hold on you. So let's say you ve had a really bad news
stay and there's all kinds of information. That's making you just feel out raged
and you come home and your wife and child are the recipients of said rage right that happen, such that's. What happens because its living in us, but its misplaced? It's not well placed so the matter practice is helping our minds. Are hearts be free from that rage or that outrage so that we can live in a space that has a lot more equity, a lot more peace, a lot more, you know gentleness and ease it allows us to live in that way and once we're living in that way. Again, it's it's known by the people. We come into contact with its just it's a felt thing
people feel safe with ass people feel heard by us. People feel more alive with us when this is what we share. So if we are allowing somebody that we hate or somebody that is difficult to control, how we are throughout the rest of our lives than that's problematic and it's definitely not liberation, so this type of matter practice allows us freedom from having to carry the burden of that distaste or hatred or version for this difficult person on a technical front, you mention,
that some people ask you how I don't I don't want to send this person. May you be borne generates the wish that this person be happier live with ease or be safer, be healthy and the way I've kind of, because I'd sometimes do experiment with sending
doing the practice for a little while experiments and, as was sending mattered, to be even
lego figures with him. I deeply disagree and I kind of
refrain. In my mind, the happiness I not sending the wish for total victory, I'm sending the idiot
be happier if they were creating harm.
The great happiness I wish for them is a is a more constructive role on the planet. Yeah, that's fair and there's still a little settled tee to that. That's conditioned UNESCO, their stairway
guy! Oh, I could maybe do this if they stop to doing that thing that they do so. Quite I mean I agree
your point is just to clarify my mind: I'm not thinking you know if they change extra. Why policies more just like that happier person would if they were happy or they would
grow up in a different way. I'm not thinking about specific policies is just that if they were actual,
Happy as I understand happiness
and I don't mean like a victory dance in the end after youve owned the others.
I mean more just like your really come from a place of your cup as full, so that you can be a helpful. That's really what I'm coming
yeah, I'm absolutely. I agree with you. I don't know you shouldn't be like an asterisk attached. May you be
be as long as you support Senate Bill five, ninety nine right right or any easier,
we have to also be careful about any thing. You said this, but one of the things that's popping into my mind is careful about what we think happiness looks like or is for somebody else, and this is one of those huge divides. Obviously, right now is this sides version of happiness and this sides version of happiness or this size version of violence.
Besides version of violence and the sad thing about putting each other and on team bestower, you know this sort of comfort
Mason bias that we like to use a lot like. Oh you agree with me, so I can like you like. You can be on my team Unix. We all agree and think the same, but
some point that person or those people are going to have a different view about something else. You know
and then they are going to be off the tea, but then a new person, it's gonna, be on the team, and so it's always changing were pretty much seeing at all sift to the surface and so much division. We can't do it any. We can't do it anymore, where extinguishing ourselves and our possibilities. This is a deep self reflection matter.
A tape, self reflection on me now and again not want to criticise ourselves for not wanted, then be ourselves down further by. It really does ask us to look at. You know what still there for me that I haven't processed or whether why what am I afraid of
so the next episode we're gonna to be talking to the revenue angel, Kyoto Williams, about the another of the forum of ours, which is compassion so as you hand off the baton here and he words of wisdom yeah.
Well, I ain't all for one
the other? You know I've been thinking about this. You know, there's that phrase that's always thrown out. You can't hate people into love.
but then I also need to ask myself what can I really love somebody into love and that's just an interesting sort of co on.
Me right now, because sometimes you really loving somebody and we still can't change outcomes or control them in that becomes a very painful and useful need for compassion rate are those times, so people are still suffering no matter how much we love them, no matter how much love we show them
still gonna be suffering. So maybe that can be answered for mere, not not necessarily answered by discussed so that I can listen to
whilst a pleasure to listen to you and thank you for doing this really appreciated YAP? Thank you.
much for inviting me to pay tax to Joanna for kicking off the series with me as
mentioned up top or to be dropping. You episodes in this election sanity Series every Monday during the month of October and on wednesdays
the up to our usual Michigan Awesome mix of deep Dharma science and the odd celebrity next week we're to speak to the Reverend
angel Kyoto Williams about compassion.
She's gonna build on Joanna's thoughts on loving kindness and ban describe how compassion is different and eminently doable. She says
and by the way, eminently useful at this difficult time, and
I have more information about how to sign up for the election sanity. Meditation challenge on the ten percent happier am soon especial thanks this week to the team, who work so incredibly hard to put the shooting.
Other Samuel Johns our senior producer, Marisa, Schneider men who came up with this whole idea. They shut out numerous issues, she's our are
found designers are met point and and
on your Sheikh of Ultraviolet audio
Maria, were tell us our production coordinator and weed
I have a lot of wisdom from Tpa colleagues such had been revenge and point May Toby enlist Levin. While
on the tv h tip? I would add some new names in this week as these are the folks you're helping us put together. This special podcast series in then becoming challenge the meditation challenge. The auction sanity meditation challenge in the app so some names Jade West in june-
a Goldberg Crystal Isaac, Matthew, Hepburn, Julia whew, Nikko, Johnson Out and Bryant Josh Berkowitz Clia stagnating Lizzie, Hulk, Zuleika, Hassan Conor, Donoghue, Derek Haswell, even brightened back and many more. Lastly, I would be remiss of I didn't think
my comrades from ABC News, Ryan Kessler and just call him
Will? U you on Wednesday for an episode on current
screen life balance and once you ve achieved scream life balance, and you have a little bit more free time how to actually fine thing.
To do that are genuinely fund for you, our guess, Catherine Price. It's a great episode! That's on Wednesday,
Transcript generated on 2020-10-10.