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386: Sitting with Chaos | Zenju Earthlyn Manuel

2021-10-11 | 🔗

Very few of us relish chaos and disruption, but they are facts of life, given the nonnegotiable nature of change. In this episode with Zenju Earthlyn Manuel, we’re going to talk about how to tune into the value of disruption, and learn how to sit with the chaos. 

Zenju Earthlyn Manuel is an ordained Zen priest, holds a Ph.D., and worked for decades as a social science researcher and development director for non-profit organizations. She is also a prolific author.

In this conversation we’ll explore: what to do with the unknown and not having any answers; the power of a “sip of silence” (her term); what she means by the phrase “death as a doorway to tenderness;” how she defines tenderness - a word that can easily get bogged down in sloppy sentimentality; and what she meant when she wrote “I'm not advocating love as an answer to all of the ills of the world. Then again, it is just that simple to be love.”

Content Warning: There are brief mentions of assault; spiritual, sexual, and substance abuse; and racism, including a recent incident Zenju experienced herself. 

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is the ten percent. Have your bike cast down Harris Hey hey very few of us. I believe relish chaos and disruption, but they are facts of life given the non negotiable nature of change. Today, we're gonna to talk about how to tune into the value of disruption and learn how to sit with chaos. I guess his Andrew Earthmen man well she's in ordained, then priest she holds a phd. She worked for decades as a social science researcher and as a development director for nonprofits. She is also a prolific author will be covering a few of her books in today's said rising to talk about what to do with the unknown
and not having any answers the power of- and this is her term, a sip of silence, what she means by the phrase death as a doorway to tenderness, her extraordinary story about her unusual route to becoming as an priest, how she defines tenderness, a word that can easily get bogged down in sloppy sentimentality and what she meant when she wrote the following lines. I'm not advocating love as an answer to all of the ills of the world. Then again it's just that simple to be love. So, let's talk about here heads up. There are some mentions of assault, spiritual, sexual and substance, abuse an racism, including a recent incident that does Andrew experienced herself before we get to My child was Andrew, one item of business, great news
you wanna hear more of Andrew, which I suspect you will. After having listened to this interview, we ve brought her wisdom into the ten percent happier app where she has recorded her very own teacher talk. Teacher talks are bite, sized recorded talks, but ten minutes or less available inside the ten percent happier app featuring many of the teachers it you know and love from this podcast download. The ten percent happier today and click on the pod casts tab in the EP. and dangerous talk, which is called it's ok to be afraid, we will get started with Xingu Earthling Manuel read after this. If you like me, you're feeling really cooped up right now, all I can think about is when I can go on my next vacation. I don't care if it's big or small. I just want to get away when you're ready to travel. You should check out price line, Save you up to sixty percent off your favorite hotels and they even have exclusive deals on flights and rental cars. Price line makes it
super easy to find a great price on your trip. They say every trip is a big deal and that so true, especially right now so visit price line to get a big deal on your next trip. If you're, like me, you're feeling really Cooper right now. All I can think about is when I can go on my next vacation. I don't care if its beggar, small, I just want to get away when you're ready to travel. You should check out price line and save you up to sixty percent off your favorite hotels and they even have exclusive deals on flights and Rennell cars. Price line makes it super easy to find a great price on your trip. They say every trip is a big deal and that so true, especially right now so visit price line to get a big deal on your next trip. Sandro, with one Manuel welcome to the girl in the morning after wherever you are there,
noone. Where I am yes will you and I were chatting before we started the interview in we're just talking about how the world is a pre tumultuous place right now, and you have spoken publicly and written about the value of disruption. Can you describe what you mean by that you have I've talked about it and I also have gotten in trouble for saying it and it gets com using is like what am I trying to say. I am trying to get people to accept suffering in some way. That is not really that the intention of the teaching this team- for me of looking at disruption as ah you ball, meaning that it is the place in which we change and transform that we as form in the midst of messing s so laugh or going to transfer
but they wanted to be nice and neat and clean and painless and all of these kinds of things and my variances. It doesn't happen that way at all May I my life, the things that have changed have been when I've fallen off the cliff. Let's say in quote: when I hit the around so I learned that, oh my think, when I was in my twenties, I began to notice that oh life just keeps going trouble key, happening. This isn't, isn't, isn't gonna stop, but of course I didn't accept it. So went about trying to change things in my own life and change things in the world, and I would get frustrated and disappointed and I'm sort of like these times. Some people feel like moving backwards- are standing still were not moving ahead. Are these kinds of things, and so, when the disruption?
It doesn't necessarily mean that we are moving backwards, are standing still. I actually feel that there's something dynamic going on in that's why the disruption is happening, so it like an earthquake right. The ground shakes there's some kind of dynamic movement our action in the earth s causing you know an earthquake and and One? Is that right here and just sent out a prayer to Haiti in the midst of the last or quick? That's what came up for me just and moment. So I want to do that. So as a person who was raised, disruption- and I was part of the Watts riot I was in person- doing things I was near and our living near it that when we went to the grocery store there was the national Guard with their guns and everything. That's how close we were to it. There was his always try
in my school there were riots, you know and things arrays. There was all kinds of stuff going on. I myself you now have been caught up in some pretty snarly incidents, and so you always wanted things to be done, like no more racism, no more pressure, no more hate. No more anything, and, of course there is always the aspiration is always the van but most important. I know that if something stops likes We don't have any more racism less to say that we have no more of it, that means something else. It will take its place. We don't. what it is so there's always something While we have so many movements napping, that's wonderful, because Allah his movements and climate change. You know movement around police brutality.
Men around you, know racism movement around poverty in all these different areas that are happening, and we could go crazy, running off trying to make sure all of that gets. You now cleared up and taking care of that kind of our attitude to fix it. But mainly, I feel like disruptions are here for us to transform within and without so that width. If it changes us within, it will change. Going on without the more and more we ignore it. I think the more disruptions we will have a sometimes I feel, like I told her friend business. She felt that sounds so fatal. You know, that's fatalism, men, that's not! What I'm saying is what I see
and I think, we're at a really point in the world. Not only our country where the disruptions are getting more intense and they are increasing and their more often cause. Something really is trying to wake us up, not us wake us. We think we can make our cells up and we can to a certain extent, but there a place, that's unseen and uncontrollable by the human being, and we have to the stamp and then allow things to change the dynamic of the disruption to changes in with we force against it. I think we keep falling back into an old place, cause the disruption becomes, a wall as. to a more poorest are malleable barrier the call that we actually can go through. We can actually go through these disruptions and it doesn't feel like it often, but So if we are using this, that disruptions
If I use all that has happened to me, then I can contribute to society from having those experiences in. Which most of us are doing anyway and having you know, come through them is where all my poetry. All my other writings and teaching my showing up here to talk on the pod cas has to do with that. At the same time, everything was happening to me. There was a transformation, also happening to me so why we're in this dive sometimes were also in light it, but we do No, so some people will. I want to build a flight die. You know, so that can cause problems too, because they are both at the same time, Beth
Get someone gives you a coin you, so I dont really are dollar, I don't and nobody gets coins anymore, if not even about oh, I don't want that that dollar, you know, but I I want some money yet so kind of light. You can't you have to take the dollar to get the money and deal with everything involved in the dollar, everything that there is involved and attached to the dollar. So that's how I see disruption is actually of actually begun to wheel at a period Thomas. My practice. I begin to stop suffering the suffering and began to actually enjoy. It Even while I was in pain and in tears, traumatized everything. Else, but I knew a new and I still no cause I'm still in a diver,
always in a dive that some things coming through that disruption or darkness for me and for us in everyone around me and us. So I know that best way, change happens, that's away. Transformation happens, lotta casualties. Along the way our? Maybe I might not make it down a dive. I won't make that's guarantee right. I want one of the guys and I'll be gone all long they'll be all these dies. All of this turmoil suffering and it's to be used like Father, it's mud. We know this: it's the mud for the Lotus flower, it has to have murky nutrients and that's the way our lives are
I can imagine some people thinking you look we're listening thinking why I don't know how to stick with this. We in this dive. I can't get comfortable with it. How do I do that? You know this is have to have what's club beginners, my right here. You heard that of, and I always try to walk in that way of what was it like one, didn't know the Dharuma Buddhism When I didn't know, nation Buddhism are then Buddhism just trying to like try to flush myself away that kind of arm. Conditioning spirits, air conditioning and when that questions ass, because I know the majority of people have not been on that path, a path, Dormer Buddhism or even
the so quite a few people feel in the middle of chaos. They want to start a meditation practice. I in some way discourage it if its very new to you, because it's right now, you're systems used to dealing with chaos in the way it has been dealing with it. The moment before the day before, when I started sitting meditation, I only did five minutes a day and over the decades ago, to me being able to sit at long long retreats. Eight hours a day that took decades, So, starting out at five minutes is a lot like one minute's alot. One minute is allowed to sit still in, silence, are quiet just to breathe. Take a breath in and and I would say just do that. You know in the moment just try to let go
for a moment of all the the news. You know, you're reading our hearing, do not read as much to lead. Some of the conversations that we're having just for a moment. You can always go back to the conversation, but if you take some time to just stopped, in just three then and breathe out as long as you can, even if it's a minute, that's a lot a minute or two minutes then when you start to engage in the world, even if its cutting the onion, that's your next engagements now or talking to someone Fran our partner, the phone. It will have a different tone just with one or two minutes of sitting, because you will be speaking from your house
art and not with swirling in the mines so will most of the people we here talking are even other pike. there is a lot of swirling in the mind. Even for myself, I had to come and sit in it in, he prepared after swirling around. I had gotten loss coming here, yeah these kinds of things and I had to really work at from driving to sitting here with you to get back at the breath and too be able to speak from my heart, because I have a lot of ideas. I am most of us. Do I'm well read it. I have a phd, I'm a researchers. I look up everything though I really have to work. Hard to allow the body to lead me on this path of life and what people say What does that mean you, this reactor aegis response,
to everything you know I try to see. What's in my gut, if their sphere, I don't start to analyze the fear. I just note that there is fear I go. Go there stairs your friend fear and then I just have a few breasts with fear. We have is like having tee with fear, you brass and there There goes down someplace else and then I can go back, but then the fair comes back a keeps coming back, that's its job to keep tapie me. The cylinder reminding me of something about myself, that's our inside myself! That is bother, so you know, and that's kind of sitting still does it lead you see what bothers you and I know a lot of people. Ask me you know they say I wanna be com Can you tell me how to be calm, I don't have to answer to their. I really sometimes I'm joking bud
You really can get some teasing herbs and extra help, to calm you the help during these times, and I think there's no problem with that. If you know you, you ve gotten from some, when you trust you know professional herbalist or someone place or doktor? Were you there help your nervous system? You know slowdown in this great time of trouble and turmoil, but where I'm speaking from is not from that place, cause, I'm not a doctor and a matter of professional and the healing arts I'm coming from that. It is important for you to know. The context is Xyz in then meditation unzip, meditations, very different to than our meditations. So I'm coming from bad place, you can understand mad, whereas a sit be still just be quiet that
not what every tradition does and that's not all that Zinn does either we do chant and walked away, do walking meditation in different kinds of things, but I think I'm just offering from this base of barring there's, no psychological physical problems with you that you need to get other help bore then I am just inviting this Daily Sippar Tea, which is a super silence ever saw. Often throughout the day, are whenever you can just a sip of silence. You know you can wait for those phone calls that are coming through those texts that are coming through. They can wait a minute or two innocent remarkable, because then it might stretched a five or ten
and then you like wow, okay, you start to notice that, even though there's a lot of chaos there's a lot of chaos, you're creating yourself to on top of the chaos that's being imposed and also not to try to get out of you know, try to fix everything to make a paradise for us to live in our for yourself to live in, but two to use the trouble of living. The trouble of life is all there is really and if we don't use it, then we're not living we're, not even engaged and I've. I've done that I've tried matting, Kate and it's a weird life. When you dump engage in, I don't mean you have to go and engage in movements us up now engaged Miss Allison equals go out in March at you can do. That is not what I'm saying anyone can
that but just engage in the moment to be present with the pain, the suffering just for a moment if you can- and some people need help with that, that's why don't proscribed medicate, you mean medication or meditation either one. I don't prescribed me. The one case or meditation and best, because it's not for everyone. Meditation snuff, is actually for a very rare group of people, a very small and rare group of people, those who are seeking those who are open to a quest and Corey up what is this life and how am I living it? Who am I and getting no answer to none of it at all, assist the process. Now, there's no answer to those questions, that's that rare group is willing to live in that ambition.
eighty, but those who are using it for result, as I am not against that, I wonder what kind of results there getting. I know it's a lot of science, research going on now and there just coming out with what we already know, which is to see what science does it. You know it, which is good at some people made that hard core affirmation does written down in words with some numbers is quantified and qualified. I was a researcher, so I understand I did a lot of social science. Research spell it's important to document, but it doesn't have to answer no one and nothing has the answer to anything. Isn't that scary forward. So what are we left to do them just be?
not trying to find answers and fix things, but be in the discovery of things we are to continually discover. So when I meet fate, would if I meet you next week, I will have to rediscover you and you rediscover me, but you I can't say why can't I know do now we have to discuss ass, it yeah, I know damn we had a really good talk together, but we doubt and so continuously we don't. Even if I'd known you for twenty years, there is always something unknown and to see the beauty of that to see the beauty and sacredness of the unknown. in our lives, and so when I think I really know something because we're all very smart and I get their place like yes. I know that already I've heard that before you know and Buddhism, I heard that teaching before and then, when I look at it again something new
about it comes to mind. That's the beginners, my something new about that thing, that person that idea that movement comes new to me and I'm very, like surprised of it, you know I had been doing some work with someone around boundaries and it was very you know some semantic based or psychological base and then up pop. In the middle of that this idea of spiritual boundary cause I started. Looking at impasse causes a lot of sensitive empathic people, including myself. Today, where is the it there more sensitive and more impact, because there's so much going on so I said, oh, my gosh, there's that spiritual boundary as well in all the years. I just never put it all together that way, so there's an integration that can happen in the pause in ended discovery of
things. The reason why, when I really feel like, I know something I want to go back to that, I think about I really don't know where I came from like period like the human being and none of us now? We know do. We know physiology of biology and we have all those answers. Science lets us know where we came from and how we got here. but we don't know where we came from, we don't know why we're here whatsoever, are we going to rather this? What is the purpose, and we don't know where we're going, and going all of us that is amazing to me to be base with this. known. It could be a dilemma. At all following us constantly or it could be a place of discovery, all the way all the way, all the way to the N Steve jobs? I heard that dying, and I really like that. You know this thing he's that they said he said he was like Billy dying in that moment.
And I know he's a researcher because a wedding created and he's a visionary, so he was dying in his last moment. He said oh why hail, learn that arouses lay ok I'll following state. Where were you when you know He's, though how they were just felt tat, he was still in that way bill that helped him to be a visionary. He was still in bed to the moment. He was dying to me. That was his greatest moment, not when he created apple, but when he did died and say. Why does is greatest moment to me so I haven't forgotten it much more. If I conversation with Zanu Earthen Manuel read after this hello Tpa listeners when it comes to tools for increasing our happiness, obviously
meditation is a big one, but it certainly not the only one. For me, another crucial tool has been therapy and that's where our sponsor better help comes in. If you go to better help, dotcom slash happier, you can have your individual needs assessed and be matched with your own licence, professional therapist, it's safe, private, convenient and quick. You can start communicating with your new therapist in under forty eight hours once you ve match You and your therapists can send messages back and forth schedule, weekly video or phone sessions all without ever having to sit in an uncomfortable waiting room to be clear, this a crisis line, its professional counselling done. Early online and its available all over the world. Better help can help you start living happen life today and as a tpa listener. You'll get ten percent off your first month by visiting our sponsor at better help, dot com, slash happier too over a million people who have taken charge of their mental health, go to better help. Hd Lp, dot com, slash happier something
were all missing right now is travel just getting out of the house out of the neighborhood and going somewhere new somewhere different it doesn't have to be somewhere crazy, just somewhere that isn't here when you're ready travel. You need to check out price line, it's an important time to save and you can get huge savings on travel when you book with price line. Price line can save you up to sixty percent off your favorite. Hotels They have exclusive deals on flights and rental cars too, because when you get a big deal, you feel like a big deal, whether you're planning to meet up with old friends finally made up with that new family member just looking to get away for a long vacation price line has covered visit price line to make your next trip a big deal. You ve written very movingly about death as a doorway to, and the word used his tenderness.
I use that word with a little bit hesitation because as the kind of word that we have a certain type of person, I'm not gonna name any names, but is initials or Dan Harris might hear. We're tenderness and end like just be tempted to overlook it because it seems a bit. Maybe let me get my card or something like that However, you are you write very powerfully about tenderness. To so I I'm giving you a pointed question here, but I am interested to hear more about you, since you brought up death and how it can lead to tenderness. And what do you have in mind when you say tenderness, death, No matter how many times I have been at the bedside of people who have taken their last breath is a profound. Moment. An inside me. I feel the most authentic and the most open beam.
I can be. I don't even feel like I myself in the moment myself, the where describe and define myself. I just feel like him, like a b that could be human or anything, and I just watching the last breath in the sacredness of and the way I have no tension in my body at the time and I feel very soft in the grief and the tears while paying for, I feel very soft, like I could be a plant energy or some it's so soft and I don't feel myself that way every day. Every moment I you know, I feel tat sometimes enraged. Sometimes whatever frustrated id go watch something on tv and then I get frustrated with what they're saying and doing. Ok
This continues. These emotions are non stop, but in death, when I'm have witnessed there, the emotion deaths there is grief, sadness, sorrowed could be done There were some, it maybe even fear, but there is this just a softness that I would like to how more every day so that even when I engage in the world are in whatever there is too. Gazed at my own life that I do from this place of gentleness and and softness now. Does it mean because your gentle, our solve that you can't be?
powerful and strong, and whatever else you feel tenderness is it you can that it doesn't mean you can't be that it just means that when you take action, your taking it from this very open sacred, slow could be. Gentle could be rough to place their open your eyes What is it that opens your heart? This is tenderness. What is happening now many of us are going through tenderness and the tenderness could be where you're just caught in emotion, you're just suffering or could be the tenderness, your paralysed some people very paralyze when something make some vulnerable. They get paralyzed cassettes, mostly from trauma and other times when they have pat paying, are suffering, but Then there's is very powerful, liberating tenderness, where yours,
feeling all the emotions you may even have some paralysis, but there some way in which you are still present, any engaged with the tenderness, and I think Tick Mannheim says it like. when a baby's crying how my there is tender with their baby, our guardian, our Father, who have as guarding that baby. There is this way of touching into the yeah your baby you're cry here: tenderness, you're, paying and motherly way. early way or ass, a prayer way whatever you. I think you get the idea whether then trying to get rid of it here with different things. You know, maybe substance, abuse, sexual abuse, archives, spiritual abuse, ok, the things we do to come away from this thing were feeling. So I came to the
Word tenderness, through my name Xingu, which is a diamond name My whole Darwin AIM is act. I an ocean of wisdom and then do means complete or total tenderness. Ass would send you mean, So the names given in the Dama, our names. That are your essence so it's not a young man. Only really assistant essence like you could be sent you do here is in essence, and so this I could name is a name. My teacher said that you work on in your life. The first name is how they people see you. It is usually associated with nature, and my teachers now pass that son Zan K, Blanche, Hartman and went on her HU, as I'm speaking so when they set my name's xingu in the ceremony and they sat and complete,
tenderness and everyone everywhere that so nice then when I tell people I said the second name is what you're not not I didn't want to use that word. Send you when I got it, I didn't use it. I kept trying to use Akai and my teacher was against the Kazek I supposed to be informal and that's usually formal Darwin, and these are her, which she had been taught eventually a woman. I was working. She's, a divine, are actually in african sand? Goma, south African sang Goma, she said you, to use. That name then do you need to start using it, because I wasn't I like, one. Very well! That's what my mother, namely Earthlink, I love, and so I said, ok I'll, try using the issue, and that was the process of like
send arising, ah the oppression and wounded miss him pain that I have been dealing with. Since I was a kid being, assaulted beat up all kinds things have happened to me being turned away as it still going on. I just had a recent incident right here and Albuquerque at a winery. They would not serve me one of my pirates motion Abraham. I, my at my face want to serve me simply because your black and a female I had no idea. I was standing there waiting for it was a wine tasting time acts who is waiting for the tacos outside, but they said when two through the winner so I went in any way an ice was, waiting there does nothing just me and the person the retailer
standing there and he just stood there and I just stood there. Now is waiting awaiting and, as you know, that's usually map gave a liner may run right up to you with the glass and what do you want? Dazed and I could have been too lot of em. You now live in California. I now live in New Mexico, so I waited mess it well. Will ye have sherry, asked taste that, and so he described the glass. he gave me about a date of a teaspoon of sherry. You get tastes the sherry in of a teaspoon, so I just say: ok, maybe this his demeanor fell just take the sherry it's ok and then a whole group of people Kay and they were all white and he were right, overtook, hello. How are you doing welcome to body everything? completely. Not what he did with me, broader the glasses. What do you want in doing? What are you won't? Let me know- and I was still standing there
waiting for him to get the Syria ask them to buy. He then even want to make the sale that's how bad it was I could take them in our use of take those kind of things and crumble succumb to them. I could take action. Toward the winery, bring all my friends down to work I d write a letter, so I didn't not do anything and I sent them up a picture of me and my then ropes ESA is just like a very quiet passive. I guess protests detail happen exactly how it happened. I didn't add anything to it as a sit exactly how it happened. Did they get back to a no? No one? I'm sorry! I'm sorry that I haven't that sounds no one has got back and there's nothing to be done, but I wanted to let them now, and I did say I hope this is now all your employees
and I know what a glamour level but that one person definite was representing you. So I think these kinds of things can and make you tender emotionally in the moment. I wasn't. I didn't have time to process it in that moment, really wanted get my tackles, which was the reason why I came away at this new truck out their nuclear. Heaven is really wonderful, different kinds of tacos and I wanted to try tackled Tuesday s fear and every time I feel my stomach flop are my heart jump in those kinds of experiences with, I say, was very in the body. Wasn't in the mine, I couldn't think it out or anything, but when I feel there in my body, I just feel that, since nation, and I allow it to process itself in my body. I Take it to my mind, so I didn't go.
I'd away write the letter. Could that would take it up? There do my head, so I just stayed fit in the body. I know how to breathe with it, though so there's no harmful. Now I know how to breathe with and allow the sensation that's happening. That is, older than me, is ancestral and then it came in to me too, as I grew up, as who I am happen has been happening and it's going to continue to happen. Even if racism is taken away, and something else comes in
the play. Let's say now: I become the superior being the planet. There's something with that as well. There is a sensation in the body. That's got to be, not feel good, and so I think that I just over time that kind of thing what a paralysed me, but I was still tender but still able to engage in, take action and not be He pulled over to the curb I it murdered by it. I took care of my body in it because I knew it was affecting my body with bread and stillness and breath and stillness actually went, and I didn't even leave the wine react set down right there that I was able to watch him with the other group by just set there, but I was him why in him, I was watching me
I didn't, run out either. I one so bad a hold onto this, because that very thing that I am healing, but if I keep rang from that thing inside me that I'm healing, I will continue to let it be about other people why people blue people purple people. It would just be like that all the time, in order to deal with my own tenderness and to transform that tenders. The same Let's talk about in the beginning, you know having their diving, lift and flight. At the same time, I allow that to happen, and so, confusing for the mine, so you can, the mine into Gaza mine I am I am. I am I down. In my view the man gets too involved and what you're trying to feel so as has been adjourning for me and now have accomplished it now that for liberating you now tenderness that I would like
you have my teacher. Let me now are yet to do. The ceremony was so funny is cause she so like your head student and you have to do questioning kind of ceremony in the and of your service as it has student, and when I got to the end he said I don't think your tender enough here. Everybody like you, know two hundred people and I thought it was good because she knows me scene that I wanted to accomplish tenderness, I'm gonna to this name. I'm gonna become completely tender, ITALY tender in a powerful, liberating way. Where that, when I express myself, you will feel it, you will know it, they will know it. Folks will see it that's external button. I know that in within me,
that process is still going on and will till the day I die. I know that she sent me on a course of his engine on a path of that and for her to sit a person who is black and clear and has its various as in all over her life. Every day was profile for her to invite tenderness into my life as a path of liberation, not as a wounding or in a paralysed place or an emotional place, and I just really haven't still sitting within and we'll still sit with it. A lot of people say why I don't want to be tender, so I'm not reading your book and and that's fine
I know that they are the very ones that are not able to use their own tenderness and they're afraid of it. We are afraid to be that way to be vulnerable. It takes us a particular person and path and development. I think to do it. I don't think everyone can- and I doubt suggested for everyone, but I do presented as a possibility that there is a possibility in everyone's life to have a laboratory in full life, not dictated and legislate it and give, in, but one that is nurtured in gross within you with your meditation with your prayer. No matter who you are, you not feel like. I have had a lot of training and suffering public
at home and in the world and in there's no way to get away from that other than to get away from people or die, and I chose to be with people I'm glad you make that choice. Personally, you made a few references to some of the difficulties experienced during. where's your life only if you're comfortable with it, I be interested to hear more about that and how it ultimately lead you to send Buddhism being then Buddhism, I would have to say, had nothing to do with ASEAN. Are Buddhism are built, are any of the terminology around it does the same thing. I was very much a crook Can I still feel it in my blood. And I I went to church into my thirty's. I was very It's not at Nana event. Jellicoe Kristen. I was raised in a church, a crisis that has that aspect in it.
But I was always curious about life in there and I think the thing that happened to me were so many places in which I almost done I'd like I have a lot of near death experiences I think more than it should have, but to be up and death so much. You know so close other time in my life, I think helps one develop a strong sense of tenderness as a powerful medicine, not as something that is to be ignored or for weak people. I would you define tenderness. I know how so for always comes first, if those very vulnerable. I want to use the word open, but that's always so general to me like what is that and I feel like its being completely engage with
once heart in the moment where one is in the moment where the heart is so allow people say well, would it you're enrage, that's not the heart, that's the mind. If I'm enraged it's mine, I know that I was in grade so much that it might be getting gear that teaching, I remember, being and raise- and I talk about my Sancho remembers- I suspend it myself from the song. I fear I kick. I got it, Oh the anchor mecca who are lower because I knew if I stay our hurt them, even if I was speaking nicely something what or it may be, a half because of my enrichment. You know it is because it's like you can see it in people's face and then I could see their rage because they have hurt me too. It has been mutual. I can see their rage saw really.
studied it and I'm still studying rage when I say that I'm marrying books, I'm I'm allowing I don't really know what it is. I speak. The word solely I don't really know a tenderness. Is I can say. I know I'm in my heart is a state of being in my heart and that car is some who play or heart consciousness. So each part of our senses right is a consciousness. I consciousness. I consciousness knows consciousness knows Oliver assesses, have a consciousness and the heart does too, and so on, working heart consciousness. Ah, the time I'm much, I feel like I'm much better at it cause I'm able to bring myself through breath, grew song premeditation through chanting through stillness back to the heart and to stay close to the earth. The deepest peace was my credit.
journey with the earth that book that I wrote that came out December two thousand and twenty, and I wrote that book in a way that people would experience tenderness. You could say if pieces part of it, I didn't want people to actually to walk away with like they could actually quote me or gang knowledge that it wasn't a book of knowledge and quoting me as it did with the way of tenderness, are sanctuary those other two books, and I was wondering if anybody would pick it up at all
because it had to mean that touch of tenderness in it and at a time when everyone is going completely the opposite, if not intensify rage. So if they see the word peace that they might not want that, but the peace I'm talking about is where you still engage. You still have your rage, you still have whatever, as a human being, I might still be part of movements, but at the same time there this poetry of life much more of a conversation with Zanu Earthmen Manuel read after this something, I think we're, all missing right now is travel just getting out of the house out of the neighborhood and going somewhere new somewhere different it, doesn't have to be somewhere crazy, just somewhere that isn't here when you're ready
travel. You need to check out price line, it's an important time to save and you can get huge savings on travel when you book with price. Fine price line can save you up to sixty percent off your favorite hotels. They have exclusive deals on flights and rental cars too, because when you get a big deal, you feel like a big deal, whether you're planning to meet up with old friends finally made up with that new family member. just looking to get away for a long vacation price line. Has you covered visit price line to make your next trip a big deal. But let me through a question at you and I will see what happens, I'm a little worried because it's a big question, but will see what happens accounts for its new, as, with apologies, there's a sentence or to that you wrote two sentences debts
caught my attention here. It is I'm not advocating love as an answer to all of the ills of the world. Then again, it is just that simple to be love. Yes, I have a little pamphlet in its free Amazon card, be love, and I have, I think, the poems in there to being being love And there was part of the tenderness journey without naming love, but having experienced where I have felt love instead of trying to capture that and give it as a thing our object or take it away, withdraw from people. I wondered what experience would be to be love em. What that would look like, I think, be: Luvis has sold more books
we discuss is free, but has no doubt been downloader from Amazon. More than anything I written and I was exploring, I kind of like love as a deep desire. How we feel like its outside are. We have do something to receive it are that we think that our hearts can be closed and we can close off to people and things in places, but our hearts don't clothes they never close. So Even- and I thinking were closing off this feeling of love, you can call it love even in that we have,
maybe anger and rage or dislike of someone even to spend time to have that there's love in it? Otherwise you wouldn't have anything. You are just be numb. Love is, I think, about babies and act right about that coming into the world and I think they come to teach us. We teach them, they show it. The soonest, thereby everybody's all over that baby, mostly even if their parents are somebody's all over their baby, somebody in the world in their baby unconditionally. Without a word gets its being, its essence is being born. Is teaching a slow? The baby teaches the parents in it the parents are unable to learn. It then there's trouble and that's how I try to be love is,
to remember that experience had been around a lot of babies allow people died on, went in human around a lot of babies, I love being around children, love children, love all the way up to when they sassy about teenagers. I love the. I love the fastest, actually teenagers more, but I love them and what they teach us. You know they're so profound in their language and their being, even when they're angry and ugly and having a fit. You know that I just there's just something about them that cannot be ignored so below. Is to be an just in a direct experience of being in the world every moment without judgment, without being an expert without making a project to fix something, but,
being yet not knowing baby does it know, which once the mother of the Father they just looking, there's a practice and good ism of watching people die, but I think it's a grey practice to watch babies and watch them look around and see if you can develop. That kind of seeing Just looking no judgment, no, nothing, not knowing nothing. You hear voice you here, you see, a percentage is being lost.
Which will allow space for, hopefully the experience of love whatever. That is not love itself, but an experience of love cuz. We don't know that either really we're just here practicing every minute. It's really nice to sit with you for this time today. I really appreciate your time and just enclosing. You mention a few of the names of your books, but can you just list them off again for folks who won who want to dive in, and
maybe anything that any other resources you have out there that people might want to access yeah. I think, if you're a beginner around Buddhism, I have a book called. Tell me something about Buddhism, but it's is very different. All my books are different than what the title says. So you're not going to get the same answers as you may get in other books cuz. I do use my life experience. Even my experience in being in church with got me. Smee and Jesus is all in there. It's all and tell me something about. Buddhism is to QA kind of book with illustrations that I did. There is
the way it ended. This awakening through race, sexuality and gender, and I always tell people you know in case you get that book. I didn't write a book about dharma and rice. Where are some books? Are that way? I wrote a book about awakening and race and sexual and gender were gateways, so everyone has a gateway, find your gateway. Read the book find your gateway could be illness could be. Death could be any it's not about come, raise our sexuality or gender, and then there's sanctuary and meditation and homelessness, of course, in a spiritual sense,.
And then I wrote a book on the sea after that. Okay, the deepest piece just came out December, two thousand and twenty deepest piece contemplations from a season of stillness, and I actually wrote most of that here and in New Mexico on February eighth will come the book called the shamanic bones of Zinn and it's the answer looking at the ancestral spirit and mystical heart of a sacred tradition and what I'm trying to do is bring. I really could say Buddhism, but I haven't studied all Buddhism side to side sin, but I'm trying to bring back our you know focus on the the sacred rituals and ceremonies of Buddhism.
How I feel we only have a tiny baby finger nail of transmission that there's so much missing. You know, because it is ritual ceremony, is very hard to to transmit and trans myth that to make it a transmission to the world So I feel like we're missing a lot and I talk about how colonialism affected the Buddhism we practice and how it affected the indigenous japanese religions in in traditions, spiritual traditions, Buddhism impact.
Them a lot, and then I have a novel coming out next year called the the waters of less bar in it takes place in Haiti that one's spiritual, spiritual, magical, historical fiction, you're busy Buddhist. I love it. Thank you again for for doing this is great to meet you. If only virtually am. I really appreciate your time. Thank you again for inviting me and what we say, connected. Like was worth thanks again to send you a great meet her, they show is made by Samuel Johns Gabriel's Ackerman DJ cash. We are Justine, Davy came like a memorial, we're tell and Jan point engineering by ultra violet audio was you on Wednesday for a brand new episode Matthew Heparin
Transcript generated on 2021-10-11.