this is. The ten percent happier Pike S DEN Harris hello, hello. I get how maybe friendship. Might not seem like the most pressing psychological, contemplative or geopolitical issues Yeah yeah, I haven't friends of doing fine, just teach me how to meditate Harris. If that is your attitude I know that a guy named the Buddha disagreed, there's a whole passes in the Buddhist Scriptures or suitors about friendship, with seven strategies for friendship, some of which were going to discuss today it is also a famous story where one of the buddhas disciples came to him after a fascinating doormat, Discussion with, embodies and exclaimed. Friendship is fifty percent of the path, the a correct him and said no one hundred percent of the path these by the way, are not exact translations anyway. Friendship,

Super important, the Buddha, but it is clearly a dying art. The number of close friendship set Americans have has declined over the past decades in ninety ninety thirty three percent of Americans said they had ten or more friends in twenty twenty one that is down to thirteen percent and ninety. Ninety three percent said they had no friends. Now it's up to twelve percent. My by yesterday's hey Johnson she's, a former modern dancer who's been meditating for more than twenty years, she's graduate of Spirit rocks four year teacher training program she's, the author of a new book that has drawn praise from some of the whose names longtime listeners might recognize Lama ride, Owens, Jack Cornfield and Ruth King. The book is called radical friendship and in it, and in this conversation, It draws on an ancient tax, known as the meta suitor, to offer actionable strategies for on this generosity and other key ingredients for friendship, we talk about some of them

specific strategies, including give what is hard to give any other challenges of generosity. Do what is hard to do and keeping secrets. We talk about what Kate means by a relational practice and what that looks like in real life which about what for ship has to do with enlightenment or liberation, and how, radical friendship can have societal ramifications. Before we died in one exciting order of business meditation can often seem like a solitary practice in the movie, so you see a character meditating there often sitting alone on a mountain top wearing loincloth wind blowing through their hair. My colleague, the meditation teacher Matthew Heparin, says meditation is in fact a team sport if you'd has spent considerable time studying many millennia is worth of ancient wisdom, teachings in community with other people. Now is help. You learn how to make those teachings work, for you by launching a new show, a new podcast where he could

his meditate or through real life struggles, his new show is called twenty percent happier. on each episode of the podcast. You listen in on an intimate conversation between Matthew and a guest, like on this show the guests or not gurus, there lay people rank and file meditated, they meditate yet but their lives are probably a lot closer to yours, then say the Dalai Lama's Matthew helps each guest unpack what's going on in their practice, where they you're stuck with working or not working, thus leading them toward events have insight that can really transform their lives. For yours. As you listen n. I call this mindful eavesdrop. You gonna learn from Matthew and his men tease how to understand what is happening in your mind and what you're supposed to do about it. The twenty percent have your bike isabel

but exclusively in the ten percent happier app so to listen to twenty percent happier download the ten percent up your app wherever you get your absent and tap on. The pod casts tab at the bottom of your screen and, oh that's, a lot of math, but I think you can figure it out anyway. We'll get started with Kate Johnson right. after this when it comes to what truly matters at mega food, it's the power plants and nourishing soil for quality ingredients to help grow a healthier world they do what matters to them. So you can do what matters to you like being present saying. Yes, or maybe even taking some you time to listen to your favorite podcast and all making the most of each moment. Big and small mega food supplements for what matters. if you're like me, you're feeling really cooped up right now. All I can think about

When I can go on my next vacation, I don't care if it's big or small. I just want to get away you're, ready to travel, you should check out price line. They can save you up sixty percent off your favorite hotels and they even have exclusive deals on flights and rental cars price line makes it super easy to find a great price on your trip. They say every trip is a big deal and so true, especially right now so visit price to get a big deal on your next trip. Johnson. Welcome other job, I think you someone's round me down it's a pleasure. Likewise, so give me said Why and how you came to this subject of friendship, principally something I really cared, That's something! I've always appeal. My life is something that I missed have that as you know, and learn from those mistakes, a boy and its, then I was really excited to discover. It is actually an essential part of the the buddhist path that I love, someone

and I entered into through the doorway of meditation, exercising my friendship as its habit for this book. In response to my experience in a buddhist meditation centres where we were trying hard to to think about how to respond to social justice issues and to become better, the word that we're using the term allies to racial justice issues to environmental justice campaigns and even getting approached by labour organizers kind of asking about you. What would it look like Ferko dismayed as heaters to show up on mass to support social justice issues in the way that we have, for example, black Turkish, showing up in the state capital to rally I'm half of labour, for example? And so there is a desire to harness the energy that we were spending cultivating wisdom and cultivating compassion and turn it towards removing those principles into action and, at the same time we were having some

difficulty both internally and those communities like some

one another in a really intimate nothin, take way, and then also some concern about, was that look like for a predominantly way, predominantly privilege, Buddhist, meditation or mindfulness space to to show up or people who didn't look like that and have an experience, and how can we do it in a way that when then replicates some of the harm that has happened in terms of the cause of the conditions that brought my mouth gap and racism about so in that search for you? How do we do this? Well? How do we do this better? How do we create the kind of authentic and meaningful relationships that we want to have both within the community and also between communities? This this buddhist teaching, when there's a friendship, seemed like a really amazing clue on how we might might do that. I'm assembly fantastic pointers about what french it means in practical, everyday sense and elevating this status. I think our friendship beyond

the had kind of relationship to an essential relationship and one that can really move us forward on our path deliberation near both individually and in and collectively. I was surprised we in my earlier investigations of Buddhism to see how much there is about friendship as well, because, as you said, it does Canada like a nice to have maybe even sort of slightly whimsical subject, but the Buddha took a very serious view. Member like struck you about that are what went on you're learning about the best path. We came across a seeking the thing he said to his right hand, man, Slash cousin, another, came to him and said: Durham, paraphrasing erotic, I'm gonna get that I don't think I'm gonna get the exam, quotes here, but something like hey, I just had a great conversation. It was awesome. It struck me. another said to the Buddha that friendship is like half the path in the Buddhist knows a hundred percent it about

yeah. That was one that move me too, and when that felt monsieur, I see no like. What do you mean? Is the whole Patrick? I thought it was If heating in ever greater ivory longer minutes, sessions. No, and that would be progress that teaching some. They met automatic curious about the potential of friendship I think it becomes even more important to me now where I'm met in life Ass, a enemy uncared, and I feel, like my link than my own meditation sessions dwindles into windows sinking in these days and so any opportunity to practice in a way that relational is just I'm so great for those that for those opportunities, because it's really what I have now- and I know that many people can relate to that too. So what does it look like when you say to practice in a way that relational? What does that mean?

when the rubber hits the road. I think it means that every encounter with another being could be an opportunity to practice, and I love that you say when the river meets the road, because I think there is a way that its maybe easier to understand that conceptually and there he will in the dark world that we point out that way of practising or understanding in others. This many phrases are coming to my eyes, the human imagine that every being you meet could be. Your mother was your mother in a pathway, and there is the notion that anyone we meet could be our teacher and it's our job to figure out how there is the teaching on their three jewels. The three areas of refuge at the butter offered ice. You places where we can find comfort and support when things feel confusing are hard and one is

press them. Another idea of awakening and the other is the Burma, the teaching themselves and then there's a fund which is the kenyan new practitioners and, depending on how we look at it. That could also include everybody. I think what it means is that it's possible to utilise and expand upon the qualities that we develop our meditation practice, including my place of the body, including awareness of the thoughts and emotions as their arising, including wise reflection and that its possible also to use the values that we have, as can navigate and systems are compasses relating with our human being. So if we, prioritize and we value patients, value generosity, revalue truthfulness

that, in the cornucopia of sensations and experiences and emotions that can guide us, especially when things get difficult relationships, knew their beautiful on their enriched my life and they're, also sometimes hard, and when they get hard, that's them where I find it hard to practice it's about right, don't steal my body at the moment where I forget that no how new centre myself and laughing, and my brother just moved to fully, and he was very fond of doing something: but irritate me and then, when I got arrived at a maybe like I thought, your meditation teacher but yeah. It's just it's it's easy in a moment of beet ruling in with another person to forget that we have access to all these twelve. So I think I think that's what it means is that we can be in the practice of intentionally, remembering it's not uncommon, play some experts to for them.

moments where you need the practice. The most you forget to do it. I knew I feel that way too. I feel like I didn't just start practising, but I am also like I dont think my journeys by any means done he's got interpret them. I M practice, but I will say one of the ways that I I feel myself maturing on the path is the alchemist tapering more and more into the Dama. They think what I mean is that allow the Burma to expand and and What more and more of my experience and I know the hermit path, it was, moreover, a superficial relationship where I saw him annotations centres in part, because I want to meet other people, humanity didn't you know, and I thought that many tailors were were cool. One would want

friends with them actually, and I know that earlier on, I related to my meditation practice and may even going to british retreats almost like an accessory. You now is like having a nice hamburger with equal pair of shoes that it was something that helped me if your self esteem and almost look good to myself, right, but it wasn't something that we mention when the member who throughout or when you know when I really really needed it. I had a sense. He did think. Ok, I'm gonna handle s myself The Burma can hand all you know the smaller problems, but this big one, like I gotta figure this out on my own and, I think, the longer. I practice, the more the less that makes sense and the more I think in moments of being really confused or really hurt. really angry early side. I notice more and more willingness and ability to say you. May I see this moment starmer

I think when, when that happens and relationship, I think that the radical friendship move you known to have the confidence that there is something the learned here. Am I willing to use my awareness to mine this experience for ways to become more free and to grow used? The term radical friendship which I know is Tuttle the book? Can you define that at least is as you divide, it knew TAT the book has really based on the bulletin, his spiritual, French, Guyana meta. The reason why I called a radical friendship is really because of what I see as their the implication of practising this kind of friendship in our modern world that there's something about the commitment of sharp bar on another person's liberation.

Had a son has the potential to help us role, not only spiritually, but I think also socially and politically, and the hope that kind of friendship is the kind that could help us really bridge differences in a way that could allow us to stay together long enough to effect a truly radical social change, and I think it's also the way that to practice these principles inside of a relationship may allow us to feel what it's like to be free together and how this many experience of collective liberation, even though we are not there yet, I don't think anybody can look around our Robbins,

like this is a world that is truly free and this liberated from greed, hatred and delusion. That is, you know, had the obstacles to our true nature, as human beings nurture humanity removed. So that even were not. There were not there yet, and I think it's radical that we might in sight of our relationships, develop liberated spaces where we can feel what it might be like, but on a small scale, and I think that that feeling can also be a compass can also be a way to navigate all of the conditions that would have to come into place for us to have that sense of liberation be more widespread in terms of policy and culture and things that nature. So it's not just about a practice that might be good for your own spiritual development and maybe even good for the well being of the people around you You see. This is something that the latter is up to helping us have a more just society. I hope so. I think that I think it's worth a try

I had this discussion with a farmer friend who you were just kind of course, the question Is it true that the but his teachings about? work at their own mine ladder up, as you say, scale up in a way that could inform how we think of how society its liberated and there's something in me that says. Yes, I think your information for us there, I think, tying up. The only thing that we need, but yeah. I think it's repertoire much more. My conversations with Kate shouts and read after this seven last here we just bought and moved into a new home, and one of the things we were looking for in our house I was finding a place with good natural lighting, especially when you work from home lighting can really impact your ability to relax or to focus that's what Hunter Douglas and their innovative window shade designs come in. Not only do they ride superior installation, keep you warmer in the winter and cooler and the summer bonus points by the way

conserving energy keeping your utility bills low, but power view. Technology can also be set to automatically reposition for the perfect balance of light morning noon and night I meant to rhyme, but I guess I did visit Douglas Dotcom, slash ten percent happier today to take advantage of the season style rebate savings event. That's Hunter Douglas dot com slash ten per cent, happier for the time savings offer expires December, six toothache, on twenty one again, as you may have heard. I recently left my job at ABC News, to focus full time on this meditation side? Hustle. That's the Good NEWS, the bad news turns out somebody's gunning for my job and the competition is steep His name is Matthew, Hepburn and he's an star meditation teacher who is now going to take the insights you get from my show and double them.

ass, he new show is called twenty percent happier and it's a brand new podcast that offers deep wisdom for imperfect people. He talks with the rank and file meditate or who, like you, are endeavouring to apply their meditation practised, everyday lives and you're gonna get to just dropped on people who are willing to be super candid about issues such as. Workings idea, the inner critic, difficult relationships and the pains of parenting so, whether you're a fan of my show or you're completely sick of me percent happier is gonna? Give you the best of both worlds, twenty percent, happier is available exclusively inside the ten percent happier app download the app and tap on the pod casts tab to start listening. You mentioned before the meta suited this section of the Buddhist Scriptures, where the Buddha talks about friendship in great detail and

I know within their their seven strategies that you lab raid upon in the book chapter by chapter- I'd love to certain some of these, so people get a sense of from but a moment. How can you actually do what you're talking about Coon skip practical and technical practical until they part. If we try to do here. The first strategy is give what is hard to give that doesn't sound like a ton of fun, but what you think the Buddha Mountain where you go with it in your own mind as you contemplate it to me, it points to their meetings, ass, many of which there are also many in the dark mine which the Buddha said to have top people even before meditation as the practice of generosity, because it helps liberate the clinging mind when we get, and I think that part of what this is also saying is that we can also act our way into the right stated

by giving with deliberate difficult for us to give a gang of the edge of our comfort zone in the book talk about three of my own kind of hard to give us, because the Buddha doesn't say tell us what benefits for us, I think is encouraging us to consider what's your for each of us. So I talk about money, giving a resources and as a practice and talk about that time, giving time taking time and how we might relate to. That is a serious practice so with our friends, and I talk about the giving of unconditional love in the form of attention is now a limited resource like the other two, but it can feel like bad example, those three or four ones you struggle with. Personally definitely yeah listen with money. For me, often it's just not feeling like a enough, and I certainly

I have more than most folks when you look at the other grandson, those things and also there a lot of people who are really visible to me, who have much more it's hard, because I haven't talked about this, I'm just going to like talk about it again, thrift in time, I was talking to amazing organizer, who I really admire, and she was asking me my my rates, but I charge torpid or innovation and so I gave her a re enemy said, but look I really broken it working. So what everyone can do is is awesome is fine for me and she was like do nothing ever again. I was just going to say that to wait and see, why won't you know it's worth it to me. There's a lot of value in Britain with you and she said Kate. She was like you and I are black women. People feel and to our labour she's like let other people enter the gift economy. First will bring up there Oh god, you know that

He did you a solid there. She did you a service, and I'm glad you said that causes the first thought that came to my mind in them mentoring work that I have the good fortune to do mostly within the journalism world lot of my men. Tease are women and it's a type of thing. I hear women whether their women of color or not, say quite frequently the phrase it often comes to mind for me as a book that was written by Mika Brzezinski, cost of morning audio and MSNBC. She wrote a book called no your value for women about negotiating their salaries in negotiating the workplace generally at once, had it pointed out to me that the modern workplace was created by men for men Oh, I think, knowing your value is just to credibly

yeah. I think the practice of generosity is both giving an receiving and now I'm when which is appropriate. One of my explanations as to be able to give a ten percent of my income to people on causes. I really care about, and that is kind of a stand in for a people he said do or some people still deal were. Churches or other places of worship is set aside timber science to give to their spiritual community in terms of time and the giving of time. I think it's all related to money, especially in like your hyper capitalist system, they re yet another resource. I haven't pilecki, don't have enough and yeah. I just I think so many people I meet feel that way. You know, like you, may ask how someone is like I'm so busy. You know- and I saw a meme on so many other David said adulthood is so things are really slow down next week, every week forever

to pick up a simple, I feel out a grief actually when in this moment this thinking about be their friends. Yet I tabled EU that can be a day and how do humiliating? It is known to have the day so filled with activity there, even if we might be in earth my people all day long, we do actually have the time to Molly knew asked them how they're really doing and listened to answer actually there's a, but if my taken teacher, who I know and and really admire, my the Gomes and we connect it. I said you know, I waited, let attacked you again and she really busy, but we can find a time in ice, as can be seen on the excuses for her about why shouldn't have come in fact mean she said. I have time to talk to you. I actually set aside period,

the time of my calendar just for connecting the friends and others like you do she's like yeah. You know that's a part of what I see as my spiritual practice is making sure I have time to connect and disco for tee to call on the phone and that's her way of being a spiritual friend. So it's a practice- and I wouldn't say and women every week, but I try you know to keep blocks of time, they're, just fur having finer being together people and also noticed when I feel the pressure of time? I feel I can. I have time to be a friend in the way that I want to be. I try to ask myself: is that really true and then in terms of attention, there's something that I think is really radical about recovering them? ass if to choose where we attend in. I have I ate my ball. She almost a month all tiled home and also a twelve year old, and I find for them? Attention really is one huge way. They receive

my love and I have learned. That is why my kids is passing, there's like them, anxiety, you're some tension and I am not fully present cause I'm annoy, then it just kind of continuous that, like low level can and grabbing innocent,

you know and if I actually minded just put the dish down, turn my full body towards the kid and say in coming, and how will that for you today by really turned my whole body, it seems like they receive back and they take it in and then are good to. That's also been his teaching for me and parenting just how simple it is actually and how it doesn't take so much time to help someone. I love feel my love for them by giving the rifle presence. I think this rushing thing that you talked about a few minutes ago, and I use that word, but the sense of feeling time starved. I think from me that the feeling rushed and then not being a tuned. My life that's been a huge challenge, the anecdote and then maybe a useful teaching both involving Joseph girl seen their great meditation teacher, who was just at our house this weekend and at the weekend at our house, and this is as you met, Monday and you walk,

Monday morning and we have this together and then he asked if I want to take a walk- and I did happily with great sick walker them and then he got discarded at home and- and I remember so much the time I was spending with him. I was thinking well now, I'm behind you know, I'm by my whole schedule, for today's is out of whack and blah blah blah blah blah. It is totally getting in the way of what an opportunity to take a walk with Joseph Goldstein, and then the teaching also comes with Joseph go see wishes. He often tells people to see rushing as a kind of like Mindfulness Bell Ass, a sign to wake up during the course of the day I heard him say a million times: I rarely do it, but it seems like an incredibly good teaching in the times I have done it. Oh yeah. Ok, I'm rushing something. here I am missing something nothing good can come of this. It's just very helpful and love that at the next have either for both it, like you got the hang our Joseph firm again and again, the mindless Balin

Was this suggestion instruction when you hear that about when you know it's like I'm rushing when is the leading next wake up and pay attention or whatever you're, paying attention? Whatever happening in your mind or in the world right now same purpose, that a Michaelmas Bell would play on em meditation retreated to wake you. You're, probably missing something, and it bears directly, as you have been arguing on the issue, a friendship or your relationship to other people, because often you're too busy with the dish to turn your full body around to a twelve year old. Who needs your attention and not just you all of us so yeah it's. I found it to be helpful. I've not found- I have a profound ability to apply it. Well, you know comes in time by appreciating idea, I mean, I think the other truth is that is limited. Impress us bow. Our days are probably filled up with stuff. That is, it is meaningful. We think it is,

isn't as urgent as we think there is any thats really back. You know like this kind of manufactured sense of urgency in the way that it keeps us kind of humming. I heard from people who thought about getting this and or have got it but not started reading it yet because they are like war and when I find out that I'm action that could have a friend and like I want to feel bad about myself today. You know like eight, even the title is, can ensure growing. Like I'm, I gotta my radical May radical friend and isolating read this book so that people could like feel bad about themselves are compare themselves to somebody who's doing it better. Could I think, when hidden what we're doing by speaking no one's getting it perfectly right now, it's getting it completely wrong, but I think it's true there. we can't give time to everything. So there are going to be people in our lives. He want our time that we just can't give it to and then it's an option. To be honest, I think where it comes into the practice again was like to attention is like our Billy

As you know, are we actually making meaningful choices about how we spend our time are responding to other people's sense of like urgency in demand, I think fit there's something really interesting happening now, and the other side of covered the alike were in a labour movement that no one talking about the Hague are not not know. That's not true that Talking about it, you have people are saying actually manage to figure it out, and I'm not going to go back to a place that treats me like. I'm, not a human being get some of these seven strategies. We won't make it through all of them and that's why people should buy and read the book, but if we can get through a few of them, because I love talking about- and I think people really like to hear about what the Buddha taught said,

second, the seven strategies for being a radical friend per the Buddha is do what is hard to do so the furthest gave. What is hard to give. The second is to do what is hard to do. What do you make of that again? Independent leaves a space to contemplate in our unlikely, but what is hard for us to do anything it's too used in the doing to call your wise effort, which is, of course, one of the steps on April pat elaboration and also as an invitation to examine both what we apply. Our effort words like what is it that I'm everything answer if I've, but also what's the quality of effort and bringing to

and that there can be equally ritual wearing like how am I everything so doing? What is hard to do, I think sometimes could be doing more. I think it could sometimes also be doing less. He told, depending on what our proclivity in her hand a pattern, nor so in this section of the book I talk about just how hard it can be that even you touching the first noble truth. The Rembrandt if that sometimes friendships are heard, that they can break our hearts and that when we look at the ways in which friendships and relationships the unsatisfactory, we can look both at the person reasons for that. So our own tendencies to playing into crave a certain kind of relationship or not being present rushing like the kind of the roots of suffering that are about I own body, mine, heart system and the way that's been conditions, but we can also look out really

patterns as a former suffering. So the kind of what happens in the space between Us- and we can also look at the causes of suffering that come from systemic forces, which I think is from the hardest to perceive the hardest to do, is to come to see how those systemic forces are are present. themselves in our relationships, because oftentimes when we have relational attention that a systemic in nature we experience it, has interpersonal, so there's a sphere of equal. Why does this person have a problem with me? There may be in a personal reasons, for that, but is also structural reasons for that, but can be coming into play. The part of our practice can be too takes centre, where it is in that direction and justice eat. No. Does this suffering have a systemic route and then that there are no, what's with in terms of relationship in terms of friendship and rank or friendship, I think, is a practice of daring to

exploring feel into what is actually the brain in relation to feel like you have. I ever have experience when this to be free whenever the person arguer people, and what does that mean for me, you know what does it mean in terms of time of my body that mean in terms of the parts of myself, but I share the parts myself that I she private at meaning observe the quality of laughter between ass. You know what that means in terms of how I support one another. So I think that there are some elements of freedom that we can all relate to and I think but how we envision, how we feel free might be specific to each one of us in parliament. I hope this parliament will do is hope. Each of us tat such articulate. We know what does that mean in terms of my own freedom, in what freedom looks like with in mind

current friendships relationships and also what were the liberated? Can you need be like you now and to TED dared to dream back and then the fourth number truth is of course know that, where we get practical impractical and talk about some of the concrete ways in which we might navigate our life in order to cultivate more. freedom. That's that's how I interpret in doing when it's hard to do hard to do doesn't mean like awful, and in full and like unpleasant the entire time. You know, I think, there's that let hearted like it can feel good to do this kind of work, and I just wanna make a case for that in case anyone spilling exhausted much more. My conversation with Kate shouts and relevant ass, something I think we're all missing. Right now is travel just getting out of the house out of the neighborhood and going somewhere new somewhere different, It doesn't have to be somewhere crazy, just somewhere that isn't here. When your

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company and affiliates annual premium for basic liability policy not available in all states rate not offered in Mississippi New Jersey and Oregon discounts not available in all states were situations. When you say you talk about the notion of a liberated friendship. To me that a little like that mean attractive, but also hard to grasp what is mean for you, you have you ever tasted that, and what does it look like? Why think one? I think that your point to his like liberation can be heard described. I won't say, have like any one relationship, it's all liberation all the time, but I do have friendships and relief and certainly moments of my french US, where we feel free and I've been in community That's they also have their moments of like wildfire. When this moment it has to do with a ten

very kind of suspension of air. Will you know so in moments where within it, with a cover, three poisons our night activated and in that suspension, there's a phone and richness of relationship. is the natural luminosity of who we can be together is as human beings feels like it can flow like them hindered. I have a close friendship with someone we were working on. Has it together, and I noticed that are we had different ideas about the next step, to take basing kind of prickly like very sensitive, almost like when I suggested taking a different approach,

work that we are doing. It seemed to me they felt kind of personally offended by it too. There is a kind of like I could see their jaw getting. Staff in their bare throat may got little take as their words for a little like Turkey to meet and discuss my own can a conditioning experience I went send conflict diverse, but I I really hate it when people are mad at me, and I was feeling like oh gosh, this I just might of Wade making this person upset you, you know, I don't like being people feel bad. That doesn't seem to be able to communicate that, This is not about you. This is about you know, having had a different idea and one to collaborate and other way or about an idea back and forth, and when I know They brought another idea, this person recoiled unstiffened up. I start I sat bring my ideas and some kind of became Dicky s person like oh yeah,

Trey. Okay, we can do that, but I wasn't a full body gas and I was it- wouldn't bring my horses the work anymore, and so, as I became less engaged, they start to become a little bit more irritated where he's gonna cotton. This this unhappy pattern together and one day we're gonna meet in, and I can feel my body this well end up in a most public pressure. You know come from below an atmosphere. Look, I don't want to do this anymore and arm, but how coming out this basically, and as is the men I wrote about a little bit on, the principle of spirits are principally the butter said that when misfortune strikes, spiritual friend, more and begin a new quality of like loyalty, not abandoning and really noticing the

haven't seen me too, when something not feeling good just be like, and I do not for me their desire to escape, and so when they thought that pressure and are rising up in my flight response kind of coming here, my girl, how do I get out of this mass? It's like? Can I exit out of its products and noticing that decided to say hey? Can we talk about but about how our working together in a democracy and centre my intention not to avoid this person being set with me, you know, but to demonstrate my care for our relationship. and that, whether or not we were able to continue working together that that was something that was really important to me and they listened and they tore. We surprised me it still mysteriously me how this happened, because I was really bracing for you, my friend, to say like one. I can do this with you and I anticipated they would be really resistant and they were really not, and they were

but I share with me some of the ways in which I was community that I was unaware of name He died. Sometimes they have way of communicating when I'm excited about something that makes it feel like there's not room from anyone else turn to share what their exciting Now you know how the UK, let's do this this way, you know, love it and they are also able to really take responsibility for their only activity by the other side that conversation there is so much more breath and there are somewhat more space and there is room to play and enjoy Heather and creativity. There there's room for creativity again, it was like a huge burden had been lifted, and so I think you know, I think, wreck of friendship me practice some other different ways, but for me, that seems to be one that's coming of often for me lately is that there is something that I know needs to be said, and I am worried that it saying it will cost me the release.

Shep. What I'm discovering is that, if an honest- and if I do leave with love that doesn't have to be the case, that it doesn't have to be the end of our connection, but it can be the beginning of it a different type of one hour I'm an and what the liberation for me inside about is that I'm actually that about a show up fully and say what actually think you know be real with another person, hopefully not in a way that dismisses there. He added, he doesn't don't see them as a person to, but they can only be myself, and I hope that makes me spend them to be themselves to an most of what I fear y know what's happening. If they are better off inflation, it really feels like. I suddenly hatless, like my Jarley, says, there's more space under my arm pets, mice, my belly spreads out, like a really feels,

The wizard of when suddenly the world becomes color again, that's what stepping into a moment a radical friendship feels like me. Yet a great description. You definitely made what could be gauzy real? I hope so. It takes a lot of words, yeah, but those worth it ended. It sounds like both you guys did what was hard to do both of you and then the pie off. Was they your both able to be real with each other and that redound to the benefit, your relationship to you individuals and to the benefit of the project. I know that for me, there's something there are fewer things. Feel lonelier that being in a relationship with being an inner space with someone else where I I don't feel scene, I don't you heard or no one in the end, and I can tell their not they're, holding back to an certainly like there's kinds of relationships where its

The gesture of friendship to allow their relationship develops over time in a young just meet someone for the first time and go like bright to the depth of. Why here you exposing your deepest childhood wounding to one another and in a way that would be an appropriate. However, I feel like that's something I wish for myself. Less and especially within a spiritual spaces? My think there can be so much pressure to perform. A kind of Like nothing bothers me, it's all good, I want you know like this can apply said like benign a fact. I would love for us to be able to be a real with one another, even if that means being messy, because that's what freedom feels like to me, it doesn't feel like being like. Like a controlled. You know. Politeness feels like being fought.

Big, being foreigner means of expression being fond waving, their bodies being fallen. You know how we, how we are allow ourselves in each other to show up and that there is room for that within within what we call the spiritual world. I agree: I definitely agree. It are remaining time. Let's hit one more of the buddhas principles for radical friendship let us get down the list a little bit too, something, I think, is kind of intriguing, which is keep secrets. what a devoted the inviting keep secrets and how do you interpret them, whether one for that is that the Spitzbergen tells you their secrets and they keep your secrets and in this book I I talk about, secrets and not only as the details of our personal wives, and you know, I think we started again a bit like high, really feel when I really think I really am, and also the ability to expose

Bruce about our real lived experience and about things that need to change. One of the secrets of, I think, often gets cats in the communities that now I'm a pair of is like when we ve experienced harm in some way especially when that harm is related to new abuses of power privilege. There can be a sense of shame if we ve gotten, you know her or maybe I should have seen it coming and averted aid, or you know been tougher that when them for my feelings, have been excellent, been more exceptional of it didn't affect me yet, and so I think that, as radical friends, keeping of secrets is like what. How do we actually respond when someone's sharing their truth of us and its? Actually? Not you see sometimes to hear when someone's been heard. Our sentiments amendment hurt by us that happens to be the case

because no more time at radical friendship, of course be care about another person we wanna be hurtful fall. We want to be the kind of person who hurts other people, oftentimes of unintentional moment, didn't know, and even we might find ourselves coming to the limits of our capacity. compassion, meaning our ability to allow our open heart to be touched by our own or someone also suffering, and to do so in a way that we can remain upright and responsive to that suffering. All those things I spent three years in the domain of what it means to keep secrets like how is it that we receive each other's truth? How is it that we are able to listen to one another, and in that chapter I think they talk about some common ways that we use our natural capacity to receive one another national capacity

compassionate less name becomes hinder and are blocked. So I think part of practices noticing little blocks are bringing our living attention there and see if it's possible to dissolve them in and return to that. The state of openness and eight, I believe, are on board my. Do you think the Buddha meant and do talk about? because when I hear keep secrets what comes to mind immediately for me, as is being trustworthy, somebody tat people can develop their secrets to in and know that. You won't be passing along Willy nilly? That's true, I may think: that's it that straightforward interpretation. You know to be trustworthy and I think that developing the capacity for a compassionate listening is part of what makes us trustworthy. You know like beyond knowing that, where the kind of person that's not gonna blab. business all around town like knowing that I'm the kind of person that can actually

whatever you're gonna, bring to me and that you're not too much and your life is not too much interference and not too much whom I met there just enough, and I welcome them and again we're all working capacity issues you know, can we all do there all the time for everything a person probably not by? Is it something to aspire to something we could probably do more, than we currently are we practise? I think so, and I think happens when were able to better receive our friends truths more better able to hear what's important man what they care about, then we are better equipped to respond in a skilfully. away. So when we look at the practice of radical friendship at a larger scale, societal scale, I think, where heaping secrets but having a practical, compassionate, listening and deep listening Kimberly

you is allow us to listen in a way that informs our response and waited its most effective and most meaningful, so oftentimes you We worry about an injustice. There's this you no sense of outrage could this be, you know, can you believe this women do something right now and that women? do something right now, I think is more an expression of my own discomfort. Then it is a clear seeing about the what is my neck leverage point for change here and if I can ask the listen,

as the radical friend here what's happening and allow it to touch me and allowed to even break my heart without making it about me and stay there and that moment. Think on the other side of that deep listening experience, there can be a clear seeing of what the next right move is from me. That would be most useful in this moment, both in service of my friend, whose sharing this mean also in service of whatever. Can you means being impacted by you know? Whatever this friendship that there's for each of us, I believe, a right role in societal transformation, Pauline many right roles, you know and deep listening, compassionate listening receiving each other's truth and as a practice I thinking clueless into what that is, for us, because we're not gonna be on the very front lines channing yourself,

reason we're not all gonna, be you know on Capitol Hill lobbying for policy, I'm not all gonna be in the board room, making decisions that help people live with dignity in Ireland in a business like what we each have our own role to play, and I think that if we can learn to listen, better became less than merely to our friends, but can also listen into that. What is my work to do here, and how can I use my unique position in this world to generate more liberation, for everyone well said: induce, often not very self promotional meditation teachers to promote their books and anything any other resources you're putting out into the world just as a closing shot here so I wrote a book called radical friendship, seven ways to love yourself and find your people and unjust world it's available where books are sold,

and most my birthright narrow is doing so in teaching from that book and spinning. Let him think you're a big head, so not doing a whole, our public teaching now, but I am hoping to do a longer course around on the cultivation of radical friend starting probably in the new year, so I'm thinking something like something between them, color been like alarm, look an experiment with practices from but in their own lives come back reflected the people who are also practising in that way. So if you're interested They like that or just now I went up to you- can check out my website and fat from a meeting last and that's where you to let people know you what's coming next gave thanks very much for coming on pressure to thank you for having me, then he fur do. Thanks to Kate, I should say to practice cultivating radical friendship. You can check out the related meditations for this podcast episode

in the ten percent happier app. If your listening to this pod cast in the EP are ready, just scroll down to the related section of this episode to play the medications on friendship from seventy Selassie Orange, a sofa and Joseph cold scene, if you're not already a subscriber download the ten percent, have Europe wherever you get traps, and then click on the pod cast tat to get started. The show is made by Samuel Johns Gabrielle Sacrament, Dj Cashmere Justine Davy came like a mom Maria Tell and Jan plant. with audio engineering from our friends over it. Ultraviolet audio we'll see you on Friday for a bonus meditation from underscore for an animal