I don’t know about you, but there have been many times during this wrenching year where I have made my pain even worse by adding on layers and layers of self-criticism. There’s a notion that is deeply ingrained in our culture that the only way to succeed -- or even to survive -- is to liberally apply an internal cattle prod. But there is research that strongly suggests that this approach simply leads to extra anxiety, and that there is a more successful approach, called self-compassion. My guest today has been at the very forefront of this research. Kristin Neff has empirically demonstrated the value of self-compassion; she has shown that it doesn’t have to lead to passivity, self-absorption, or cheesiness; and, as you will hear, she has practiced what she preaches in extremely difficult circumstances in her own life. All of this makes her, in my opinion, a figure of incalculable importance. We recorded this interview back in 2019, and it contributed to a major turning point in my meditation practice and in my life. We are reposting it now because as we head into the new year, a time when many of us embark on self-improvement projects based in self-loathing, we could all use a little kryptonite for the inner critic.
Where to find Kristin Neff online:
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Full Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/podcast-episode/kristin-neff
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
For maybe see this is the ten percent happier pie cast of Dan Harris, hey guys at this point in the holiday season. Mail delivery and shipping timelines may not be on your side, so for a quick and meaningful gift. Send a gift subscription to the ten percent happier app to your friends and family were offering gift subscriptions at a discount through the end of this month, no shipping required. Obviously your gift will be delivered directly to your email inbox. You can get a gift subscription by visiting ten percent dot com, slash gift, that's ten percent! One word all spelled out dot com,
flash gift. Ok, let's do today's episode about you, but there have been many times during this ring.
in year. Were I have made my pain
worse by adding on layers and layers and layers of self criticism.
there's a notion that is deeply ingrained in our culture that the only way to succeed or even to survive
I've is to liberally apply and internal cattle proud, but there is research that strongly suggests that this approach simply leads to extract
eighty and that there is a more successful approach, which it called self compassion. My guest today has been at the very forefront of this research. She has empirically demonstrated the value of
compassion. She showed that it doesn't have to lead to passivity, self absorption or cheeses and, as you,
He or she has practised what she breaches in extremely difficult circumstances in her own life. All of this makes Chris enough, in my opinion, a figure of ink.
killable importance. I should say before we dive in here with that we recorded this interview back into. Doesn't nineteen and it actually contributed to it.
You're. Turning point in my own meditation practice and in my life, where
reposing in now, because, as we had into the new year, which is a timely,
Many of us embark on self improvement projects based consciously or subconsciously and self loathing. We could all use a little kryptonite for the inner critic. So here we go with Christian F nice to see you they can for doing. This other wanted to talk to you for a while, actually because I've actually writing a book about kindest right now, and I want to do a chapter about self compassion
you are the you are the leading expert so before we get to self compassion to I want it. I want to hear how you got interested in meditation in the first place,
it was my last year graduate school. I was finishing up my phd at Berkeley and basically my life was a mess. I I've had gotten out of divorce. It was a very messy divorce. I was feeling allowed shame I mean I was also feeling a lot of stress, not someone
about what I finish my phd but more after seven years of my life when I get a job into the job market really tight, and so I thought you know well, I've heard that meditation is, is good for stress and as Berkeley, so right down the street for me,
the meditation group. I was lucky the right down every street right down
street, yet in Berkeley so that you on every corner
equally, the one I chose to go to the woman leaving
Cuba is actually a tick. Not HANS. Hunger reason is important is because some meditation teachers mindfulness many teachers when it necessarily talk about self compassion.
We take the time. One thing this unique about him as he's really emphasizes a heart qualities of practice. Fisheries issues are viewed in reason, master and then doesn't talk. A lot about compassion. Full stop is, as I understand it, but he does in particular right, and so I started in his tradition and the very the very first I went. The woman talked about having compassion for yourself that you needed to actively
debate compassion for yourself as well as others and I m. So I was also learning mindfulness, but because my life was such a mess because I was such a mess, you know almost immediately. I saw the difference it made when I turned toward myself with this kind of kind, warm supportive attitude. I just saw my own expense,
It's really made a difference so and then I started practices more in the insight, meditation tradition. I think, because I am a scientists it, it just was a little more compatible with my way of approaching things, but with people like Jack, cornfield path with heart share in Salzburg, loving kindness. So I was always rule. I was all really drawn to the integration of you might say the spaciousness of mindfulness with the hard opening qualities of compassion- and I was I was fortunate because I was there and by practice in the very beginning- and that was about twenty years ago- dilemma just jump at undefined terms for vehicles able, yes, I am
You never know that we have a lot of experience. Editors who isn't he ever knew folks who are coming every week in once, you start to meditate. There are lots of ways to make lots of ways demanded an within Buddhism there. I would say at least two big skills were trying to teach. One is mindfulness, which is put simply the ability not to be accurate,
why your emotions yes like that and the other is compassion or if you're, if you're afraid, as I am of gooey words, you could just reach, translate that into friendliness just kind of us exactly cooler, more nicer attitude toward external
internal phenomena. Can I would cooler with warmer sure? Yes,
I mean I know. I know what you mean. I know what you mean, but yet for fair enough, so it sounds like you pivoted from the initials and tradition into what is the insight tradition, which is just another form of buddhist meditation. It's actually the school of trained in and rain stumbled upon teachers like Jack Cornfield Share in Salzburg, both of whom have written a lot about yes, mindfulness again, just being able to be not judge mentally aware of stuff compassion, which is
having in the knowledge, is not judge, Medley aware, but having a certain element of warmth in your word right insists on the mindfulness is aimed at holding experience in a non dutch mental manner, so the compassion is aimed at holding the experience or in a friendly manner, and so we have slightly different targets, and so both need to be practice that can actually almost appear to conflicts, sometimes because you accept your experience,
It is including the fact that its painful at the same time that you wishing yourself well and you want to help, and so it almost forms a bit of a paradox.
actually one of the sayings we sit like Disaze. We give ourselves compassion not to feel better, but because we feel bad, so you have to allow,
experience to be as it is. At the same time as toward the experience or because your friendly, because you care you do what you can to help so one paradox is since certain was Rebecca restate. I am also thinking
There may be yet another paradox. Probably at one paradox is you in my punishment.
Asian. We are not trying to control. I think we're just trying to see things as they are right see clearly insight tat, though the game you're, seeing of whatever is happening cry so that it doesn't on us right. But in this case, when you add in the compassion, lair you're trying to notice that their suffering there, he s and yours
try alleviated per se, you're, just sending warmth toward the suffering as it right you trying to manipulate you experience, because, if you use, can
harsh and try to make the penguin away sexual just another form of resistance. So you have to fully accept the fact that this is painful. This hurts, you know, master mindfulness validating in accepting the fact that this is really painful right now and the same time we give ourselves warmth and kindness, I'm so sorry it so painful there anything I can do to help and support myself. In this moment I, and so did the their targeted kind of two different targets. A bare do both held together and you know they say compassion and was in their two wings of a bird. We need both wings. We mean to tend towards ourselves. At the same time, we accept our experience are logically to ask you how we do this yet is also users will understand basic marvellous meditation, whereas pick the breath as our object. We try to feel the breath. Every time I get distracted, which will have a million times
we start again compassion, meditation or self compassion. Meditation involves a little bit more kind of discursive thinking or not discursive thinking targeted thinking where you are sending well wishes toward yourself, and you did this little thing where you said. I'm so sorry
in this way. Is there anything? I can do that for me as a typical western raised in patriarchal system guy,
think I think, I'm not going to say that right right right, where I have to do that, you don't have to do it. That way you can, you can give yourself like you know you can do it physically see what we're doing is really two different safety systems. So
debating the care safety system cuz as mammals, you know when we come out of the womb with the way we feel safe is by connection with other people right connection, love warm that's what allows us to feel safe, and so what we're doing is what kind of intentionally targeting the care system- and you can
with language. But it's true, the anguish, doesn't work for everyone. I'm you can do with physical touch so like
putting your hand on your body in a way that fill supportive, I'm you can just do with with friendliness like hey, it's ok in Kosovo,
Eddie. If you watch, he felt when it whatever works the languages, it doesn't really matter
with the languages. What matters is the attitude of caring and warmth, and that can be expressed in a lot of ways but mindfulness. It is not intended to be a stand alone practice worse, just about accepting experience completely as it is that the reason we practice
because we want to alleviate suffering right, and so I ran a key. We practice. We have to accept what's happening because we don't it's gonna, make things worse, but at the same time is really helpful. So, for instance, are some research that shows
teach people's himself compassion before they learn mindfulness meditation there more likely to stick with it, because what happens is
the mind start saying I can't do this, I'm so bad at this and starch. Judging you know, we start judging yourselves and although its it is, we want to accept that and you see them as thought. It really makes a difference. If you give yourself some kindness, oh, that that's kind of hard on we s. Ok, you know that the friendliness, the warmth human connection, an I do- people get confused because its self compassion, but compassion is inherently connected. The word compassion and landmines to suffer with
and so, when you give yourself compassion, is not really aimed at yourself. It's just opening up your actually becoming less self
issue here focuses less on the Self Andrews, remembering that all people are imperfect. All people suffer is not just me and that's where some of the feelings of connecting us come so connecting this and kindness and mindfulness. So three components least where think about it, make up the experience of compassion. I worry about
to literally how we do this, because it is that's where it s what I ve been spending the last ten years doing tat- and I can't imagine myself giving myself so but but before you, Bulgaria,
there. I don't want to get back to because I said earlier that there was a second paradox yap and you just touched on it in which is in mindfulness meditation, especially in the buddhist tradition being one
The goals they hold out, which is very confusing for people is that you will ultimately see through the illusion of the cell apps.
Lately- and here I am yet here you are talking about gas health, compassion, yes, yeah, that's right, and so it's it's confusing so
for instance, I was talking to one a buddhist teacher. He said
didn't even batter nineteen. Oh you just me inner compassion, if you think of it, as in wordly directed compassion, is supposed to just outwardly, directed compassion and, of course, compassionate is union directional inside and outside that. It makes sense that the word self is like a huge risk. Dick you dont need an actual sense of separate south to give yourself inner compassion. Is any
outside of academia used. The word heuristic lower vat rates.
but probably not easily. Satellites will cause if its. Yet it is the issue you swore, I think of it. It is useful to useful tool. We don't have to take a very serious. I just wanna congratulate you ve, they think being the first person mannerly. Two hundred episodes are not aware of yours,
no it's great naivetes anyway, the other there a lot of paradoxes that you know so
going back to, and I am really glad you're bringing this, because I.
In a way one of the big blocks, especially for men, to practicing self compassion and which is a shame because it's we know for the research is one of the most powerful sources of strength, coping and resilience we have available to us. One of the blocks, especially for men, is, it goes against gender roles. That seems too feminine. It seems weak. It seems floury right.
Or like just uncomfortable uncomfortable yet because men especially are socialized again expressing this disciple warmth and tenderness, outwardly even outwardly, yeah
even outwardly, but especially when you add the word self reminiscence awful woman's vaccine? For goodness sake, I don't know that I
that. I have a flat world is the first time, my first in all, our first and only child, I'm really
you're with him. Although I lay off like rough house with him and yes, I ask that thighs and all that stuff, but that's the first. I my life, maybe with cats, arson and dogs, that I've been really tenderness.
Although the cats and dogs but nobody's looking so the idea, the proposition that you have already are taking place here that I should say these were warm things that I wouldn't I never probably other than to my son, said out loud or to hug mice.
it just hard it's by it. But again it is, and you don't have an again you ve, you find ways of doing it that are more comfortable, for instance, so the Uti working a university of taxes,
it asked in, and so the long horn men's basketball team asked me to come in and give the guise of training. Burgo grey
I do I use the word self compassion ones, because its triggering there's no does not weaken the word something special about the word. I talked to
inner resilience and inner strength, training and so base
so when you're out there in your plane, you know what what mental
waste. You want in your head. Do you want to coach you saying you suck? You can't do it. You know your crap. You should be ashamed of yourself. I can't believe you mess up shot or do you want to coach the same? Hey, it's! Okay,
What went wrong with the work? We can do that I'm here, I'm supportive, so kind of an encouraging supportive kind voice. It doesn't have to take a particular form of the form. The kindness stakes depends on what you need a maybe what you need
uh huh. Maybe that's not, can be helpful for you that maybe you need you know just kind of a little encouragement or
understanding or just the little sense of acceptance right, an end, p
find their own way in the self compassion that the goal is just to be a supportive kind, encouraging hopeful, beneficial, friendly presence and see, if you, if the word
Venus works for you that that works for me. So, for instance, when an hour training programme for teens, we call it making friends with yourself, and so you can absolutely use that metaphor and you can think what would you say to a friend so it
I also think it. Let's say you had a friend may be one of your buddies come to you and he down, I'm so upset. This is happening or I got a cancer diagnosis or something like that. What types of things would you say to support your friend? That's language are probably works for you. Then you can try to use that type of language with herself. The language itself as unimportant, what's important is, is a feeling of support, encouragement and kindness. What about onward myself right? So am I note in a way this is what self compassion is exactly designed.
To address I mean this is helpful for everyone, but many people internalize he's ideas. It I'm not good enough. You no fly, or maybe maybe you rejected by your parents, so what its first of all? What the first thing self compassion does is tune into the pain of that, in a way that this color as hard right, if you dont like yourself and it's not about saying- is not self esteem self esteem, as I judged myself positively or a judgment,
of negatively or compared to other people and also compared to the people and self esteem really contingent is dependent on success. If you dont succeed,
self esteem dessert? She has come as a fair weather friend, so self compassion. This kind of more unconditionally friendly attitude just says you know: hey everyone's imperfect, that's part of the human experience that will one day we like to say as the goal of pride
This is simply become a compassionate mess. You still am ass, you do
you can but you're human. So by definition, you're gonna be a mass, but can you hold that mess with kindness with friendliness? Because if you don't, if you take it, if you take, is cut again, another paradox: if you
that your imperfection or messages. Personally, if you are done a fight with it as who you are, then you aren't seeing the whole picture because, as you know, when you really start getting into practice a reality of who we are so much bigger than this,
particular moment in time and in a way we identically. We find this experience into a sense of solid self
when reality. This is just what's unfolding right
and so you might say we hold this unfolding mess with great compassion and kindness and friendliness, and the work is important in an against going back to the full.
the ology. We are mammals right and we ve got.
Specially human mammals we are humans are born the most immature. It takes twenty five to twenty seven years for the prefrontal cortex to fully mature
in my case, is thick and merely yet I know- and I just make another five years for the kids actually leave home. You know and the reason that, because a human brain, so plastic and able to you, no change and evolve that that's, why were we wear such slow developers?
but physiologically we needed a system in place would prompt the infant or that you know that that the child to be safe by being taken care of by parents or p blue elders, you take care of them and that would also prompt the parents to take care of the child. So we have the very evolve
here, system is part of our physiology, and so we know again from the sciences when you, when you find yourself in your friendly towards yourself patch, is one way to do it, but other ways to do it as well. You actually
lower that the court has all levels. You reduce the sympathetic nervous activity and you actually activate things like heart rate. Variability
we actually toast and the dots haven't been totally connected. So but most likely you, your increasing oxytocin you're, actually activating this busy illogical system is designed to make us feel safe. The problem with not liking yourself, as is very threatening, you feel isolated, and so remembering that hey everyone's imperfect, you know it. It's ok. To make mistakes. Can I learn from it? What we find is that firmly supportive attitude as all sorts of benefits it increases motivation,
it allows you to cope so just just for an example, there was one steady, Donovan soldiers who have come back from Iraq and Afghanistan and actually seen action overseas, and they found the how soldiers creta themselves, how compassionate they were to themselves around that the real trauma they had experienced was a very powerful predictor, whether or not they developed PTSD nine months later, post, traumatic stress disorder and in fact it was more powerful than how much action they had seen so more important than what you experience alive is how you relate yourself in the midst of that experience, when it's
it's really traumatic or difficult, and so you know when people say self compassion is a weakness not for these soldiers at anything
again. To use a metaphor, if you think of life is a battle in some ways is challenging really
hard to be human being you, it always has been that you might, even especially now when you go into this,
challenges are when you go into battle. Who do you want?
your head. You wanted ally, you saying
on your side in here to support. You d want to be a friend that kind of that warmed that care that I'm gonna do what I can do.
I mean your needs as best I can you want that voice since I dread,
or do you want a voice that shames you and say it says your good enough, you're good at as good as the other person in a kind of a very defeatist voice within an and strong self criticism people thinks it think it makes some stronger at actually doesn't your actually pulling out the rug from underneath yours
now again that doesn't mean like Stuart Smiley, ungrateful, wonderful, yet know what you're saying
I acknowledge I'm a flawed human being. Everyone is a flawed human being and going try to be as friendly and supportive as I can
I'm going to try to learn from my mistakes as opposed to taking my mistakes. Personally, I help. What can I learn from this and that kind of attitude, learning and growth actually is a very powerful way to to actually succeed and be more motivated. So it makes you more strong, not weaker, and makes you more motivated, not less. That actually allows you to feel more connected, more isolated write. A lot of people have misconceptions about self compassion, that is at least of self pity or self indulgence. They're, all completely the
since its entire practice. In a way it weighs paradoxical. I just was taking some note here because I realized there, but six things I need help here. If we could there s a sign of a good guess by the way, I don't say that to criticise
I know I've been promising the listener that will dive into the nitty gritty of how to actually do,
then glass, but you raised a couple things. I do think we need to chase down. You talk about steward, smaller, yes, that is
character from sharing live play at ivy. Now I guess former senator resigned on under a cloud african from Minnesota back and acting comedian
he wasn't as analogy played a character named stewards Molly would look in the mirror and say something like
smart enough and doggone it people like me. Yes,
that is not what you're talking about right. Yet is not positive thinking. It's actually it's not about judgment or evaluation at all. It's just
yeah, I'm a human being, I'm flawed, I'm in perfect I'm trying to learn and grow I'm doing the best. I can and it's really about a supportive friendly attitude toward oneself and that support is a tremendous source of strength, coping and resilience, and it's one that you know it's. It's really kind of its. It makes me a bit
bad that in our society we don't utilised strength. You know we don't realize it. We can actually give ourselves a lot of the support. We need not completely we,
automat and we're so reliant on other people to meet our needs to make us feel love to make us feel supported to make us feel. Okay, you know, they've got their own stuff going on. The Kanto was be there for ourselves. You do some people like to describe the self compassion as a way of reparenting yourself, so be ideal,
parents are met, your needs consistently, the warm they are accepting and they also help guide. You and
and pointed out? We made mistakes to help, you learn and grow, and you don't become this the person, hopefully that that would be there.
The ideal person we all want to be. But of course no one has perfect parents, people who, who, who have more supportive, warm Heine caring parents, do tender more natural self compassion. They internalize that people whose parents weren't warm and supportive you know they. They have insecure attachment. It's a little slow harder. He naturally you'd your less off, compassionate
the beautiful thing about this is you can learn it as scale? This is not just a naturally occurring personality trade
It is but is also a practice. You can actually do that. She can actually cultivate the abyss,
the two be kinder more supportive to yourself, especially when your struggling, I mean that thus does really exciting thing about self compassion is there is a lot of research shows that shows this is actually tradable skill for addressing you talk about the role of your parents. I had and have very warmly support of parents, and yet I have a very nasty inner narrator right, maybe because I descended from a long line.
Depresses and anxious and evil and out all except said, yeah yeah and one of the stories I told myself for a long time before getting into meditation was my father. Has an expression which is the price of security? Is insecurity
as we venerate worrying, especially in the jewish side of my eye and actually heat. That
his personal motto I learned later he made that up to make me feel better about the fact that I was wearing worrying, ok and
I told myself that any success over six c experiencing here in the hallways of ABC News, where I've been for nineteen
it is now and which has traditionally been a very tough place less so now it was very, very tough when I first got here,
was because I was working all the time and and had had very
I standards, etc, etc. I think a lot of people tell this story. Do you dress this a little bit, but I want you to do you want to go back to it? This internal cattle proud that many of us had yes, how do you
what do you say to folks? I'm sure you hear the argument over file against is the thing that's keeping me afloat right and in an unknown there's a way in which it is to rights are, for instance, if you have a very I like to use this example. Let's say a pair
just trying to motivate their child, and so in some ways are. We are own.
current at her own child right self, this off lady
two ways to motivate a child to do better, so
the child comes home with a fairly math great in the parent tryste once once the child to go to college. So you can motivate that child was fear,
Can we really hard? I am ashamed of you. You are good for nothing, loser,
uncle ground you force ten months
about what kind of work the child will probably worked hard,
her and study more next time, because they're they're afraid of getting that negative reaction, so what kind of works
but there are a lot of unintended consequences, for instance, a performance anxiety. They may be so anxious and next time they take the tests. It's actually that allow
That's going to undermine their ability to do peak performance. Fear of failure. You know it just that you might develop some.
I fear that you gonna fail and get you know you, your parents, criticism,
in a ground. He, nor whatever punishment that you get fear failure,
and eventually you might give up
So there's another way to motivate that child and that's with encouragement support. First of all, hey, I'm so sorry failed, ouch Palmer, you know cut it
It's ok! I love you anyway, it doesn't effect my love for you. The bottom line is it's? Ok, you human you fail, but because
I care about you and I know you wanna go to college. What can I do to help you? How can I support you? Can we look and see your steady patterns? Maybe this didn't work out so well. She we hire, earn a tutor yeah, I believe in you. How can I support you to reach our goals so that the goals of self compassionate people are just as high as everyone else's, because, of course, you care about yourself, you want you want to reach our goals.
What happens when you don't meet them? That's the big difference. So, yes, fear punishment and kind of in and this inner critic is kind of harsh self punishment, kind of works
Then it might lead to anxiety, introduces depression, and you know the economic epidemic of suicide.
I'd has a lot of naked of consequences? You can reach the same hides from this kind. Encouraging supportive approach
and also in a what what we show with the research shows is when you feel safe because of this kind of bottom line. Even if I fail it's gonna be ok that what we know
You probably know this negative emotions narrow our focus, positive emotions, broaden our focus. So when you feel safe and you ve got the positive emotion of
of kindness, and we know that compassion. Actually, we warding emotion that actually allows you to see more possibilities. Maybe you didn't, you know when you are so threat focused. You didn't see this.
opportunity. But when you feel safe, all I see maybe there's a completely different way to approach. I don't even think about
So it allows for more with the calling you know, acceptance and commitment therapy. It allows
psychological flexibility, which of course, economy
safer because and safer and could help you in it. So so, actually in it we used to
the best way to motivate our children was through harsh corporal punishment spare,
rod spoil the child and we know
We know well now to a lot of research that actually that's not the best way to motivate act, holding it works, but it causes so much
damage has other ways to the motivate our children doesn't mean. You complain,
does it mean yeah, do whatever you want us not healthy, but
How do we learn? How do we grow? How do we know recover from our mistakes and do better next time? All in the context of the bottom line? Is I love you? You know we. Actually we can learn to do that with ourselves.
It does feel where first, I'm, I'm not gonna live. If you spend your whole life related
you yourself in a particular way. You don't come with this harshness. It feels a little strange to be more friendly towards yourself, but you you can practice it and it does get easier with time now really encourage people to
I'm their own authentic voice. Again for you down, I'm not can suggest you hug yourself. It's not gonna work.
there may be. You know some other ways what works for you. What helps you feel more accepted? You no more encouraged more cared
were and are using those pathways in gonna. Tell a story that I don't know. I've told us in the Pike S before serve. You ve heard this before. I apologise, but I bout ten eleven months ago now, maybe nine months ago, camera anyway, not that long ago did a retreat.
As part of his book that I'm work writing about highness, I did a one on. I convinced that when my favorite meditation teachers, who has a real focus on compassion itself, compassion, her name is Spring wash em. Oh yeah yeah she's issued great she's a phenomenal human being and has been on this on the show
couple ties and she- and I did a one on one compassion retreat. Ok, though, this was not yourself, compassion, but compassion writ large and then obviously self compassion is a huge
Fergus Yanza. We did I'd. Never I done self compassion practices before or an compassion practices before, but it was a little bit of luck, side interests, not the main dish and say for ten days. We did nothing with that and actually filmed all of it is workable,
use it in the ten percent. Have Europe anyway. At the beginning, she was saying you know,
when you're sending compassion yourself. You know you, maybe you put your hand on your hard and I was like there is no. I love aspirin
no way, I'm doing that and then, by day
five or six. There was a moment
very soothsayers on care abroad, because I think it haven't repeatedly where
I was. I noticed something coming up. Maybe some of my inner repeated hobgoblins are short of a rushing sense nations suffering that comes from like not wanting to be here right now and look now the next thing and then also a lot of self criticism like oh wow, you're, just off your game, the less ten minutes
I use a memory, surfaces and be being horrible and in one way- and I actually did say, are it's ok,
put my hand, I felt my hand go to my heart and when I notice is actually there it once I was once all the inner chatter had come down here because I was on retreat and I didn't have a lot to think about,
And I was more aware of what was going on when I felt dad it actually manifest
in the area around my heart. It actually hurt Vance so anyway,
yeah you're right, I'm not the kind of guy traditionally who had hung himself and yet here I was on this. Retreat with my hand on my art. Sending myself well wishes mate and I would never I would you know I am reluctant to admit that pub
we. But here we are, I do admit it publicly was, I think, actually will be useful for another man. Yeah would resist this type of that right, yet the devil
between loving kindness and compassion, the other two sides of the same coin- the loving kindness, more general wishing yourself well to be happy and peaceful compassion is specifically by definition aimed at suffering aimed at pain. So one practice we teach, which is actually very useful, is if Europe, if you're feeling something difficult, maybe anger
year, sadness. Her grief, confusion to the extent that you can located in your body and that's one of the gifts of mindfulness practice is the ability to actually physically. Did you see that great new study by Richie Davidson the
that the ability to actually know where you, the emotion, is manifest you in your body, so severe congruence between knowing what you're feeling
Where it is in your body that that engine of itself leads to well being is called interception, it will interception is the.
Should the ability to feel things in your body, but the ability to feel your difficult emotions as a boy
ITALY sensation and track. When I'm more anxious, nobody feels this waiter. When I am you know it's just.
Pack. The changes in your body as a kind of a too
with your body as a manifestation of your motions is actually is a real use.
scope. But anyway, I happily and say that for me as a meditative that happen quickly, yes said I just instead of
being fully engulfed and overwhelmed by an emotion for me, mostly anger, so daddy, I would
switching to noticing how it felt right. Ok, and so what you can do, if you can just put a hand wherever that emotions experience, what might be in your guide, it might be in your throat, my being your head, it may be in your heart, you know it almost doesn't matter and then so. What happens when you put a warm hand here again? Part of this is just physiology. You know we just think about it. When babies born they have no language touch for human beings as good as greatly
search on touch in the care system touch is one of the primary access points for compassion for feeling safe, revealing care for our whole Paris. Him.
That nervous system is very closely linked to touch and so sad because, yes, it is touching,
but nonetheless, early and literally as human beings thou art, as we are thus Awayward designed physiologically. So there
other ways to access it, but it seems a shame to the Miss out on that really powerful tool does because it feels uncomfortable because, as
when beans s away our bodies and our brains
designed to your words
and to react to this and I think you're tone of voice, not because I disagree with you told
I will give you a compliment. Doesn't I think you're such a successful communicator on this, because you do have a
dial. That is a little touchy feeling, but you back it.
with so many basic biological and scientific facts that even somebody like me with such a powerful allergy
ah, to that kind of style yeah? I guess you have to listen. I thank you
I think it in some ways as the integration of the mask than in feminine right, so it,
sadly, why do we not like touchy freely, because this kind of seem to be feminine quality varieties and,
science and hard logic is supposed to be a masculine quality, and you know
to succeed, or so we mask them in and I'm both you know and that's that in both simultaneously that's,
We are right, we all are but here's the thing is.
Manner socialized they they aren't allowed to be in touch with
the kind of more warm in a sector like I'm country,
and this is the yen and young herself self compassion, there's two receptive tender side, and this also that action oriented kind of more fear, site,
both are necessary for all human beings
Am I really work hard to integrate both to honour both, but in work contacts
The young, the kind of masculine, is honoured and valued at them for feminine. Isn't it s real disadvantaged women, but the way men suffer is because, in the relational
they are socialized not to be in touch with those more tender size and that hurts men too
you know, and so we're all being harmed by not being able to be our true, authentic cells, which is both mast,
and feminine both active and passive, both receptive and no goal oriented these these. Despite a central dialectic, we need both simultaneously all the time and I think maybe that's what you're picking up on Wednesday animate attached
fully scientists, you know I'm integrating. They left and right brain him and both are really important. I feel seventy Selassie user
teacher? I really was a friend and it's true. I really like Michelle, teaches a lot on the temperature to have your app and so
she has mentioned. Something like you think, you're thinking your thoughts, this she's use tat nobody else, but you're. You think, you're thinking your thoughts, bigger, actually thinking
tourists thought this right, and so for me I mean I want to think of myself ass sexist because obviously that's one of the worst things you
and be in our society right now, and yet obviously this allergy, I have two. The touchy freely, is
a sexist in many ways in which that meagre socialized to be that way, because the feminine has less power. That's one of the outcomes of patriarchy. Is this this
I'd of human nature when its devalued by patriarchy
It means that self
you down as person, then turn
the larger cultural context which is which is operating in you. Unconsciously. You know your choosing to be this way, but when you think touchy feely, what is triggering is less powerful. If I'm touchy feely, I am less powerful because I'm moving more towards the feminine, where there is less power and that's that's death
Jeanne man you're what I guess consciously I'm not thinking there consciously guides just annoying. You aren't consciously delete ass soon, ass, we know about and by seasonal implicit, Durham, conscious, whether it's about razor gender. These things are operating outside of our awareness and one of the below
full things about mindful this? Is it does give us more clarity?
I mean we ve talked about a lot on the you, and I know it's sort of a little bit off topic for what you have come here to discuss, but bringing
so the sunlight, which is a painful process,
Harrison humiliating! Yes, oh wow, while I just reached the snapped,
judgment about somebody based on their pig. Mediation has pretty negative.
that that's in you
you can see that and, as you said before, not take it personally gas and you're not owned by it, and then you you're avoiding a whole many. Many worst mistake. Yes exactly, but that's why you also. It is at this again
the yen, in the Ian, beyond kind of gives us clarity and it's kind of the slightly more masculine energy, but you also have to like be
and you yourself, you didn't choose to be prejudice and I signed up for you wanna be prejudice. You know this. This is part of the larger culture, and so you have to be able to hold the pain, and so so these two, these this dialectic of self compassion, so said the
in energy allows us into can be with ourselves and compassionate way to kind of value
aid ourselves to accept yourselves as we are. Its very powerful is especially powerful for dealing with shame. How
do you hold chain? Shame drives.
so much negative, behavior, so much destructive behavior people can't even begin to touch their shame, so they act out. They start shooting people. I mean it's really destructive and actually even there's a little bit of gender and shame as well.
Because it manifests differently, but a lot of men's behavior. What we know psychologically is driven by the avoidance of shame. Why? How do you home shame that that intense pain you have to hold it with kindness, hey this part of being human? Everyone feels as everyone
imperfect everyone makes mistakes in the mess of shame. We need to hold it with compassion and so that the healing power of self compassion is more part of it. You know it's not totally. Either orbit is part more part of the inside, the kind of being with ourselves and kind exception.
Warm way loving way. If I can use that word scientists, but it is it. Is it an expression of love, but then there is also the action side. You know think of a fire fighter.
jumps into a burning building to save people who are in about the gap in flames or service. You know it
men and women who who actually risk
their own lives to protect people. That is an ultimate active compassion. You know, but it's it's the other side of it. It is taking action or motive ADA a coat. You motivate the kid to achieve their goals or teachers or people who work three jobs to put food on the table, for the kids
all these stem from care, but so sometimes care requires being with acceptance. Sometimes care requires taking action to try to alleviate suffering,
and that's I even more more the young side, a self compassion that people first of all that confusing
realize it's there and that's why they think it's week as well being selfish, they don't realize.
Alas, I see some action qualities and that in the last word, gender comes in.
I saw a man aren't allowed to be in, and women are allowed to be young. We all need both sword cut, em, both messed up because of it. You know
and so self compassion is away to hold all of it. You can hold the pain of things like patriarchy. I'm sure you don't want to be
charcoal, but you're your white man, and so some
the EU. Can you didn't choose to be this way, but this is part of the larger culture this actually encoded in your brain patterns right so how'd you. How do you deal with that will force? While you have to have a lot of kindness, you have done a lot of forgiveness. You have a lot of have to have a lot of acceptance and you have to be able to touch the pain of it. You know- and I am sure them my part, my colleague Chris Burma. We are talking about this issue and hate us as a white male. He broke down in aid because he touched the pain of that is such a kind guy and when he really opened to the pain of his own privilege, you know it was just a year. Is: is clean touching, but he, but because he is, he he's developed all these self compassion practices with me. It was able to hold it, so you didn't have to defend himself event. Pretend I'm not. There already reads it's the around, not privilege. You know he could,
into it, and then you have to open to the pain the yen hold it with kindness before you can take action, which is the aim and do something about it and both at both a really needed, and they all the flip side is for
come in and I'm a woman. So much next book is actually an enemy called fierce compact self,
passion for women is Canada.
Women really need to cultivate this Yang energy. We need to protect ourselves.
To say no more aware and putting a stop subordinating our needs. No, you can't sexually.
ask me, no, you can induce me no, you can't pay me less. No,
you know: it has to be more equal, I'm not just gonna like give
everything that valuable to me to meet the people's needs at that that socialization
in a room. You may call me names, but I'm not gonna buy it. You know
women really need to rise up and claim their power, which has been stripped for them in large part because they aren't allowed
to have this more Yang Energy, you know, and so
Everyone really needs both, and I think the beautiful thing about compassion is it is both.
There's there's Mamma and his Mama Bear S on this.
yeah or young, or whatever Gang Yang the egg aversion to sort of fierce. As our compassion, I think, of my wife
I'll have to ask her permission because his personal, I watch
heard her dealing. Why don't we refer to it as struggling with the anxiety?
of compassion. When I do watch her struggle with how to draw boundary
with me, with our sea, with her bosses, yeah and she's, really
comfortable with it and then sometimes maybe she feels you take
too far and his only harsh like yes, hi training. That is really tricky and pray. I have compassion for that yeah
yeah? And so you know I'm I'm similar, I'm a successful academic and use.
in many any male dominated, feel the be successful you gotta really draw on year, young site. You know your uncut, a more mass glaring, competitive, strong side. We get cold
in short, this is this: is the double bind woman or end to succeed? We have to be young, but we are personally liked. One real people
like a summer yet, but we can succeed, you know
and so that's why I just do here with the double by not caring, gonna. Do it anyway, but see this is the thing
use the energy of the dream boundaries of protecting yourself for say no, I need you mean my needs. If you do it from a place of care, I could refer to lose its carrying force. You been forceful,
but it's not aggressive, is not personal. Your your link, blaming people, you're, just
that the force that Mama bear energy comes from a very pure, loving place of care and kindness
when you when you remember that we integrate both energies, then it's clean, then you don't, then you don't just explode in Aiken targeted,
It is a no that's, not ok, but it does mean that you weren't okay, but now that behaviour is not ok, and so
win, win integration is allowed to occur it yes, it does.
A lot better is also a lot more effective. You know I'm, but we're gonna have to
front, gender roles in order for both men and women to be able to be off our full off antics, elves, goose, so much pain in the world. You know much more. My conversation with Christian Neff right after this staying in full has never been more important. Information is coming in a standard than ever. So how do you make sensible start here on broad milky from ABC News in every week days, we will break down the latest headlines
twenty minutes: straightforward, reporting, dynamic interviews and analysis from experts. You can trust always credible, always solid start here from ABC News. Twenty minutes, every weekday, smart speaker or you figure podcast app.
I owe you something which is at some point. I cut us often sent us a cut you off and set the standard.
ok you're about to say something about tone of voice? Oh yes, array! Ok, so it so what we know from the research as MRS Lulling, energy poverty reduction,
nerve, music Berkeley. I have happened on the show, declare held her doktor cabinet on I pronounced that binds us crackerjack by agriculture or cat a dagger. I did a piece on him fire Nightline about ten years ago. He was
lady had sent the greater centre and also basically a lab that studies compassionately as yourself, commissioner, all aid alchemy forms of compassion, yeah, yeah, yeah, really cool guy there actually really eager to have him on the shows that you should have listened to you be great from the New York yet that, yes,
He sent some great. We search on the showing that, basically, the triggers of the care system, the triggers of compassion. There are different ones so touch we talked about touches a powerful trigger the tone of voice
So his research shows that around the world universally with us, what culture you go to is the same sound of compassion, which is actually do it. There was a sound of compassion. So if I'm talking to my son and he's hurt herself yeah yeah yeah, if anyone if anyone was her, will orgy naturally say or your catered nervous, it was due to pursue sound without
Words make a sound found. Ah, yes, yes around, there's not a single culture where we heard it was like a superior
Well, among life teenage boys, we would laugh at each other if we were hurt so ashen part of our brain and not a better because it expresses the so this particular sound
Edison term for that that country up and down and an animal's due to is actually again. This is part of our physiology.
number one we come out of the warm. We don't have language so some of those first couple years of life,
import, and this is where our whole, when our whole attachment system is formed, preferably so what our communicators that were safe from where loved and you know cared for things like touch and tone of voice, also gaze and another one, and with this little less research on gaze
tone of voice. So for some people, you know maybe they'll, say particularly harsh things to himself, but their tone is really cold. The warming up the tone
you know in eternally Shirley internally can actually is vital. Not just what you say: it's how you said softly your body posture, your body, potter, foster, tents, are going been tents and tight with yourself and common cold or you,
more relaxed and more warm with yourself, that's what made the joke earlier that it's about warming things up is about that about a supposed cooling, be cool, good, there's something about warmth. You know and again this
just our physiology, so we need to know it's. It's really. It's not about it's, not a mental practice. Compassion is not a mental practice. Air has a mental component, but it's really an in body practice. It's about feeling. You know it's about
you know. I often we teach people self compassion, we say see if you can is gonna drop out of your head in your mind and destroy line and just drop into your body. You know what we're doing in a way is is worth if you won't be scientific about it, as is the parasympathetic nervous system were coming down, were courtisolles, reducing on that less adrenaline
heart becomes more variable, more flexible oxytocin is being released, and this is actually an embodied experience.
And so that's why I think it's really useful to come to self compassion, not just to the mind. Yes,
words important this one pathway and you can actually approach it as an embodied practice so bereaved. Now to me,
to finally get how gave it would seem. I'm guessing based on getting based on my experience,
car two ways: one is the foremost see did or practice.
And the other is free range on the go in rather more yet, and so what we find
actually in our research work, so we ve, developed this chamber
gum called the mindful Self Compassion programme and we find it doesn't matter which, when you do that the equivalent they they're both affected
so you can sit in meditation. We know that love
kindness. Meditation increases self compassion. We have other meditations like using the breath as a way to kind of common suit, soothe yourself or we actually, we actually teacher practice
we we tailor the phrases to be a little more aimed at your pain because love,
kindness, unarmed greek, hard to throw friendly wishes.
you're, just a lot of pain, you can actually with compassion. You need to turn toward the pain directly and just kind of validate that it hurts the kind of climate.
That type of attitude for the pain. So you can do that in city meditation, but there a lot of informal practices, so we do teach people to find a touch that feel supported hand on her. It works about fifty percent of people about fifty percent. It doesn't some people that can
The solar plexus, some people like putting a hand on your face. Some people just holding her hand, meet people
to find a way and the type of touch that works. That's one way of learning to speak to yourself in a more friendly in support of manner
for many people, the best ways to think about
When I say to a close friend do who were really cared about? Who was going through the exact same situation, I'm in
What would I need more naturally say, especially if I was at my most compassionate? What would I say to support them to help them,
Let them know that cared about them in this in their time of struggle, seeking use that as a template for years,
You can also imagine what an ideally compassionate person was, eighty or or spiritual figure. You know.
If you say what would Jesus say in a way
with Jesus is itself compassion, practice
Nor can I model my inner dialogue based on what I would imagine someone like Jesus would say you know. So this is the work with religion can also be separate from it
a compassionate letter. Writing you probably like
There was one study that showed if you wrote a self compassionate letter for seven days straight it reduced oppression for three months and increased happiness for six.
that's right that very simple act and I think, there's a lot of reasons of how it operates. One thing you were perspective taking said to be lost in the pain
you stepping outside of yourself and doing perspective. Taken seen why you really having a hard time is,
anything I can do to help. So by doing that, you decide identifying with the pain which, in and of itself as powerful, that's kind of the mindfulness
but then you're also adding the sense of connecting us, hey it happens to everyone. Imperfection is the human experience is not just you
you know- and we forget that when went when you make a mistake, if we get that call for the doktor, we think something has gone wrong
This is the plan I signed up for
Everyone else's is being perfect. Has a perfect life in his just be whose struggling through mind
yourself who common humanity, that this is normal and
part of being human, you aren't alone and the and then the kindness rights, the warmth of kindness. The care aspect
All three elements are really important, so another way you can you can practice of compassion is just reminded yourself of those regions
on it we have something called the self compassion break. First use mindfulness it assume. While this is I'm struggling, you
I think, that's obvious. It's really not a lot of people aren't even aware that their struggling there so lost in the struggle or trying to fix the struggle, or they don't have any prospective their total aid at a five with it,
help themselves when they lost in the pain. So first mindfulness. Oh, I see this as a moment. What really happened,
time, and then you remind yourself of common humanity when this is hard alive is not just me. It's not of normal to be struggling.
in this sense of isolation that we get when we when we fall
onto the illusion that everyone else's perfectly art is debilitating. You know they SAM and
evolutionary biology alone. Monkey is a dead monkey right. You know so that feeling
related, because you made a mistake, is really really detriment,
three member hey this is this is
of how he learns is normally national there's nothing wrong. Did we make a mistake and then bringing in the kindness you know what can I say,
to let myself know that, even though I am struggling, I care, and we therefore myself. I could support myself, I'm not an abandoned myself. I mean think about that. Don't we do that we abandon ourselves when we struggle, we just
You know our minds, don't even go there. We have this ability, win were in pained, actually give ourselves here, the poor and kindness, and we just abandon it. You don't even use it we just with. We is like this:
we ve got this incredible powerful tool. All we need to do is remember to use it and we don't, and so you can just sing well. What no really good friends hate me right now or what, when I say too
a good friend right now or what would Jesus say whatever? Whatever Ino image you have of compassion,
remembering the kindness and you put those three together south in these
the three components of self compassion in my model, the mindfulness, the common humanity in the kindness. But if you want to talk about how it feels in a moment of Yin Self Compassion, it feels like loving, connected presents you're holding your pain in loving, connected presence was sent as well at the pain is because you need to protect yourself stiffened. It feels like fierce, empowered clarity. This is not ok. I'm gonna stand together with my brothers and sisters.
I'm gonna say no me to me to exactly and so that that the face of the manifestation of this carrying force may vary, but this all coming from the same place
We know and mindful listen and compassion or kind of the aren't exactly the same again. They have a slightly different targets,
This is part of the same dance at some point is just open heart, mind and when your heart is open and your mind is open, you are connected with everything.
See you just you talked about a lot of approaches we could take, but I'm still, I'm just wondering is for the listener right I hear what many of whom are met at many, if not all, of whom are in an editor. Can you
private, how we would do self compassion as part of our men?
yeah. Yes, I would only imagine
Who is the ability to lapse you it off? We know meditation is one of the best ways you can actually train rain and changing structure. So it's it's. It's very power,
is not the only way to do. It is equally important to integrate in your daily life that serve your meditating, so
For instance, we teach meditation and mindful self compassion programme. Some is like
what you do in your mind. Wanderers you can you
the wandering mine as an opportunity for self compassion. So not only do
note, is that your mind has wandered you? Might you might? Actually you sad to say? Ah you know just like I'm just imagine like Europe, your minds like a little toddler who wandered off. He was home the hand that toddler gently bring it back towards both to be, of course it
Saunders you know is, if that's what it does, but I can still be kind to the wandering mind. You can actually use any sort of frustration that occurs in practice. What say you fall asleep?
can't focus your ina whenever you're, not lovely, peaceful state, the people like you can use that as an opportunity to practise impassioned yourself some kindness and acceptance, and remember that this is just part of the human experience. So that's one way you can do it. You can also, for instance, the brow
the breath. Can we use the kind of calm the mine and settled the minus as a focus of attention with his also quality to the breath it you could focusing on the breath itself can be very soothing, very comforting
Paul Gilbert actually talks about that, the soothing rhythm of the breath. You know that you can actually notice. It is a strange way in which this internal rocking motion that you can rest in good, liar yourself to be care for by the breath. So that's another just little slant on it. You can use to activate this another practice
we actually my favorite practice is that we again using the breath. We imagine that
breathing with each in breast. You breathing compassion for yourself and with each out breath you breathe out compassion for others dervish
of the it's like bitten, yes about ground, but that practice
This little more is a beautiful practice, but you breathe then suffering of the world.
old, transform it and new breed of compassion.
So if you, if your aim, is to actually cultivate self compassion, we find,
actually more useful little.
Ethan for yourself. This is hard for me without, for others, this is a really good practice for caregivers sweetie,
the like doctors and nurses or teachers. You know it's hard. These jobs are high is hard to care for others I feel burnt out. I feel overwhelmed breathing compassion for yourself, it's hard to feel this empathic distress, it's hard to do what I do. I feel overwhelmed, feel burnt out, breathing compassion for yourself validate your own pain and then, when you either
without compassion for the person you caring for their struggling to and the nice thing about, breathing compassion in an out its is very connecting it's so as to practice is very connecting could breath in
about time. You can focus a little more on yourself if your pains were selling interfocus, one, the other if their pain is more salient, but this idea that it's this flow inward and outward that's, why it's? So it's a really nice cracked
all these limitations. I have on my website. People can access the website. I self compassion dot org week, if you girls, if you
will solve compassion. You'll find me life. Well, there also put in the shape of hazard, but what about the repetition of phrases like me
we have yet so I'm so loving kindness. We do to us at each loving kindness. So again my colleague Chris come. I think you he's brilliant. He developed a way of helping people, fine personally, meaningful phrases that really help to the things they need to hear
The standard phrases are fine and they work for a lot of people, but you know me
we save may be peaceful may be. Healthy may live with these if what, if
if you're devastated, because you ve just lost your sign or something like that, it feels kind of a little in congruity, say may be safe, may be happy, maybe peaceful with ease and his act. So so actually he, if you guys people through an exercise where you have to think what do I need to here right now,
I had someone who could whisper in my ear in this moment. Exactly what I need to hear. What would that be
They use that issue phrase since a lot,
more and also can be, can be a little more targeted towards. If what you need to hear, stressing the real pain urine, then you can increase, use accept myself ass. I am
you know, may support myself. You know I'm ok, what what
effort is you need to hear you actually personal leisure phrases that the touch that directly? That's one way we, if we can work with the loving kindness practice? How is this practice player me? You? You got interested in self compassion or something
that then teacher in Berkeley Low these men easier years, yet about self compassion that
turn you on and has become your life
lively, her yeah your career, he, how is it played out in your life? You know why you mentioned us a son, you.
The sun was banned Eads. How has this all worked for? You yeah? Well, I guess
I talk a lot o my son, these really my my best teacher. So
yeah so he's my son is artistic, and I had about seven years of pretty dedicated self compassion practice under my belt. By the time he got diagnosed ah Annie, I candy minimum
and how I would have gone through without oh, I would have, but it helped me tremendously. So it helped me both. Not only the mindfulness pact
of accepting my feelings in allowing the grief to be their allowing the feeling of disappointment to be there without judging them, without making them go away, but would really help was in addition to that. Giving myself that we know is really hard says really hard. You know actually give myself that that that love that kindness, that care, especially
when he was having a year splitting tantrum. You know, even though he is in pain and make sure he was safe, but that's what I would
my breathing compassion practice, oh just so hard breathing for me this so hardy feel overwhelmed better known
do it. Why, like want to jump out a window, you know and, as you know, the kind of game myself that love and support in that
and then I was able to also be that for him, and you know so. It allowed me to stay connected and those moments with and just focusing on him or just being overwhelmed. So it's really. It's really help me in that practice. Just really everything I've gone through a me at this point. Self compassion is it is. It has become a habit. You know, occasionally you sure thoughts will come up. Feelings of failure and stuff come up and there's pain, but now it might. My habit is to just recognize it as pain and to do whatever. I need to do to be there for myself in the moment again whether that's I need some acceptance me in some
soothing some companies and validated or whether that's action you know is, it is help me, you might say: well, you know. So I am an academic and there's there's there's been some
Ruggles and in my academic queers? Well, it's really help me. The fact that I can integrate the care with the taking action is help me be more stable and more balanced, even in times
challenge get not I'm still a mess. Don't get me
get I'm still a mess, but I am a compassionate mass. Is
achievable Goal mass, the beauty of it
That's a joke! I'm glad Emmett compassion, teacher, none of my business
that aren't always have equanimity. I'm not.
Was aware, I get lost, but I can
pretty quickly. Now, I'm in the habit of whenever
paying whenever masses happening. I just hold that with compassion. That's the name of your book by the compassionate this.
that's than I was thinking that I think is: can we fears can self compassion woman? But I also like baby of compassion. Is it's a really
It is a nice idea, because you know it kind of explained
what it is, and man actually used. The cool rob near and actually message to your editor
there will be more like an airport, it s a bit member, my books for a woman. I know I think
I know a lot of women garlic, I've sold out of books to women, ok, so we can. We can. We can pay began to titles
I girl. I love that phrase. It s really, it captures it self. High self esteem is not an achievable goal.
Maybe not even a desirable go yet exactly, but compassionate mess is an when you hold things in compassion. Anything becomes workable, thus thing it be,
comes workable and you can actually learn. Is it sounds strange. We actually learn to rest. Your awareness in the loving, connected presence in the compassion holding the pain, as opposed to your word, has been identified with which it was war.
Walk me through that how this works in a moment in your mind for yes, so me I have lots of. I don't guess at what your little you know daily
thorns me your side may be, but for me it's like
I have the holds self critical thing around. I have more around belly fat that I
Wanna have I'm skinny guy, but I wish I had the air
I had my mid thirties and I'm now, while coming up a forty, eight and they're, not there anymore in any discernible way, and so every time I pass a reflective surface when I'm
so the beach for a week of my family, there is a lot of like. Oh, my god, look here myself. What in that moment, how would I things work? So? Okay, so and then this is why the three
components of mindfulness, common humanity. Unkindness are helpful because it actually looks almost like a little meaning instruction guide of what to do
So first, it asked always start with mindfulness mindfulness is the foundation. You got a notice that hurts instead
being lost in the thought that I wish I had another. Six pack is like the painted this. As you know, the death does her,
whether our should her whether or not you know whatever. That is that it does America's it does hurt.
You look in the mirror. Oh wow, that's painful. We look I'm fifty two in I'm pass
my prime S, that you know
is it, but it's the reality way, so you
Can the mirror- and you say- oh, my god, I'm gettin jails
However, it is so identifying the pain of it and then then the common humanity wages you memory will this is its power,
being human is part of a gene. Everyone you nothin's last forever. This is actually part of the human experience.
No human being alive.
The didn't, get older. You know that these things are body and start changing ass. Not what it means to be human is not just me so
this tendency in the moment to think that
other man, the world, their old geeky supermodel. Aren't they the backgrounds or old enemy who are ripped so
my mind yeah, ok, but but but they too they to eventually, you know dealt at all
NL thy sight outside wait the news that well aware bad news, I'm just what's happening cognitive leave me as I know,
die. I know everybody I know is going to die, but I feel too young
brow be Arrowpoint right right, ok, so button
nonetheless, so maybe some people that maybe your friends who managed to keep the six pack at age fifty whenever maybe that's not their particular thing, they struggle, but surely something the human experience.
is about. We struggle with our imperfection. The human experience is not about perfection, Bassett Instagram illusion, you know
really is the isn't it yeah. Maybe it's not a beast autism, but something else: maybe it's not that they are the six pack, but something else
Everyone struggles in their own way. I thought of assyrian Instagram account of only of my sons. Tantrums right so is but
so what you really opening to. If not you opening to a particular thing you opened into the just the fact of human imperfection its normal. You know that
This is new art, abnormal something bad
wrong about not heaviness its back. You know get if you want to that's fine, that should goals nothing wrong.
With it, but just remembering that that you human, as remembering your humanness, letting go of that idea of perfection witches
which is false and an illusion. Right causes a lot of suffering and as falseness allusion to just
opening to the reality that human mean human isn't about me. Will you know that
you know reminding yourself of it.
And then I know it in theory. I know it for other people. You know it s ass. If, but you forget it ray. Is it's not that you even you?
away and but you don't in the moment you forgotten if it feels like a recipe for complacency. It feels like I know, you're gonna throughout this parliamentary. Yet LEO yesterday s eye, it feels to me, especially as a pretence said the alley.
Ok, I can't leave her dwelling this long on my says that you know it s good. Is that you know like if I may
the gym harder or if I hadn't, even half my son's- played a french fries. This wouldn't be this way right. Ok, so what
What are you doing in that moment? Is you kind of fun?
lean in to the illusion of complete self control, is actually we aren't able to control things that have the me perfect? Not if it really is important you and asking for a healthier and strong.
absolutely go to the gym. Do more sit right if ever some
aren't you in as an important goal, and if it's going to make you happy and it's going to help you relieve the suffering. You know then then you're that then you bringing the kindness, the kindness,
go couple ways depending on what you need, the kindest. Maybe you know I, I guess I'd really feel so much better. My body, if I did more sad set ups. What can I do? Maybe I can make it easier for myself
like like me- a higher- might pay my yoga teacher to come to me, sir, to actually go to class if it's important to you and you think, it'll help alleviate or suffering or big healthy. Well, you find creative ways may be thinking about differently. You know, what's not working MIT now
it can be different. That may be away you go it. Maybe at some point that the way you go is wine disc and accept it again. It would acceptance or change
You know it's a matter of wisdom right, what's right, action to take, and I can tell you that the wise thing to do, but the thing is
that getting down on yourself and shaming yourself and that feeling bad about yourself for not having the six pack, you up, here's what happens right!
It may be. Let me know if this is true. You think that in a moment- and you feel bad about yourself and then because you feel bad about yourself boy- that glass away
looks pretty nice or you want to comfort yourself the kind of counter,
Active feeling bad about yourself and it actually ends of war
in against you. The shame shame is not
ass motivating force when she agree, we
feeling erosion way. I will agree women, you feel ashamed as there isn't really get up and go attitude and nobody, some like a dry I'd, serve clear eyed analysis of deficiencies does help absolutely that's the best. The marvelous that's a clear, seen. Constructive criticism is incredibly helpful. Kindness least constructive criticism, judgment and shame needs to harsh. You struck the criticism we know for
that the constructive criticism is more helpful than just saying: you're you're fat, loser hoot, who does that help so again
motivational power of it is because
Hurt so much to call yourself with fat loser you! May you
some motivation to try to avoid that self whip. You know, but at the end of the day
probably gonna, undermine your efforts because you gonna be so feel so bad about yourself. You can have that extra glass of liquor that piece of chocolate cake the thing. Well, you know actually that this this omission,
happy, I can see clearly I could open to the pain of it. How can I constructively do something different to help myself at you, Michael,
so that the amount and ass, the kindness that's the kind of right. I was that I know it's not your kindness and movement, kindness, comedian or young kindness
Sometimes, as you know it's time, I just have to accept it, but the kind of sauce.
might be beyond hey what Queen change to make things better. How can I help you? How can I help you reach without you need to say to yourself? How can I help myself reach my goals and ineffective, realistic manner and warms and feelings of safety are actually going to be more supportive? If you being able to reach your goals, then just shame and and lots of dumping lots of negative feelings on yourself. That is actually
find the rug out beneath yourself. Doesn't ultimately help pretty much do what we got to, let we got a little off track, but so it's important that these three elements we need to be mindful mindfulness is the car we need to be aware. We need to remember, are connected this. We aren't alone the feelings. Feelings of isolation is KEN's, one of the most psychologically debilitating states we can be in when we feel all alone. So you need to remove.
Connect Agnes in this struggle of human life in his car correctness in the mess I'm not here
compassionate mass, where we're all message, your mass I'm, this everyone's amiss. You know.
has just part of being human and then the kindness, and how might that kindness manifest? Sometimes a kindness is tough love. Sometimes the kindness is accepting love, sometimes the kindnesses encouragement. So
times the kindness. As you know, I just really need em over worked and you to cut back on. My hours are more time that work life balance. You know again, wisdom knows what the right thing to do is what was important is the friendliness that intention the kindness, the kindness is always aimed at helping alleviating suffering. You know, and so you can actually just go through those steps and, as is a very easy thing to do, you can do in the moment. I teach we teach something called the self compassion break where you find language, it works for you, because people are really different and when she got like phrases that work for you, it's almost like a mantra, and you can just repeat those phrases: I'm Selim's you, some touch condemn on American, set it off
right. You can use the breath, it there's lots of different ways, and so I think it a month of compassion Gama think at thirty seven different practices. You know some work for some people, some doubt, but it I think it's
really worth spending the time to find out what works for you, man, I'm talkin, to use a human being right now, if you struggle with this, you know what works for you. What's what doorway actually opens the door to this loving connected presents to this this feeling of oneness this feeling of well being this feeling of care telling you you want that we all want or human beings.
And so what doorways open that for you and is actually worth spending some time asking that question is no right or wrong answer. But once you start habitually
ensuring that doorway become that door becomes easier and easier to open is incredibly treating unattractive
probably going to land it right now, but I do think
Europe ever meditation practice. Yes, so is
The matter of just can we buy
in yourself. That is not just about the awareness is also about the connection is, and it's about the care about them,
yeah, I think I just need a little phrase that gets me in that door. Yes, exactly an end
What that phrases you know only you know really know it's a great thing to think about and explore their to question. No one asked before ago, both of which can be short if you want, but that's up to one of them is: is there something I should have asked, but didn't he covered a lot of ground in ITALY? Ok completely covered broad, ranging it go. Then. The final question is: I always do this kind of semi facetious thing at the end, which is asked
for to step into what I call the plug zone. Can you unabashedly plug it? I'm giving you permission here, s lug everything all the rest.
Is that are out there where you are and social media blah blah blah again yet yet so I can because I guess it was.
in the last ten years of my life with my colleague Chris Kramer, been developed.
In the technology that he's? Actually we connect with Harvard Harvard observation that we ve been developing the technology of how to teach.
compassion, is not just a good idea. We know that technology, the pedagogy of how to help people be more self compassionate and its. It was in a developed in the Microsoft compassion.
programme and is TAT all over the world? You can either go to the centre for embassy and find a teacher you can take it all mine with the cool thing is our workbook just came out in August.
As it is the number one bestseller, but the work which has it
all in there and suddenly, like enough fifteen bucks or something- and actually it's guys, you through the sequence in it, has helped to do all the practices safely.
It's a very successful way to access these practices. The Microsoft compassion were book in that
a year ago that one or two been available, you would fit just had to have someone.
Area you ve had spent a lot more.
I am in money to learn the practices, and now it's just one click away,
and your website again itself compassionate compassion that org yeah and you have a twitter instagram, although I do have a twitter, I have so many tweets for me a nurse,
say it remember it's twitter handle is who gets a badge of honor? I can send it to you. A morass of Facebook will probably be the easiest way posted
so is, if you just Google self compassion cuz, I got videos, I got a TED talk, I've got you can take your own self compassion and testerone self compassion level with the scale
I've got a for those of you, science nerds listing I've got the original pdf of probably like well,
over a thousand articles, research on self compassion, organised by category.
but a lot of work into this to try to facilitate the research? So if you want to know what's been damosel compassion in body image issues, I've got to say
on self compassion and body image with all the original
the efforts of the scientific articles. So if your scientists as a place to go, if you want to use scale and research if one or take the scale of got practices, guided, meditations written exit,
Ices kind of I've tried to design it as one stop shopping, so to speak, save anyone interested they can find that resource. You did a great job of this. Thank you very much Rinki. That's my m kind and friendly voiceover LISA driving it to you. Yes,
I learn how to do it myself, it's! Yes, they gave you a big thanks to christian big thanks as always to the team.
worked so hard to make. This show a reality. Samuel Johns is our senior producer. Dj Cashmeres are producer. Jewels Dodson is our eighty.
Our sound designer is met, point of ultraviolet audio, Maria
or tell us our production coordinator we get in
we're missing out of insight and input from our Tpa colleagues, such as joint point,
nay, Toby been Reuben ITALY's Levin and, of course, as always, big. Thank you
My ABC News, comrades, rang Kessler, just call him we'll see you on Friday for Abode
Transcript generated on 2020-12-18.