hello, Babylon, be loyal fans and subscribers wheel, pressure. You in love, you very, very much passionately. It's like having this extended family of people who love you. Did you really knows we have broad agreement sometimes we got a touching one. Yesterday we didn't

sheriff. I need, I remind you in any new, never reply, because you never gone you that we need really email. Ethan is the embodiment of old man, yells cloud, There are other stuff from training a what it's true so we wanted to let you guys know that we're changing things up a little bit so that we have been since the beginning of the podcast. Releasing I think, on wednesdays. We change how we raised. We did like France Monday's Wednesday. The news do once a week and Emily Celestial split we're one. In Friday, we just went to video, and we run into this problem that we record the new show on Monday and or two more Dan Tuesday mania, recurrent Tuesday Monday's prep. Poor Dan. Has that lesson four hours to edit the whole thing and get it done and out forever Stay deadline, which you was. It was very fast on audio yeah

see. Audio is duly. General height is very tight. It's because I was the guy doing before day came along. An invidious, all other animal plus we're doing graphics and stuff. It's takes. It just takes a term were probably video The plan is police, are interviews on wednesdays. Right, cause interviews. We have you know we re I had a time they're, nice time sensitive, stacked up so were able to preparing the week before thrown out on Wednesday and I'll feels like we do. The new show on Wednesday we're talking about news from the week before that areas already talked about. So I ethic now doing it on Friday will be doing our prep and stuff the same week and maybe a little bit more up to date. Selby nice, and you'll have the weekend to listen to the new show that we say a little more spread out so too. Days, gonna be the enemy show. Then I say Wednesday, a camera they got in. Mrs a schedule will be Tuesday. The new show where an avenue show. Now this is going back.

Tuesday. The interview show we have danced already. He has memories, on Friday, the nature so this week, This is not the new show this the interview show again so soon. You say yes. Because we are. We wanted to give you something today. But where do the new show this Friday so In the meantime, you're gonna get talk about China. We have this picture in her head. The youth download your Babylonia podcast and Yoga yea, the new ship, this massive crowd of people with large with thousands of my legs. Apparently of you, establishing that we will always be here at the certain time than when they were does not without explanation yeah. So this is compromise on that, so usually tuesdays and then fragments now and will be Wednesday for justice. We write,

I know it's not usually tuesdays and for an EU citizen, for I thought you said it's. It's gonna be usually oh yeah. It is, it's gonna, be usually is, the actual, usually you, your tents. Usually usually in the thing has happened you we'll be. It will be going forward, you will get your interview shows on Tuesday in future goes on Friday, right. Did week, get it Wednesday invited without further, do. This is to lash that make university down there. This island, it that sounds like a disease by air My own down with the Bible Doc I got the by walk and real bad I got worse now by all can't sit down. I got the by enjoy. Hey, Kyle, uneven hold that thought. We ve got

some say: that's right, our part as this week is being sponsored by faithful counselling, sometimes, things can get a little overwhelming, even though you know guns there for you. You need to talk to somebody as we talk to deprive environment, though talking about depression, stress, anxiety, relationships, family, complex, even crisis of faith issues. They do this entirely online. You can talk to people me a text, video chat, phone call, and you know This person shares your christian worldview and that's a big concern for people to go and get counselling, NATO. I heretics teaching Ewart counselling. You dont want those darn atheists counselling, you saying go to a faithful counselling, dot com, Slash Babylon, be to get your ten percent discount and also so and how is it? You have a crisis of faith. Even are you haven't depression, anxiety, stress all that stuff someone to talk to someone talk to you They fall counselling, dot, com, Slash Babylon, be faithful. Counselling

dot com, Slash Babylon be what was that you are not just where we go back you Kyle anything yes buddy and welcome to the Babylon Bee Interview show and I'm common and does is eaten a goal and economical hello. Joining us is Steve. Rogers Rogers still carry in America good you got there. I can't weeding out got that. I was endless thanking thinking, Mr Rogers, maybe went through all the Roger anything Fred Rogers, that's true surrounders friend. Rounders is a guess this is not see Rogers. This is an impostor case. Can they see that surely, as on the camera and overcame, I would think so said straight anyway, he's wearing Captain marriage shirt for anybody who is doing or if the shirt, guy today. He's captain China, that's You should have an American warn against China's right by the chinese lining the Chinese right

the government and the people, We say that when we say that's not speak for him, but she wouldn't nothing interesting. You hate China, the government or China, the rate at which time and introduced to introduce- and we thought about doing a drinking game for the Babylon Bee retained shot every time we forget to introduce the Kurds drink wouldn't, but shouted root, Beer Emmy. I shall obviously We have as a stimulus. Who He turned my Allah, that's towards him than MILAN Himalaya demolish. It would be a like one nay like a few musician or something or like a lush savage warrior. I am demolish calashes taken many heads for our people. Together for, like a website or twitter handle that sound like right, Tomasz too much, or like a really organic substance, he can put in your tea a healthier Yes, I can see you

to those who stuff about China, mainly on foreign policy, quick entails he's, not a China experts, the gap because expert would not use chopsticks really well, they literally if you bought wings, you have to know how to get out of the fingers. Yeah. I get my change. Checkers at expert level is right, but go our male Julie You know it's our next now that nets of China exiting launch knives out again with the black and white stones. They replied, that's ok! Then they play that in a beautiful mine too. That sounds ran out and I think he'll remember. Where is a while ago, those pretty crazy. I've tried it and I don't understand it at all. I implants small board like the nine, but I don't get it yeah me neither tried it's in its nose. So we brought TIM option because He is not a giant expert bodies adjacent an active expertise in emerging here mean he's an emerging foreign policy expert.

Dollar on international relations, that's right, her rights, So China's been in the news in a lot. You no law, it's gonna, be a good idea to discuss something. Even the main thing we want to understand is like there's racist, jokes, but you can't make and there's right on line. So you need tell the cigar. What's thing right on the lines were safely and so make the jokes? Could we don't wanna be mean anybody smoke? moreover, in yonder the consultancy. I too am a comedy, makes me like any merger auditing merging emerged, imagination term coming out of that rhino, and you say emerging and how much I wasn't allowed, but neither was like a well. Why don't you talk to us about China are tells about you saved you from your work. You do,

suitable, but you do have studies, Claremont gradually inroads. Yes, I study international relations and political philosophy, Claremont Graduate University and that's wrong burgundian doctorate. So that's. Why won't go as far as to say, like I'm, an expert, because as if the same reside, dont Tom. I tell my students, don't call me doctor MILAN because I haven't reached non visual! Here's your piece of paper level, so now you're certified right and I mean I guess we live in a society where experts are a little, there might be a mixed feelings about whether not someone's next Burma that makes it trustworthy some still trying to figure out to what degree to embrace that label. But yes, study, I study- are natural genes and political philosophy there and then part time as an agent prick factory it in political science it by allied teach classes in world politics, foreign policy and diplomacy, contemporary political thought, all that good stuff. So it's superfine for a time coach, the debating there, but

for me, I don't have a debate to remark, which is a fine feelings, her too much. Maybe I don't know we had the reputation in the nice people on research or even the christian school. You only watch Fox news and that's so we only imagine. Colleges are just snowflakes melting everywhere, happily not by I know but also great place. I love that through I went there and its a privilege to teach their so fantastic students, my sister, went by Allah very call himself and reference that, when friends tat no, let's go to the said this discussion here What are we will wrong? You feel like doing when people are generally talking about. China and this whole plague upon us ass. If you were the box, the map see. We have a really think reduce that wording, Generally conversation start yeah, yeah saint someone

Pox upon you might possibly doing even those knowledge. It is the idea that the effort always different things, but is pretty confirmed that the virus came from China in yeah, we're pretty certain about that? Yeah, that's a great place to start. What do we know? What don't we know end? yeah we do know the virus originated in China. Was it with somebody eating about sandwich, and now morning now we're pretty certain. It's not that now determining the bathroom some people Fine, if he added you know, I mean it's not a wretched. The ban is kind of the stand in for wet markets at China can opener. Martin demand is caught, yeah worthier, where people go to get exotic meets Though, apparently did you can't far more exotic meets in a wet market the prince called wet because as they have water balloon fights. If only a always now is pretty much that's where they just you pick the animal and the butcher, its The blood is the wetness eyelid

That's what I have heard the wet because the they slaughter right, there's the bits and reactionary like this before it makes sense. But you know the fighting is as much as people have talked about what markets, having actually seen anyone right, a story in american media in May it just might be the sources I look at other. I look out loud different sources, but no one's I've seen probably one story that actually has described a wet market and it was even very detailed. It was just making a point of o hated what market back open. So it's really interesting that, for all the talk about what markets are hasn't been a lot of hey. This is what it is. This is what it is. I can say that by yeah we so there's two parallel stories on the virus: it yeah escaped from a lab hon or merging these. What markets the wild it sister it doesn't really matter where it came from there. So long as the point of origin is confirmed it to Wuhan China and that's where it happened, that's where it broke out and then

anxious made its way around the world as a result. That is more or less where we can pretty comfortably say: that's our star, point for this whole thing I saw the near governor was called the european virus. Yesterday, oh yeah, later, as written on early, I came from finnish press coverage keeps saying that this european virus attack is it races to call a virus asian the Chinese. Well, how do you feel them? that from a foreign policy when it view its inaccurate It's an accurate, its unhelpful good lay. When I guess, if you're, if you're a president who really allegedly Ancillae lying ass, you really want people angry and in every

and so I just to that great yeah could fall under the heading of racist. About the same time, it is just an accurate. I think, when we're talking about things like this, I'm when you're talking about foreign policy, you want you want accuracy, you wanna be clear on what you're talking about, and especially when you are talking about foreign policy to the american people. You want to be clear on what you mean and entails, and so Clare. Is really important and how you talk about interactions with other countries whose physical new aid to be racist like ago, like ITALY, will it didn't really I'd never heard. The idea that calling it a disease of certainly where it came from, like so many diseases are named for where they came from busy o in them. A name one in almost all Lamar. Yes, then sudden with this one because it feels like it's this time. It's the times were in their moment that you say anything they find a way to get upset about it. Yet so I don't know that.

Seemed silly Diego is somewhere in America and to call it that this in that virus? No, you would be saying it's racist seem to then that's why it's a issue with accuracy at that point right, because the more What you say cops allowing anyone viruses, ok, when I was in early may be but what does that a mean, saying what does it do tat. We ve always done it. We never ask this question of. Is it raises two collar viruses, India, this virus right yeah until this moment now organ touchy about that yeah antagonism and raises all along the gloom and talking way back when Nile races against West Nylon, that's right, vanish flowing, who raises against those guys aren't, even though there is like. Is there like a west now river and we know that just come from the West faintly rely on river, and I mean I think there is a lot of that island realise where that was well place: wasn't it was referring to

we and others are blue Nile and a white denial and denial, but I've never heard of a western blue. Now tat runs. It runs through ethiopian sitting in an inter each evens, pretty passionate about this because he walks around the office all day. Syn, China hirers them who has violated China? It is easier to pronounce think over nineteen or corona iris, or something like that are dear to we want to get into like the whole was island called the bat sandwich. Myers have more fun It is more fine. I drank granted that to make up names and for its foreign policy can get some boring at that point like to run a virus over nineteen. What is that yeah? But, but I think going back to the point about racism and but I think that is a good point to bring up on going back idea.

Accuracy and being accurate in what we do and what we label things, because the moment you label at something like China, virus or chinese virus or China, flu or whatever. In that immediately moves the conversation away from understanding the thing and its backs to ok, you, racist or not, We know that that is so far off the realm or off the radar of what needs to be talked about at that point, that it becomes a major distraction and that gets in the way of decision making at probably leads to more confusion. Hence the governor New York, a European flew now which it was it was he accused of racism, but some good. So we confirmed when China Obsessive calling in that it is my only when? Is it like these days. Like what you just said, like Distract us into the debate about racism

and never would have until this virus until the never oh, it's weird that we have got the virus accrue from colonel right right right. You were an inordinate having cars is about what we would do about this in the future. If it came from this one specific place, then have to have talks about foreign see I soon be what we in the future about this kind of stuff right, yeah yeah I mean, but you can also add that when you have to admit that at Cambridge Shiner it oh yeah, absolutely ok does obscurity. Location on the point of origin, China name to that one virus, and then, when we I can, but I won viruses that thing that this You know I level they were. I love General says chicken at three. I use chopsticks at the beginning, they were colony. What are they gonna get caught at the wheel on corona virus? I think what I think is probably fairly precisely here: that's not confusing nothing. It's will harm, but then I'm gonna go politicized.

China virus young european virus sojourn in order a lot over the item you think it alive. Is that the Trump thing are you kept? China has yet there is try their luck as there is for a period of clear what it was there trying to say. The american military means happened, something yeah that was actually really, and I ask for the military. Yes, so this was actually something where we can get back in the Chinese. Politics is as the pandemic unfolded and people sorry Quest, Jane Young that chinese government's handling of of it, as They started pushing back in demanding answers, and I say hey how come or on the sooner they are all that stuff. Apparently, the premier of China's, using paying a kind of I guess, gave his What's a pet talk and basically told them hey, you need delight, get suffer out there, and so that's were also. We start seeing these stories about somehow you turn of our souls.

By a weapon from the: U S, army that got implant into China, like that came from chinese diplomats who then and then you lie yeah. As it was just I will add alive and our media around with. It was totally a conspiracy theory that Armenia around with I'm, not sure. If that that seen in reporting. That is so, The letter car Ura, your satire snow. If he's been adopted or a yacht, much refused on us and by when you marry refer presidency, we if you say, may live forever after that she ass. If she had no ill will how'd you pronounce it. She jpg. No, no don't John, I mean like pronounce it super accurately. No one story here like I was teaching a lesson on chinese history. Back when I was a junior high school teacher, I had a chinese student in this class and I was pronouncing some names of different light dynasties in

China's history and she started laughing eyes. I know I'm pronouncing it wrong. I said, please help me, and so she gave me the proper pronunciation and I tried and she laughed and so that's a little better and we would back and forth five message me five minutes it was. It was like a ones syllable phrase and right: ok, you're, getting there we moved on, so Guess I'm just repeating what I hear the rest of the american media say. So we all know how accurate we realized. When we started a podcast, we start we had to learn how to pronounce words hours. You only read because I really think I dont you. No kind of introverted I read things and then on road talk, bomber, watch, videos or anything right in its prey. The same thing we start teaching glasses minister learning. Say: we're not big talkers debts, weird thing at the moment We combine the might become very talkative everybody here through the Babylon Bee, podcast Can we hang out? It's not like me. Song, from the silence and then, like you know what would be cool methinks

that is for a very good podcast job? Is not an area pronounced with confidence that the lessons? So what Things is this pandemic, exposing between China? In? U S in terms of relations? Yes, oh it's! It's exposing a lot fault lines that were already there, so I talk a little bit about this on my ipod cast a couple weeks ago. Is that a lot fault lines between China. America were already pretty well documented came out a trade war night at the end of two thousand. Nineteen. Did you just in time and we can add a trade war, so that was a GEO economic, economic, mention has been building. Taiwan is a long standing point of friction in our relationship with them. They ve been the people's Liberation Army, the p, the military of China,

has been working on building manmade islands and for find them in the South China Sea in an effort to build colleague, gay security court. And our buffer zone around the chinese coastline, and so there's is this. Then something that has been hotly contested between America and China, but also There are countries in the world and then not to mention China's human rights record their lives and pretty well documented that they ve been really harshly pursuing the we're muslim population in western China. Although Europe is, Christians were very familiar with the persecution of Christians in China has several decades, and so the human rights record, and also is another piece of friction between the two countries. And so these are all pre existing or YAP Pre, cove it and then covered comes along, and now you have this situation where

China, stone walls are talking about it with the rest of the world. They prevent in the early stages. They prevent world health experts from gained on the ground to value. What's going on there and then we could say there s, history them becomes a worldwide pandemic in its made us all, like basically grind to a halt, and so it s just It took what was already strained relations and just made them more, serene more difficult, more a fraud and some that's kind of where it stands right now. So, if I, if anything I'd say it's acted as a colleague in celebration to building tension, between China and the United States source. I leave like nobody can get it. Dinner come from China Dislike block Emma

no actually impossible? Yeah? Now that's a yeah exactly, and this is what makes us there. Maybe everyone has meant suits right now. I am not sure I've heard anything about that yet but expensive, yet they are expensive and even if we have stopped how that right, you're having a hard time I'd around the numbers when they are going to do the, though the big, male out money stimulus, trillions ownership if we everybody like a nice six hundred summit, another hazmat suit. In the whole? U S! then that would have saved us like about men like a quarter of what they are spending on an eighth angling, an eighth zapped, the inspiration behind the hamster bolster. Ok! I've always as used to be like a natural, further action that might uses the lunar hazmat look into the new I'm impressed the you you did the number I actually ran the numbers, that's very impressive! I tweeted he missed my tweet, I mean you unto his awhile ago. Immunity lieutenant, I was playing a frank, is Frank, said something about hazmat suited anyway.

Why do I wrote a letter? I wrote your story yeah, there's an gambling major travel restrictions on me. Obviously, there have been now and while the windows will be lifted and brown, because we have a lot of students who come here for school, we have a lot of obviously does Is there a balanced relations on a business relations even after the trade war, there's gonna be a business relations, so my book is printed there. There you go see you're part of the problem. I feel like something where we were all kind of. We knew there commies bunch of filthy communist. You now and then we d in kind of funny, but I the European Union, a gardener. Now they filthy farming's now Well, you know, I don't answer it feels like. We know that there were some kind of geopolitical threaten on rise and then, but we're all going. We get cheap stuff there. Are we overlook a lot of other things like the human rights abuses and all that and then

You don't have this kind of exposing like where we have some major in securities and flaws in our supply chain and all that stuff, yeah yeah. I think that some concerning there's something that a lot of our foreign policy experts and in view of the China experts who talked about, is more trying to characterize the relationship between America and China. Should we characterize it? Is? U enemies? Well, no, not exactly because of the business relations and the trade in even just the cultural exchange, and we have cultural exchanges. Going back decades in before communism, as I can't really com enemies, so people have settled on calling us competitors, maybe pure com, dinner's is a phrase that you might hear people really hesitant to call out cause adversaries, although be one of the effects of accelerating the tensions out as a result of this, but people have somehow joking eyes up sometimes jokingly referred to China,

as for enemies now, and that might be more accurate use me no accurate that's an additional GEO political exiles term per annum. Yes, the way I think about it is now, on the one hand they are, can we are competing with them? I we're not. Adversaries were not trying to pay our whole societies against women. They're about the same time, we're still navigating these very complex, very fraught elements of relationship and that's one thing that makes it very different from the from say the Cold war the cold war. We had almost no trade with the Soviet Union and that's been one, the most probably difficult things I think for the General American, population and even some experts really term to wrestle with here is, on the one hand, saw a story today, actually is of, I think it was on the american conservative commentary, saying here we in cold war, to overwhelm you caught

for two people are thinking. You know how is this like our cold war with the Soviet Union, but there's some significant differences and one of the biggest differences is. We are far more invested in Turkey as countries and economies than we ever what with the Soviet Union, and it just makes it much more complex relationship and much more complex landscape. To navigate what kind of the cultural things every gun from China like as a cultural trade. We them of injures movies penned, express they give us what Matt Damon, the great wall that movie a movie ideas. I watch it how it has been all the king, Kong and guns a loser from China. Now, no that's your in Japan, Japan, can you see Japan gave the identity of our century depend, as they really are. Very strongly about that different somebody, Korea gives Kay pop pounds, what trying to give us, I guess Jackie Jan we came from Can you think there's a company in the but the rights to Burma Gettin? My my comic in China

I get for that says Maria Movie, Burma Gettin Movie in Genoa. They did. Apparently there were then they didn't spend money like raising something, but they Do you have that ready made? This offers an amazing money used those like small budget, but is more money, then basically free money to buy the rights in there and make it in payments. They made it, the payments for the final payment and then the company's disappeared and close down. And the sooner we get the final payment, but I got all that money for freeing Sloan the rights, edit. I really needed it after many details is in this light no man's land between and Babylon being the details. Barrett, save me in China. So you just getting on his dark money from China. Yemeni did while one year c c p plan. What you're free I? What about you? That was your favorite chinese food canker, chicken,

Is it from China? Resign hired? You no idea, it's probably american eyes, and I assume that whenever there is a way, any kind of ethnic seen in America. It is americanized. If someone says I, restaurant. I just immediately, since you mean american italian strategies evaluate American Chinese S. Room like I just assume tainted. That's right. I'm worried about you can man I like this around John it, but who is general so no idea That's right! You're, foreign policy, expert knowledge, China, Cuba, China, expert, you'd, know about general, so he made chicken. That's all I know, he's probably the colonel Sanders of China Dago its pronounced to so seldom I'm good, I'm going at its name. The dishes named after so are you saying just google it some time

it was a chinese statesmen and military leader in the eighteen hundreds saga, and he meant the chicken but it's all Jenkins invented Chicken in Madrid, and I urge the So what are some giant lies? China government has told an listen journalism, an accuser. They didn't actually tell at a great question: the I'd say: problematical you're lying in a half million out of the question: Brennan RARE, like that only on PETE. To get that response more. We reject telling mark figure. This question so yeah Why the big ones is obviously the conspiracy theory about this fire spam? U S military by a weapon, does the work as an ally, they told me I was a whopper title, yea and another one is probably a release went to zero cases. Really really

quick. Their numbers were crazy. Getting away they ILO and happening around like if I may revised and laser later, yeah yeah, almost double Lucian yeah around eighty five thousand cases. They just immediately said no more rigid and no one believed three up in the word yeah outside of the Chinese Communist Party out again, when believe How do you know how many people within the chinese communist with, but by tat I mean pre quickly, most what intelligence, agencies, United States, Europe, others or just what so an end more recent having just last week, they start reporting new cases again it move on and in other areas surrounding so yeah no generally believe. That's love that increasing. If one and then then the other half of that was what did

but today something I think they will arrive. Assembly lies. We think they told the linen actually town if at any time and about China, but it's like I'm Amazon has allotted on around yeah yeah cash. That's a good, and I'm not sure I can think What about the killing the whistleblowers they were? The killer was a war. They have a lot of whistleblowers have disappeared, we don't know exactly. I killed them the I could be so I think so. There was yet ass likely. One of them is last week, I guess there was a chinese researcher out back EAST, I'm not your other was Pennsylvania. New York, somewhere working on covered, covered, related research and ended up dead, an apparent homicide and yeah pretty quickly people splendid up, and so, like always some strike on by a chance.

Probably night it sometimes most mundane. Things can be true, and in this case it seems like it was Kaliko. Others like love triangle, or something like that. Some associate. That's really create the portal of Trang Yes, I can loyalty. Is America, China, who'd? You have more numbskull I have no idea that seem to be a place where people could pretty quickly run too must be China. I mean, I think it was just couple weeks ago, gallop released a pulled. It indicates that something like sixty six to seventy percent of Americans now view China unfavourably and that's really steep, draw pretty good numbers here. If you can call out was a super majority with islands, pre consensus, bipartisan viewed, China is not to be trusted still again. China's great really quite right, and I have found over their observing quiet Mary CNN action. Is that nothing changed? Americans are no, a a lot of things. Americans are usually expatriates, their families

he really is on and so they're usually quite critical. So it just depends so, as I Donald Trump Sweden's humming, similar to Edith said, and then I guess I can Jong media all right said wrong. Like a key like China, maybe does. Yes, thank you might say just say: do not speak for me, don't trump. I could be probably yeah. No, you won't be careful, namely to brought a brassiere thing. You can sell everyone yeah yeah example think and there is every up a gallop poise, just I think they're. It does lead to this tendency right now, in particular in the information environment in the United States, that people are very very likely to mistrust China the moment something suspicious goes down related to the virus. It's gonna be one of two things. Rights can be. China are just now, it's gonna be bill gates, so that's gonna be one of the two right that

seems to be where their conspiracies are now start coming from now, and so we have to be- and you have my full and careful that's. Why, like the questions, let's on the things, were it's not clear that that China is not involved in? What's pump the breaks off her opinion for we all in and say at its China's fall sudden. What can actually be done mean I do not have This happened again if it cuz, it seems like a lot of these. Viruses come from China right there's been a number of them right. There have been several viruses in the past like Swine flu bird flu. These originated in Asia, that's true, and so on. Yeah I'm not virologists on the hammock. If they are used as I we end it s, just perpetual lockdown, that's There are things that have been talked about it Yeah, I mean a lot of times it's when people talk about pandemic, it's gonna be a lot of yeah. Let's make sure we understand the disease

Let's make sure we get on at early, take proper precautions, but just certain This is something that a lot of people who doesn't really help the case for being connected in an interconnected world. Bala people who have just commented on the fact that this is a feature not a bug of of globalism and interconnected economies in countries more people travelling than ever before. One of the reasons these these viruses and buckskin move so quickly across international borders is because we're interconnected globalized world and so and so to a certain degree. Those not only lack happened yen and that's just like you put that Genie into the bought back into the bottle and most people say no

you don't, but on the other hand, you do now have this very real situation where you now have to work on managing managing pandemics and trying to stop an early and trying to understand them quickly and that something that this particular episode has been a really big challenge for not just the United States, but for other countries around the world is that they their pandemic responses. They ve their governments have largely anticipated something like this happening, but I think the scale and the Dutch and the speed with which it has happened has largely took people by surprise hats. Now you see a lot of research that would otherwise require years to take place, now trying to be done really rapidly in a matter of months and sets. I create a lot of people would mother tongue the independence of the pro

SL the boom. In her mothers, and while, like Hong Kong protests there, yet they at once a black everything went silent, pretty quick, be, has largely pollutants which are taken on the Hong Kong protests in your heart. Take my heartache You probably expect him to come back to this if it sooner rather than later- and I think it's because virus more or less shut them down, thereby wound the quarantine. Everything- and you could say rightfully so I mean Hong Kong- has had experience with these types of outbreaks before and so, and so they understood that this was not necessarily political thing. They need to respond to a public health crisis by think ones that public health crisis clears year. I think you're probably see a return of the Hong Kong protest, because there is a lot of issues that were left unresolved as a result. It because the protest for ongoing they're happy more. They are happening frequently and then Mr Scott

at a very early pause button. You might say yeah Taiwan's a separate issue, though, because Taiwan's have interesting, Hong Kong's, actually part of China, but Taiwan, China, the come to China's chemist pie claims is part of China, but obviously Taiwan. Does not imply that we all accept that as yet views the end. So Taiwan, in turn degree, is probably be the bigger flashpoint coming out of this because they actually have handled the virus exceptionally. Well, for being, you have just a few dozen milder things like hundreds of miles off the coast of China having gone through some of these pandemics in the past viewed moment anticipate that this would be a pretty significant hotspot, but Taiwan responded very quickly adopted very quickly and they were able to new flattened,

however, what everyone I call it very able to reduce their cases really really fast and- and this is not a good luck for the Chinese Communist Party and their handling or mishandling of the virus in their own country, and this comes exactly at the same time that they're trying to build their influence in international organisations. The World Health organization was actually chinese influence that helped push Taiwan out of the way health organisation, awhile back, and so now the question becomes well. Ok I mean. Should Taiwan? back in because these guys seem to know what they're doing over there and so yeah. I think you can expect some morph friction in the taiwanese China relationship, and that does involve the United States because the United States, Ever since nineteen, forty nine essentially been the background defender of Taiwan and so young spiking tensions between Taiwan

in China are usually gonna, involve the United States in some respect, so Bill Gates kicks the door down. Here and he's got his vaccine again and its charges you would. He do duck, So you, your aunt, I've answer has what you're saying now, I'm saying: if he's gonna do that he probably hasn't put through a double blind peer reviewed study. So it probably has even been so once has the review take the backseat, probably not you're not going to the vexing have like China, trackers and it Norman now. Just more of this situation, I cannot see if it works and so far I must have the most of the tests and trials have proven to be busts up to this point, and so Yeah no package has aim if its bill gave up me say my hey, you guys I've perfected at me, life did you perfect windows.

If you can perfect windows and then tell me as a perfect racks, and maybe I don't know sell you out. I would point to even then I'm out the door right now. We're just gonna lose your first, Oh, you know and I go home and they just target them. This tumult, Lasher where's, MILAN! furthermore, either through me, under the bar and get out and whose already inasmuch as this is a side. Note, question I've heard people talk about how South Korea combated the virus civil use. Say the nay basically docks People who are not made me bad. Is it true that extreme language, or that mean no idea, I'm JANET

practice of their phone or some re all right. So is it like phone tracking stuff? They might have done a man there wouldn't be legal. Here is my understanding that we can do here unless we like, yes or several or several countries have experimented with doing basically their contact tracing the phones apps, whether its apps, her just gps on on the funds. Everything like that, and so there's been some discussion about it here. I think Google and apple have ruled out some kind of act that is supposed to do that out. No without will be widely used, are accepted, but last I heard there are working on something like that by I. I can't really speak too. What South Korea was was doing in regard to that army won't be surprised that you'd utilised tech pretty well in situations like that. So I won't be surprised, but yet would it they don't necessarily have the legal since you ask that when he would be the case and not just the legal constraints, bucolic that cultural social constraints eunuch

Do that to media, allowing us me around on our cell phone right exactly they tried doing in Israel, but the israeli Supreme Court struck that doubt is an invasion of privacy and soon because I can use that further stuff. Later it right, I mean we will win. This was just more obvious right. A great wall of China Recruit really great. Ok for a long time. Long its. Please don't swear on our shoulders. Ok, so you can see our about it or something, but these are less marries a flower. When I listen, you guess. Your great job here is our imagines great. I am as yet, I have not been not visit China, although I would well there's a branding saying you can't called the ok wall of China near my people are getting pretty good while the pretty good day together, they are done good work of China if it doesn't then met while the myth that doesn't really have the same, but it doesn't quite ring,

is the wall racist? Now, probably now there was to keep like the hunter verse. For my understand him and I've seen the lodgings at the. I keep the Mongolia Mongol but in MILAN was the Huns right, and when we should what we should learn from danger. The bulk of the movie and history is that didn't work very well You gonna go right over the one or around at random. It has any evidence. That's a secret! needs to go all the way around the whole world right right. Instead, my civilizations and all around your key city. So it's a little and accurate in our lab to the next planet. What's what your favorite civilization game for was actually really Well, I'd sixty with I nursed due on the squares, yea lasted Americans, the hexes, we're pretty fine, I mean I know I enjoy five one thing I like that five is at least in military stuff. You can be more technical, but the squares you could just like stack all those units in the ass. Like ok, you just went by number. I was a huge

now. A fan of two and Allison diary which we can take up under the stars and tat was a sterile. That's pretty need how accurate a civilization when it comes to. Regional relations. That's great thanks. I really want to write an essay on each has I've my higher thought about discourse, Gandhi, bombs, euins doves, it yeah Gandhi using nukes, probably not, although it's really funny in civilization five, that guy's can be a real warmonger, Larry, I'm an old. Would the deals with the Israelis really interesting, so international relations theory, I'm not yet really into the weeds here, but there's two broad themes of civilization. Five! It's a video games out you ve got. This looks like we're talking about here. It's it's! A computer games not speak. Chinese. Only ever played one video gallons, rendering it read. Did redemption? Ok in the uncharted games: ok, Ok, so this is basically a world building to investors. Again, this is a good thing, as anyway war

Finally, we will hold a nation nicety, but I am sure, be borders and then you can it each other so yeah. So it is fascinating to actually it's it's a good teaching to actually learn our national licensing diplomacy, at least in elementary sense, because international relations theory, there's two broad camps: there's the real school and the liberals, school there's other school, so probably going to be offended. I didn't mention them, but these are really busy. They can't discuss the most, Surrealism is basically just balance of power. You know strong the strong make the rules the guy winds and we can see how that is pretty present in today's international relations right. In fact, we could say China, Russia, both utilised, pretty strong realist foreign policies, that's about zero sum game. Like I win, you lose type a thing. An trump for the most part has been mostly realist, president,

Now the liberal, a school is gonna, be more of the catholic liberal values like let's, let's build, let's build open societies, let's build democracies, let's build individual rights that such etc, etc, and that's the that's the objective of foreign policies, it's more of the college, multi, lateral, global cooperation, global village, snipe stuff so too, to schools I internationally, since there is And when you get to the civilizations games, you actually see both schools working out, indifferent play. So in the game play you see a lot of realism the moment your borders start bouncing up against another. Civilizations, another civilization. The moment you start overtaking them in points in power. They declare more. It doesn't matter who they aren't, doesn't matter how peace loving they are. They just declare war if your, if you next Montezuma God help you he'll declare warn you before you get more powerful, so

That's a very realist interpretation. So when it comes to the conflict dynamics of civilization games, it's very real is, however, it's really funny how they utilise certain liberalising. Did so, for example, you can win a victory by diplomacy, victory by building the United Nations and gain everybody to vote for you to say, you're the greatest cause you like won the game without war in civilization, for if you use nuclear weapons on somebody, it would create like global warming and desertification in different places. He would have like environmental degradation. That's a very big area of liberal It focuses on climate change and global global action to change itself. There is some dynamics of the game that very much borrow from liberalism, but then there's also these dynamics are pretty hard core realism and most people play the game is realists because it's just more fun.

It is more fun to duck Senor tanks against their spearmen and dry run a malaria exactly those one hit shots early, great, most critical, goes beyond the receiving end of that those are all fine moments in civilization, for when you get there by someone you like is just one soldier and then you hover, and you say they have like fifty guys on that title. Dig it and then the way to conflict works than one spearmen can always be your tanks right. Lucky roller butter, yeah right terrible. I found it happen. So you can. You join us again, looking back guess we'll airplane double dragon. Yeah, probably some chinese people now, if I would never played it good We need one of those. Then when you one of those cameras, shots where I can do like the GM look from the office and just I don't know when you guys you talk, as is their only herds,

but a nervous, all so chinese, China communist. You said it and feel that their fill arising in your life and communist government, so our armies, and, unlike just not filthy, there was a difference between because we talk about the chinese government, the chinese people, as well as people thing where you know your racist of attack, China, but it secretary of the coming DNS great distinction, making great that you make that distinction that you make that distinction between government and people com Try comes, now you ve. Just on the ccd, I mean like us, our foreign policy. We use really boring for his fist. As the rational and barring Trevor. I like lumberjack, arbitrary home thereafter. I narco ask you to punch it up a little bit: but now it's a good distinction to make. The Chinese Communist Party has ruled China, since in forty nine when MAO Zedong took over and the tough thing here.

Is that we really dont, know the degree to which the people of China support the Chinese Communist Party. That's like the big known tracking chinese domestic politics. China does really good job walking down information in that country? I mean it's. It's have won a stranger s strange, but just one more interesting examples of this is that China's diplomats can use twitter, but chinese people can't and put its because twitter is the public diplomacy outward facing, and it's probably not an american tech company. So you. Don't get to go in to China unless you may speak turnover all your secrets to themselves. So in that sense, its very interesting that you know for the Chinese Communist Party Day day interacting with the world in a way the chinese people do not. Generally speaking now

The Chinese Communist Party obviously has a wide membership, and so it's Johansson, probably hundreds of millions, its we're talking about a country. That's one point: four billion people it's for every. For all intents and purposes, we can assume that there is a fair amount of support for thee. For the Chinese Communist Party and their government, but that support is assumed to be based largely on their ability to deliver economic. Growth and lots more. Let especially in the case of president sheeting, paying that's a halo forever. You betrayal, retiring from we're. Trying not to get banned from Youtube is trying to do. I say: ok get so between between the vocal affirmations in Athens business dealings. We should be I sell journeyman they're down, I saw today, I d the Chinese Communist Party were is tired to recycle

no I got. No, yes in paying has more or less built his legitimacy, and his claim to ever broadening powers on the promise of. I will deliver economic good times kind of thing. And so, if that's the core element of his leadership, if that's the core element of the legitimacy of the of the Chinese Communist Party, currently in power, obviously they're gonna take a hat from all this, and so there's some discussion as to what to how far that will damage their hold on power, but at the same time

we don't really know the degree to which it all undermine things, and so I say yes, we should make the distinction between the Chinese Communist Party and their ability to rule the country and then the masses of chinese people who live their daily lives in China. That should be a distinction that is made the difficulty with that distinctions. We just don't know what we don't know how far the cross over goes That seems to be a hard thing to determine what so the government or filthy communists. They are definitely communist. Let us be clear that the filthy can we get you to say, feel probably what matters now is exactly right. I teach form possibly policy and diplomacy. I study diplomacy and I try to. I have a couple professors you'd, probably very, appointed if you think of communism, isn't unattached anyway, still. I communism would be like it's terrible sets, filthy without chinese people,

of an in a vacuum. Here so I've originated on nice. I wrote bed for discerned that was titled. Socialism demands violence that pretty much outlines how I feel about cotton like yeah, so, yes, communism is dirty filthy. It works in a family hurry, whereas great enough and a family or lands volunteer. Answer social right now that points Sancho level of anarchy right. At that point, I gotta tell you: haven't had authoritarianism, you have behaved with all that benevolence and love it works. But yes, I then apply to all countries can say yes it is what is going to learn a spanking manner a global of our country wide scale and a gulag exactly

why? Why gulags are like spanking meet the Maumee partners around the union? Amber that's right, it's like cheese, Mr Tomlinson, so I would say where they so mean the Christians over there. The third big. What's the big deal so this actually island again. This is a distinction between communism, as in the chinese experience of communism and say communism in the russian experience of communism. So

I think when we hear chinese communist Party- and we think are tragic on this country. We merely look out through the lens of the Cold WAR and the Soviet Union persecute Christians, and so it's just communism and safest, persecutes religion, and Christians are, if you like, all religions, but in the case of China, it's a little different because the there's a more complex history with Christianity in China and that history starts with missionaries from England from Europe from the United States that took Cristiani into into China

backed Clyde took the poor prisoner by all who is present. By alone. I was there. He grew up in a missionary family in China and so there's a long history of of missionary activity in China and grew up flourishing christian community in China. Then you get to the turn of the twentieth century had to early nineteen hundreds and you have what became known as the box or uprisings or the box rebellion, and this was essentially a a group of dogs, the return directive. I understand. I guess it's a breed, a dog and enable it to go The whole streets now isolate it's. Why the mould its Swallow Weymouth titles even give a group of people so the

the names. I understand that for related, it is more so. Arts related answer came from the British, like the British, saw this group of people around a rating, the martial arts, and they are not like all they look like boxers. They became those boxes of its lame. It's totally isolated arable title and especially its just kind like the british Cave and accurately described what they were saying, but it's like boxing. Pan rebelled in some way and we called it like the ninja rebellion yeah somethin like that. You ask us to do that, but but yeah it goes and history is access. So anyway that it's hard to describe what this what this was. What, essentially it was this, this movement to oppose western influence in China and it was yours. Time when it was at a time when we are in the middle of what has gone down history, at least in chinese history, is the century of humiliation where China, a formerly you know, global power, had just been subdued by

the imperial powers, not just of Western Europe, but of Russia and Japan as well, and and so you had all this western european influence and there was this sense among certain groups in China. That they were losing chinese chinese culture, chinese identity and things of that nature, and so they took to. They took to basically trying to recapture that so proxy martial arts in public,

and everything which you only got their nickname. But then, when they rose up in rebellion, they started targeting areas that were considered to be western influence or western imports and Christianity was one of them, and so there was this wave of persecution, attacks on missionaries, but also Chinese Christians as well, and so Chinese Christians have existed in China for a very long time and and they ve been persecuted for a very long time, and so it would probably oversimplify it to say that this is just a function of communism in church Cultural there there there's some kind of anti western push back, that's attached to it as well, then that has deeper historical roots and thereby gets merged with communism in a fairly toxic way Secondly, small town, some guy

moved in an open, Rebecca, Kebab Shop and then like these really. Why reddening- we don't need, none of that arab stuff air and kicked him out yeah, I gotta be the equivalent of racist, very reason yeah exactly these associated with its not even there are knowing whether religionist connected to Europeans that the dangers were decides on Europe yet so the European Flu, it was the european religion So I go open a burger store in China. I think there's Mcdonald's out there, but I like when the little town now, if you didn't like nineteen o five yeah and you'd, be in trouble gotta, do it in a globalized twenty twenty that I have mentioned, I might standing in a asian cultures, especially Japan and China, kind of romanticize America, american culture, at least like I don't know, if that's true like even like one who here aren't you understand why this happens by like chinese people will want to take their picture with me

is it because it is I'm a fat american. Like I'm a I am a representative of something and so a little. You know me from anything they psychotic picture within that or you can do the voice. I met with all respect maybe maybe maybe you have a following over there- really knew enough to ILO words. I hadn't, really those community might actually have a fan base. You have no idea analysis. We like amendment that my enemies, the example of my admiration. I could this be like look at this funny bag. I m right. How do you know how to sail founding read? I just know: there's a girl seems like there's a cultural fascination with american culture, but I guess we officially Jake, I'm curious it s, because that's a backlash of the repression of western culture try ask another definitely elements of american culture that have wide purchase around the world and in China to mean

the american movies up very well in China with a little editing here and there. You have a basketball is huge again and that's got a funny that that survived the boxer uprising, because that was imported by american mission. It's kind of interesting that such a big deal with its huge, so yeah yeah, there's definitely elements of american culture that have purchased, thereby I'm not sure the degree to which political values half purchase over there. So we'd have to draw a distinction between Rhino America where a lot of culture that seems to export really well political culture, chequered history on the visit to say the least. I think we may have solved all the world's problem. I think so we did it. Finally, move get peace on earth and goodwill towards man all yet in general, so go

so you have upon Cast Maria. I didn't yourself yeah TIM talks. Politics is the pod gas to when talks Politic, yeah attacks. The cookie sounds TIM taxpayers dim tax bond similar. It is my shadow. You gotta do like the MILAN to Moscow. Not that I am I right I'll. Keep that when I am dead with doctoral stays, anything have more time to start new Pike S or something to think about that, but yet and tax fraud This is the pod cast an idea. I do a weekly Us Scott Subscriber newsletter on current events in world news, and I I take It- They come away to present the new cycle in a more balanced and less maddening way and utilise international new sources and think tanks and stuff, like that kind of given broad sense of what

went on in the world, so the two things I do and people were can go. Attempts are facts that come to find out more about it. No, I should actually mention people who subscribe, who listened the Babylon Bee, get a three percent discount on the newsletter. If the good TIM talks politics that substance dot com backslash, be we can put them on the screen. I think gap, click it for our unity and will be forced to type all that out, though but Dan yeah. So much gather links alive, ass retirement, I'll Asian was by we next to your story. Celia I'm just like a hang upon them, but there are, but by coming up next? For Babylon Bee subscribers, which questions he might know, these cuz he listens to the show. Have you ever met Carmen grew up Catholic. So

I mean yeah, my entire town there is. There are elements of eventually culture Catholic current did you see, Armenians are filled the heavier benefits by yeah. My first experience, our short term missions trip. There was like a game bite or something we're doing street them. There was a common concept. Is another country, although who knows maybe he had to go to enjoy this hard hitting interview become of Babylon, be subscriber to hear the rest of this conversation? Go to Babylon, be dog com, slash plans for full length, freefall, gas, Kyle and Ethan. I would like to thank Seth Dylan for paying bills Adam forward for creating their job, the other writers, sport tirelessly pitching headlines subscribers listener until next time. This is Davy, Andrea, the voice of Babylon,