From the New York Times, I'm my borrow. This is for the past year, my colleague Paul Mozart. Has been investigating the story of a determined to free his mother from repressive system of detention and surveillance in Turn China. Today you're from the mother herself for the first time its Monday December night. Support we have been checking it with you about your reporting on the way Worse in China for about a year- and we Talking to you about one family in particular remind us who fair cat job- that is and what we know about his family, so forget joy, that is,

I'm a weaker family who live in western China place called Shin John and the workers are a muslim minority that the chinese government views as a threat in part because of their Islam. They see him as an extremist presence in the country and they are built this extensive system of repression that includes electronic surveillance and also massive system of camps where more than a million people have been locked up. Many have fled. The country to other places like the United States, fair cat, is one of those and forget, is kind of emerged as an important voice in the United States trying to raise awareness and talk about what happened because he and his family got out around two thousand and eleven, but his mother- there was not able to follow them and Two years ago, fair cats mother goes missing. It turns out. She falls into the system of repression and is pulled into the re education camps there.

It's been quite a ride, because when we first talked him, he had no idea where his mother was the unseen or for more than a year and then are we talked to him. You know we put out a show earlier this year and a week later, his mother, all of a sudden, appears right. Remember when he's able to talk to her for the first time and more than a year and a half you can talk to her over the phone I remember after we published our first episode about fair cats, mother, the government made a show of releasing or from the cap and letting her but her house, but really she's, not actually free. Right so she's in her house, but she being monitored at all times. There's care in check points just outside. You have local government officials and police checking in honour on a daily basis when she talks to her family, their monitoring, what she says: she's the parrot, this sort of propaganda and meanwhile her hair

deteriorated severely in the camps when she came home, Ferrok had actually thought she might be on her death bed. So that's the world she's living in at this moment. Hey forgotten, spoke, I hate and now again yes Jimmy Couple minutes what you find quite rightly ok- and I called him again last week- because I wanted to talk to him about the decision he made to do something stream we risky in order to save his mother so yeah. How are you holding up? I know it's kind of a hard hard week last week. Had my appearance happened, but ill here over the last few months there has been growing increasingly anxious about. How is mother is doing, even though, like I can talk to my mom, like every single day. Right now, I dont know if I was able to get any news about. My mom's condition

they talk on the phone nearly every day, but its clear that is not being honest with him, and he can't really be fully honest with her many of us. We have that worry that scared that, but really might hear that called mom He doesn't really know how she actually is you. He doesn't know her state of mind. He doesn't know how bad her health is an ending, most importantly, he doesn't understand what happened to her, because there's just no ability to speak honestly about the past couple of years. I really want to know like what really happened because saying that people are being tortured. It made me think my mom is facing those kind of situation, and so I was talking to him and he asked if could go. Try to see her see how she is, and also potentially find out what happened to her till he wants you to go there and physically check it out

Yeah. Exactly and what's important understand is that we have some stories from people who are in the camps, but very few people who have gotten out recently have been able to talk about it. So this also a chance to really shine light on. What's happened, Ass few years from somebody who is inside, but there is a real risk, Really important understand that by me going there, I put his family You know under risk I put him under skinny just for me to shop a door and knock is incredibly dangerous. So with that in mind. What are you decide to do? no, I told him it would be really really hard, but I would try to get there and see her and because it would be so dangerous work. I had to tell his mother and he can't just tell her over the phone directly like hey the New York Times is coming right. I mean that would set off of alarm bells thy crazy, so so what he does

is very clever. He's on a video call with her. I vote on a white piece of paper, saying that mom, like I'm, sending someone through you to talk to you and they should look at the paper I was holding and then the next second. Yes, a kind up, I put her finger from Mars, like and she puts her finger up to her lips kind of two shook him as if a guy got it, and then she understood and shag rate and shakes her head that it's ok and then he takes sign away, so she now knows you're on your way. Yes and Port youth taught told me several times just how hard it is to go to this part of western chinaware wiggers arm. So how likely is it then? could actually get to work out small, a a part of me, thought it was almost pointless. I felt like I was kind of going at her into trouble and do it

without accomplishing anything, because you have to understand the moment you land in the city and shit. Are they checked? The flight manifests so they know if a foreign journalists name is on their. They meet you at the airport. They meet you at the baggage claim right and if they don't do that, the moment you get in a cab, they have three cars following you away from the airport should see what you're doing and I've never had that not be the case in young and multiple trips, there So, given all that, I know I'm not thinking that it's gonna be possible to get here without being noticed, and just I'd right into the house of somebody who is under close surveillance, but I also thought it was, the try, because he was so desperate that you know why? had to try So how do you plan to get around the authorities in this case? the longer you deal with this, the more you develop your little tricks. I take the earliest flight possible by

at the last minute so that they don't have time to kind of screen the flight so arrive and. Cats, moms town around seven, a dot m and it's always kind of tentative when I come out of the plane, because I'm looking around saying: okay, who are the thugs where the guys were going to follow me this time and I get out and look around and there's nobody obvious. Dumping rain. So I go and get an umbrella and I'm kind of lingering in the store trying to see. There's nobody walk, the street night gettin a cab and the goes and am looking behind- understand no cars there. So somehow I've gotten through the airport part without buddy picking me up. So your tricks are working here for the first time since in I've been going there all of a sudden, I'm alone

ok. I think we found it so am I was on the other. We pull up to the address that fair to have the house. It is grandmother and fair cats, aunt answers. We're gonna go fair. Catalonia there is, is on uncle and his grandmother and so show me into a room at inside raised platform are a bunch of rugs and their layin prostrate is fair cats. Mother

she's in a lot of pain because she's had a far recently you so weak, coming out of the camps. That just a few days before she fell and they think she fractured vertebral column was, but she insists on sitting up for interview lie below what belong and you know there- I am next to her. You know this post the fair cat hasn't been able to see in a decade. We must above all of them, and I can see your facing she's looks a lot like fair cat. You know they ve the same thrift, cheek bones and and the same eyes I formally what good Gaza prepared the Mamma the lava cheap sort of goals, my hand, and she says that you know I have the smell of fair cat on me and at her son is

is her cushioning because I'm there and he I've, been sent by him and she says thank you for coming and all the while you're thinking how long do we have because you know their surveillance, Rio, the police are going to come in checking on her. So what you do They forget. How are you let me? Well, I get fair tat on the phone because he's gonna help me translate and talk to her. Here's Milton than usual here's your mother and I but up means swallowed up in sheep, and we start asking her questions forget. Can we now ask your and just tell her that she can speak

firstly to me and that I will protect this recording and get to the world, but it can she talk about? What's happened over the past two years to her, and can you see if she can maybe talk about that a little bit although I would give them their up whenever a bicycle, but not about followed Schneider. Who knows what else could hear all about And she starts telling us what happened three years ago. The movement can one shows that the numbers, but as us upon them, telling the story of the camps

then do the warm enjoy? No one of them looks up around. Should Burgage Glinda canvas bag? You are you sure that other guy Turkish haven't looked over, She had to the great occasion cap in the beginning in twenty seventeen, for a little while she was taken to a camp to study and studies of the EU, commission for being locked away, but the carbon? Let those camps or border areas, Now. I believe that other powers that we know that their because verbally, but she gets back out because she's quite sick. Again. Twenty eight February she was sent back to the camp again, but then early twenty eighteen, they come for her again and this she doesn't come out therein giant take. Does it in

two dingy yet all of a sudden she's effectively in what looks like a concentration camp and she says conditions are much much worse. There there's way too many people in a ten or twenty people in a cell sometimes often times, people have to use buckets for toilet. She says the guards are much rougher with the people who are there so there's more violence category seven. Thirty, nine, sure I said to the present day. Delegation will work much harder than the count, but things get even worse for her, because fair cat is for to speak out about her in the United States, and it gets to the point that he late some are so well known that in late twenty eighteen he actually gets a meeting with the United States Secretary of State MIKE Palm Pale, and that's it big deal, it becomes news and partially because of that she's punished, and that means she get sent to me

work stream facility. It's either a prison or a detention centre, and there she says, was interrogated and tortured and the guards works really rough with her, and we ve heard reports from other people in these facilities and they are much much harsher than other types of camps again they island I wish during questioning, people can be locked two chairs or chain to walls and there's even darker stories of women being sexually assaulted or raped ghastly store worries of isolation, chambers, people's fingernails ripped out, and there are also reports, of forced injections. People report the day emerged from the key system. Sterile though there been accusation the potentially there's four sterilizations going on, is well going straight, but she was better and in particular, very import for her. She's no longer allowed her medications, so she,

Starts having a lot of health problems, the blood pressures really out of control, her face swells. She starts to be to talk Her tongue is swollen well get any treaty already invited and nobody's trying to fix this, because this is very much a place where you they are to be punished. Member credit go them here was a job get back sure. But I'm the only this sum you have to imagine how unique this moment is. She can't fully sit up because she's in too much pain sewer, lying next to each other, and I'm passing a phone back and forth with her and she's telling the story of what has happened to her for the first time needed to muddle I'll cut, pump up the London and halfway across

the world on the other end of the phone is fair cat and what he's hearing for the first time is the truth. He's finally actually hearing what happened to his mother and. I'm sitting there next to her and part. He is totally overwhelmed with emotions about this, but a part of me is, absolutely terrified of what this could bring for her two didn't journal yet tinge Condominium. Oh which, like the worse the details are that she's telling you the more afraid you're becoming for her for any one. In that room, who is hearing the conversation exactly all the while it feel safe in away it's weird, because you're inside this room, it's a beautiful room. The doors are painted with Turquoise Richard rugs hanging from the walls.

Here. The rain on the outside in almost feels like you're in this cocoon, and you know for a second- you can kind of trick: herself into believing your back in history and the way things used to be, and everything was calm and pleasant, and you can kind of spend your days whiling time on these carpets. But then I hear voices outside and bigger company. Fair cat says I think you have some company and. I looked at the front door and there's a curtain covering it in a kind of gets pulled back I a man I haven't seen before and then as soon as he sees me, he disappears and what I'm worried at that point about is that the game is up there. We ve been caught, and so we all go into panic mode. So, ok, sir, since then? Maybe we should stop right now area

I need to save these recordings because if their officials they're going to want to delete them, yo aren't you hang up only took his. I need to preserve these videos they can these. These audio certainly do that. First, we by all the way back. The daily, is supported by tedium error trade, theirs. Our ally on tee. I that's why tedium merit It created a learning experience. I will actually learn with you. Curated from there ass library of exclusive content, it customized to fit you investing goals, interests and needs. So you get exactly the information you need and none of the information you don't get started tedium, Eritrea, dot, com, slash education, that's tv, a merry trade dot com, slash education. I'm Wendy Door and I'm an editor on the daily. For me, of my adult life, I thought of the New York Times as

giant news machine that spit out news stories all day, long kind of like a vending machine and I'm embarrassed to say that it wasn't really until I came to work here at the times that I started to think about the reporters behind those news stories and what it takes Get the story in the first place. Sometimes these reporters risked their lives. Sometimes they talk to us at two in the morning. Sometimes they call us from a war zone and not we do, they tell us what's happening on the ground wherever they are, but they also give us the context that we need to understand it. If you like, and his family see this. So I can I can get out of here now. If you owe me, did you sleep? the thing that you can do to support them and the daily is to subscribe to the New York Times. If you like, to do that go to and why times dot com. Slash subscribe support. What happens once you turn off the recording well in everybody's freaked out forget

I have some clarity. It's to local, like party members who I guess, help with them old people's homes, sometimes so the roof was leaking a little bit of your grandmother's house today, come over to have a look, but now the I've seen me were worried that they're gonna call the police, so the man who poked his head in Is a local government official Communist Party member checking up on her and he's Esther by claiming that he was looking into a leaky roof because it was raining out, but in Rio he's a part of the surveillance apparatus, and so he quickly Lee and we know he's probably going to go report the whole thing and it's just a matter of time before the police show up. Ok sure we'll see how long it they feel my mom you, you have a right now, she's she answered the family discussing what to do. They have to decide and it really is informative about the different ways for TAT and his family. See there

so I can I can get out of here now? If you owe me to just leave, because if I leave, maybe they won't find me here and they won't know to fair, had says stay, I don't I don't maybe you could see what you gonna do or did I say you help the foreign journalists there, no matter what they do, it will be good for you to be there and watch and report on it, but his family thinks the exact opposite. They want me to get the hell out of there because they think that my presence is Threatened the danger and the longer I'm there, the more therein danger and so in the kind. Last few minutes. We try to get in a last question. Can we see if your mother answer one or two more questions figure. Can you ask her tell that you told me that that she taught you to speak out and to speak your mind, to say the truth in that

you ve been doing in America, and I just want you to ask her whether she thinks you ve done right by doing that whither. She believes you know truly that that is the road thing to do, and so I ask for cats, mother what she makes of what he's been doing alarm, but on a two percent. Now I know that you should do. Is mother and then get family reunited again, and then I'm proud of you What did it again? I still think that you did the right thing and I believe in you and she tells him that he's incredibly proud of him in that she raised him to be this way and that she understands. Why he's I this in that it's out of love for her that he's doing this They feel to hear that

It's an scared. I think I feel yeah I know, but I'm still I'm ill gotten over yeah, I think it's just an incredibly important moment, because fair cat is doing this crusading. He doesn't have support from many key when his community in the United States, because we there are afraid, but at this moment tells him. No! You know what you're doing. I know that this comes from the right place and that we're trying something here and I'm proud of you, but while they, happening. The mood is changed. Okay, so several different parties members and in local officials came, we don't have the police yet, but her family is quite worried. So I have downloaded according to different places so there will be hard for them to find them and trying to send them off. The internet is slow, hears all work, and now I'm packing up

and I am going to leave because they decided that it's better for me to go than to stay, probably been going, so I don't know but I had to respect their wishes and I took off. Trying to kind of the formalities of leaving in the sort, pushed me wages and get out of two way: it's raining which itself folks, you can keep an umbrella low over your head and natural, much attention, I find it you're out of them being followed or not, and when I walk out that door, the usual suspects are, there are a couple of sketchy, looking guys who said following me down the street and and have led them around the rest of the day across the city. And I went to the airport, got on a plane and flew out.

And then, a week later, fair cat calls me, and he tells me that the chinese government, the chinese toys, got really bad because of the way. I said, though, Does the fact that my mom, the police in the area have told him that if he were This is the recordings that we took. They will kill her. Oh my god in charge you they say that no sir just kill my mom and so fair cat saying in a please don't recording and say. Of course, you know we right, we will release them at all. If you don't think it's right. And over the next few weeks there's more negotiations and they kind of back off that threat, innovation, says, you know what let's do this: let's do what let's release these recordings? Let's talk about. This would share it with the world.

And so I guess what what made you kind of say. I will we should go ahead and do it because it's really hard. So I know that that is the way that they are scaring me, but they ve got me won't be they underestimate me many times that I'm not the person who get scared easily. My bonnet already on the international media picture or name is on the web and especially after you ve been here. Talk to my mom and if anything happens, to hurt, I think that's gonna cost more trouble to the chinese government, then making asylum, but I mean you know they effectively threatened to kill your mother. If we

continued with this project, and I guess I'm curious about how you kind of went through the mental process to eventually go forward with all of this anyway scary, but doing dead. I told my mom like long, but some people are saying that they can do some that's up to you and she said I saw everything I have seen everything I dont worry about anything anymore. That's what you said the girl, Being forced to say that people are stopping in all of you and then seeing girls are being, rape is easy. Died then live in a place in that situation, so you should have lost everything. There is no fear anymore. I guess.

This is the kind of paradox of speaking out. On the one hand, you have the government saying, if you do this, we will kill your mother On the other hand, you know If you don't speak out, then maybe not will change and maybe you'll never see her again. There are a couple times said I already gave up from being able to see my mama light. So don't get me wrong by said, is the third the killing each other really scary? anymore and fair camp. He told me the story. Anything really shows how fearless she's been in some ways. So yesterday the global Times police doubtful article about life. These. He told me right after my visit media ran in article basically

eating family members of him calling him, ah, the scum of the family while and he told his mother. This I say like Monday, just say that I became a of the family and then you all feel shaped by my action to ensure that no, that is not the case. I didn't tell them dead, then she really upset, and then he said. I just couldn't take it and you know she said you know the next day some party members came my house and then I got really mad them and then I cried them and I told them that like why you guys would become a Sunday. The scum because he was just doing with a son, should do to save his man because he lost me. Then he waited hoping. You guys really believe me, but you guys did it. So he's not the scum of assembly are proud of my son and I yelled at them, and I told them you know how dare you say that my son is discovered the family and am incredibly proud of him. I've been proud of him.

Since I gave birth to him and he will always be my son. Don't you dare call him, and make people think that I think that about him, that's a pretty marketable scene of a woman and her different screaming at the local chinese officials, Yeah and somebody who has just no power in comparison to them, I can't I can't imagine the courage that my mom had that issue able to tell them on your face that they didn't want and it just shows the power of this moment the way each of them make the other more brave and strong, and then it just makes me think that, unlike mom like fun, like my mom is such a courageous person, she were able to question them on their faith, to explain the way that they call me a scumbag.

The family and assisting. You know incredible to kind of see that happening in the face of such overwhelming state power and ultimately violence towards their entire people and then, after all, that, like she'd, been through from her almost dead but should feel proud of me the shift of boys, what I did and then she agrees with what I do, what I speak out. It gives me the courage and understand that same reason that I I didn't back on with its work, had thank you again and good luck with your mother, and I will be in touches as as the story continues. Thank you. So much take her quite by really so much of what we know about. What's going on in John comes from these sort of brief moments of courage and these individual. Those who are willing to testify and speak out. You can't subpoenaed

chinese government. You can't go in demanding documents, you can't get interviews with top officials where they're going to speak honestly and so breathing is this. You know incredible game of investigation and a lot of the reporting is just trying to figure out kind of tiny trace things whatever you can, and so we had no documentation. Of what was going on on the inside until we did, The New York Times got its hands on hundreds of pages of internal chinese government documents that really gave us the most detailed picture. We could have possibly asked for four, where the camps system came from, how it developed how Beijing tried to hide it, the store Three is darker and more detailed and nuanced than we ever could have imagined on tomorrow's daily the store.

Read that emerges from those secret documents. What, if email gave your whole team a place to connect, even if you are working from home, then it wouldn't be email at all break if your silo inbox and work as a team in slack conversations happen in channels where you share messages in real time with every one on your team, no matter where they are in the world and when people research and with an emergency or comment, you'll, know received your message: slack shoes, Our way to work gets done, that slack dot com.

Here's what else you need ten nerdy. Let's start with that, terrible shooting in Pensacola. We know at least one of the people that the saudi officer killed was a recent graduate of the. U S Naval academy. Did he target Americans, but first of all its very true you can submit our condolences, got the families on Sunday federal investigators said operating on the assumption that Fridays deadly shooting. At a U S military base in Florida, which was carried out by a member of the Royal Society AIR Force, was an act of terrorism. The gun, who was the bees as part of a U S, training programme for foreign officers killed three Americans and injured eight others, but for all these types of programmes, exchanges are very important or national security. The ability to bring forth

In short, a train with us to understand american culture is very important to US buildings in an interview on fox Sunday, the? U S, secretary of Defence, Mark Esper, defended the training programmes. And said there were no plans to shut them down, that's it for them likeable bar see tomorrow. This episode of the daily is supported by the new Showtime original series: penny dreadful city of angels when a gruesome murder shocks. Nineteen thirty, eight LOS Angeles detected Tioga Vega and his partner Louis mentioned, or find themselves grappling with nazi spies, crooked politicians and powerful supernatural forces Natalie Dormer Daniels of Otto unevenly STAR in penny, dreadful city of angels, preparing April twenty six, only on Showtime the daily lives.

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