From New York Times, unlike Albemarle this israeli today over them a few days social media companies have raised to remove the president and those who organise the attack on the cap from their platforms? My colleague sheriff wrangle, whether that will diminish the chance of violence or make it harder to prevent its Wednesday January? Thirteen sure, last time that we talk to you, you told us about how, so quarters of present Trump were preparing and planning online in very knowable ways for what became a violent attack on the capital on January six, and so I want to ask you what happened to those same

people in the days since and whether we now feel that the risk of future violence is higher or lower than before. So the same people that took part in those riots on January sixth are now trying to find their footing in this new world. What happens when a group of people do? What really they thought was impossible and breach the halls of Congress, make it inside hold court there for hours and then leave, many two posts there. Videos and photographs are mine. They want to build on that momentum and they are currently trying to figure out what the best way is to grow their cause, which is really to see Donald Trump serve. Another I'm an office to see in their minds the rightful president assume control of the government. So what does that actually look like in the wake of A physical attacks, as you said, was in its own terrifying way, successful, but resulted in

tremendous online crackdown. So in the hours after the siege use, a lot of these guys going on Twitter and Facebook in their posting Salvatore images, showing how often they work as the speaker of the house for roaming, the halls of Congress and their there clearly really excited about what they ve done but by the next morning some of these accounts start to disappear night Twitter announced at push more than seventy thousand accounts associated with Cuba, on content at first address, taking down photos

and videos on places like Facebook and Twitter Facebook. Meantime saying today they removed over six hundred militarized social movement. President Donald Trump has found himself effectively de plot formed around this time from himself is knocked off one social media platform after another from Facebook, Instagram Youtube and twitch, and then whole groups, twitter accounts with tens of thousands. Followers realize they ve gone too far and that social media isn't going to allow them to post these overtly violent images online and they start to migrate to more fringe places, like God and parlor. The new social platform parlor, which has drawn conservatives swells far right. Extremists saw a surge in downloads, rising to never On an apple, the app store, and so they think parlors can be the answer. They think President Trump is going to join the mare. But then this morning parlor went dark after losing access to Amazon web services which host the content

within a day? We find that that's taken down as well. It was being hosted, Amazon Amazon very quickly, pull the plug and all of a sudden parlors inaccessible, and so, in a matter of days they find themselves booted, not just stuff of twitter and Facebook, but now off parlour and gab, which is one of the only site sort of online remaining, is so flooded with requests by new users that it's just unbearably slow. It takes minutes, sometimes five six minutes to load a single page on gab we're. So it's basically just over clogged with right wing. Conservatives have been booted off these other by firms. Yeah cab becomes. If you remember the days of dial up internet, will you just kind of sit and watch a page loads for minutes at a time? That's what gab starts to feel like, and so they realise that they have to move elsewhere.

And this idea builds up Y know they go to the encrypted parts of the web to acts that have already been around for a long time like telegram and signal and build a following there and it happens so quick. I was in one group for the proud boys, which is of far right wing militia. I watched them grow. Eight thousand members in a matter of days and what are using happening in these encrypted platforms in the signal and the telegrams as all, conservative activists and agitators and plotters are now flooding in so you. Imagine the web as lake. You know, as this one big ball and on the surface of it, you have Facebook and twitter and all the places that you and your friends family hang out, and then you go one layer deeper and maybe there's parlour. Guy, which on another lesson, but anybody can join them really one layer deeper than that. You have the APS like telegram and signal the harder to find you have to know exactly what you're looking for you have to join, that can be done.

Aided by messages and internal codes and language after really know that you want to be there in order to join so when people get there, they suddenly become part of this inner circle, Miss Intergroup or anything hose it's an encrypted channel. You can say whatever you want, you can assume that law enforcement will not be able to trace it back to you and you feel like you're in this, like small cloistered community of like minded individuals who believe the same things you do and who want the same things you want, and so their language their rhetoric just becomes day after day more extreme. They start to see themselves as the true believers, the truce soldiers of Trump who have been kicked off and banned and silenced by the Extreme platforms and have now found their way to these encrypted channels where they can plan what they say is real revolution, and so what is the nature of their planning and of this embittered and may be somewhat

emboldened conversation in the days since January. Sixth, at this point, there are several dozen militia on telegram and signalled that I'm following and I'm watching their plans, but really but they're all over them up. Some of them want to see a march on the capital on Washington DC starting ungenerous, sixteenth. Others are talking about marching on all fifty. U S, capitals and in the sub text of those conversations, they're saying things like come armed at your own discretion, and so it is clear that there is a real opportunity and potential for violence there. They ve also talked about efforts to have protests in front of tech. Companies like Google, twitter and Facebook, and I've seen calls for actions against news organisations from the New York Times to see an end and the Washington Post, so the really still making up their mind and what they want to do. Next, I wonder- and I wanna be careful here, because I dont want to romanticize, in any way or promote. But is there anything. You can read from some of these exchanges that feels eliminating in Miami

And one of the exchanges I saw last night that I thought what sort of telling about their level planning, and the way they think about this was between two members in one militia group wanted to travel across state lines, they wanted to march on a capital building and they were going back and forth among themselves about what arms could they legally Carrier Cross state lines, and so there searching through local laws to say right? One, this state such and such a weapon is legal in that state. Is this other weapon if we transported across state lines and we get stopped by a highway? Patrolman are in trouble dont amateurs, I think, there's the sense that they don't know what they're doing or that there are acting off the cuff, and that isn't the case by some of these groups. There is very serious planning happening. What what what you're describing reminds me of the planning that you said you saw before January six this. Rather, detailed discussion of what could be brought on a plane to Washington, could be hidden in. It sounds pretty far.

On the page until you realize that that planning happened, and it resulted in this assault on the capital right analysing exactly that's in discussion. The only difference I would note now is that there is still on the fence about whether or not they going to do it in their planning. For this there can Getting kind of different dates there things should we do it on the sixteenth? Should we go on the nineteenth? Should we may be wait until the twentieth and I think a lot about confusion is because until now they have seen themselves as taking their marching orders from President Trop when Trump tweeted that genuine sixth was a key day that Congress ratifying the votes was a key moment. That, for them was the sign. I need it, but that was me to come to the capitol right now in the wake of what I think in their minds as a sign off from the president. They have been arguing among themselves about what they should do now

so they have nuclear orders is time and they have no real clear leadership. It sounds like sir and was interesting. Entry is having people will be studying the effects of this for years to come, because when they rebooted off places like Facebook and Twitter they also took away the ability for these groups to kind of sea one another and transparently talk and see what the others were planning and now, as they become fractured. You see these kind of disparate efforts happening and Their struggling because a conversation yesterday morning where one of them said I'm so confused, just tell me what to do already. Do you want me to come to Washington on the sixteenth? Want me to go to Virginia on the seventeenth. I need to know how much gas I've gotta put in my car and I need fuel reserves and he was really frustrated because he felt like he wasn't getting the clear orders that he used to get from centralized groups in places,

Facebook and Twitter. It feels like the deeply forming a piece groups the on line crackdown. We have seen over the past few days since January. Six has left all of these people less organised because of the way that they ve been spread out across these encrypted. Services. But does that mean there are Fewer of them engaged in this or that now really knowable. I don't think we know if there are fewer engaged, the definitely trying to attract more people. I think that the leaders of some of these militias are really worried right now that they won't be able to attract new followers in the same way that they can.

When they can post on Twitter and Facebook and they need new followers to survive. We need people to be constantly coming into their movement, so I watch this interesting thing happened earlier this week, where there was a discussion on how to attract people from Q and on the conspiracy movement into harmless. As of course, there were many key on supporters at the rally on January six, some of them right it and storms, the capital building, and so for some of these militias. They see this kind of ripe audience. Of potentially hundreds of thousands of Americans who believe in the queue and on conspiracy who might be willing right now and appoint a frustration to joint militias and actually take action on some of those conspiracies if they ve been believing for years now

and so what are these organisers doing? To try to recruit members of cuban on supporters of cuban Andras baseless conspiracy, their self consciously adopting a lotta, the Cuban on language that the world is run by this deep state cabal and that they are secretly harvesting young children trafficking in young children and that if people join militias they the fight that and are trying to draw them into their militias by putting the online the digital equivalent of calling card everywhere. They can, and they would say, follow me everywhere because we don't know what's going to come down next, once you follow them there once wrong, they're, encrypted telegram, channel or signal they didn't give you six or seven alternate account

to follow just in case that one gets taken down, because they know that is very likely that some of these will get taken down. I'm struck sure by just how adaptable the leaders of this are by how much they are planning for the next crackdown and it feels like the crackdowns are just leading them to broaden the number of places they think they need to be. It's not really sobbing their planning for a long term war and These are people who additional natives they have grown up on the internet. How to them formed these communities when they were teenagers and so being very online and very flexible about how they are online is just part of their dna. It's part of how they think about the world

they know they need that in order to be successful I'll, be right back. Perhaps he resolved to be more present this year, fear, family and friends and for yourself- and you think that Turning to meditate might help it would that you might find that your mind has other plans. Waking up is a guide understanding, you're mine for the purpose of living more fulfilling life. It is much

more than a meditation app and over forty thousand five star reviews attest to this to experience a free month go to waking up dot com, slash, daily or download the app today high the Sydney heartburn. I help make the daily one night. It's ten p m. My colleagues were here. The next phase episode are looking for a speech. This piece of TAT that they really need to make the episodes thing. They tracked it down to university library and that library happens to be close to my house. So I hop into a car I had across town and get to the library they're about to close. I'm copying the tape up. My computer sending off to my colleagues working on the episode it makes it to show the next day. It really helps make it shine. The whole affair is a success and I'm telling that's because I dont think people realise that that level of teamwork and dedication goes into every episode that you here of the daily that sort of collaboration takes people they takes

resources it take support from subscribers. So that's why I'm asking you to subscribe to the New York Times, so we can keep bring you the daily every day you're. A very important question would seem to be: has this crackdown that you just described as sending these organizers of January six off into many of the darkest, owners of the internet has dad made it harder for long force meant to do its job which is to monitor their planning their discussions. There thinking slowly, as these groups become fractured and spread not just to different parts of the web, but also to different channels within each up that they're using. That is that many more places that law enforcement have to constantly be monitoring. I spend Where's my day, looking at these telegram and signal Channels- and even I find it hard to keep up with the pace of communication. In some of these networks, there was

one group I was in this morning, a Cuban on group, which I think I counted close to four hundred miles. Just in the span of an hour and if you're, a law enforcement, you're trying to monitor and figure out, if someone is really making a bomb threat or from other persons actually carrying a weapon? Keeping up with the sheer volume has got to be really difficult? Is that to say that perhaps it was easier at all to Molly are these groups, when everyone understood that they were congregated in one or two places, for example a parlor which felt like a hotbed. In the past couple of months, I spoke to someone from the eye a couple days ago, who has been tracing far right groups the last decade or so, and we do he described. It is actually much like we think of it as reporters, which is what you saw on Twitter and Facebook was just the surface level, but it gave you clues to what they were thinking on what.

We're saying, and so if there was a new date that they were rallying around like January six, for instance, you would see that trickle out to Facebook and Twitter, and you would know what to look for and other places it was like they were, leaving behind little bread crumbs of what they were actually planning, and some other place is another. That's gone. It's that much harder for law enforcement. They have three penetrating these groups at a much deeper level to be able to gain the same type of intelligence, and these networks are end end encrypted. So you have to be in them to see what's being said, but even once you're in them tracing them back to us If a person is difficult most of these people using burner phones there not using their real names, they are signing up to these accounts through ways that mask their identities, and I'm going to note that these networks telegram signal they ve been around for years for analysts use them human rights workers use them their incredibly

important as a safe means to communicate, but no one knows what to do when they start to get used for people planning for violence, so what kind of hope federal and local law enforcement have in really policing these encrypted channels that you are describing especially some remembering what you said earlier that many The organizers are envisioning action in multiple state capitals, so part of the room, The organizers and moving towards this approach of launching marches and protests in all fifty state capitals is that they really want to try and make it as hard as possible for local law enforcement to plan ahead and stop them. They know that the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security and local police officers have some expertise and tracking them. I might be ninety his telegram. They know how to use signal, they use them for investigations, but imagine

your local police officer and a state like a higher Pennsylvania, and you know, have to follow dozens of signal groups and perhaps hundreds of telegram channels to figure out exactly what these militias are planning next by dividing their efforts like this, the really making it as hard as possible for law enforcement to decide what to do ahead of these rallies. So that is the police sign of this sure I want to turn first a moment to the participants that you have been studying in these new dispersed channels and whether you think that they see themselves as more capable and determined of future of once knowing that they were Missis and where do you use but successful on January? Six, do they feel emboldened did being able to get inside the capital make them? but they can do it again and that they should try to do it again, based on what you're saying absolutely

among the most french and extreme militia groups that exists in the United States. There is actually a feeling that they have been emboldened by their success. On January sixth, It was successful beyond their wildest dreams and they see those objects of them not just entering the capital but then leaving as a great brooding tool? Some of that I will. I was just a tiny bit has been mitigated by the arrest of those rioters in following January six and as we ve seen more rest. Building there have been more mentions in some of these private groups of oh wait. It looks like that's the IRA. Really getting serious and cracking down on anyone who entered the capital building, but it's an afterthought. I mean it. The majority of them think that they got away Scot Free, and now it's like how much further can we go More will we be able to get away with, and I have to mention that this,

Media crackdown is in no way seen as real punishment will. They were expecting Facebook and twitter crackdown on them. They ve been talking about this for some time and again would happen, but most fringe kind of militia groups right now, among some of them, it's almost a badge of honor to get kicked off a facebook and twitter. It, shows that you really got under their skin and that you is successful and that they had to get rid of you because you're just two powerful, and so you ve seen a lot of boasting among some of these. Oh well, I had twenty Facebook accounts and they shut down all twenty of them. Aren't I, all powerful that somewhere, like Facebook, had to shut down all my accounts and train diminish my voice. This is real sense of kind of first amendment right. Speaking trampled on that is actually driving them to think even more boldly about what they can do on places like telegram and signal when they are being monitored and they're, not scared of being shut down So to return to where we began and given everything that you have told us.

Do you think of the end of the day that the crackdown that has followed January sixth, taking these people also well known social media platforms and taking their campaign for their trump off these platforms? well has that made it more or less likely that in the coming days, there's going to be more violence, I think that there are in a moment of decision right now about what comes next. This week, they haven't made up their minds being on a private in some ways, emboldens them to say whatever they want and to try to plan for the absolute sort of worst case scenarios. But, on the other hand, there is a ton of me attention on them right now, even though the FBI and the police are watching them, and so they could decide to buy their time and what do you mean by their time in the short term there trying to figure out if they can actually stop Biden from becoming present.

And whether we can do something on the next week that allows trumped assume office. A lot of them are saying that that's not possible their kind, coming to the realisation of this moment that what they planned on January sixth drew too much attention and that if they do anything of next week, the going to get arrested and instead there taking a long term view and they're saying we ve attracted a lot of attention to our cause. We can recruit new members and come back in a year from now. For two years now and take everyone by surprise and now that there are all these encrypted channels now that they have flocked to places like telegram or signal, they have found a place where they feel they can plan and recruit, which will at some point

in time be away from the prying eyes of journalists and police and ass the eye and say you really seen them embrace this kind of safe havens that they have created for themselves online, which can become a real community for them going forward. And we what you're, describing and reed. Terrifying is a kind of long simmering rebellion and from what you're saying it may be. No no, but it may be too late to truly undermine it and read it in. I think these groups are here to stay, and the thing is: if, if people were serious about stopping them, there would have been action taken four years ago when they were on places like Facebook.

Twitter that would have been the moment were now four years later, whither so entrenched in their beliefs, and there now moving into a media ecosystem. Were there in a small group where everyone agrees with them, and everyone holds the same extreme values. Reaching them is going to be incredibly difficult, reaching them and like detecting, detecting lemon and maybe even convincing them that violence and insurrection and storming U S capital buildings is- is not the way forward. Sheriff? Thank you very much appreciate. Thank you for having it on Tuesday afternoon during his first public appearance, since the attack on the capital president Tromp expressed neither contrition nor regret for instigating the mob,

Instead, he called his remarks to supporters before the assault quote totally appropriate and the remark that seemed to raise the prospect of more violence. The president said that the efforts to impeach him today were causing tremendous anger. Meanwhile, as Trump supporters continued to flock to new online platforms, one of them elegant said that it had added twenty five million new users over the past few days will be right back. This new year, you may be excited about a new device, or

Focused on your new year's resolutions, make sure your new devices and your resolutions include one thing: Protection Norton, three sixty with lifelong gives, you device acuity, a VP and for online privacy and lifelike identity theft. Protection to help keep you safe. No one can prevent all cybercrime worried entities aft, but you can choose to cyber safe new year with Norton three sixty with my flock save twenty five percent of your first year at Norton, dot com, slash daily. Here's. What else you need? Ten thirty times reports that Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell the most powerful Republican in Congress, believes that President Tromp has committed impenetrable offences and is please that Democrats are moving to impeach Mcconnell has told associates that impeaching Trump will make it easier to purge the president from the Republican per

something that Mcconnell now welcomes after working closely with Trump for four years in another major defection, the chair of the House, Republican conference. Representative least Cheney of Wyoming said that she planned to vote to impeach. The president in esteem, Cheney said quote president of the United States, summoned the small assembled the smart and lit the flame of this attack the house is scheduled to begin debating its article of impeachment against strong at night a m this morning. A vote is expected later in the day, tidies episode was produced by air. Crop key asked the chapter VII and Alexander earlier. It was edited by peach coward,

M J Davis Lit and engineer by Chris would That's it for the daily on Michael Borrow, Seymour. Traditional medicinal believes that nature knows best. That's why they use no greater herbs, like accusation to support your immune system, eucalyptus to help give you a breath of fresh air and lemon ginger to promote healthy digestion every which way we turn mother It is there to greet us with her amazing healing plants, visit traditional medicinal dot com and use coat and Whitey twenty to see what makes their teeth so incredible