From the New York Times on Michael borrow. This is a daily in the wheat thins China imposed a strict new security law on Hong Kong. Dozens of people have been arrested there today. My calling Austin Ramsey speaks to the most high profile figure so far about his quest for freedom. And the future of Hong Kong. It's Thursday September throughout. I wasn't who exactly is Jimmy lie. Jimmy lie is a while media taken in Hong Kong,

Jimmy lie, has lived the Hong Kong dream. He went from rags to riches. He went for working at Hong Kong, sweatshop a business empire that is now worth around one billion dollars in it is first fortune and clothing. He's. Not media lie is the owner of Apple daily. Most I ve read newspapers in Hong Kong, he's a man about town he's politically active Mr lie is Hong Kong's most prominent pro democracy campaigners he's an outspoken critic of Beijing's policies in the territory, outspoken on afraid he has said to cause trouble to speak his mind and support the story of how he became, who he is very much a story upon calm. He reflects in many ways the promise of Hong Kong and now what's happening to him today.

Reflect some of the disappointments police in Hong Kong have arrested media mogul end democracy. Proponent Jimmy lie along with six other people under that contravene, So new national security law after the National Security law was passed, Jimmy lie was arrested and after whose held for about a day he was released and out on bail and he agreed to talk to us So one morning my colleague, kidney may- and I I I sitting- he went and visited him at his house- detail them nothing he's asking for more than ten years ago it's in the neighbourhood of old colonial houses, on the korean Peninsula and by

american standards. It's a large, suburban house, but by Hong Kong standards, where people have a couple hundred square feet to themselves at most its enormous and there's a gate anything going How long do you Mercedes outside their cars? We walk into his house I'm living room at the grand piano, many oil painting theirs lots of art on the walls, stocks of books, fresh flowers, and we wait to meet him for breakfast hissing that drink any very convey We now our ensue. Jimmy comes in upper his morning, work out

he's wearing sort of multimillionaire a casual with some grace. What pants and a seer Jack it's a white dresser and so we sit down. Table it sort of unknown and close next to his back yard and we start talking. Maybe if we could start where you re just ass, ask who answered by you

and where does Jimmy lies story start? Where do you begin this conversation, so Jimmy I was born in. Can time was not known as Congo in mainland China is born in nineteen? Forty eight just before the communist takeover of China. Nineteen, forty nine- and this is a very wrenching and difficult period for for a lot of people, including Jimmy lies family. There's campaigns to take. And property from about the wedding. Here only do I mean by very well, sir, as shipping business, my family were quite reach as widely became the enemy of the people, so I've been out old family was marginal rice and

by the time he's a young boy. There's a mass collectivization campaign called the great leap forward and it results in widespread starvation, because I was a very difficult time. It mainly because then it gives some food, but sometimes go hungry. You happy he fetched a bull rises or whatever and contribute to a famine and which tens of millions of people are believed to have died, and so, while he lives in Kent on which is a comparatively

A relatively well off place in China, it still quite difficult for him and his family while eyes. I work ass, a boy luggage carrier railway station candle. He told us that he was working at the railway station as a porter and that's where he started. First got the inspiration to go to Hong Kong. So I had access to people who came from how come those guys. I carried the package for the one they carry a package before guy who is fighting a bar of chocolate.

And he gave me to engage the thought occurred to me also that he either he ate almost half of it, and I was shy united turn around, and I guess it was this chocolate where you from uncle must be haven't And so he tried it. It was amazed him at the moment is that I have to get to this place. So if it is poor young man, wherever that topic came from, he wanted to be both through and it becomes clear and talking to him that food is a very big consideration. I period of starvation in China than I I told my mother ethical. My mother said you know you could oncologist

go into the mood. I would never see you again he's very dangerous and his parents are reluctant to allow him to go he's. Quite young is twelve, but he tells us that his mother also realised that there a real risk of him starting my mongering. She allow me to do just because you know you stay here. Maybe you you'll die from funding and I left and smoke under the fishing boats from but cow of the Hong Kong from a cow he makes his wound a fishing boat and he's smuggled. I a fishing boat and Hong Kong. The same, might arrive. I was taken to a factory as apply worker, the factory manager to those other kids to take me in the morning to breakfast in the first. I must so so much. Is the first and I realize food is actually freedom, but you have to choose.

I was so you motion about food that when, if it was a knight, eight, the first bite I stood up to eat it. I dont know why such nice pig in respect of food and there was poor but never fail. I was poor because I was so hopeful that you know what they are. Be rich ass, the beginning, and so what did you do with his new found sense of freedom, this land, where there is finally enough food. What happens next while he proved to be a very capable worker in this calling factory he works his way up. The factory I was not even Tony.

It was made a general manager of a factory or fear the people at the factory me letters. Then I stopped working with luck. I was able to perform a profit that they have been made in a couple of years when you're he uses his bonus money, invest him by his own factory, and so within a few years he's running his own factory is very impressive. Fer a man in his early twenties, yeah yeah, it's quite impressive. In many ways. It's a very Hong Kong story. It's an opportunity that he just would not have been afore howdy, state and mainland China. So what happens to this factory that he buys it does well, I was lucky, is manufacture for tee switch reproducing a lot for

Polo revelling in some other reliefs and he eventually creates, is on clothing company. When it was in New York, I was trying to name might retaining shot. He tells us this kind of wild story of how he came up with the name pursue company, then one day I met Somebody I knew in importing company. I gave me a few cookies he's gonna assails trip to New York and Cheese unwittingly, given it a pot cookie, I was told to do you know that the muddy water. So I just fair, so monkey

I went into a piece of peace, the quintessence munchies, with a bunch of pizza and then later on, finds a napkin in his pocket from this place, and it's called Giordano is to abandon This is where you tellin me in. I was stupid, not a thing that if I use you telling me people within it the Christopher military, he takes that name thinking that give this Hong Kong Clothing Company, a sort of a european flair and Giordano becomes a success, and it said it becomes the gap of Hong Kong and beyond Hong Kong. They open up in China and other parts of Asia. Jimmy lie is on his way, comes up or multimillionaire, so within a very short span. This child of mainland China, was to carry the bags of rich men on their way to Hong Kong.

Is now himself a massive Hong Kong success story. So how does it get from retail into media theory? It starts with chinese politics. This is gonna, be making. It is the period of opening up in China and people in May. When China begin pushing for even more, and so there is a protest movement in nineteen? Eighty, nine in Beijing other large chinese cities where students and workers come together. Demonstrate and try and demand greater say in their government and Something that's followed very closely in Hong Kong by this point its clear that Hong Kong will return to chinese control, so people in Hong Kong are very invested in the idea of China becoming a demand

right and Jimmy lie. She has this belief that China will open up, but that doesn't happen trying to send some the troops and on June fourth, one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine chinese soldiers kill hundreds, possibly thousands of demonstrators in Beijing. And that is the end of the protest movement and how does Jimmy lie? We acted the news that massacre. He still believes that China will become a debacle, at the time when the gentlemen Massacre happened. I forget the way for China to go forward reply. She she was equally worsen was wrong. I was a dreamer, I'm still dream and time

He wants to do what he can to push it in that direction. For somebody, that's making that money, I was forty years old. You know I made enough money for my life. Is that okay that's good into the media, because I believe the media by delivery information, your actually delivery freedom. He sees the way of doing that is through the media, and so as a child resolve food is freedom. Now he sees information is freedom and by being a publisher himself, he can deliver that. So his first publication is called next magazine, Can you tell us about the the philosophy of your publications? You describe the inspiration to start them is the aftermath of Tiananmen in the crackdown and hopes to reform China, and it's a very high minded political idea, but

next magazine and Apple Daily are famous for four gossip is so it seems like there's a credible, a little bit of a contradiction there. What what? What is it? What is the underlying the light is pro freedom at the same time meeting when I stop mixed you magazine was light or get if you our financial make us EU financial biggest. If you, entertainment costs of your browser, fuck it you watch. Why should I have to do this like enough? Put it all together and just choose the best of each one and it became overnight success. My purpose is to sell and to deliver the message to us:

the people as possible- and we have been very persistent in our pro democracy and freedom principle and people in Hong Kong- talk about in those days like waiting to get the next issue next, amazing and five years later, he starts Apple daily, which is a daily newspaper, and it's a very similar sort of mix of Gaza. Celebrity in

also hard hitting news and investigations in everything somebody might want to read. Basically, so how do these publications next Apple daily heavy treat China? So there are very critical of the Chinese Communist Party and facts. Jimmy lie gets into a lot of trouble over this. He has a column and, and this column he insults Lee Palm is a chinese premier in person generally bleed have ordered the troops and the Beijing. I don't know what it was. Maybe a couple years after the Tiananmen Square, he will see something ridiculous either. So I wrote a letter for him, the son of Total, because I'm a turtles egg with zero iq I don't know that reference very well, but I'm imagine that's a local insult that hurts basically questioning both his intelligence and his parents,

her then China's safely Order me to sell the stick into down within five days or whatever you know. I crossed the shop in shopping, there's a very quick reaction from the chinese authorities and they begin closing Giordano's shops in mainland. And he's forced to decide, does he want to run up a meal the empire, the clothing empire and the EU decides to stick with media and he sells all business and your daughter for a few hundred million dollars and then he becomes strictly a media taken but I have to mention that the message of that insult and the response from the

his government, which is directly punish, em and hurt his business, is very clear to stimuli, which is, if you mess with the treaty. Communist Party there will be repercussions. Yes, that's right and, as China gets more powerful, the rested Jimmy like get bigger, moderate back as the business you know today takes new ways of work. Hang it takes new measures towards health and safety, flexible terms for where, when and how you work spaces designed with your purpose in mind, it takes the innovation of a we work office to take your business where you want it to be, we work, that's how tomorrow works visit. We worked up, such tomorrow to learn more source, and how do these tensions start to play out once Jimmy?

throws himself into this media empire and, like you just said, China's power, he's growing. While he becomes a very prominent, an outspoken figure in that programme, C Mon man in Hong Kong. He participates and protests and his papers a big backer of large protest movements in Hong Kong in twenty fourteen and also last year. He goes to the. U S: son meets with the Secretary of State to advocated for Hong Kong, too big more democratic and how risky is this behaviour, as it does seem very provocative, very publicly provocative. Is there a sense that you're, a billionaire you can do these kinds of things A certain level of protection is definitely taking risks and he's arrested a few times for participation in illegal assemblies for an incident with a photographer

from a probe aging newspaper that the wrists really escalate once the National security law comes into place. Brain we ve, about this law with you on the show Austin it is written. So broadly, and so clearly in response to the protest movements of the past three Here's that it's pretty clear that chinese government and their allies in the Hong Kong government could Pretty much find any reason to apply it to someone doing something they don't like. Yes, that's right, and nobody really knows how far- go this national security law, I think came, is big surprise. What was your reaction when I first heard about this? I couldn't believe it.

I thought it was rough, but the more I heard about it, the more is true. Then I knew that that spell than death now function, because the british government did not give us democracy, but he gave us rule Harvard poverty. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly all this institution was the protection of freedom and that's why we hokum people somebody berries against see cp when the fragile our freedom was to be taken away and for Jimmy LIE,

The chinese authorities in chinese state media have really identified him as one of the main targets under this law and sure enough. Within a few weeks after the laws passed his arrest. You're one of the first people in Hong Kong to be arrested under the National security law. There's a new department within the police specifically to handle it so this is all very knew. What was I like it? was like. I was. Preparing for it and now the time has come. I just take it easy. Because I don't know, what's going to happen, I just throw with it for a long time

but don't you worry that I asked my prison, can I go back upstairs to say goodbye to my wife, because she is the only thing that worry she has. The ability suffer more than I do and, as the meeting I was concerned is escorted out of his mansion and Then he's taken to the Apple daily headquarters and there's this just amazing, seen or heard about her part of Jimmy lies. Do the newsroom and hundreds of police more than two hundred police officers sharp up at the Apple Daily NEWS room Can we get going on that by reporters? Go there and there live streaming. The police play on their headquarters, and editors are good. In arguments with police, and it's really dramatic see

and quite shocking to see so many places descend on this measure and so he is two sons and a few executives in his organization arrested under national security violations. But it's not made clear exactly what, in the few weeks since the law went in for a fact he has done to violate this. An inherent you describe his time in jail? He says that While he was being held, he thought about whether he would do things differently I was thinking if I knew that I would not like this and imprisoned. Would I changed the way I want my life. Realize they want

because I never did anything before intention just naturally, so it must be my character. If he's my character is my destiny, so I was all believe in. You'll, have a deep regret and decides that at some point he was going to have this collision with the authorities, and he is satisfied with the things that he's done, that the choices made of lead up to this Well, to that point, there's a line of thinking and it's kind of chinese centric line of thinking, but it's a line of thinking that the communist part He hastened to the imposition of this very strict security law because of all the protests and the attention that they garnered. And, to the degree that people like him he likes a role in that movement in supporting it in amplifying it deciding China so openly

He worry that he invited this law and its consequences faster than it might have happened, if everybody, including stimuli, had acted differently, did he miscalculated the chinese response? He does have criticisms of the movement he argued for non violence, the violence and property destruction of the protests are things it is critical of it away to his first look into legislative council. Is this when they first through their five on this, is going to be very detrimental to them. I was always tearing those case. We cannot be more while see, people, s guns and tents. Leaving we have is more authority. This is the only power where but

same time, but I can understand also why the cases because they are so desperate, at the beginning of the life and at the end of it- you want me to say what I say again: you didn't find they have to face of life without freedom if the whole move and was more moderate with the natural sickly law come, I think, just a few law. A kind of like this will come when tree anyway, but you just come sooner. He says that the chinese government, but of a right at this point one way or another, that these have restrictions on Hong Kong were inevitable, and according to that logic, what would be the point of tiptoeing around any of this? What would be the point of acquiescing or delaying it wouldn't gain much of anything but threat, and you know he's not a subtle guy. In some ways he probably relishes the conflict that comes with forcing the authority

and I just believed, ass, easy p Finally, one do come down on the balance of the Hong Kong people because they did not understand why? How can people simply values? It is, then, that we have a different value than those Chinese in China and you and Tiffany were obviously talking to him. His home, not in a prison. So how does he get out he's released on bail, The thing that they would allow me bill. It was a surprise If they don't send me to China at least it will keep in custody until now, after pay, three hundred thousand cash on Bell and two hundred thousand personal guarantee, I love

you. Ve been talk. I dont know what my my promise there's not modern day for me there. Yet, although my passport was investigated, desert he's not allowed to leave Hong Kong. So there is a lot of uncertainty in terms of his future and also the future of its publications and struck us today, Jimmy story from the beginning is, as you said, this quest for freedom and a call for freedom and fair. Much resembles Hong Kong's quest for freedom, the acquisition of it and then the loss of it, and he has tasted that freedom. But at this point for being honest, had kind of feels like that battle is now ending. He is on the losing side of it. So does he see it that way? I don't. I don't think he does. I asked him about this because it struck me that now he would

at a point in his life that was very similar to the experiences of protest leaders from nineteen. Eighty nine we know from experience, could often fur. Activist in China that there's a choice that offer for the path of Wangan go to America. Some of those like one done, spent some time in prison and then left and now live a life of freedom overseas, or you can go that your shovel you stay in prison and some of those like little shop or use the Nobel Peace Prize laureate spent time in prison and die impressive, and so I asked jimmy- lie a choice. I guys I will choose the letter. He would go to prison.

That's the only way to him because it just making it very expensive for them. If I stay There is insufficient to learning, has been arrested, but simply the rest of your life and presents a lot of great cost as well for one person as opposed to third country. That's a big with back. It is a very good bye, for he could puck acoustic. I choose the baggage and he said that he would stay and fight risk spending the rest of his life and imprison? So that's a bargain that sounds like he's going to make its somebody's, then very well for myself as an entrepreneur that it seems like it seems like a top priority

it depends on what you want. Your life. If I was satisfied to be rich, necessarily businessman, my level buildings, that's not the kind of life. I just lucky to have so much money, because I, what do you want to make it here? I think been much relations. A fighter was right. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Go via a step nearer walking night eyes, Interviewed Jimmy I few times over the past, fifteen or so years had occurred to me that this, potentially be the last time that I talk with them. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you asked and we appreciate. Thank you Michael we'll, be right back.

As a business, you know today takes new ways of working. It takes new measures towards health and safety, flexible terms her where, when and how you work spaces designed with your purpose in mind, it takes the innovation of a we work office to take your business where you want it to be, we work that's how to Morrow works visit. We worked out com, slashed, tumor, to learn more here's. What else you need nerdy the times report the? U S. Centres for disease, control and prevention has sent a letter asking states and cities to prepare for the distribution, and of a possible corona virus vaccine, as as late October or early November, such a quick timetable is not at all sir, but the letter has heightened. Concern among public health officials that the president is

to rush the distribution of a vaccine as part of his re election strategy, and in unusual moved. The CDC is, looking emergency powers to bar landlords from evicting renters who are suffering financially because of the pandemic in order Took curve the spread of the virus, the CDC said that evicted residents who may turn to friends, family or matters are at a greater risk of catching and spreading the disease. Eviction moratorium, which has upset landlords pull last through the end of the year

that's it for the daily unworkable bar cedar more as a business. You know today takes new ways of working. It sue measures towards health and safety, flexible terms for where, when and how you work spaces designed with your purpose in mind, it takes the innovation of a we work office to take your business where you want it to be, we work that's how to Morrow works visit. We worked out com slash tomorrow, to learn more.