President Trump called the firing of Andrew G. McCabe, the deputy F.B.I. director, a “great day for democracy.” Mr. McCabe says it’s further evidence of the president’s efforts to undermine the Russia investigation. What really happened? Guest: Matt Apuzzo, a New York Times reporter in Washington. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From the New York Times are Michael warm
today, President Trump,
The firing of Angela came a great day for democracy
Andrew MC, he says, is further evidence of the president's
efforts to undermine the Russia investigation. What really happened,
deputy director of the FBI, its Monday March nineteen met, take us back to the tweet. The president Trump sent about Andrew Mackay way back in December, wanted that tweet say the tweet said: FBI, deputy director, eight or Mackay is racing the clock to retire with full benefits. Ninety days too,
Oh question: Mark three excretion points: mad approval covers national security for the times. What was that tweed supposed to mean the news it just
broken and Andrew Cave intended to retire as soon as he was eligible in March, and so he had ninety days to go in and obviously when he got to that mark, he would be eligible for his full pension is full benefits. I have to say you're Donald Trump tweeted, very clearly that he was angry that gave us being allowed to retire
full benefits. He sees that as some sort of injustice right, and so it had this roof hint of
can it happened Andrew Mackay? Will he make it to ninety days? Will he get the retired? Donald Trump was actually hinting and sort of telegraphing, but he wanted him fired before he could get his pension, and so it was kind of a threat that truth.
Frumpy anyway. Donald Trump clearly thinks he will write. Andy MC caves story, one tweet at a time, and why would the President be threatening? The came back in December? Mackay was the f B. I deputy director in twenty sixteen during this crazy, pure
where the F B, I was investigating a trump campaign. Nbc news has learned that there is an ongoing FBI inquiry into former trunk campaign manager, Paul man afford and his ties to Russia. Those also investigating Hillary Clinton in her private
mail server, more breaking news, a bomb shell in the race for the white has just eleven days before election day. Ahead of the F B, I sent a letter to Congress today announcing it is reopening the investigation into Hillary Clinton, email use in the clear.
Foundation. Fox news, has learned this second ongoing FBI investigation. Looking and allegations of a pay for play scheme between Hillary Clinton, State Department and the Clinton Foundation has now taken a quote very high priority.
Gq Cnn, breaking, there's a being internal, investing
and going on and how the f b I handle all that and the inspector
general of the Department of Justice, has just launched a full scale. Investigation of the Justice Department yet be ice handling of investigations into the Hillary Clinton, private,
Email server among other issues are in the cave was at the centre of
that investigation Trump now stirring up politics even more present tweeting last night about Mackay questioning campaign donations to a political campaign of his wife and speculating that make Hey had little time left in his tenure. Mccain's wife ran forward for Genius State Senate C and received hundreds of thousands of dollars campaign donations from a political ally of the Clinton's, its clear that, though the president wanted the cave out all accounts and other tweet in December. Twenty third: how could I be driven room? It gave the better charge, along with Lincoln James combing, the phoney Hilary when the restitution, including your thirty three thousand
We believe the emails be given. Seventy two thousand dollars for his wife campaign by Clinton Puppets during investigation and so tromp has sort of
he's down that Europe has accused me cable bias ever an ally of Hillary Clinton donated to his wise political campaign from tweeting, I'm a cave. These were the people who were investigating Hillary Clinton.
You add all this together and Mikhail is kind of like the perfect foil for the president. To name you know he really symbolizes. All that is irksome loathsome about the FBI to the press. Donald Trump has been tweeting about my came from
some time he can't stand the guy from a Cuba's under
Try investigation to determine if
He actually did anything wrong when it came
to how the FBI conducted those two investigations involving both presidential candidates, Clinton and tromp back in twenty,
right, and he actually, in anticipation of this report, took a leave of absence and has thus
finally ban on the sidelines waiting for his retirement this month? They attorney General job sessions has
fire. The former deputy FBI director Andrew Mackay, little more than twenty four hours before my cave was sent to retire after over two decades as a federal employ. So that was MC, keeps firing on Friday. Night was based on the findings of this department
this investigation. He asked for preface this by saying the inspector general report has not been released, and so we haven't seen the full alley
Asians against him. What we know is that the cave was asked about his decision to let public affairs office at the FBI and a senior lawyer at the FBI engage with a reporter.
The Wall Street Journal about the kind of behind the scenes, machinations that were going on, throwing the Clinton Foundation investigation. So, during the campaign in the final days of the campaign, according to the Wall Street Journal Secret recordings, others
aspect talking about the foundation sparked in internal battle between FBI agents, who wanted to pursue the case and Justice Department prosecutors who viewed
statements has hearsay. Some people thought Mackay was the one putting the brakes on the investigation and the ultimate step
the came out revealed this back and forth between the just department and the FBI word. It appears that Mc Cave and the FBI engage with the journal to basically say no, we are pushing forward in that investigation, despite Deo Jays reluctance. We do think there's a reason to investigate the wall. Street journal was first a report last night that the Justice Department was in fact tapping the brakes on these public corruption cases and in the summer, when justice, third FBI agents were still
suing. These leads connected to Clinton. They were beyond upset and when asked about this, it appears that he was according to the just firemen, not initially truthful Miguel corrected, so that makes sense but keep trying
shore up the FBI's reputation and also his own when it comes to this investigation. But why would he be dishonest about it
I know the answer to that and everybody I know in the FBI is asking the same question, because
it doesn't completely make sense that my cable go in there and just straight apply really want
read this report because it doesn't make sense. He would have to have known that. That was a catastrophic decision. If you decide to go in, there lie or turning general Jeff session says he was just following recommendations from Justice Department officials, because annually
Vote made an unauthorized disclosure to the news media and lacked candor, including under oath on multiple occasions.
The attorney General Jeff sessions put out a statement, relied on the findings of this inspector general report and said that Mikhail showed a lack of candor, a lack of clear, and that is pretty much the kiss of death. The FBI
the FBI disciplinary process, excuses a lot can get suspended for de wise or domestic violence on battery losing your gun, but ultimately, typically keep your job. Showing lack of candor is usually the death sentence.
To ultimately stated reason from Cape firing doesn't actually have to do with this idea that President Trump paths, which is that the cave was biased against him,
because of his wife and a political donations and
He made around what to investigate or what not investigate its that he was dishonest in his interactions around this contact with the media right and who was once E inspector General report was finished. It was referred to career people at the FBI's office of professional responsibility
their basically the internal affairs of the FBI and they reviewed it, and they made a recommendation that he be fired, and sessions ultimately was the final arbiter of. Was that a fair recommendation? Did he indeed show a lack of candour, and did he deserved to be fired, will obviously became? Tells a different story stating the last
a year and a half my family, I have been targets of an unrelenting assault on our reputation in my service to this country. Articles too numerous to count have levelled every sort of false defamatory and degrading allegation against us presents tweets of amplified and exacerbated at all. Obviously, Mackay has come out very strongly in response to this and has given a very different explanation for why he thinks that he was fired. Can you tell us what his version of this ominous sure I spoke to my cave about this at length and he's adamant that he didn't
mislead the just department and he can't talk about exactly what was going on because as part of the investigation, they make everybody sign. These non disclosure agreements also until
report is out. We can't kind of get involved, in fact by lacked analysis, but he
as we said that he was truthful and that when he believed he was being misunderstood, he contacted the investigators to correct their misunderstanding and that have the effect of looking like. He had not been candid on the front it
That's kind of what he says what's going on, but what he really says is going on is that
singled out, because the role I played the actions I took any events I witnessed in the aftermath of the firing of James combing. The focus on me as part of an unprecedented effort by the administration, driven by the President himself, to remove me from my position and destroy my reputation,
heaps version of this that it's not about any lie you told, but that its political would seem to be supported by the President's sending that tweet back in December, suggesting that Mackay might not make it to his retirement and then, of course, when he was fired on Friday, it was twenty six hours before he was set to retire.
Which just doesn't seem like coincidence, and then shortly after the announcement President Trump tweeted Andrew came fired a great day for the hard working men and women of the FBI a great day for democracy.
He sanctimonious James call me was his boss and made Mackay look like a choir boy.
He knew all about the lies that feels like. It really calls into question the idea that this firing isn't in some way
political right, it's hard to say without seeing the accusations against him, and I hate to keep coming back on that, but you can, if the report,
comes out in its is damning. Ass Jeff session says it is, I think, would then we think differently about the firing, but my cave is coming out.
Really really aggressively in his own defence and saying is absolutely not true. I did not lie.
Mislead anybody, and I am being treated unfairly and so right. Now it's a lot of conflicting information and the president's doesn't help. The Justice Department argue that this is a fair and non political process by
repeatedly engaging on this and gloating about this and having his impress secretary, pre empt?
we call him a bad actor before any decision is may serve. I could ask,
the present, feel just firm, should act by something fire. That's a determination that we,
leave up to attorney general sessions, but we do think that it is well documented that he has had some very troubling behaviour and by most accounts a bad actor and should have some cause for concern, but that would be a determination that the OJ would have to make which you have
understand is Mackay, was deputy director and with directly overseeing the rush investigation from its first days. So, if you can damage MC caves reputation and you can serve say, he's not credible that everything he touches become suspect, but secondly, as deputy director.
He was witness to some of the things that are now under investigation. As to questions of whether president from tried to obstruct justice, namely
His conversations with James call me the now Firefly Director whether Trump tried to get commie to shut down an FBI investigation whether Trump tried to
man, loyalty oath, those were things, are
happening between call me and Trump that are now being investigated and MC, was
means deputy and call me shared those conversations with Mackay in so Mackay.
In a position to corroborate key information that Jim Commie had, and so his credibility by goes to the very credibility of colonies. Own accusations of the big reveal over the weekend after my gaze firing was like former
FBI director James call me macabre detailed memos describing as personal interactions with President Trump, which are important, because
call me, has made allegations that the president tried to get him to shut down investigations and tried again taken
loyalty oath and the present
all this, but my cable is in a position to corroborate those and apparently kept contemporaneous memos on his conversations. The call me
and Captain notes and memos on his interactions with President Trump
so these memos that my cape has kept. They could become part of the mother investigation Prince or we may assume airy are because they were left at the FBI and because they are a few materials all that is available to Mahler. So, as Mahler goes out, trying to corroborate watch him come, he says he has whatever
a cave left side. Does this off your mother's case for obstruction of justice firing a senior level f b? I figure.
Involved in the original Russia Investigation, or does the fact that they found what came to be not candid may get caught a safe move for the president and fur sashimi. I think it's hard to argue that firing the cave fits into
traction case based on what we know now has there were recommendations by career people and they did follow a process, and I think it becomes very hard to say that there was any sort of effort to shut anything down
the caviar there is, we don't know yet what conversations the White House might have had with the OJ what the present had recessions. If those conversations were to come out where the present was talking about my cape decision.
Then I think that could be a problem, but as of with the information we know now, it does feel like it would be hard to make that a part of any obstruction
but was it short sighted, the president to send that initial cut of ominous tweet way back in December about the ninety day countdown
and then this gleeful tweet over the weekend after my cave was fired. Isn't this sort of Way
tromp openly admitted that he had fired. Call me because of Russia after he had fired, call me and can't that
be used against him. Well, it certainly undermines the just parliament's efforts to make this look. You know has a political as possible, but I have no question about that to the extent
that the Trump administration would benefit from having people accept this firing as justified end by the book. Then, of course, these tweets do incredible damage to the credibility that process, but if your goal is to get people suspicious of the rush investigation,
I know just like make Andrew Mc Cable shorthand for shenanigans the FBI and when you hear my cave dont trust that, if that's the goal then he's doing exactly what should be done. So it looks at the White House is actually doing the work of connecting the firing of my cave to its own. Our
and fur why the mother investigation should be shut down, so it does appear that they're making a case for ending what mothers up too. They are definitely trying to make that case. It appears- and I say it appears because that's what's happening,
at this moment that I sit here. Their strategy has sort of ping pong back and forth end. We appeared now be in this moment of where the gloves are off and
the president and his lawyers want to go after Mueller directly. Maybe this is frustration that the investigation is still going on, but the stance on Mueller has definitely changed. The White House from I think he's a good guy, a fair guy and he's going to make a fair decision to shut it down. Thank you, anytime,
on Sunday morning, President Trump
extended his accusations of partisan bias to include special
also Robert Mothers Team, whom he,
avoided going after until now,
why does the mother team have thirteen
Odin Democrats, some big crooked Hilary supporters.
And the zero Republicans from tweeted. Does anyone think this is fair,
Fact checkers immediately cast doubt on that claim, noting, among other things, that
Dollar himself is a Republican
and on Saturday President trumps, personal lawyer,
hold on the Justice Department and the special councils investigation
we'll be right, back
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use. What else you need to another day a day,
Consulting firm hired by the Trump campaign to build voter profiles,
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Transcript generated on 2020-07-01.