« The Daily

The Anguish of Jeff Flake

2018-10-01

Senator Jeff Flake’s last-minute demand for an F.B.I. investigation into Judge Brett M. Kavanaugh has single-handedly held up the confirmation vote for the Supreme Court nominee. Here’s the story behind that decision. Guest: Michael D. Shear, who covers the White House for The New York Times, and Ana Maria Archila, one of the protesters who spoke to Mr. Flake on his way to the Senate Judiciary Committee meeting on Friday. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From the New York. Unlike about this today, Senator just place last minute demand for an FBI investigation into bread. Cabin has Go handedly held up the supreme nominees confirmation story behind That decision its Monday October first monsieur weird things stand on Friday morning. So Friday morning. The hearings that had happened on thursday- I am here because I believe it is by civic duty to tell you happen to me. While Brett Cab and I were in high school, the remarkable testimony by Doktor Barton
Lord this whole too weak effort has been calculated and orchestrated political head. The emotional and angry response from the cabinet that had taken place. I intend, vote for you and I hope everybody whose fair minded will the Republicans were aiming to move ahead as quickly as they could to try to push Judge Cavanaugh. Nomination forward. Ultimately, to get him confirmed Friday morning they had, annual a meeting of the Senate Judiciary Committee. There are ten democratic on the committee. Eleven Republicans on the committee, the Republicans as of Friday morning were very confident that they had the votes. The one exception to that was under Jeff, wake all eyes now on Jeff Flank the only undecided vote on the committee. He is
republican from Arizona but he's retiring in part because of what he has expressed as a frustration with the lack of bi partisanship in Why shouldn t he has railed against president trumps use of really harsh rhetoric and so while he is definitely a conservative. Policy matters you sort of a wild card. Yet, even so, when everybody woke up the Friday morning, This is breaking news about the boat. That's coming up on Judge capital at Night twenty nine Jeff Lakes Office put out a statement saying that he had decided to vote jet flight republican era. Will vote yes, saying he would support cabinet because he deserved a presumption of innocence with ports allegation uncorroborated. He would provide that crucial, eleventh vote to give the Republicans a majority to move that our nation forward. So he begins.
The head to the committee room for the start of the meeting. He gets into an elevator from his office heading up to the second floor of the Turks and Senate Office Building and the heat the elevator with a couple of AIDS before the other The dark in close an old. I, too, young women confront him. What you are doing is allowing someone who violated a woman s heart and they confront him in the most personal way. Children in your family about them They essentially start yelling at him that his vote to approve Judge Cavanaugh was an affront women that he was telling young women that their stories about sexual assault didn't matter, and
fact they started talking about their own experiences, told this house anyway. That's it you're telling all of these women- and this was captured on video, which was quickly released and went viral, and you can see on his face that senator flake. Is grim, phased staring down at the floor of the elevator frying, not to sort of catch, their gaze at one point, one of the women says you're telling me that to me Look at me, don't look away when I'm talking to you and he glanced up crestfallen and you can see the weight of This decision that he had already struggled with for the last week or more absolutely come rushing down on him. It was clear
to everybody that watch that video that, however difficult the decision had been for Senator Flake from that moment it was immensely more difficult for him after that up. Ok, you ain't, respond, saying that you're, not an answer, You can pick up in terms of having maximum impact. It couldn't have been timed better, and it is certainly true that members of Congress get feedback all the time to get feedback from constituents to get phone calls to come into their offices. So it's not true that they're completely isolate. From what real people think, but there is also usually a distance rate, especially when you're at the capital, when you're in Washington, lawmakers
upon the dialogue in a hearing room, they are both above the audience and distant from the audience, and the discussions about public policy and these big momentous decisions they have to make are often done among themselves and out of the direct contact from the people that are going to effect. In this was a reminder for obviously senator flake, but also for the rest of us, watching it that There really isn't as much distances. We think between the decisions that the politicians we elect make and the people who they affect so after when I'm sure like eternity to Senator flank he sort of escapes the elevator, the doors clothes and he heads in his hearing. What's going on in that So the hearing has just been gavel. To order senator check rashly
of our Republicans are assembling on one side of the dice Democrats are assembling on the other and all of them our settling in for what they expect to be a kind of pre determined outcome. Each senator aged, I get a few minutes to pontificate So Senator Grass Lee recognised Senator die in fine style made some comments. Thank you, Mr Chairman. I am very disappointed that we're here voting on this nomination, and then it was best to a reply look and senator in more than twelve years. Adjudge Cavanaugh has been a judge The data Sarka has built a reputation for honesty, courtesy and integrity, and then it went through democratic that goes back and forth. Each appointment coronation highest court, as with all others, is simply too important to rush to a vote, but even as the back and forth is happening, the Democrats are pleading for some kind of a delay. You invest
gate. It's the least thing a sexual assault victim is entitled to when she comes forward Don't understand why an FBI investigation could you take place, and I have conveyed to my friends and colleagues that I had wished. We would take a one week pause. One way only three spoons Delaware suggests that a one week. Fbi investigation could help provide some clarity and the Republicans are essentially rejecting that out of hand. Six FBI investigations We miss the sophomore junior gang rapist, witness it much garbage. There's nothing The FBI would do that. The committee has now already heard we made a decision, a border one thirty, if there's some reason, a change that then we will have to change it, but I am not even going
a discussion about their right now. There are enough and then were signs at some point centre. Flake give them. From his seat and walked behind the day, behind the other senators that are talking any taps. Chris Coon's them different. Our democratic senator from dollar capsule on shoulder in indicates that he wanted to talk to him. They walk through a pair of double doors. Behind committee dies and they go private we back behind into an anti ringlets behind the committee chambers people on television, the other senators, are noticing this, but don't quite know what is going on behind closed doors. Here's what was happening, Senator Flake and senator and our friends they ve known each other a long time. They trust each other. There, the kind of friends
send it that are more genuine. It's not just as my friend on the other side of the Isle Senator Flake says to Senator Coon's, I'm having second thoughts. I think your idea about it. Delay to give the FBI time might actually be, simple, but I'm nervous he says, and so what follows absolutely a remarkable scene where suddenly this conversation between these two men becomes much larger, Senator Coon's goes out and get some of his democratic colleagues come in and continue the conversation behind closed doors. Senator Tom tell us of North Carolina Senator John Cournand of taxes to Republicans they. So come in over the next forty five minutes, or so you have virtually every member of the committee back in this small cramped hallway behind the committee room and what's happening is senator flake is essentially standing pretty much silent according to the people who
right the scene as he surrounded on both sides by these two warring political faction. So the Republicans on the committees or tell us and sound recording are arguing strenuously. You can't do this. This would be terrible. It's going the judges life even more Chris Coon's and the Democrats, Hats are trying to coax him along thing. Look. You know this is what the Senate about its about compromise, finding a way forward without jamming something through for political purposes? It got very heated, as it was described to us and all of it with senator flake becoming even more anxious. Was he going to reverse himself and actually put the brakes on what had seemed just moments before to be a
foregone conclusion in so how does flake decide to move forward? So at one point he raises the concern of is this: something that the F b I could even do. Is there something that would be valuable to the FBI? Do they have the resources? Do they have the wherewithal soap? Somebody suggest calling Christopher Ray the FBI director. They try that they can't find Christopher RE, they can't reach him, and so the second choice is to call ROD Rosen style. It come down to be no a phone call with the very man who the press might yet fire and was actively considering firing. That's a phone call that obviously needs to be done with some privacy. So Chris Coon's and Jeff Lake cram themselves into one of these old fashioned kind of oversized phone booth closed the door took out a cell phone
in this sense we put it on speaker and called Rosen Stein. We are told that Mr Rothstein does reassure senator flake that the F b I can do. An investigation though he does say that, given the scope of its relative short amount of time less than a week that it's unlikely to use a lot more than senators already know, but he says yes, we can do that so with this green light from roses time, what does senator flake do? Senator flake does one last thing before he comes back into the hearing room, and that is that he takes his phone and he calls two of his republican colleagues who are not members of the Senate Judiciary Committee and that is Senator Susan Collins of Main and senator Early Summer Caskey of Alaska. He called the two of them and based we said. Are you guys with me? Both assured sender flake that, yes, they would back him in that they would demand the same. Thing, a one week delay and an FBI investing,
should an armed with that Senator Flake went back into the committee room, knowing that the Senate Republican in President Trump would have to relent, because if they didn't, they wouldn't have the votes ultimately to confirm, Judge Cavanaugh without the three Republicans as far as a point of personal privilege, I'm we'll call on senator flake to speak, nor We would start to evolve right now, but it is a point of personal privilege. I would call on Senator flake interesting. It all happens very quickly and even for veteran watchers of the legislative sausage making process it was. It was quite messy I have been speaking with a number of people. On the other side, we have conversations ongoing for awhile with regard to
making sure that we do due diligence here. Senator flake announced his decision and I think it would be proper to delay the four vote for up to, but not more than one week. He said that he did his mind in there now believed that he would be willing to vote for a judge, cabin laws nomination to move forward from the committee to the full Senate, but only with the assurance that this one week. Delay would happen. So that's without agreement. I will vote to adapt spill to the fore target you all wrong. Just wait just one second can can Diane. Since being that we have a description. Couple of the Democrats, including Senator Feinstein, started to try to ask some questions to clarify
exactly what that man, what assurances they would have that it would happen when only voting. I say we are voting on the motion to report the nomination to the floor. Senator Grass Lee quickly said the rail. Let's vote on the motion. We that's not standing up for the person who caused the all started coming: senators names they started saying: yes, yes, yes or no. Look inside I, as promised senator flake votes, yes, on the nominee. No Democrats were quite certain. I think in some cases what we happening. They all voted no and before you knew it. Mr chairman, because a two hour rule where a germ line to our love, Senator Rascally had gambled down. Said the eyes have. It judge can
as nomination has been approved by the committee and forwarded to the full standing there is this confusion a little bit about what it all meant and, as the senators are leaving Senator Lindsey Gram is overheard by some reporters. Somebody gets plainest drugs I guess I do very much like what do you make of one Jeffrey on Friday can help thinking back What you said about him when we first started talking is sort of despondent at the state of the divided country he's destroyed over the state of the EU, a Senate he's in his
I know weeks as a member of its and he's gonna be out of office in just a couple of months, and then this moment this huge decision comes before him in a way where he is so decisive. My sense of him is that he wasn't at peace with the union the decision you could sort of sea that in his face, even before all of the machinations behind the scenes took place, you could see looking at him. Had. He didn't look at peace, its unclear. Me whether it will turn out that senator flake will go down in history in a feeling like this is the sort of most heroic mom. In his Senate career, because I think we don't know what the outcome of Fbi investigation is when people will see it as legitimate, and so I dont know what he will think about this in the end, but at least for the moment you can c on his face at the end of that hearing after he had six.
Especially engineered this FBI. Inquiry to take place. You could see a kind of lateness in his face that, however, it finally comes out that he felt like this was the right thing to do. MIKE. Thank you very much appreciate your happy to do on Saturday, as he left for a rally in West Virginia President Trump said he would put new restrictions onto the FBI's investigation
the breakdown of rewriting they're gonna do whatever they have to do whatever it is. They do they'll be doing things that we never even thought of what the times reports that the scope of the investigation will be sharply limited so far, just poor wit. We'll be questioned about the accusations of sexual assaults against Cavanaugh, including cabin was friend Mark Judge who Doktor Christine blocks. Ford said was in the room during the alleged attack. There are no plans to question a third accused, Julius Wetness or any classmates, who have contradicted cavanaugh testimony about his drinking and partying, as it should Are you confident that they will be able to explore everything they want to, including if they are interested, the jewels, Let me allegations including whether or not he was honest to the Senate Judiciary Committee about his drinking on Sunday democratic senators, including
Amy curvature of Minnesota on CNN said that those limitations, risk undermining the credibility of the investigation, what we hearing our reports at those somehow trying to limit this to a few witness, says or tell them what they should do and while the White House decides who denominate and then that person is submitted to a background check I've, never at the White House either under this. President or other presidencies saying we: U can interview this person, you can't look at this time period. You can only look at these people from one side of the street from when they were growing up I mean come on. As our avenant advances beyond beyond the right. We have to allow them will be right back.
Our work is giving one million dollars and talent grants to business is working to counter the ongoing impacts of cuban nineteen as the world's largest network of remote professionals, their connecting existing teams with remote experts in tech, creative and operations, in an effort to help them lives and rebuild the economy to learn more gotta upward dot com, slash work together. I was so enraged by the fact that all these men in the Judiciary Committee basically forced woman, to tell the story of the most traumatized experience of her life and then had proceeded to disabled. That's fine! We still like our guy. I just couldn't not believe that that's what was happening. And I just why it really. I wanted senator flake too Me in the eye and to hear my pain,
My rage and I understood that it was the pain and the rage of women across the country, who cannot believe that this is still happening today, Ana Maria our children was one of the two women who followed senator flake out of his office. On Friday morning I had been protesting alongside hundreds of people who had been coming to Washington DC for weeks. We were there to protests the of bread cabinet, but Monday of this week, I went to Senator Flakes Office and for the first time told my story as a survivor of sexual abuse. And so on Friday. I went back to his office to see. If I could talk,
to him. I had just met a young woman media Gallagher a few minutes before and she was there for the first time she had never talk to any elected officials. She had never told her story, but she felt compelled to be there with the people Had been protesting and that together we went to Senator Flakes office, hoping that maybe we could catch him and talk to him and tell him our stories right before or we saw him walking to the elevator. We saw the statement that came out of his office, then said that he was ready to support bread cabinet and then right after he walked out of his office. These group of reporters Had been standing by like ran behind him and we ran behind them and inserted ourselves in that elevator.
And what are you thinking when you actually find yourself with this one opportunity to speak to Senator flake, it's sort of extraordinary lock? Are you conscious of that? In that moment, I am, conscious of the urgency of not letting him get away with him. Story of actual old. I am conscious of the fact that this is the moment that he might, for the first time, understand the pain that women are feeling there will be a young girl. What are you going. You kept saying thank you. I have to go. He kept pressing the button in the elevator to try to close the door, and he, I think, really wanted that to end and at that moment Maria Gallagher jumped in and said
waves vein, I didn't tell anyone in your telling all women that they don't matter that they should just stay quiet because they tell you what happens you're going to ignore them. That's what happened to me and that's what you're telling all women in America than they don't matter nature just keep it to themselves because, I have told the truth. You're just gonna help TAT man took power anyway. That's it you're telling all of these women you're telling me right, and I think her boys and the pain and her voice was so intense. He could not look at her. It was in that moment that she said you're telling me right now. Look at me. Look at me! That's what you're telling me
look at me, you quoted the internal bodies in some ways, like the essence of these moment. Is that brings look at me. Do not look away. Look at me and tell me that my story doesn't matter. Tell me that you are okay, sending that message to women across the country that our stories do not matter. You have an opportunity to tell me a different thing, which is that Yes, your story, your experience matters and I think that what we were trying to do in that momentum that elevator, I think he initially you know, tried to escape kind of fast and then I could see his demeanor and his body, that it was thinking it in that he? could not escape the emotion and that he could not escape the connection that we demanded from him
you are allowing someone who is unwilling to take responsibility for his own, actually respond and a higher court of the country and to have the role of repairing the harm that has been done in this country. To many people thank you men senator. Do you care to respond and would exactly told you that it was singing? I wanna talk to him. Don't talk to me. What do you think I understand, but tell me I'm standing right here in front of you. I think I looked at him. What did you do you think that you sound the truth now? Do you think that he's telling the truth to the country You have power. I look at how we looked at him. We looked at his face the same way that we were demanding that he look at as we were looking at him. I could see that the term, coil of the last few weeks really in him and I could see turmoil and
space or do you want to respond so there too? There are complaints, Senator Quetta respond to their complaints to the hearing issued a statement. Shall we say more so. There are a lot of questions here, not in my wildest dreams did I actually think you he's gonna take a different action from the action he had already announced poppy. I don't think I think we have witnessed a moment like now In recent memory, I sent you a senator confronted by the by two. I believe too. I believe women who say that they have. Rape themselves, one of them saying to him- and I am quoting here through tears Look away from me, look at me and tell me that it doesn't matter what happens to me just remarkable. It is remarkable. We just witnessed about five minutes of republican Senator Jeff Flake after he made any.
I wonder who will you make of the fact that you may have gotten through to centre flake? He may have left open so space in his horn in his mind, to be influenced by the perspective of those around him, not just as close AIDS, but in a sense by coming rangers, but one of the reasons that he's leaving office is because he's a troubled by the state of partisanship in Washington and without flake. In office. There would have been a single person on that committee, who would have been actually open to changing their mind. I feel worried like senator fuels, worried about the state of our of our politics, and I think it is by forcing those who I like that too, remember that they are not representing their party. They are representing people who have stories and experiences whose lives are shaped every day by their decisions
but that is the role that they should be playing at when they make decisions that have to be thinking about how it impacts real humans, listen
has he codes book to his son between the world than me has one sentence that I feel like is so important and he says we cannot understand slavery or any great injustice by thinking about the masses we have to think about it in the experience of one person. What was these ends? Leaved, woman thinking when she woke up in the morning, who did she miss that morning? Who did she talk too, when she felt sad? How did she feel when her child was stolen from her? We have to think about, and especially people who are in the position of creating laws in our country and have to think about the impact of theirs.
Just by thinking about one person. How is that one person going to be shaped by me- and I think Senator Flake- has a sense of that and was forced to remember that when Marianna confronted him in the elevator Now that you ve had more time to think about it is there anything else that you want to say a senator flake I want to make sure that he knows that we will not forget. He knows this, but I wonder if I could talk to him again, I would tell him we want forget, women will remember what you're doing and we will draw meaning from your actions for many many years.
and really wanna. Thank you very much Spain timeless. Thank you so much. Here's what else you need. Another seven point: five magnitude earthquake that struck Indonesia on Friday triggered a deadly soon on that has killed at least eight hundred thirty people and Post We hundreds more. yeah yeah The death toll has
They lead to questions Indonesia's early warning systems, especially after officials told the truth that none of the twenty two boys that the country used to monitor for soon armies have been. Operational in years, That's it! I'm, like a web suitable as a surgeon and present of Howard University, Doktor Wayne Frederick, believes even are tough. His times can lead to strength and change. This is a difficult, stormy period, but it was striking in a way that no classroom activity could ever have. I'm only shipper host of the pack has made all the difference. I talk to it.
Rivers about how their managing the current moment and charging a course for the future, find that made the difference anywhere. You get your podcast created by Bank of America
Transcript generated on 2020-06-29.