From New York Times. I'm Michael borrow, this is a daily today. The ceos of the nation's most influential technology companies, Amazon, Apple, Google and Facebook are brought before Congress to answer a question: are they the two powerful and two dominant monopolies of the internet age? My colleague, Cecilia CAT, was It's Thursday July thirty. So here we are talking just ahead of the star of what is probably the most anticipated hearing in the history of the second history, so just to begin

Why is this hearing happening at all this hearing? It's happening because there is a recognition across government that these four very powerful and very important company to the economy had become so dominant that they are harming consumers and harming competition. So Congress has summoned the ceos of the corporations Jeff Basis of Amazon, TIM Cook of Apple Mark, Zuckerberg, Facebook and soon DARPA child of Google to ask them an entire get them on their business practices and find out if these internet giants that have become in many ways the new trusts of our economy if they are harming consumers in competition. So house Do we get to this point where these for executives

being summoned before Congress and being forced to confront that question. I think you can start with the two thousand and sixteen presidential election. That really was a wake up call in Washington and across the world really about the power of these social media platforms to be used for harm, not just for entertainment and good. The presidential election of twenty twenty in the United States then really picked up on this feeling of concern. I am deeply concerned right now that the space around companies like Amazon, Facebook, Google is now referred to by venture Cab was as the kills alone, and we saw for the first time a political candidate, Elizabeth Warren announced her promise to break up.

Tech break those things apart, and we will have a much more competitive, robust market in America. That's how capitalism should work. This was the first time that even the rope term, big tech became sort of part of r r Lexicon were an almost like. A kind of epithet absolutely do have criticized alot of big bags today you're talking about breaking up big tech. Why so here's the deal? We need real competition in this field and there is a problem and there was a domino effect after that. So I think that

in twitter and Facebook, Donald Trump there really treading on very very trouble territory, and they have to be careful- it's not fair to large portions of the population. I am also really disappointed in a lot of the tech companies Clinton Bernie Sanders. I think we need vigorous antitrust legislation in this country. All articulated similar concerns about. Attack. They have incredible power over the economy over the political life of this country at a very dangerous sense, soon after the ground, moods underneath the technology companies in Washington. In the span of one week in June, twenty nineteen, the Department of Justice, the Federal Trade Commission and state attorney general's all announced that they had open investigations into the biggest technology companies? It was unprecedented. These companies have not been investigated

for Google on Anti trust grounds before in the United States and beyond that it was a real recognition. To put these four companies into a cohort I wonder if you can briefly walk faster. How each of these companies behaviour has gotten them to this point into this hearing, because These four companies are all big and they're all tech, but their actual pre different right. So what exactly has each done? That people during his hearing are going to be confronting them about. So in the case of Amazon, the accusation is that it is both the retailer and it is a platform for third party sellers, in other words, in another small business, that myself, I say, a face: mask war or tissue paper that will sell their goods on Amazon, and the accusation is at Amazon abuses its position in this cloud to make sure that their own products, but always perform better than these

parties and they also use the data and intelligence they have to suppress and to charge these third party sellers more in the case of apple, the accusation is that it unfairly uses a cloud over the APS. Give me. The app store has huge it has more than a million apps on it, and it uses its power over the platform to block rivals and to force the apps that are on the app store to pay high commissions, in the case of Facebook. The accusation is that it is a monopoly in social networking and that it has acquired rivals like Instagram and why sap to maintain a monopoly and in the process, really killed off competition on the internet. In the case of Google, the accusation is that it uses its dominant position in search an online advertising and in the Andrews MAR from market to crush rivals

and to continue to maintain its dominance in all those marketplaces. So the common theme here is, size dominance and basically monopolistic conduct here, and I would say that they are different companies. They do have different business models, but the one thing I would say they have in common is that they are gatekeepers. They are actually the chop points on the internet because they control Commerce and they can all communications and they control the discovery of information on the internet. These are sort of unprecedented in their scope, their global. Everyone around the world uses them too, Listen to you talk about this hearing the stakes. Add the questions around influence and conduct I am inevitably reminded of scar. Guess the please take your seat one. It was probably them famous congressional hearing of my lifetime, which was

the tobacco industry, hearings of nineteen. Eighty four. For the first time ever, the chief executive officers of our nations tobacco companies are testifying together before the United States Congress and, of course here because tobacco has led smoking. Health are differ then technology, but it was a moment when the top executives of billion dollar companies and very powerful companies in the economy. The truth is that cigarettes or the single most dangerous consumer product ever saw were merely summoned before Congress and really held to account in a highly public way. I similarly see that comparison to the tobacco hearings. I mean This is the moment when you had the heads the captains of the biggest companies and technology. Just like we saw the heads the captain of the biggest companies of the tobacco industry have to come before Congress Bourgeois

and stand up. You swear, raise their right hand, swear animal trees and nothing but the truth and really suited yourself to defend themselves as companies that are potentially harmful to society first I might just go down the road, yes or no. You believe nicotine is not addictive. I believe nicotine is not addictive. Yes, Mr Johnston, congressmen cigarettes and nicotine clearly do not meet the classic definitions of addiction. There is no tax, ok I'll, take that as of now and again the moment just reckoning is similar for the tech industry in the way that that was a moment of reckoning for the tobacco industry and important case those tobacco hearings. They were the beginning of very soon Changes in how the United States regulated tobacco companies, there were big reforms there were. Finds, it was a turning point and if

This hearing ends up like a turning point for the technology industry. I wonder what the basis for whatever regulation flows from this would be. The hearings gonna be a real test of whether anti trust laws in competition lies that were first created in eighteen. Ninety can actually apply to internet companies where the companies of Silicon Valley, I too so different than rail sugars, steal the trust that at that time, were the inspiration for trust, busters like Theodore, Roosevelt and others that were trying to contain the power of the big industrial us at that time. So a lot of

conventional tasks that have been used on whether a company has violated anti trust. Laws may not apply and one of the biggest tests is this test known as the consumer welfare test. This is a standard. That's been used for about forty years now and very much permeates anti trust thinking in this country, and that question is our consumers harmed it's really hard to prove harm with a company like Google or Facebook, when they can say well at the end of the day? Are products are

free and at the end of the day, if you dont, like us, we're one click away from an alternative is gonna be an interesting hearing is certainly well ordered, The following message is brought to you by Spotify, high I'm Michelle Obama, and this is commercial Obama, pot cats. I talked with people. I love about the relationships that comfort and challenge us and make us who we are. The Michelle Obama POD cast is a spot, a fight, a regional pod gas, Joe

ass? You can listen to the series free only on Spotify hi, this issue and it is new- and I am in the house, it you shall committees rearing ran in the neighbouring delving. As someone who has many of their age shuffling in all, with their faces on there is in the middle of the room, which would normally live outside rows of chairs very tightly, packed together, you're all spread. Apart about sixty I'd, seen, there's a lot of cleansing of tasks in hand and microphones. We have right now cleanup crew coming in with her gloves and cease mass cleaning after microphones

an alcohol and everybody handy pure AL invites so that's a scene. And then ass before we begin suddenly come order. Sources. You tell us how this hearing starts on Wednesday hearing strategist a little bit late about one hour late The law makers, fifteen of them, looked back at Rome, at a big job try type screen from their ideas and they saw the faces of the sea- from their homes and offices of Silicon Valley and pray.

The boy, Seattle with Japan, those council and please, allow me your microphones and raise your right hands. You swear on farm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you out to give his true incorrect to the best of your knowledge and after chairmen, Sicily gambles in the hearing he began ass the ceos to introduce themselves and Sicily? I found these introductions these five minute kind of testimonials. Surprisingly personal. I think the cedars really Its accomplish a lot and these opening remarks- Jackie German Cecily rigging member. Since the Brenner and members of the served me, I was bored into great left, not monetary wolf, but it said the wealth of a loving family. You heard just pieces and single time, particular

though we emphasised their humble roots. My mom Jackie had me when she was a seventeen year old, high school student and Albuquerque being pregnant in high school was not popular I didn't have much access to a computer growing up in India. So you can, imagine my amazement. Arrived in the useful graduate school and so on and lab of computers to use than ever. I wanted They are known as the riches individuals in the world and that certainly the case with just basis and Mark Zuckerberg and I think, want to build more reliable. Each of these companies want to start off right off the bat by explaining how they were scrappy for so long, and they continue to have that scrappy spirit and then in some cases they aren't monopolies. Many of our competitors have hundreds of millions or billions of users summer. Starts, but others are gatekeepers with the power to decide if we can even release our acts in Iraq stores to compete with them and that in fact there

petition all over the world? And history shows that if we don't benefited somewhat more place every company here today. That change can often happen faster than you expect so they wanted to set a wine early on to just dispel the notion that is, they tech that's right now in our economy and that day at individual companies are part of a very vibrant competitive market place. That's changing very quickly, so then we get to the questions from lawmakers, cooties foresee and would you think, characterize questions overall, where it was fascinating. Michael, the Democrats,

bookends were very my split in their purchase, so my first question is, which is: why does give steel content from honest businesses right off the bat? The Democrats in two very specific questions about Anti Trust in the Anti trust cases against each of these companies. Mister Channing. With respect, I disagree with that characterisation They really use this opportunity to show off the most damning evidence that they had collected over thirteen months. The hundreds of hours of interviews that they ve held with employees arrivals conservatives are consumers to the Republicans were very quiet. Need is well on one particular message.

Censorship of conservative viewpoints. They believe the tech companies represented are so powerful that their censoring public discourse, the sensory speech. You know, I'm concern that the people who manage the match and before if you manage a big part of the man in, are ending up using this as a political screen. I was throughout that line of questioning Cecilia. Is there a case that the republic sounds focusing on. This idea of conservative bias could have is related to antitrust that then ultimately, these companies have a monopoly on the market of ideas, or is this really just Republicans using this opportunity this face time, executives to focus on political grievances. Kind of ignoring the intention of this hearing. I do think it

his sincere belief that Anti trust related to their concerns about censorship, because they believe that the companies have become so powerful Social media companies and that they are right now the biggest marketplace, ideas and the biggest exchanges of information, and so they see a promise as your ship as a symptom of companies are too big and powerful that's interesting, but we didn't really see much republican focus on the more traditional idea of antitrust. Meaning a business, has gone so big that its hurting kind of all consumers and is anti competitive to other business. Is that an indication that there were Kids are less concerned about big tech as an economic threat than Democrats are yeah.

Surprise. Actually, by how little the republic aside went into the specific debates on anti trust around these companies and new did here for fear of Jane, said some Brenner. Who is the monkey member in the ethical? Some committee said I think, the laws good actually right now the market should work out. We don't need you throw it all in the waste basket and that things are ok, Laws do not need to change. Let me ask Mr Bazin, you know see newer require do spin stuff. I saw you might have no more of a one stop shop. How are the consumers help by their and said that its task, a consumer welfare Snyder, this test, that whether prices go up and if there are fewer options for consumers? That should remain the big test for even big tack and these tech companies?

Third, thank you. They would not be the very clear right he's. Had a laws don't need a change of enforcement of those, and I trust wars, but that enforcement ass. Indeed, he said enforcement is appropriate, belongs to simply don't need to change, and also we should be careful. He said in his words, he said, being vague is not in a hurry Bad doesnt inherently mean that your bad he's a let's talk about the most memorable exchanges involving each company when the focus was on traditional aspects of antitrust and the evidence that had been dug up in the course of this investigation did they focus

these lines of questioning on what you had predicted for civil facebook, you had said was going to be asked about its tendency to buy up competitors. Is that what happened? I definitely expected the issue by competitors who come up when I didn't. I, that is a level of specificity that was included in the line of questioning advantage recognize the distinguish chair. The full judiciary dream, Mr Mather from New York, has really surprised, for example, that Jerry now, Where is everybody? I wouldn't thank you for providing information during our investigation brought up and running rightly from emails from the top executives at Facebook, drink time and they wanted to purchase Instagram. However, the documents you provided, very disturbing sore and from these emails that intend to, for example, neutralize competitors. You have written, the facebook can likely, always just by any compared to start

and the concerns that you maintain these enough when faced with contemplated, acquiring Instagram a competitive start up, you told your see about that donation is a grim could be very disrupted to us. And in the weeks leading up to the deal, the instrument was gonna, be in big threat, saying that quote, Instagram can we heard us without becoming a huge business and more accessible responded by saying yes, I've been clear that Amsterdam was a competitor. Why? Yes, Instagram is a competitor and we clearly thought there a competitor, and by the way and be after you see at all these documents and reviewed this and unanimously voted at the time, not to challenge the acquisition. As we see in two thousand and eleven improve this merger. So let's be clear that this has been done. By the federal government. He also said that, if not for Facebook and the resources that face the cat, Instagram, perhaps would not be. The company is today the act that it is today, which is wildly popular global out.

Ensuring rather respond to that MRS Merkel Burger you're, making my point. I think your printing, my point, he saying you do take nascent competitor. And you call them up and then turn them into important parts of the Facebook ecosystem, But those are really interesting exchanges in particular, because they were so specific and they were taking the words of the executives in these emails and in these documents straight back to the executives and asked them directly the responded defend themselves, and that is something that these executives are used to, having to do, and certainly not in front of the public. With regard to Google, you had

did the Google would be asked about the downside of its dominance in search? Is that what happened yesterday, MRS Salinas asked interpreted by about a search practices? He said we hurried throughout this investigation that Google has stolen content to build your own business. You steal content words, you surface search, results that are necessary, that search results, but that are the best search results for you and your services. These are consistent reports and so you're you're telling me that that doesn't happen is really inconsistent

with what we ve learned during the course of the investigation and you still culture from company specifically like Europe, which is a restaurant review site and you use that content to help lift and benefit other Google Services Davis Ways accusation was that Google has a wall garden of all kinds of services and they just want users to be there services as much as possible and as a consequence of that, any rival is either being used or being blocked entirely from this important gateway, which is this Google search engine- and I and I notice that when the german try to press the ceo of Google on, for example, this allegation of stealing content from yelp supertanker isn't that anti competitive. The sea of Google did not respond. Sign up and try throughout his hot testimony was here

reserved congressmen. You know when I run the country, I'm really focused on giving uses what they want to conduct ourselves to the high standard, and often he did not reply to specific accusations, and that was the case this time, as we are happy to engage, understand the specifics and answer your questions, but he was too fighting And on Amazon Cecilia, you had said that Jeff basis would be challenged the way that company treats third party vendors. How did that loud? Sarah lawmakers question just bathers about its treatment of third party vendors fish Amazon address access and use third party seller data when making business decisions and just a yes or no will suffice. Sir. I can't answer that question yes or no. What I can for preventative, Lucy, Macbeth and we ve interviewed many sites,

our businesses and they used the words like bullying, fear and panic to describe their relationship with em I'm air, the recording from one of her constituents in her district, who was eight bookseller Amazon and, as we grew, be wishing Amazon's market share in the textbooks category, and this bookseller was dealers dating from the marketplace, saw knowing the danish Amazon side, restricting us from sending an in this recording. We heard the bookseller talk about how being listed essentially crippled her business entirely. We haven't soul, a single book of the past. Ten months, we were never giving a reason. Amazon didn't write us with a notice as to why you are being restricted. There was no warning. There was no plan. What did that actor that audio to illustrate about Amazon and discussed

I antitrust, I'm gonna demonstrated that Amazon is well big, do you think this is an acceptable way to treat someone that you described as both a partner and a customer, and The fact that it was in a way has become its own economy, no congresswoman, and I appreciate that you show me that Erika you could say the same thing with Apple too. In his hand, star. There are so many other companies that depend on these economies and platforms if you will for them, ITALY has and anyway become their own. Some economies offering them actually becoming you just mentioned Apple and it You are prediction that this hearing would be about the app store, and not much else was that true. That was the case with ample TIM Cook was asked about apples control over its Appstore

representative, hey Johnson? The Democrats in Georgia asked him Cook, Mr Cook, this apple tree all after Belgrade is equally. If he treated all act fairly, he asked. Why is it that developers have to get permission, and why is it that you charge developers? Thirty percent of the commission on average for simply operating on iphones, if you wouldn't know, what's to stop apple from increasing its commission to fifty percent, we, sir, we never increase commissions and stores, since the first day at operated in two thousand and eight is nothing to stop you from doing so. Is it what's to stop you from from raising a commission ice. Line of questioning really was about how apple maintains its monopoly over that Appstore and make sure those days ahead, arrivals, bite

the dominant gateway position that they have asked the controller about star, so we had fierce competition out the developer, sod and customer side, which is which is essentially it so competitive. I would describe it as a street fight for market share in the smartphone business and can cook militant. How the great answer, the great American Supreme Court Justice, who is Brandeis once said. We must make our choice. We may have democracy, we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both this concludes today's hearing. Without objection. This hearing is adjourned. So let's talk about how this all where this was supposed to be big, Tex big tobacco moment, as you said, but Democrats and Republicans were up to two very different things in this hearing and am mindful that lawmakers have.

Ridiculed in the past for their cars, shallow understanding of technology in hearings like this, and this is for tech companies that are too stink difficult to understand because of their vastness pinning down there. Or workings, and so I'm wondering if you think that this did feel like a big tobacco moment. Did this hearing accomplish what lawmakers had intended. This hearing that, like each tax data, a moment in that, for the first time the four c egos of the fourth biggest technology companies to defend themselves through accusations that were pretty tough that presented these companies in a pretty dark, negative light as brutal dominant enterprises that are willing to squash competition. Harm consumers along the way to maintain their dominance. In that way, the hearing prison

It is down through a lands that the companies had not before been viewed through by consumers and the public. The hearing really presented the companies is something different than just tech start up. They presented them, as the enterprise is very similar to the trust of the late. Eighty hundreds in the early nineties, right at that time. The same debates were throwing around whether it was good for you, ass steel or for standard oil to be such sprawling enterprises and to be such big actors have so much influenced so it? Is this leave us now? I mean this combination of thirteen month investigation, this spectacle of this hearing. What happens next? So that's it. Question Michael, I think that what you saw was agreement among the public ass if they were angry at these technology. Reason they had a lot of concerns. What were you going to see.

This agreement is what comes next in terms of legislative change, what comes next, also turns out recommendations to enforcement agencies. At our Three investigating these companies at this time, so there's gonna be a pipe dream. It asked the What is going ahead with does change is that these companies now really can't shake the image that they have an, Take trust problem that all of them are in some way. Domini. And have abuse their monopoly power to harm competition and potentially to harm consumers as well, and that's not the kind of tat any these companies want attached to them. In other words, once you have been tagged, is a trust and a monopoly. Probably just a question of what the give answer to. That is yeah, I think

just question time. Thank you. Thank you All the back. The following message is brought to you by Spotify High, I'm Michelle Obama, and this is commercial Obama, pot cats. I talked with people. I love about the relationships that comfort and challenge us and make us who we are. The Michelle Obama POD cast is a spot, a fight, a regional pod gas

and ass. You can listen to the series free only on Spotify use what else you need the times reports more than a hundred and fifty thousand people have died from the corona virus in the UK a new milestone in the pandemic, the death rate which had briefly fallen over the sun. Is now rising in twenty three different states surely in Arizona so Carolina in Mississippi? On average, the virus has killed one thousand people a day over the past week alone and the governor of Organ Kate Brown. That federal officers would begin to withdraw from the city of Portland. Today, under an agreement between the governor and the Trump Administration, organ state police will prove

I'd security for the exterior of the city's federal court House were policing the federal officers who had repeatedly clashed with and tear gas protesters there but are we now the man, even as the negotiations to leave or under way President Trump threatened that agents would remain important or or they their have to,

That's it! I'm likeable by sea. Tomorrow. The following message is brought to you by Spotify High I'm Michelle Obama, and this is commercial Obama, pot cats. I talked with people. I love about the relationships that comfort and challenge us and make us who we are. The Michelle Obama POD cast is a spot, a fight, a regional pod gas and ass. You can listen to the series free only on spot