from the New York Times and the team that brought you the daily. This is caliphate, to save over doing before we get, there is to my twenty second and were heading a police station was muzzle, and this is apparently the place where police Officers and members of the iraqi security force or bringing ISIS members who were captured during the battle for western Mosul, so we're hoping, to interview some of the detainees,

chapter nine prisoners one so this is the police station? Let's start at the jail? Ok, so we drive up to a building, they appear to have taken over A stately building and watch muzzle most likely a municipal built. Belonging to the iraqi government? Perhaps it was a stately home of of

the person coils of barbed wire on the outside. It was half the cart and sandbags all around the building on the balcony and you're gonna be ok, no security. You me and hawk woke him. We are currently iraqi prisons. Rooms are full members and images and basically breathing through my mouth right now that the first thing I mean was the smell, the smell of sweat the smell of dirt. We became passing these metal doors with big laches on them. A great in a window in some of the doors and remember when we passed one, you can see these faces.

Bring out, you were taken upstairs and the security officials who run is present. Took us into one of their commanders offices, and this is the way facility, where ices prisoners are transferred. There's a desk there's a couple of chairs The iraqi find many prisoners did. I have here for confirmed ISIS members come, I explained, or go to the commander, who is sitting before I thought so have seven hundred detainees. I never know who there actually going to bring out to see me. Some of them were reported by the families of those sources. Some of them have their names matches like the same name as the indicated, a saying that this is a member, but I make clear

that I only want to see confirmed members of ISIS. Two hundred of them willingly confessed that they have joined ashes already, and I do that because, according to Iraq's cannot terrorism law from two thousand and five, there are only two outcomes for confirmed members of terrorist groups like ISIS Life sentence or capital punishment. Unless a judge sees fit to intervene, the reality is that once you taken into a prison like the one that we were in your chances of coming out or close to know now, I wonder nice right away. There are definite people out there. That would say that we have no business being here, that the very action of us coming into a prison and speaking to a prisoner could compromise that that person's favouring. Obviously this is very

Far from the idea is that, with the ideal situation I get that, but if the nicest member, even in this complex and convoluted situation, agrees to speak to me, I want to hear what they have to say that there is value enlisting after some time they brought in a young man why are the telling rest don't feel comfortable with his hands were bound? Do you think that sorry hook, he looked to be, I would say in his thirty- is probably his early thirties. He had dark curly hair. They can put him I'm the caution because he's got thirty dirty closer. He had rashes his arms did not want to. Let him sit down because they thought he might have cavies. I basically took my job, which I had brought on. This trip to

for myself and to try to blend in mass the commander. Could we put my job down on on the couch and he can then set on that solemnity, yes, Amerika men, New York Times can eventually they agreed to that Tell him I'm a journalist. I have these chemicals chemicals that are yet. Please explain to him hockey journalists have, we are independent of our government, and like his permission to interview him and let him know that he is free not to speak to me, I'm not a political one of its own terms until a career, and nor does it go as you are most welcome, and God may allow me absolutely,

get his name and where he's from smoke when diminished. So this prisoner, his name is Bashar. We're just going to use his first me into a messenger from Boston Jar, western wash He explained to us that he's from western muzzle arrest by labelling shower, we said I was working my shop and they used to come to my shop and took their generated. He says he says that he was a mechanic. He had a shop aware. He dealt with a number of electrical appliances. Ethically generators download Google? You must have assured on each year and began coming to him You got a nose via managed to get there Generators, fixed ISIS uses generators for numerous things there using portable generators to build tunnels to power up the tools that there were using to dig they use them to power up their homes and

for since autumn, with erratic fellows ties to whom he then describes how, at a certain point, the work was stopped. They just stop coming to him. So they say the only solution for you if you wanna get paid is to join. I join us and prejudice against us when he asked why they said to have will come back to you. If you personally, and that's what for we too fidgetiness to them so that I can get paid. So he claims that he pledged pollutants that he wasn't even Where of their ideology. I was doing. I am just going from home to work for more, but he was never soldier. He never took part in any violence. He was just a mere lacking. Choices issues I just joined and to be just like the other people who joined and its then that we start talking about the money salary, uterine student if any of them, certainly usually a hundred thousand. There's something says three hundred thousand is the salary of Le Maire was

of the salary of low level, ISIS Guy, we ask him how much he was paid by ices, and he surprises us by saying three hundred: thousand iraqi donors. So that's around two hundred fifty bucks month. What explains his high salary? We They know exactly how ISIS pays its fighters because of the work of researchers like I'm into Mimi, who have found And these salaries letter payment is according to the family, and judging that you have we often seem for how little we know that it's a stipend system based on how many dependence who have often for social dialogue, the child's they would pay twenty five. So an unmarried fighter, who has no children, starts out at a base. Pay of around fifty bucks again rejected asylum, yet we know that they pay

extra for twice that you have. They pay extra for the number of children that you have that are under the age of fifteen children, thereby find force he's still a hundred thousand. What his own calculations So, as I was pushing him on the numbers, did I dont remember exactly how they were saying. He then claims that he was in fact with ISIS for just a few months, and they asked him to do something that he was. Comfortable with what they did. So he said I dont want to work with you anymore, so he he quit and he quit without any repetition This is both a socially just, don't like. If you don't want to talk to me, that's why but I do I dont want to waste the last few days we have here doing. Interviews with somebody was lying to me at this point even hawk, you were onto him. I mean at that point. I was almost done because The one thing I know is you don't just join ISIS. It's it's not like some sort of you know.

Why? I'm scared that you join and then decide that you want to quit the next month. And then I had a terrible thought. Tat could explain the discrepancy in his fingers. They also give a supplement if you had a virus, if you had to buyers China, laughable realized that moment that he might have had a severe. Is that he has in his own and has on care the lawyer. First of all forgotten the hungarian homelessness. Just to coordinate Serbia is the term that ISIS uses to refer to their female sex slaves. How old are you don't wanna shop Is ensues fifteen when he took her demonstrate capture when she was twelve? Yes,

Tens of thousands fled the weekend, assault on single and are now surrounded so back and twenty fourteen desperation mountain not long after they took the city of most people, growth for aid locally cop, the ices turn its attention to the north to, comments in time- and it was there tat- they attacked a religious minority company s days- are learning more about the stranded members of religious minorities. So horrific stories are emerging. You might remember the really heartbreaking images that came out around this time of the helicopters ending on top of the mountain and dramatic rescue mission, the helicopter touchdown for five very precious but awful minutes and of people just rushing in an effort to escape ISIS.

Bet. Invasion was widely reported as just another territorial conquest, as as ISIS trying to get more land, but in fact, based on the dozens of interviews that I've done with the survivors and based on the documents that ISIS released its clear that this was a sexual conquest. They were going there specifically to get the women and girls so reduces. Explain It is that slavery factors into ices is vision for the world. So the thing to always keep in mind is ISIS is trying to recreate a specific time in history there trying to take us back to the seventh century and specifically, to the time when the prophet Mohammed and his companions room the earth. Which, in their minds, was the most virtuous period in our history right and, of course, that was a time once slavery.

Existed where it was common, not just in the muslim world, but in much of the world, and that is reflected in islamic scripture. Slavery exists and is mentioned as a lawful institution in the Koran and in the corpus of islamic terrorists prudence. This is the body of laws that was written down after the death of the prophet Mohammed, where it is codifying now what ISIS is doing is they are telling the world because it appears in scripture. It is our duty to uphold it right. We as Muslims have to take the whole back every aspect of it and their beef with the muslim world is that they are applying only some of the rules and the ones that no longer jive with modernity are are being ignored by slave right. So that's the framework. Then, within this framework they have mind this body of islamic laws.

To lay out the steps through which a person is his a woman isn't life, Do this in their magazine, the beak they dude and pamphlets that their religious or scholars This was like something they made for for their followers dexterity how to get the hell out of here, it's literally or how to its acumen. I, with their religious scholars on who you can enslave. How do you do it and they ve plodded out, starting with the question of what type of women can you take S life and what ISIS does is they point to stories from the life of the prophet, homemade and of his companions stories of battle when they invaded areas that were non Muslim and they took everything, but they found their both the property and the people as war spoils. So the key is a battle in time. War and the victims have to be non Muslims. That brings us to the authorities there.

About half a million years. It is most of them in Iraq, the yes, it is believed, and seven sacred angels befallen ancient religion derived from Zora, Westerners and so an ice us feel they are much more. Can this is the arabic word for polytheists? So the fact that they practise a non muslim faith and the fact that I This invaded their land in a time of war meant that, in the view of the terrorist group, they were fully eligible for enslavement, but they go one step further. They describe the act of raping these girls as essentially a wholly act, and this isn't just something that I think they say is not just begun. Let us not just written down. I knew now from the numerous interviews I've done with the women and girls who survived that the fighters who took them literally prayed before they got it.

With them and rape them. They were true. The rape as a kind of sacrament village it out of here. In that case, seizure, harder eulogies. What happened to her, where she now without incident Nea had turned her into the security forces so back in the prison or sitting with Bashar God that I did, I did it just to get her out your family. I didn't do any of the frosties. He said, that's how I do it Why did it I just water in order to give us some? He then makes this incident. Credible claim. I felt really bad, because these daughters belong to families. They shouldn t have been death like this. He says that he basically bought a fifteen year old girl for the price of five

thousand dollars this is more than a years worth of his salary, and he says that he bought her for the sake of essentially saving her. I asked him: did you reverses? No, I swear to God. I gave her he swore up and down that he had never touched her. I told her that I dont think like these guys any said that in fact, even an arrangement with her family and family I told him that if you don't touch you're going to rescue her when he got in touch with the girls father. The father was so relieved and so grateful for what he had done, that he in fact offered to help Fleda city, but some guy then am I am ducks and he could tell. I think that that I was sceptical and so what he did is he threw it back in my camp and he said, go find this girl, can assure the girl, I'm sure, is going to back up everything. I said what I I want you to tell her family, and so I thought, ok I'll. Do that,

kilometers. Olaf is really very sorry to bother you. How are you good good for that? We are at the police station here and we just interviewed a nice guy who had yesterday girl and wondering there a hi, I'm Kristen minds are and I'm the co host of innovation uncovered a new podcast. The world is changing in real time, often in ways we don't notice and can't predict innovation. And covered explores the breakthroughs that our driving our culture now from how

play to what we consume to how we can act more more What the ideas that are reshaping our reality in extraordinary way is innovation uncovered as upon cast from invest, go cute. You too, and t brand at the New York Times, listen today in basque distributors ink so I just wanted to ask His permission once again to interview him. If that's ok, you oughta than under container pool to present at every point of any measure. I exits area approve still less than twenty four hours. We were back at the prison just just to confront this. Also doing a recording he has. He has said it's ok to interview him

and he explained to us that he went to great lengths to save. I guess that girl that he bought for five thousand dollars and that his and buying her words to essentially free her and to give her back to her family. I didn't. If that story, and he challenged and said to try to get a hold of the same woman who look on it the shore didn't knowing, as he was sitting across from me as I have deep contacts in the yes community We ve got a hold of the young woman she's fifteen years old, actually she's a girl and we're going to call her now again up until one plus, we ass a of course, I send a hero. My here, that's her.

Hey, fella, fuller, high Haifa. It struck me have you on speaker phone and the ICES prisoner, whose name is Bashar, is sitting next to me and and we'd like please, to put you on the phone. Ok, Sonoma Leggum might have another half year. Amerika is me, Iraq mini? Thank you think so On the other end of the phone was the youngest girl where was holding her name at her request? Should she was talking to us with the permission of her father, who was at her side and translating for us

was a necessity community leader named fuller and right away. She says it's not one month it was five once it was five. That's ok! The girl identified this man as the person who had bought her. She confirmed his line of work.

She confirmed what he looked like. She even confirmed his voice. She does recognise his voice when he does not have the assault on seven January. Donovan saw the horse up a lot. Of course. I know she went on to tell us that he was in fact the third man that had bought her, I'm sorry to ask a sensitive question, but can you please tell me until this man, if he abused you sexually, if he raped you in this fight these five months that he held you buy Eulogise, ass well, ass, you did was any solely highlighted. The college just energy and other shovels fill out of her mistress origin in tv. Her we're gonna die now who

So a few yards airline. She says. Yes, I swear to God. All of them have taken my virtue and my honour, and I asked what he himself did. He do something said. Yes, she does. She did and I swear to Allah hid it ever today. She would come to me- and you too have settled she said to the shore was cruel to her His suit uses used to beat me, and he used to ask my father for ransom that he used to either to give him ten thousand years or he's going to start to Syria. She also said that he did indeed contact her father. He had said that he had done as much, but it wasn't to help her to rescue her. He was contacting her father to shake him down for ransom. Did did he pray before raping her? Yes,

Please tell her, I'm so sorry for what she's experienced and tell her my own mother was raped and she should not feel in any way ashamed by by what has happened to her. It was not her fault. I have here a minute converge on aspects of shortage. What college had? What did you hear me? figure out what I took them. Thank you. Follow I'm gonna cut the phone now think we'll take care of the untouched by the sharp, which are now I'd like to ask him what what he says. He challenged me yesterday and said to get this girl on the phone that she would basically recalled what he said. She sang exactly

opposite. What is this reactions I set about her good had done with it? I should have me: I'm gonna, had Google Colombo via Ancona were what I had good eighty and as such, it would enable more ass. A lotta natural alumni Bashar swore on the name of God that everything he had done it if it had been for this young girls good, he had done it. To save us, whoever dash I'm illuminated back. You know governing area that any stuck in a story even as pretty much every other part of his story. But to fall apart now. It is from bottle from those in a lot of the place that he had joined. Isis change No, it wasn't always does. He admitted tat. He had held her for five months. Not one yesterday was the amount of time that he had been an ISIS started to expire.

And his keys his meeting her on some of the details. What I'm telling you it's all the truth and us nothing, but the truth not contradicting, and I'm not lying to you and that's that's what I have so much I'm just a journalist. Ok, I'm not a member of any security force. I'm not member of any government, I'm asking you do. Want to tell me what really happened with this girl or do not want to be interviewed, and after some time he just stopped answering my questions and at that point I knew that it was time for us to go. Sir,

Do you know what happened to Bashar so the tail, but we saw him told us that the transport him to Baghdad, but when we call back tat, they have no record of him, so I dont actually know what happened to him. What we do know for sure is that the iraqi government is again Fifthly, prosecuting these people and their holding trials that are incredibly hasty and human rights groups have criticised that type of justice, saying that these hasty trials are first of all, a fire leading the due process of the prisoners, and there's worries that perhaps people who are not ices members are being implicated. But beyond that, there also saying that this is a violation of the rights of the victims.

Because they are not being given a chance at closure, their not being given a chance to know to even know what happened to their tormentors and, in fact, since that phone call that we made in that jail, we ve been able to get back in touch with the young girls Father, and he told us that the fact that his daughter was able to confront her rapist in that way was cathartic for her. But the fact is this young girl wouldn't have even known that he was in jail if it weren't for this accident of journalism, if it weren't for the that a group of New York Times. Journalists just happened to walk into this prison on this particular day, so as possible that she would have thought that he could have just been out

I mean the world living in the world's now right. What these men tat lives on in the hearts of the women and girls are left behind.

How does your home impact your house can virtual reality? How million suffering from loneliness I'm science, journalist Korea's power and I'm culture, credit Kristen minds? Are we teamed up with invest? Go cute, you? U T brand at the New York Times to create innovation uncovered the world. Changing in real time, often in ways we can predict on innovation uncovered. We share stories about the groundbreaking people in technologies there reshaping our culture right now. Listen, though wherever you get your podcast in basque or distributors, ink