Rumors had been swirling for days before Myanmar’s military launched a coup, taking back power and ousting the civilian leader, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi.
Myanmar’s experiment with democracy, however flawed, now appears to be over.
Today, we examine the rise and fall of Aung San Suu Kyi.
Guest: Hannah Beech, The New York Times’s Southeast Asia bureau chief.
For an exclusive look at how the biggest stories on our show come together, subscribe to our newsletter. You can read the latest edition here.
Background reading:
- The coup returns Myanmar to full military rule after a short span of quasi-democracy. Here is what we know.
- Myanmar seemed to be building a peaceful transition to civilian governance. Instead, a personal struggle between military and civilian leaders brought it all down.
- Aung San Suu Kyi, once considered a shimmering icon of democracy, has lost her halo.
For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From your times. I'm Michael about this today in me unlock a decade. Long experiment in democracy appears to be over
after online slight election victory? For months ago, the country's civilian leader was removed from power this week by the country's military. Today, my colleague Hannah B,
on the rise and fall of answered. She
It's Thursday February forth, and I wonder if you can describe this coup set the scene for us. So a lot of us went to sleep on Sunday night,
thinking that there were all these crew rumours in the air- and I had been going on this kind of coup fervour four days in Myanmar and we went to bed thinking. This is something that could happen, but we don't really-
think it's going to happen, and so well
sleep and then suddenly are phone start ringing
The news is bad Nobel Peace Prize winner unsung suit. She has spent more than a decade, and attention has been detained once again by the military dominance and said she had a Nobel Peace Prize lie at who led the civilian government had been detained, and then we entered this kind of awful mix of grammar and find infection. There were no shots fired as they rounded up and arrested an unknown number of its elected leaders and members of me
Irish pro democracy party- maybe this person's car- maybe that's persons gone. There is very little information. That is clear and we suddenly at this moment when the military goes back to Canada or the stricken widespread internet outages, which is to cut much of the telecommunications in the country. Suddenly, Facebook MESSENGER goes down, even some landlines are disconnected and I think it was at that point
and we realise this is real- is happening. Militaries back in power, and this experiment with democracy, however, fly
for me and my wife was over.
What were you thinking when you realise that there had in fact been a good thing for me
we people in Myanmar and the world. The story of the country is about one woman right towns
said she and she's both considered a heroine of democracy and a villain for her defence of the military's ethnic cleansing of their anger, and what this coup proves is that it's also said she and her relationship with a military. That is the crux of everything that happened in the country and where the control be going in the future. So where does that story that relationship with the notary start so answered? She was born into political and Willie military nobility our father was an independence hero fighting ass, the british. He was the founder of the modern burmese army. The country at the time was called Burma Myanmar, but he was also assassinated when she was two years old and in nineteen sixty two, the military unleashes its first coup and the country was under direct army rule for the next almost fifty years. During that time, it also said she spent most of her years overseas. She went to Oxford ass. She got me
She had kids, but innate in eighty eight. She went back to my mind and she was suddenly catapulted in front of a crowd shredded on pagoda, which was their holy aside in the imo, and she gave a speech to thousands of people who are protesting. Military rule
The obvious thing incredibly nervous, but she delivered an amazing speech
and at that moment I think she really can claimed her political birthright, which was that of a daughter of a former military hero com
for the end of a certain era and military rule yeah, they think fit. Great leaders have the key to their leaders,
thrust on them or something they have in their blood and in also species case. She had both things in her at the same time and she used
steely military resolve that was part and parcel of who she was. That was part of a political dna to survive. What happened next, which was that the military arrested her and she spent fifteen years in house arrest, so her first major brush with military, is that it contains her. Despite her personal links to Myanmar's military past, she is seen as a threat to the military leadership of the country. Yeah, that's true one of the things that dance on since she did that really
threatened that the military was. She starts, a political party of the National League for democracy, which ended up becoming that the kind of main opposition force for decades, and while she was under house arrest at this point, she was still not giving in to the generals. To take one example: she her husband, I was dying of cancer in Britain and the hunter said. Ok, you can leave the country, but it was a one way ticket and she refused an. She turns her country over her family and anything.
People of Myanmar, remembered had so, while she's under house arrest and under the thumb of the military, she is becoming a kind of folk hero to her fellow countrymen, she's becoming a heroine of democracy. She is the one could talisman that the country has to believe in
Everyone, the mark about things about going to your mind than in the battle day is, is that you would meet people and they would have photographs of advance hostility and they would show them to you in secret. Another will be in a book
hidden between their walls and in shocks and the currency to say: okay you're on the right side of history. If you accept this photo that you have all this woman who was kind of a goddess and heroin in the n, a little icon, all wrapped into one and it popped
contest, and there is no contest dance answered, she got on top and then in two thousand and ten also said she was released from house arrest was released way. Think the hunter had spent years staircase actually creating a road map for what it called discipline flourishing democracy, which is kind of an oxymoron, a political system. But essentially it was a hybrid civilian military system in which there is a kind of facade
democracy in which there would be an elected government. But at the same time the military would be able to control major lovers of power in the country, and it was something like that they created because they thought that they may have neutralised as us achieve as a political threat, because she was constitutionally barred from becoming
accident. But what I think the military didn't really realize was that also see cheese. National League for democracy was not spent force set in two thousand and fifteen in the first really
elections I in a generation in Myanmar there,
National League for democracy wins a landslide victory and also she this opposition
Where is fun by the de facto leader of a civilian government, when the Nobel Committee choose to honor me, the road I had chosen of my own free will became a less lonely path to follow. For this I thank the committee and people's all over the world who support, has strengthened my faith in the
the quest for peace. Thank you and ass. She became a leader and, as she started, traveling the world and collecting international human rights a words and becoming this like incredibly charismatic Nelson Mandela kind of figure from your mama. I think the Miller
wait a second. We have unleashed something that we didn't expect and they were shocked and horrified right, and we have talked to you in the past Hannah about this phase and on such issues.
Political career and involves a leader who was once a prisoner and is now a civilian elected official becoming a kind of international darling.
It came sort of a moment in global political history, where we really wanted the Good NEWS story right I mean this. Was this rare example of generals peacefully handing over power to a noble Peace Prize laureate and her charisma was incredible that time because begin by saying what a great figure it is for me to welcome President Obama's again to my house,
to be able to meet all of you present a bomb. I came to visit me on my good afternoon. Everybody Magala and its Small South EAST asian country was in this house that she endured years of confinement, never giving up hope and these leaders were like giggling school kids around her, never wavering at her determination to build a free and democratic Burma. It wasn't Michael puffing collage this kind of democratic experiment, and this kind of wonderful political honeymoon continues until two thousand and seventeen is kind of horrifying game. Changer
and remind us what happens then in two thousand and seventeen, the military steps up its decades of persecution of thee, Ruhinga muslim Minority, hundreds of thousands of left home
in Myanmar, where they face the military offensive following
aims that ranger militants were guilty of attacking police checkpoints them and unleashed slaughter, and mass rape and executions and hundreds of villages were burned. More than half a million ranger Muslims have not read across the border into Bangladesh and over the past three days, some fifteen thousand refugees have been stranded
With limited supplies of food and water in the end, more than seven hundred and fifty thousand ruhinga fled to Bangladesh and they're, probably not gonna, go home forever, and this is my friend
Aubrey Dubai and, on the whole,
our baggage- and this was a pivotal moment in the political narrative of Gas- has achieved because, instead of condemning this ethnic cleansing, this human rights icon, this heroine of democracy doesn't really say anything. She kind of an accuses the military. No, no, it's not ethnic cleansing at sir. It's an
the problem, and yet there is linked to old problems as well in two thousand and eighteen chief and went to the Hague and when we are my, was being investigated for genocide and international quiet and defended their actions. Regretfully, the Gambia S place before the court and incomplete misleading factual picture of the situation and require state in number and
only had this really dissonant awful note in this political fairy tale.
And how do you explain heard fence, in some cases her abetting of the military's genocide or campaign against the ruhinga? They think that there is in Myanmar a feeling that the hunger are ultimately for interlopers
the country and that in a buddhist majority nation, their certain people who don't belong, and I think that as us achieve as unpalatable as it might be to say, shares those
she could have used her moral authority to say to the wild luck, we condemn all violence and we think that any actions by a military against and innocent people is wrong. And instead she refused to even used the word ruhinga, because by doing so she was kind of giving humanity to a persecuted ethnic minority over the consequences of her decision to defend the military in this genocide or campaign. But it depends on wish audience you're talking about overseas. There was a complete disaster. She lost
turn HALO as to human life angel in her hair was a Nobel Peace Prize laureate who wasn't calling out the military for what could be considered genocide. I can have SEC minority at home. He gave her support from two very different groups of people wanted people who believe that democracy is the future
for the country and others who are nationalists, who might have been on the side of the generals but believe that she was also promoting their interests or the way back.
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by defending the military and by a bedding, their conduct towards the ruhinga than on sons who she is somehow betrayed by the Miller,
and removed from power by the military Junta. That happen, I think, fundamentally, it sprang fun
framing and then really frosty relationship with the guy. Who is the real ruler in Myanmar
thus Senor general men on line whose military commander in chief and what do we know about him. So?
online became military chief about a decade ago, and even though does answered she had cultivated good relationships with other military leaders. She never really have.
Personal chemistry, with him one of the net names that he picked up at a military academy. You was referred to cat feces, meaning that he would deposited quietly and kind of leave a powerful state ends and walk away. So he doesn't necessarily have a kind of warm and fuzzy personality, and I think it also to cheat when she refused to kind of cultivated relationship with him. She left him kind of out in the cold, and why would I be? It would seem like a risky thing for the civilian leader of a government. That's really one by the military to do you. I think you're right, but I think fit.
What has created and what is in dozens of cheese. Political dna is an unwillingness to about the generals, so I think
General Malone. Lying went from feeling simply ignored to really feeling threatened, and that sense was really heightened last November, when than
made for democracy, won reelection that brought it even more of a landslide victory and it had received into
in fifteen and suddenly also answered she,
even more powerful she's, even more beloved in the country- and this was really not according to the general plan
What exactly? What a commanding officer in the Myanmar military have to fear from a highly
popular civilian leader if, as you said earlier Hannah, this is a system.
That is stacked in favour of the military men. What, in his worst nightmare, could answer unsuited to damn thing off.
Did she has proved over the years that she can do a lot to the military that they didn't expect her to be able to do. We know what one thing that she could do was that he's supposed to retire this summer, as as military chief he's he's already passed retirement age and from what we ve been told, he wants to secure his legacy and his fortune and they ve been many examples in the past of general super
hired and then they have had their their freedom and their wealth taken away from them. In political approaches- and he didn't want that to happen to him
he also despite the fact that he may be somewhat uncaring. Matic appears to have wanted to be president, but also answered. She denied him any conversations about this.
Why, because she's banned from being President sounds like he's not yes, so since two thousand and fifteen she has engineered it so that her loyal political lieutenants have served as president and I dont think in her political calculation having the former army chief as
and it was sentiment that she wanted. So I think at this point, General MILAN line has an existential decision to make you know either he tries to retire quietly and hope that he's not purged or he gives up on his dreams of the presidency or he does
thing which the military is condition to do and which he has. The commander in chief of the army has the power to do, which is to unleash a coup right, which, of course, he did which of course, yes, he did. Ultimately, this coup was very much about personal animals between two
Manderson chief in the country, one? Who was their military chief meal lying and one who is the Seville.
Leader accounts answered she had. It strikes me that answered. She never really figured out how to navigate her relationship with the military in Myanmar. This relationship, a very much defines her entire life at first.
Once a foul of the military she is in prison by them, then she is given a chance to become a civilian leader by them and in that role she defends them after their horrific
conduct, but she can never really give them enough security and enough assurance, and they end up selling her out and she ends up with nothing. Sir, I think that's the tragedy of of who also said she is now she thought
against international critics. Who said, oh you're, you're human rights activist by saying no, I'm a politician. But the truth is that she hasn't really pin good either as a human rights icon or as a politician. Even though she had these landslide election victories. As a politician. She failed because she didn't reach out to the military. She didn't negotiate with them and I think the car irony
he asked who answered she is. Is that her failing in negotiating the military is because of this kind of military resolve that Spain into who she had seen her she's got that steely spine and in this future state of house her asked that may be what carries had through, but it put her in a position as a politician where she was not willing to do. Can the dirty work of talking to people who have unpalatable for her to doktor? Where does all this
leave the people of Myanmar. Now that this coup is done and answer. She is back in detention. What struck me
most on monday- was how
quickly. Myanmar has returned to the battle days. Seen omen, fear pervaded,
people didn't know who, for the respect of trust, and the thing is that the muslim memory of how do operate under what was essential.
To tell his hearing system, where the walls had eyes, and here is the Burmese say,
memory and those kind of reflexes have returned, and so you start speaking in Cody no start taking down your facebook posts. Are me. Take down your flags, this kind of atmosphere of fear, it's also a company
it already by incredible bravery also says she's. Most famous essay is called freedom from fear, and last night there was this civil disobedience campaign in which
a world beating pots and pans in and enhancing their cars in unison, its small thing. But if this kind of symbol of of the power of freedom from fear and that the people
we allow aren't gonna give up. They ve gone through too much to do so now. I think, regardless of whether she sent attention are not also said, she is, and always will be, the heroine of democracy for her country, even if the military subvert that democracy, even if the international community questions as human rights icon, because what happened with the remainder, she is still to her country,
artists and nothing is going to change that even locking up thank you represent. Thank you very much on Wednesday. At the behest of
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at Norton dot com, Slash daily, here's. What else you need ten thirty! The rules committee will come to water. We have never had a hearing like this one before the first reason is that we are
never had a member like this. Before on Wednesday House Democrats said they would seek to remove republican congresswoman Marjorie Taylor, green of Georgia from two committees over her extreme and baseless statements. Democratic leaders have scheduled a vote on the matter for today. After concluding that house, republican leaders would not act against Green on their own secretary. Them is that the fork
Greece has never had to take this step when something like this has happened in the past leadership on both sides always did the right thing in past comments. Marine has endorsed, executed, democratic leaders like how Speaker Nancy Policy falsely said that the September eleventh terror attacks or a hoax and fabricated. The claim that the devastating California wildfires were caused by on leisurely shot from outer space. This is not a close call serving on a committee is not a right. It is a privilege, tidies episode
was produced by Luke Vanderpool Diana with Robert Jemison End Lindsey Garrison? It was edited by LISA child. An engineered by Chris would
That's it for the daily I'm Michael by Cinema, despite cast supported by the University of Pennsylvania for more than fifty years, researchers at the University of Pennsylvania have made groundbreaking discoveries that of health, develop lifesaving vaccines in pen, labs, students and faculty are using these discoveries to aid in the fight against covered nineteen named the fourth most innovative university in the world by writers. It's all discovered, taught and made a pen visit pen today that you pen DOT Eu for more information.
Transcript generated on 2021-03-24.