From the New York Times, unlike other borrow, this is a day to day as nation wide protests over the death of George Floyd enter a second week. A conversation with a leader, of the city where it all began mayor cheek of FRY of Minneapolis it's Wednesday June third blow this agenda bright. Mr Mayer, it's my goal. Barbara I Michael thanks for having me thank you very much for making time for us, because we know what an in time. It is in your city and we really appreciate it. You got it, So just a start, mayor frightened, I want to go back

to the moment when you learned about the death of George Void- and I wonder if you could describe that moment from your perspective and then tell me whether in moment you could have imagined that it would be? to where we are right? Now, when I first heard about the murder of George Floyd, I didn't know Of the facts, I received the call from our chief saying that there was an interaction with a black man and that black man had then been hospitalized. I didn't know yet whether he had died. I didn't know the nature of the interaction and then subsequently, of course, We learn more information. I learned that the officer involved incident resulted in George Floyd dying. I then saw the video which.

Was horrified to see our white Police officer press his knee into the neck of a black man who was unarmed, end handcuffed for a period of eight minutes straight. There is nothing more disgusting that I have ever seen in my life was as clear as day to me. There The normal protocols and procedures that are baked into the walls and mortar of of city hall that tell you not to do something not to speak out, not to say something wrong, because if legal reasons and all sorts of other issues that I have had the throw those away- and so around six thirty in the morning as soon as the press was up and available, and we had at least collected

preliminary information about what happened. We held a press conference and my soul direction was that, let's just be honest, and since that moment our entire city has been reeling, angry sad, every single, negative emotion that you can think. That's where our city has been and I've been with our city and feeling it. You know, I asked you whether you could have imagined this response and hears. Why I'm asking that when the protests broke out the head of the Minneapolis and Tbilisi Leslie. Redmond said this quote. What you're witnessing in Minnesota is something that's been a long time coming, Tell you how many governors I sat down with how much mayors, we sat down with and we ve worn them that if you keep murdering black people, the city will burn. We have stopped the city from burning number.

Times- and we are not responsible for it burning now, so is there heavy industry cp in your state. Why I mean, were you warned and was this inevitable, the head of the end, w c p could not be more correct. This is not just about the eight minutes of time. Were our officer had his knee on George Floyd's neck? This is about the previous four hundred years. This is about a hundred years worth of intentional segregation and institutionalized racism. This is about repeated instances, of officer mistreatment over decades, and the only reason it's coming out more often now is that its recorded on video and so on

This is not just about the eight minutes of this one instance. This has been a long time coming in many ways and its tragic, and all we can hope for now is that it leads two clear change. It sounds like you could imagine everything that has happened happening the way you're talking right now, that's but I guess what I'm getting at is: were you we are told by a black leader in Minneapolis that circumstances did not change. There will be a crisis. There will be something like. What I have just seen I'm asking you if you were given a warning of that kind I'm sure there have been numerous warnings over the past several years and decades yes mean. If you're asking. Has anybody ever said that the answers they have said that I have heard it does that make the burning of the city right? No, it doesn't

miss mere Tuesday's episode of of our show. The daily was about the history of the Minneapolis Police Department and why it has been so a call for mayors for police chiefs. Change, the culture and reprimand officers who commit acts of misconduct. Specifically in your city, we focused on the power of this union to set the terms and even more specifically, the head of your police union who has resisted change, and We successfully prevented a lot of it that been your experience? Yes, the elephant in the room with regard to police reform. Is the police union be

elephant in the room with regard to making the changes necessary to combat institutionalized racism and have a full on culture shift. Is the police union the contract associated with that union and then the arbitration that ultimately is necessary? It sets up a system where we have difficulty both disciplining and terminating officers who have done wrong, and so, if you want to see a full on culture shift, there's a couple things. It's get new officers in that embody the vision of our very forward thinking and very procedurally justice, oriented chief dando and get officers out who do not embody that vision. Both of those things need to happen. Do you currently have the power to do that, to bring a new, officers who do this job differently and get rid of cops who are problematic. We have

Billy to bring in new officers who do the work differently? In fact, she far down personally interviews every who cadet that comes in to make sure they have the right mentality that procedural justices instilled from the very beginning and that they have a compassionate approach. We do not have the ability to get rid of many of the officers that we know have done wrong in the past due to issues with both the contract and the arbitration associated with the union? And you know I mean, let me tell you, who are chief? His chief Redondo grew up on the south side, he's the kind of be caught dead, like no every person on the street and those who their parents. I mean that is the way the policing ultimately should be done here. Even suit our police department for racial discrimination and one right and now here

our chief and he is a person of the utmost integrity and I've seen him make very quick and decisive decisions to terminate or discipline officers who have wrongful conduct, but I have also seen so many instances where we are hamstrung were hamstrung by the architecture of this system that prevents change and protects officers from being held accountable, and if we really want to see the massive culture shift, it is essential that we need to have that ability, and right now in many instances. The truth is we don't. I think it may surprise listeners to hear that the mayor of the city, the executive of Minneapolis, can't get rid of a cop who has been credibly, accused of misconduct and maybe a surprise but its oftentimes, the truth

I mean you're talking about the need for pretty profound structural change here. And you're the mayor right, I mean, if electing demo, Medical? Yours have committed to progressive policies and to reform is not enough to effect structural change, And then what else would you expect people to do but take to the streets? to represent themselves in another way, right because the vote

the election of you didn't. Do it I'm not the first elected mayor that has been for structural reform in the police department. I would say the previous three mayors from Sharon's Hills belt into Archie ride back to Betsy. Hodges all wanted to see reform within the police department, but they, like I have encountered, is one nearly impenetrable barrier, which is the union contract in the way it set up. There are other forms of change that can occur outside the context of the police Union contract and they need to be made but to tackle the full ball of wax we can't just ignore that elephant in the room. So would you hope that that is an outcome of all of us major changes to that union contract? I would mean all of the anger you ve seen over. The last

last week has shown how much urgency there is. I mean when we talk about getting to a point of peace were not asking for. Patients. This is something that needs to happen, and, yes, it has been a long time coming in. So, if nothing else, let's channel this anger to get to a result that leads to a shift in policing back.

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gestures and then some of them turned violent. Will. Let me be clear: there is a difference between protesting and looting. I am for the peaceful protest. I am for an expression of first amendment rights, but those expression of first amendment rights. Stop when you talk about endangering our city and burning down what for generations people had built up. The burning of a black business which has for decades been pillars of of community, does not help to create the change we need to see in our police department in any way shape or form the ransacking of o latino restaurant doesn't somehow create the change in the police department or push back on structural racism in any way shape or form voicing your phone.

The men, the rights and peacefully protesting- yes, absolutely, but when it is shifted to violence, that's a shift that I dont believe any of us should tolerate you feel that you are responsible in any way for that, shift. Was there a decision There are set of decisions you made that you now feel more the wrong ones, that They have allowed some of these peaceful protest to turn into looting, burning. Every single day, I feel the weight of responsibility on my chest. I am the mayor and at the end of the day, yes, I'm a responsible party I am sure, in the weeks and months from now on,

swill analyze, the occurrences that happened in the decisions were made again and again again, and I am certain that there are things that I will look back on- that I should have done differently right now is our city is still reeling from the murder and the subsequent looting. I can tell you with certainty, but I think clearly will be a lot of analysis there will that will come in the weeks and months ahead online. That you face idling. Let me be clear, we want. Let me look, I think I think I think when I came out right at the beginning and said this was wrong. It was unacceptable. It was a heinous murder that was the right decision when the chief and I decided to immediately terminate the for officers that were involved. That was the right decision. When I asked for the charging

of officer Shovin. That was the right decision and when we saw looting throughout our city- and we spoke out very clearly to say this is wrong and it needs to stop immediately. That was the right decision to in all, but Like you, I wouldn't wish on any one to be in the rooms there, I've been in over the last week to make the decisions that I've had to make in many instances where there is no chance of a positive outcome. No matter what you choose, you are choosing between two negative outcomes, no matter what

Yeah, that's tough! What are what are those outcomes just to be clear? Will, for instance, on Wednesday I got a call from our chief of police. It said he said the target is being looted. Our police officers are not going to have the numbers or the recent Is to combat what is likely to come. It wasn't a matter of planning or strategy, but simple math and having to choose between allocating officers to protect a precinct or escort fire fighters that needed to put out fires or pay

and businesses from getting looted when you have to choose between options like that. That is a fail, fail, failed decision, no matter what you choose. There are at least a couple negative outcomes, and then the problem is even more compounded by the fact that the body of the Minneapolis Police Department that we were counting on to keep people safe through the looting was the entity that originally caused that makes the issue even more difficult moment. At a certain point, your governor TIM was called in the States National Guard, but he declined to accept help from the. U S military. When it was offered. Did you think that was a mistake given how violent the protests became? No, I think our governor made the right decision there why this was a guard sized crisis and demanded a guard site.

Response, as became very clear, there was no possible way that our police department was going to be able to handle this on their own and until we saw the full mobilization of the National Guard. We were having issues after that full mobilization took place. We were able to quell the looting. We were able to stop the violence in and the burning, and so no I I think it was the right decision to mobilise the full force of the national garden. I also wanted to make sure that that leadership in most, Zation came from the state, not the president is there's something about. The idea of the federal I'm getting involved the EU objective. Well, just look at the rhetoric that, coming from the president, I mean he's talking about shooting people.

Mean the whole purpose of the National Guard coming in is to create peace, not diminish it. The whole point of creating a sense of order is to stop the looting of businesses, not having communities overridden with militia. There is a dramatically different philosophy that the president has then hours here in Minnesota. You ve talked about the difference between the leaders and the peaceful protestors, and I won't talk from one about Yahoo is actually in the streets of your city. Yes, this is a quote from you on Saturday, when you spoke about the violence and in some of these buildings that were burning You said we ve seen long term institutional businesses overridden we community institutions set on fire, and I want Very very clear: the.

People that are doing this are not Minneapolis residents. Is that? Still your understanding, I think of it. People who are doing the looting in many cases were not from this state and not from the city and sadly, as it turns out, others were the governor was he initially set something quite similar here his language was, this, is outsiders This is not many citizens and then later on, he went back and said you know what that may have been wishful thinking on my part, I hoped it was outside is, do you think you hoped it was outside or two? I think that a fair point, I think we are.

All to use governor walls is quote, got a little bit out over our seas? Is it the case that there were looters coming from outside of our city to burn buildings down? Yes, is it also true, that some of our own community members were involved. Yes, its tragic. This may seem like a kind of unusual question, but at the end of the day, why does it matter to you to governor walls. If the people doing this are out Cyrus. If Americans are angry Does it matter whether or not there for Minneapolis or Minnesota its so incomprehensible to consider burning down your own block. I mean your people generally have an affinity to the city in which they grew up or the city where they live.

No, you, you know the guy who operates the corner store. You have the local barbershop that you go to on a monthly basis. To even consider negatively impacting those businesses, those institution, those community centres in grocery stores. I can't even begin to understand it Mr Marin, I'm curious, but something an affront. I want to acknowledge that it may not be in your mind, Ferris question no police killing. The death of George Void in your city by your employees has, by this point, led to protests across the United States. These extraordinary expressions of anguish. Sadness and and violence in stores and businesses have been broken into and ransacked from Minneapolis

to LOS Angeles. To New York, I mean is quite literally a fire raging across the country in your city. Was the original spark Do you feel any responsibility for that. Every single second of every single day. I feel that responsibilities, mayor of the city where this occurred. Yeah this has been, I mean. Look, this is not about me is not about me, I mean, but to say this has been one of the worst weeks in our cities. History would be a massive understatement, And to say that this has been the worst week of my life would be accurate. How do you think that this ends and how do you hope that a sense.

If there is a moral ending to what's happened, to can only end in one way, which is first justice for George Floyd in the form of a full charge and then conviction. But moreover, it needs to end in true changed to howl. Police departments across the country function to how were able to make decisions issued discipline terminations as to how we can create these police departments the truly protect and serve community? I mean that's one version. Medicines, but given that the president is getting more and more involved, given that he's calling on states to crack down

for a more militarized response. Are you afraid that there is a version of this that ends with their that further division between black communities and the police and the government. Yes, that scared the hell out of me. We cannot go down that path. What we cannot allow As for the vision and mentality of of Donald Trump to come into our city, in the form of a militaristic rule, I mean the implications. Are more scary than I can even possibly imagine in Minneapolis and speaking only for Minneapolis. There is absolutely no need for any further force, so you think it's possible to stop the violence. Stop the looting, allow the peaceful protest to continue and not make worse in the process. The very problem started. All this which is exe

of policing in Minneapolis Mean that is the balance that everybody's trying to deal with right now and if you're saying that it's an easy balance with simple decisions, it is not I mean what you have to, though remember is where this all began. Where it began was the murder of an unarmed handcuffed black man.

George Voice was on the ground. He had his hands behind his back. He was calling out for help. He was calling for his mother and thats. What led to the subsequent issues? So yes, of course, the balance that you discussed needs to be struck, but there is no balance in a murder that started all this. Mr marry, when I want to thank you- and I want to wish you the best of luck for your city. We appreciate your time. Thank you Michael. I appreciate you,

On Tuesday, in dozens of military vehicles begin patrolling in blocking the streets of Washington, as President Trump appeared to me, good on his threat to use the military to crack down on violence and looting, there will be right back.

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the crowds and Republicans condemned the decision to violently remove peaceful demonstrators from a park across from the White House on Monday night, so that the President Trump could pose for photos in front Church there, after the president's reality, show ended last night, while the nation nervously watch the chaos that involves US resident trot. Probably weight in bed. Pleased with himself for sending another wrong on the dictatorial ladder. The times reported that the order to clear the park came from attorney general billboard, who accompanied Trump to the church finally congressmen, Steve King of Ion unknown

Tom Republican with a history of racist comments and inflammatory anti immigrant rhetoric was defeated in our public and primary on Tuesday night in a major political upset king lost to a state senator who had won the support of national Republicans, who said that kid had become an embarrassment to the party That's for the daily unworkable borrow see tomorrow. Hi, I'm Kristen minds are, and I'm the co host of innovation uncovered anew podcast the world changing in real time, often in ways we don't notice an can't protect innovation. And covered explores the breakthroughs that our driving our culture. Now from how we play

we consume to how we can act more more what the ideas that are reshaping our reality in extraordinary way as enemies, uncovered is upon cast from invest, go cute. You too, and t brand at the New York Times listened today in basque or distributors, ink