This message comes from fat, tire, America's first certified carbon neutral beer. Everyone loves the winter games, but climate change does not in fact, most cities that have previously hosted the games could soon be too hot to host again. Yet some of the games biggest sponsors stilled up have a meaningful climate plan visit point of. no returned dot com to join fat tyre and asking the International Olympic Committee to require all future sponsors to put climate action before add campaigns from New York Times. I'm likeable borrow. This is a daily today. Hundreds of that I have written an open letter to Spotify about their most popular podcast host Joe Rogan broke the misinformation on covered vaccines in the pandemic, spread on job Rogan podcast inside the controversy has engulfed Spotify. They say they are fed up with the misinformation Rogan here

then spreading about the pandemic and its biggest stop jus look Spotify has been pressure to do something about but it stood behind its most popular podcast what is required is taking down european. I spoke with my colleague Kevin groups about why this scandal is playing out so differently than those that came from WAR is Friday February. Another fellow cabin I go hello. This can be a little awkward this one. I would let slip into the right. Let's, let's get awkward

yeah. Let's just get it out of the way we are going to be doing upon cast about another broadcast yeah. It's it's unavoidable right, like the snake giving itself. This is gonna, be an aura Borlsover Pope Cast, but I think that an agreed so given before we get it. The reason why a lot of the country has been talking about your Wilkins. Let's start with how you came to the world of job, or, I should say like. I have been listening to Europeans podcast fur along time like it's one of the progress I listen to and unlike cooking or folding laundry you're like doing charge around the house, and it's kind of perfect for that, because it only requires about forty percent your attention and it also has nothing to do with my job, except, I guess now that I'm talking to you about it, it's part of our job right

is much up. So thank you for turning my non job, entertainment into my job pleasure, so for people who are not among the millions of listeners of jargon like you who is this guy? Where does it come from? How did he become this cultural phenomenon? It's comin interesting story, so to Rogan. He doesn't really like have a typical Reza may for a guy who's. A very popular interview show- and I think that actually has a lot to do with by people find him so authentic and approachable. He grew up working class as a teenager. He works on cancer. some sites and does various other jobs usually gets really really good. At martial arts like when he's nineteen, he actually wins a national take window championship, but he decides that he doesn't want to be a professional Marshall artist and so around the mid. Ninety nine these he decides to try his hand at

Other thing he likes, which is ever Mr Joan Road Map stand, are coming. Let's go right now, but I can assure the members, is the biggest problem. I have my life right now. He does a few performances every day, smart women, s, tough questions, you gotta, give real answers. Bimbos s really easy and eventual He moves to allay to pursue comedy full time and then in the two thousands. She gets this big break. Jerome- welcome to veer factor the stance here about when he agrees to host this show called fear factor. Three thousand score- I don't know if you remember fearful but at the of the it was this ridiculous premise for a show. You know people would cover themselves in leech? Is you know like got spider,

You are right, you, cognitive, Lears, exactly exactly Jerry, Jerry, don't freak out and he's the host of that show which runs for you more than one hundred episodes and just becomes like a national sensation, and he parlayed that into a gig as a commentator for Miss? Shall arts fighting truly is an honour to welcome back to the broadcasts team here and the ultimate fighting championship, the host of NBC Sphere factor, Joe Rogan, our old witch really having a moment right around this time. The you have c is becoming quite big, phenomenal fight, cannon we re going to have you. Gonna have been right here. You see that Israel and Social Rogan can it becomes like the public face of mixed martial arts fighting commentary and around two thousand three. He starts recording these conversations

that he was having with his friends these other comedians or makes martial arts fighters people that he knew from entertainment, business and he has this can have built in audience, for this shows or who have watched his commentary on tv and watched on fear factor these sort of renewed. You have see fans and comedy nerds end, honestly, mostly men and her first, the show is quite small. It's got a couple hundred listeners at a time, but he keeps at it and in two dozen nine record in sunder. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to abroad, ass. He moved his show to a platform called you stream and shortly thereafter rename it did Joe experience, It was supposed to be a play on the Jimi Hendrix

experience and in twenty thirteen. He makes another big decisions where he decides that, rather than just being a podcast he's, gonna take his show to Youtube and he's good videotape himself recording it. but the entire thing up on Youtube, and that decision is really what launches it into another stratosphere of reach, because there's a lot of people on you tube. They spend a lot of time there and it turns out that they are willing to sit through a two or three, our video of Rogan talking to another comedian or someone else who jargon finds interesting and, given you said his audience as it really starting to explode, is largely men. And what does that seem to be about here? I mean I think, of Jerome,

as kind of the patron saint of like a certain kind of american masculinity think about the guys. I know who really listen to him. A lot of these are, I see you know their smart. They work hard. They come home to their families, they like to drink beer and watch sports you have seen the weekends they like telling it joke now and then maybe they're, not people who are super political or plugged into whose but they'd like hearing smart people talk about stuff that interest them and Joe Rogan really is that guy and he loves that guy. He just like talk to them without being condescending or assuming that something is going to be to intellectual for them to out there for them. He just take treats these guys in his audience, with respect and kind of reflects them back to themselves. In a way, and the format of his show, really helps with that. Explain that what what characterizes the format, so

I guess maybe most useful is too contrasted with what we're doing right now, I'll keeping the daily is a hyper produced. Pod like us, us I'm here, I don't want to reveal too much of what goes on behind the curtain, but like yeah, it's a pretty produce show its is very varying in pre interviews, in fact, checking and like after we finish talking rating others like a team of producers and editors who will take these files and cut out all the pouring parts and admit that, in its a tight episode bright and the Jew, Rogan experience is basically the polar opposite. If it's for one extremely low like. Most episodes are more than two hours long. Many are like three or four hours long. It is

essentially Annetta, there's no like postproduction to does, because it just like what you see is what you get and it's very informal it spontaneous, and that spontaneity is what people like about it. It's what you imagine talking with your friends in your backyard over a bunch of beers would sound like so, in other words the medium in this case the message is transparent. Yet, breathing. Just as I made it exactly, what you see is what you get and he also like really dabbled in a wide variety of topics How is it possible to worry about not be sure? No problem area so he's got this whole like fitness out, fighting health philosophy, cave what's interesting about the vitamin k, one versions vitamin Katy loves have like doktor. extreme athletes. You're talking about vision, is or eating healthier, taking supplements rhetoric, Neptune,

moving a little a little unfamiliar early he's, got like thinkers and where my phone is sorry, bending drop the thing breaking people like Neil digress. Thyssen. People who talk about like ecology, Europe, astronomy or like gender medicine. He talks a lot like a lot alot about This vision that I had high on the empty, I saw an infinite number of those real. I saw one hovering here and then in between and Second Alex, especially like they're, just entire compilations. I do two of Joe Rogan just talking about, like you know, doing the M t like getting high the jungle off the venom of a rare tree. Frog like stuff like that, and Rogan has a manifesto. It's that these kinds of conversations are good.

and that you always need to keep learning and keep expanding horizons. So that's one side of Georgia. What's the other side, maybe it's not technically another side. It's just like heard of he is that really stands out and it ends up becoming very important later on and is basically a proclivity for conspiracy theories for sort of pseudoscience and unfounded claims and hearing out even people who believe pretty radical thinks and its import. Generic jargon has always been kind of a conspiracy theorist himself like he had questions about nine eleven, he is very into like you,

those end extraterrestrial life and he brings on a lot of people who traffic in conspiracy theories and miss true slake Alex Jones or, like you know, guy, who wrote a book talking about how the aid stop the pyramids in Egypt and given them into zero in on the name options for just a minute, because when we mention I'll Show- and I think we need to make very clear who right this is a man who Created a website at a show called info wars which, among other things, posits that what happened at the Sandy Hook Elementary school, that horrible massacre was actually a hoax and his proclamations around this resulted in the harassment of many of the parents who lost young children at sandy hook. So. our challenge is among the most polarizing, some would say: despicable people in our culture

and sometimes Joe Rogan argues with people, and sometimes you disagrees with his guests, but one of his trademarks is that he will let people talk like he is willing to hear them out even people whose views are so fringe or factually baseless that they basically couldn't get an audience anywhere else. Namibia, and for Joe Rogan fans, like that's part of the appeal like they don't want to be told what to think they want to be able to make up their own mind and they don't want Joe Rogan doing a lot of interrupting and fact checking, inventing and window Rogan gets asked about this or about that and of guests. He has on a show. He basically says: look, I'm not a journalist. I don't play by a journalist rules like I'm a comedian with a podcast and I'm just asking questions, but that's kind of damage

together again because, if you've listened to his show like you also know that he has his own views like white, strong ones. In fact, and maybe his biggest most obvious view, a talks about all the time is that he is just proudly auntie political correctness, like he's a like cancer culture. In these things that he just seizes like liberal pieties, he just don't believe in them, and he thinks that people on the laughter going overboard and this really resonates with his audience. Many of whom are a kind of also sick of being told that there the problem in some way. So here's a guy who creates a talk, show largely for guys and a key ingredient of that it sounds like you're saying, is defying

any of the norms and formalities that those guys may feel that a leak culture is trying to impose on them makes listeners, as you said earlier, Kevin Feel scene and, of course, turning to the show by the millions totally like he's telling people yeah. It's ok to be a man, it's ok, A white man. It's ok to be a white man who loves to watch. People beat each other up in a. U have see ring, and some of this might of look kind of the modern serve trump ism to people. Don't know him, but his politics are actually kind of square. in confusing in a way that kind of makes him a singular figure in so he's pro gay marriage he's pro legalizing we'd. He believes in climate change

and worries about in a renewable energy, like I wouldn't say, is show, is a political. He has a political view, but it's like a republican show or a democratic show. It's just kind of this show Rogan of the world and, as time goes on his audience, just explodes. and so by twenty fifteen or so something like of eleven million p all are turning into him. Her episode and this audience really translates to him being able to book bigger and bigger guests, and he starts to have these kind of moments, these viral clips that just really start to influence the culture and the one. I remember the clearest is the Eland Musk episode Says that a joint poyser, the cigar yet now, ok

marijuana in way of tobacco. Ok says I push so Elon musk the one of the richest man in the world and give a lot of interviews to the mainstream media goes on. Jergens pod cast an like its lights up, a joint I'm, not a regular worker of we'd. How often smuggling? Almost never I mean it's it's I dont actually noticed any effect when they go. There was an starts talking about very personal things and styled heard the ways brain works. I think when I was five or six or something I thought I was insane why'd, you think you're insane, because it is clear that our people do not want their mind, wasn't exploding with

is also time to assist strange, who is like and strange. My conclusion as strange interview currently has more than fifty million views on Youtube, just astonishing, totally crazy and at the time its publish like it just becomes. This kind of instant mean This thing that everyone is talking about that actually caused the stock price of Tesla to drop, because because there's like wait and see, I was talking about exactly there like he's doing what this is. The van were trust sick with billions of dollars and its at the height of his popularity in May of twenty twenty when Joe Rogan announces hello, everybody I haven't announcement, the pot cast is moving to Spotify,

I said that his show is being acquired by Spotify. I'm not going to be an employee of Spotify. We're gonna be work on the same crew. Doing the exact same show, the only difference will be. It will now available on the largest audio platform in the world, nothing else that they are paying him something. like a hundred million dollars for the rights to exclusively distribute his pod cast on their platform and given what mixture Rogan worth that much money to spot a five or it's important to put this in context of what was happening, the spot, if I, at the time so spot. If I started as a music streaming service ran the way it made most of its money was by basically getting people to pay a monthly subscription theme and then Spotify Streams, this music and it pays a percentage of whatever it makes to music labels and artists. And this was a fairly good business,

but not a great one, because it means that the more people use your service, the more money you have to pay out to musicians and labels, and surely they were kind of stagnating, but they noticed that there was this other audio format the podcast that was very attractive to them. For business reasons, pie cast had these super loyal audiences and they noticed that the people who listened to popular casts tended to also stick around and listen to a bunch of other music like like twice as much music as people who don't listen to broadcasts and given here we should say many people listen to the daily on Spotify. Yes, it's fairly likely that If you are listened to this right now, you are using Spotify, you may be a pang subscriber and after you get bored and turn this

often you're, probably in ago streams music, but it's not enough for spot. If I just to carry podcast because power casts are available on every point casting whom they want to build up, their own exclusive library of plug casts plug has that you can't get on Youtube or Apple or other pod cast apps. The things that you have to join Spotify to listen to, and that is certainly what your weapon is for them exclusive podcasting property on Spotify, exactly they figure. If we bring, over all of Europeans. Millions of listeners he's the biggest podcast or in the world that this point some number of them will turn into paying subscribers You will make money from the ads on his show, and this will all make our platform way more attractive and weigh more distinctive from ever

other audio up out there and doesn't work yeah. It really works as a business strategy decision. Spotify stock price goes, like investors love it and it does attract a lot of listeners of Europeans to Spotify and in the years following this deal, Spotify eventually surpasses apple to become the biggest pod cast platform in the world, but there are some people who are so to close this. They kind of understand, but Joe Romans all about, and they see Spotify getting into business. With someone who can sometimes, you know, address pretty controversial topics with controversial guests. as a potential danger, but its such

obvious win for spot. A five from a business perspective until Joe Rogan and is, I would say unique style of interviewing collides with a global pandemic or doing back this punk hast is supported by I share is the shift to a low carbon, call me is changing the way people invest. I share sustainable. Eighty s help position your portfolio to manage sustainability, related opportunities and risks such as climate change, get your share of progress at I shares dot com, slash sustainable visit. I shares that kind of your prospectus, which includes investment objectives, risks fees, fences and other information. You should reading consider carefully before investing risk includes principle ass. There is no guarantee

me fund will exhibit positive, are favourable sustainability characteristics prepared by Blackrock investments. Llc came across his article in the New York Times. The me to move made any IRAN. I just wanted to know more. I wanted to understand more about infrastructure. Taxi rule out I was reading about grandma's road tripping all over China about child care enough to use modern love story. She told me how important the crossword puzzle is too heard. So then it's hard to become something that we share the times always zoos and ends connects me to people around the world. Jordan from Lana Georgia. My name is Lana Fill and I've been us scrapper to the New York Times from the time. I was a child one year in eleven months for eight years, that new

times for me. As about the things that need to be aware of to navigate my life find out how the New York Times can fit into your life and why times, dot com, slash life. So, given? How does Joe Rogan Approach covers all earlier? The pandemic Jerome kind of does what your Rogan does like he has on. Scientists are people who are fairly mainstream. He talks about great vaccines are, but he also invites on these kind of fringe guest who talk about covered in do so in ways that are counter to mainstream health authorities and he kind of indulges these curiosities he has about in a locked downs and masks and other care of conventional wisdom. That he's kind of open minded about, shall we say,

and eventually he gets really into this idea of I ever met in which talked about on the show before this sort of anti parasitic drug limited usefulness uncovered but useful in other contexts, and in December of last year, he has this man named Doktor Robert Malone on his show, first world thanks for coming and earnest time, that's fix a Christmas present and not alone is credential doctor I got an empty Phd Scholarship Western University in Chicago he some early research into and a science, but he's since become a character who is basic a pariah among the medical establishment, he's

darling of the kind of republican Right- and he has this cave extreme anti vaccine conspiratorial beliefs of considers all these rumours that you would hear about what Hospital gets paid for covert death and that the government gives them money and that their incentivize too make something mark of doubt, that rumours rumours that he lends credibility to with his medical credentials in her the hospitals receive a bonus from the government. Think it's like three thousand bucks. If someone is hospitalized and able to be declared covert positive, they also receive a bonus. I think the total is something like thirty thousand incentive if somebody gets put on the vet

then they get a bonus if somebody is declared dead with carbon. So in this interview with our Rogan darkroom alone repeats some pretty wild conspiracy theories about covert treatments. So, are you saying- or you lying that perhaps one of the reasons why there are moving monocle, Annie buys is to enhance the amount of people that are sick. I'm saying it is in the spectrum of the range of possible just the same as the withholding of early treatments is inexplicable and just other like really wacky out their stuff and before this appearance under Rogan Show look doc from alone had kind of a fringe following, but after going Anja Rogan, he really gets exposed to this huge national audience, regular talking about ten million or so listeners. Well, Robert. Thank you very much.

Just thank you for everything, and I hope this hope this helps We established that Rogan is not a journalist private that. He sees himself as a curious conversationalist, but it is his rationale for having this kind of conversation and giving a platform to this kind of person. in such open defiance of public Healthcare as in the middle of a public health crisis, a deadly public health crisis. Will what Cha Rogan would say about this and what he did is that he was just basically doing what he always too slight bringing on to challenge the mainstream orthodoxy and he saw we're alone, as someone legitimate and expert with his own view on the topic and he wanted to have him here amount but to Rogan also has his own views about cover the vaccine I mean you're Rogan, actually got covet last year and treated it with ever met in and doesn't appear to have gotten vaccinated.

and, as the pandemic Oran, he started expressing a lot more. Our scepticism about the efficacy of covert vaccines. So this isn't really just a just skin questions situation by having Doktor Malone on his show and also by his own statements. Jurgen is expressing his own scepticism and doubts about the vaccines and what is the response to this interview? This interview causes a big blow back. As you can imagine, a lot of people are extremely mad that one of the most popular broadcasters in the country is giving a platform to these extreme fringe anti vaccine views, especially when thousands of mostly on it needed. People are still dying every day and public health

shows a lot of them here about this interview. Listen to it and really see it as quite dangerous. More than two hundred fifty scientists, doctors, nurses and researchers wrote a letter to spot of five about the misinformation on covert vaccines in the pandemic, spread on Joe Rogue inspired cast a group of about two hundred and fifty public health officials. Actually rights, an open letter to Spotify of a group, one Spotify to take action against Romans. Wrong information by developing amiss information policy in this letter gets a lot of attention from the media. and also get the attention of the musician, Neil Young and now to an upheaval in music, streaming, legendary singer and new Young gets very often

by this and Neil Young threatened to pull his music from Spotify saying they can have Rogan or young. Not both his response is basically that he says to spot. If I, u have to pull down all of my music off your service and for anyone who understands spot a phased business, serve where their priorities lie. It's a pretty obvious choice like Neil Young is an important artist. Lots of people love him, but compared to Joe in whose bringing in millions and millions of people every time he puts out podcast Neil Young is kind of a nobody Do you go on Spotify this morning? You won't find of NEO younger music, so they choose working right, but it doesn't stop with NEO young. A few days later, another canadian legend Jody Mitchell, followed suit. Johnny Mitchell says: Spotify should take time

music. Personally, those very devastating to me. I've been going a big is one day couldn't get it. what is right response to that too, suddenly Spotify has a pr crisis in his hands and its first response is basically to just say, like look. We are a neutral platform. We dont endorse the stuff that appears on our platform. It doesn't mean we agree with it. They say you know. Look we have plenty of wrappers who have, their music on Spotify, who have all kinds of offensive things in their lyrics, and we let them stay on the platform and that's, because we are not going to be a sensor or an arbiter of what you can say what you can write Of course, this is a very familiar position for companies. Can we talked about

He spoke making a similar claim when it is criticized for the content on its platform. It says more platform, we're not a publisher, but is that really the case with Spotify and trusting when it comes to Joe organ or for? a lot of people. It is the case with Spotify Mean Spotify does have millions and millions of artists and pod castors on it and there's a reasonable claim that it should be neutral when it comes to the contents of those songs and podcast. But it's real different with European Rogan, because not only is Spotify the exclusive distributor of his show, but it's him an extraordinary sum of money for the right to distribute that show it has gotten into business with him. They are not neutral when it comes to Joe Rogan and eventually the streaming service Spotify has promised to take action to combat covered nineteen

information. The ceo of Spotify Daniel Lack releases, a statement where he basically says: look we're not going to deploy forms Rogan. We are going to continue in his show the company's Thou said it will add advisory warnings. The pie casts that discuss covered nineteen and the union is going to quit warning labels on podcast about covert nineteen we're going to pay. I wish our internal guidelines for moderating Covin nineteen misinformation and then how low friends, Joe Rogan himself comes out with a stick and he releases this Instagram video. I wanted to make a video to address some of the controversy. That's been going on over the past few days. Basically, apologizing or half apologizing putty mean well, it serve interesting. So in this video

he kind of does what he always does. I do not know if they're right, I dont know because I'm not a doktor. I M not a scientist, I'm just a person's sit down and talk to people in those conversations with them. Do I get things wrong? Absolutely I get things wrong, but I try to correct them. I'm not a journalist, I'm just a guy I'm just asking questions. No one should rely on me for medical advice, but he also acknowledges that the approach that he's had for a long time, this kind of open, ended, can't just asking questions format where you don't really challenge people like. Maybe he needs to change that. I dont know what else I can do differently. Other then maybe try harder to get me who, with differing opinions on right afterwards, I do think that that's important and and do my best to

make sure that I've research, these topics, though the controversial ones in particular, and have all the pertinent facts at hand before discussed them. He talks about, may be preparing more for his interviews. be doing a load. It more fact checking maybe having more mainstream guests on his show, who disagree with the guests that previously came on his show. Our much loves you all thank you to everyone and I'm gonna do best. So his messages, I'm willing to change right and that might have been the end of it. Then the controversy really escalates a few days later, when I want to leave a short message here about why I decided to ask: might easily be pulled off a butterfly, India Array, the singer posts of it.

Online saying that she is taking her music off Spotify. I emphasised that the people were leaning with a covert this information reasons, and I think that they should not because of covert nineteen misinformation, but because there is, compilation going around of instances on his pipe cas, in which two Rogan has said the inward, and this is why why This is an old saying. The word I already said he is just like she's colleagues like this boy that he's in MR usually in the context of describing other people saying the inward, but actually saying it loud on a shelf and the process crossing a line that too many is entirely unacceptable. Yeah, it's a really shocking

thing to hear someone say over and over again in that format, no matter what the context is, and it becomes this really big deal hello friends Two Rogan actually releases another video, I'm making this video to talk about the most regretful and shameful thing that I've ever had a talk about publicly there's a video, that's a much worse. Amber video in which he's really straightforwardly apologizing for using this word. My hope is that that this can be a teachable for anybody that done realize how offensive that were. can be come out of the persons mouth in context or out of context and after that, hold down a number of episodes from his archive. Spotify, presumably because he's not proud of what's on them, hopefully

At least some of you will accept this and understand where I'm coming from my up so given at this point in a span of what, as I recall, is about a weaker so to Rogan and his freewheeling show how come under fire for the way he talks about two of the most sensitive subjects in american life today: race and the pandemic right and the outrage isn't just outsides by the five Spotify his own employees? Many of them are outraged about this. They are confronting Daniel. Accuracy, YO and saying you know. Why are we paying this guy millions and millions of dollars to distributors show. Why are we in business with someone like this. This is against our values and what we stand for as a company and yet Spotify does not back down. It says sticking by Jo Rogan. It does say that it's going to

locate a hundred million dollars to audio programming from under represented minorities, but Joe Rogan is going to stay on the platform. I'm shook Kevin by the fact that so far, this story is not unfolding in the way so many of these situations have unfolded over the past eighteen months or so, which is that a prominent media personality is found to have done something in some cases. Many things that deeply offend a group of people and pressure mounts for their employer to take action and that action in most cases is to part ways without person or put them on ice. That's not what's happened here and why? Why does this one seemed to be going differently, while I would

caviar and there, which is that it's going differently so far. This is still ongoing. Things could change. We could looking at a very different picture a week or two from now, but I agree that so far this is not going the way of a typical content moderation, scandal- and I think a lot of that at base- is about money and power and leverage you know Joe Rogan is a very important person to defies business. He brings in a huge amount of money for them and a huge number of listeners inside the Spotify up. If you go to the podcast section for a long time, he had his own category like it was like news sports culture, Joe Rogan, like he was that important to them and that's very different from say, a platform like Youtube where

If they take down one creator, even a very popular one for violating the rules, that's not really gonna make a dent in Youtube's, overall business, no single person is that important to them, but Joe Rogan is extremely important to spot. If I and its pod casting ambitions, but is also about spot, if I kind of tat a stand for its own neutrality, saying like we don't want to be an ideological media, company or company that picks and chooses who we support and who we don't. We want to have the most popular music. an audio content in the world on our platform, and that includes Joe Rogan. This guy with eleven million listeners per episode, they're saying basically

what he's doing is not beyond the pale and he's important enough to our business that we feel like it's worth, sticking by him. So you're saying that at this point for Spotify Joe Rogan is kind of council proof. Yeah does look like that for now and I think it's not just Spotify in their reliance on him for their business ambitions. That kind of makes him hard to cancel its also just this persona that he's cultivated this guy who's, just willing to say what no one else will say. Who will step on the third rails of our culture and poke at the most sensitive parts of american life? Who is fraid to offend people or say the unwelcome thing. That's the personality that he's. Debated and that's why

There are millions of people who tune into his show like they don't want him to follow the prevailing orthodoxy. They think the culture is already too restrictive and censorious. They want more dissenting views, not fewer, even when it comes to something as serious as a pandemic. You know- maybe for good reason, they are finding those contrary and voices in the mainstream media. While this is perfect, I find so fascinating about this story, cabin because Joe Rogan is literally the most listen to part cast in the world. It pains me to say it, but we're second and it's not even close, and so in some ways. It's funny to talk about him, is at odds with the mainstream media. How can you any more mainstream there? eleven million listeners per episode and what

A million dollar deals with the huge audio company right, I mean that's kind of the fundamental paradox of european is that you know he is a man. really popular extremely wealthy mega celebrity with one of the biggest audiences world, and yet he positions himself as kind this normal guy outsider. Who is punching up at the establishment and that's why I actually dont think this phrase. We keep talking mainstream media is actually all that useful because in reality there are kind of two versions of them For me, the other is the one that you know. We all sort of use, a shorthand which is like the corporate lay. See media, which has you know yes, standards. Fact checking processes and tried to synthesis,

the best information from experts and get it out there in a responsible way, and then there is this kind of new means dream. This emerging mainstream, which is made up of people Joe Rogan extremely popular contrary and voices who have kind of built their reputation by going against establishment by questioning the experts by allowing a much wider range of views, and now you have in the middle of all this Spotify. If has to essentially choose which means dream they want to cater to end. The question, basically, is whether a company like Spotify can do a platform to this rising, contrary and mainstream, while also adhering to the standards of the old mainstream

Spotify and your Rogan are both kind of testing. The theory that maybe you can, but so far we haven't really seen a lot of successful examples of that, usually people and of choosing one main stream or the other. So it's actually not clear whether this will work or even whether it can work given. Thank you very much. Thank you

All the way back. This podcast is supported by the high stakes new season of billions on Showtime, as my prince takes its place on the axe, capital thrown he's determined to shake up the game for chuck roads. New money means no mercy and he's got prince in his crosshairs, as alliances shift enforces rally only one things for certain wealth means war, starring, Podgy, Ahmadi, Corey stole a Maggie Seth catch. The news, season of billions now streaming only on Showtime. What else you need tenor day? The times reports that the House commit, investigating the January. Six assault on the capital has discovered gaps in the official Whitehouse Telephone logs involving former president Trump members of the committee have found few record

of course, from tromp, even when they know he was making such cops. Those gaps are making it difficult for the committee to accomplish a key goal to reconstruct What tromp was doing at crucial moments, as the attack unfolded in New York City is expected to fire up to three thousand workers today for refusing get vaccinated against the corona virus that represents less than one percent. Of the city's labour force, but appears to be the largest set of lay off in the country tide. a vaccine mandate to these episode was produced by Sidney We shall bonds, Chelsea, Daniel Linsey Garrison, an era crocky it was edited by Michael Ban was an engineer.

By Chris would original music by damn power and Marion Lozano. Our theme, music, is by Jim Braun, Burg and then lands of wonder that's it for the daily, I'm like all by sea when Monday the momentum of Dana farmers. Cancer discoveries has been nothing short of revolutionary. Take the Nobel Prize winning discovery by Doktor, William Kalen. It shows how cancer grows by hijacking the bodies, oxygen, sensing system, which lead to a new class of oxygen regulating drugs and the Nobel Prize Doktor Kalen discovery has been applied to kidney cancer and is influencing new therapies for other cancers, learn more Dana harbour, DOT, org slashed stories,