President Trump has called for an overhaul of immigration that replaces a family-based system with a merit-based one. But what counts as merit? We also report on the shooting at a high school in Parkland, Fla., in which at least 17 people died. It was the 18th school shooting in the United States this year. Guests: Caitlin Dickerson, a national immigration reporter for The New York Times; Catherine Porter, Canada bureau chief for The Times. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From the New York Times are Barbara. This is
today, president
is calling for an overhaul of the: U S: immigration, to replace family based migration with merit.
Migration, but what counts as Mary Ann.
The school sending in Florida
it's Thursday February. Fifty, it's not Wednesday morning of the week, the shot to debate darker borders,
yearning interior enforcement and other immigration issues. Killin, what's been going on in this house this week
the Senate, has taken this really unusual step of engaging in a kind of unmitigated
hashing out of all things. Immigration, Caitlin Dickerson covers immigration for the times,
That's because, in order to convince Democrats to reopen the government last month, much Mcconnell agreed to an open debate. So that's what they're doing a promised. I would clear the way to debate these matters is wake up.
Must. I would ensure a fairer amendment process in which both sides could offer legislation for discussion and votes, and everyone should be focused on finding a bill to protect the dreamers and address border security that can get sixty votes
That's the ballgame! My goal is to build a new immigration policy from scratch, so something that deals with dreamers, but also, if the Republicans get their way.
This- would involve a lot more than that. It could in fact overhaul our entire immigration system illegal immigration systems. What exactly in? What would that mean? The change that Republicans are envisioning of our legal immigration system, while the biggest thing that
means is a shift away from the core of our current immigration system, which is family based acceptance. Family ties
right now we allow about a million people into the country every year and about eight hundred thousand of them or two slash three are allowed in based on who they're related to that's really. What makes up the bulk of who we allow into the country
and the idea that Republicans are hoping to sell Democrats on is to really women, if not totally get rid of these
is that are based on family ties and to focus instead on employment skills on education and on factors that they believe are going to clearly
benefit the american economy. We will have so many more benefits. It will save countless dollars, raise workers, wages and help struggling families, including immigrant families, enter the middle class, and they will do it quickly and they will be
very, very happy indeed. So how does this system of family based migration has actually work
so the system allows people to petition to bring family members into the country, specific types of family members, so young,
children, but also, in some cases, adult children who are married, siblings and parents, but it's not as if you just apply,
and anybody who falls into one of those categories is assured in the sponsor has to prove that
make a certain amount of money so that this person who is coming into the United States is going to be supported that they're not going to be a drag on the economy, and then each of those categories is subject to limit. So just because again you qualify as somebody who's family member has enough money.
And as a sibling or a child of an american citizen. You also
have to wait in line and in many cases those lines are years and years long and they can even be decades long, so
It sounds like you're saying there are limitations on this: it's not an open door system to family, but in essence this is a system.
Built around the idea that eventually, you can have a lot of your family. Maybe even most of your family join you in.
Yeah absolutely- and you know, people have looked back at three
for generations and seen a single emigrant bring in more than a hundred people, and- and this may be responsible for the name that present Trump likes to use, to describe this system which controversial
migration. Ten migration, exactly Jean migration migration migrate, ending Jane migration,
how comment is this system you're describing around the world outside the United States?
It's not common at all. I mean lots of other countries. They do allow some people based on family ties, but even in places that do the american deafened
mission of family is much broader than it is elsewhere in the world. Other countries dont consider an adult child. Now,
thoroughly and eligible family member or a sibling ineligible, family member? So we are the most generous country when it comes to family based immigration to why do we,
Do it this way? Why would our immigration policy, based on anything other than, what's theoretically best for our economy, less law that we will find a day, if not a revolutionary, where it does not affect the lives of millions? Yet it is still one of the most important aspects of this Congress.
And of this administration. What's interesting is that wind family based immigration was introduced in nineteen sixty five, it comes along with a sort of support
rising goal in mind, which is to keep the United States primarily white, primarily european,
This measure that we all signed today will really make us prefer to ourselves as a country and as if it will strengthen
and I andred unseen way before that. We had quotas that were based on
We have origin under that system. The ability of new emigrants to come to a mark depended upon the country of their birth,
and those were then considered during the nineteen sixty civil rights movement to be racist man of needed still empower or denied, because they came from shudder. Our eastern Europe are from one of the development, and so we moved away from a quota system and yet created another system that was intended to maintain the racial make up of the country. The demographic make up of the country, but of course, shortly after the immigration patterns shift, and we see a lot more people coming to the United States from basically everywhere, except to Europe, and so you know as a result, this policy starts to really propel dramatic change in terms of demographics in the opposite direction that it was intended
when it was introduced. So this is really interesting killin. When the president made his now infamous shithole comment, he was talking about doing away with aspects of our immigration system that result in people from poorer countries or people without high and economic value. Coming to the. U S, and that's also, it sounds like what he's thinking about with a shift away from a family based system to America system, but it feels it
You're saying is that that's what the creators of the family based system wanted as well, when that system was created exactly it? Does the exact opposite of what the architects of the policy hoped for and
As a result, the country has become a lot more brown
so, with that in mind, would a merit based system? This thing the present from says he wants what it actually accomplish his stated goal of bringing immigrants with higher economic value. Then the family based system it would replace it could its appeal.
On? What the merit based system looks like, because all that means in general is that as a country,
You decide on factors that are important to you in terms of food
want to bring in you assign each of those factors some degree of weight, and then you used that sort of rubric to decide who gets a ticket in and who doesn't. But when President Trump talks about a merit based system he's being alone,
our specific than that he actually means fewer,
overall immigrants and then of that
smaller number of people we allow in a much larger proportion of them being people who have high skills. Doctors, engineers phds
Japan, oars more immigrants who can slide into the upper echelons of the american economy and of american society, and so if we think about his definition of merit based than yes, that will be the result. So we ve been discussing this kind of philosophical question of what immigration is for, and this seems to be
their philosophical question. What is merit and having high skills is just one way to think about it, but it sounds like that's how President Trump is thinking about merit that
right I mean, I think one thing that's actually getting lost in this debate is that there is research that shows that people who have family ties
actually fare better in the economy because they have a built in safety net. So if you
move to America and you have family members here. You have some one who you can stay
with. If you dont have anywhere to live, you have someone who can take you to the DE envy, who can show you how to file taxes,
might help you learn the language and understand the culture? So there is definitely an echo
MC argument that says people with family ties are actually going to do even better than somebody who's a phd or who
millions of dollars to contribute to the economy, but who doesn't have anybody to help them on a rainy day? No one things go wrong, so there's a case to be made that family based immigration, that having family ties when you're in immigrants arriving in the? U S is actually a priest shrunk form of merit, absolutely a strong case, and you know that something that could be incorporated into american system. We could offer points based on who has family ties just like with the diversity visa that we ve talked about. You know you could offer points for diversity is, are all things that could be incorporated into a merit based system in theory, but that's not what President Travis talking about doing would he proposes his version of merit based immigration system, so human we're we're talking about would be a massive overhaul of the? U S. Immigration system is this: actually on the table now
It is on the table and it looks like it's: gonna have to be on the table because on Wednesday President Trump came out and said that, if whatever bill the Senate comes up with, doesn't include this idea of Merit Bazin immigration that he'll veto. It he's really putting pressure on them to make this
bigger and broader than just a bill that looks at Dhaka and he is pushing them to try to come up with something that looks a lot more like what happens in countries like Canada, but here's the thing what President Trump has described as his ideal immigration system. It looks vastly
different than what actually happens in Canada, and it's not clear how the Senate is Goin to reconcile those two ideas.
Thank you count thanks. My mom
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presses wages for our poorest workers and puts great pressure on taxpayers nations around the world like Canada, Australia and many others. Have they merit based immigration?
system. Cabin present Trump has said two things about America based immigration system, one he wants high skilled workers to be the priority and to he sees Canada as a model. Is that how the canadian merit based system
Does it prioritize high skilled work? Yes, and no, it's actually quite a complicated system. Catherine Porter is the Canada Bureau chief for the times so
There are three streams immigrants to Canada, there's refugees about fourteen percent, there's the family reunification,
screamed similar to the American One and then as much as sixty percent. Is this merit based system and the system is super complicated? In fact, it's like, if you talk to people who teach it they'll tell you it's super, partly because it changes all the time but has been.
Nuclear point system where you get a certain amount of points based on your age, your education, your language skills, you take language, testing and
Sunday called adaptability. It's basically, you know the
dear- that you'll com and you'll hit the ground running in that's not just the federal government, but each province in Canada and terror
toy, also has their own system of breaking.
Megan Ragged, based on what skills they're looking for now on paper, it says that fifty eight percent of our system,
comes that way. People who are merit.
Really most of those people come with spouses and kids. So if you take
them out of that equation. It's really only a quarter of immigrants coming to Canada, who are picked specifically for their skills to it, sounds like the skills assets that are used to judge and immigrants are not always what we might think of his high skills,
higher education in the last surveys, show that in not just people who have I t, skills are getting in, but cooks like shorter curtains, people in the catering business so because each province and territory
there's thirteen promises and territories in Canada making this easier, but each of them gets to look at their
job market see where the holes are that they want to filter.
I also have a very large sailor, fifty percent of the say of which immigrants come in
so you know it's not necessarily only paid
these, although the more education you have the higher your points are under this marriage system
haven't. You know why Canada Bill their immigration system. This way
yeah, it's actually a really interesting story. So before the sixties, there was basically people tell you about a race.
Based system here at a very race, a system where they give preferential treatment to people
from white countries. They even have a book
quota on how many people from Sri Lanka, India were allowed in every year and in the sixties that old
stay. Wanted a system that was,
color blind that was based just on merit and they brought this new system in
gradually and by one thousand nine hundred and sixty seven. They put in like this point system to make sure, basically that you are
people based on math and not where they came from or what they looked like. So is interesting
has been being held up right now in the United States as this model, because with the debate and the states being so polarized round race right now in Canada, this was like an antidote to that. This was seen as something to treat
people fairly coming in and give everyone a fair shod will is also interesting, because we just heard from our colleague Kalen Dickerson that the? U S: system of family based migration,
was also a response to what was seen as a racist immigration system in the sixties. So these two countries responded to the same problem in two very different ways.
So is this merit based system that Canada came up with? Is it working in Canada? Do people like it yeah super popular?
like immigration and Canada, is still seen as a nation. Building, everyone sees it
The way that we grow our economy and makes us more competitive yeah, it's really, I would say, like an essential part of
they can identity of being multiculturalism is, is immigration? Part of that is cared
a lot of emigrants like they bring in point. Eight percent of the population
every year and at this point more than twenty percent of the whole canadian population are immigrants so
the star real embraces the idea
that immigration is something that is good, and I think the merit based system is a special sauce into that. It does really promote the eye
yeah that we're getting the best p
from around the world coming to Canada, and not just that they're so lucky to come to Canada, Canada lucky to have them be here. So that sounds like a case for this version of merit, based immigration,
but why? If president trumps, cool in moving to a mere based system is to limit the number of immigrants coming in and to prioritize the highest
killed. Why is he pointing to Canada as the model, its ahead, scratching
many people in Canada. I gotta tell you caused them,
oh here is about
bringing in lots of people it's based on an idea that immigration is really good for the country that it brings and talent and
hills and fresh blood, fresh ideas that it builds the country up, whereas what the president in the states seem to be saying is he
once you were immigrants which is completely contrary to the canadian experience
Thank you very much. Thank you. My vote on Wednesday afternoon abroad
by partisan group of senators announced they had read,
an agreement on an immigration plan that is narrower than the one called for by president tromp. The compromise legislation would boost for
security and resolve the fate of the dreamers offering them a path to citizens. But
would not address family based migration. Or
visa lottery programme, but the prince
its insistence on his hard line plan,
calls into question whether any compromise legislation can make
he passed his desk
What happened was the fire alarm went off, so everybody was go outside like a regular, fired you and then Senator lied to gunshots. Then I just see a whole bunch of people start running my direction. Then all the administrators and teachers just told us to start running, so I was just running wherever it I'll just find the crowd
on Wednesday afternoon in Parkland Florida
about an hour. North of Miami
gunmen walked into a high school, with a semi automatic rifle and killed at least seventeen people.
I thought it was just someone poured the fire alarm and then I actually got scared like there's. Access, shooter and people are actually dying. Pull
have arrested a nineteen year old. Former student at the school, who recently was expelled and who was known to carry guns
they have yet to describe a motive for the shooting. It was the eighteenth school shooting in the? U S so far this year on
Wednesday evening, Brower COM
sheriff Scott Israel held a news conference knew at school
this incident maiden truly makes me sick to my stomach gets its it's horrible is catastrophic
that's it? I'm Michael by Sea,
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Transcript generated on 2020-07-16.