From the New York Times. I'm Michael Barbara. This is tat, it hurt. Closure of classified documents from the war in Iraq and Afghanistan ushered in the age of leaks Now Chelsea man has been freed from prison and about why she did it and everything that followed its Tuesday June thirteenth. Yeah we met in New York and for the time that Chelsea was in New York. Staying in an apartment overlooking the Hudson River

share recently interviewed Chelsea Manning for the Times magazine and the view is almost confined only to water, and I remember that one of the first things it Chelsea said to me in the apartment was that her first night there she just sat at the window and stared out and thought about where she come from, and what as strange trip it had been because she is, zoomed that she would never be getting out of prison so to come from Burnett physical and emotional place to being in this, box in the sky in Manhattan, was see a little unnerving for, but I think He took solace in a too I mean she set up her Xbox shoes playing Forza, which is a car driving video game. She had the pizza and the fridge, and she had

had she'd set up near the doors and unplugged microwave and unused microwave and everyone who came in through all their devices into the microwave, so the ray I so. The there's a fairytale cage. It's called inside the microwave, the blocks, radio waves and fur probably good reason. Chelsea has been extremely worried about being tracked about having her phone and an internet, an email trap by hackers. So when you walk into her apartment, she had two. She ask you to put your yourself on in this. My group ass. She opened the door and said o k, gonna put it in you to put them. I'm gonna play your laptop and anywhere phone, but then the that was so full of devices that I had to put it in the kitchen microwave my computer, which was still plugged in and put my phone and there as well. It was surreal, I mean it, it really was

Matt. I think most of us, no two things about Chelsea Manning. The first is that many people view her as a trader, our president included. The second is that she entered prison as Bradley Manning and left as Chelsea Manning. What does she make of the public story of herself, So I think that there is this sense that Chelsea feels that her narrative that her story was a very public story and has been grappled over by many different people in many different settings, but that her voice has been missing from it which is true. So I think, although there is a sensitive of I didn't see the really engage with this head and she does want her side of the story out there. Let's talk about her story. Take us back to the beginning to her

so she comes from a town in Oklahoma called Crescent. Her father was conservative. Her mother stayed home at the kids, you know there Mr and she knew from an early age, even if she wasn't able to describe it because she didn't yet have the vocabulary that she didn't fit in with the other kids in the neighborhood she described to me, Wearing your sisters, clothes trying on her sisters, making up asking her dad what was stopping her from playing with other girls instead of play, with other boys, and what did he say? Well, his answer was were physically different, the he's the plumbing line. I think he actually used the word plumbing according to Chelsea? He said boys are boys and girls are girls, and you live with the body that your game

when, when she's in grade school, essentially she comes out as gay. You know it's just a disaster, for it was endless teasing at school, and so she tries to take it back and she can't take it back in the harassed continues and she it describes this feeling of just isolation. This this share. Isolation from the world that that she was in It wasn't until she was even in the military that she could really give a voice to what was happening to her. So what would lead a person who went through bad to enlist in very masculine cultured military yeah. Well, I was a lot of different reasons, but I think the underlying reason is that she hoped pretty tragically in retrospect, the good man her up in government in Palestine.

It will make you more of a man, will have more structure or you'll have more Maybe it is all these things I was telling me for all these years, something to me. And then there is an amazing amount of suppression that was happening all her life after I, after Years and years of this of him telling me this, I have I've always kind of felt like a disappointment to him, because I didn't count and they didn't meet his expectations. I didn't become the man that you expected me to be try to keep a secret has tried to push some fact about their lives inside them knows how explosive that can be in and how hard

and yellow chinless did her father had been in the military underlying all of it was this idea that, if I do this, maybe I won't maybe I'll stop thinking that I'm a woman and then she deploys too. Iraq at the end of two thousand nine and when she was deployed what will actually doing in those early days in a motor, trained as an intelligence analyst, so she gets to Iraq and and she goes into a secure facility and she sits in front of our computers and four hundred and ten our stretches she's. Looking at raw intelligence and how do we get to the version of Chelsea Manning who is leaking the material that's coming across her scream. So.

In in a lot of the material that has come out so far about her case, is often described in terms of opinions, and I think that there is some of that, but I think it was also pretty gradual course gradual, be exposed things over a long of time, I thought I came into it. Thinking things would be black and white and they weren't, and what's to happen when she's in Iraq is some of it is first hand. Some of it is flying over these areas. That she'd only seen in video footage when there was all this right kids. What whew over never seen imagery of four nine or ten months prior Why and some of it is seeing reports from the field that depict a war. That starts to feel a little

feudal, I knew the last day so well from the air arriving irony. I read between seventy and detailed reports. First, they unchecked answered why I start seeing I fancy record's astern. She starts to think. Ok, look. Maybe people need to know about this. She had to say strong, narrowly. Sky level view of the conflict in Iraq and in her thinking she thought, look up I'll it'll change. If people can see some of this, and so how does this actually work? the information she seeing this kind of sky high view of at all. How does she actually Yet it out to the world: what did she do in February, two thousand ten. She has a leave, and so read before she leaves to go home.

She downloads a huge library of files, and then she uploads that to the personal computer, that she's Having on taking home with her? At that point, she had not made a decision to do too weak the documents, but she had them in her fashion? So she goes home and then, as far as in her telling this is the closest than she did come to an epiphany. She goes home, she's riding around the Metro DC area where she was living at the time. I was so glad my neighbours or was it there was disappointing about Billy. I didn't see my hand while they were busy. Just a subway I felt like I was living in fighting

living, breathing this war and, unlike it, wasn't on their minds. I felt like I was in a foreign country. The first time in my life. And so sheer. Initially this tries to approach various newspapers. She tried the post, she tried the New York Times and she tried political dark all. What was it that you wanted to tell these people I mean not specific, not what the information was. What was it that you wanted them to know in a bigger sense that there are two worlds: the World in America, and then there was the world but at that time this is Pre Snowden she says, look

No one had the technology to be able to allow me to securely upload these documents cuz she doesn't want to be caught in so eventually she she knew about Wikileaks and she said, okay to bid. This site is set up to do this secure LISA before she leaves the DC area to go home. She uploads all the significant actions from Iraq and Afghanistan to Wikileaks, and then she flies back to Iraq, and to remind us what it is in the leak, how big is it an what's the range of a files? It is hundreds of thousands files no manning isn't is known for two different types of leaks she has war logs, as they were later called from Iraq and Afghanistan. And then she had the diplomatic files which were state department, classified data from around the world and.

It portrayed the war to a degree that had never been portrayed before, when, at the time he looked back, any journalists were added in the Middle EAST stand. There were store of the official version of the war, but this was everything right. This was. To the smallest firefight, and it really There remains astonishing and complicated what. She ended up leaking- was the largest library of classified military documents in history, and I think, since there has been nothing larger at this point she's still Bradley Manning tailored to the world. So, Is she sitting in the mill

Terry now, essentially with to massive secrets in her life yeah to a degree that, even when I was interviewing her about it about this period in her life felt, I felt the anxiety she at this point now had settled the fact that she was a woman that she knew she was transgender, but she was in a military that did not accept the idea of Trans gender people, so she's trying to hold that an and at the same time, she's holding in the fact that she has provided all these documents to Wikileaks and they had not yet wisdom for your conversations with her about this. Did one of these secrets in some ways influence maybe even motivate the other.

Exactly duties to secrets intersect. It's the million dollar question and I think that they do intersect. I dont think their separate. I think that part of what was happening was she was in psychological distress at the time in her a pellet brief, which was filed many years later in two thousand six in her lawyers, make this point. They say in a look if she had had the help that she needed and then they imply in a maybe this may not have happened, and I asked her about this because it's a question

The Mai editor had wanted to know the answer to, and I've been thinking about, a non stop or ask your difficult question, and you may now an answer, but the air and the appeal events in Nancy prepared. They make this kind of implicit argument that if you had had the Euro deprived help, which you obviously were and counselling and that you were not And you should have been getting it, but if you had got how things may not have played out the way that they did not spent, what I can tell you is that my guys, we care about how I will, if you read between the lines, little bird tat seems to indicate that she's feels like

he would have done it, no matter what that the psychological distress didn't play a role in it. I think they intersect in a lot of ways, but I do think they are essentially separate struggles that she was experiencing at the exact same time to sort of disastrous personal effect. Which one of you can say or have surmise from your conversation somewhere which one of these wade more heavily, are her gender identity. I mean, I think, that the right before her ass? She was having conversations with the a hacker named Adrian Lama, who eventually turned her and that's how she got arrested. And you read back through those chat and she was sort of defiant about the leaks themselves. At least then she she could discuss it, but there her transgender identity was something that nobody knew about.

After the break, Chelsea Manning's arrest, we'll be right back. America's biopharmaceutical companies have one very important thing in common: a common enemy they're, making great progress because their collaborating in ways they ve never done before. In a matter of weeks, they progressed from potential treatments for cover nineteen to Anna bodies and antivirals that have shown positive results to several promising vaccine candidates, get the latest updates at Ph Rna Dot, Org Slash corona virus, because science is how we get back to nor Matt take us through what happens next she's caught bright and then she's arrested, so what happens so she's cod

in the spring of two thousand tan she's arrested and taken immediately to a military installation in Kuwait, where she's put what amounts to solitary confinement. They kept me in what was essentially a cage things. Steel cage beds, toilet, I guess I'll, just being still cage and tat. So didn't like the dust from Kuwait, Sabinian, clean Tell from where I was going to say, Lauren in the in the tenth weather was day or night. At the same time, this is happening. News comes out of her arrest

Some information that she published had immediately become public. The infamous helicopter video one which was taken from the cockpit of an american Apache in an incident were civilians were killed all around and she had like that and that had been published by Wikileaks and they done some other smaller documents. The diplomatic cables and the warlords are not published until after she's arrested so. She, I didn't remember our yeah, so she goes and she goes to Kuwait. She Totally isolated from the world has no idea what's going on. No one will tell her, I had no idea what was going on. I had no idea anybody knew I was there. I have no idea, We know that can't be right. There

it was a certain point where I was like. I've been forgotten about MAGIC spear and meanwhile the chat logs or published, which are the conversations that she had with this hacker Adrian Lama. Those sort of serve as the inspiration for these writers at the guardian, the London newspaper to reach out to assign and say well in these chats Manning mentions all these other documents that she took are those gonna get published and so later in two thousand ten Assange, the guardian, the New York Times, their Spiegel in Germany work out an agreement where they start to publish the afghan war logs and those start to make it out into the public. In the past month, more than seventy five thousand afghan warlords will eat. Officials called at one of the biggest security breaches in: U S, military,

three but she's, Captain lock up, she was from Kuwait Quantico and she spends essentially a year at Quantico in conditions that have been likened to torture. By a u N, investigate at any point in time will be able to see any negative news to do. I have any understanding of what is happening now in Vienna compartment. You know anywhere, I went like the tvs were off. There was nobody there every everywhere. I went to do hope that the information your information had gotten out there

I was mostly dealing with the day to day in survival. That point, I wasn't worried about. The rest of the world do spoke to her about the seven years that she spent in prison and that's a ton of time to reflect on what she did and why she did it. What does she say about what she did seven years ago now? I think her believes, to a certain extent, two thousand and ten. The same that they are now, which is that the moroccan government over classifies there's too much. That is not brought into the public sphere for argument and debate them. Too much of a war on leakers and whistle blowers. So there isn't gonna be a massive apology because she still does believe in what she did

but I think, as far as whether she spent all seven years thinking about her actions, I get the sense that wasn't the case, because she had different battles to fight. You know She knew tat. She was a woman and she was in a maximum security prison and she had to start transitioning as best she could so a lot of her energy and attention went to that lots of people still view what Manning did as as basic violation, of the law and of of the country. She put people's lives at risk. She put people's lives, a risk, and she, I think, understands that. But her argument would be that it was more important to bring attention to these issues. Then anything ass, it seems like there are.

Still to narratives. Here, one is about an action that was taken. One is about an identity that changed. How does she now see herself within those two narratives. I think that she understands hence the role that she's had in the Trans community. Better in some ways than she understands her role as a whistle blower. I think that The letters in the communications that she had in the outside world for the past, let's say four or five years as she started or transition were mostly about the Trans Community and were mostly from people who wanted to talk to her about.

Or to make her of that movement. How many do you think you're about to fire an interesting question, because you know ass, she becomes a public figure which one is she going to be. I mean, can she be both, and I don't have the answer to that? I don't think she has the answer to that, but I'll be curious to see happens over the next few years? That thank you very much. Thank you. Tell me that what's next, you think you do see my family again see my niece Matthew,

There are more miles away from my knees no matter what I'm just going to be, who I am and I'm okay with that I am now here Here's what else you need to know today! Well, I think, he's considering perhaps terminating the special council. I think he's he's wearing that option. A close friend of as an trumps says? Trump is considering firing, Robert Mother, the special council recently appointed by the trumpet, reason to oversee the investigation into russian meddling in the election. The White House said the friend

servitude, media executive, Chris Ruddy quote, speaks for himself, but. Not dispute his account and Zephyrs cabinet meeting with the entire present president Trump card, his cabinet, together on Tuesday, for an unusual public meeting. I will say that never has there been a president with few exceptions hastened after I made depression, whose past legislation whose done more He then went around the room asking for a statement from each cabinet member, starting with the vice President president. British privilege my life. Vice president, present misgivings worthy people assembly. That's bringing real change one by one. My hats off you ve, taken a stand. A clear message round world. They paid tribute to the press in what the Times reports was an attack

to boost his mood and she this subject from investigations into russian ties to the rest of his agenda. Map of the entire senior staff surrounding. Mr President, we thank you for the opportunity and the blessing that you've given us to serve your agenda and him That's pretty Michael, whether suitable support for the daily comes from tee in tee, presenting the alien is angel of darkness. The all new season of the acclaimed Emmy Award winning television series at the turn of the twentieth century, uncover a dark and sinister trail of death and deceit as an intrepid team of crime. Solvers reunite to hunt and elusive killer Daniel Brutal Luke, Evans and Dakota Fanning STAR in the aliens angel of darkness, the

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