From your times, unlike Obama today two years ago he called Donald Trump, a cook, a big creese and unfit for office. Now he lavishes praise on operating at return. What happened to Lindsey Grand it's Tuesday March? I mean you, don't even know which way the wind is blowing with sky. You just ass, I'm

but the actual about Linsey, grandpa and who is not here. I don't know what happened to the Lindsey, Graham, that I knew because he s invention went up lately. He seems to be a grim. Morally and politically, it is, I think it's mystifying to a lot of people would certainly defined Dumay what happened to Lindsey grandees. What's happened to Lindsey Gram, what happened when scrambling? What happened to Lindsey ground the thing about, The grammars is he's one of these figures in Washington that comes with kind of a non verbal reaction. At this point Mark Leibovitz wrote about RAM for the New York Times magazine, you mention his name. Any time over the last six months to twelve months and you get this combination. Grimace shrug, follow up question yeah,

what's going on and in all the sort of Trump era, republic and mysteries. When we ask ourselves what happened to this person, why is this person changing his or her mind? So much now about Donald Trump, Lindsey, Graham kind of is the signature. Mystery of the Trump era is far as what these conversions look like Lindsey Grand grew up in a very small town in South Carolina, the town of Central South Carolina in his parents owned a bar. There called the Sanitary CAFE and they own it, but they lived in an apartment right behind the bar, the shared a restroom with the patrons of the bar, and he went from there is the first member of his family to go to college. His parents died when. Was in his early twenties. He joined the military, eventually got into politics and then was elected to Congress and eventual was elected to the Senate, where over the years has become known as a kind of a reliable conservative, pretty partisan report

can I lay the groundwork for this through the Bush years Obama CARE from day one voting against Obama years he led them I dont, Benghazi, demanding he was, as someone who was a truth, teller within his carcass he's been champion for military veterans later for South Carolina job, he was seen so much like Mccain was as someone who you could have a conversation. You could you will all eyes are Linsey, Graham and another democratic member trying to come up with some sort of bipartisan compromise and really want a lot of by partisan respect. A lot of respect across the aisles took on some pretty unpopular issues within his carcass language. Eighty percent of the people like see these kids have a better life apes in the people. Light begin to fix a broken immigration system. Immigration we won't be debating about the science will be debating that the solution, climate change when he was a big deal maker. He to this day is remembered and remain

sort of a key words is very past tense. As someone who could speak some truth the power and someone who was seen as a reasonable, independent conservative. Let me too, That's ok and he also was like aside get kind of deal again to John Mccain's skipper. He would die for this country. I love him to death. He was always it inside the two of them heads similar sense of humour raising. Why Lindsey is married is because you can't find anyone who loves you and was always and very derivative the energy, the John Mccain brought to everything that John Mccain did so two thousand fifty I'm Linsey Grab and I'm Lindsey, Graham two thirds you gonna run for president lost, so never liked them as much after that cars. That's because I don't render the Gates Donald Trump insults, John Mccain without war here,

He's a war IRA. Yours is a war hero, presumes capture. I like people, weren't captured. Ok, I hate to tell you. It was, as you know, is John Mccain Europe. Donald from said? No he's not I like people who were captured, I dont need Appall, Battelle Donald Trump S, not good to say that John Mccain, a loser, bagasse was captured in a time of war. Linda grammars drama can best friend was extremely took great umbrage at this. At all, here a few drops out stay in the race to stop being a jackass called trump? I think it was a jackass. Can I called a jackass by this guy, then I said to myself: hey, didn't it

I call me like four years ago: yes, Donald Trump, then at a campaign event too. So I wrote the number down. I don't know if it's the right number, let's try a two hour to yell out Windsor grim cell phone number, which to my memory, has never been done before an american politics. Predictably, the crank calls the threats commenced immediately on the grand cellphone Anita Cook- arrogance, crazy, anagazanders, yet for office. So the fun thing happens: the relationship did not improve for the course of the campaign? Is a race baby, Zena, phobic, religious, big to say the least, and then even one Donald Trump was elected even when he became President Lindsey. Graham and John Mccain were still none too happy with the fact that Donald Trump was president, they kind of held their powder for a while. They were terribly vote. But there were certain occasions where Lindsey Gram was actually quite vocal and really wasn't trying to hide his feelings at all. After the Charlottesville demonstration,

and ultimately murder flower president in the United States and these people showed, the day toward me and my agenda, it would bother me- and I would urge the president to dissuade them other that that that he's sympathetic to their cars, Lindsey Ground was extremely outspoken about how the president should not have spoken out seemingly in favour of the White Nationalist Costa Cause is hate, it is an American, they are domestic terrorist and we more from our present on this issue and also about the summer later, when Donald Trump and President Putin had that joint press conference in Helsinki and the President's seem to side with Putin over the conclusion of his own intelligence that Russia meddled with the election of twenty sixty his misjudging hope. I don't think you as well as they should have been Linsey Grand, was not shy at all about speaking. This was a missed opportunity. We arrange

worse than narrative, that's bad for us as a nation. It came across weak, but then something weird I am like the happiest dude and we ve got a president and a national security team that I've been dreaming of freight years light. The president, I want to help him hope. He's successful, he's been a friend to make president tromp has to say art and the moral courage to listen to his generals. I am all in keep it up. Donald, I'm sure you're watching a president Trump deserves a Nobel Peace Prize, and then some you don't like me, working with President Trump to make the world a better place. I don't give a shit. So that's why people are asking what happened to Lindsey Graham- and I was asking myself I mean- I don't think there was a sharper pivot from vehement Lee Auntie Trump to

no enthusiastically pro trump, more so than Lindsey Grand within the Republican Party, so I decided that I would spend some time Lindsey Gram and see if I could ask him enough questions that maybe he could shed some. On this for me here. Where did you start your conversation with ground services that frequent start with this means, and I asked Lindsey how he was getting along without charge and Mister Mason. I mean I haven't seen him since John Mccain had passed away, which would have an August I still on occasion one pick up the phone call

so it was a relationship. There was like a political marriage and he said he was doing. Ok, he Missis Hamley thinks about him all the time. I love the ghastly lot being wrong. You do he kept himself raw from where he jumped immediately to how John Mccain made him feel, which was wasn't in Russia and the waste a relevant as you stay engaged, there's lots. Face you take on top issues, because most people shower from research Graham said, like John, I were relevant together I mean it was like we're. Sharing a meal together were sharing a value system together and that value system was relevance, and I was confused by the word. I said: what do you mean by that and it had relevant, is like in the middle of everything. Relevant is you're. Making it It means that the agenda time what you possess political influence and power use it

John Mccain, was always surrounded by an entourage. She was always surrounded by cameras. He was always surrounded by a sense that, because John Mccain was there something momentous was happening, and Lindsey Grand by virtue of residency in that orbit was able to reap that. Also, and so had his gram explain to you how his relationship tromp develops and how this evolution kind of lands with him having a relationship with them on top of respect. Religion. I heard a xenophobic in Britain. Did you mean that when you that's not what I had in both for those campaigns beautiful from general. Now good. You both mother for Evan, whatever the gas aim, as we know about in the dark, but do so, but I asked I mean the people have spoken. So ok,

Let's see how helpless gave me the browser, I think he knew intuitively. Would he needed to build a relationship with fairly quickly in part as political realities in South Carolina and the fact of his re election coming up in twenty twenty. I recall in so. He called me that six weeks after they said less talk, Donald Trump through Short circuit This is by calling him first he's as having fun said, there's a reason, because I d throw it out because you ruined in the ass, then data to the place of the office in the large envy talk for our really seem to care what I thought you and he said. I know, we've had our differences, but I'd like you to help me so I'll be glad to have you are here as brother. I want you to be successful professional, like we got together? We have little time this. That's what's changed,

when genuine and will be Sigmund. Freud he's got a tough job maybe that had a whole group of old friends, the gas president of the United States, the status common air at Mach, two and three. He feels completely under siege the more staff and he is trying to navigate all that things that come with me in the trough, but there's a sad to hear that appalling form they re before. What meaning, by giving a timeframe in the last year rule here for what actually happens.

Passed here between Windsor, Graham and present Trump. That explains us their spending a lot a time together. I've never been called as much by president in my life is. That would like is weird Ennis, flattering and and the time their spending together devotes Lindsey Grandma's castle. Further Trump agenda. The judges have been good their tasks deregulation hours work is rebuild the military junta. Perform, whether on repealing the affordable care act. That was both in twenty seventeen, but into twenty eighteen on foreign I hoping that weaken, some things

North Korea, that maybe we could have done at Windsor Grandma's, certainly ascended to the role of one of Donald Trump, two or three closest advisers on the hill. The backdrop to this, though, is the Lindsey Grams. Best friend John Mccain is going through a very, very public, difficult illness and Donald Trump, basically didn't let up at all. He was still criticising John Mccain for his vote against the affordable care act. Repeal of twenty seventeen, but also John Mccain through his office even through his illness, was not shy about criticising Donald Trump for things like Helsinki, Charlottesville and Donald Trump was not one to let this lie and was going to bash John Mccain right back. So you had this situation where Lindsey, Graham and the President are becoming very close in public for

and whereas John Mccain was dying, a very, very slow in and tragic, in public death. So I think people began to ask this question. What was going on within a gram in maybe a more personal framework, because John Mccain and he were known to be so close and John Mccain, obviously was very sick, and I wanted you ask gram about how Mccain felt about this developing relationship between Graham and drop, considering their past and Mccain's places I did hear he's president and I'll see you wasn't, actions over embrace people What are the most, you could go to Vietnam. Forgive me back you could work, whether by anyone and I stand as gas war. He so in a way,

Your reminding John Mccain of his own example, but also appealing to the eager to John Mccain, obviously had an in very hi measure, and do you know if Mccain essentially blessed this or said I understand Linsey, I'm the guy blasted. I think that's probably too strong, but I think John Mccain as well as anyone understands politics. Also look. He had other things to worry about. He was, I am, he was cured of getting his legacy and his affairs in order. He was not his best in the last year of his life when he was badly brain cancer and so forth cell lad. Advertise thinking insists that what happened with others, but here's the difference is war port. It and she's. Reset sold John Mccain passes way in August

and then just a few weeks later, you had a crescendo of the bread Cavanaugh hearings. I mean we all remember in a very very powerful day where there was a sense for about me now, maybe two thirds of the day that this cavern. I was in real trouble that Doctor Ford's story was extremely compelling. Then all of a sudden Republicans on a committee We are speaking in Wednesday. Graham gave this real show stopping speech. This is about unethical Shan. Since I've been in politics, you really wanted to know the truth. You sure, as Hell, what I've done, what you ve done to this guy, but the moment in a people thought you might have really change the momentum of this thing, boy, all power- God. I hope you never get it, right in which he has a sales, the democratic members of the committee for we being power hungry and our glorious and smearing and ruining brick cabinet life. Did you feel like

anyway, you had an audience in the White House, and we re thinking you were there was now appears to hear that there is a genuine just light of day about appeared. Ass was shares. Demonstrated I've had a very fix view about the law enacted reunited. Religion, because we can no longer appear. It was a very pitched and partisan setting. Obviously, I think the collateral damage there's what it did to his reputation across the aisle which has not been repaired yet, but in a sense that sort of played to some very, very strong suits that Linsey, Graham had beginning with being something that was delightful to the President of the United States and his base I lied about the president is it he has allowed me in the states.

And after cabinet has even been more. I can imagine he light a fire after the cabin irons. I think the question that everybody has on some low level about what happened to you It is now the question raw openly ask what happened to lend to grant. Did you actually pose question. Yes, I did you see a little sick and tired of idea. What's what was happening to Lindsey Grand question like she's like yellow, ok, nothing from our work. If you know anything about me out for me to know what is this the world will be travelling in a sense he uses. The notion of relevance is a catch all, but to what end. Because you're out the answer to the agenda,

that I want, but the uncharitable way of describing this would be opportunism. The charitable way of saying this would be influence and the fact is one of the central dynamics at Washington Circuit, two thousand and nineteen there for the Trump administration Never has the decision point been so wrapped up in the mercury illness of one single person, as it is right now in Donald Trump or and Linsey Gram has made himself a part of that orbit. Now it might not last beyond next week. It might not last beyond his re election, who knows where those gonna end Lindsey Grandpas, that question himself to me, but for now it seems to me it's very, very advantageous ran politically, but our linger on that word opportunism, because if you look at the chronology, one view, and perhaps the most cynical view is that Lindsey Gram in the name of relevance attached himself to the biggest star republican politics for a very long time, and that was senator

come again and then, when similar John Mccain declines and ultimately dies, Linsey Gram looks for the next big star to attach himself to when that happens, to be Donald Trump, and so, despite the fact that these two men disdain each other and represent very different sites, so, the Publican Party, the constant, is Lindsey Graham seeking out the star. It is aimed at one point I just sort of like blurted out. You trust him meaning for the president and it took him awhile answer you seem taken aback by that and what he said was by trust him to want to be successful, which, in our common, not answering would present doesn't want to be successful right I mean, I think, if I were to ask him to dress John Mccain, he would say I trust John Mccain, the love America into always do what is right for America and to always work for a cause greater than himself. I remember asking him a one point during Donald Trump believes in a cause greater than him

and he said something to the effect that will Donald Trump Shulman he's a larger than life figure. He wants to be successful. Look they're like people who say to get Lindsey, you know better. How can you live with yourself? What are you doing and he couches it in the virtue of luck? I believe very strongly in certain things around Syria around after stand around judges that it is their outcomes there, Not only appear working with the President get, some outcomes are really good for the country. Nothing from you, good for the world being relevant to Donald Trump being in his orbit, helps me influence the things that I think are good for our country and then a good free relay. I cynically and also good for Lindsey Grams reelection yeah, I mean you, don't want to get real leaped again around this sort of glibly said well,

I want to be re elected you're on the wrong business. I mean this question of what is going on. Lindsey Graham, is so present around him. It's come to define him so much but he felt completely at home. Even raising the question rhetorically on the stamp in South Carolina There was a republican lunch. We went to India, and will even where he was saying, was what happened to me and he said of twice: That was not a damn thing and people kind of like nodded knowingly. What he was doing was sort of owning the question. He would have taken it as a part of his political identity, but at the same time he was being defiant about it too, and he kept talking about how like look all the smart people in Washington. They hate us the people in the media. They hate us, you know they hate him him being Donald Trump. Essentially

an old populist refrain which, as they dont let they looked down on our way of life, literally the next day in his office in Washington, he was talking about how you showcase your issues. This is what you do in Europe. For reelection. He was, he was being. There is a need, not only one of the smart people. He was talking to me wiseguy wise guy, and he was essentially giving away the game as if, in his Senate office in Washington and a luncheon hall in Greenville, South Carolina were completely

different worlds that have nothing to do with each other, and it sounds like at the end of the day. He is being honest and offensive. Nothing did happen and he is the same again. Here's the thing. I was pretty struck by how honest how candid he was in talking about what his game was, what he was doing him explicitly saying you showcase your issues, meaning you say certain things when you're running for reelection. Essentially, tests are not yet certain audiences, he said facetiously, but not really facetiously. You recall that in twenty ten John Mccain turn himself into the most republic, the most conservative senator in the Senate when he was right for reelection and twenty ten. That was the reelection when John Mccain sort of try to dissociate himself with the term maverick when in fact, two years earlier, he had based an entire presidential campaign about being a maverick people at that point were asking what's going on with John Mccain, so I think innocence. He was pointing out the synergy between his hero eight years ago and what he was going through today, but again, that's a pretty

no transparent way of looking at in describing what is happening to someone when they are essentially doing political contortions. Linsey Graham, is one a good politician to someone who is fully aware of what the political reality is for him. As a conservative or somebody wants to be re elected in a very conservative state in a very conservative party, and is someone who knows very much how Washington works that he's up front about what this is? is and what it isn't and the degree to which this is and opportunistic transactional relationship. He would call politics mark. Thank you very much. I beg you make of great beauty, Thank you very very much. While I came to the right place for the weak, Lindsey grounds.

Look at the annual gathering of the conservative political action conference. Where He once again freeze president Trump and boasted about their close relations, and I couldn't be more proud of the fact that he talks to me. And it s my opinion and we ve got a lot in common. I like him and he likes it. Anna. DA the aid. How does your home impact your health

which all reality, help million suffering from loneliness, I'm science, journalist Korea's power and I'm culture, critic Kristen minds? Are we teamed up with Invest coke Youtube? You t brand at the New York Times to create innovation uncovered the world changing in real time, often in ways we can predict on innovation uncovered. We share stories about the groundbreaking people in technologies there reshaping our culture right now. Listen though, wherever you get your podcast in basque or distributors ink hears what else you need to know that on Monday, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee cheering ever,

requested records from more than eighty individuals and organisations connected to President Trump, as the committee launches a sweeping investigation into whether the president abused power and obstructed justice, the request were delivered to trumps business partners, White House staff and family members, including the president's two sides Eric and Donald Junior, and they touch everything from the president's payments of hush money to women to his financial dealings with Russia? At the White House on Monday, tromp was asked the new investigation, I cooperate all the time with everybody knows the times. Reports that waterway the chinese company developing five g cellular networks around the world is planning to sue the. U S, government for banning federal agencies!

from using accompanies technology. The ban is based on the trump administrations. Fear that waterway is a national security threat whose products could allow the chinese government to spy on and disrupt american communications networks in the last war way will argue that the twenty eighteen legislation that ours is technology within federal agencies violates the cost to set by singling out one organization for punishment without a trial that's it. I'm a comma signal. How does your home impact your health

Which all reality help million suffering from loneliness? I'm science, journalist Korea's Powell and I'm culture, critic Kristen minds: are we teamed up with invest, go cute? You q and T brand at the New York Times to create innovation uncovered the world, changing in real time, often in ways we can predict on innovation uncovered. We share stories about the groundbreaking people in technologies there reshaping our culture right now. Listen though wherever you get your podcast in basque or distributors ink