Welcome to the documentary from the BBC world service, where we report the world, however difficult the issue, however hard to reach costs from the BBC world service. I supported by advertising some years ago and adventurous young man gritty mining town in ukraine, ward off on an epic journey across the latin america journey in search of himself, YAP appeal was analysed and mother fickle I bought a motorbike in the centralism and set off first from mexico. I reached colombia, then ecuador and peru. I didn't think hotels. I live in hot weather the real strong motive was riding the tray

If he's lifelong hero, the international revolutionary ernesto che guevara operate, but using Julia crosby rule book, which here like him, I want to be a man with a capital. Am stream elusive, lacks to think big and his homeland. Ukraine wasn't big enough for him. His allegiance was to another country. longer exists. My original figure, you for you, you don't use of this, it should give us with my homeland, is the soviet union. I was bored and nineteen seventy six in that vast country that was like in one big fan, stream usos follows many esoteric causes he's had many brushes with the law. In normal times peacetime he probably have spent his whole life as a misfit, a minor troublemaker, but in ukraine this is wartime and was given stimulus of a chance to fulfill his fantasies. But in my heart,

Should I buy it now? Forty five, his once straggly had we shorn stem elusive, has become the public face of russia's occupation of concern, the only ukrainian regional capital, its captured since its invasion. In february ukraine's now wants to counter offensive aiming to retake the city, but the kremlin's determined to make cuts on part of russia, and this is the story of how it's trying to do that with the help of few eager collaborators right, curious, tremor elusive and many ordinary citizens forced into unbearable choices, users of loud labour, but either they have to betray their country than they can feed their family or they can be petrol and stop them. How much of that macho us right now! I need you to a wonderful started, people again expected of behaved like heroes and many others whom I commented on.

hate lakes, wine of cooks copy the star city, the before the war at about three hundred thousand people, a southern city on the great river, the bisect, ukraine, the negro strategically vital in the second world war, when the sun was written and again now guzzling suitably turns out. I love it. Yes, I didn't know that until I'd seen, half of europe This is a journalist, I'll call ox on a whose real name I can't give if she still family and those on the left others she fled and took refuge in the west. I have so much income for

made leisure sounds very comfortable city to leave in. There are lots of gardens of fits all of ukraine with its fruits and vegetables, fruits and vegetables. Grain nawaz sharif. in normal summers is best known, for watermelons histologist, someone's it'll, sunny sitting up in august and breezy. One lots of wind turbines watching the and the place was its own culture check. Her has given ukraine, many playwrights words and artists The city was founded in the eighteenth century, other general count. Gregory potemkin lover of empress, Catherine, the great she conquered. The vast plains stretches either side as a neutral, the dickey, a poker wild field, as it was known to hard right.

In the freedom, loving cossacks, customs main language is russian, but till recently for most people, language and politics were two separate things like him. He sonia bill of Sarah knocked on euros. Many people in her song didn't worry whether they were russian or ukrainian, when they got married they late, flowers by potemkin statue, but they really weren't thinking about russian expansion. Oil is arresting expands except, of course, for persons would be take a fire. Have you a lot better speaking the russian language, because my english is not very good. I'm calling cameo stem elusive. Now, deputy head of the russian backed

the military civilian administration of carson to try to discover what makes someone a traitor as most of his fellow countrymen would see it. Much of the interview consists of him ranting about the nazis. He claims are running ukraine and against all forms of western liberalism or magnet bed tragedy. I'm a father of five and it's simply my duty to bring them up. According to normal family values. Pride. The perverted Oh gee, bt community is seen ukraine, that's not all cultural, but is hard to pin down the real origin of his animals against his own country and perhaps at the contempt some iranians from the west of the country show towards eastern, like him when he visited his mothers. We in the west. He says he got called moscow scornful term from Muscovite or maybe perhaps it's all about thwarted ambition, sir most of russia,

Food company YAP, but otherwise I use will sell your bloodworms in england by the way you do. You know what the bloodworms are later. He had to see me a job in the state fisheries inspectorate, but he resigned. He says because of corruption. There, then after south american ought to see it was a journalist. Blogger would be politician during the covert pandemic he began. the vocal anti faxa, and for years he promoted a mystical russian national. This theory called the concept of public safety at thirty against hearings, gave them like a backbone, for us is about our culture, going back to the days of sacred pagan, russian believe it's about people who can think globally, like rasputin. Do you know who has put in is another suspected lover alongside the function of a russian queen. This

the wild eyed monk, who advised the countries whilst empress and the role of unlikely heroes, goes on Europe's biggest started. Joseph Stalin represented the concept of public safety, and so in today's politics does legitimate putin. Putin stimulus have found many ways to draw attention to himself he was born. Abroad in the town council and an instant Gun went off at a press conference in twenty twenty. He stood for election as mare and got one point three: seven. percent of the vote, but then, in march this year the russians rumbold interface on almost unopposed The ukrainian army left the city undefended, the fight or bridge of the nipple intact power, or at least the trappings of it, fell into streamer use of slap Yana, see what you're saying when he crossed the

wasn't just a point when everyone else run away. I walked into the regional administration headquarters and created a salvation committee on my own initiative. but if you would allow me just to see she's getting up he's gotten down in an office from which all the officials had fled so as not to abandon the people of her son at such a difficult moment. But in fact not all have sons. Ukrainian officials had abandoned their posts and there was one that the real you masters of the city, not stream uses, but the russian commanders, an intelligent spooks who answered only to moscow, had to deal with a jointly agreed you will receive. It was on the verge of march, crushing troops entered city hall, the earth who was the man. I said I was her collar higher elected mayor of cost.

Speaking to me later on, a very bad line like communications with the city were almost down was still doing his job prison still lives in the presence of armed men. They suggested I beg When the ukrainian flag, I refused for two hours, they tried to persuade me to cooperate with them, but I said that if they went on trying to recruit me, there could be no further communication between us. So at that point they said, ok carry on with your job and on that our first meeting ended streets to citizens, got the journalist ox on a very severe would define the russians. movement because they do not reach. We came out every day at twelve o clock. We sang ukrainians arms and show that the russians go home, even wrote the fires,

social protection to go? And then the russian foods brought a sound system too, and they started playing soon from all children's cartoons. That withdrawn offals, they finished pointedly with the ninety thirty soviet- it. Why does my To land this lack of battle of the songs, but nothing is. I believe that song that they were counting on this kind of old common, shared nostalgia for the soviet union. Absolutely didn't! Yes, absolutely they were trying to remind us of our common passed at the beginning. Occupation? They were trying to say that liberated us. That's why they acted gently, but when the invaders saw how ungrateful most people were the glove,

came off after a few weeks. They broke up the protests firing in the air and hurling stun grenades into the crowd, and they began to lose patience as well with officials still loyal to ukraine is all sort of water lots of fear over. I was coming back from work on the twenty first of march, my wife for me about five o'clock and said there are two cars by the yard. They are waiting for you when they got there. There were six men in black uniforms without any insignia. They started asking where the weapons were hidden victim. Irony, I was mayor of stars, Bu rifqa, a village down the nipple towards the black sea, the russians false. We are

it's him of leading an underground resistance group, withheld handcuffed and unfed for several days, beaten and tortured, but on the spot, as the luminous lawyer mistook a great topic, then the Maybe if I knew what stage was only we telephone I've never heard of it? It's an army filled telephone from day and night in fifties. They attach you do it with a rules on your thumbs and when they turned the handle it sends an electric current through then they through water. Over me, I understood that increases defect. Eventually they released him, but only on condition that he said.

the occupiers yoda, when you featured in washing methods, are posted. The mute. If I didn't want to, they would simply kill me. But after ten days in hospital he had nine broken ribs. He found a third option. He left her son fast. Tens of thousands of others are doing the same convoys of eight hundred cars at a time braving russian checkpoints to reach on occupied territory, but a packaging wistful constantinos anchor stay behind the original state will do screaming with army. I decided I would observe that his through my town, until it someone say journalists right the first draft of history so I decided I would stay here as long as possible ordinary stories we will go on, but without the report has been threatened or abducted, he had to go into hiding. No, the bitter here ning exclaimed switching indulge in thy commodity book by natural. First of all, I

I tell anyone, I'm a journalist, I've had to move house, I cant meet physically will annual my friends or relatives because they might be being followed. I've had to change my appearance very drastically, so all I can do is walk along the street. Listen to what people are saying. I've had to become well, not exactly a spy in my own country than something very close. It's the ocean proportional to how does all this affect you psychologically a year. I've almost stopped eating because when you are under permanent nervous stress, your body won't accept food, and often I can sleep for days on end you're, afraid, they'll find you take you away, torture, you even the slightest rustle terrifies you what he observes when he goes out is a town. Half empty of locals with evermore

strangers on the streets, many of them clearly russian secret police. Listening in like him to conversations with less benign intent, where russia is trying to take over every institution, every business, labour, legitimate business isa through you, either the owner of the stuff register with the russian military authorities- russian texas, give their sellers and russian roubles and later get russian passports, or else the business will be clear than the machinery taken away and new director appointed a new people brought in anyone who doesn't. reed work under the new management simply has to leave: go hungry people lose their wages, any means of feeding their families and he's not just in private businesses that people have to make the excruciating choice between collaboration and patriotism. It's in hospitals, schools even further

his master s have she list. On the fifteenth of April. I was told that the order had plans for me. They wondered if I would agree to be in charge of the theatre me very much that's so he puzzled look chief director of her sons, mcculloch foolish theatre, his boss, the head of the theatre, had fled, but public had no desire to take his place. He knew the ox as the invaders widely known, didn't. Really I can one bit. It helped organise the protests against them but he knew how much they needed to close their to reopen. Clever things in motion will more than any of these goals. It is very good we did it for showing they had all they destroyed, mighty open, ended, wanted harrison to be a contrast, a beautiful poster city that they had come to save, I had already met them and he was all very polite- we talked about the girl

russian directors studies latchkey, and they asked why? Don't we reopen the theatre? Look, how quiet it is in town surely people should be allowed to go out and enjoyed themselves at that meeting? Papua made an excuse to many actors, ready left town. He said, but now the summoning him again, he didn't hung around. He and his family got out of concern as quickly as they could, but the occupiers gotta show anyway, they persuaded the one time head of the fiercest production department by then working. Go me as a security guard to take charge of the institution and the theatre then took part in celebrations for the international day for protection of children. Clowns performed around the statue of camp junk in russian soldiers in black masks kalashnikovs on their show

ended up colouring books, a business. He needs me, I'm a man, you unbelievably cynical. When you're killing ukrainian children would be put on a show for children's defers data using actors, collaborators who agree they returned for ten thousand roubles. What we call thirty pieces of silver to perform for, Children who aren't even from have sung they ve been busting from crimea, one of payments of ten thousand roubles about two hundred and forty five pounds,

I have been offered to employees of many institutions if they agree to work for the occupiers. If they don't, they may not only lose their jobs. Some have also been threatened with prosecution, supposedly on the basis that the geneva conventions, the international rules of war, oblige key workers to continue providing essential services during an occupation. It's an extraordinary argument attempting to shift responsibility for citizens' welfare from the occupiers to the occupied themselves. People are being asked or told to cooperate on the basis of geneva convention to sign declarations that they're going to work for new russian management and be paid their salaries in roubles and all the evidence is that the vast majority are refusing, isn't that

Look, don't you got what you Jim, when you bring about the ideal or no one's forced anyone to do anything? I just announced that if any school principle was sabotaging the educational process, then of course you would be relieved of his because, right now, our children have to be told she d gate, but when you say sabotage, what you partly mean is that the refusal to teach the new russian school programme known all proud that you brought the owners programme. That's not true. We

our own curriculum you bought it'll, be adapted. It will include ukrainian language lessons, but all teaching we'll be in russia outcome. Yes it! Yet, despite all the inducements and threats, only a handful of school principles, out of about sixty in her son are believed to have agreed to the russian terms, teachers and other public servants, a court in a terrible trap. If their son is eventually liberated, they could be jails by the ukrainian authorities as collaborators. the top public servant in the city, the elected mayor of her son s, collar five. When I spoke to him in late june, he insisted he'd, never collaborated! In so doing you should a little butter saying it could keep the liberal burma, I repeat, has

no element of cooperation, I have never signed any papers on never received any benefit of any kind for myself. All I have done is defend the citizens of Houston garage and he ordered kissed the time keeping essential services, heating, water hospitals, transport running. Wasn't he in a sense supporting the occupation? That's what some ukrainian officials, who left her son of suggested, that the mare remotely denied it by staying. He said he tell keep up morale in the city, forcing the occupies to abandon what he says was their original plan to hold a staged referendum, integrating hassan into russia as italy, April look to them, as that is what I just saw any effective scheme. It is because we stayed in his son, because people believed we re stain referendum friend didn't happen, then, so I dont want,

toward myself any medals or criticise others, but those who left the abandoned here so those who have stayed who have kept here some going, how things together that's reveals that disease, but the eighty, from what I was the alike samurai holding onto the end with when we now. What will happen today or the day after this would mean that, could you they say we are going to be elaborated, but when you get and I've got a question based on the liberation who be thereby from us inside the city to help the wounded. Do they expect their russian security forces to help answer me that either listening to you, I'm I'm still amazed how freely you're talking you know. This is a city. That's been under russian occupation for more than three months

They want to turn into a part of russia and his you in a very important position, saying completely openly that you want them to be defeated, mean that six Draw didn't read that they can allow that led the angel. For me, I don't know why they haven't shot mutual. If you tomorrow they will. Maybe today's I didn't know that you was the summarize last three days later, I got a message from his assistant today the russians. Let the mare away in handcuffs he's believe now to be behind bars, just one more person kidnapped by giving a strong boost administration or the russians behind it. You said you're, not ruling

through terror, but from various sources. We ve heard that five hundred people, at least in in her son, if simply being abducted in many countries, the partition- I wouldn't say abducted, let's say- detained. Of course, all those who have tried to destabilize the situation have been detained and they will be put on trial. But, besides the blatant legality of all this, as a practical question. Can the occupiers find enough collaborators to keep the region running? Some, of course, are throwing in their lot with the russians, not for ideological reasons, but just for the chance to wield power and make money in one town near her son. For example, the owner of a local taxi service has been put in charge of an assault factory, a far larger enterprise with contracts for the upkeep of roads for him the invasion.

Career trampoline, but in some places existing manages even elected ukrainian. tools have changed sides to serve the occupiers. One cell. He believed the young there, the village of lasagna on the black sea famous for its beaches,

I can hear you ve kept the local dogs on side, but he admits he's been called showed with now by some voters at you're, not saying you pulled it go, I do it more paralysis. If people turn away from me on the street won't talk to me. Well, that's their right, that's their right, but the question is: where have I betrayed my country? While the countries the people write, the people who live in it and I haven't betrayed the people. Many people, especially all people, are grateful to the point of tears that I've state, because otherwise, who would solve their everyday problem with problem, in fact he's not just helping pensioners he's also pressurizing teachers in the village school to accept the russian curriculum, but not in his case. It seems that

the logical reasons when I ask if he thinks that the russians that ukraine is full of nazis, he gets Robert tongue tied nowhere near the global threat and politics that already tat weapon. Well. First of all, I am not really a big enough politician to talk about such global things say nazis and was flourishing in this village in lazuli meant no, it wasn't where something he's not going rights. Yes, I suppose they were otherwise we wouldn't have got to where we are now. His reason for collaborating, I understand, is simple. He thinks the russians are here to stay and he may as well, except the inevitable, even if it means applying for a russian passports. Simply Everyone will have to But how certain is that the sound of war are getting closer again.

cranes launched a new offensive to retake the sun. Its newly acquired american high mars rockets of even balloon holes in the branch of the negro the russians took so easily five months ago and inside the city there a partisan attacks.

in the late june a buried one vocal collaborator, Dimitri south, which encode head of youth affairs killed by a car bomb. Soon after organizing the party for children's protection day, he was a close friend of curious tremors of. Are you worried about your own future? Can you sleep soundly at night? Are you worried? The same thing will happen to you: let's discuss what korea and anybody you smear cuts because, to be honest, I'm not afraid of death because, as Ernesto CHE guevara said, you shoot and is just a man you're killing, I'm not afraid because I'm helping at birth, I can see a child being born he's talking about the birth rebirth as he sees it of russian her son. efforts to impose the rouble being stepped up in her sons biggest supermarket. You can no longer make card payments in ukrainian currency and the delayed referendum on joining russia

is coming soon. He insists. But what? If ukraine does regain control? What will the fate of collaborators be? Then? Hundreds of treason, investigations have already been opened across the country and in every liberated village will be a settling of scores as victor moreau, niac as a matter of stories boudicca acknowledges was attacking the will of the renewed, my iphone. If you like, before the war, it will be a completely different life. Even when we've won many of the people I knew before the war, I won't be able to talk to them. Even people I thought were my friends. They wouldn't be friends, any answer. I knew was at the game manual. What will happen to carol stream elusive if liberation comes is into question? He of course, won't even consider, but in any case he says he may not stay in her son. Much longer he's itching

to get back on his back when song becomes part of russia are ride. All the way to come. Chatter right across russia will be well beyond the reach of you injustice and back in his own private dreamland. At my faith in a bag legitimately disabled I make an exclusive report for the bbc about what a wonderful, big, undiscovered and kind treaty. Thanks for listening,

ukraine, collaboration and resistance was produced and presented by meet him he'll with sound mixing by road Ok and additional research by you and many other, the production coordinators where I own hammond and brenda brown and the editor penny murphy.