Hi, I'm Alexander DE scientists and along with David French Icon, the order. Liberty, podcast, David, I break down the latest political news, with a focus on the importance of culture and religion and american life our epoch. Those are available twice a week and can be found on Itunes. Google play stature tune in or out you are mine, but death in the Senate. Movement on, NAFTA Monkey Business in Florida. We'll discuss all this and more on this week's edition of the editors Onrush Larry and of joint, as always, or at least once a month by the right we'll Charles see w cook the notorious voodoo, Michael Brenda Authority and ass, far ass, TAT

right hand salon here. Listening to a natural you podcast, sponsor this week is an hour plus the new premium digital Subscription service unnatural view, dot com, a quick public services spent. If you are listening to us, podcast on NASH, review, Dotcom were delighted, have you, but it would be easier for you and better for us. If he made us part of your feet, a Google play stature tune in or I tunes, and if you like what you hear here, please consider reviewing us on. I tend to be don't like what you hear here. Please forget, I said anything: ok, Michael D, pressmen obsessed over the last week. with the death of John Mccain, obviously stork figure in the- U S, military and american politics incredibly honourable man, I think the the story of what he and his fellow Vietnam p D abuse, went through

in no way will live down through the annals of american military history. As long as this is a country in, and maybe afterwards from my perspective, his political record is more mixed. What do you make of it? yeah. I think the first thing anyone should say whatever your politics are, that John Mccain, it was an american hero in Vietnam and beyond, and he, was interesting enough as a as if you want to sell his political career, has record He was a man as many people for sizes week who often stood against his party, often stood on principle, some of those is some of those prince I admire in some ways. I I am probably the only one here that that

admires some of what John Mccain was trying to do in Mccain Feingold. Ah, I totally accept that its unconstitutional, but am I agreed with trying to address the problem. As its foreign policy was idealistic in a way that I've found objection on occasion dangerous. But here the man who was willing to stand up against his party willing to stand up for he believed in, and she did that both as us Roger and, as a senator, I think he's he goes down as one to be the great men of the latter half of the twentieth century and the beginning of the twenty first in this country, such Ali. Without disagree with that judgment of of Michael's, which I think is correct, I've just found- and I felt churlish at times but just found the coverage

highly annoying I mean what the media loved about him most is that he lost the Brok Obama and did it gracefully thirst just this morning on one of the morning shows there's a big discussion of the round. A scientist. Mercy in Florida and someone recommended take ten minutes, go back and listened became concession speech. You know they. They love the fact that he is an honourable loser and I love the fact that he would betray the Republican Party without compunction. Sometimes This was driven by his principles, and I give him credit for that. Although I disagreed with his put for campaigns. Violence reform, which I thought was a debacle his Vernon Obamacare does seem to me totally driven by cussedness and p but they they never celebrate a Democrat for these qualities. It's only republican like Mccain.

We'll get onto this later. But if anyone should be reviewing the work of John Mccain, it should be under Galen who should have come out and I'm not Mccain would have done said no, of course, what from the Santer said, wasn't races as a slap, but of course the press lights became because he was a Republican who, but the Republican Party, that's fine everyone is entitled to his own opinion. I have to say that, while I did like John Mccain, I'm not anti John Mccain say. I have found the coverage since his death to be almost criminally mawkish and if you look at The front page CNN right now, there's a picture of Mccain and it looks like the sort of peculiarity of Obama essentially has a halo. The headline is about how Mccain's faith religions good this week allowed him to forgive himself how much time he spent thing.

About his final judgment before God, and the story under it is about how NATO should rename its headquarters after John Mccain at I dislike this, not only because I think there is a certain hip we see in that the maverick label ready when only in one direction and the thing the press likes about in the most is that he lost through a bomb happily. But I don't like it because it seems to me Republican. Now it is, of course, entirely reasonable for the press to customers in American. Here it he was one and in so far ass. The eulogy

these relate to his military service and his self sacrifice. I think they are appropriate, but that hasn't been the predominant focus. The predominant focus has been on his role as a senator at to the extent that there has been what I would cost us, the suppression of dissent, or at least an ostracizing of people who disagreed with his politics, mostly from the left and I d, like that? I think it's on Republican. I think it's bad for our political culture, John Mccain, the war hero is somebody who should be treated with with reverence and really, I think anyone who who chooses to take shots at his service is being churlish John Mccain, the public employ, is, of course open for criticism. He did take a number of to call positions on the left and the right with which people had significant problems, and I am

I find the way in which he has been elevated in the last few days somewhat distasteful acid and who enjoys robust debate about our political leaders, thermometer two things IRAN and you can go in every direction. You want an two thousand John Mccain shocked the world by beating George W Bush, almost by twenty points for not mistaken Ten points in New Hampshire and Anna was just hell on him and we did everything possible to stop mccain- and I wonder some times, and I have a lot of doubt on this, but I wonder sometimes if that was the right call and how history might have been different if Mccain and one that risk rather than George W Bush sets question one too, and this is certainly a comment-

Mccain, hates Tromp trumpets, Mccain trumps perform, as has just been astonishingly, small minded and petty even for him, but I think there is an aspect of Mccain at Fort Cast. phenomenon, or at least the possibility that kind of politics in in two thousand Mccain was this mad cap performance It was all about improvisation and having fun totally obsessed with catering, to the media and disk total disregard for party politics, covering his happier, throw their problem

pretty overboard and there was a kind of populism and I would argue national nationalism to Mccain's appeal. Yes, certainly on the second point he was an innovator. I remember that distinctly your larger point about what would have happened had John Mccain one, the republican nomination in it, it's a fascinating counterfactual, so basically he would have had an effect on the republican coalition. Would it have been an enduring a fact that much is harder to say

Lee because of his own peevishness. So if you, when, I think about the last twenty five years of american politics, you see a number of different actually really stretching back to ninety two. You see a number of different revolts. You have Ross Bro, you have John Mccain, you have broken bomber, you have Bernie Sanders and then you have Donald Trump and when I think about all of them, just the different possibilities, they created the different ways that they shaped their coalitions. I am struck by the fact that it when I think about Roscoe, I think that he, in a way he had the right coalition had he been aligned with the centre right. That would have been a really formidable

new politics with a country that could have taken us in a different direction in the post, cold war era. The problem is that he was narrowly fixated on balancing the budget and that I dont think was necessarily the exact right focus to have taken given that coalition, but it was really his care was his charisma. It was his personal style. It was a way that it was attacking the establishment, John Mccain, with someone who was both attacking the republican establishment, while also being someone who mirrored back two elements of the establishment. What it is that they appreciated about themselves. A lot of his critique was against evangelical populist politics and fat was an inner. That's a tricky thing because actually do. that there were some tendencies that getting one of the big challenges with the policy of social conservatism. That Europe is that it wasn't actually making some larger argument about governments, relationship to family that went beyond symbolic questions,

that was a failure like if even drove conservatism had been more substantively populist had it actually spoken to some of that Perot constituency that I think you would have had a very and enduring significant kind of politics, and that wasn't John Mccain thing. So I think the John Mccain he could have created new and different possibilities, but on policy questions outside of foreign policy and defence, where he was deep believe knowledgeable and I think it was a kind of a visa there's gonna be so discreet. others anybody. You have made some wrong calls, but I think that he also did a lot of good in that domain. It was actually for anyone to see it in the restless wave. He said that invading Iraq was a mistake that was actually pretty big reversal. Somebody didn't talk very much about, but outside of those doing, Saigon H M owes an attack nature like his particular policy crusades when it came to domestic pets

takes didn't always seem very well considered. So I think that he was an ambiguous figure, someone who is clearly personally very admirable, but I think that he didn't really have the right policy synthesis But on the other hand, he could have really change the two party system in ways that would have been to the good so yeah, In light of this, we had with him and his long when you fight over campaign finest before me, I dont think you ever really understood his own legislation, and that was not as important to him as the symbolism of it and how it kind of House personal honour was caught up in this cause, but MIKE before before run when what we give you a chance to dig in on on the foreign policy costs. From my perspective on this admirable things he did was stand of, an apple for the surge at a time when no one was inclined to do so, and one reason That is a shared Charlie has just done

a further media's handle. This is near timed, oh, which was quite long and they ve had they been working on this a very long time didn't even mention it did he mention your notes are the innovative in in a sense, I think they're trying to save their in an attack today. If I am there, there whitewashing away in his Iraq war record in many ways right, he stood up for the surge when Hamilton. You know that the old guard establishment was kind of trying to get the Bush administration to convince them to wind down I personally am still on that that site of winding down, I dont, think Singing triangle was in no matter how much force we put on it. A short of genocide was ever going to be subdued in a way that is acceptable to us all up the genocide right by him. Yes right, I met. The Geneva that policy is to clarify. You know, I think he

could be extremely rash when he felt that there was a challenge to the law, a world order. As you know, for instance, when he was saying we are all Georgia Georgians. Now this wasn't after an attack on at lantern, but on South Ossetia. You know, so I do not I think my fundamental difference or with Mccain, would be that he thought the best way to protect liberal world order was to exercise more power, and I thought it was too husband it I do. I I feel we emphasising these disagreements now right right after he died, but it it leaves a complicated legacy from Ford. The republican party may in some ways people deified Mccain because he denounced Trump because Trump

didn't like him, but in many ways that it's the foreign policy failures of the Bush administration that helped led us to Donald Trump, Sir. I an ex a question to you rate John Mccain's Senate legacy zero to five zero Ronald Burress, and if you have to be reminded who Ronald Paris as that's up the point, five Daniel Webster five, particularly on the question of military modernization of We are defending America's primacy and what have you he was indispensable. He was an educator of his fellow senators. He has left a deep and lasting imprint. I certainly don't agree with him on every question, but I think that he was a remarkable figure whose legacy will live on for a very long time. Charlie's certified while.

Three. I like him in many ways I don't in others. I don't share the fetish. Isolation for bi partisanship in committee is a complicated person and it gives a very good person which matters, but he water, unconstitutional laws. Your intentions are irrelevant, I think, probably maybe three for purely in the sense that we now and in an area in which there are a lot of terrible people in politics, and he was at least a good man legal. I would say he some Farina half but he'll be pumped up to a fourth When a half by historians who love contrary figures and who, I suspect, will be a bomb in eating the Republican Party of the Mccain era and using him as a kind of farm counter example,

I'm gonna, go to it at a too because, in my own mind, I'd interpreters a little narrow aid Senate legacy, meaning legislative legacy, so obviously a great institutional list, a big personality, some important accomplishments in them, and the military rule, in terms of taking care of the troops and and modernizing the military is right hand mentioned, but really was was in the end, all about his own. His own no honour. So before we move on. Let me mention a little bit more about our sponsor this week, which is an hour plus the new digital subscription service on NASH, argue dot com. If you sign up for an hour plus you get all sorts of amazing benefits. First, you get acts, to all our content, including the print content online and other pieces and coms that might be behind a metered pay wall

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made in and North North America, and a higher threshold for the content. I think seventy five percent of it has to be source to North America, So is this forging a bet trade deal. The way trump promises, camp, in or are all pointless exercise as his detractors say? Well, I want to be fair, so I will start

by saying that there are many smart, thoughtful, intelligent people who believe that some of these provisions, for example the content provision that you mentioned visa the North American automobiles- could well backfire. Because, essentially what could happen is that I am not able to import the most low cost intermediate inputs from outside of North America. Then I will raise the cost of production within the North american zone so that it might be a downside here there is that doesn't seem ridiculous to me. There are concerns about, for example, the fact that certain investor protections have been removed outside of the oil and gas sector, and at this

might make a? U s business enterprises less inclined to invest in the mexican economy long term, but I have to say I guess I dont see there's so much as a matter narrowly of of trade. I actually see this as a larger strategic question and, to my mind, there is a case for re orientation, some supply chains to become north american supply chains, and I see some of these content provisions and what have you as being complimentary to that larger effort? so you know, I think that there is a great deal of value and having low tariffs and what have you, but I think, as a strategic matter having a more constructive and cooperative relationship with Mexico, I think would be a very good thing and I think that this in some ways points us in that direction. I think we benefit when

you know you have just a more prosperous and productive Mexico. I think there are other things that can be done in terms of international cooperation, certainly in terms of domestic mexican policies, but that's actually how I see it. Basically, I see the extent or economic integration with China, as a serious concern, and I think that sir, regional innovation, if there are going to be costs in the short term in the medium term, but I think that longer term that is gonna run down to our benefit. In terms of these larger questions of security and and and briefly, how would this worked on unravel some of those global supply chains? What it doesn't do in any kind of direct way. What it's trying to say is that hey we're trying to create some incentives for you to rely on north american supply chains, and it just creates that possibility to do that kind of like bigger picture, refocus You're gonna need a variety of other complimentary policies, but ice. This is something that kind of fits without pattern and that by the way, is part of why some folks,

many free traders- and I understand where they're coming from objective- is so strenuously so try this portion of the discussion where you come in and say something very vexing to right hand. So please who had not just think we're doing laughed again. We have done throughout rotten, maybe some of that's correct, but dont Trump didn't run on establishing north american supply chains and in fact, when people like Steve, more selling the president's proposal, they sell it on the grounds that this is a zero tariff move, we're moving towards zero tariffs, so yeah. I can see the case that one or just to be clear. I think he did run on opposition to chinese economic. or on concerns about the extent of our integration with China. So I don't think, that's quite fair. Its truth, Steve more says something very different steep. Nor is it any number of things over the years, but I dont think its.

Air to say that Donald Trump did not express concerns about the extent of our economic entanglement with China. Yes, he did, but but the argument the Trump made was that China was cheating and this was causing people in the Midwest their jobs, because they were. dumping, steel, etc. What Donald covers many many things, many, which I disagree with, that are really actually oriented towards economic, ah Tarpey, so I mean, I think, that it's not quite right to say that I will talk was campaigning on a kind of zero tariff. It certainly true that he said that from time to time, but Donald Trump contains multitude. and certainly among these multitudes, were protectionist sentiments that I have do myself so right. I think that its opponents are getting on right. The argument here, which is a legitimate one, is that it would be good, economically and in terms of national security to establish more robust north american supply trains and that change and that costs Mexico's as an ally. As s part,

this strategic plan, but that's not in any way how Trump cast his trade policy let a problem I have two and now we are a little bit astor that lead all these jobs to run. Every idea was letter compel Mexico in order to pursue policies that are more consonant with american interests, and I dont by I think that that can be a very noxious approach, but the idea was we were going to get better deals out of Mexico. Mexico is going to become a more power viable ally. I do not think that the right way to look at it We are to have a relationship of equals with Mexico's you're right about that, but I think that actually Donald envisioning a more cooperative relationship with Mexico. He was just talking about using compulsion and leveraging America superior economic power to get a more pliable mexico. So I think it's a subtle distinction, but I think it important one I think we're making faces clouds once camp has another

say nothing. Good will come of this. Of course, who knows fellas, scurried team, I do not have a firm view on this renegotiation, as I just I have not really dug in on the substance. The kind of overall picture is I'm gratify that he at least once it a deal, and if you get a decent NAFTA and in our fire is trained at China. I don't think that's it. Welcome yeah, it's hard judge these right away because it's their producing bullet point talking points about this or that little faction, but you actually dont know how the whole works until you real experts dig in and study study it for awhile, in general, I thought what was interesting about this event. Was you know, Donald Trump, as kind of talked about this? Bilateral ISM in his negotiating strategy that he wants

If we want I'm one negotiations and he broke off Mexico from Canada did a separate deal. People said this is going to break the whole thing. Down but Canada's come round and they want they want to keep talking. I think, on that narrow point. Donald Trump seems to be vindicated. At least that sometimes it's better to step away from a multi lateral table focus on a deal you can. She with one and induce a third party partner to join along, You worry, though, however, that in the past we ve seen especially on foreign policy questions, the Donald Trump we'll talk, tough aim and then sign away anything that he can get over the line. We saw that in Singapore. So I like that, I'm That's? Why I'm reserving judgment on the details of this deal, because I will in that way

in a pattern of talking, tough and then not actually achieving much of the substance, Et Cetera Michael raised a really important part of this. It really is true that if you look at its really Robert Light Heizer strategy, although it is consonant with Donald Trump, this idea we ought to leverage the size of our economy, the size of our market in order to secure better deals, and we ought to do that in bilateral fashion, and this is one of the big criticisms from the kind of pro trade dispute or just the kind of inner law your universe of trade policy scholars and what have you because their concern is that the money? I lateral trading order, is incredibly important and valuable. and he's endangering this that there is a chinese perspective that look he recognizes has United States has is declining powered. Has it's gonna have a your hand, ten twenty thirty years in the future. So let's leverage our power now- and I appreciate that, but I guess The counter argument is this: if you look at, for example, China

w to accession agreement. One sophisticated argument is that look everyone was exe acting that we would revise that that there would be a Doha round these multilateral trade negotiations that did not wind up happening so another way to approach what has wound up. Happening in this NAFTA deal is that it's actually about its part of stumbling forward to cut up, try to modernize the internet, trading regime, and before you do that, multi, lateral fashion. You demonstrate that you have some other option right. So if you look at TCP, that's been won argument. Oh all, Donald Trump did that's good is basically mimicking teepee. First of all, that's not quite right, but it really is true. The teepee was a different kind of an hour. agreement that was a modernized agreement and when you're looking at trade agreements that date from an earlier era, you know- sometimes you do have to update them to reflect a base Equally, the different ways: economic life works, because, when you're dealing with multi, corporations they engage

tax and regulatory arbitrage. They changing how they do business constantly. So, if you're looking at states that are trying to see to it that there are not- surely taken advantage of by these actors. Are they sometimes need to update, upgrade what they're doing now? I think that double trumps rhetoric is oftentimes really counterproductive. Other stuff I made it is first and foremost because Lopez Oprah door. The press an elected Mexico. He wants to reduce immigration for Mexico Right Donald Trump once her immigration from south the border. There a huge amount of room for cooperation here. But to do that in a partly you just have to kind of deal with people more respectfully, and I think that you see inklings of that, partly because I mean Donald Trump, so desperate for victory. So we'll see where this goes, but I think that there are certainly some reason for optimism,

The Charlie Ex a question to you on a zero to five scale. I'm trying to keep him simple for Ryan Salaam sake today, Rate Donald Trump as an international trade negotiator based all we know so far. Certified zero he's the racket wrath of the international trading system. Five, not since Bretton Woods have, we seen Such adept international negotiation, I'm giving a mazurkas. You knows nothing about trade, and that is not to say that there will be some good things, possibly that come from this, but they will largely be the result of the need in other countries to trade with America. Many of you. If you, our America, you have all this power and start throwing away to around. Maybe you'll get some of what you want, but it's more by luck than judgment. We have to go back, I think if we average out all your your trade answers is probably a zero growth is not enough is a translation error. The man has no idea what is talking about Michael zero, that I'd say

to his his instinct is correct that America has weight to throw around and the ability to make demands, think that six exactly right. He is it would. It would be higher, though if he picked his fights more intelligently and not complain as much about like Canadian, dear one. When the when the issue is China, Ryan Certified, I agree with MIKE at it yeah, that's it yet a fourth I'll go back. I read your dishes. I will go to two point. Five percent of that up. That's just a point, underscore do pure point in and wait to see what happens as is developed such others go to you as the already and honest podcast. We had a big primary night. in Florida around Santas one which was not

rising, given that the drift of the thing over the last several months, but would have been surprising to some people are when he first got into the race and obviously truckles to Donald Trump, but it worked out for him and my perspective is just it it's easy for opinion riders to kind of look down at Republicans her or doing that kind of politics. But if you're, actually a politician who wants to win elections or primer hasty gotta, do it in some form? and the real shocker was Andrew Gill. On Hu, I guess is running forth her way behind in the polls and an one convincingly and he is from the Alexandria COS, or tears wing of party? You name a far less progressive cause and he's on board and

little different than nominated Canada like that in a district that straddles queens in the Bronx. This is a real big gum swing states what he make of it, and then we will get to lead the monkey controversy wow oversee, I'm very much hoping that two santas wins. I think, but If you were to review every single state in the union and then asked the question, which least needs a socialist governor, the answer would probably be fired. If you take that the top ten states and population and you review their unemployment rate, floaters bottom has the least unemployment of any of them. It also has the lowest tax burden of any of them

and its manage to do that, while keeping education spending up an increased again last year. This is not a state that needs fixing and anyway, it certainly doesn't need one. I'll died, socialists fairies, fifty dollar, minimum wages, medicate expansion or any of that so Andrew get em. I think it is entirely wrong for the state the scientists was not my choice, I was for Putnam and there were a number of reasons for that. The first one was It is thus far and I'm sure he will pivot, but thus far has been almost exclusively concerned with national questions, which is fine in here rose high representative or, if you are, if a precedent, but he's not he's running to governor of Florida, Florida has its own people.

it has its own issues. I don't like the nationalization of politics. I am a staunch federalist. I would much rather listened to somebody running The governor who wanted to talk about Florida and Floridians issues and not only about federal issues. Putnam was good at that, although he was for by the scientists is national focus to become more interested in all that. and the sentence has not been. I also have not enjoyed the sentences. Trump peanut I mean I understand that that Trump is relatively popular in Florida, and I understand that Some sort of lip service to the president is necessary, but I thought the scientist pushed it much much too far. He he's been to protective of Trump. I think income, ass and he's also cut adds that were almost self periodic in them obsequious. That said,

I was in some ways disappointed by the scientists for that. Precisely because I have found him impress it. When I met him, he is impressive, he's smart! He knows the issues he has an excellent grasp of political economy, and he is something of a boy scout which may come to its it to help him, because and gave him, although not directly under FBI investigation, is in the middle of a corruption scandal from his times as a smile Tallahassee, size that little bit disappointed in dissenters. This behaviour, not because I dislike him per se, but because I liked him when I met him and says that, what's going to happen, this is going to be a genuinely fascinating one. It certainly true the Florida leans.

Publication in the legislature. It's almost two to one in the house, as a majority in the Senate is well Andrew. Republicans, if held the governess mentioned now for writing was twenty four years. But it's not a super concerned super republican state is not Wyoming or Montana, and one of the ways in which Republicans have managed to hold power is too big, solid coalitions and also to run on the centre right, and that was why many people, myself included, thought that Adam Putnam might be a better choice because he's in a fence. If he's a sixth generation floridian seen us as pro business but he's not seen as a firebrand. Now you might think well andred, limbs election makes round, the scientists is so a nomination makes round the scientists election more likely, and I think that's probably true, but you do have hair a contest.

Tween. Somebody who is on the far left the looney laughed and somebody who has staked out of position ass. More of a self consciously conservative figure in the house, Freedom Caucus and also in his defenses of President Trump and quite how that will play in in this Electra. I am not sure foreigners, definitely a trend towards a media, overplays estrangement, obviously very real and water, women candidates, winning democratic primaries, an hour and the south. You have two african american candidates from the left running and given a trail races and Georgian Florida, yes, and you also have to hispanic gubernatorial candidates in Texas in arizona- and this is a bit of a change. I remember Josh crash our some years ago observing that when you look at candidates of color, you notice this funny pattern

where the Republican Party, which is a wider political party, nationally, actually with somewhat more likely to have state why candidates or non white so in a think about your Nicky Haley's in the past at him. Scott, and what have you marker, Rubio among others, but when you're? Looking at Democrats, what happened in the past is that many democratic candidates, they were representing majority minority constituencies and the idea was that this tended to limit their appeal with larger oftentimes a wider electorates, whereas now you're looking at the change in the composition of the democratic primary electorate, is partly the fact that I think that there is an eagerness on the part of many liberal white voters

embrace diversity and to vote for a different set of candidates, and also you have arising minority share of the democratic primary electorates, an interesting trend. There's one one congressman. Excuse me: one congresswoman val demagogues representing a central, sordid district and she's a really interesting example of the kind of democratic candidates we might get in the future he's an african american woman. She is also a former law enforcement officer and you someone who cuts a more moderate profile and she represents a district that is not majority minority as she's the kind of person you can imagine as a very effective statewide candidate in the future. The interesting question, though, is to see what be the political profile of these candidates because of either because it's not gonna be monolithic right. So, in the case of Jerusalem. You have a candidate who is African American, who is also pointedly identifying himself with the kind of as rich said earlier, on this kind of democratic socialist tendency in the party, but there

you, don't you're, also to have other candidates, were non white candidates, but who are also going to be scrupulous we moderates, you see this in Maryland. For example, where you have the gubernatorial candidate, jealous, who again is very much in the kind of democratic socialist camp. But then you have the chief executive of Montgomery County, the most affluent county, the state. This kind of old School African American was involved and civil rights politics, and what have you earlier and square, as is the gubernatorial candidate by the way, but he someone who has actually been streamline reluctant to endorse Alison why's that, because by jealous wait, you left wing and is concerned about the possibility that Ben jealous well tax, his middle come upper middle income. Constituents in this suburban county to punitive lay. So I think that you know, there's oftentimes this tendency to conflate race, skin color, and what have you with where you fit on the ideological spectrum and that's a mistake. What we're seeing is

more candidates were not white or entering our politics, but also a lot more political diversity among those candidates and that's going to Benson to see Michael, let's hit the ridiculous story of the weekly site, considered completely ridiculous. Which is the morning after the election. The Santa goes on Fox, as we need to take Gill really seriously. He perform well in the debates. Articulate charismatic but he has an agenda that is disastrous and dont want a monkey with the success that Rick Scott achieved in this state and because there was the use of the word MA, DE, although wasn't a now, he wasn't calling Guillaume, monkey is using it as a verb. Therewith The world fell down on two sentences head and he is charged with using a dog whistle and know what link with the dog whistle would have been just pointing out that his opponents

African American, when everyone would know his opponent was an african American and Dissent I know a little bit, I don't think he's a Haider and I don't think an idiot and no way he would have thought that this was a good waited to start the general election campaign yeah. It's it's almost unfortunate that, like innocence, every stay wide republican candidate for office should probably try to hire the most? You know conservative college Republican out of a liberal arts school to consult and draw up a list of every right, every word or expression or idiom that could be reinterpreted ads we, racial or gender or in that attack. I believe you know, I think dissenters. I think you're not exactly right. I think it was just that was

idiom he chose. I don't think he had anything about race his mind. It's just one that would be seized on anything whatever can be? He's done no matter how implausible will be, and you have to be careful I just think this is different men. George Alan in two thousand six saying like hey. We ve got this mecca here that it was this really boutique slur of word and it was used to describe the person itself. This was this: was him trying to make a political point about how he doesn't like socialism the troll you referred earlier to. How Mccain will react to this controversy also think it's. The Tao Obama would have reacted to this controversy if using Guillaume shoes with which just I dont think Obama would as this is racism and give him said, is not a dog whistles it sooner there

using a bull horn, and you had an excellent post about this, pointing out the dishonesty but the media, beginning with the hill headline which, which cut out off all the contacts in the fact that he is talking about gills agenda and betrayed at he, as you saying of just electing a black man, governor of of Florida, would would monkey with the success of the state what what the hell did was an wilfully and deliberately for clicks and possibly more was to pretend that descent he said so, saying that he didn't and meant something that he didn't and meant something that nobody seriously believes that he meant or would be good enough to say, and that is that Florida would monkey this up, by electing an african american governor. That's what the headline and not just in

help at another outlets to imply. What dissent is actually said was that floor is doing extremely now and that the Socialists agenda that is being advanced by giving him whom he praised as a person would monkey I am in two minds as to whether politicians should watch themselves this carefully On the one hand, they are professionals- and you don't want to give your opponents any ammunition on the other. If you stop, watching every single thing that you say, because if you don't, I will take it out of context deliberately and lie about you. And you will end up on able to speak candidly or without notes,

You also will end up acknowledging that the press is immoral and is, to borrow a phrase, your enemy, so I'm not especially critical. The scientists to this, because it is so so so obvious in context that he didn't mean anything by and I must admit to having been disappointed by Andrew Glimpse response. I expect a two bit hacks Anna Navarro, to rush to television and say this is terrible and racist, but not somebody who may be the governor of the state, not least because it is, divisive. It is just not a good thing too. People racists when they're, not especially if they may be in a position of authority, and we here

great deal together like when you get Magdalen here yeah. I think I'm an immediate defend, give him on one little aspect here, which is that you know, at their using a in a bowl horn. Not it's not a dog whistle, and I think what he's doing is its. All fair in love and war to scientists has tied himself very closely to Trump, even if he's done it in a kind of light way. The democratic base believes trumps. Policies are racist. In border separation, travel ban, all sorts of other things. So the demo I have no incentive to take it light on Republicans right now. When echo bombers running into. Doesn't it against John Mccain Drama Games are respected war, hero, etc, and basically Obama was constantly, sir, signalling, I am not a black radical. I I am not going to threaten the Americas. You know at I'm a product of an american that we can all be proud of that political.

Climate is so different now during the Trump era, and Why? I agree that the scientists is not guilty. He was not It deliberately doing a racist. I was all you have to soon that every Democrat is not going surrender that issue the race issue, while Trump is in office and while you're tied to Trump Brian quickly, what it alot pundit had a little post over it hot air. On the subject, I thought made a pretty astute observation. There are two ways of characterizing what dissenters had said as racist. One of them is that this was a subliminal slip on the Santas part he has either. He has some sort of deep seated racism. Therefore, in his mind, he associated monkeys with african Americans, something like that and that you are and what Allah pundits at is that you know look, there's really no way of duty.

in it. We can't know if that's true or not. The second point is that this was a dog with all this was a deliberate effort to basically mobilise racist sentiment in the Florida General election. Electorate to redound somehow to run this emphasis benefit, and what Allah pundit said is that, while that just makes no sense whatsoever, assuming that scientists as it is a kind of recently Bric, a Brac iron, which you know by all accounts- he is, it just seems crazy, because clearly, what that's going to do is actually galvanise your opposition it way to cause some of your, you know, Where are your supporters, including Republicans to think twice about? You- and much else is something that will be a persistent embarrassing the idea that there's some political percentage to be gained, particularly given that, by the way, what are the reasons Rick Scott has proven politically successful, despite the fact that he

one. His first raised very narrowly statewide is because he has a tremendous support from poorer regions residing in full Florida. Another Yokota, not my photos. Other people would presumably be sensitive to that kind of her racial appeal. If dissenters he's going to win, he has not gonna win exclusively on the backs of voters who are usually prejudiced and it doesn't- it's not cleared the directly all that many of those voters in Florida these days so that we thought that thought occurred to me. It is a kind of interesting and useful one here with this have made sense, even if he had some kind of sinister agenda, but I also think that MIKE's point is very well taken, and the thing is that if you are running the kind

The campaign to Santos is running. You have to know that your opponents are gonna, be loaded for bear, and that is a reason to be cautious. I'm in Charlie's point is well taken. You don't have. That can be really tougher people, but is also true that there are lots of Americans who ve kind of felt like they have to be very careful in their speech, because there are lots of sensitivities on the part of lots of different people. It's really tough, but it's why a life in politics is not for everybody. Ex a question to you, Charlie Cook, who, in the Florida Gub Gub, notorious Andrew, give em a run centres. I don't know if this is how long thoughtful pauses priority to guide us, not you Charlie. I just donor, I can make it areas is a certain day. We are, we all look too few see you're even refused to answer the first note on earth Ryan will reinterpret the question. The fact that less than answers are going to come back,

you for an answer to our economy at a lower. Did you come back to man in December? an appeal in order. Santas kill em Well get limits its that that'll, be the earthquake ran dissenters. I must say to Santa's. I really really really want to scientists to win but I am not certain, but I'm gonna have at the moment I am bold enough. Try to offer an answer, even if I am not entirely sir, how about you from earliest provide our defensive Charlie's. Incredibly unusual, I thought you sounded on this question. I will say that you ve got. Who knows what will happen if the national political scene that will affect mobilized and energize democratic voters are, and also how demobilized and depressed republican voters are. So I think that that there is therefore no excuse, Charlie Guelemer dissenters outside the scientists, very, very narrowly

so narrowly by the way that I was going to say Gilan before Michael Brendan, so Michael, we were to have a little more time with this, unfortunately, were a little pressed for time, which does no, it's not fair to the momentous nests of a topic which is the ongoing church scandal, which you ve, covered and passionately and in detail and caveats upfront, I'm the raw, interlocutor on this, because one I'm not a Catholic too Have not read any these stories beyond the coverage on her own websites. I find them so depressing and heartbreak

three. I have not heard the names pronounced of many the players, so I would be extremely vague. There is as blockbuster accusation- and I guess, a letter that was sent to eight a conservative website and that that really is highly explosive, but it remains to be seen whether the accusations in it are true give us your take yeah. So just because people up the Vatican's for were embarrassed or to the United States. Archbishop Carlo Maria Vagina wrote this eleven page kind of exposing saying that the Pope, Francis and a whole host of his cardinals Curio officials, etc knew about Cardinal Mc Herrick, the washing DC from Archbishop, who is now credibly accused not only of raping the first Charlie, ever baptized

when he was a minor but also of prayer. Hang on some Arians throughout see no five beckoning career in the church basically Vagina said princess knew about him, knew that Pope Benedict Head put some restriction on mechanics life in his retirement and he lifted his restrictions made mechanic influential in picking out new cardinals and bishops for the american church and all these other people are implicated in the documents will be in D c and in roamed prove it and he finished up. I sing the Pope should resign. This is like historic. This is like a century. He's of a story of a half a millennium type of a moment in the catholic church, its almost all bishops and cartels are, but almost by definition, company men too. So to stand out and say the Pope should resign any number of other cardinals around him should resign. This is it. This is a big beyond. This is from a man who was in a position to know and details

slowly being reported that cast. You know, sir, credibility and his claims, some doubt and We see that in a base We only bishops in United States that are attacking the credibility of this letter, are the ones that are written about an implicated just about everyone else, including the head of the Conference of Catholic Bishops in the United States, has said this. Man is credit. and we have to investigate these claims this is a massive story. It would be incredibly disheartening from Catholics to discover that the Pope now willingly, elevated and rehabilitated than is lifted, penalties against someone. He knew to be a guilty predator. I would say this is consistent with some things that France's system for where he has taken a hard, zero tolerance line against conservative clerics and bishops

he's taken a much softer line about those he considers allies geologically. So so quite them completely uniform questions. Sure she's. What is what does that mean that put restrictions on the retirement of someone that rape, the child? and grievously abused his authority, the. Why is even that sufficient ray, I would they do not now. Basically what the story. Is that the word eventually got back to Rome that in the two thousands that Macao Eric was someone who prey upon seven Arians. There was no hint at that time that he had raped a minor and what happened was Benedict had already accepted. His retirement only reached time in age, and then supposedly that we don't know the deed these restrictions, but supposedly handed him to a life of of some form of penance in silence

he seems to have totally flouted anyway. He devil took a lower profile during Bennett, Ix Papacy, so much so that journalists, who loved Mc Eric said that he seemed to have had his wings clipped, but he did make appearances. He did do this and its. This exposes the fact- and I've been doing my own reporting on this with sources in Rome that there is kind of secret disciplinary system, where the Pope puts restrictions on bishops. If em an angel impropriety if they have sexual impropriety or something Sometimes these are flouted because the church doesn't, like an interpol to enforce these laws in or these these restrictions. The restrictions, though this is what the gallows. Sir said there would be file on them in the congregation for bishops in Rome and in the near future. But basically we, the embassy, Vatican's embassy

in D C, Pope Francis has encouraged reporters to investigate the claims themselves saying you know no comment from him: but in fact he could endless inst almost instantly by lifting what what's called the pontifical secret. That's basically the confidentiality of these documents. He just the pontifical secret allow journalists to examine the mechanic file, That is indeed see and see these claims are true or not. I don't think going to do that. I thought I think we're going to discover that this is actually much shabbier. Then than we even we ve imagine, so what would it take for a pope to be forced to resign? It gets into even more difficult territory, because the Canon law suggests that a camp held resignation would be in valid, but what exactly defines compulsion? I mean that in the past

though what people were imagining were. And says, and kings in a marching in like a Napoleon marching era and compelling resignation. Does moral compulsion count and if so you know, wouldn't that bring into question, an ex resignation, because an all single gets get a couple computing power. this year. No, no, that's what I'm saying it's. What is interesting about the story is that this is plunges into the kind of catholic history that people marvel at the renaissance or from the low middle ages, and I think, There are more shoes to drop particularly ease financial corruption. Mechanic was in control them? A massive amount of money in the slush fund, cardinal whirl, his six sir signed off on a totally bizarre grant to a financially corrupt

institution in Rome at the personal request of the pope either I think a lot more to uncover here, the question is whether the mainstream media outlets that have credibility like the New York Times in Washington Post are going to investigate these claims seriously or whether they you're going to as they have so far basically said, this is just a bunch of homophobia in the catholic church, going after a good, progressive Pope. So last just simple minded question ass talkin to french colleague about this yesterday. Has there been an and why not and wouldn't help if someone in authority and and I used to be radically against men crying in public affairs like where the worst aspects of our culture

softened honours forgotten older. But why can someone to stand up and say I'm so disgusted, I'm so embarrassed, even if they had nothing directly to do with eight. These cases in just weep show had deep depth the depth there feeling about this, just Orpheus, so bureaucratic yeah mean it's one of the things about the vagina letter that was heartening was it was a kind of had a bitchy catty tone to it seemed human and angry and outraged, whereas everyone else's with a p, a grand jury report, the mechanic up there. There issuing he's, like very official sounding statements of sorrow. They just don't seem human I've talked to people about this in the church in they say partly, it is a fact of. This has been a huge scandal. Long time and people on the inside our desensitize to these details and in half

ass, some of the initial gag reflex that they might have had ten or fifteen years ago. I'm helping us vision, answer I wait to see what happens mean, what we would hope for at least I hope for as a Catholic is reform of the church. Is moral reform and renewal, whether that can happen under this papacy I, I severely doubt it now, but we will see. There's gonna be a lot of pressure thanks, Michael so, let's hit a few other little things before I go I had you been watching the movie death stuff. I had the pleasure of watching the death of stolen must in a week or so ago, I had been reluctant to see it. It's a kind of thing that I know

we would want to watch, but I thought oh gosh. I was anxious about how they handled it, but then I watched it and it's a comedy. It's a comedy covering an incredibly ghastly, brutal regime, but somehow the comedy actually highlights the awfulness of the soviet regime and its just done so cleverly. It covers lots of historical twists and turns with a light touch, but it also just leaves you with this sense of real dread and foreboding. It was a really Corky mix. Emotions, but I found it very effective in actually also prompted me to revisit the second volume of Stephen Catkins, stolen, biography, and I ve got to say that's another thing. I strongly recommend such your email experience has been readily radically degraded or

beyond September twenty fifth, I am one of those people who almost has a stroke. When I see a phone as a badge on the email up is a hundred thousand whatever donors destroy. Never let you have a look at my fine. I I know I know you do, but Jonah also does Kevin. Williamson does so many people there. I currently have time to delete emails. I made aren't they- or at least I did when I use this Apple Newton, which used to be cloud magic, which is the best him out ever made simplistic minimalist, has a bunch of useful features you can snooze send later, has read receipts and a whole bunch, a keyboard short cuts. It is completely intuitive, and so you can do in that nerdy phrase yours on your mouth as it comes in I'd, never found in Athens this, that I liked for email, and I am

Obregon, because when I got the email saying that the service was shouting down, which it isn't September, twenty fifth ok I'll have at the others that are on the market, and there are just not. There is none that are any good. So I'm gonna go back into email how and man that rich, like you with a hundred thousand unready mouse on my phone and Michael. Watch the news is no better call so yeah So I don't watch allotted tv series Is any more because of being apparent and having a lot of responsibilities? and just having to watch more on over and over again with my daughter, but I do make a point to watch. Better call saw which is us. Not serious from breaking bad that centres on the lawyer character, but, let's play by Bob Odin Kirk. The whole concept of the show should not have worked this idea of taking this kind of comic relief character from breaking bad and going backward in time, but me

and this shows justice, gripping and morally compelling is breaking bad, maybe even more so as this art, it's almost like a Greek, try three, where you see a real flesh and blood man struggling between different impulses himself and you know that he's going to become the that, like venal terrible character, you saw in the previous series. It is really really great tv and skill again. The creator of these two shows is the artist of our time. I mean, I think he is the Hitchcock. He is the You know, Scorsese e of our era. Any works on the small screen sign that our and, as I do occasionally about how our seasons are messed up and how went too far really begins about August. Seventeen sinister the slightest little hint a chill in the air at night, which happens around then, and as just this week added friend and colleagues house,

out in New Jersey and there were leaves there are brown leaves falling, so it is fall foul lasts. From now until about MID September and then as winter and then than we suffer untold summer. Again, that let's go to editors, picks Michael. What's your pic John O Sullivan former editor of mashed review as also written on the scandals in the catholic church, music. wonderful piece online. Now is the Pope Catholic that I would recommend to anyone? Ryan? What's your pic Teddy four wrote a really smart subtle peace on the politics of immigration. Restriction in the Trump era is published a little over a week ago, but it is still many fresh check it out. Charley was your Kevin, Williamson's demolition of an uncharacteristically bad economist piece on

Creasy in America, the gist of which was that America doesnt really have democracy, because it has various features such as the Senate that suppress it given points out that that's only true, if you, God. Democracy is being peer, majority terrorism in every area and also, if you invert, the way in which Americans look at their republic. My pig is everything that Michael and Alexander Santas have been running on our website about the church scandal. That's it for us, you ve been listening to a national you pod, guest in Iraq, broadcast retransmission are counter. This gave without express written permission of national view. Magazine is strictly prohibited. The spot cast has been produced by the UN. Comparable. Sarah should he who makes a sound better than we deserve take Charlie. Thank you Michael. Thank you right hand thanks. to all of you for listening. We

the editors and see you next.