I'm Alexandria to think this, and I'm one of the hosts of national I've used ordered the pretty podcast by compost, David French and I discuss all the latest in political news and especially the intersections between politics, culture and faith. We approach these topics with a focus on. Constitution and the importance of our founding values and every once in a while, you can even catch us talking about, are clashing views on sports and pop culture. You can listen to ordered liberty at National review, dot com or subscribe on Itunes. Google play Fisher tune in or wherever else you get your pack gas, Will Bill BAR, get impeached Boom Biden Strong out a gate, but is it sustainable and are these Madeira is last days? Will

Gus all this and more on this week's edition of the there's umbrage Larry and join is always early summer time by the right. Honourable Charles See W Cook Alexandra Zan, the scientists and the smartest particles consult, and we know Luke Thompson curious envy de microbes Dorothy is out on assignment promoting his new book that is finally out. My father left me. Ireland, please have one out there pick up a b or listening to a natural podcast if listeners, podcasting sure you d Come were delighted, have you, but it would be easier for you and better for us to be made as part of your feet at Google placed at your tune in or Itunes, and if like what you hear here, please give us a glowing five star view on Itunes. If you don't like what you hear here, please forget, I said Anything so Charlie the political world blew up this week over Bill Bars testimony before

and Judiciary Committee plus the revelation that Robert Mauler earliest Andrew Weissmann wrote a letter to Bill bar objecting to his? How his letter, a letter of summary of findings from the Mulder report about a month ago, was being betrayed and the public discourse for me this is just one of the the most absurd, non scandals of the Trump era- and it seems to me a massive misdirection, I mean, if Bob Bob more wanted to recommend the indictment are charges against Trump obstruction. Everything else is actually free to do it. If the law and the fact supported it. They didn't and Democrats are perfectly free to reach conclusions, whatever Bill BAR says and impedes the present abuse of power or because they think his conduct constituted a crime, but instead

just all enjoy beating up unbar boats. Is a guy right post in the corner and which I noted that So many people within our political firmament, within the press, within the Democratic Party within the organised, left some on the right to have started with the conclusion. They had decided that doctrine was guilty of collusion or something ages and proceeded from there, and that this was making conversations impossible, because, on the one hand you have people who are waiting for the evidence and on the other, and you had people who are waiting for confirmation and the mother of all doesnt seem to have removed this certainty from those people? They are still scouring the landscape evidence we saw this when the Mulder report came out in full every time

within the Mulder report. That mother reiterate a basic fact that, for example, Congress Cannon P that the o Elsie has a view on indictment that there are. Pieces of evidence that needed looking out within the obstruction case. You see people highlighting them as evidence that their secret coded messages that matter is trying to convey- and I think we see the same thing here this. idea that Bill BAR misrepresented the report. I think it is wrong on its face but even if he had, even if he had come to a different judgment in some small ways than did Mahler it doesnt matter, because he released the whole report, he didn't have to release the horrible and he did it anyway. It seemed to me that

This is a cover up, and that is the argument is a poor one, but even more than that, the idea that a few days of bill Buzz, being in the public is enough to forever sully. The Miller report is just wrong

We spent two years in which it was suggested every single day on cable news in Congress around the country. That jump was probably guilty of collusion that he was probably a traitor that he would probably be indicted that the walls were closing in that we were coming to the end that his presidency was going to be reversed. That was not enough to make people misread the Mulder report, which says the opposite ignores billboards, testimony which high in the air for what two weeks three wisdom is three weeks. This strikes me as the last gas attempt to turn this report into something it is not and water.

he's not is the death knell of the trunk presidency or the harbinger of indictments and impeachment to come as his museum, the two main charges against bar one that he is misleading in this summary letter, even if you take that is true child points out three weeks later, you get the entire report almost entirely on reacted. So what's the big deal aside so trumps poem numbers mood or anything, fundamental change in the debate over hammer his conduct in those intervening three weeks, to that, his somehow guilty of perjury, in his answer to Chris VON Hollan, who asked him now about whether mauler subjected to a summary letter but asked him whether Mahler agreed with his judgment, meaning his judgment that Trump had committed a crime then his answered Shirley Crest and Christmas question was more on point. You said there are these anonymous more people out in the wash imposed complaining about how you ve handled

as you know, what they're complaining about any said, no, which are strictly accurate answer and in volunteer as well. I suspect that there what more information out there, but I don't really summaries now, because I really the whole thing soon enough right now. I think that's exactly right in and I think the reason we are seeing this from from Democrats is there really grasping everything they could possibly find, and I think they know opinions about Donald Trump or are consistent and settled, and they were before the report came out and they really needle didn't move very much as a result of the report, and so I think at this point there trying to use this testimony in any sort of straw. They can find to try and use it as a weapon against Trump still, because their disappointed that there

anything about collusion, and there is no collusion, their disappointed that the people who are worth defending trump before were right, and I think they they want to use it still as a political tool. There's a lot of Democrats could have done more ahead of time to try on this issue, and I think that they know now that it's sort its fallen apart its it was not the silver bullet hoped it would be, and so I think they want to try and make bar look like a trader somehow make em look like. Isn't trumps pocket like you is inappropriately defending trump, He really didn't do any of those things he summarised. I think the report fairly and everything that it was at least defensible and I dont think that he was trying to cover for Trump. I don't think, there's any argument three made for that, but they want to keep it in the news. I want to keep it an issue so saluting stepped back. So what? What is the role of an attorney general and a matter like this collective? You can make the case that, in his interpretations of these matters are more favourable to Trump some other people doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong, but the last seems to take it as a

given that the agency should somehow be completely neutral and, active player and actually, in this case, should be more hostile to the president, then that than absolutely no sir. You I mean this is fascinating from people who cheered Eric holder for what six years, while he described himself ass, the presence, women, look, the attorney general's and never a member of the cabinet he's six seventeen line for the presidency, something like that. He has a lot of responsibility that responsibility comes with wide discretion that discretion certain includes the timing of releases. He absolutely scheduled the timing to maximize the kind of rhetorical and public opinion benefits of this to the administration and administration he serves and, politically speaking, at the expense of House and Senate Democrats there upset about that

but there is not a kind of constitutional issue around the timing of it. That's that's. Politics deal with grow up the adults. Well, I asked too much, but that's that's really. This is, is you know: bar took a two week window allowed an interpretation report bacon in the public mind and in the narrative and then released the entire report which lead to people fighting over. You know quibbling over small details or setting the kind of resistance idiots onto where alight, with all manner of of obscure arcane things, too, to prove that this was still a brief for impeachment. That's really what Robert Mahler meant, if you just read it in in in this way, under these sorts of lights, while you know Jupiter

in a sentence or whatever nonsense, those peoples or say so. I think you know you can't go to the base and say were mad about two weeks, see say a bunch of sort of quasi constitutional, stuff and people believe it because people don't know anything about process. The person who I think has most deftly, I will say impressively from a purely political standpoint, played at his Kamel Harris who looked like an mba player up against Highschool player. When you compare her interrogation of bar with Booker's, you know she had this talking point, which was: did you review the underlying evidence? Faithfully asinine Why do we have a four hundred? Ninety four page report? If you're going to have the attorney General Review, all the without another six months, exactly right, but it sounds plausible as a process critique and it clearly took off on the left, and it shows you that she is. She is a pretty canny operator. Look his attorney general of California. Do you think

Come on Harris ever reviewed, the underlying evidence of whatever subordinates investigations that didn't recommend prosecution. No, of course she didn't its. It would be insane to do so, but I think that move politically was clever on her part and it suggested just how hungry the democratic basis for the continued drumbeat of illegitimacy. But that's not gonna, be satisfied by the actual facial frustration, the Democrats, have which is with typing you, Charlie and Count Como Harris got a lot about that exchange, including that the first part where she asked bar if anyone at the White House or the president or anyone associated with him had suggested investigating anyway and there's along pregnant, Paw and she made it out a lot of other people made it out that Barton answer. When actual he did, he said no, no one's asked

she threw out. All these other words implied hinted whatever, and he didn't you didn't answer any of those. I guess greed and want to do it like off off the cuff and just goes to me one: how dishonest law, the coverage is, can same thing with the Charlie Crest exchange rate. Talking about no one goes on on Kay, TV and says when he, when Chris Ass, do you know what they're talking about angry about they all say that bar said no. When he goes on to say, I think it is because they want more material out. They leave their poured out and I actually. I love the way he'd testifies, and there are often times these pauses could actually thinking through like very carefully what what the precise cause in means, if you're taking words at their face value and any ways gives incredibly terse, and I think precise answer, and sometimes a highly gratifying answer like at the end of the Senate. Hearing when I forget which senator was asked him, how can we have your

if your conversation with Barbara Method, not now, I can't why do you need a but yeah, he seemed consumer professional. To me. I think we should be careful not to limit our criticisms of truncated footage to the CUP rich Commoner Harris. Does this dilemma? She did it deliberately during the cavern irons to deliberately allowed him yeah. I ask is that you did it to cover up before the the scandal blew up. She did it when he was when he was just milk attests. Conservative guy, rather than suppose it sexual assault guy who she is

relatively skills in this area she was prosecuted. So she understands the cut and thrust of cross examination, she's also extremely dishonest, and what what she did to bar the clips that her team put out on social media and then fed to the press is dishonesty of somebody pause is and then answers and you cut them off before the answer- your lying, no different than what Katy corrected when she made the documentary about gun control at its no differ frankly to what people do all the time on Youtube when they're trying to make a certain point, she should know better she's a year, a senator, I thought Bart wedded himself, find that the most annoying tendency in our modern politics, I think, is this insistence whenever any body

testifies before Congress that they have committed perjury. This is now there is the response. I would defy anyone to find a major hearing in the last year or two that hasn't immediately yielded a bunch of campaign emails, arguing that the witness committed, perjury perjury mean something It doesn't mean that they didn't say what you wanted them to. It doesn't mean that they gave a different interpretation, Sean than yours. Doesn't mean even that they forgot minor details when drinking from the firehouse perjury mean something concrete. Billboard did not perjure himself the other day, but I cannot escape the feeling that the whole Rod was set up so that Democrats would be eight arise at it, isn't a grape micro aggression,

I cannot help feeling that that this was set up so that the Democrats would be able to say Bill BAR is a hack. He was hand, pigs ass, the language they use he covered for Trump. He sullied the Mulder Report and then, when we asked him about it perjured himself. So then exit question to you on this one. If Bill bar is acid, is trumps attorney, general you'd hoped to see him return as trumps off the radar whisper. Why House, council chief of Staff vice president I'd like to see a White House counsel? I definitely trust him alive. He's been around a long time and I think you know a very trustworthy guy someone. I think I like more than I trust his judgment when I trust trumps type of deceiving the lieutenants billboards ousted. I thank you

there's a nice retirement with a teaching gig at a law school in the deep sea area. Why? Why do you need a man so much reading that you want to inflict these evils on Troika now? I don't think you'll get asked at the correct answer, vice president as mankind on mankind, any pointed out and a column today. We do really well with the terse vice presidents that the left are obsessed with and consider raging a horse. So I am in favour of it. So before I move on, let me tell you a little bit about an hour pleasant, urge everyone to sign up for an hour plus it is yours. to get access to over content, cutting our print magazine, content and exclusive web content. That might be behind our metered pay a wall. I regret to inform you some of our best material now. Is hide our meter pay wall and the only way to get guaranteed access to it is to join tens of

thousands, ok, thousands! Almost twenty thousand, almost twenty thousand other people and sign up for an hour plus it's an almost entirely ad free experience, especially no ads on articles, nothing, obnoxious, tubes, you from your reading pleasure. I get the ability to comment on the web site Non Corner Post, which is the exclusive privilege of our past members. You can also be part of our private facebook group and younger discussion there, which are writers, netters or are potter of. If that's what you about and you get invited to be part of exclusive calls and events, we had a call to he also with figurative Hansen and have one coming up in a couple weeks from now? That is gonna, be a blot buster call mechanism, and I can it give hey, who it is and who are a little bit closer and you get to be part of our meat ups without on a New York we had, one and in DC were to sang out drink beer with our and plus member

is, and will be doing, is some places that are actually on the EAST coast, some time soon so Joe Biden, is in the race, announced on video to tune have minute, video or so, and every single Paul National Paul shown quite a bump. For him A major, truly front. Runner alike separation from the rest of the field, including Bernie Sanders. Who now looks like he's clumped up with, without all the rest of the field was one pull that had him running. Third behind with Warren and CNN pork that, when you got into the internals of it, showed elect ability, as you know, in the eighties, they care about I'm a change Medicare for all, but then you get to sum up this other stuff. That seems to than been such a session identity, variations impeachment, and

not even majority of Democrats care about those. So look that this paints a very distressing picture of a potentially practical minded democratic party. What the hell is going on here, practical minded is a strong word. I mean the argument from binds. Elect ability is a little is a little tenuous. I think I mean look. The guy's run for president twice thought about it to other times the two previous time these flamed out now This time he's clearly in the lead, and he has something that he deftly didn't have. Last time, which is, he is far and away the leader right now among plaque voters who are a major deciding element in the democratic primary and who vote generally aspire

we, the kind of black voters were the most likely to support Biden, sort of working to lower middle and middle class black voters in the south. Those folks vote. First, they vote before most of the kind of urban black vote that voting this again in and other cities that tends to be little more ideologically left, leaning to take away your first. I dont think that we should accept the conventional wisdom. That Biden is the best candidate to be Trump. I dont see a really super coherent argument for that that isn't kind of a mirror, imaging argument that oh Biden appeals to some of the same people that that Trump needed took quoting cool. Wake the blue all. Well guess what sort of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth worn will put some of them off, but YO her debt relief plans might appeal to them too. We don't know, that's that's an untested proposition, here's what we know biting his ITALY

Bernie remains clearly the second. The second place contender, Beethoven's flamed out, it seems you'll, probably have a bounced back this kind. How these things go? You know you flame flame out. You come back flame out, you come back, we don't know what will happen on the debate stage. It is not binding longest setting and we don't know whether or not you can turn his people out early in Iowa, although he has a lane to win in Iowa, probably does Neverland to win the New Hampshire, but definitely right now looks like the the formidable leader in South Carolina Nevada Smith, a question. I think that the most that the optimal strategy for both Bernie and Biden is to focus on each other,

and start everybody else watched him. The Democrats decide these things by proportional representation, all the way down, which means that they don't have the kind of darwinian a front runner protection system that Donald Trump benefited from the republican primary. Where you get winner takes all states like Florida that vastly increases the likelihood of a broker convention which leads to which could lead to genuine for protection for them, so they need to kill all the also Rand's so that by the time people are voting, it's very clearly a choice between bite. So why do you say that a Bernie is clearly number two? I mean an appalling. He continues to have both a more committed base and overall is in second position. I mean, I think that, like Elizabeth, worn is getting some favourable attention from the press right now, she's, maybe sing little movement, but on the whole I don't think she's displaced Bernie from solidly second place position. Was some separation Suzanne? What you think I struck backup things with the announcement video one. The

idea that bind was just sitting around honest, couch, doing nothing and then heard trumps response to Charles Falls. I damn it now. I gotta run for president Thus I posted on this struck by this very cunning cliche. Those common denominator, merkin political rhetoric, but It has surveillance in charge that maybe wouldn't have in the past, because Trump very rarely talks in these arms unless is in front of her a prompter, and then you have cut the laugh serve tearing down in the traditional idea of american betraying the country, as this hell hole, of systemic racism and sexism, and class bias so that this also sets now a little bit differently from Russia fields. Well, yeah I had the same reaction to the video it sort of struck me he was the first candidate of you know. We have now seen twenty Democrats announce the first one to even try to kind of pitch himself as a return to normal see, and I think that's because he has

the claim to it the none of the rest of them have simply because of who he is, and when I saw what, I think is his kind of atrocious campaign logo. It looks like it says, Joe, o J O, the ie is very, not clearly not visible. I don't think so. Let's get it done, but I was struck by the oh, just looked like Obama to me, and I think he so clearly is trying to say. Russia's hit. The reset button, I'm the guy- will go back. It'll be fine, will forget these four years happened. The democratic party is normal, don't look it sort of the fringes, I'm the answer to this end, like Luke Man, and he sort of trying to even pitch himself with someone who can appealed to some of the Trump voters, and I think, unlike Bernie, who does appealed to some of those same working class. People who voted for Trump Biden does alienate as many people in the middle, and so I think he is right to think that he has sort of a path there. But you know us as has been mentioned, he's run. Some very poor campaigns is gasperone, although I guess with Trump now we

to say that's going to sound the overturn windows ship today way or but I think you know he'd Be- deserves a status as front runner, an eye but probably most worried about him. If he were to win the nomination in terms of beating Trump so choose only one assumption about Biden and Peggy Noon and wrote a very strong version of this Jesse's guinea and get us. I stopped by the identity politics left and have all these past votes from units and stances from thirty years. Thrown Adam and is there's no way can with elbow survive that I think the countervailing view will be well allow. This has already been thrown Adam and maybe voters democratic voters are Fisk enough to take more seriously in what he did in the Obama sudden DNA mom

menstruation rather than a position he had thirty years ago? Yeah? I think one of the big questions here is: what does the electorate look like us, an obvious question. but there is a difference between primary electorates in general elections. If, if you're looking at the General Electric, the identity, politics, is that we see on Twitter and within the most vocal elements within the progressive movement It is simply not appealing Paul. After poll shows, as people do not care about the color of skin sexual orientation age in Canada,

it plays in the margins, but that they don't care about this stuff and, in anything like the same way as people in college campuses and in the press and within the new freshmen classic democratic representatives. The question is, though, who is going to be voting in these primaries and who's gonna, be covering these primaries, because the meteor is marinated in a lot of this identity, politics stuff. They know a lot of people who are driving more radical change within the party that affects the questions that candidates get us and it affects how much time is given to insurgents and people who might challenge Biden on those. Those friends, I think that that is the point that was raised earlier about his attitude towards America per SE exposes Bertha

a liability Annan asset in Joe Biden. The asset is that don't tend to do well in american politics as a politician or a public figure? If you criticise America, common cabinet found this out. Eve you Camel America, you tend to prevail if you say, as Martin Luther king did, I am entitled to all of these wonderful american promises, but I'm being denied them. In other words, if you say this country's great, but it's not living up to its promise. People are very, very receptive. If you say this put, this country's terror was flag, is terrible, not standing for its based on genocide and slavery. People tend to switch off, and Biden may have an advantage here in that he is arguing that America is good, but the Donald from

is an aberration and that he is soiling at the same time, if that messages, let's go back to where we were. If that messages, I am a return to normal see. If that message is, let's forget the last four years, I'm not sure how much Candidacy will resonate because America has changed and- and I wonder if Biden doing, that would look a little like Romney during that Americans had shifted in and although they weren't wild about many of Obama's policies, most notably Obamacare, simply saying, let's hit the reverse. Gear didn't do Romney any favours. America did change in two thousand. Sixteen. There are a lot of angry people, and not just on the right, not just trump voters, but also on the left. That explains Bernice Insurgency, and it explains why politically, the party is moved and I think, if Biden,

As look I've been around for ages of America's last fifty years, which risk and then Donald Trump came along and spoiled it he's gonna put himself in a difficult position, because that's actually not how I have a lot of virtues feel so I asked usual have absolutely no idea. What's gonna happen here on beholding that I keep saying that, but I'm trying to thread the needle between America is great. We have these great aspirations. Let's meet them without say everything was good until Donald Trump came along is gonna, be to me the great challenge of his candidacy. Yes, a Charlie you're, more bullish than than some of the rest of us last week and on Biden said they should take a list of interim bow here certainly more Bush than than Michael was her than I was, but I want ask you about that. Appointed Charlie gets too is just. Can you remember examples of successful, Andrews running on restoration as a thief.

It just doesn't seem very just inherently an appealing in America, no matter what party or coming, And I just wonder also about in the history of of Democrats falling in love with Canada, the hot nuth new thing and not very having not very,

having very happy experiences when they they choose the establishment, guire or Gal Carter Harding. There are few. I have to go back and look at people who didn't win, and I think it's worth noting that even the Democrats, maybe don't win general elections with these people. They had a habit of nominating you know, gray, elder statesmen, frostbite, liberals had kinds who that of candidate specially now buttons weird cause. Those people generally have impeccable ivy league credentials. In course, Biden. Doesn't he so Syracusan University dollar graduate so no two different constituency that he would appeal to than say some of the more blue blooded types that denominated in the past boy? I I think that the truism the Democrats fallen, love there's something to the fact that Democrats, when the general election, when they nominate younger candidates, knave lose it when they nominate these sort of

gray eminences, but that goes to bind core proposition, is Canada, which is that he can't win and and that's what he asked most fiercely guard in this- this democratic primary so such as a matter of general election, Poles or Ursa, just just its performance on the stump. I think you know if he looks if he looks weakened debates if he steps on himself a lot. If he doesn't seem to know his right hand from his left, then that will cause concern that he's not gonna fire people up enough. I thieves poor attendance at events that could hurt him and look everybody the democratic field knows now that the nomination runs through Joe Biden? There wasn't a forty eight hour flame out. He didn't fall flat. He has a base of sport that base of sport. As we said earlier is mainly among black voters, who are the stalwarts, the southern states in the early there

state loads around March. First, so yeah he's gonna lotta people conformities can have to be sure footed if he sure footed. I think he can. He can steamroller way. The nomination, if he isn't that I think he could still fall apart, but every He's gonna pick away. I'm so truly s a question to you. If you had to choose from two entirely Arbitrary categories thrown out by me, would you say: At this moment, the Joe Biden is a placeholder or the one Democrats have been waiting for. I, I think, He's at the moment, the one the Democrats have been waiting for, and they may decide prior to voting. That he's not has Africa deft cop out than I think he's the one Democrats have been waiting for it, but not the best. They could do he's the best available option.

Judicious Luke, I think, he'll flame out. I do I do I just like. I can't get past the fact that he's done this before and that everybody knows that they ve got a bitter, the hell out of him and he's just, I don't think, he's a good beer, but I still, I still think, look I'm now. This is my heart going against my head. My head says he's got enough, but I, like. My gut tells me that he's gonna step on something here. I say placeholder like with now with a huge dollop of hope, hopefulness throne, there. I do think you would be pretty good general. She cannot at least- and I mean no one- really knows anything about elect ability. I mean us one thing we ve learned at last decade, but at least at this juncture on paper think, he'd be really strong match up against Trump and would speak to the democratic

already being more reasonable than we been led to believe overlaps tears by some of its most prominent two voices, but sir. I just have a hard time. Believing still is going to leave this thing from pillar to post and they're gonna come Adam and copper people are going to rise up, and I already by this loophole As having conversation with a porter front, I think there's something to this. I think Corey Booker might be an under valued asset at the moment, just because he is a trading one cent, so I mean that it is serious about earth. Some things to happen. Other people fall away, but he's got this faith rap, he's

he's not totally around on the left and he's he's an african American and that's that's a vulnerability buttons could have as who can take that core away from an inquiry sucks. I don't think there's anything there. I think Kamel Harris is a much bigger threat to Biden with the african american vote. You know she's a graduate of each of an hp, see you she's very well networked with IE in black returning sorority networks that decide a lot of make a lot of organizing decisions and black backbone them in places South Carolina, the Island Koreas, Cory's structured, so Charlie, another big story from earth this week, the revolt and as well as that, shamefully alot of the media law for time calling a coup. when this was the result of a democratic forces against a hideously authoritarian.

government, and it looks as though, at least for now that it's flamed out and it might have been premature and just ass. I had this this moment of recognition. It gave me slightly sick feeling in the stomach when Compare with saying that said that they'd, they madeira was on the plane on the tarmac is ready to go, and I don't think Pompiers being deceptive. about this, but just reminded me of at the outset of the Iraq war when with Dick Cheney was so certain we had killed Saddam Hussein and air strikes. We hadn't intelligence, Saint saying as much but there's a huge element of wishful thinking and there we and we never know as much as we think we do and it looks as though this that this push was based on a intelligence or view that the venezuelan military top Bachelor

and they re a flip when evidently they weren't, I think, there's always going to be some wishful thinking in these contexts, Americans have a nation that was founded. In revolution, and there was wishful thinking right from the beginning. Wants them and revolution had been completed. Thomas Jefferson, who was not a stupid man, thought that it could be easily. Application in France and disastrously overestimated. How successful that insurrection would prove to be Americans have this within their bloodstream? I think, and it is, it is terrible there, of course, Americans who don't have it in their blood. Evidently alien Omar seems not to want Madeira gone and

Alexandria. Abkhazia Cortez has made a career. Thus far of bucking leadership is nervous of taking a position either way that she's not telling report is that she has to wait to find out what her caucus things I just saw your flourish jollier Mccormick, telling Orange comical. Absolutely this is this. Is it classic example of how not to destroy a country with bad ideas. Venezuela was a prosperous place and then they thought you know that idea that has failed every single time. You ever tried it and lead to misery and repression and international condemnation. Let's do it and for a few is all of the usual suspects and all of the useful idiots jumped on board and at this time it's really work and now

we are where we are at. It is an advertisement for capitalism is an advertisement for limited constitutional govern is an advertisement for the second amendment. even Msf So we see the other day was acknowledging that. One of the reasons that the nascent and now probably crushed uprising was on able to really pack a punch was that all of the guns had been taken away from those who might rebound.

and given to the government or to friends of the government and most embassy didn't follow. The thought throat was to its logical conclusion that there is any body in the United States government, who is anything other than appalled by Madeira. I think, is a disgrace that can, of course, be legitimate disagreements as to what we should do about this. To what extent America should get involved. What american politicians and government figures should say how willing we are to get into a proxy war with Russia, whether we have a vested interest in pushing back against cuban interference. Those are all the gentlemen questions.

They should not be outside of the realm of politics, but as a reflexive question to see american politicians humming and hurrying and equivocating on this question, I think really is gross. Unfortunately, one of the big problems once you go down the road to Venezuela has gone down as it is very difficult to get yourself out of it and they are probably now in a position in which desperately stuck there probably stop throw up. So I I watch it with with a heavy heart, but I think that if you don't want to become Venezuela other countries, other people, you know what to do so. Then you just it amazing that some people considered close question or think, as Omar said, that this is

and in some way our responsibility that Venezuela has had a government that has been predatory and trash the plates and is a dictatorship, and why? Why would we did you two to create that? I know its absolute insane to serious. I mean this is just the latest in a long string of truly reprehensible comments. Remarks I am not terribly surprised by it, but still very disappointing to see an end nest, rice and gross, but I think also at the same time it sort of to be expected Are we not that particular comment, but to see Democrats divided on the question? There are a number of them prominent once the ones who get the most attention in their party right now, who call themselves socialists and we ve seen in venezuela- is just the latest example of socialism, not working and of socialism actually reading two terrible things and people starving and in fighting in the streets and government turning against people, and so if you're gonna sit

and and say that will actually now it would be good for America, one of our major parties becomes a democratic Socialist Party and hey one of our front runners for the nominees the presidency is a socialist and has been for decades. This is where our country needs to go to their probably ask anything while doll, the bread lines over there. You know that's what I really must not talk about that or even somehow what we did. We cause that problem, because they're saying that's where we should go, but they also have to be saying if we did, it wouldn't look like that, and there is absolutely no historical case to be made for that, and so I think Democrats in a bind weather haven't a train either not talk about it or talk about it in a way that you know makes it seem as if that's not what would happen if we had a Bernie Sanders presidency in Alexandria, Cassio Cortez with speaker of the house. So Luke honour what he has been working for any latin american uprisings on Europe,

at ground near lustrous career. Yet, but if you are inviting the opposition forces, what would you be torn the Madonna in Venezuela yeah, we'll full disclosure? I was briefly a classmate with one of the leaders of the venezuelan opposition, who is, I believe, still under house arrest, but we're not particular friendlier anything. I do not advise any venezuelan opposition leaders. I I think that the new strategy for venezuelan opposition leaders today is the same as it was when Enrique Company lace lost the last presidential election to Madeira, which is bring your people in the street, but do not let them get killed on mass. The system that China has created, and that has survived him for six years, has worked because its predicated around a fairly straightforward and reasonably effect,

of inner locking process of patronage, distribution and repression. Charlie is right to point of confiscation of guns as a major inflection point in Venezuela and recent venezuelan history, simply because when Maduro beat Caprice last time and again, a highly contested election at that point, that was the last time prior to this one, when there was a real possibility of mass violence, and it was the risk of thing spiralling out of control, thanks to sort of broad based street violence that motivated and woke up, I think Maduro and his regime to the need to confiscate weapons from the public, because that way

control. They have, however, continue to maintain their patronage system. They no longer use pet of Asia, which is the state oil company, as the chief revenue driver of that they are much more at an increasingly a beggar state dependent on russian and chinese largesse. In order to preserve this, to preserve as patronage network that is not a long term winning hand, and so, if you are the venezuelan opposition, your challenges to organise and to survive Leopold, Lopez is no longer in prison. That's a big move in the right direction for it for them, and I think that you know do not do not make this aid sort of final showdown. Nobody actually wins. The battle of the Alamo time trending towards the venezuelan opposition and against job as well against trivial and, frankly, I think for both Americans and well in opposition. We are best served with prudent patients, so. This was going to ask you: do you think that

is really on its last legs. His cause, these key the hideous governments, viper very, very long time to be seen, but this just feels much more volatile and fragile than than other situations it. It does is to some extent. I think this is the first. I've ever seen other leading factional elements within them. swollen regime openly, considering the possibility that their their interests are better served by up ending the status quo, as opposed to maintaining the status quo That's part of why I get so frustrated when I see certain elements in american politics using MAX most rhetoric and threatening these people insane. What do you think's going to happen to you when, when you do, your shift goes out, you're all going to die, because that reinforces their desire to maintain the status quo rather than reallocated, we didn't learn anything from a rock. I think we at least learn that we can't completely strip out the old order when America

supported back regime change or something like that takes place, and so there will be two of these two elements in whatever the successor government is whether the United States likes it or not, and We are better served convincing those people that their interests can be served in the long term by getting rid of Maduro. Rather than standing behind him under the theory that well, they either all Hank separately where they hang together, the truly execution to you percentage chance that the United States uses military force and Venezuela, one percent and fifteen percent Luke Thompson. I mean, I hope at one percent, but there are some people who are really bring for it, and so I'll say I'll, say you know given given those folks I'll say twenty five percent, but I hope it's. I hope it's one

a twenty percent, I think it's unlikely, I think, would happens. You're gonna cut Crab Walker our way into it, and I hope it doesn't happen so that let's hit few other things Zan you went to a south band and experience I'm sure the glories of mayor pizza, governance there. Oh I did. It is always good to go back to that end. Some of my alma mater, and I was there this past weekend- a crisis, pregnancy centre, founded in town, was getting in a word from a catholic group on campus, and I wanted to write about because Mayor PETE last year vetoed a new location of this crisis, pregnancy centre and it caused a big Hobbs. I thought it was a good chance that gonna bring that back into the news. Now the whole nation knows the glories of mayor Peat, and in fact I was air wearing you know sprinklers? As it was April, twenty seventh and got caught in a snow? storm while wearing a Sondra, Jean Jack, and so I hope everyone will read the peace that I wrote. Well earned

so Charlie. You read California's Great America. I was listening to this programme. Send my dogs, an Englishman? No, I Slowly, taking off my very long bucket list of amusement parks- and I haven't been to but knew about as a kid growing up- England, and on Sunday I got to visit. California is great America, which is in Santa Clara. It does not disappoint He was the most american day. I went to the Yankees game, its article part, formerly eighty anti back, and then I left the Yankees game and rushed to California is great american right all the relevant actors.

Had a burrito sir I've had a more american day then that I would defy them to your mommy Luke. You been reading fly girls. I have because I I'm not an idiot. I do what my mother tells me to do, and she told me I should read this book. It's it's Biographia sort of a history of five women, including Amelia S, heart and their contributions to early aviation, is a lot of daring. There's some tragedy. Others win walking. It's very three interesting, exciting in a sort of remind you just how crazy The early aviators worker gettin these essentially flying bicycles and launch themselves into the air, so it happened Amelia your heart, is it just? She got lost in Russia, I honestly don't know, but I think he I think they just read out a few legitimacy. so I am a big fan of chick cheerful, a breakfast which I didn't realize until a couple weeks ago, when I was doing

video with Sarah. Should he here in the morning I, as can be about shook fillet, and I needed a prop sir. I went there and has at ten in the morning serves only breakfast and I got the chicken egg and cheese bagel. and the bagel- is not a big old by New York or think any standards is really kind of a bun, but as in credit, a good and a hash browns are addictive. So if you have not yet avail yourself a check breakfast. You really should and I've been waiting for the day When I would get to the environs the violence of the office here soon enough to be illegal chip fillet before actually

do something and ripe for this? Podcast was was that day and it did not disappoint so that let's go tour. Editors picks Zan was your pick. My pick his John Mccormick Energy is an issue of the print magazine covering Comma Harris's campaign went out to Iowa to cover her, and I thought it was really interesting, because I have always had this hunch that she would be one of the more formidable candidates but she's not a front runner, and I think he does a good job laying out why that isn't in kind of makes a case that she stole as one of her or perhaps the strongest alternate If too, to button and Bernie Charley was your pic utterly forgotten, my really cause like You ve not had one Chris early years with alacrity. I think this whole podcast, you ve all a fact that there were not cleaners up and clearness of free choice. You need

clean. This city were going to back. Who runs this by Sarah should here he asked question again, so I went out with a united voice that everyone knows what happened Charlie. How just drag this? We are serious about asking. just say it, and then I'm gonna, be so Chris Patten and Sarah connected you get attempted coup over this evidence. The throat getting enters big. For a few more shameful, you forgot, you bought hug, you forget, evolves, peace, anti! It is a matter of his eyes reminisce about rollercoaster. I was the very tight, mostly my editors, pick

is by evolved on capitalism can't land. This is to equip reading. time today. This is not an out. Take this alive, podcast. I think it is a deal right if we put this in, as is we also putting your old quip reads known out. Now you gone thermonuclear again. Tell people that my quit raids, they're, all per they actually it s draft. At my address. This big is by evolve in its from the magazine- called the free market tradition and give our views that capitalism is essentially built into human nature, and we should argue from that perspective, not just that it works.

And what's your pic, I say this as quickly as humanly possible. No Maya, my editors pic is a nice piece on the website from yesterday, I think by jury Hendricks on Teddy Roosevelt and how he handled be. Nineteen o three venezuelan debt crisis. As an example of speaking softly would carry a big stick, especially when it comes to Europeans interfering in hemispheric issues So my pig is the entirety of the new issue of NASH Review, which is a defence of markets and part of a historic. I believe- and ethics ever happened before in the history this fine magazine, historic twin issue, a special issue, the first number devoted spending money its, and the next issue will be devoted to make any argument against socialism. These are things that we thought were a well established for. Very

on time, but were not as well established as we hoped sword trying to go back and remind people of important turn truths about our system of government and economics, and with that, that's it for us, so we can they not up either charlie- that's it for us even listening to national park. Cast this podcast. Sorry totally lost my train of thought, I enjoyed destroy so now, I do actually is assured destruction. This will stand as well. For us, I just what choice Let me now I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna love and then that's it I have been listening and actually apart, guessing Reebok S, retransmission or account of this game without express written permission of national amazing strictly for Bidden. Thank Charlie thank Zan. Thank you, Luke thanks everyone for listening.

we are the editors and we'll see you and Unread acted addition next